OL[5]
Eli
OBJ
Marshall
Perkins
Ellison
Engram
EQUALS
Shepard Sitting On Bench
IMO:
Shepard is the 12th man.
RUNNING GAME
Ellison is too valuable not to be in the backfield with Perkins.
1] Creates holes for Perkins.
PASS PLAYS
1] Ellison protects Eli if Flowers or Hart/Flucker have a brain fart.
2] Ellison allows Perkins to go out on pass patterns.
Engram, Perkins, Marshall, OBJ is a certified nightmare for defensive coordinators.
With Engram out there safeties have to protect the middle a bit more opening up more room for OBJ and Marshall because the linebackers can't cover him.
Plus the linebackers have to worry about Perkins underneath!
3] Ellison [bigger guy than Perkins] is pass blocking protecting for Eli.
4] Ellison is available for a last second outlet pass if pass protection holds up by the OL.....[OL holding up PP has same odds as the Jets winning the Super Bowl this season]
.......
Shepard is a good player
But Engram can do everything Shepard can do and more; creates more mismatches!!!
Engram is taller, stronger, and faster!!!
Plus with this lineup the Giants can keep the same players out there 85% of the time, hopefully keeping the defense guessing a little.
& #8203;Having Engram, Ellison [HB] out there with Perkins, Marshall, and OBJ helps both the running game and on pass plays.
I think this is best for the Giants offense, with Eli in the shotgun or under center. [at least until the tackles start protecting Eli better on pass plays]
With this lineup Giant offense becomes more explosive and consistent, just because the defense has to respect four play makers each and every play.
This year the offense is back in the top 10.
Special teams will bounce back some.
And the defense will still be in the top 5.
Going to be a fun year.
Your guess?& #8203;
?
TE Engram will line up all over: inline TE, maybe backfield, Slot and wherever else the staff thinks he'll create mismatches.
But in general, yes, Engram will likely take some snaps from Sterling Shepard.
I will remind you that Shepard had a much better rookie year than Landon Collins did the year before. Think about that. And you think Shepard is the odd man out.
You have to love BBI sometimes.
Will he line up in the slot from time to time? I'm sure.
But I seriously doubt he starts over Sheppard.
What's important about all of this is the different personnel packages we can roll out now.
Sheppard will likely be the odd man out in 12 base formation as Marshall is the better run blocker of the two. Perhaps a reduction in snaps of 10-15% is probable for Shep as Mac changes the formation looks more frequently this year to be less predictable with the offense.
man out" sitting on the bench.
man out" sitting on the bench.
In a 12 base formation package there has to be an "odd man out" at WR and usually it's the teams slot receiver. OBJ and Marshall are the starting outside WRs and will play most of the snaps when the team is in 12 base formation.
I can even see J. Adams in the mix at times.
Now, if you are saying that Shepard will play less snaps....I will agree with that assessment. but he will play closer to his average then zero snaps.
As it relates to the nominal designation of being a starter, Victor Cruz wasn't a "starter" in 2011 (he only started 7 of 16 games). That worked out just fine.
That's a lot of words wasted.
We finally have options.
in a few sentences [not wasted] how is Ellison and Engram going to be used for the most part, especially when they are both out there at the same time?
It will take some snaps from Shepard, but there will also be a lot of sets with no Ellison and 3-4 WR's and/or Engram.
Based on the way Mac has used TE's and the way they are used in GB, it will be unlikely for Ellison to see 40% of the offensive snaps. That's not a knock, it is what gives the offense the ability to create the most mismatches.
I think this is a superbowl team...and alst year I was a distinct minority when I said we were going to have a great defense.
Something special is happening and we're privileged to watch it.
The bug's injection was so strong that I think the very young Hart and Flowers rise to adequate and Fulkner plays to his form two years ago.
Now I'll take a deep breath, refuse an antidote and try to get about my day.
But I do think the Giants go deep into the playoffs.
It would be so much easier if the whole OL stepped up a tad in both run blocking and giving Eli a little more time to throw for longer timed pass patterns. Flowers also protecting Eli's back better is key!
Manning----Ellison
More likely Falcons '13' formation which I believe has 3 inline TE/s and features zone runs, for obvious reasons, and play action. Which, quick hitting zone runs, especially outside zone runs, really make your O tackles jobs easier rather than harder, as compared to what they had to do last year with regards to Flowers and well balanced speed rushers.
Or, a '12' (two inline tight ends) with EE in the slot and Marshal same side ...to run lots of zone as well and also play action, another strong run centric set up that also offers one a huge pile of passes as change ups to choose from.
..........While the inside zone seeks to push a defense vertically, the outside zone seeks to move a defense laterally and pin them to the inside. To accomplish this, the linemen will use a blocking technique known as the "rip and run" to either pin defenders inside (rip) or, if they have not reached their defender by the third step, seek to run the defender to the sideline (run). At the snap, the telltale sign of an outside zone run is the kick step to the sideline the offensive line takes.
It's here where Gibbs makes perhaps his most important coaching points: by the running back's third step, he should be making his determination on where to cut up field based on where the offensive line is holding its blocks.
Gibbs notes that:
On the third step, the running back is either going downhill or taking the ball outside. The reason the decision is made on the third step is the timing of the blocks within the offensive line. On the third step, the offensive linemen make their push on the defenders. The push of the offensive line and the cut of the back must coincide. The back does not know where the cut will be until he gets his third step on the ground. He makes his decision on that step and commits to it. Whatever decision he makes, he lives with it. He does not dodge defenders or double cut with the ball. He takes what the picture says and gets the ball upfield and outside right away......................................yadayadayada''
same source
all the text is from 49erswebzone .com, which has a great piece on Shannys use of multiple tight ends to set up zone runs and therefor 2nd best in league long pass play actions last year.
"OUTSIDE ZONE PLAY-ACTION BOOT
All play-action bootlegs are built around the same principals and are designed to achieve the same goals. Play-action bootleg plays utilize misdirection to confuse defenders, particularly the front seven. They look like running plays, slowing the pass rush and drawing the linebackers close to the line of scrimmage to open passing lanes. The run-action also slows the pass rush, and the movement of the quarterback forces defensive linemen to change their pass-rush angle. Finally, play-action bootlegs usually flood one side of the field with receivers while putting the quarterback in position to execute short, easy throws.
All successful play-action passes are built from running plays and Shanahan will use the outside zone to build his play-action passing game. Later against the Raiders, the Falcons come out in 12 personnel (one running back, two tight ends, 2 receivers) with the tight ends again in a wing alignment. The offensive line still technically blocks like they would on the zone run, being careful not to get too far ahead of the line of scrimmage for risk of drawing an illegal man downfield penalty."
All that is helped with Ellison as the HB.
With Ellison in the backfield he at times can go in motion, but most times he is not.
a] In the backfield if pass protection breaks down from either side, Ellison steps up to save the day. As an inline blocker on a tackle's shoulder he can only assist on one side. IMO As long as the Giants have trouble from both sides of the line [tackles] Ellison is better used in the backfield where he can help both sides due to a tackle brain fart
b] He can lead block for Perkins.
c] Allows Perkins to release into pass patterns immediately or after a delay as another weapon for Eli to throw to because he [Ellison, bigger than Perkins] is protecting Eli if there is a need.
Besides averaging 4.1 yards per rush behind that OL, Perkins last year averaged 10.8 per reception beating Vereen's average of 8.5, so he is a weapon!!!
Perkins average also beat out the TEs, where Tye had a 8.2 average per.
Rather than asking Ellison to read which side the blitz is from, or which tackle got beat, rather than asking your RB to delay and scoot...you run your outside zone runs zip quick like, walk up, snap the ball.....boom, instant hand off:
This -steals the time- the D needs to read run/pass and takes the initiative and puts it squarely into the hands of our sides play caller.
Then, in addition, the best part- the 'misdirection effect' very quick to start run plays 'left zone', force the D to instantly run towards that side, and give the QB space and freedom to the other side on play actions.
Then, finally, Shanny had league leading numbers last year.
I see the Giants using a lot of two TE sets this year with both Ellison & Engram on the field. That would translate to less 3 WR sets, of course, but that doesn't mean Sterling won't get his fair share of opportunities. It will depend upon matchups and such.
For example, a team's nickel corner may be out due to injury. You'd certainly want to attack there. Or a team's best nickel cover LB or nickel safety is out you'd attack with Engram more I'd think.
It is all about matchups and with our diverse weapons we should have more production. On paper, this is McAdoo's best offense and if we aren't top 10 this year in yards AND scoring it will only be because of injuries and/or our OL just still sucks beyond measure. I think our oL steps up. Injuries no one can truly predict.
whereas, asking our OL to sit on heels and read/react (a nasty word in these parts) to onrushing defensive players, lead us into a fairly anemic O last year, or at least, a very fickle one.
Obviously Mac will still use a heavy dose of 11 base personnel (1RB, 1TE and 3WR), but this team needs diversity in the way it attacks defenses, more 12 and 13 personnel base formations will go a long way to accomplishing that and Engram will be a key component to it.
Make Flowers and Hart better?
in addition, you may find that we have roster players that suit the Shanny way better as tackles, allowing young Flowers and Hart to play guard, I really won't try to pretend to know the answer, but outside zone runs with a TE on each side may suit:
EE/Pugh/Flowers/Rich\Hart\Biz\EL
or some variation therefor (also makes your interior bigger) wheras your TE/OT quad may move more, less pulling guards, more OT in space stuff.
I could have that wrong, but, the idea is that on some plays the TEs simply make the OT job easier, and on others you ask your OTs to move in space. This allows your guards and center to stay in the interior and hit people from the sides.
Ouch in this case.
Shepard, Vereen, JAdams and Gallman have to be in the mix significantly enough to NOT have a 90% same 11 lineup like last year.
Stay ahead of opponents just like BB does. Our East opponents added DE to get to Eli and our pass potential; the above 4 could make enough variations on a theme that Eli can more easily audible into that by mid 2nd qtr, DCs will be just guessing the and hoping for the best.
Will he line up in the slot from time to time? I'm sure.
But I seriously doubt he starts over Sheppard.
What's important about all of this is the different personnel packages we can roll out now.
it negates nothing. engram is a mismatch where ever/whenever he lines up. pushing 240 pounds with more speed than AJ Green, who's matching up with that?
3 cone: Engram
20 yard shuttle: Engram
broad jump: Engram
that ... plus 6'3 235 or 5'10 195? the potential for 2 TE looks that can motion into a 3WR formation vs lining up 3WR like 99% of last year.
as soon as engram adapts to the NFL, there is very little reason to play Shepard outside of 4WR / breathers for Odell/Marshall scenarios.
this is a lovely problem to have. maybe engram lines up outside to keep Marshall fresh, with Shepard in the slot ... but I expect his snaps to nosedive this year.
Marshall Shepard Ellison-[OL] Engram Beckham ... Eli in shotgun
Ellison gives Eli time to find Shepard underneath if somehow Marshall/Odell/Engram are all covered - an unlikely scenario
Not 11 personel 95% of the time
We might have the chance at being unpredictable now.
Yay!
He might split wide now and then, but he is a TE, he isn't going to replace Shepard in the slot.
Once you bastards get something into your heads you run it into the ground.
This.....
These practices are to see what people can do... period. If Webb was in there, would the thread be about how Eli lost his starting job?
but the thread title meant Shepard's amount of plays would be reduced way way down.
Engram is a better version of Shepard.
Engram can do everything Shep can do; he is taller, stronger, and if that wasn't enough ...........f a s t e r
Not a knock on Shepard, just a fact.
Primary reason for the FB in this offense is to run block. If he can't do it, then they need to find someone that can. I'm not sold on an HB, but maybe Ellison could change my mind?! Keep in mind also that Mac made a comment about not knowing what an HB is and so I would think, reading between the lines, that he also is not sold on that idea.
but the thread title meant Shepard's amount of plays would be reduced way way down.
Engram is a better version of Shepard.
Engram can do everything Shep can do; he is taller, stronger, and if that wasn't enough ...........f a s t e r
Not a knock on Shepard, just a fact.
Saying Engram is better than Shepard at this point is silly. We would like to believe he is going to be...but at this point that is purely a hope.
You are going to see guys come in and out in different packages. Depth is a good thing and will keep opposing defenses on edge.
the guy who was signed last year to help the ran game by being in the backfield blocking [think he was a free agent who was released by the Steelers] was a TE/HB but was hurt in the preseason and was on the IR all year. Giants I think released him a couple months ago. Giants/McAdoo was going to use him as a HB and TE.
Shepard, Vereen, JAdams and Gallman have to be in the mix significantly enough to NOT have a 90% same 11 lineup like last year.
Stay ahead of opponents just like BB does. Our East opponents added DE to get to Eli and our pass potential; the above 4 could make enough variations on a theme that Eli can more easily audible into that by mid 2nd qtr, DCs will be just guessing the and hoping for the best.
I will remind you that Shepard had a much better rookie year than Landon Collins did the year before. Think about that. And you think Shepard is the odd man out.
You have to love BBI sometimes.
Eh, it's not that far-fetched. Engram really might be a much better TE than Shepard is a WR.
Quote:
and you want him to sit the bench? Really?
I will remind you that Shepard had a much better rookie year than Landon Collins did the year before. Think about that. And you think Shepard is the odd man out.
You have to love BBI sometimes.
Eh, it's not that far-fetched. Engram really might be a much better TE than Shepard is a WR.
He will also be used in two TE formations. I think Giants will also use him as a blocker on passing downs and then slip him out into the flat. I expect him to have about 30 receptions next year.
However, Shepherd is most definitely not sitting to give Ellison snaps.
He might split wide now and then, but he is a TE, he isn't going to replace Shepard in the slot.
Once you bastards get something into your heads you run it into the ground.
us bastards also know simple math, which suggests if the giants run more 2 TE looks, its likely going to mean less 3WR sets.
the 2 TE look, with 1 of them having Engram's skillset, also allows for a much more versatile passing attack.
there is no way, following Marshall's signing and Engram's selection, that Shepard will see the field as much.
[I like Shepard]
I do not think they paid Ellison to sit. He can cover up a lot of the OL deficiencies.
BB manages to get all of his good players into the game plan, and it doesn't seem to matter what their positions are---that's great coaching...let's hope that MAC is capable of that.
This whole who is the odd man out debate makes no sense.
This isn't the first time the Giants have had lots of offensive options. It's worked before. There will be enough plays for everyone to get involved.