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NFT: Knicks Chat: Knicks to workout DSJ

DanMetroMan : 5/19/2017 7:46 am
-Knicks have scheduled him to schedule a workout

-Berman with a piece on Monk. Execs love his shooting, question his ability to play 2 at his size (linked below)
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RE: i have no problem with him being angry  
DanMetroMan : 5/19/2017 3:52 pm : link
In comment 13476649 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
but be constructive about it, talk to phil and hornacek, speak your damn mind and tell them what you think can help the team...

you wany melo to stay, tell phil why you think he should..

i have no problem being angry but do something about it


If his issue were Phil looking to trade Melo I'd be "more" in your camp but the issue according to Woj (which honestly seems far more logical) is that he didn't like the way it was handled (in particular the comments that were viewed as critical of Melo).

I've never seen any indication that KP is a dumbass. He knows how old Melo is and where the roster stands.
RE: nyg16  
nygiants16 : 5/19/2017 3:52 pm : link
In comment 13476646 Deej said:
Quote:
maybe Im misremembering, but arent you the guy who complains a lot about KP's IQ and defense?


yes i think he does a lot of dumb things on the court that went unnoticed because melo and rose were on the team and took the brunt of everything..

and i will be completely honest i am not sold yet on kp being a superstar player that can carry a team, i dont see it yet, obviously he is very young still
There isn't a player in this draft I'd take overKP  
giantsfan44ab : 5/19/2017 3:55 pm : link
Maybe Fultz is in the discussion? Even if it's a debate, I'd rather take the one that's shown it on an NBA court .
The culture  
Jon in NYC : 5/19/2017 3:55 pm : link
of the team is shitty. It's Melo vs Phil, and Melo is a good teammate, so they're on Melo's side. I think we'll see things change once Melo leaves.
RE: RE: nyg16  
DanMetroMan : 5/19/2017 3:56 pm : link
In comment 13476651 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13476646 Deej said:


Quote:


maybe Im misremembering, but arent you the guy who complains a lot about KP's IQ and defense?



yes i think he does a lot of dumb things on the court that went unnoticed because melo and rose were on the team and took the brunt of everything..

and i will be completely honest i am not sold yet on kp being a superstar player that can carry a team, i dont see it yet, obviously he is very young still


Don't you think it's within the realm of possibility that the fact the guy in charge of the defense is a Phil lackey, with 0 history of being some sort of defensive mind or developing players is... in charge of the defense and... developing KP might be a bigger issue? Hornacek flat out tried adding a defensive coach before the season , he "acknowledged" the need. Phil ignored it (his right) but then decided... Rambis would be the best decision? I think a great move would be bringing in a brand new assistant to work with KP/defense. The way teams used to bring in Patrick to work with bigs. Even 2 different guys, 1 for KP/Willy and 1 defensive guru.
dan  
nygiants16 : 5/19/2017 4:01 pm : link
i get why kp is mad, i dont like the way he went about it...

i have no issue with him being mad
RE: i have no problem with him being angry  
Greg from LI : 5/19/2017 4:01 pm : link
In comment 13476649 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
but be constructive about it, talk to phil and hornacek, speak your damn mind and tell them what you think can help the team...

you wany melo to stay, tell phil why you think he should..

i have no problem being angry but do something about it


How do you know he hasn't done those things, or at least tried to do those things, over the course of the season and been ignored?
RE: RE: i have no problem with him being angry  
nygiants16 : 5/19/2017 4:04 pm : link
In comment 13476661 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13476649 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


but be constructive about it, talk to phil and hornacek, speak your damn mind and tell them what you think can help the team...

you wany melo to stay, tell phil why you think he should..

i have no problem being angry but do something about it



How do you know he hasn't done those things, or at least tried to do those things, over the course of the season and been ignored?


then we are having a different conversation
RE: RE: RE: nyg16  
EricNY33 : 5/19/2017 4:05 pm : link
In comment 13476658 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:



Don't you think it's within the realm of possibility that the fact the guy in charge of the defense is a Phil lackey, with 0 history of being some sort of defensive mind or developing players is... in charge of the defense and... developing KP might be a bigger issue? Hornacek flat out tried adding a defensive coach before the season , he "acknowledged" the need. Phil ignored it (his right) but then decided... Rambis would be the best decision? I think a great move would be bringing in a brand new assistant to work with KP/defense. The way teams used to bring in Patrick to work with bigs. Even 2 different guys, 1 for KP/Willy and 1 defensive guru.


Maybe we can bring in Ewing to coach defense! Oh wait....
RE: RE: nyg16  
Deej : 5/19/2017 4:07 pm : link
In comment 13476651 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13476646 Deej said:


Quote:


maybe Im misremembering, but arent you the guy who complains a lot about KP's IQ and defense?



yes i think he does a lot of dumb things on the court that went unnoticed because melo and rose were on the team and took the brunt of everything..

and i will be completely honest i am not sold yet on kp being a superstar player that can carry a team, i dont see it yet, obviously he is very young still


Im not assailing you for the opinion. Entirely possible that Im too high on KP. I think he's got an amazing skillset and I generally like his attitude. Fantastically hard worker and cares about winning. So I view his protest through that lens. And also the lens that he's not being a baby because all the shit in that Woj piece is right as far as we can tell:

1. The coaching seemed pretty horrid, especially on D. There was no plan for the pick and roll. No plan! It's the most successful play in basketball history, and every fucking time we send our PG chasing thru the screen, when he couldnt do it.

2. The lockerroom was shitty. Rose seems like a shitty guy. You heard Lee's complaints seep out. You didnt hear any of the good talk about camaraderie from Wally and the PBP team (a telling omission).

3. Phil is a mega dick who has taken a massive run at Melo to try to get out of Melo's NTC.

4. Dolan is a mega dick.

So I just dont think it is so wrong that KP is fed up.
Seemed  
DanMetroMan : 5/19/2017 4:12 pm : link
to me like KP/Willy and the "scrub squad" were all close. That Melo has a good relationship with KP and that when Noah was healthy and "present" he was a positive influence. Otherwise it seemed like a rudderless ship.
deej i have no issue with him being fed up  
nygiants16 : 5/19/2017 4:14 pm : link
and if he has tried to speak up and it went on deaf ears thwn my opinion changes...

i jjst wish he sat down with phil and hornacek bwfore he left and not ignore hornaceks text messages...

i have no problem playing for latvia either...
I agree that KP may be a future all star  
Pep22 : 5/19/2017 4:14 pm : link
but my main issue w/ the NYK is basically EVERYTHING !

They lack talent, they lack work ethic, they lack a decent IQ for their job responsibilities, they get headlines for the wrong reasons -- and all of those comments are applicable to both players and the front office and every thing in between. So, when they finally get a player like KP to develop, he gets to swim in a pool of poison. There isn't a more poorly run team in sports including the Browns.



.  
DanMetroMan : 5/19/2017 5:12 pm : link
Steve Popper‏Verified account @StevePopper 4s5 seconds ago
More
So MyTopSportsbooks has odds on draft picks out - and has this for Knicks:
Frank Ntilikina: 4/5
Malik Monk: 9/2
Donovan Mitchell: 12/1
Knicks  
DanMetroMan : 5/19/2017 5:15 pm : link
apparently were interested in this accused sex offender last year
Link - ( New Window )
What could we get from the Wizards for Melo?  
Anakim : 5/19/2017 5:47 pm : link
Melo would be going home for real and I assume he'd be interested since they're a playoff team. Plus, who knows if they want to bring back Beal for the money that he wants.


Oubre and a first rounder for Melo? Is that fair?
I  
DanMetroMan : 5/19/2017 6:08 pm : link
Think you mean Porter. Beal signed an extension
RE: .  
TyreeHelmet : 5/19/2017 6:19 pm : link
In comment 13476574 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Woj claims KP is still EXTREMELY unhappy with the Knicks. Says the coaching has been terrible, including coaching him up, says the locker room has been terrible, doesn't like the way Phil airs players out and that he spoke to other "superstars" who basically said the stuff they say happens on their teams is not what he's experienced with the Knicks. Said he has no plans in connecting with the Knicks in any way before training camp.


Where was this? In an article?

KP isn't some naive idiot. His brothers played professional and Andy Miller is one of the more powerful agents in the League. He's sending a purposeful and impactful public message. Hopefully Phil learns from his mistakes or Dolan makes him.
RE: I  
nygiants16 : 5/19/2017 6:27 pm : link
In comment 13476769 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Think you mean Porter. Beal signed an extension


i wouldnt be surprised if they let porter walk and just start oubre
I have a feeling that Smith will shoot up the board once teams get to  
Jim in Hoboken : 5/19/2017 6:47 pm : link
examine his knee and see the full return of his athleticism.

I also love Donovan Mitchell and like the Wade comparison but he's not quite as tall as Wade, only measuring 6'1+ without shoes. Kid is a bull and can play.
Haven't read through the thread..  
Sean : 5/19/2017 7:23 pm : link
to any of the experts on here-

Hypothetically, would it make sense to trade Porzingis for one of the top 3 picks and then draft BPA at say 3 & 8. Trade Melo for whatever assets you can get & start a true rebuild. I'm a huge fan of KP, but don't know this draft well enough if it would make sense to do this.
Hypothetically..  
Sean : 5/19/2017 7:35 pm : link
would you rather have De'Aaron Fox & Jonathan Isaac or Malik Monk & KP?
I think it's too risky to trade KP  
bceagle05 : 5/19/2017 7:38 pm : link
unless Ainge loves him so much that you get BOTH Brooklyn picks. Not sure any of these guys at the top are better than KP, especially the big men. Monk/Smith/Frank + KP + Melo trade + Lee/O'Quinn trade is enough for me.
RE: if all this stuff is true about kp being so angry  
djm : 5/19/2017 7:38 pm : link
In comment 13476611 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
if a team offered a top 5 pick and a young player for kp i thibk i would do it


My god you're lost
Malik Monk and KP for me.  
bceagle05 : 5/19/2017 7:39 pm : link
Two excellent shooters.
RE: I think it's too risky to trade KP  
Sean : 5/19/2017 7:41 pm : link
In comment 13476833 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
unless Ainge loves him so much that you get BOTH Brooklyn picks. Not sure any of these guys at the top are better than KP, especially the big men. Monk/Smith/Frank + KP + Melo trade + Lee/O'Quinn trade is enough for me.


I agree with this as well.
RE: Haven't read through the thread..  
djm : 5/19/2017 7:43 pm : link
In comment 13476827 Sean said:
Quote:
to any of the experts on here-

Hypothetically, would it make sense to trade Porzingis for one of the top 3 picks and then draft BPA at say 3 & 8. Trade Melo for whatever assets you can get & start a true rebuild. I'm a huge fan of KP, but don't know this draft well enough if it would make sense to do this.


Everyone stop with this trade KP nonsense .!!!

Some of you, many of you, have been fooled. It's not KP. It's the toxic shitty knicks. Dont fucking trade KP for shits sake!
RE: RE: if all this stuff is true about kp being so angry  
nygiants16 : 5/19/2017 7:47 pm : link
In comment 13476835 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13476611 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


if a team offered a top 5 pick and a young player for kp i thibk i would do it



My god you're lost


so if boston offers jaylen brown and number 1 for kp, you say no?
RE: RE: Haven't read through the thread..  
Sean : 5/19/2017 8:07 pm : link
In comment 13476840 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13476827 Sean said:


Quote:


to any of the experts on here-

Hypothetically, would it make sense to trade Porzingis for one of the top 3 picks and then draft BPA at say 3 & 8. Trade Melo for whatever assets you can get & start a true rebuild. I'm a huge fan of KP, but don't know this draft well enough if it would make sense to do this.



Everyone stop with this trade KP nonsense .!!!

Some of you, many of you, have been fooled. It's not KP. It's the toxic shitty knicks. Dont fucking trade KP for shits sake!


I agree, but it's not a bad hypothetical to entertain. The Sixers have traded off young assets for picks (for good or for bad), but it isn't an outrageous premise.
What's the point of building through the draft  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/19/2017 8:11 pm : link
if you're just going to sour on a top 10 pick after two years and want to "explore" trading him for another pick you can pin savior hopes on?

My main concern is Phil..  
Sean : 5/19/2017 8:11 pm : link
Phil hasn't exactly proved himself to be a big time executive and I worry just how invested he's into this. Would rather have a proven GM to oversee the rebuild.

I also think last years offseason is very concerning. It shows no long term plan and a quick deviation to try and grab a 6-8 seed and win 42ish games. So whose to say they start a rebuild and then next year get orders from Dolan to try and make the playoffs?

Overall, I'm excited for this draft, but still have major concerns about the people in charge.
Yeah, it's wise  
bceagle05 : 5/19/2017 8:15 pm : link
to be skeptical of any rebuilding plan. I'm hoping we try it this summer, which shouldn't be too much to ask. That'll ensure we'll be back in the top 10 of the draft next year, and maybe much higher. Just give me two high picks plus KP and Willy and see where we are.
You get  
Jon in NYC : 5/19/2017 8:16 pm : link
a top notch wing scorer next to Frank, KP and Willy, and we may be on to something here.
RE: I  
Anakim : 5/19/2017 8:25 pm : link
In comment 13476769 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Think you mean Porter. Beal signed an extension


Yeah, my bad
RE: Yeah, it's wise  
nygiants16 : 5/19/2017 8:32 pm : link
In comment 13476863 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
to be skeptical of any rebuilding plan. I'm hoping we try it this summer, which shouldn't be too much to ask. That'll ensure we'll be back in the top 10 of the draft next year, and maybe much higher. Just give me two high picks plus KP and Willy and see where we are.


woukd be an extra bonus to hit.on 1 of these 2 2nd round picks...

great draft to have 3 picks, hopefully get a first for lee or oquinn...
You know what the Celtics need?  
Anakim : 5/19/2017 9:45 pm : link
Carmelo Anthony :D


Trade for him, Danny! PLEASE!
KP & Melo  
PhilSimms15 : 5/19/2017 10:17 pm : link
I'd argue that part of the reason the Knicks have stunk and KP's growth has been stunted, is due to Melo. Anthony is a ball stopper, plays little D and seemingly puts NYC before winning. However, because he is a "superstar" the young players defer to him.

People in the organization say that Melo messed up Shumpert, THJ and now KP.

Melo has to go. Over the past five years, the Knicks have had 3 GM's, 5 coaches and a hundred or so players. The one constant, yes, Mr. Melo.

The culture on the team, as well as the play, will improve the minute Anthony is gone.
I think KP really needs to look in the mirror  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/19/2017 10:49 pm : link
and improve his own play before he starts pulling power plays. It would be one thing if he was pulling this shit coming off of KAT's season. Remember that the team was actually GOOD when KP got hurt... he came back and played worse and that was all she wrote for the season.

I truly don't know how anyone can defend this horseshit from KP unless they're incapable of seeing anything except through the lens of hating Phil and Dolan. If he thinks this situation is shitty, does he really believe this will help? All it does is create further chaos and feed the media's anti-Knicks bullshit and you know people like Woj eat that shit up. Perhaps KP being so tight with Melo is part of the problem. They both seem less capable of recognizing their own flaws than pointing out everyone else's.
KP  
Phil in LA : 5/19/2017 10:56 pm : link
Played with a couple of ball hogs this year, and he got hurt, so it wasn't the year we were hoping to see.
Shumpert is the same player he was with the Knicks.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/19/2017 11:30 pm : link
Nothing special. There were questions about his shot when he was drafted and he still can't shoot.
RE: You know what the Celtics need?  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2017 9:13 am : link
In comment 13476932 Anakim said:
Quote:
Carmelo Anthony :D


Trade for him, Danny! PLEASE!


I'm sure there's plenty re-evaluation going on in Boston.

Still don't see how PG, Melo, butler, etc. changes Boston's fortunes.
everyone keeps saying boston can add quickly  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2017 9:29 am : link
how? no one is signing there and by the time their picks hit their prime isiah and horford will be done...

plus your going to have to max isiah to keep him...
Why would you say no one is signing there.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/20/2017 9:35 am : link
They got Horford to sign. Everyone says they're going to go after Hayward very hard and there's a natural fit there between money and the fact that it's his college coach.

And whoever they get with the top pick, good chance he doesn't need to be at his prime to help a team that was already good enough to get to the conf final.
I don't see who the C's can add that  
giantsfan44ab : 5/20/2017 9:39 am : link
will put them over Cleveland. The best route, both financially and basketball-ly, is to stay the course, continue to be a top seed while building for the post-Lebron era. Might need to trade a player or two in that process (namely smart).
RE: Why would you say no one is signing there.  
nygiants16 : 5/20/2017 9:47 am : link
In comment 13477065 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
They got Horford to sign. Everyone says they're going to go after Hayward very hard and there's a natural fit there between money and the fact that it's his college coach.

And whoever they get with the top pick, good chance he doesn't need to be at his prime to help a team that was already good enough to get to the conf final.


first off hayward is not going there...

ok so it takes 2 years for him to develop, he is still a back up to thomas and bradley, if they let thomas go and start fulz are rhey better?

RE: RE: Why would you say no one is signing there.  
Mike in NJ : 5/20/2017 10:08 am : link
In comment 13477069 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13477065 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


They got Horford to sign. Everyone says they're going to go after Hayward very hard and there's a natural fit there between money and the fact that it's his college coach.

And whoever they get with the top pick, good chance he doesn't need to be at his prime to help a team that was already good enough to get to the conf final.



first off hayward is not going there...

ok so it takes 2 years for him to develop, he is still a back up to thomas and bradley, if they let thomas go and start fulz are rhey better?


I think Boston needs to look at this playoff series and realize that their best course of action is to "wait it out" until Lebron sees a significant decline or retires. Giving up assets for a guy like Jimmy Butler or Paul George isn't going to put them over the top, and honestly they would probably be better off trying to see what they can get for Thomas.

Jaylon Brown looks like a solid player with plenty of upside, build around Brown, Fultz and Bradley. They have another high pick coming from Boston next year, they need to just be patient and realize that they need to just forget about trying to get passed Lebron.
*edit*  
Mike in NJ : 5/20/2017 10:09 am : link
Another high pick coming from Brooklyn
RE: RE: RE: Why would you say no one is signing there.  
Deej : 5/20/2017 10:12 am : link
In comment 13477077 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:

I think Boston needs to look at this playoff series and realize that their best course of action is to "wait it out" until Lebron sees a significant decline or retires. Giving up assets for a guy like Jimmy Butler or Paul George isn't going to put them over the top, and honestly they would probably be better off trying to see what they can get for Thomas.

Jaylon Brown looks like a solid player with plenty of upside, build around Brown, Fultz and Bradley. They have another high pick coming from Boston next year, they need to just be patient and realize that they need to just forget about trying to get passed Lebron.


Agree 100%. The Horford-Thomas-defenders core is never going to compete with CLE and GSW. Unlike a lot of other good teams, they have an option -- develop the Nets picks. That should be their goal. I wouldnt race to trade off guys. You can pay Thomas a ton to be the best 6th man ever. Developing Brown, Fultz, and the 2018 Nets #1 in a winning environment will do wonders. They should chase Hayward too.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Why would you say no one is signing there.  
Mike in NJ : 5/20/2017 10:25 am : link
In comment 13477083 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13477077 Mike in NJ said:


Quote:



I think Boston needs to look at this playoff series and realize that their best course of action is to "wait it out" until Lebron sees a significant decline or retires. Giving up assets for a guy like Jimmy Butler or Paul George isn't going to put them over the top, and honestly they would probably be better off trying to see what they can get for Thomas.

Jaylon Brown looks like a solid player with plenty of upside, build around Brown, Fultz and Bradley. They have another high pick coming from Boston next year, they need to just be patient and realize that they need to just forget about trying to get passed Lebron.



Agree 100%. The Horford-Thomas-defenders core is never going to compete with CLE and GSW. Unlike a lot of other good teams, they have an option -- develop the Nets picks. That should be their goal. I wouldnt race to trade off guys. You can pay Thomas a ton to be the best 6th man ever. Developing Brown, Fultz, and the 2018 Nets #1 in a winning environment will do wonders. They should chase Hayward too.


They are going to find themselves in a similar situation with Thomas as to what the Knicks had with Melo a couple of years ago. You can't just let him walk for nothing, but at the same time, due to age his timeline doesn't line up wth the young players on the team. If they give Thomas $200 mil that contract is going to look really bad in year 2 or 3 of the deal, especially for a player his size. The one thing that will work out in Bostons favor is that there won't be a NTC involved in the contract to hinder them from moving on if need be.
Maybe Boston would do something like this  
Eli Wilson : 5/20/2017 12:07 pm : link
Melo + NYK 2018 1st round pick, for
#1 this year + salary filler

It would push out their "rebuild" another year.

It wouldn't be getting a lot for Melo, but better than a buyout or taking on Rivers.

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