If you could have a do-over in the 2004 NFL Draft would you stick with Eli or - knowing what you know now - would you draft either Ben or Rivers?
Or maybe you take Larry Fitzgerald or Vince Wilfork?
Was talking with a Steelers fan and his family today and they were unequivocally saying that big Ben is the better QB and if the Giants had to do it again, he'd be the guy.
And Rapistburger wouldn't have lasted well here, talent aside
Maybe if the Giants' run overall had been different these past 13 years and the two title runs were less... improbable and more a product of actually being great, I'd choose a do over, but it wasn't and they weren't; it's a total butterfly effect situation and the chance for more consistency isn't worth the significant risk of losing two title runs that were better/more enjoyable than a fan could ever imagine.
Also, the NFC East was consistently a tough division, Teams 1-4, for nearly a decade. The AFC West and the AFC North were always a 2-team race, with at least 4 guaranteed division wins per year.
Also, the NFC East was consistently a tough division, Teams 1-4, for nearly a decade. The AFC West and the AFC North were always a 2-team race, with at least 4 guaranteed division wins per year.
Another person who overrates the NFC East.
This isn't the mid 80's to early 90's.
Do you realize the Bengals have more playoff appearances than the Giants do in the Eli/Big Ben era (since 2004)? 7 to 6. The Ravens have also 7 in this era, and the Steelers have 9. Three SB wins and 4 SB appearances by the division as well as 4 lost conference championships. 8 conference championship appearances in the Eli/Ben era.
NFC East has 3 SB appearances, 2 wins, and 1 additional conference championship loss. 4 conference championship appearances. Even with Cleveland, I'd bet the W/L is probably better in the AFCN.
the AFC North, top to bottom, has been far better than the NFC East in this era.
You sure Ben wouldn't have Kerry Collins' himself out of NY? Getting. Away w rape is a bit easier in Ga and in Pitt. No question about the talent. Yes he's a HOF player but so is Eli. I wanted Ben myself but I have a lot of questions about Ben and how he would. Have handled the NY spotlight
But Eli is still my 1st choice
I do the exact same draft.
He would have imploded in NY.
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Just going for the Looney Tunes joke, not realizing how it would look considering Taylor's untimely demise. I apologize for that.
You should apologize for costing the giants two super titles.
Damn you!
You've revealed my devilishly clever plan to go back in time and rob the Giants of their two most recent Super Bowl titles!
Oh well...back to the Criminal Mastermind drawing board.
I'd do it again. Keep the picks we gave away and get another decent pick from Cleveland.
The only years I'd feel good with Ben on the Giants are probably 08 and 10. Maybe 11 and 16.
Then you have to factor games missed due to injuries -- all of those seasons go down the shitter considering the backup QBs the Giants have had over the same stretch.
If we're re-doing 04 and 05, Vince Wilfork and Aaron Rodgers would be more interesting than Ben.
They have a fantastic team built there, and while he's a good QB, let's not forget the record without him.
I could just end my argument there, but also Eli's commitment to the community around here and the example he sets for the kids/fans. Eli fits the mold of the Giants FO to a T. He doesn't have off the field issues either.
The consecutive games is also underrated here. Ben is oft injured and Steelers have had to resort to mediocre talent at QB at times when they had teams that could made a run at the SB. We've been able to carry an extra player all those years as well with only 2 QB's on the roster.
The '04 QB class is among the best all time - very few years do you have 3 Franchise, Pro Bowl level QBs come out, and all 3 have put up high level of play for years (only Rivers failed to have postseason success, which is likely at least partly due to the Chargers & their ownership, proving Eli right for avoiding SD...).
Plus many people forget how the Steelers have several # 01 and top 5 defenses around him.
Eli has had what, three top ten defenses in his career?
Big difference IMHO.
We have seen many a player wilt with the NYC media, in other sports too, Randy Johnson with the Yankees to name one.
Look at it this way, if Eli was on the Steelers with those defenses he might have four or five rings by now. Not to forget Seattle was hosed in that SB, and an underdog Arizona did the best they could to lose that SB, and they did. Ben's moment to shine in a SB of worth was against the Packers and he failed.
I also think if I am the Chargers, I would have kept Brees, and drafted Larry F. Then you would have had Brees, Fitz, Tomlinson, and Gates! 4 HOFers on that offense. As a football fan, that would have been fun to see!
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with a consistent Top 5 defense every year. That's the only reason Ben has 2 rings. Rivers could've done the same in Pittsburgh.
Also, the NFC East was consistently a tough division, Teams 1-4, for nearly a decade. The AFC West and the AFC North were always a 2-team race, with at least 4 guaranteed division wins per year.
Another person who overrates the NFC East.
This isn't the mid 80's to early 90's.
Do you realize the Bengals have more playoff appearances than the Giants do in the Eli/Big Ben era (since 2004)? 7 to 6. The Ravens have also 7 in this era, and the Steelers have 9. Three SB wins and 4 SB appearances by the division as well as 4 lost conference championships. 8 conference championship appearances in the Eli/Ben era.
NFC East has 3 SB appearances, 2 wins, and 1 additional conference championship loss. 4 conference championship appearances. Even with Cleveland, I'd bet the W/L is probably better in the AFCN.
the AFC North, top to bottom, has been far better than the NFC East in this era.
The Steelers feasted off the likes of Cincinnati and Cleveland during their SB runs up until 2010. During that as span, the Bengals had 2 playoffs appearances sandwiched between a couple of 4-win seasons.
Yes, the Bengals have been a perennial playoff team since 2010 and we have been complete shit since our last SB. It's no wonder they surpassed us.
I think people put too much value into individual picks. Even if we had traded our 2006, 2007, & 2008 three first rounders along with what we gave up for Eli, those three picks turned into Kiwanuka, Ross, and Phillips. It's not like any of those three guys were cornerstone players. Looking back I would have traded those three guys too in order to have Eli over Roethlisberger.
Since 2004 the Steelers have been generally better run...they've been better coached and have drafted better than the Giants have. I think Eli has had less to work with.
Either Rivers or Eli probably would have excelled with the Steelers.
2004 1st in points, 1st in yards
2005 3rd in points, 4th in yards
2006 11th in points, 9th in yards
2007 2nd in points, 1st in yards
2008 1st in points, 1st in yards
2009 12th in points, 5th in yards
2010 1st in points, 2nd in yards
2011 1st in points, 1st in yards
2012 6th in points, 1st in yards
2013 14th in points, 13th in yards
2014 18th in points, 18th in yards
2015 11th in points, 21st in yards
2016 10th in points, 12 in yards
On top of having Bell and Brown which coincides with the offense becoming a more consist, high performer. Before those guys it was mediocre, highest points per game was 9th. The team was always carried by its defense. Funnily enough, it's all we hear about Eli and it can't be any more inaccurate.
Giants defense since 2005 (Eli's real starting year)
2005 14th in points, 24th in yards
2006 24th in points, 25th in yards
2007 17th in points, 7th in yards
2008 5th in points, 5th in yards
2009 30th in points, 13th in yards
2010 17th in points, 7th in yards
2011 25th in points, 27th in yards
2012 12th in points, 31st in yards
2013 18th in points, 8th in yards
2014 22nd in points, 29th in yards
2015 30th in points, 32nd in yards
2016 2nd in points, 10th in yards
Given each guy's temperament, combined with the NY media and Gilbride's offense (not Hufnagle's)...I would bet money on at least one, if not both, flaming out in Eli's situation.
Brees to Fitz for 10+ years
Completely realistic :)
That pick was terrible, but I think the Russell pick was much worse and was more of the reason they were set back for 10 years. I believe that was before the rookie wage cap scale and Russell got paid big bucks to stink. They couldn't give up on him with so much invested.
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In comment 13477923 Klaatu said:
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Just going for the Looney Tunes joke, not realizing how it would look considering Taylor's untimely demise. I apologize for that.
You should apologize for costing the giants two super titles.
Damn you!
You've revealed my devilishly clever plan to go back in time and rob the Giants of their two most recent Super Bowl titles!
Oh well...back to the Criminal Mastermind drawing board.
haha I get the point here with the thread and I like I said I love big ben's game and I do think he'd flourish anywhere but I just think your nuts to toss back two super bowl titles. I could see the Giants winning more games with Ben but failing to win even one super bowl. You just don't know. Giants could have gone 14-2 in 2007 with Ben and lose at home to Dallas or GB. Who the heck knows.
With that in mind, now, I'd have to pick Ben instead of Eli. Yeah, we may not win any Super Bowls, but just think about Ben and Shockey out on the town in NYC. They'd own Page Six.
I was head over heals for Eli in 04. I didn't even have to watch him play or see his abilities. Once I saw the rumors that Eli wanted to play for nyg and didn't want to go to San Diego I was in love. I would have been disappointed with any other player.
Plus Ben misses games where as Eli doesn't. You're right, we can't be sure. PLus we don't watch Ben every week. HE has his flaws too.
How in the world is Ben a sure fire HOFer and Eli is only a "most likely"?
All Time Total Yards
Eli - 8th (should finish the year 6th)
Ben - 10th (IF he avoids injury could finish the year 8th)
Rivers - 12th (should finish the year 10th)
All Time Completions
Eli - 7th (should finish the year 6th)
Ben - 11th (IF he avoids injury could finish the year 8th)
Rivers - 10th (Should finish the year 7th)
All Time TDs
Eli - 7th (Should finish the year 6th)
Ben - 9th (should still be 9th even if healthy)
Rivers - 8th (Should finish the year 7th)
Super Bowl wins and MVPs
Eli - 2 SBs and 2 SB MVPs
Ben - 2 SBs and 0 SB MVPs
Rivers - 0 SBs and 0 SB MVPs
Eli is literally better in every category, but you think Ben is a sure fire HOFer while Eli is not?