NFT: KP's brother met with Jax, didn't go well

and a bad season is not going to ruin the development of porzingis, it is new yoek every little thing is blown out of proportion...

he eants melo to stay because melo takes all the pressure off of him...

i would hope next year whem it is him developijg with a bunch of young guys he would be happy..

if he went to phil and told him no rebuild and doesnt want to wait to develop young players, how would you guys feel?

is what he sees in the Knicks organization and locker room. That's a scary thought.

The Knicks may be in the driver's seat now with three years of control, but that's only through age 24. There's an entire career of prime basketball after that, so their leverage isn't as strong as they'd like to think.

I'd love for my team's stars to act like perfect employees. But KP has to do what is best for his career development and there is nothing to suggest in the Knicks track record that the team knows best.

dysfunctional, high turnover seasons early in a career are not potentially career ruining I think ignores history. This isnt a video game or fantasy. Laying down the right foundation is very important.

i dont think phil has done a good job but i want to see what he does once melo is off the team and he can develop young players..

i think hornacek will be a better coach without melo or rose, and just a bunch of young guys...

when you lose with old players their is a feeling of a lot of dissapointment and circus feeling, when you lose with young guys with a future the season is viewed as success...

In comment 13478114 Deej said:

Quote:

dysfunctional, high turnover seasons early in a career are not potentially career ruining I think ignores history. This isnt a video game or fantasy. Laying down the right foundation is very important.

i agree that is why this off season is very important...

In comment 13478101 Deej said:

Quote:

He has representation and he talks to people around the league. But put that aside for a second -- can you possibly deny that this is a chronically, horrifically dysfunctional organization that is an absolutely joke around the NBA? Why should he trust them with his career for one second? Just because they drafted him? If this were any other field he'd quietly quit his job and go to a better employer. He cant do that. Instead he is behind the scenes to influence things. It's not like he went on some press conference rant -- its just that his efforts are leaking. No evidence that his camp is the leaker (and it is unlikely since they dont have a US presence or decades of media contacts). More likely leaker is someone at MSG.

Why should he be allowed to influence anything? He's 21 years-old with no accomplishments. I guess I shouldn't say that. He has 3 Rookie of the Month Awards and was 1st team All-Rookie. That gives him slightly more accomplishments than Landry Fields. He's a guy with a lot of potential who needs to focus on becoming a better player. THAT'S IT. If he wants this to stop being a "chronically, horrifically dysfunctional organization that is an absolutely joke around the NBA", the best way to accomplish that is by getting in better shape, staying healthy, making more shots, grabbing more rebounds, and playing better defense. Those are things he can actually control. Things like Melo's relationship with Phil Jackson and the composition of the coaching staff are things that he can't control, nor should he be able to at this point in his career.

I'm not against NBA players having strong voices in the direction of franchises, coaching staffs, etc. I had zero problem with Melo forcing MDA out. Magic Johnson forced a coach out when he was 22 years-old. MJ had 4 different coaches in 6 years before they found the right guy. My issue wasn't LeBron forcing out Dave Blatt... it was him acting all innocent afterwards. I have a major problem with a guy who hasn't handled his own business dictating the business of others. And to be 100% fair, we don't know for a fact that KP has asked the Knicks to keep or get rid of anyone. All we have is drama and a fair person would admit KP is now creating some of that drama. I just want to see KP become the player we know he can be and focus on that.

is to focus on being the best player he can be, he should do whatever it takes to get traded.

In comment 13478131 PaulBlakeTSU said:

Quote:

is to focus on being the best player he can be, he should do whatever it takes to get traded.

you realize the knicka fiture really is not that bad right?

In comment 13478146 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 13478131 PaulBlakeTSU said: Quote: is to focus on being the best player he can be, he should do whatever it takes to get traded. you realize the knicka fiture really is not that bad right?

Understandably, players don't really get excited about picks and shit like fans do. Philly isn't some hot destination now they have Simmons and the #3 pick coming next season

In comment 13478160 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

In comment 13478146 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 13478131 PaulBlakeTSU said: Quote: is to focus on being the best player he can be, he should do whatever it takes to get traded. you realize the knicka fiture really is not that bad right? Understandably, players don't really get excited about picks and shit like fans do. Philly isn't some hot destination now they have Simmons and the #3 pick coming next season

i wasnt talking about the players, i was talking to paul who seems to think the knicks screwed...

the problem is right npw there is nothing for these writers to write about, so the daily news sees an oppurtunity to sell papers and get clicks so they make everything an extreme problem...

this is isola and bondys schtick, if the knicms and phil gave them.more insight they wouldnt rip them apart, walsh did this and he is loved by the media and he did a horrible job...

future isn't as bleak because they haven't given away draft picks like candy the way they have for a decade. But the organization is still incredibly dysfunctional with an embarrassment for ownership and a GM who publicly insults his team's stars, eschews the current state of basketball efficiency, and is trying to install a system that worked 15-25 years ago when he had 3 of the 12(?) most dominant players to ever play the game and a couple more Top 50 HOFers.

Comparing the Knicks future with their future from years ago is setting a very low bar.

In comment 13478122 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

Quote:

I just want to see KP become the player we know he can be and focus on that.

If he's not getting the support he needs to do that, then he has every right to make himself heard. And why would anyone think, at this point in time, that the Knicks are doing a good job with that?

He looked his best when he was brand new and didn't have a year in the "Knicks system". If they are filling his head with nonsense and trying to make him into a more traditional big, that is their mistake. He isn't that and will never be that. And both Phil and Rambis are on the record as saying he needs to "shoot fewer threes" which is in fact nonsense.

He's not some ignorant high school kid trying to be a punk or attention-seeking. He's been a paid professional, playing for professional teams since 2012. And frankly, he's got more playoff appearances in his career than Phil Jackson, Team President does.

they are saying oh it must mean their relationship is very very strained and they are sticking it to kp...

OR they are close to hiring prigioni and longstaff deal was expired and just decided not to renew it and go with prigioni, OR longstaff decided to go work for scott brooks again...

not everything has to be doom and gloom but it is because the media gets sucker fans to believe everything...

I think the future (next 5 years) is brighter for Cleveland, Boston, Philly, Milwaukee, and Washington.

In comment 13478167 PaulBlakeTSU said:

Quote:

future isn't as bleak because they haven't given away draft picks like candy the way they have for a decade. But the organization is still incredibly dysfunctional with an embarrassment for ownership and a GM who publicly insults his team's stars, eschews the current state of basketball efficiency, and is trying to install a system that worked 15-25 years ago when he had 3 of the 12(?) most dominant players to ever play the game and a couple more Top 50 HOFers. Comparing the Knicks future with their future from years ago is setting a very low bar.

umm it worked 7 years ago when they won back to back championships with gasol kobe and bynum

In comment 13478172 PaulBlakeTSU said:

Quote:

I think the future (next 5 years) is brighter for Cleveland, Boston, Philly, Milwaukee, and Washington.

washington wont get any better..

cleveland depends on how long lebron can keep this up..

philly relies on 2 players who cant stay healthy..

boston is in a conundrum do they build around isiah and horford or do they build around fulz...

milwaukee is the only team with a chance to become a championship team and even then their 2md best player will be coming off 2 acl tearz

In comment 13478168 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

If he's not getting the support he needs to do that, then he has every right to make himself heard. And why would anyone think, at this point in time, that the Knicks are doing a good job with that? He looked his best when he was brand new and didn't have a year in the "Knicks system". If they are filling his head with nonsense and trying to make him into a more traditional big, that is their mistake. He isn't that and will never be that. And both Phil and Rambis are on the record as saying he needs to "shoot fewer threes" which is in fact nonsense. He's not some ignorant high school kid trying to be a punk or attention-seeking. He's been a paid professional, playing for professional teams since 2012. And frankly, he's got more playoff appearances in his career than Phil Jackson, Team President does.

That's simply not true. KP was playing wonderful basketball this season when he got hurt. Consequently, the team was playing really good basketball. When he came back, he didn't play remotely as well. And the team fell apart.

points, shooting oercentage, rebounds and blocks and he got worse?

he needs to get stronger and become a better defender but to say kp got worse this year is completely false

In comment 13478171 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

they are saying oh it must mean their relationship is very very strained and they are sticking it to kp... OR they are close to hiring prigioni and longstaff deal was expired and just decided not to renew it and go with prigioni, OR longstaff decided to go work for scott brooks again... not everything has to be doom and gloom but it is because the media gets sucker fans to believe everything...

You really think this is a case of the media being hard on the Knicks? Longstaff was clearly very close with KP. He wouldn't have him come to Latvia if they weren't and he was going to be the only Knicks coach to work with KP this offseason.

Now they decide to let his contract expire coinciding with the issues with Porzingis? This is a non-story and they just want to hire Priogini? Why not keep Longstaff and hire Pablo as well?

This is just a typical Knicks move. Poorly run organization that never changes.

the system had already been installed for almost a decacde, they had perhaps the second best SG in NBA history, and another HOF big. Plus, teams today are averaging 6 more 3-pt attempts per game than when the Lakers won it. Who knows what it will be five years from now.

You are dismissing all of the upside of those East teams who either have more established pieces than this Knicks team or who have far more upside stars than this Knicks team does.

I would bet on all of those teams being more successful over the next five years than this Knicks team. I'll take the precarious heath of Embiid, with the addition of Simmons, Saric, Anderson, the #3 pick than this Knicks team. I'll take the depth, coaching, organization, and horde of top level picks for the Celtics than this Knicks team. Cleveland and Milwaukee speak for themselves.

i mean come on seriously?

In comment 13478193 PaulBlakeTSU said:

Quote:

the system had already been installed for almost a decacde, they had perhaps the second best SG in NBA history, and another HOF big. Plus, teams today are averaging 6 more 3-pt attempts per game than when the Lakers won it. Who knows what it will be five years from now. You are dismissing all of the upside of those East teams who either have more established pieces than this Knicks team or who have far more upside stars than this Knicks team does. I would bet on all of those teams being more successful over the next five years than this Knicks team. I'll take the precarious heath of Embiid, with the addition of Simmons, Saric, Anderson, the #3 pick than this Knicks team. I'll take the depth, coaching, organization, and horde of top level picks for the Celtics than this Knicks team. Cleveland and Milwaukee speak for themselves.

the knicks just started their rebuild of course they are farther along...

knicks have 3 picks this year, hopefully a couple of more with trades of lee and melo..

cleveland will only be as good as long as lebron stays this good, they are not the future of the east they are the present...

washington is capped out and are going to have to max out porter to keep him, they have no depth, gortat will probably be traded, they are a 2nd round team not a title contender...

In comment 13478179 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 13478172 PaulBlakeTSU said: Quote: I think the future (next 5 years) is brighter for Cleveland, Boston, Philly, Milwaukee, and Washington. washington wont get any better.. cleveland depends on how long lebron can keep this up.. philly relies on 2 players who cant stay healthy.. boston is in a conundrum do they build around isiah and horford or do they build around fulz... milwaukee is the only team with a chance to become a championship team and even then their 2md best player will be coming off 2 acl tearz

Boston isn't in a "cononcdrum". They have two faces, a playoff team and a rebuilding team, both which are ahead of the Knicks.

Simmons can't stay healthy? Really? Or did he just have a single injury which you overreacting to? They also likely have 3 top 5 picks in the next 3 drafts in addition to their own picks. Knicks don't even compare.

Washington may have a hard time getting better but whose to say the Knicks will even be better than them at this rate?

If you are referring to Jabari Parker being their 2nd best player:

1) That is false. Middleton is their second best player. And maker may very well be their 3rd Best asset right now.

2) Is there even a debate about who you would take to build a team with post-Lebron era aside from GF? Davis and KAT certainly have cases but I wouldn't think twice about who it is I would take.

are they going to be a title contender in 2 or 3 years probably not, but to act like they are screwed is laughable..

knicks are finally going to rebuild the right way hopefully, the problem is not the fans, the problem is the media, you can rebuild in new york becuause the media nkt the fans

In comment 13478171 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

they are saying oh it must mean their relationship is very very strained and they are sticking it to kp... OR they are close to hiring prigioni and longstaff deal was expired and just decided not to renew it and go with prigioni, OR longstaff decided to go work for scott brooks again... not everything has to be doom and gloom but it is because the media gets sucker fans to believe everything...

You really think this is a case of the media being hard on the Knicks? Longstaff was clearly very close with KP. He wouldn't have him come to Latvia if they weren't and he was going to be the only Knicks coach to work with KP this offseason.

Now they decide to let his contract expire coinciding with the issues with Porzingis? This is a non-story and they just want to hire Priogini? Why not keep Longstaff and hire Pablo as well?

This is just a typical Knicks move. Poorly run organization that never changes.

will be better each of the next five years than any player on the Knicks right now. They will presumably still have Love and Kyrie, and any other FA star that wants to chase a right with LeBron.

Washington has decisions to make but still has the best player on the floor vis a vis the Knicks.

When the Knicks have shown dysfunction year after year, they don't suddenly get the benefit of the doubt that they will know how to groom and cultivate star talent and build a star-level, championship-caliber team

Will the Knicks improve? Of course. You'd have to actively try to make this team worse in a few years than it is now.

In comment 13478207 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

In comment 13478179 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 13478172 PaulBlakeTSU said: Quote: I think the future (next 5 years) is brighter for Cleveland, Boston, Philly, Milwaukee, and Washington. washington wont get any better.. cleveland depends on how long lebron can keep this up.. philly relies on 2 players who cant stay healthy.. boston is in a conundrum do they build around isiah and horford or do they build around fulz... milwaukee is the only team with a chance to become a championship team and even then their 2md best player will be coming off 2 acl tearz Boston isn't in a "cononcdrum". They have two faces, a playoff team and a rebuilding team, both which are ahead of the Knicks. Simmons can't stay healthy? Really? Or did he just have a single injury which you overreacting to? They also likely have 3 top 5 picks in the next 3 drafts in addition to their own picks. Knicks don't even compare. Washington may have a hard time getting better but whose to say the Knicks will even be better than them at this rate? If you are referring to Jabari Parker being their 2nd best player: 1) That is false. Middleton is their second best player. And maker may very well be their 3rd Best asset right now. 2) Is there even a debate about who you would take to build a team with post-Lebron era aside from GF? Davis and KAT certainly have cases but I wouldn't think twice about who it is I would take.

i said milwaukee has the best chance but they absolutely need parker to regain his form to get there..

if he does they potentially have 4 all star type players on their team and may be able to get an established player to go there..

But if they don't land a "big 3" type player in the next two drafts it's hard to see how they build a cotender. I don't think they'll be dwelling at the top of the lottery past next year.

are poorly run and get unlucky in the next 5-10 years. Those teams are set up really well.

The one thing we've seen is that if you have the best player, you dont necessarily need the best 2, 3, 4. So MILW is in good shape because they have a candidate to be the best player at some point. We've yet to see Simmons or Fultz (and I think Simmons is better). Embiid also have multiple MVP potential, but isnt a great bet to be healthy. Ilgauskus got over his foot problems, but not many others did.

The NBA and it wouldn't make me think much less of Milwaukee. He is a MASSIVE burden to their defense. They had the best record in the East after Parker got hurt and middleton came back. Maker has more potential than Parker. Brogdon looks like he can be a top 15 PG too.

In comment 13478215 PaulBlakeTSU said:

Quote:

will be better each of the next five years than any player on the Knicks right now. They will presumably still have Love and Kyrie, and any other FA star that wants to chase a right with LeBron. Washington has decisions to make but still has the best player on the floor vis a vis the Knicks. When the Knicks have shown dysfunction year after year, they don't suddenly get the benefit of the doubt that they will know how to groom and cultivate star talent and build a star-level, championship-caliber team Will the Knicks improve? Of course. You'd have to actively try to make this team worse in a few years than it is now.

the cavs are capped out and jjst having love and kyrie is not gojng to keep them on this level..they will fall off tremendously and do people forfet how horrible that team was run without lebron?

again with washington yes they have the better players right nos but that does not mean their future is bright, they coukd lose pirter for absolutely nothing and they will get worse...

yiu are confusing future sith present, there are 2 teams in the easy who can build a championship team eith a young core, philly and milwaukee...

In comment 13478222 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

But if they don't land a "big 3" type player in the next two drafts it's hard to see how they build a cotender. I don't think they'll be dwelling at the top of the lottery past next year.

they are going to be bad next year i dont worry about that

Maybe now it's a toss up for me. But I'd certainly take Simmons AND Embiid over KP. Embiid is obviously better than KP when he played in limited time but can't stay healthy, but I'd bet on two potential superstars than one. And philly obviously wins if we are analyzing 2,3, 4 etc. based on Their picks and Holmes.

In comment 13478231 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 13478222 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: But if they don't land a "big 3" type player in the next two drafts it's hard to see how they build a cotender. I don't think they'll be dwelling at the top of the lottery past next year. they are going to be bad next year i dont worry about that

Yes, hence why I said "past next year". If they end up with 2 solid starters but no obvious potential all star their future can get pretty bleak pretty quick. You have Anthony Davis in New Orleans. A star with a bunch of decent starters but nothing else.

In comment 13478235 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

Maybe now it's a toss up for me. But I'd certainly take Simmons AND Embiid over KP. Embiid is obviously better than KP when he played in limited time but can't stay healthy, but I'd bet on two potential superstars than one. And philly obviously wins if we are analyzing 2,3, 4 etc. based on Their picks and Holmes.

phil has the advantage right noe because they have been rebuilding for 5 years already, look at all the picks they have missed on..

saric looks like he can be a stud, simmons is unknown and embiid ca t stay healthy..

knicks need to hit on some picks, simple as that, they got a steal in willy and have hit on kp, got to hit on this pick and 1 of their 2nds would be an added bonus..

hopefully get a first for melo and lee and you can add some youbg talent to kp and willy...

i think baker, kuz and holuday can be young pieces off the bench

In comment 13478239 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

In comment 13478231 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 13478222 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: But if they don't land a "big 3" type player in the next two drafts it's hard to see how they build a cotender. I don't think they'll be dwelling at the top of the lottery past next year. they are going to be bad next year i dont worry about that Yes, hence why I said "past next year". If they end up with 2 solid starters but no obvious potential all star their future can get pretty bleak pretty quick. You have Anthony Davis in New Orleans. A star with a bunch of decent starters but nothing else.

got to be top 2 next year gives you a shot at porter ot doncic..

davis is always hurt and that trade for cousins will screw them especially if holiday loses

Isn't a bleak as it once was, but it's not that great either. They have a potential all star in KP and a potential starter in Willy and the 8th overall pick. Thats it. Anyone counting on Baker/ Kooz or Randle- good luck with that. They are fringe NBA players.

The Cavs and Warriors aren't going anywhere- they aren't old teams. The Celtics and Sixers have better assets and young players right now compared to the Knicks. The Bucks have legit pieces around Giannis- a 2nd team all nba players and a good coach and competent front office.

The Knicks need KP to develop, hit on the 8th pick and get another top pick next year to truly have a chance to contend in the future. Even if those things all work out, they are still years away.

And the Longstaff move was just a stupid/ petty move from Phil to fire a shot at KP.

That's not a good sign for how this team is run. That means phil gave him a lance thomas deal to retain him (likely even more) and Holiday is a replacement level NBA player. Kuz and baker are slightly worse. Those guys aren't any better than your average backups on any other team in the NBA.

phil let longstaff go to stick it to kp? i meam come on really?

In comment 13478249 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

That's not a good sign for how this team is run. That means phil gave him a lance thomas deal to retain him (likely even more) and Holiday is a replacement level NBA player. Kuz and baker are slightly worse. Those guys aren't any better than your average backups on any other team in the NBA.

loke i said young bench pieces, nothing more than that...

i didnt say they were difference makers, i said young bench pieces and thats it

I was referring to pre-cousins Pelicans, which is not much worse than post-cousins Pelicans.

The first 2 years of KP's career he's averaged nearly identical amount of games played as Davis in his career, so not sure why one can be tagged with the "injury" bug and not the other.

My overall point was the Pelicans had 4 solid starters around Davis and so far the best that's happened was getting swept in the first round of the playoffs. Right now we only have one solid young starter (willy). So if we end up with simply a Jrue Holiday and Ryan Anderson-caliber players in the next 2 years (both very solid players) the future will suddenly start looking bleak.

In comment 13478251 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

phil let longstaff go to stick it to kp? i meam come on really?

Why else would he do it given the timing of it? The Knicks couldn't afford to resign him? You can't be that big of a Phil defender come on.

In comment 13478252 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 13478249 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: That's not a good sign for how this team is run. That means phil gave him a lance thomas deal to retain him (likely even more) and Holiday is a replacement level NBA player. Kuz and baker are slightly worse. Those guys aren't any better than your average backups on any other team in the NBA. loke i said young bench pieces, nothing more than that... i didnt say they were difference makers, i said young bench pieces and thats it

Having solid bench players isn't really anything to get excited about. Any team has a few of them. It means jack shit in the playoffs. It's either you have superstars (plural, usually at LEAST two) or you don't.

In comment 13478258 TyreeHelmet said:

Quote:

In comment 13478251 nygiants16 said: Quote: phil let longstaff go to stick it to kp? i meam come on really? Why else would he do it given the timing of it? The Knicks couldn't afford to resign him? You can't be that big of a Phil defender come on.

or he was not a hornacek guy and they are bringing in prigioni and let longstaff go because his contract was up...

could be as simple as longstaff saying i want to go to washington with scott brooks who nrought him into the nba..

not everything is some crazy conspiracy

In comment 13478257 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

I was referring to pre-cousins Pelicans, which is not much worse than post-cousins Pelicans. The first 2 years of KP's career he's averaged nearly identical amount of games played as Davis in his career, so not sure why one can be tagged with the "injury" bug and not the other. My overall point was the Pelicans had 4 solid starters around Davis and so far the best that's happened was getting swept in the first round of the playoffs. Right now we only have one solid young starter (willy). So if we end up with simply a Jrue Holiday and Ryan Anderson-caliber players in the next 2 years (both very solid players) the future will suddenly start looking bleak.

giantsfan i never said this was going to be easy, knicks have a ton of work to do and there is no guarantee of anything...

i am just not going to go around hating the team i root for every second of the day, sorry there is no fun in that, the minute i start thinking that my team has nothing and i go around hating them 24/7 i no longer want to be a fan because that is not fun to me..

i watch sports to get away from life for a couple of hours if that is not fun anymore i am goijg to stop doing it, life is to ahort to view everything doom and gloom...

and i am mot saying i am true fan and people who hate phil are not true fans, everyone is a fan i just viee it differently

So firing the one assistant coach who was close with Porzingis and the only knicks coach scheduled to work out with KP in the offseason has nothing to do with the current beef between KP and Phil Jackson?? Gotcha. I'm sure its to clear space for Pablo Prigioni. Knicks are strapped for cash. Rambis couldn't have been fired for Pablo?

So Phil is allowed to have Rambis on the staff but KP can't have Longstaff? Is Rambis a "Hornacek guy"?

were the reports that the entire offseason training program and organizational structure will be tailored to the triangle. Not surprising, but it's worrisome regarding the draft. Phil already said, "We don't necessarily want guys who can jump out of the gym and get triple-doubles." Actually, that is precisely what we need.

In comment 13478270 TyreeHelmet said:

Quote:

So firing the one assistant coach who was close with Porzingis and the only knicks coach scheduled to work out with KP in the offseason has nothing to do with the current beef between KP and Phil Jackson?? Gotcha. I'm sure its to clear space for Pablo Prigioni. Knicks are strapped for cash. Rambis couldn't have been fired for Pablo? So Phil is allowed to have Rambis on the staff but KP can't have Longstaff? Is Rambis a "Hornacek guy"?

yup phil sat there and said you know what sceew kp hey longstaff your fired haha that will teach kp...

that is asinine...

..

In comment 13478273 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

were the reports that the entire offseason training program and organizational structure will be tailored to the triangle. Not surprising, but it's worrisome regarding the draft. Phil already said, "We don't necessarily want guys who can jump out of the gym and get triple-doubles." Actually, that is precisely what we need.

good, id rather they pick a system and go with it, no more half and half..

the offense is fun to waych when it is run properly