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Candidates: Tom Coughlin (102-90, .531, 2 titles), Jim Lee Howell (53-27-4, .663, 1 title), Bill Parcells (77-49-1, .610, 2 titles) The best: Coughlin, and send your cards and letters now. Maybe it is recency bias, but Coughlin’s two titles were so unexpected and launched the Giants into an unprecedented sphere of modern NFL excellence. Parcells coached the best Blue team of all, in 1986, and that counts for something. This debate could last to infinity. |
I suggest you look back at the 1985 season... the losses from that season were terrible... especially the two to Dallas. 1987 was a disaster for Parcells. 1988 and 1989... the losses to the Eagles...the playoff loss to the Rams. I could go on.
Parcells was amazing. But lets not forget his teams choked quite a bit too. And he also had Belichick on his staff.
Can't blame Parcells for 1987. The Giants made a decision NOT to prepare for a lockout and stay loyal to their players. Other teams didn't care.
Now, the Flipper Anderson game? THAT is a different story. Parcells once admitted that was the worst in game coaching job he ever did.
In those days it was a different game with different rules. It was a smaller League with fewer teams; a smaller team with fewer coaches and teeny tiny salaries for the players. So the "apples and oranges" comparisons really apply.
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Huh? They both had 2 SB wins. Using your criteria, it would be a tie.
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in football is winning the Super Bowl. How many rings have coaches won during their employment with the Giants? TC wins.
Huh? They both had 2 SB wins. Using your criteria, it would be a tie.
TC was the receivers coach under Parcells. TC has 3 SB rings under his Giants employment. Parcells only has 2.
In those days it was a different game with different rules. It was a smaller League with fewer teams; a smaller team with fewer coaches and teeny tiny salaries for the players. So the "apples and oranges" comparisons really apply. Link - ( New Window )
He also won his title with 2 of the greatest coaches to ever pace an NFL sideline as his coordinators. Sorry, he doesn't belong in the same conversation with BP and TC.
TC was the receivers coach under Parcells. TC has 3 SB rings under his Giants employment. Parcells only has 2.
Ah, yes, forgot that TC was a member of that staff! The first time I've seen a WR coach get credit for a SB win.
Wow. You are bad at math. RC was employed with the Giants for XXI and XXV. Try and read the conditions I set forth. I didn't specify overall SB rings with every franchise. Obviously Lil Bill would be the greatest.
I suggest you look back at the 1985 season... the losses from that season were terrible... especially the two to Dallas. 1987 was a disaster for Parcells. 1988 and 1989... the losses to the Eagles...the playoff loss to the Rams. I could go on.
Parcells was amazing. But lets not forget his teams choked quite a bit too. And he also had Belichick on his staff.
I'm sure you're right, Eric. Thankfully, while all of those losses left open wounds, I've managed to forget many of them. (Not the Flipper Anderson game, mind you. That actually led directly to the breaking off of my engagement to the woman I eventually married, 27 years ago... but I digress. Ugh...)
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TC was the receivers coach under Parcells. TC has 3 SB rings under his Giants employment. Parcells only has 2.
Ah, yes, forgot that TC was a member of that staff! The first time I've seen a WR coach get credit for a SB win.
I thought the discussion was about coaching. Certainly, the staff coaches get to share in the credit.
That's true. He/the Giants were pissed that the scab games counted. I heard that personally from LT and Banks when they came to Merrill Lynch for the annual United Way autograph session that year. It was right after the strike ended. I followed them out into the elevator so I didn't have to wait on line. LT signed the picture, Banks wouldn't sign his, said I would just go sell it, so he signed th back of LT's. I still have it.
I asked LT about Bill. He said "he's bein' a dick."
You could say the same about Parcells, but I only remember SF games and possibly Buffalo.
I think of the Coughlin teams as a scrappy team that could turn it on in the playoffs, while Parcells had a dominating team top to bottom. Does that mean he's better? Not sure.
TC beat the best team ever in the Super Bowl...and then beat them again.
But, let's not give it short shrift here, Belichick is HUGE in the overall equation..
Granted it was a different era (before free agency and the salary cap), but Parcells never had to repeatedly fire his coordinators and repeatedly end the season on extensive losing streaks after starting the year 5-2 or 6-2. And the Parcells teams that went to the Super Bowl didn't need to do it via the wild card.
The 2011 Giants actually won the division by beating Dallas week 17.
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Parcels coached pre free agent era. They Giants had great talent and kept it. Felt that team underachieved from 87 thru 89.
Coughin had the best talent in the league for two seasons 07,08. His two championships were great. But there was some bad regular season football.
Two great coaches: 1A. 1 B. For me I guess Parcells is 1A
While I bleed Blue like most... I think this statement is pretty bold..."Coughin had the best talent in the league for two seasons 07,08." Yes we beat the 18-0 Pats in SBXVII... but I would think you might get some push-back regarding this claim. We were a six (6) seed in 07. Yes, I know we won the championship... do you really believe our roster was the most talented in the NFL in 07?
I am fairly certain they were the 5 seed in 2007.
As pointed out above, the level of competition was greater for Parcells. That said, Parcells' teams didn't have to be road warriors in the playoffs (other than the San Fran game in 1990). And contrary to what some remember, Parcells' teams had some quirky problems (they lost many devastating games that had huge playoff implications in bizarre, painful fashion, had issues dealing with Buddy Ryan). I also can't forgive the way he left.
The 1990 playoff run was amazing, but the two best I saw were 2007 and 2011 - maybe in all of sports. I never thought I'd see 2007 again, but 2011 came darn close.
The knock on Coughlin is the way he finished here. And much of that was on him.
100% agreement with Eric here.
151 wins, 100 losses, 17 ties (.595)
NFL Playoff Season Record:
10 wins, 2 losses (.833)
NFL Overall Record:
161 wins, 102 losses, 17 ties (.605)
Notable Wins: As a player, in 1927, was captain of the Giants team that outscored opponents 197–20, went 11–1–1 and won the NFL title.
As Head Coach: was in the Championship game eight times, winning two (first against the 13-0 Bears (1934..winning 30-13), in the famous "sneakers" game, then beat the Packers (1938...23-17).
Coached one team (NY) TWENTY THREE YEARS!!! (1930-1953). Yeah, it wasn't the modern era, but he should be part of any conversation as far as great Giant Head Coaches!
Actually, in this case, the right answer is Belichick..:)
What was wrong with the players Parcells had in 1985, 1987, 1988 and 1989? Four years, one measly wild-card win. I know '87 was a strike year, but that team came out flat in September, even before the strike. The '88 and '89 teams came up small when it mattered most.
Was that, regardless of how the season was going, regardless of how the game was going, or any drive or situation.
The D came out wanting to wreck the plans of the team in front of them.
A game within a game that they seemed to live for over and above the money, their families, the seasons prospects ...or anything....just so much damn fun to fuck up a Joe Montana's or a Theisman's or whomevers frigging day.
That's the attitude.
Bill left because George Young wouldn't give him a say in who was drafted...and because he was in great demand TC stayed because he wasn't in great demand, was on the verge of getting fired & had to change his coaching demeanor Two great coaches, extremely different personalities My pick Parcells 1A; TC 1B
He DID have a say. He just wanted the final say.
Parcells had a lot of bravado that made him both successful and sometimes too selfish. But I always liked him more...
What are you, eight years old? It's a business.
Many fans and media questioned whether Coughlin should be fired. Other than his first season, I have never heard that fans or media were calling for Parcells to be fired. Near universal agreement that he was the right coach.
After Parcells left, a 13-3 team went 8-8. After TC left, a 6-10 team went 11-5.
Not close imo.
Overtime he found he ways to leap here and there.
The loss to the Jets combined with the Niners losing to the rams on purpose knocking us out of the playoffs was painful.
Did not turn on a radio, tv, or read a paper for two weeks.
TC was true blue. He has his moments good and bad, and didn't want to leave us.
BP ego was bigger than his waistline, as was his lack of loyalty to us. Thus allowing TC to leap him for me anyway.
BP has not won a title without little Bill, nor TC on his last title / staff either ...
Yes he ran into salary cap woes as did George Young and many others because the old guard did not get it.
BP did make teams better, also with owners who were willing to spend and not get in the way and think small. Which is a big assist too.
Still winning to me TC vs trumps BP. Plus he did cause some havoc and battle the Giants way.
Its not stupid to ponder in a round table conversation.
Again and fwiw, he had Belichick. That's huge