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NFT: "Numerous fatalities" in Manchester explosion

DanMetroMan : 5/22/2017 7:00 pm
At Ariande Grande concert
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crap  
feelflows : 5/22/2017 9:14 pm : link
RIP

let's hope that those injured are not serious.
I wonder if this attack does not happen if Trump did not go to Riyad  
32_Razor : 5/22/2017 9:15 pm : link
and Israel?
Suicide bombers and attacks at concerts with little girls  
bhill410 : 5/22/2017 9:17 pm : link
In Manchester was never really the forte of the IRA. Generally speaking it was usually in London or at military targets in Belfast/Derry.
RE: I wonder if this attack does not happen if Trump did not go to Riyad  
BigBlueShock : 5/22/2017 9:18 pm : link
In comment 13478855 32_Razor said:
Quote:
and Israel?

Wtf?
The Trump comment I heard of Fox a few minutes ago. just repeating it  
32_Razor : 5/22/2017 9:20 pm : link
Trump is over there now?
I agree  
Bill2 : 5/22/2017 9:20 pm : link
If he had only showed up at Riyadh the outcome would have been even more different
RE: CNN:  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/22/2017 9:44 pm : link
In comment 13478764 well...bye TC said:
Quote:
Explosion occurred just outside the arena. Thatwould explain why getting a bomb inside wasnt an issue


I hadn't heard this... this makes more sense. I heard that the bomb was inside, but towards an exit bottleneck. Getting a bomb inside an event like this made no sense at all.

RIP to the victims and those injured.
RE: RE: I wonder if this attack does not happen if Trump did not go to Riyad  
section125 : 5/22/2017 9:59 pm : link
In comment 13478861 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13478855 32_Razor said:


Quote:


and Israel?


Wtf?


Truly .... WTF.
England is screwed unless BREXIT makes some major immigration changes  
giant24 : 5/22/2017 10:19 pm : link
Today there are 2,900,000 Muslims living in Britain, including Scotland and North Ireland - about 5% of the population. (www.theguardian.com)

- The Muslim population is multiplying 75% every 10 years.

The demographic model widely reported in the mainstream press reveals:

- By 2021, Britains Muslim population will reach about 4,900,000.

- By 2031, 8,600,000

- By 2041 15,000,000

- By 2051, nearly 26,000,000 (www.thecommentator.com)

From the British non-Muslim population, its birthrate is 2.1 per female - below the replacement level. In other words, the real numbers of non-Muslims will shrink.

It is estimated that in 2051 there will be a total of 77,000,000 British citizens. The respected Commentator newspaper concludes that if immigration policies continue as they arethen the Muslim population projection of 26 million by the year 2051 can be rationally defended.

So by the middle of this century, a third of the population will be Muslim

Other troubling signs in England:
Sharia courts administering Islamic justice in Britain are run by clerics who believe some offenders should have their hands chopped off, according to Muslim scholar Elham Manea. She described the prevailing attitude as "totalitarian" and as more backward than some parts of Pakistan.

Teaching children fundamental British values is an act of "cultural supremacism," according to the National Union of Teachers, which wants to replace the concept with one that includes "international rights."

More than 100,000 British Muslims sympathize with suicide bombers and people who commit other terrorist acts, according to a 615-page survey.

Only one in three British Muslims (34%) would contact the police if they believed that somebody close to them had become involved with radical Islam. In addition, 23% of British Muslims said Islamic Sharia law should replace British law in areas with large Muslim populations.

Belmarsh maximum-security prison in London has become "like a jihadi training camp," according to testimony from a former inmate. The government was accused of burying a report on prison extremism. The report warned that staff have been reluctant to tackle Islamist behavior for fear of being labelled "racist."

Residents in Manchester received leaflets in their mailboxes, from a Muslim group called "Public Purity," calling for a public ban on dogs.

Voter fraud has been deliberately overlooked in Muslim communities because of "political correctness," according to a government report.
I'm shocked...  
Dunedin81 : 5/22/2017 10:21 pm : link
That 100,000 people filled out a 615 page survey.
RE: I'm shocked...  
giant24 : 5/22/2017 10:31 pm : link
In comment 13478945 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
That 100,000 people filled out a 615 page survey.


Link below. 615 pages of survey data, looks pretty scientific and unbiased to me.

"Full data from the ICM Unlimited survey Channel 4 programme What Muslims really think can be found by clicking on the link below.

The link provides full access to three (merged) documents, in order:

Full sample of Muslims
National representative control sample
Summary top line.
The summary top line compares findings from the Muslims sample and the control sample of a nationally representative sample of all GB adults, which permits easy comparison of responses to questions that were asked of both samples (questions only asked of Muslims are not included in the top line).

The programme, presented by Trevor Phillips, will be broadcast on Channel 4 at 10pm on Wednesday 13th April 2016."
CM Muslims survey for Channel 4 | 11th April 2016 - ( New Window )
.  
Bill2 : 5/22/2017 10:41 pm : link
What is the biggest distortion introduced by any opinion seeking survey of human beings?
RE: .  
Sarcastic Sam : 5/22/2017 10:44 pm : link
In comment 13478969 Bill2 said:
Quote:
What is the biggest distortion introduced by any opinion seeking survey of human beings?


Not by US bias?
RE: RE: I'm shocked...  
Mad Mike : 5/22/2017 10:57 pm : link
In comment 13478960 giant24 said:
Quote:
looks pretty scientific and unbiased to me.

Don't ever change.
RE: RE: RE: I'm shocked...  
giant24 : 5/22/2017 11:04 pm : link
In comment 13478985 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 13478960 giant24 said:


Quote:


looks pretty scientific and unbiased to me.



Don't ever change.


Here's another article from the liberal Huffington Post with similar statistics. Point is the more Muslims the more radical and fundamental Muslims.
The Islamization of Great Britain - ( New Window )
RE: RE:  
capone : 5/22/2017 11:11 pm : link
In comment 13478845 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 13478822 capone said:


Quote:


you never know it may not be the religion of peace this time - if so the media will be thrilled


You really are a stain.


If your brother in law died in 911 you would have a different perspective you douche
I feel horrible for the victims many  
giant24 : 5/22/2017 11:14 pm : link
of whom would be my 16 and 21 year old daughters who enjoy Grande's music but I also feel bad for Arianna Grande herself who just tweeted:

broken.
from the bottom of my heart, i am so so sorry. i don't have words.

Not a fan but that's a lot on a 23 year old.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Well it will clean up the problems in the middle east faster  
Mike in Marin : 5/22/2017 11:29 pm : link
In comment 13478842 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13478774 Mike in Marin said:


Quote:


In comment 13478754 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13478728 Mike in Marin said:


Quote:


In comment 13478716 River said:


Quote:


with the British helping out.



It will have to get a lot worse in the UK and apparently in France, Sweden, Germany, Belgium and Italy, before anyone does much more than just go after networks and perpetrators.

The radicalization in the mosques and the stuff coming out of the mouths of the religious leaders in these countries, is toxic. Meanwhile, they are passing laws to limit and arrest people over the free speech of people criticizing the ideology behind terrorism as "Islamophobia."

One only needs to look at what happened after Charlie Hebdo to see what it will take for people to wake up.


Mike, you should weigh in on football topics. It is, after all, a football message board. It would be a shame if you only had a political stance (especially on such a hot-button topic) to stand on.



I suggest you stick to football topics and not read threads on current events and terrorism if you don't expect to see some posts somewhat political (or religious) related.


Since your recent history includes zero football contributions, I feel fine about my footing... on a football message board.


So glad you are monitoring what I am posting or only reading. Been on this site for well over 20 years. Thanks for weighing in Comrade Stalin.
I've been quoting the Pew Research studies for years.  
Mike in Marin : 5/22/2017 11:33 pm : link
A lot of people in the west have a hard time believing that people who kill people and themselves for God's will, actually believe what the doctrine says.

Unless it's an abortion doctor killing. Then it's obviously due to the interpretation of God's will in another text (that is also full of horrible ideas, but nothing compared to the Quran).
And all this is no surprise at all  
Mike in Marin : 5/22/2017 11:37 pm : link
we've made the Palestinians heroes of the left for their freedom fighting murder, regardless of any balanced moral judgements, and we've rewarded them financially as well.

Now the same ideology is causing serious problems in Europe. Good thing for the Atlantic Ocean....for now.

We are too nice and politically correct for some of our cultures and people to survive given the current trends.
yet our country had a hissy fit over a proposed 90 day  
gtt350 : 5/22/2017 11:39 pm : link
screening ban to vet. not such a bad idea after all
RE: RE: RE:  
Mr. Bungle : 5/22/2017 11:58 pm : link
In comment 13478992 capone said:
Quote:
In comment 13478845 Mr. Bungle said:


Quote:


In comment 13478822 capone said:


Quote:


you never know it may not be the religion of peace this time - if so the media will be thrilled


You really are a stain.



If your brother in law died in 911 you would have a different perspective you douche

No I wouldn't.

You remain a stain.
RE: Religion of peace strikes again  
Mr. Bungle : 5/23/2017 12:00 am : link
In comment 13478823 Bockman said:
Quote:
I hope we can stop offending them so that they'll stop blowing themselves up!!!

smh

Are we going to get your hot take on the Muslim doctors and medical staff working through the night to help the injured?

How about the Muslim cabbies offering free rides to help people connect with loved ones?

I doubt it.
RE: yet our country had a hissy fit over a proposed 90 day  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/23/2017 12:02 am : link
In comment 13479008 gtt350 said:
Quote:
screening ban to vet. not such a bad idea after all


Vetting for people entering this country already exists. Especially from troubled regions. Anyone suggesting that this hasn't been the case for quite some time is not handing out good information. There is a reason that this country has maintained a mostly clean sheet against terrorism at home since '01, and it's due to the everyday hard work of people keeping it that way.
true Hammer, but the proposed 90 day ban on the syrian  
gtt350 : 5/23/2017 12:06 am : link
refugees to be vetted set off a nation wide protest. i'll say no more
RE: true Hammer, but the proposed 90 day ban on the syrian  
madgiantscow009 : 5/23/2017 12:08 am : link
In comment 13479021 gtt350 said:
Quote:
refugees to be vetted set off a nation wide protest. i'll say no more


*economic migrants
RE: RE: yet our country had a hissy fit over a proposed 90 day  
giant24 : 5/23/2017 12:38 am : link
In comment 13479020 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13479008 gtt350 said:


Quote:


screening ban to vet. not such a bad idea after all



Vetting for people entering this country already exists. Especially from troubled regions. Anyone suggesting that this hasn't been the case for quite some time is not handing out good information. There is a reason that this country has maintained a mostly clean sheet against terrorism at home since '01, and it's due to the everyday hard work of people keeping it that way.


I totally agree with you that our law enforcement, military, intelligence agencies are doing great work but even with their great work this site lists over 60 Islamic related terror attacks in the US since 9/11/2001. People use these arguments that terrorism isnt that pervase, more people are killed by random shootings, cars, bathtub accidents etc. but none of those causes of death have the enormous amounts of resources like those stated above, literally tens of thousands of people and billions and billions of dollars devoted to stop one thing - Islamic terrorism. Could you imagine how many terrorist attacks would occur if the US didnt have this Herculean effort?

Unfortunately for the peace loving, reformed Muslims you have this problem:

"As the Muslim population increases in the United States, so too will the number of Islamic terror attacks. This is because the pool from which the radicals recruit grows bigger. Studies show that between 5 - 25% of Muslims in America believe that violence in defense of Islam is justified. The number of potential terrorists therefore grows proportionately with the overall number, even if only a small minority actually plot terror.

Immigrants to America have killed and have plotted to kill. However, the real threat comes from successive generations of Muslims living in the West, which have proven to be more radical and more dangerous than their parents. Muslim immigration thus means that more Americans will eventually die."
Islamic Terror on American Soil - ( New Window )
This is getting into places that a mod would probably shut down  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/23/2017 12:45 am : link
my point is only to state that there is in fact a ton of effort put into security when it comes to bringing in foreign nationals. It may have been a heated topic during the election, but it was inaccurately portrayed as if the US has an open door/honor system policy. The reality is very much not this.
RE: This is getting into places that a mod would probably shut down  
giant24 : 5/23/2017 12:53 am : link
In comment 13479027 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
my point is only to state that there is in fact a ton of effort put into security when it comes to bringing in foreign nationals. It may have been a heated topic during the election, but it was inaccurately portrayed as if the US has an open door/honor system policy. The reality is very much not this.


"Terrorists only need to be right once; we need to be right every single time".President Bush

Thats the problem, as good as our people are and as thorough as our vetting process may be it only takes a few mistakes/oversites/deception and it results in dead Americans. And as stated above its just math that the more Muslim immigrants brought into the country the more terrorism will occur even if only 5% have radical views. Is it worth the risk?
Immigrant families lose their native identification  
Vanzetti : 5/23/2017 3:23 am : link
as they move from generation to generation. My nephews grew up in California and they don't identify as Italian at all. And they are Italian on both sides--third and fourth generation.

A study showed young Jews living out West do not really have any identification with Israel. That was unheard of when I was growing up in Brooklyn.

NY is such an immigrant city that people don't realize the rest of the country is not like that. The next generation of Muslims will not have a strong identification with religion. They will think of themselves as Americans first and foremost.

Persecuting them or singling them out is the best way to get them NOT to identify as Americans and become a diaspora, holding onto to religious instead of a national identity.

Best way to defeat terrorism longterm is to treat the causes not the symptoms.

RE: Immigrant families lose their native identification  
madgiantscow009 : 5/23/2017 3:50 am : link
In comment 13479043 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
as they move from generation to generation. My nephews grew up in California and they don't identify as Italian at all. And they are Italian on both sides--third and fourth generation.

A study showed young Jews living out West do not really have any identification with Israel. That was unheard of when I was growing up in Brooklyn.

NY is such an immigrant city that people don't realize the rest of the country is not like that. The next generation of Muslims will not have a strong identification with religion. They will think of themselves as Americans first and foremost.

Persecuting them or singling them out is the best way to get them NOT to identify as Americans and become a diaspora, holding onto to religious instead of a national identity.

Best way to defeat terrorism longterm is to treat the causes not the symptoms.


the cause is Islam and the symptom is terrorism. The Quran is build around jihad and forbids revision such as a new testament since it is the unaltered word of Allah.

the mass immigration into places like the UK causes pockets of people who do not assimilate and instead adopt their religious and cultural identity (sharia law) to their new home--which is encouraged by the EU.

Persecuting them or singling them out is not the best way, but getting them to assimilate would be---which is impossible when flooding a country.

RE: This is getting into places that a mod would probably shut down  
MetsAreBack : 5/23/2017 4:16 am : link
In comment 13479027 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
my point is only to state that there is in fact a ton of effort put into security when it comes to bringing in foreign nationals. It may have been a heated topic during the election, but it was inaccurately portrayed as if the US has an open door/honor system policy. The reality is very much not this.


That's fair. But its also fair that you to acknowledge that the "Muslim ban" was in fact a 90-day ban initially against 7 highest risk Arab countries (Iraq was later retracted), while still honoring pre-existing visas and green cards.

Obviously the media and rights groups twisted as much more far-reaching than this.

The reality is we know who the enemy is. There are more practical and common sense ways to fight this war than what we currently do for politically correctness reasons. Trump's approach was hasty, over-reaching and clumsy, no doubt, but the spirit of it was on the right track.
Prayers to the victims and their families  
buford : 5/23/2017 6:25 am : link
this is getting way to common and it's only going to get worse if we don't wake up.
RE: RE: Immigrant families lose their native identification  
EricJ : 5/23/2017 7:50 am : link
In comment 13479048 madgiantscow009 said:
Quote:


the cause is Islam and the symptom is terrorism. The Quran is build around jihad and forbids revision such as a new testament since it is the unaltered word of Allah.

the mass immigration into places like the UK causes pockets of people who do not assimilate and instead adopt their religious and cultural identity (sharia law) to their new home--which is encouraged by the EU.

Persecuting them or singling them out is not the best way, but getting them to assimilate would be---which is impossible when flooding a country.

This problem is only going to get worse. Many people say the people responsible are just "radicals" as if there are only a handful of them. There are millions of these radicals. Tens of millions. The other thing is that the radicals in the Muslim world are the ones who have the power, hold political offices and control their military. This is no different than what we faced with the Nazi's. This religion also = law in those countries. Their mission is to squash the western world. They will tell you if you care to listen that they want to populate the western countries and then take over. They do not want to assimilate.

Unfortunately it absolutely IS the religion that is the problem and we will one day end up with a true Muslim ban. You will see one of the European countries do it first because their situation will become more dire before ours does.
bunch of pussies trying to use the peaceful name of islam as their  
GMAN4LIFE : 5/23/2017 8:26 am : link
front

Using any religion as your base to commit such fucking stupid acts means they are full of shit. Fuck them and their mothers for conceiving them.

I hope soon they will go meet their makers soon and let them judge them.

Fucking cowards
RE: What has CNN reported?  
Ron Johnson 30 : 5/23/2017 8:49 am : link
In comment 13478760 section125 said:
Quote:
They are generally noteably wrong.


That's a false statement, "noteably wrong"
RE: RE: RE:  
Ron Johnson 30 : 5/23/2017 8:52 am : link
In comment 13478992 capone said:
Quote:
In comment 13478845 Mr. Bungle said:


Quote:


In comment 13478822 capone said:


Quote:


you never know it may not be the religion of peace this time - if so the media will be thrilled


You really are a stain.



If your brother in law died in 911 you would have a different perspective you douche


No, I wouldn't and neither do many others who lost loved ones. It's a sad excuse for bigotry. You honor no one.
RE: Prayers to the victims and their families  
Ron Johnson 30 : 5/23/2017 8:52 am : link
In comment 13479055 buford said:
Quote:
this is getting way to common and it's only going to get worse if we don't wake up.


I don't believe the data supports that claim
RE: This is getting into places that a mod would probably shut down  
Ron Johnson 30 : 5/23/2017 8:55 am : link
In comment 13479027 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
my point is only to state that there is in fact a ton of effort put into security when it comes to bringing in foreign nationals. It may have been a heated topic during the election, but it was inaccurately portrayed as if the US has an open door/honor system policy. The reality is very much not this.


But they were "pouring in" after the first ban was struck down.
RE: bunch of pussies trying to use the peaceful name of islam as their  
Ron Johnson 30 : 5/23/2017 8:56 am : link
In comment 13479133 GMAN4LIFE said:
Quote:
front

Using any religion as your base to commit such fucking stupid acts means they are full of shit. Fuck them and their mothers for conceiving them.

I hope soon they will go meet their makers soon and let them judge them.

Fucking cowards


+1
More horror...  
trueblueinpw : 5/23/2017 9:00 am : link
In case anyone's interested, Sam Harris has a well reasoned and intelligent take on the matter of radical islam. His podcast is called Waking Up, on iTunes or google it.
RE: Immigrant families lose their native identification  
njm : 5/23/2017 9:04 am : link
In comment 13479043 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
as they move from generation to generation. My nephews grew up in California and they don't identify as Italian at all. And they are Italian on both sides--third and fourth generation.

A study showed young Jews living out West do not really have any identification with Israel. That was unheard of when I was growing up in Brooklyn.

NY is such an immigrant city that people don't realize the rest of the country is not like that. The next generation of Muslims will not have a strong identification with religion. They will think of themselves as Americans first and foremost.

Persecuting them or singling them out is the best way to get them NOT to identify as Americans and become a diaspora, holding onto to religious instead of a national identity.

Best way to defeat terrorism longterm is to treat the causes not the symptoms.


While that certainly is more the case here than in Europe, you are not getting the same degree of assimilation as in generations past. The ease of travel back to their country of origin as well as some segments of society advocating that they NOT assimilate, that assimilation is cultural fascism (hyperbole conceded) and the ability to function in this country without speaking English makes things different than before.
I think we are making progress  
Ron Johnson 30 : 5/23/2017 9:06 am : link
The current US policy has been very effective. We've prevented attacks and isolated the bad guys. There is no quick fix.
.  
Anakim : 5/23/2017 9:24 am : link
NBC News‏Verified account @NBCNews
BREAKING: Suspected Manchester bomber identified as 22-year-old Salmon Ramadan Abedi, according to official, @PeteWilliamsNBC reports
Back on topic  
Shecky : 5/23/2017 9:29 am : link
Heard on radio during ride that since it was a concert that so many younger teens attend, basically any parent was able to enter the building to come get their kids with not nearly the same security scrutiny they would have at the beginning of the concert. So assuming the attacker walked into the lobby as the parents did.

Horrible incident, hoping for the best for those injured and RIP to those who didn't survive.
RE: .  
njm : 5/23/2017 9:30 am : link
In comment 13479201 Anakim said:
Quote:
NBC NewsVerified account @NBCNews
BREAKING: Suspected Manchester bomber identified as 22-year-old Salmon Ramadan Abedi, according to official, @PeteWilliamsNBC reports


That settles it. Definitely IRA.
RE: More horror...  
Sean : 5/23/2017 9:32 am : link
In comment 13479175 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
In case anyone's interested, Sam Harris has a well reasoned and intelligent take on the matter of radical islam. His podcast is called Waking Up, on iTunes or google it.


Sam Harris does an excellent job on this topic.
This is interesting  
Greg from LI : 5/23/2017 9:50 am : link
NYT reporter looks at the ISIS declaration claiming responsibility for the bombing and notices something unusual - while a suicide bomber has been assumed, the ISIS statement says nothing about anyone martyring themselves. She wonders if the bomber is in fact still alive and at large.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Immigrant families lose their native identification  
jcn56 : 5/23/2017 10:01 am : link
In comment 13479043 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
as they move from generation to generation. My nephews grew up in California and they don't identify as Italian at all. And they are Italian on both sides--third and fourth generation.

A study showed young Jews living out West do not really have any identification with Israel. That was unheard of when I was growing up in Brooklyn.

NY is such an immigrant city that people don't realize the rest of the country is not like that. The next generation of Muslims will not have a strong identification with religion. They will think of themselves as Americans first and foremost.

Persecuting them or singling them out is the best way to get them NOT to identify as Americans and become a diaspora, holding onto to religious instead of a national identity.

Best way to defeat terrorism longterm is to treat the causes not the symptoms.


You need a plane ticket to Detroit, stat. What you've said is exactly 0% applicable to the Muslim community there, and it's sizable.
RE: RE: Immigrant families lose their native identification  
EricJ : 5/23/2017 10:11 am : link
In comment 13479260 jcn56 said:
Quote:

You need a plane ticket to Detroit, stat. What you've said is exactly 0% applicable to the Muslim community there, and it's sizable.


Exactly! Some people are just reading the wrong shit that is passed around on Facebook I guess. Send him to Detroit like you said. More specifically...Dearborn MI. Just go to youtube and type "Muslim Dearborn" and just watch. Here is one for you...
Dearborn MI - ( New Window )
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