2004 NFL Draft - Do Over edition

and keep those extra picks we gave up. Not complaining how it worked out as Ben is a sure fire Hall of Famer and Eli most likely one also. This is a tough call as Eli is so much better a person.

Ben's more physically talented, but I'll take Eli's mental makeup any day of the week.

Big Ben would've been skewered by the press after his "incidents" here...

Hoping to get Matt Schaub in the 2nd.

Would you like to shoot me now, or take me home and shoot me?

and still do. But his tragic death put him out of the conversation, imo - sadly enough. He would have been an all-time great, no question.

Ben handles the media well but how would the off field issues and the injuries have played out?

Eli is the known commodity and brought us 2 championships. So, I stick with Eli.

(If that makes sense), but you take pro bowl QB (if not Cousins-level QB) over HOF WR every single time.

In Gilbride's offense?

ideally after a trade down.

Just going for the Looney Tunes joke, not realizing how it would look considering Taylor's untimely demise. I apologize for that.

Eli, Gallery, Fitz, then the Giants couldn't draft Fitzgerald.

they had the 4th pick.

and to have all 3 still here and playing at a high level is amazing. Hats off to all 3 for having great careers!

I wouldn't. Can you guarantee me the giants win two super bowl titles with Ben? You can't, no matter how good Ben is and I agree he's terrific. You still can't. I know I can guarantee two with Eli.

They wouldn't be as special as Eli's two.

These debates are fun but any giants fan throwing back two is nuts. You don't know how things shake out here with Ben over Eli and like I said I love Ben as a qb. Giants could have more wins and less Super Bowls with ben. What Eli and the giants did was good enough and they aren't done yet.

In comment 13477913 Klaatu said:

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Hoping to get Matt Schaub in the 2nd. Would you like to shoot me now, or take me home and shoot me?

I'd ignore you as assume you were joking.

In comment 13477923 Klaatu said:

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Just going for the Looney Tunes joke, not realizing how it would look considering Taylor's untimely demise. I apologize for that.

You should apologize for costing the giants two super titles.

which is why there is no wrong answer.

maybe the Giants win 3 (or more) super bowls with Ben and they're more special than the ones with Eli which you would never have even known about since they never would have happened.

I still would have preferred that, but who can argue with Eli there?

Big Ben wouldn't have lasted 3 seasons in NYC...

Ben and keep the picks.

For all of Eli's faults, he's given us two absolutely thrilling Super Bowl championships. Wouldn't have traded those for anything.

And Rapistburger wouldn't have lasted well here, talent aside

.

his games played streak makes the difference. Ben has missed far too many games with injuries.

Ben and Rivers are objectively better players than Manning, but Ben's played for a better run team than the Giants that had to win one of their SBs in spite of him (and the team has been so good down there, the back-ups that have played when he's been out have been able to win at a solid-enough clip) and Rivers, before the bottom fell out out there, played on a couple better teams than anything the Giants built and then for comparable teams and couldn't break through for a title.

Maybe if the Giants' run overall had been different these past 13 years and the two title runs were less... improbable and more a product of actually being great, I'd choose a do over, but it wasn't and they weren't; it's a total butterfly effect situation and the chance for more consistency isn't worth the significant risk of losing two title runs that were better/more enjoyable than a fan could ever imagine.

Or trade back - keep in mind that this was before the rookie cap era. Keeping the picks, namely the 2005 first, may have meant passing on at least one of pierce, plax, or McKenzie.

with a consistent Top 5 defense every year. That's the only reason Ben has 2 rings. Rivers could've done the same in Pittsburgh.

Also, the NFC East was consistently a tough division, Teams 1-4, for nearly a decade. The AFC West and the AFC North were always a 2-team race, with at least 4 guaranteed division wins per year.

Rivers is tough to watch with that ephus pith he throws. I'm glad I didn't have to sit through 15 years of looking at that every Sunday. My shoulder hurts just thinking about it. I'm not trusting big Ben to beat Brady twice, he was awful in the first SB he won.

In comment 13477983 SHO'NUFF said:

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with a consistent Top 5 defense every year. That's the only reason Ben has 2 rings. Rivers could've done the same in Pittsburgh. Also, the NFC East was consistently a tough division, Teams 1-4, for nearly a decade. The AFC West and the AFC North were always a 2-team race, with at least 4 guaranteed division wins per year.

Another person who overrates the NFC East.

This isn't the mid 80's to early 90's.

Do you realize the Bengals have more playoff appearances than the Giants do in the Eli/Big Ben era (since 2004)? 7 to 6. The Ravens have also 7 in this era, and the Steelers have 9. Three SB wins and 4 SB appearances by the division as well as 4 lost conference championships. 8 conference championship appearances in the Eli/Ben era.

NFC East has 3 SB appearances, 2 wins, and 1 additional conference championship loss. 4 conference championship appearances. Even with Cleveland, I'd bet the W/L is probably better in the AFCN.

the AFC North, top to bottom, has been far better than the NFC East in this era.

I don't think Rapey Raperstein would've managed to drag as many unwilling women into bathrooms in a city like NY with this many bystanders.

I'm sticking with Eli.

3 franchise QB's and we end up with a 'can't miss' LT that ends up busting. That would be a sore talking point around here for a very long time.

In comment 13477910 Marty866b said:

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and keep those extra picks we gave up. Not complaining how it worked out as Ben is a sure fire Hall of Famer and Eli most likely one also. This is a tough call as Eli is so much better a person.

You sure Ben wouldn't have Kerry Collins' himself out of NY? Getting. Away w rape is a bit easier in Ga and in Pitt. No question about the talent. Yes he's a HOF player but so is Eli. I wanted Ben myself but I have a lot of questions about Ben and how he would. Have handled the NY spotlight

You trade down; take Big Ben; and stockpile a huge assortment of talent. You make a SB run in 2005 to 2008. LOL

we would all have been thrilled with 2 Super Bowls during the Coughlin/Eli era if being offered that in 2004. Also, despite losing the first round pick in 2005, that draft was an excellent haul.

And still draft Rivers and trade for Eli. Especially knowing that Ben is a decent option

But Eli is still my 1st choice

has to factor in life outside of football and I'm guessing Bens career arc in NY is perceived and handled a lot differently than in Pittsburgh.

I do the exact same draft.

just like you can't assume Eli wins in Pittsburgh. The QB selected leads to a whole domino of moves which aren't contemplated in this question.

Ben and Rivers would have never lasted in NY under the severe scrutiny of the media capital of the world. Imho

But NY choose wisely. Ben is a great QB...but a horrid human being. Disliked in the town and locker room.

He would have imploded in NY.

In comment 13477948 djm said:

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In comment 13477923 Klaatu said: Quote: Just going for the Looney Tunes joke, not realizing how it would look considering Taylor's untimely demise. I apologize for that. You should apologize for costing the giants two super titles.

Damn you!

You've revealed my devilishly clever plan to go back in time and rob the Giants of their two most recent Super Bowl titles!

Oh well...back to the Criminal Mastermind drawing board.

I wanted us to trade back a couple of picks with Cleveland and pick Ben then.

I'd do it again. Keep the picks we gave away and get another decent pick from Cleveland.

Third round pick for Drew Brees.

Ben had success early bc he was drafted to a team with an elite defense.

The only years I'd feel good with Ben on the Giants are probably 08 and 10. Maybe 11 and 16.

Then you have to factor games missed due to injuries -- all of those seasons go down the shitter considering the backup QBs the Giants have had over the same stretch.

If we're re-doing 04 and 05, Vince Wilfork and Aaron Rodgers would be more interesting than Ben.

The Steelers defense coming with him? I'll take Eli. Maturity is just one thing about a successful QB. Ben wouldn't have lasted in NY this whole time.

with Eli. Why would I do anything differently?

Have been in many situations without Ben. They had have trouble beating the Ravens without him but they have a 8-2 record against non-Raven teams without Ben. They did lose two in 2016, but look at it: one game was vs. New England, and the other was a finale vs CLE and PIT had nothing to play for. Jones had three TD's.

They have a fantastic team built there, and while he's a good QB, let's not forget the record without him.

and somewhat disappointed. How could you even think twice not to pick Eli with 2 SB's he brought home and consecutive games streak.

I could just end my argument there, but also Eli's commitment to the community around here and the example he sets for the kids/fans. Eli fits the mold of the Giants FO to a T. He doesn't have off the field issues either.

The consecutive games is also underrated here. Ben is oft injured and Steelers have had to resort to mediocre talent at QB at times when they had teams that could made a run at the SB. We've been able to carry an extra player all those years as well with only 2 QB's on the roster.

knowing that we won 2 with Eli, and how he's been a great, high character guy his entire career. Can't be sure we'd have won with Ben, though it seems possible/likely - and it's tempting to think we could have had high level QB play (as good or arguably better than Eli, at least regular season) AND the picks we gave up, though no guarantee of what we would turn those in to. Though we did very well in 2004/2005 (Eli/Snee/G Wilson '04, Webster/Tuck/Jacobs from just a few picks in '05), and those drafts plus '07 really set up our SB teams.

The '04 QB class is among the best all time - very few years do you have 3 Franchise, Pro Bowl level QBs come out, and all 3 have put up high level of play for years (only Rivers failed to have postseason success, which is likely at least partly due to the Chargers & their ownership, proving Eli right for avoiding SD...).

Especially early on, there is little change Ben would have handled the big apple media. He had issues in Pittsburgh, thankfully he got through them.

Plus many people forget how the Steelers have several # 01 and top 5 defenses around him.

Eli has had what, three top ten defenses in his career?
Big difference IMHO.

We have seen many a player wilt with the NYC media, in other sports too, Randy Johnson with the Yankees to name one.

Look at it this way, if Eli was on the Steelers with those defenses he might have four or five rings by now. Not to forget Seattle was hosed in that SB, and an underdog Arizona did the best they could to lose that SB, and they did. Ben's moment to shine in a SB of worth was against the Packers and he failed.

Roethlisberger would be in a cell on Riker's Island right now if the Giants had drafted him.

Two SBs and a class act.