I saw this article in Bigblueview.
The Giants (IMHO) need to keep both a blocking TE and a Fullback in the 53 man roster. The Giants had Pascoe, Hedgecock or Hynoski when we were winning championships. Ellison without a Fullback is not enough. They need to re-introduce the "hammer" into the Giants offense.
Power football and the West Coast Offense are not mutually exclusive.
Your thoughts.
Giants Off-season - (
New Window )
On offense, it's not the line. It's Manning. If he rebounds, we're good.
I get some people's concern about the O-line. But I see it being addressed. Maybe not with all-pros of proven guys. But there have been moves made. There are some solid pieces. There's potential. And I believe however it shakes out, the O-line will be improved from last year.
C-minus, whatever. Maybe that's right, maybe it's not.
But if we have an A receiving corps, if our QB is a B, if our RBs are a B, and our defense is still an A? We might be pretty damn good, even with a C-minus O-line.
I just don't think we're finished yet.
On offense, it's not the line. It's Manning. If he rebounds, we're good.
Eric, I have a great feeling about Tomlinson. He's so strong and athletic. I think he could be a force on the interior. Hopefully his knees hold up.
He blocked me when I pointed out those two were in the top 10 all time.
I still maintain that the Giants' offensive woes in 2016 were more a product of the ineptitude of their skill players and less a product of an inept offensive line or a declining Eli. In that regard, the Giants did an excellent job addressing that.
Offense we needed help at WR, TE, RB and OL. We signed the best WR we could afford, got the best blocking TE on the market and drafted an uber athlete that can play in line/in the slot.
RB we addressed in the draft and we believe that we will grow from within (Perkins). Blount would've been nice.
OL we didn't do much. But we couldn't. There wasn't much out there. Weak FA class and the weakest draft class in 10+ years. We have to hope that Flowers/Pugh/Richburg become dominant OL and Fluker/Jerry/Hart fill in on the right side.
I don't think there was much more we could've done. I thought we overall improved and we already had a lot of room to grow from within.
He's in a great situation with all the talent around him on the line, he doesn't really have to shine right away. And he gets to learn from one of the best.
On offense, it's not the line. It's Manning. If he rebounds, we're good.
1. Will Flowers finally get it?
2. Can Fluker finally reach his potential, or is he a dud?
3. Will Weston rebound? Was he really hurt or did his performance drop off?
4. Will any of the late round or UDFAs pickups surprise us?
5. Can Pugh play 16 games?
6. Can Hart be a reliable starter or is he destine to be a career backup?
7. Will the team be stuck once again playing Mr. Milk Toast (John Jerry) at LG?
If Eli is to rebound he has to stay on his feet, and there are still a lot of questions regarding this OL
With each passing year, the play of the QB decides things more and more on offense.
I expected a huge year from Eli in 2016. He regressed a bit.
It's been his trademark... up one year, down the next. It sucks, but it is what it is.
Oh, puh-leeze. Hankins was a good player, but he was hardly a difference-maker, and he certainly wasn't irreplaceable.
With each passing year, the play of the QB decides things more and more on offense.
I expected a huge year from Eli in 2016. He regressed a bit.
It's been his trademark... up one year, down the next. It sucks, but it is what it is.
The O-Line stunk, the running game was virtually non-existent, Cruz was cooked, the TEs blew, Shepard was underwhelming, and OBJ came up small when it was imperative that he come up big, but, yeah...it's all about Eli's regression.
But they also added Ellison, one of (if not thee) top blocking TE's in the NFL, and Fluker (former first round and top 10 pick), etc., the offense has been improved.
Add in a solid draft with yet another offensive weapon in a freak speed receiving TE and the off season was a solid "A"
With each passing year, the play of the QB decides things more and more on offense.
I expected a huge year from Eli in 2016. He regressed a bit.
It's been his trademark... up one year, down the next. It sucks, but it is what it is.
On offense, it's not the line. It's Manning. If he rebounds, we're good.
Eric, you really see the issue as Manning, not the line?
My take has been the line sucks, limiting the Giants playbook to 3 step drops, & thus making it very hard for any QB to succeed or fairly evaluate.
His loss isn't going to be one I think will make a huge difference. As long as Snacks is there they will be fine. I was impressed with how well Robert Thomas looked in brief time. Bromley needs a good pre-season and camp. Tomlinson -- all he needs is to come in and plug the run. That's not a lot to ask and I think he can handle it.
How exactly have the Skins gotten better? Or Dallas for that matter? I am not saying those teams won't be problems for us but they aren't better on paper. Not by a long shot.
How is that worse that the Cowboys who lost 6 starters and signed Nolan Carroll and Terrance Williams.
He was arguably the league MVP that year.
As Klaatu says above, we had lots of issues on offense (no TE or RB was huge too). Cruz was toast as he points out.
But this was the third year in the WCO system for Manning and I expected better. There were times he just played scared. Now many will say that is because he didn't trust the OL (and he probably didn't). But he's got to rise above that.
You factor in a terrible bookend OT's, Richburg who regressed, non-existence at TE (Tye is okay but that's about it), a #2 TE who is toast and probably going to be out of the league soon enough, and a slot guy who played well but the coach never used him any other way. It was a very simplified offense because of it. Eli did rush some throws and make a few careless balls but the offense was in a rut because they never had anything on the line (so rushing was also affected; i.e. Jennings too was not effective), at TE, or someone to truly take anything off Beckham or that dreaded Cover 2.
Quote:
My biggest worry is the short-term impact of losing our veteran defensive tackle inside. If Tomlinson or Bromley or Thomas can handle the position, we'll be OK on defense.
Oh, puh-leeze. Hankins was a good player, but he was hardly a difference-maker, and he certainly wasn't irreplaceable.
Philly improved. They actually have pro WRs now. But it still comes down to whether Wentz is the real deal. Winning 7 games with little to no pressure was nice. Go win more games in 2017 then I will start to believe in the legend of Carson Wentz.
Skins are ok but seem to have a ceiling and what are they doing at QB...who knows. Who knows if the incumbent QB is even the answer. They are treading water.
The most dangerous and well rounded team in the east is the Giants. Doesn't mean shit in May but any objective take would say that the team with the highest ceiling is NYG.
Eric said it was about Eli. If that's our biggest problem we will be fine. HE was ok last year with one weapon and an bad running game. Think about that for a second.
The Giants have found a pretty reliable system when it comes to DT and its helping them free up cash to use on other positions. Compounding that is how effective snacks is that even putting a mediocre DT next to him should net success.
Eli's supporting cast in 2016 couldn't hold a candle to the ones from 2011.
Eli wasn't carrying anything last year because there was nothing to carry. I keep saying it, but a lot of you folks were blinded by a fake story offense from 2014-2015. That offense had little to no staying power other than Beckham. It finally regressed last year and now we all want to put the blame on McAdoo or Eli. Blame the players. They weren't any good. 2016 was a building block year for the offense. IT wasn't fools gold like 2015.
Quote:
In comment 13475009 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
My biggest worry is the short-term impact of losing our veteran defensive tackle inside. If Tomlinson or Bromley or Thomas can handle the position, we'll be OK on defense.
Oh, puh-leeze. Hankins was a good player, but he was hardly a difference-maker, and he certainly wasn't irreplaceable.
My issue with losing Hank, wasn't because of the talent we lost (as Eric mentioned he is replaceable), it was more that we had to spend a second round pick to stay even to where we were. Had they signed Hank, that second round pick could have been used to improve the team elsewhere (e.g., LB or OL).
That's the whole nature of the business though. You can't keep everyone. You have to choose where to let go if you don't think a guy is worth money and replace him with cost controlled players. What do you think the Pats do. You see them get rid of guys like Jamie Collins, their starting G in the middle of the season, vince Wilfork. They do the same thing with guys they know can be replaced in the draft for a cost controlled contract.
Does Eli need a run game to be effective? If you want to use PA it does matter. What upper echelon QB doesn't have help? Big Ben gets the best RB and one of the best WR's in the league but Eli's the who gets help from OBJ. That type of perception is why most pundits are goofs.
[quote] Giants had a pretty bad offseason.. [/quote
The off-season would have been a complete disaster if the Giants doled out 50 million for a garbage injured OT or the same for a solid guard. It would have been bad if they didn't sign Ellison as well.
You can't force the issue in FA. You take what is given and move on.
My biggest worry is the short-term impact of losing our veteran defensive tackle inside. If Tomlinson or Bromley or Thomas can handle the position, we'll be OK on defense.
On offense, it's not the line. It's Manning. If he rebounds, we're good.
It wasn't Eli.....it was his lack of options.....outside of OBj what did he have? Shepard played well, but he had huge drops....Cruz was a shell of what he was, while also playing out of position.....We lost Vereen early in the season....Jennings fell off a cliff....and while the OL wasn't stellar, it had it's moments.....the main problem, was the TE's and WR's in the running game.....our TE's whiffed on so many blocks, that the defense was in the backfield before the line could even get going....asking Cruz to block downfield was a joke....not having a blocking FB, was a head scratcher on the front office's part....as Klaatu has mentioned, maybe Smith is the answer....
On third down, with few options, Eli was not only predictable, but the defense just unloaded on him and did not give him the time.....
With a double TE set of Engram and Ellison, and third and short yardage, Eli's options will be off the chart....the defense will have to cover people this year.....the option to run OR pass, will be there....this offense will score, even with this line....
As for the DT position.....Hardly any team has 4 stellar defensive linemen.....we have 3.....Eric you could play and be adequate....instead, we have three guys who will beat you out of that job.....one of them will fill in more than adequately, for Hankins.....
The Giants have found a pretty reliable system when it comes to DT and its helping them free up cash to use on other positions. Compounding that is how effective snacks is that even putting a mediocre DT next to him should net success.
Exactly. Plus, when you get a guy like Tomlinson, tremendous upside, he could be better than Hank every was after one year on a much much cheaper price over 4 years. Hank was not a world-beater. Solid, but replaceable.
Sort of. What isn't a myth is that Eli needs a good D to succeed. Give Eli a decent to good D and the Giants are competitive or better every single season.
A running game doesn't hurt. From 05-2010 the Giants had a good to great running game. How many of those teams won less than eight games? None. How many won more than eight? Four.
and combined with Irving and some of last years picks,that Dallas d-line isn't looking half bad.They can probably ship Randy Gregory to Amsterdam if they want
5 years ago, he had one of the best deep balls in the game. I just didn't see that last year when he did throw deep. Just as the OL, he needs to step it up a bit as well.
If the 2014 and 2015 offenses didn't fool any of us and instead scored 300 pts each year we would all be saying the 2016 offense took nice baby steps towards consistency. Add in the players added this off-season and we'd be giddy. Instead I see a lot of people blaming McAdoo and Eli for last year's struggling offense. The same McAdoo that turned the Giants offense around in 2014-15 and the same QB many here have as a HOF lock.
Newhouse is starting in Oakland. Where's Victor Cruz? Where is Jennings? Where is Donnell? Where will Tye be in three months?
The TEs, WRs and RBs last year were as bad a collection of NYG players we have ever seen since the mid 90s, save for BEckham. That's a fact. Look it up if you don't believe me. They still won 11 games and scored points when they had to. Now they have added THREE legit talents to replace the dead weight. And that's not even counting on maturation from Shepard, Flowers and better health from Pugh and Richburg.
The offense is dramatically improved. It needed to be.
Brandon Marshall availability and acquiring at reasonable $$$$....had me at hello!
Losing Hankins was only options vs paying 10million per year....which he is not worth it. DT can be an upgrade for all we know....Hankins missed how many games?
The Giants didn't miss a beat.
Washington lost some serious WR talent....had a great draft.
Improve more......debatable
Eagles....improved more.....i would agree....as didn't lose much and general had good additions. I would think Wentz 2nd year will tell us more about their future the anything else.
Dallas lost their entire backfield???? No way did they get better.....at least not this year depending on so many rookies.
Giants is team to beat imho.
1. OJB has inflated Eli's numbers for 3 years now. Makes his stats look like like he's playing better than he is. In reality Eli has been very mediocre for large stretches of his career.
2. He's 36 the odds are he will get worse not better AND become more injury prone because of age.
3. The WCO is designed to minimize the OL so blaming them totally for the offensive ineptitude is off base. I will buy the argument about Cruz, the TEs and Vereen's absence.
It's all about the QB and whether Eli can still play top level football is a VERY good question (which explains why they drafted a QB this year and didn't wait until next year)
and combined with Irving and some of last years picks,that Dallas d-line isn't looking half bad.They can probably ship Randy Gregory to Amsterdam if they want
Only the Eagles DL worries me.
Redskins also Chris Baker. Their DB's are also not good.
Dallas got Taco but he's not a threat so much rushing the passer. Lawrence is a good DE but he's just one. They lost McClain at DT. They also lost many DB's from last year and are thin at those spots.
Currently, their starters and depth is
CB 1 Anthony Brown (rookies and Leon McFadden as depth
CB 2 Nolan Carroll (Orlando Scandrick is nickel)
FS Byron Jones (5th round rookie behind him)
SS battle between Jeff Heath and Robert Blanton (exicte)
Man, just stop. Jake Ballard averaged 15.9 ypc in 2011. He was light-years better than Tye or Donnell (or even both put together). 38 catches for 604 yards and 4 TDs when he was, at best, the 4th option. And he may not have been Howard Cross 2.0, but he was a good blocker, which is something that neither Tye or Donnell are.
You don't look at the WRs as individuals. You look at them as a unit, and Nicks, Cruz (the 2011 version), and Manningham were much better than OBJ, Cruz (the 2016 version), and Shepard. They complemented each other very well and came up big when the money was on the line.