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Good Eli, bad Eli, or so-so Eli

JimNY56 : 5/19/2017 4:15 pm
Dan Graziano, ESPN --- QB Confidece Index

"Eli Manning hasn't missed a game since he became the Giants' starter midway through his rookie season.

His production dipped in 2016, but some in the Giants' building believe a lack of non-Odell Beckham weapons and poor pass protection had more to do with that than anything else.

Manning did just turn 36, though, and the team is thinking about the future."

...........

Any GM would be crazy not to think about the future when their starting QB is 36. Giants did in the 3rd round, and might due it again next year. Actually should do it again next year. Then let those two fight it out to start when Manning retires in three or four years.

"Some in the building believe" --- He didn't name anyone but I'm guessing it wasn't McAdoo because he blamed a good deal of the problems of the offense last year on Manning, but didn't mention his mediocre play calling after having success his first two years as OC with some creative play calling. I'm also guessing Reese wasn't one because a good deal of the problems the offense had was centered around the OL and not getting a good WR across from Beckham.


So who are the supporters that Graziano was taking about that don't believe Manning was the problem, maybe Mara/Tisch?


Manning imo wasn't the reason the offense sucked last year. Injuries, McAdoo's vanilla play calling, and Reese not addressing the offense line earlier is 90% of it.

[No real running game because of the OL. Average at best pass protection. No one besides Beckham, maybe Shepard with Cruz being a shell of himself. Vanilla play calling.]

Where were the main problems on offense last year and what percent would you give to each that cause the offense to suck.

IMO
60% OL [Injuries/play Flower, Jerry and Hart, most negative area]
15% OC [Vanilla play calling]
15% TE/WR [No major option at TE or 2nd Wideout across from Beckham]
10% Manning

What is your take:


.
One could argue...  
jogo1 : 5/19/2017 4:52 pm : link
the 2016 Giants had the worst OT group, the worst TE group, and the worst RB group in the league. That's insanely bad--which non top-5 QB could have led an effective offense with that surrounding cast?
to be honest  
BlackburnBalledOut : 5/19/2017 4:56 pm : link
i still think Eli is just as good as he's ever been. the lack of a line and run game made the offense one dimensional. Add that to the dreadful play calling that called for mostly short passes and we're looking at a very predictable offense. No QB will succeed under the kind of pressuse Manning has been under in the last few years.

I dont get the folks who believe manning's play has dipped either. Manning threw for over 4,000 yards with 26 TD's and completed a near career high 63% (his career high is 63.1%) of his passes last year.It also went pretty overlooked that he had 6 GWD's last year as well. He hasnt had a TE in years. Tye is a great story, local kid, tryout guy, plays hard, i like him but hes a backup at best on most if not all the teams in the league. Cruz was playing out of position on the outside, and even then his last truly productive year was 2013, but even then he lost time due to injury.

Does Eli throw a head scratcher from time to time? yes, he does. But he is a quarterback who has never been afraid to make a contested throw, he lets his receivers try to make a play on the ball. Bit of a gunslinger and on a personal level thats what i want in a QB... minus beckham and a bit of sheppard he hasnt had many quality receivers in the last few seasons. In games Beckham was shut out the Giants couldnt do anything, no one got open and the line could barely hold up long enough for the short routes to develop.

Football is the ultimate team sport and without a good suppporting cast idk what can realistically be expected from a QB.

Now with Marhsall and Engram added to the mix he has 2 more legitimate options to choose from, the offense becomes more spread out and less predictable.

I expect great Eli.
Didn't someone do an analysis of the passing game a few weeks back  
Scyber : 5/19/2017 4:56 pm : link
and the production from the WRs group was pretty consistent between 2015 and 2016. It was the TE and RB contribution to the passing game that dropped significantly.
I keep thinking about the playoff game  
JohnB : 5/19/2017 5:00 pm : link
Eli showed and played a very good game. The WRs sucked, dropped balls and they lost.

Eli has still got it.
Yeah playoff game  
Motley Two : 5/19/2017 5:06 pm : link
Eli showed up to work. He was the best player on his side of the ball and surprisingly enough, Flowers might have been the 2nd best player on the offense.

Manning wasn't the problem last year and won't be this year!  
JimNY56 : 5/19/2017 5:34 pm : link
If this year the OL steps up some, with Hart and Flowers improving the most - a lot falls into place.
Perkins runs better [he was good last season]
Vereen is back
Marshall and Ellison add a lot.
Add to that Engram and 2nd year Shepard and hopefully McAdoo won't play call so vanilla.
Your TE/WR  
UConn4523 : 5/19/2017 5:37 pm : link
number is way off and because of that the play calling was what it was. The OL still needs to improve most but having more weapons will help that.
The Giants this year have no excuses than to be a top ten offense  
JimNY56 : 5/19/2017 5:44 pm : link
with their new additions and some players been back from injuries and the OL improves.
Add that to a top 5 defense and the Giants should go deep into the playoffs.
RE: Didn't someone do an analysis of the passing game a few weeks back  
SGMen : 5/19/2017 5:47 pm : link
In comment 13476713 Scyber said:
Quote:
and the production from the WRs group was pretty consistent between 2015 and 2016. It was the TE and RB contribution to the passing game that dropped significantly.
Losing Vereen and FB Johnson were both big blows. Johnson would have helped the OL block, RB's find holes. Vereen would have converted some of those 3rd downs. Injuries are part of the game and we simply could not overcome.
Giants  
rocco8112 : 5/19/2017 8:53 pm : link
starting RB, TE and WR2 going into last season no longer have NFL jobs.

One is producing a reality TV show, one is dancing on reality TV and one is a joke.

Combine this with an o - line that no one can argue was in the top half of the league and it is no wonder the offense struggled.

I put Eli way down the list of the offensive problems last season.
Defense won it last year  
xman : 5/19/2017 11:05 pm : link
Manning still has it but he needs help. If he gets this help he can manage wins
Giants were moving the ball pretty well in first few games  
Jimmy Googs : 5/20/2017 9:14 am : link
even though the scoring wasn't that great. They went over 400 yards versus Saints and Redskins, and would have been the same over Cowboys but we hardly had the ball.

Then Vereen went down and that was clearly a direct negative impact for Eli.

Then you started seeing poor performances from the Oline unit, more conservative play-calling and Eli started feeling all these effects. He started watching the pass rush, became impatient in pocket and missing downfield throws too.

Losing Vereen and conservatism of the Offense I think really allowed Defenses to start dictating what was going on and pressuring Eli to make plays. But he isn't that kind of QB and it showed.
RE: Giants were moving the ball pretty well in first few games  
SGMen : 5/20/2017 9:21 am : link
In comment 13477058 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
even though the scoring wasn't that great. They went over 400 yards versus Saints and Redskins, and would have been the same over Cowboys but we hardly had the ball.

Then Vereen went down and that was clearly a direct negative impact for Eli.

Then you started seeing poor performances from the Oline unit, more conservative play-calling and Eli started feeling all these effects. He started watching the pass rush, became impatient in pocket and missing downfield throws too.

Losing Vereen and conservatism of the Offense I think really allowed Defenses to start dictating what was going on and pressuring Eli to make plays. But he isn't that kind of QB and it showed.
It also only took a few games to figure out Cruz couldn't get open anymore AND that our TE's could not block.

Losing Vereen and FB Johnson really hurt last year. We were limited by talent but having these two healthy for the year would have helped Eli a heck of a lot. Injuries suck...it was not to be.
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