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NFT: Mets Minors 5/19/2017-Sweet smelling Rosario

DanMetroMan : 5/19/2017 9:20 am
AAA Knapp
AA TBD
A+ Crismatt
A B. Taylor

AAA
Cecchini 1-5, 2 ks, error
Nimmo 0-3, 2 BB, 2 ks
Rosario 2-5, 3b, HR, K (Yawn)
Smith 3-5, K (.372 with 2 homers and 4 walks over his last 10)
Evans 1-4, BB, K
Smoker 4 innings 2 hits 1 er 2 walks 5 ks
McGowan 3 innings 1 hit 0 runs 1 walk 2 ks
Baldonado 0.1 innings 3 hits 3 er 1 walk 0 ks

AA
Guillorme 1-5, K
Nido 1-4, 2b, BB
Thompson 3-4, HR
Kaczmarski 1-2, BB
Conlon 6 innings 10 hits 5 runs 1 walk 4 ks
C Taylor 1 inning perfect 1 k

A+
Mora 0-4, 2 ks
TDA 2-4
Urena 0-3, BB, K
Mazeika 0-3, BB
Becerra 2-4, K
Matz 3 innings 2 hits 1 run 2 walks 3 ks
Lugo 3.2 innings 2 hits 0 runs 0 walks 0 ks

A
Cone 1-2, BB, 2 ks
Gimenez 2-4, 2b
Caprio 1-4, bb, K
Paez 0-3
Tebow 0-3, BB, K
Sanchez 1-3, BB, 2 ks
Lindsay 0-0
Merandy 7 innings 4 hits 0 runs 1 walk 4 ks
Zanghi 1 inning 2 hits 2 runs 1 walk 1 k
Uceta 0.2 innings 0 hits 0 runs 1 k
Even if the Mets season  
Metnut : 5/19/2017 9:25 am : link
goes south, it'll be fun to see how Rosario, Smith and Conforto develop. It'll be even more fun if the Mets can make another run at the wild card.

Hopefully the Mets gets Smoker back up to the big club. He struggled, but the pen is shot and he's still one our best chances to have another "plus" arm in there,
I'm not a met fan but you need to do thing to  
superspynyg : 5/19/2017 9:26 am : link
Spark your team now and Rosario looks like the answer.
That would have been  
Pete in MD : 5/19/2017 9:27 am : link
a fun night to see the SL Mets. Matz and Lugo pitching with TDA behind the plate. All for under ten bucks.
Can't bring Rosario up to be the "savior"  
Shecky : 5/19/2017 9:43 am : link
But at the same time he's convinced those who thought he needed more 'seasoning' that he may be more ready than they ever imagined. He's shown a very unexpected maturity.
RE: I'm not a met fan but you need to do thing to  
Jay on the Island : 5/19/2017 10:16 am : link
In comment 13476044 superspynyg said:
Quote:
Spark your team now and Rosario looks like the answer.

I disagree they shoudn't bring him up until after Super-two. The problem isn't the offense it's the pitching staff.
Putting the savior tag on a kid is an awful idea.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/19/2017 10:19 am : link
They doubled down on relying on players with injury concerns and got burned. Don't make another mistake by compromising the development of your top prospect. They need the next position player they develop to be a success.
Definitely not a savior.  
ZGiants98 : 5/19/2017 10:46 am : link
You hit him 8th and improve your range at SS. The hope would be by September he had acclimated to the majors and be an improvement over Cabrera/Reyes and be ready to hit the ground running next year.
I still wait until Super 2  
ZGiants98 : 5/19/2017 10:47 am : link
Because Reyes/Cabrera likely is t going to kill you until then.
I said in February  
pjcas18 : 5/19/2017 11:38 am : link
I would have started the season with Rosario at SS. And I stand by that. Not sure anything would be different in the standings, probably not. But I still think I would have done it (if there was a way to ensure he'd play every day).

Now that you're approaching the end of May it would be borderline ridiculous to bring him up 4 weeks before Super 2.

Not  
DanMetroMan : 5/19/2017 11:46 am : link
Editorializing , just added information. It's estimated Super Two would save the Mets between 15-25 million depending on Rosario (that's if he's good to great) obviously if he's below good those numbers mean nothing.
I really hate how Super Two holds teams hostage by  
PhiPsi125 : 5/19/2017 12:30 pm : link
keeping a player in minors longer than they need to because of the outrageous money it could cost them.

I know that it's ultimately the club's decision but I can understand why they do it. Its a ridiculous rule.
Just  
DanMetroMan : 5/19/2017 12:33 pm : link
to be clear, I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with the Mets decision. I was just curious what kind of savings it would be and 2 people who seemingly "know" these things gave me a range of 15-25 ish depending on good vs. great.
I wonder  
pjcas18 : 5/19/2017 12:39 pm : link
if teams have done studies to find out how often waiting on Super 2 actually pays off.

For example let's say it was Lastings Milledge or Fernando Martinez the Mets had been waiting on (maybe they did, I can't remember). Now you'd look back and laugh and say remember when we wanted to wait three weeks to keep cost control over Lastings Milledge another year?

Obviously no one has a crystal ball to know if it will matter, but from what I understand you're talking 3 - 6 years down the road, so if it's 15 - 25M in 3 - 6 years over the final 3 years, it's something I think teams should pay less attention to today.
PJ  
DanMetroMan : 5/19/2017 12:43 pm : link
it's a good question but on your other point I think Rosario opening the season as the SS would have been an absolutely awful decision (please don't take offense). But THAT would have cost the Mets a year of control. That's just not a decision ANY rational team makes.
Dan, I guess I just have the opposite viewpoint on this  
PhiPsi125 : 5/19/2017 12:48 pm : link
What they are really losing is a half-season's worth of control, right? I mean, we have to wait until half the season is essentially over before Super Two comes and goes. Why not just have the better player (potentially) for the start of the season? At very least we wouldn't have the stupid conversations of "well, they can't bring up the player to be a savior" bullcrap.

Super Two is one the worst things about MLB.
RE: PJ  
pjcas18 : 5/19/2017 12:49 pm : link
In comment 13476405 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
it's a good question but on your other point I think Rosario opening the season as the SS would have been an absolutely awful decision (please don't take offense). But THAT would have cost the Mets a year of control. That's just not a decision ANY rational team makes.


I'm not offended, I don't get offended when people have a different opinion respectfully, and even disrespectfully I usually don't get offended.

No one agreed with me on Rosario.

My thinking was the starting pitching, Cespedes, Duda, Familia, etc. would be healthy and the Mets would be championship contenders.

I viewed Rosario as "the missing piece". Not a savior, but a solid defender, a good OBP guy, and a plus speed guy.

Something they don't have a lot of, so to me, if you're a contender it made sense. Especially when the Mets opened the season with like 35 games mostly against the NL East. A fast start was critical.

So i'd take the gamble and even with Boras, I'd look to buy out a year of free agency, it backfires enough (like with Andrus) that who knows, maybe a 20 year old Rosario pulls the trigger, then it would be moot.

RE: Dan, I guess I just have the opposite viewpoint on this  
DanMetroMan : 5/19/2017 12:57 pm : link
In comment 13476417 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
What they are really losing is a half-season's worth of control, right? I mean, we have to wait until half the season is essentially over before Super Two comes and goes. Why not just have the better player (potentially) for the start of the season? At very least we wouldn't have the stupid conversations of "well, they can't bring up the player to be a savior" bullcrap.

Super Two is one the worst things about MLB.


Super Two deadline isn't what PJ is arguing. He's talking about Rosario opening the season with the Mets. That's a SEASON of control. Super Two simply relates to an extra year of arbitration meaning he gets expensive sooner. Opening the season with the big club = he's not a member of the Mets organization one season quicker. They wouldn't own his rights, he'd be a FA.
Arguing  
DanMetroMan : 5/19/2017 12:58 pm : link
is the right word, I guess "suggesting" would be a better word for it.
Just  
DanMetroMan : 5/19/2017 1:01 pm : link
for reference, Kris Bryant had a MONSTER season at AAA, a MONSTER ST hitting 9 homers and the Cubs and their bottomless pit of money still sent down Bryant for the requisite 11 days. For context not a single member of baseball america's preseason top 50 opened the season on the debuted on big league roster opening day. It just doesn't happen.
RE: Just  
pjcas18 : 5/19/2017 1:16 pm : link
In comment 13476449 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
for reference, Kris Bryant had a MONSTER season at AAA, a MONSTER ST hitting 9 homers and the Cubs and their bottomless pit of money still sent down Bryant for the requisite 11 days. For context not a single member of baseball america's preseason top 50 opened the season on the debuted on big league roster opening day. It just doesn't happen.


What do you mean? Made their debut or made the big league roster? A lot of the players already debuted.

Andrew Benintendi was #1 he was the Red Sox starting RF opening day.

Moncada debuted last year.

Dansby Swanson was #3, he was the Braves opening day SS.

Rosario was one of the highest rated pre-season guys to not have debuted yet.
RE: RE: Just  
DanMetroMan : 5/19/2017 1:35 pm : link
In comment 13476468 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13476449 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


for reference, Kris Bryant had a MONSTER season at AAA, a MONSTER ST hitting 9 homers and the Cubs and their bottomless pit of money still sent down Bryant for the requisite 11 days. For context not a single member of baseball america's preseason top 50 opened the season on the debuted on big league roster opening day. It just doesn't happen.



What do you mean? Made their debut or made the big league roster? A lot of the players already debuted.

Andrew Benintendi was #1 he was the Red Sox starting RF opening day.

Moncada debuted last year.

Dansby Swanson was #3, he was the Braves opening day SS.

Rosario was one of the highest rated pre-season guys to not have debuted yet.


Players with 0 service time opening up on 2017 rosters opening day aka what you wanted them to do with Rosario.
The  
DanMetroMan : 5/19/2017 1:39 pm : link
Players you named do not fit the Bryant/Rosario scenario. Guys who did not play a single MLB game but opened the season on the big league roster vs waiting the requisite 11 days in the minors.
So let's say the Mets  
pjcas18 : 5/19/2017 1:41 pm : link
opened the season with Rosario as SS, how would they control him less than the Red Sox would with Benintendi or the Braves would with Swanson?

Recognizing that both Swanson and Benintendi are a year older than Rosario and both made their debuts in the summer fall of 2016 (Benintendi August 2, Swanson August 17).
It  
DanMetroMan : 5/19/2017 1:46 pm : link
Wouldn't but those were in-season decisions (The Red Sox due to need). You think it's not a single top guy yet to play in a game made an opening day roster? Not a single example? Or Bryant and his 9 homer (led all players) being demoted? Why would a team prefer giving up a year vs waiting 11 days? It doesn't make any sense to do so
Shoild  
DanMetroMan : 5/19/2017 1:48 pm : link
Also be noted Cabrera does not want to play 3B so Rosario at SS to open the season made even less sense. Everyone seemed very happy with Cabrera last season. He's been hurt and shitty this season but without a crystal ball who would have known that?
RE: It  
pjcas18 : 5/19/2017 1:51 pm : link
In comment 13476499 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Wouldn't but those were in-season decisions (The Red Sox due to need). You think it's not a single top guy yet to play in a game made an opening day roster? Not a single example? Or Bryant and his 9 homer (led all players) being demoted? Why would a team prefer giving up a year vs waiting 11 days? It doesn't make any sense to do so


It's a little loaded since many of them already made their debuts like Benintendi, Swanson, Moncada, etc. and then some of their ETA's (like Vlad) aren't until 2019 or 2020.

If you limit it to the players expected to make 2017 appearances in the majors, see if they're blocked by someone legit, is the team expected to contend or not, and then analyze it, then it's a better gauge.

on the surface I'd have to agree with you, but even waiting 11 days I'd say is fine if that changes a year of control. Clearly that's now that the Mets did.

not many teams did just that either though, so maybe it's not just the 11 days, but players aren't ready or have a legit capable option blocking them.

The  
DanMetroMan : 5/19/2017 1:54 pm : link
Bryant decision was a big deal at the time. I thought they would change the rules but haven't


"The Cubs gained an extra year of service out of Bryant before he can become a free agent when they kept him in the minors for 11 days before his debut on April 17, 2015. That spring, Bryant became the first player in at least a decade to lead the Grapefruit League and Cactus League in home runs and not make an Opening Day roster.

MLB players can become eligible for free agency after their sixth year of service time."
How many games has Cabrera lost for the Mets  
Shecky : 5/19/2017 1:55 pm : link
Or how many more games would Rosario have won?
Is Rosario v Cabrera really the issue with this years team?
Some  
DanMetroMan : 5/19/2017 1:56 pm : link
Good stuff from Jeff P
Link - ( New Window )
RE: How many games has Cabrera lost for the Mets  
pjcas18 : 5/19/2017 1:59 pm : link
In comment 13476512 Shecky said:
Quote:
Or how many more games would Rosario have won?
Is Rosario v Cabrera really the issue with this years team?


I said the standings might be exactly the same, who knows. Cabrera is certainly upgradeable, just not sure Rosario would have upgraded him and even if he did, does it change the standings.

Maybe Flores isn't playing 3B last week in the game Familia imploded if Rosario is at SS.
RE: RE: How many games has Cabrera lost for the Mets  
PhiPsi125 : 5/19/2017 2:34 pm : link
In comment 13476514 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13476512 Shecky said:


Quote:


Or how many more games would Rosario have won?
Is Rosario v Cabrera really the issue with this years team?



I said the standings might be exactly the same, who knows. Cabrera is certainly upgradeable, just not sure Rosario would have upgraded him and even if he did, does it change the standings.

Maybe Flores isn't playing 3B last week in the game Familia imploded if Rosario is at SS.


Enough with the Flores defense with that game. Flores didn't walk two batters and give up three hits while recording ZERO outs. But because he bobbles a rope to third base where the pitcher put all the pressure on the fielders and we are supposed to assume that they turn the double play (which they still likely don't). I'm tired of Flores taking all the blame for that play.

Sorry pj...struck a cord.
The only team I can honestly think of who broke  
bhill410 : 5/19/2017 3:24 pm : link
the season with a massive prospect with 0 service time was the Marlins with Fernandez, and barring his tragic ending it would have cost them greatly.
RE: RE: RE: How many games has Cabrera lost for the Mets  
pjcas18 : 5/19/2017 3:48 pm : link
In comment 13476541 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13476514 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 13476512 Shecky said:


Quote:


Or how many more games would Rosario have won?
Is Rosario v Cabrera really the issue with this years team?



I said the standings might be exactly the same, who knows. Cabrera is certainly upgradeable, just not sure Rosario would have upgraded him and even if he did, does it change the standings.

Maybe Flores isn't playing 3B last week in the game Familia imploded if Rosario is at SS.



Enough with the Flores defense with that game. Flores didn't walk two batters and give up three hits while recording ZERO outs. But because he bobbles a rope to third base where the pitcher put all the pressure on the fielders and we are supposed to assume that they turn the double play (which they still likely don't). I'm tired of Flores taking all the blame for that play.

Sorry pj...struck a cord.


I don't blame Flores for the loss, in fact he almost won the game in the bottom of the inning, just saying though, it's hard to quantify W's and L's with the butterfly effect if Rosario started the season at SS.
Sandy  
DanMetroMan : 5/19/2017 4:02 pm : link
just said there are no plans to call up Rosario.
It's common cents  
Shecky : 5/19/2017 4:06 pm : link
Let's say a team knew for a FACT a prospect would be called up for opening day and have a historic season. I mean literally, the best season in history. Not just for a rookie, but ever.
We are looking at what, a 3 maybe 4 WAR player prior to super 2? So in terms of 'dollars' that's worth say, $30mm. That's absolute BEST CASE.

But we also know, that team just cost itself about $30mm in future dollars now too. So BEST CASE, team breaks even.

That doesn't factor in any other issues such as is the player ready, is he more likely to develop long term by working on the intricacies of the game, etc etc.
.  
DanMetroMan : 5/19/2017 4:21 pm : link
Bo (Myrtle beach): Amed Rosario looks great. Let's not talk about eta since it's anyone's guess. Can you speak a little to the power surge we are seeing? Is he really growing into the power? Is he the next Lindor?

Kyle Glaser: I was shocked, in a good way, how much power he showed at Futures Game BP at Petco last year. As in, having never seen him in person before, my eyes were way, way opened. I think there's very legit power there. I wouldn't say he's the next Lindor because Lindor is an absolute freak of nature and athleticism, but Rosario has a chance to be very, very, very good for a long time


Quote:
Larry (Long Island, New York): Do you think prospects shouldn't be brought up to a slumping team? I'm asking because I wonder if the reason Rosario and Smith aren't up is it would be too much pressure on them

Kyle Glaser: No, it's better to bring them up on a slumping team. Less pressure, don't have to worry about wins and losses, just let them come up and learn and do their thing. It's still relatively early. I think if and when the Mets truly fall out of it in June or July is when you'll see them up (barring injury, of course)

Quote:
Dan (Texas): Luis Urias vs Rosario. Who has the better OPS in the show?

Kyle Glaser: Rosario because he's going to have a huge slugging edge. Think .310 with a .360 OBP for both, but Rosario slugs .450-.460 and Urias is more .410
Was at the game last night  
SJGiant : 5/19/2017 5:19 pm : link
Saw first 3 ABs. Home Run and two long flyouts. Took video of first two at bats. Not good quality.

The ball really jumps off his bat. Amazing power in that smallish frame.

Smith looked good at first base. Nice defense as well as hitting.

Smoker started. Never thought he make it out of the first inning. Settled down for remaining three innings.

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