KimJones: Flowers kept working didn't go home this offseason

I just hope that the rumors about him not responding well to the coaches instructions are false. Solari has coached up some great offensive linemen during his career and Flowers has loads of talent to mold.

Kimberly Jones (@KimJonesSports)
5/19/17, 2:35 PM
Talking Giants on @nflnetwork's Up To The Minute at 4pm ET

Glad to hear how much Flowers is putting into this season. If he steps up and becomes a quality lineman, that would be a huge boost. Plus he's still got 1 more year plus an option year. That'd be huge from the HR perspective with our top two guys both potentially hitting FA next offseason.

gives reason to hope he will be improved this year.

I've been wondering about the limited chances teams have to coach players. I'm assuming that he's allowed to work out at the Giants training facilities all year. Is he able to work with the coaches voluntarily? I imagine the strength and conditioning coaches give him work outs that he can do on his own, and that he can be given drills to work on by his position coach, but can he actually get feedback and work alongside them throughout the offseason or does the CBA not allow for that?

But it definitely seems like he really wants to improve.. best of luck to him as our season depends on him and the OL...

That the wrap with flowers has NEVER been his work ethic.

It's been his ability to absorb coaching and translating techniques he's learned into the actual game.

Strong sign.

year?

But I hope he shows some improvement this year. If you buy what PFF is selling he said for the umpteenth time, then Flowers actually did play better in 2016 than he did in 2015 (although not by a whole lot). If he can build on that, take another step forward this year, then we can all breathe a little easier.

In comment 13476811 xman said:

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year?

No. two years remaining and the team has a option for an additional 5th year. I think he 'just' turned 23.

even last year his character, desire and work ethic.

Short Video of Kim on the NFLN re Flowers
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13476816 EricJ said:

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even last year his character, desire and work ethic.

Raanan after Week 5.

He needs to master technique. He has the power and long arms to do the job.

In comment 13476815 est1986 said:

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In comment 13476811 xman said: Quote: year? No. two years remaining and the team has a option for an additional 5th year. I think he 'just' turned 23.

To clarify, he is under contract for this year and next. A decision must be made on the 5th year option by next May. If the option is picked up, it currently (likely will go up by next year) is $13mil guaranteed for injury.

In comment 13476817 est1986 said:

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Short Video of Kim on the NFLN re Flowers Link - ( New Window )

Thank you sir, I worship Kim Jones, any chance to gaze upon her countenance is one I relish.

:)

Was criticized on his footwork, and ability to play LT, his first 2-3 years in the league as well. Granted he was never a punisher in the run game, but became a blue chipper, his third year in. We also reached on a RT, who never panned out, but hung around for a couple of years, in same draft, IIRC.

The main gripe with Flowers is his technique is sometimes poor, especially with speed guys which allows those guys to get past him. In short, at times he sucks and doesn't protect Eli's back; which could get Eli.....k i l l e d.

It is great he is aware of the problem and is working hard but he can stay at Giant Stadium 24/7 working out, but Giant coaches [Solari] have very limited time to coach him because of the collective bargaining agreement.

I don't think this offseason he can improve in anything but gain a little quickness by losing a little weight.

Since the Solari can't coach him at this point, hopefully former OT's are working with and teaching him the ropes.

Have read he is in-coachable, hope that report was wrong.

Hope he noticeably improves for this season. Him and Hart.

But if Flowers doesn't improve how long should the Giants wait?

In comment 13476831 Spike13 said:

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Was criticized on his footwork, and ability to play LT, his first 2-3 years in the league as well. Granted he was never a punisher in the run game, but became a blue chipper, his third year in. We also reached on a RT, who never panned out, but hung around for a couple of years, in same draft, IIRC.

Jumbo Elliott started out at RT, but turned playing better when he was switched to LT. Eric Moore was drafted the same year and began as a LT before eventually becoming a starter at Guard.

In comment 13476805 Dan in the Springs said:

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gives reason to hope he will be improved this year. I've been wondering about the limited chances teams have to coach players. I'm assuming that he's allowed to work out at the Giants training facilities all year. Is he able to work with the coaches voluntarily? I imagine the strength and conditioning coaches give him work outs that he can do on his own, and that he can be given drills to work on by his position coach, but can he actually get feedback and work alongside them throughout the offseason or does the CBA not allow for that?

We know an NFL team would never push the envelope with what's allowed, but here's the pertinent section of the CBA on workouts before the start of the offseason program:

Quote:

Prior to the commencement of the Club’s official offseason workout program: (i) players may not receive daily workout payments or workout bonuses of any kind, and may not be paid or reimbursed expenses for travel, board or lodging; (ii) players are not permitted to participate in Club-supervised workouts, Club-supervised practices, group or individual meetings with coaches, group or individual film study with coaches, or group or individual playbook study with coaches; (iii) the Club’s strength and conditioning coaches may not direct players’ individual workouts, but may supervise use of the weight room to prevent injury and to correct misuse of equipment; and (iv) players’ activities may not be directed or supervised by any coaches.

In comment 13476807 huygens20 said:

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That the wrap with flowers has NEVER been his work ethic. It's been his ability to absorb coaching and translating techniques he's learned into the actual game.

Yeah, this is what worries me. He wants to succeed, he works hard, but he hasn't been able to learn better techniques. What he needed wasn't more time in the weight room (though fitter and stronger is good) but time working on footwork and other fine points of his position.

Still has a chance to be a big time player.

In comment 13476875 81_Great_Dane said:

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In comment 13476807 huygens20 said: Quote: That the wrap with flowers has NEVER been his work ethic. It's been his ability to absorb coaching and translating techniques he's learned into the actual game. Yeah, this is what worries me. He wants to succeed, he works hard, but he hasn't been able to learn better techniques. What he needed wasn't more time in the weight room (though fitter and stronger is good) but time working on footwork and other fine points of his position.

How the hell do you know he's not?

Good luck kid!

In comment 13476836 JimNY56 said:

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The main gripe with Flowers is his technique is sometimes poor, especially with speed guys which allows those guys to get past him. In short, at times he sucks and doesn't protect Eli's back; which could get Eli.....k i l l e d. It is great he is aware of the problem and is working hard but he can stay at Giant Stadium 24/7 working out, but Giant coaches [Solari] have very limited time to coach him because of the collective bargaining agreement. I don't think this offseason he can improve in anything but gain a little quickness by losing a little weight. Since the Solari can't coach him at this point, hopefully former OT's are working with and teaching him the ropes. Have read he is in-coachable, hope that report was wrong. Hope he noticeably improves for this season. Him and Hart. But if Flowers doesn't improve how long should the Giants wait?

I think if Flowers doesn't jump up to legitimate, serviceable LT early this year (say 5 to 6 games) you begin to look on the roster to see if someone like a Wheeler, Bisnotway or even Petitgout can play the position and transition during the bye. But Flowers would have to be bad and those guys looking good for that to happen in 2017.

My gut tells me Flowers improves a lot. He may never probowl at OT but I do believe he'd be a beast LG if it came down to that. You hope that Hart improves by a wide margin as well cause that would help immensely as well.

I'll say it one last time, but I've pondered an OL as follows:

Flowers, Fluker, Richburg, Jerry, Pugh. - if Flowers improves and Pugh hugely upgrades RT you could be strong. Fluker can run block and I am really hoping Solari gets him coached up and starter ready. Anyhow, camp is a ways off so we'll see how things go but I think we'll be better this year on the OL than last based on experience of the youth and addition of Fluker. The rookies are harder to judge.

...are his get off and lurchy backpedal. The problem is those may be the least coachable aspects of playing his position and may limit his developmental ceiling at the position. You can't teach being a 'twitchy' athlete and there are limits to what work ethic can do to improve how your body moves and your command of spatial awareness.

LG. Why would anyone flip flop them?

I'd be fine with that.

In comment 13476990 Ivan15 said:

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LG. Why would anyone flip flop them?

I don't think it would be a stretch for Fluker to play LG. It isn't that big of move (right to left) here and Pugh is a better RT than anyone else we have. It is just a thought, a possibility, and we need versatility among our OL's.

However, my theory and thoughts aside, I'm hoping for the best which would be a geling, continuity based OL consisting of: Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Jerry and Hart. Yes, it would be great if Fluker just came in and outright beat out Jerry as he's clearly a better run blocker but his resume isn't all that great so far so much remains to be seen.

In Solari & staff I trust to put together the best bunch they can.

Kid is a beast. Don't forget played 10 games the first year with a bum ankle. Might have had a sophomore slump... but he's putting the time In To get better.

Guys who are "uncoachable" don't hang out all off season in the bubble training. He's probably going to rebound this year. And don't think for a second that he's not also getting coaching.

In comment 13477022 Damon said:

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Kid is a beast. Don't forget played 10 games the first year with a bum ankle. Might have had a sophomore slump... but he's putting the time In To get better. Guys who are "uncoachable" don't hang out all off season in the bubble training. He's probably going to rebound this year. And don't think for a second that he's not also getting coaching.

Absorbing the coaching, working on the techniques Solari teaches, getting into shape. I think Flowers will have a good year. He may not be a probowler but he'll be serviceable.

But he's also immature.
It explains why he doesn't always respond well to coaching (criticism), but also why he working so hard.
And regardless what PFF says - he seemed to play better with a high ankle sprain than he did when he was healthy. That shows pride and determination as well.
I like his chances of improving enough to help the team this season and moving forward

.

"Is this the year that Flowers blooms!!"

In comment 13477054 Marty in Albany said:

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"Is this the year that Flowers blooms!!"

Nicely done. You'll see that in the press soon.

In comment 13477054 Marty in Albany said:

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"Is this the year that Flowers blooms!!"

As long as we don't see "Flowers wilts in the heat," I'll be happy.

Not sure that's the right word for it, but I think he gets frustrated too easily.

Since he's been on the Giants, I can't recall a time where anyone who ever covered this team wrote a practice report that claimed Flowers looked bad or had bad times in camp. Not to say I remember all the articles but I can't recall anything that sticks out. Makes me think he knows what he has to do and shows the coaches that he knows what to do, but when you get to real games, and he finds himself losing the one-on-one plays, he lets it bother him and starts compromising his play out of frustration.

He was too often the bigger, stronger player in any level he played at. Paired with the incident of him getting angry in the face of criticism with the reporter, I wonder if Flowers just doesn't handle adversity well since he's not used to it.

But For him IMO is that he's most Mikey bigger and stronger than anyone he regularly faced until he got to the NFL. Suddenly the holes in his technique and bad habits show up. NFL teams and players find those flaws and exploit them. He's got the talent. He's got to clean up his technique. They only comes w hours and hours of prep. Maybe he doesn't evolve or evolve enough but giving up on a 23 year old is just stupid. This year will tell us a lot

We do know that he was not looking like a Pro Bowler at RT his 1st 2 yrs at SD. However, we really do not know why he was moved inside. This could be strictly an organizational reshuffle or it could have been a give up on him ever being an adequate OT.

As to Flowers, hopefully he is doing more with mechanics, set up in good initial form in pass pro for example, than with regular power lifting.

He's got all the skills, size, and determination you need to make it. Its really about stopping the speed rushers better. With him this is a technique thing, which is good and can be fixed. If it were a lack of speed or quickness then that would be unfixable. The kid is just 23 now. I'm not an expert but I would think that some of this is just the normal maturing of a youngster.

fear is a good motivator. We will also know if he will be relevant for the team moving forward if no improvement is evident. All good, move forward and fail fast if necessary.

It means nothing if you look like Tarzan and play like Jane.....

Until he shows improved "technique" on the field, everything is just speculation....

Congrats to him....he sounds motivated....but can he take criticism from his OL coach and learn from it, to become a better OLman?

If Flowers, Pugh, and Richberg play up to their potential the offense should have a good year.

In comment 13476811 xman said:

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year?

One more year, and an option year.(Giants have to decide)

good to see the young man take his craft seriously...
now that NEEDS to translate on the field this year, dasit.

Or is it just that he clashed with Flaherty? I'm no judge of coaching, but it seems to me that when folks complain about the inability to develop mid-to-late-round OL prospects some of the blame has to be placed on the OL coach, no? Maybe Flaherty just wasn't that good, or simply not the right man for the job when dealing with Ereck Flowers?

We've heard about how Flowers' attitude is less-then-stellar, but who have we heard that from, Justin Pugh? Again, it seems to me that we need to consider the source. Shouldn't Pugh, as the veteran, try to help Flowers instead of badmouthing him? To me, Pugh needs to keep his own house in order if he expects that big payday he's talked about...repeatedly.

As for Flowers not being able to get any coaching while he's up here working out, how do we know that at the end of last season Coach Solari didn't tell him to work on losing weight in the offseason, getting lighter, more nimble, faster, while not losing any strength? The fact is that we don't.

has desire. heart. size and potential but it technique weak, and maybe playing out of position for this offense. Drafting and acquiring players that will fit your teams scheme and personnel is what this league is all about. That why NE is always in contention. Hope McAdoo has those qualities, as Coughlin did in the good old days. Last year was a great start.

Definitely can't accuse the guy of not wanting it. Whether or not it translates at all remains to be seen - but, still a good sign.

In comment 13477135 WillVAB said:

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If Flowers, Pugh, and Richberg play up to their potential the offense should have a good year.

If the big 3 play up to their potential; if Jerry remains very solid in pass protection at least; and, Hart shows solid improvement at RT; and, if TE Ellison blocks like a madman this offense will move the ball quite well. That is asking for a lot BUT it is in the realm of possibilities to happen.

RT/RG Fluker could finally step up and beat out Jerry but given his body of work to date I'm not so sure. I think it more likely Fluker can win RT though I've read he is preferring RG work & a chance to start there. Bisnowaty is a wildcard cause he does have a lot of good college experience and is actually 6 months older than Flowers! Lets win this year!

He is still very young. Hope he improves ... there has to be somewhere on this OL even if it is not LT.

and improved tight end play can only help Flowers.

In comment 13477265 BurlyMan said:

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and improved tight end play can only help Flowers.

If you want to see the impact a great blocking TE can have on your offensive line then just look back at the 2002 season. Dan Campbell was like having another OT out there which allowed Shockey to run more routes than block. Hopefully Rhett Ellison is Campbell and Evans is our Shockey minus the attitude.

In comment 13477227 SGMen said:

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In comment 13477135 WillVAB said: Quote: If Flowers, Pugh, and Richberg play up to their potential the offense should have a good year. If the big 3 play up to their potential; if Jerry remains very solid in pass protection at least; and, Hart shows solid improvement at RT; and, if TE Ellison blocks like a madman this offense will move the ball quite well. That is asking for a lot BUT it is in the realm of possibilities to happen. RT/RG Fluker could finally step up and beat out Jerry but given his body of work to date I'm not so sure. I think it more likely Fluker can win RT though I've read he is preferring RG work & a chance to start there. Bisnowaty is a wildcard cause he does have a lot of good college experience and is actually 6 months older than Flowers! Lets win this year!

If the left side improves individually and presumably collectively, they can work with that. That's independent of Jerry/Hart. If they improve as well, even better.

wanted him to come back after the way he played in 2016...

hopefully it pays off. if he makes even moderate strides this team will be a lot better

In comment 13477653 BlackburnBalledOut said:

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hopefully it pays off. if he makes even moderate strides this team will be a lot better

All we need is "average" NFL, 16th out of 32 starting LT good" - that would be a huge upgrade from last year.

RT or Guard makes this guy all pro down the line. We have a few years to find out.