2004 NFL Draft - Do Over edition

I really did like Sean Taylor and think he would have had a HOF or near HOf career. I thought he was that good and his potential was very high.

I also think if I am the Chargers, I would have kept Brees, and drafted Larry F. Then you would have had Brees, Fitz, Tomlinson, and Gates! 4 HOFers on that offense. As a football fan, that would have been fun to see!

with no trade ... just like I said on that day in 2004

In comment 13477989 pjcas18 said:

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In comment 13477983 SHO'NUFF said: Quote: with a consistent Top 5 defense every year. That's the only reason Ben has 2 rings. Rivers could've done the same in Pittsburgh. Also, the NFC East was consistently a tough division, Teams 1-4, for nearly a decade. The AFC West and the AFC North were always a 2-team race, with at least 4 guaranteed division wins per year. Another person who overrates the NFC East. This isn't the mid 80's to early 90's. Do you realize the Bengals have more playoff appearances than the Giants do in the Eli/Big Ben era (since 2004)? 7 to 6. The Ravens have also 7 in this era, and the Steelers have 9. Three SB wins and 4 SB appearances by the division as well as 4 lost conference championships. 8 conference championship appearances in the Eli/Ben era. NFC East has 3 SB appearances, 2 wins, and 1 additional conference championship loss. 4 conference championship appearances. Even with Cleveland, I'd bet the W/L is probably better in the AFCN. the AFC North, top to bottom, has been far better than the NFC East in this era.

The Steelers feasted off the likes of Cincinnati and Cleveland during their SB runs up until 2010. During that as span, the Bengals had 2 playoffs appearances sandwiched between a couple of 4-win seasons.

Yes, the Bengals have been a perennial playoff team since 2010 and we have been complete shit since our last SB. It's no wonder they surpassed us.

Without even considering the possibility that Roethlisberger is a rapist, consider that Eli has started 16 more games than Roethlisberger has despite Roethlisberger starting 6 more games as a rookie.

I think people put too much value into individual picks. Even if we had traded our 2006, 2007, & 2008 three first rounders along with what we gave up for Eli, those three picks turned into Kiwanuka, Ross, and Phillips. It's not like any of those three guys were cornerstone players. Looking back I would have traded those three guys too in order to have Eli over Roethlisberger.

Since 2004 the Steelers have been generally better run...they've been better coached and have drafted better than the Giants have. I think Eli has had less to work with.

Rivers, and could have traded him for Eli.

Either Rivers or Eli probably would have excelled with the Steelers.

Defense since 2004:

2004 1st in points, 1st in yards
2005 3rd in points, 4th in yards
2006 11th in points, 9th in yards
2007 2nd in points, 1st in yards
2008 1st in points, 1st in yards
2009 12th in points, 5th in yards
2010 1st in points, 2nd in yards
2011 1st in points, 1st in yards
2012 6th in points, 1st in yards
2013 14th in points, 13th in yards
2014 18th in points, 18th in yards
2015 11th in points, 21st in yards
2016 10th in points, 12 in yards

On top of having Bell and Brown which coincides with the offense becoming a more consist, high performer. Before those guys it was mediocre, highest points per game was 9th. The team was always carried by its defense. Funnily enough, it's all we hear about Eli and it can't be any more inaccurate.

Giants defense since 2005 (Eli's real starting year)

2005 14th in points, 24th in yards
2006 24th in points, 25th in yards
2007 17th in points, 7th in yards
2008 5th in points, 5th in yards
2009 30th in points, 13th in yards
2010 17th in points, 7th in yards
2011 25th in points, 27th in yards
2012 12th in points, 31st in yards
2013 18th in points, 8th in yards
2014 22nd in points, 29th in yards
2015 30th in points, 32nd in yards
2016 2nd in points, 10th in yards

set the Raiders back a decade

for a young QB. Top defense, run-run-short pass offense, low/mid-level division schedule. Rivers had a stacked team, a simple one-read check down offense and easy division schedule.

Given each guy's temperament, combined with the NY media and Gilbride's offense (not Hufnagle's)...I would bet money on at least one, if not both, flaming out in Eli's situation.

I wheel and deal and see if I can move up one spot to take Fitz and pry Drew Brees from San Diego for a 2nd.

Brees to Fitz for 10+ years

Completely realistic :)

In comment 13478365 spike said:

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set the Raiders back a decade

That pick was terrible, but I think the Russell pick was much worse and was more of the reason they were set back for 10 years. I believe that was before the rookie wage cap scale and Russell got paid big bucks to stink. They couldn't give up on him with so much invested.

In comment 13478067 Klaatu said:

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In comment 13477948 djm said: Quote: In comment 13477923 Klaatu said: Quote: Just going for the Looney Tunes joke, not realizing how it would look considering Taylor's untimely demise. I apologize for that. You should apologize for costing the giants two super titles. Damn you! You've revealed my devilishly clever plan to go back in time and rob the Giants of their two most recent Super Bowl titles! Oh well...back to the Criminal Mastermind drawing board.

haha I get the point here with the thread and I like I said I love big ben's game and I do think he'd flourish anywhere but I just think your nuts to toss back two super bowl titles. I could see the Giants winning more games with Ben but failing to win even one super bowl. You just don't know. Giants could have gone 14-2 in 2007 with Ben and lose at home to Dallas or GB. Who the heck knows.

I didn't say Ben. I said Sean Taylor and Matt Schaub, but that's only because I misread the OP...I didn't see the "knowing what you know now" part, so I just said whom I wanted the Giants to draft in 2004.

With that in mind, now, I'd have to pick Ben instead of Eli. Yeah, we may not win any Super Bowls, but just think about Ben and Shockey out on the town in NYC. They'd own Page Six.

-- Sean Taylor.

I was head over heals for Eli in 04. I didn't even have to watch him play or see his abilities. Once I saw the rumors that Eli wanted to play for nyg and didn't want to go to San Diego I was in love. I would have been disappointed with any other player.

I think Ben's the better QB - but I'm not certain Ben can win Super Bowls in the same manner Eli did. I suspect the team has more regular season success with Ben, but it's all about the rings.

Can one be so sure Ben would have more regular season success since the wins aren't super staggering despite playing with multiple HOF'ers on the offense and a top tier defense for a decade?

In comment 13479079 Toth029 said:

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Can one be so sure Ben would have more regular season success since the wins aren't super staggering despite playing with multiple HOF'ers on the offense and a top tier defense for a decade?

Plus Ben misses games where as Eli doesn't. You're right, we can't be sure. PLus we don't watch Ben every week. HE has his flaws too.

In comment 13477910 Marty866b said:

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and keep those extra picks we gave up. Not complaining how it worked out as Ben is a sure fire Hall of Famer and Eli most likely one also. This is a tough call as Eli is so much better a person.

How in the world is Ben a sure fire HOFer and Eli is only a "most likely"?

All Time Total Yards
Eli - 8th (should finish the year 6th)
Ben - 10th (IF he avoids injury could finish the year 8th)
Rivers - 12th (should finish the year 10th)

All Time Completions
Eli - 7th (should finish the year 6th)
Ben - 11th (IF he avoids injury could finish the year 8th)
Rivers - 10th (Should finish the year 7th)

All Time TDs
Eli - 7th (Should finish the year 6th)
Ben - 9th (should still be 9th even if healthy)
Rivers - 8th (Should finish the year 7th)

Super Bowl wins and MVPs
Eli - 2 SBs and 2 SB MVPs
Ben - 2 SBs and 0 SB MVPs
Rivers - 0 SBs and 0 SB MVPs

Eli is literally better in every category, but you think Ben is a sure fire HOFer while Eli is not?