... maybe not the best last year. I realize you can't necessarily draw lock-tight conclusions from these types of comparisons, but I wanted to put it all out in front of everyone. Could the organization be doing this JUST the right way? Being patient and adding pieces and some low-risk, high-reward possibilities?
Not sure what the best way to do this is, but here we go.
+++
2007 LT
Dave Diehl (27) 5th round (Giants) 160th pick
2011 LT
Will Beatty (26) 2nd round (Giants) 68th pick
2016 LT
Ereck Flowers (22) 1st round (Giants) 9th pick
2017 LT depth chart
Ereck Flowers (23) 1st round (Giants) 9th pick
+++
2007 LG
Rich Seubert (28) UDFA (Giants)
2011 LG
Dave Diehl (31) 5th round (Giants) 160th pick
2016 LG
Justin Pugh (25) 1st round (Giants) 19th pick
2017 LG depth chart
Justin Pugh (25) 1st round (Giants) 19th pick
Adam Gettis (27) 5th round (Redskins) 141st pick
Jessamen Dunker (22/23?) UDFA (Giants)
+++
2007 Center
Shaun O'Hara (30) UDFA (Browns)
2011 Center
David Baas (30) 2nd round (49ers) 33rd pick
2016 Center
Weston Richburg (25) 2nd round (Giants) 43rd pick
2017 Center depth chart
Weston Richburg (26) 2nd round (Giants) 43rd pick
Brett Jones (26) CFL Draft (Giants)
+++
2007 RG
Chris Snee (25) 2nd round (Giants) 34th pick
2011 RG
Chris Snee (29) 2nd round (Giants) 34th pick
2016 RG
John Jerry (30) 3rd round (Dolphins) 73rd pick
Bobby Hart (22) 7th round (Giants) 226th
2017 RG depth chart
John Jerry (31) 3rd round (Dolphins) 73rd pick
+++
2007 RT
Kareem McKenzie (28) 3rd round (Jets) 79th pick
2011 RT
Kareem McKenzie (32) 3rd round (Jets) 79th pick
2016 RT
Marshall Newhouse (27) 5th round (Packers) 169th pick
Adam Gettis (27) 5th round (Redskins) 141st pick
2017 RT depth chart
DJ Fluker (26) 1st round (Chargers) 11th pick
Bobby Hart (23) 7th round (Giants) 226th
Adam Bisnowaty (24) 6th round (Giants) 200th pick
+++
Looking at potentially starting three 1st-rounders (Flowers, Pugh, Fluker), a 2nd-rounder (Richburg) and either a not terrible vet (Jerry), which is likely, or one of a couple decent prospects (Hart or Bisnowaty).
Anybody else feelin' me here? LET'S GO!!!
I think Reese does have a "plan" for the OL but there is no guarantee the plan works out, of course. The key this year after health is for Flowers to really step up; for Hart to be serviceable; and, if worthy, for maybe Fluker to outright beat out Jerry.
I had noted on another thread whether the Giants should consider moving Fluker to LG and Pugh back to RT? I mean, if we have OG talent why not move the one guy who can shore up RT to RT? Or is it that the Giants believe Pugh is a probowl caliber LG and can help Flowers? I don't know...but the move has me thinking.
If is is possible to create such a system it should be one that gives us at least an average to above average o-line year after year. Offense starts in the trenches.
The better approach would have been to sign Fluker to an easily voidable 2-year deal, even if it meant giving a bigger bonus at the front end.
The better approach would have been to sign Fluker to an easily voidable 2-year deal, even if it meant giving a bigger bonus at the front end.
You didn't take into consideration that Fluker did not want to sign that kind of deal. He is hoping to play well for the Giants this year to build up his value to sign a big deal next year.
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If he wins the RG spot, he benches Jerry. If he wins the RT spot he benches Hart, also setting Hart's development back or writing Hart's career off. If he plays well, then the Giants have to decide who to try to sign for next year among Pugh, Richburg and Fluker or Fluker may leave regardless. If Fluker doesn't play well, the Giants still have to decide whether to re-sign him or replace him, putting the o-line in the same questionable position as this year.
The better approach would have been to sign Fluker to an easily voidable 2-year deal, even if it meant giving a bigger bonus at the front end.
You didn't take into consideration that Fluker did not want to sign that kind of deal. He is hoping to play well for the Giants this year to build up his value to sign a big deal next year.
My only suggestion here is that there's great potential, and the key guys are still young. This, we can hope, is a turn-the-corner season for the group up front.
My only suggestion here is that there's great potential, and the key guys are still young. This, we can hope, is a turn-the-corner season for the group up front.
That even a sub-FANTASTIC line can get the job done, if other pieces are solid.
I am still thinking why not put Fluker at LG and move Petitgout back to RT? Make OT much better and hope Fluker and his big body can do good on the inside?
27 in August.
That even a sub-FANTASTIC line can get the job done, if other pieces are solid.
It wasn't sub-fantastic, it sucked. Worse, in many ways, than the OL was last year.
It just took a level of play from the QB that he wasn't unable to sustain long term and no longer likely has in him now for it not to derail the entire offense then the same way (or worse, because of the system difference).
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25 this season. Third year. Huge.
Pugh is 27 and in the final year of his 5 year rookie first round pick contract. If he has a probowl type year, he will likely command good money due to his versatility.
I am still thinking why not put Fluker at LG and move Petitgout back to RT? Make OT much better and hope Fluker and his big body can do good on the inside?
Geez. You think that harshly of Pugh? lol
...sucks.
And this offensive line ain't shit until they do something about him. Like right tackle or left bench.
The better approach would have been to sign Fluker to an easily voidable 2-year deal, even if it meant giving a bigger bonus at the front end.
We're shooting for a long run this & hoping the guy can step in off the bat.
Nothing gained by having Fluker on a 1-year deal. No matter what happens, he will be gone in 2018 and the Giants will be trying to figure out who will start in 2018.
Nothing gained by having Fluker on a 1-year deal. No matter what happens, he will be gone in 2018 and the Giants will be trying to figure out who will start in 2018.
Fluker was one of the best lineman the year he was drafted. He has size strength and talent to be a stud. It hasnt happened, but he wasnt bad either. May not happen, but there is a reason to be optimistic.
Flowers was not as bad as many say and at 23 he is more likely to get better than worse. Again size strength talent are there.
Very possible that we could have 4 plus o-lineman.
That leaves Jerry you know what you have and Hart who again should improve but does not have upside of Fluker. The new lineman are wild cards.
BBI thread about Flowers' work ethic this off-season - ( New Window )
But Flowers held his own, imperfect, but he held his own. It is the fact that he didn't get any better year #2 that I think has most questioning him and you can't blame fans. But at age 23, year #2 with Solari, a strong off-season working out & learning, I think Flowers blossoms into the guy we thought he'd be when we took him.
I'm praying Pugh, Richburg play near a probowl level giving us a strong inside OL. We just need Flowers and Hart to get to average status and Eli will take care of the rest.
Weak, weak area that is holding the team back...
Weak, weak area that is holding the team back...
I do believe Pugh & Richburg can be "top quarter" in the league at their respective positions. Flowers and Hart have nowhere to go but up given then horrible overall play last year. I am hoping Fluker surprises in camp and maybe wins a starting position outright.
But mostly I love TE Ellison and developing Adams to help with blocking; Perkins to improve the run game; Engram to keep safeties back, etc.
Lastly, I believe in continuity & development.