We saw Landon Collins breakout this past season, after having an up and down rookie season.
I think Shepard and Adams are poised to have better seasons coming up. The added pieces on offense are going to make it easier to get these guys balls in different offensive pairings.
Who do you have?
He's going to lose a lot of snaps to Engram.
oops. wrong button.
He's going to lose a lot of snaps to Engram.
If you're playing Fantasy Football, then maybe it's obvious. If all you care about is stats, then maybe it's obvious. If you're trying to help your team win football games, then maybe it's not so obvious.
I'm so glad I quit fantasy football last year.
You are in lala land and you are making no sense. Shepard vs Sharpe:
Catches-67 vs 41
Yards-683 vs 522
TDs-8 vs 2
Completion % of balls thrown to them-61.9% vs 49.4%
Sharpes longest play of the year was 34 yards. Sheps was 32 yards. They each had 3 "big plays". Shep had 42 catches for a first down. Sharpe had 27. So yeah, I'd say it's pretty clear Shep had a more impactful rookie season. Now.....your turn.
This is such a myopic view it doesnt really deserve a response but I wanted to throw out some data to show that your "underwhelming" evaluation is, well...dumb.
Because we are talking about how much improvement we expect you cant just ignore that it was his rookie year. It is not like we are talking about a guy who has been in the league for 8 years and he is what he is. We are not talking about simply evaluating last season. The question was, who will make a big jump and ignoring the fact that he was a rookie changes the discussion entirely.
Below is how he ranks among all WRs taken in the 1st and 2nd rounds since 1978 (when the NFL went to a 16 game schedule) almost 40 years ago.
REC: Top 6.8%
YARDS: Top 22.7%
TDs: Top 3.6%
So I ask you, by what metric is that an "underwhelming" rookie year?
Pro Football Reference - ( New Window )
In comparison, defenses constantly loaded the box on Tenn and they had to key on 2 other WR's and you think that hurt Sharpe?
Odd way your brain works there Klat.
He should have had less targets - but he made more with what he had.
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Compare Shepard to all of the WRs in the NFL and his numbers are, as I said, pedestrian. Now, maybe I got spoiled watching Steve Smith and Victor Cruz set records in the slot, and maybe Sterling Shepard will improve (no doubt there's room for it), but based on last year's performance, yes, consider me underwhelmed.
This is such a myopic view it doesnt really deserve a response but I wanted to throw out some data to show that your "underwhelming" evaluation is, well...dumb.
Because we are talking about how much improvement we expect you cant just ignore that it was his rookie year. It is not like we are talking about a guy who has been in the league for 8 years and he is what he is. We are not talking about simply evaluating last season. The question was, who will make a big jump and ignoring the fact that he was a rookie changes the discussion entirely.
Below is how he ranks among all WRs taken in the 1st and 2nd rounds since 1978 (when the NFL went to a 16 game schedule) almost 40 years ago.
REC: Top 6.8%
YARDS: Top 22.7%
TDs: Top 3.6%
So I ask you, by what metric is that an "underwhelming" rookie year? Pro Football Reference - ( New Window )
If this is underwhelming, I want more of it.
Shepard is, as I said, a good, serviceable shot receiver, but the idea that he's anything more than that is, to me, ludicrous. Maybe he'll prove me wrong, so let's see.
Compared to 2nd Round Picks (1978-Present)
REC: Top 5.6%
YARDS: Top 13.4%
TDs: Top 5%
Compared to 2nd AND 3rd Round Picks (1978-Present)
REC: Top 3.1%
YARDS: Top 10%
TDs: Top 1.4%
I could but I am not going to. You can though!
You are talking about what he IS based on his rookie year and that is wrong on at least two levels.
1. The discussion is not what a player is but what kind of improvement he will make from last year to this year.
2. Your assessment of his rookie year as "serviceable" and "underwhelming" is not supported by facts.
The only player we can't be "sure about" really is MLB Goodson because he had so few snaps on defense.
But the potential of Eli Apple, Sterling Sharpe, D. Thompson, P. Perkins, J. Adams, Okwara, FS Adams is very high based on the flashes they showed last year and coach comments. Health is of course important and will key the class upside but man does it look good.
So a better comparison for setting current expectations would be SS vs rookie WRs in the last 5 seasons. Here's his ranks (146 WRs drafted). Note that I included all drafted rookies, not just those taken in the 1st two rounds.
Rec
Shepard - tied 9th (top 6%)
Yds
Shepard - 17th (top 12%)
TDs
Shepard - tied 5th (top 3.5%)
Yds/Rec (min 20 rec) - 51 total WRs
Shepard - 40th (top 79%)
*Shepard - 93rd out of 174 (top 54%)
*his rank compared to rookie WRs drafted in rds 1-2 dating back to 1978.
So I think it's pretty fair to be 'underwhelmed' by Shepard's ability after the catch (to date).
Jarvis Landry
Brandin Cooks
Cooks was surprising to see at <10.5 due to his great speed and I don't think he's a great comp for Shepard, though he's also undersized. But Landry might be the best comp out there since he's primarily a slot WR. Shepard's 40 yd/3 cone/20 yd shuttles all blew away Landry's numbers, so hopefully there's a lot of untapped potential there. That said, Landry definitely plays faster than his timed numbers. I knew his 40 wasn't fast, but didn't realize his 3-cone/short shuttle were so pedestrian. Watching him play, he's one of the best at making the 1st defender miss.
Link - ( New Window )
I'm not speaking for Klaatu or anyone else. And I never said YAC was the only thing important. I was merely elaborating on my earlier post in which I said his YAC performance was below my expectations.
of all time?
2. Minimum of 20 receptions seems low as well. To compare SS to other WR's, you have to go minimum of 50 catches. Think about a rookie that has 20 catches in a season(1 per game). You can't compare that to SS who plays every snap.
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YAC is now the only thing we should look at in judging WRs? It's an indicator, but there are also a lot of things that go into YAC(such as the fact that defenses keyed on SS because of the lack of weapons around him). He didn't say he was concerned about his YAC, he said he was underwhelming as a rookie and basically said that SS won't ever get better and will always be a JAG.
I'm not speaking for Klaatu or anyone else. And I never said YAC was the only thing important. I was merely elaborating on my earlier post in which I said his YAC performance was below my expectations.
Gotcha. I didn't see your earlier post.
2. Minimum of 20 receptions seems low as well. To compare SS to other WR's, you have to go minimum of 50 catches. Think about a rookie that has 20 catches in a season(1 per game). You can't compare that to SS who plays every snap.
5 years was just a "round" number, though there have been a larger # of WRs making an immediate impact the last few years compared to even 2000 (think Beckham, Landry, Benjamin, Cooks, Cooper, Evans, etc). Here are the numbers for 10 years (53 total WRs)
Rec (min 40 rec)
Shepard - tied 11th (top 21%)
Yards (min 40 rec)
Shepard - 30th (top 57%)
TDs (min 40 rec)
Shepard - tied 6th (top 12%)
Yards/Rec(min 40 rec)
Shepard - 44th (top 83%)
Yards/Rec (min 30 rec)
Shepard - 68th out of 80 (top 85%)
You look at the explosive 2nd/3rd round type slot WRs around the league - a young Cobb, Jamison Crowder, Ty Lockette, Doug Baldwin etc - that's what I was personally expecting from Shepard. That said, like any rookie, there's plenty of room for improvement and it's unfair to look at him as a finished product. Landon Collins is the poster boy.
Also, his percentiles are inflated by my numbers since I include all drafted WRs, not just those in the top 2 rounds. His absolute ranks are relatively the same, but if you only look at WRs that actually caught passes (see my subsequent post) his percentile's don't look as 'sexy'.
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can be a star in the making. Some of the footage from last year shows a young back with the instincts of a more mature back.
I'd like to see Perkins with some blocking in front of him. Ellison will be a big boost to the run game.
Think of this
last year Will Tye and Adams tried to move LBs and Safeties and couldn't do it. This year Ellison is a monster on the line moving guys. Perkins only needs to see daylight and the yards will come. Add in Fluker on the RT who can really run block and you can really have a nice ground game.
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So his production should hopefully increase. He's going to get more carries, so let's hope he makes the most of them.
I was underwhelmed by Shepard last year, and don't really expect much more out of him this year.
65 catches, 683 yards and 8 TD's from the slot for a 2nd round rookie is underwhelming?
No shit. That was a stupid statement
I look forward to training camp and seeing the leaps that last year's class will certainly make. I think last off-season will go down as the Giants best ever in terms of talent coming aboard. It will take 3 years to truly judge, maybe even four years, but I BET it will be a great grade, A+.
We saw solid play from CB Eli Apple for much of the season. He had some down times too BUT what rookie doesn't? He has the size and speed to matchup with today's NFL receivers. I predict he gets his technique down and becomes a "top quarter" of the NFL corner, someone you can leave "1 on 1" with top receivers and get good production. The triplets of Jenkinks, DRC and Apple will be a headache for everyone they face.
Sterling Sharpe had a very good campaign. He didn't display YAC ability and burst but he may improve there with some experience. Where I think he'll improve most is getting open in the short area. He may give up some playing time to Engram as we diversify our lineups and sets, but he'll have a very good year and become a blanket for Eli Manning.
FS D. Thompson flashed before his injury. He clearly gets the intellectual, technique part of the game. Assuming he is 100% for camp and stays healthy, he is an upgrade over UDFA Adams, who should also improve some. But D. Thompson can make this backfield the NFL's best if he is as good as the coaches think and stays healthy. A true mid-fielder.
MLB Goodson was a leader in college but didn't start much. He played special teams last year and learned the NFL game by watching. The coaches obviously like him as they didn't resign a veteran MLB. I look for him to be a run thumper and upgrade, but its just a guess since his body of work is small.
RB Perkins will bust out. He will share carries, sure, but he can run & catch which makes him very useful. I see him getting quite a few dump off passes, those easy ones where he is wide open and can get those 4 - 7 yards to keep the chains moving.
TE Adams flashed at times. His run blocking must improve and he has the physical tools to do it. I look for him to bring it this year and be part of 2 TE lineups at times. Ellison, Engram will get most of the playing time but he'll still see snaps and help.
UDFA Okwara played well as a rookie, filling in for JPP. Look for this kid to really step up now that he's had an off-season, weight room training and so forth. A DL rotation is best and he'll suit up each week.
Once again, I think last off-season will go down as one of the Giant all-time off-seasons in terms of UFA's, draft picks and UDFA additions who impact.
Bravo to Reese!
You do realize that a somewhat dysfunctional offense actually hinders a wr, right?
I'd say Shepard was more impactful since he out produced sharpe and played on a team that won more games. But stats can be misleading. Lol.
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It shouldn't come as a surprise that Shepard had a lot of catches.
You do realize that a somewhat dysfunctional offense actually hinders a wr, right?
If you argue that Sheppard's game doesn't have that much room to grow, then I can agree. He's nothing special, but very very solid. He runs good routes and has good hands. I think fans are asking for too much. Just be glad he wasn't a bust. There's always room on a roster for a guy like him.
If you argue that Sheppard's game doesn't have that much room to grow, then I can agree. He's nothing special, but very very solid. He runs good routes and has good hands. I think fans are asking for too much. Just be glad he wasn't a bust. There's always room on a roster for a guy like him.
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last year is ludicrous itself. He was a rookie and had 60+ catches and 8 tds. I don't think its even an opinion at that point when you compare him to history not just that year.
If you argue that Sheppard's game doesn't have that much room to grow, then I can agree. He's nothing special, but very very solid. He runs good routes and has good hands. I think fans are asking for too much. Just be glad he wasn't a bust. There's always room on a roster for a guy like him.
Sterling won't likely be on the field for as many snaps this year (unless we have a hell of a lot more snaps, which we may....) but he'll likely produce better overall with a year's experience. I don't see him as a "100-1100-10" type slot guy necessarily (jury is out) but he'll always be solid and reliable none-the-less.
I agree, he is a solid slot receiver with some potential to grow on.
At first he may not get as many looks. And I hear a lot of BBIers saying Sterling won't see the field that much and will take a bench role. First off, guys/gals, there is such a thing called injuries (I think we know something about that). Marshall has quite the injury history, even if its just a game here or a few games there. Also, there will be plenty of formations where Sheppard is not only included, but will be an important piece to the play calls. It's almost as if people didn't watch this kid last year. He was very good in the slot and with all the added size at WR, he will probably get almost all his looks from the inside again. Also, Engram will get plays off, as with Ellison. I believe Sheppard will still be an integral part of this offense.
My list, in the general order of how I think things will play out rather than "Wish List" is as follows:
1. Flowers - I think he worked very hard this off-season. He has the physical tools; is only 23; and now has a 2nd off-season with top notch OL coach Solari. Look for him to jump from bottom five LT to the 12 - 14 range, give or take. I especially see him and Pugh being dominant run blockers.
2. Apple - the kid flashed well and now has a solid year under his belt. Look for him to start and be a Top 10 corner, yes top 10.
3. D. Thompson - if healthy, and I believe he'll be fine, this kid flashed centerfielder ability and leadership you rarely find in a rookie. A true shame he was hurt last year as he'd have made our defensive secondary almost impossible to throw on. He will solidify our secondary to league best, bar none, along with Apple.
4. B. Hart - this is a bit of a leap for even me but last year he was a bottom 5 RT, this year he steps up to acceptable level. A guy you can live with and when necessary protect with Ellison.
5. Sterling Shepard - look for this guy to become "Mr. Automatic" on 3rd downs.
6. P. Perkins - 1,000 yards +, 4.5 ypc +, and a bunch of those "I'm wide open" catches.
7. B. Goodson - starting MLB upgrades over Shepard.
8. A. Adams - he'll step up after a decent rookie year and be a solid backup, ST performer
9. J. Adams - big guy who can catch but how much his blocking steps up remains to be seen. I like that he'll be behind Ellison, learning.
10. Okwara - I love that he stepped in and held his own at DE when JPP went down.
Those are my top 10 to step up, ranked generally where I think it will fall. I'm ecstatic that we had a great off-season last year.