Curious as to thoughts on this...
In summary:
-Student records sexual encounter with a 16 year old girl.
-Student allegedly shares this recording with his friends and classmates
-Girl in recording catches wind of this and tells school administration.
-Admin calls student that made the video into principal's office, with school resource officer present and questions student.
-Resource officer tells student that he could be charged with possession of child pornography.
-Admin and Resource Officer call student's mother on Speakerphone and explain the situation. Officer tells mother that they can likely take care of this without charges.
-Students is sent to wait outside the office for his mother to get there.
-Student leaves campus and jumps off a building.
-Grief stricken parents are going to file a massive lawsuit against the school and police department for driving their son to suicide.
Obviously a horrible situation all around. Just curious as to whether anybody thinks they have a legitimate case.
Article and details here:
Chicago Tribune: School disciplinary incident ends with a Naperville teen's suicide: 'They scared him to death' - (
New Window )
Back to the situation. If this kid didn't commit suicide then what would be the proper course of action?
But if that's the case, where do you draw the line in school?
Back to the situation. If this kid didn't commit suicide then what would be the proper course of action?
Not saying that the school is at fault for his death, but I'm sure the response to this tragic incident stems from their heavy handed "scare tactics" without the minor's parents present.
But if that's the case, where do you draw the line in school?
I beg to differ. I think we know it all too well. But how can you close Pandora's box? When you put powerful technology in a child's hand, no amount of teaching and lecturing is going to stop them.
In this case, the parents seemed to do everything right (at least according to them) about warning of the dangers of cell phones and technology, especially when it came to sex. The teen didn't heed the warning.
This, and all of the situations like it, should serve as a warning to all parents everywhere.
Not saying that the school is at fault for his death, but I'm sure the response to this tragic incident stems from their heavy handed "scare tactics" without the minor's parents present.
What if the kid got caught with a bag of weed? Can the officer not tell him that he's being charged with possession without his parents present?
Could have fooled me.
I think when you share the images is where that comes into play.
If somebody shows you a video of a 16 year old, that's child pornography.
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talking to the child about potential for being charged with possession of child pornography was the best approach or even legal, especially since you're talking about charges being filed without a minor's parents (or lawyer present).
Not saying that the school is at fault for his death, but I'm sure the response to this tragic incident stems from their heavy handed "scare tactics" without the minor's parents present.
What if the kid got caught with a bag of weed? Can the officer not tell him that he's being charged with possession without his parents present?
I think there's a huge difference between telling someone they'll be charged for a possession as opposed to telling him that he may be charged with child porn. It's like comparing apples to grenades.
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his death or to say his death isn't tragic. Neither is the goal.
Could have fooled me.
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Do enough to educate students about the use of cell phones, social media, etc. We talk about bullying but I dont think the students, parents, school employees really know the law when it comes to these issues.
I beg to differ. I think we know it all too well. But how can you close Pandora's box? When you put powerful technology in a child's hand, no amount of teaching and lecturing is going to stop them.
In this case, the parents seemed to do everything right (at least according to them) about warning of the dangers of cell phones and technology, especially when it came to sex. The teen didn't heed the warning.
This, and all of the situations like it, should serve as a warning to all parents everywhere.
I doubt the kid knew the law, then was told about the law, and then committed suicide. I bet this kid was just being an ignorant kid. Obviously some scared him enough to commit suicide.
Maybe you are informed but I work in education and, trust me, these kids have no idea as do the adults. They think they know.
The told him by law he could be charged. That's a lecture, sounds like to me. They also told the mother, on speakerphone in the presence of the student, that this could be taken care of as a minor thing that would not affect his future.
No matter. The implication of telling a teen that he may be charged with possession of child porn is so different from telling him that he may be charged with possession of weed is the difference of why this situation was wholly unique and potentially far more explosive.
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what the student was in possession of, fits the description of the crime.
No matter. The implication of telling a teen that he may be charged with possession of child porn is so different from telling him that he may be charged with possession of weed is the difference of why this situation was wholly unique and potentially far more explosive.
It is a slippery slope to require a parent or attorney present for every criminal infraction that happens in school, before you can question a student.
Where do you draw the line?
What this boy did is far worse. First, it appears he recorded without the girl's knowledge or consent. Second, his sharing that recording goes well beyond locker room bragging, which can be damaging in and of itself. This can have lasting mental and emotional effects on the girl.
Think about how up in arms so many people were about Trump's comments not being typical locker room talk. Now, think of this, which was more damaging and far more personal, in my opinion.
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In comment 13479680 RC02XX said:
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talking to the child about potential for being charged with possession of child pornography was the best approach or even legal, especially since you're talking about charges being filed without a minor's parents (or lawyer present).
Not saying that the school is at fault for his death, but I'm sure the response to this tragic incident stems from their heavy handed "scare tactics" without the minor's parents present.
What if the kid got caught with a bag of weed? Can the officer not tell him that he's being charged with possession without his parents present?
I think there's a huge difference between telling someone they'll be charged for a possession as opposed to telling him that he may be charged with child porn. It's like comparing apples to grenades.
Does it matter when the apparent issue (at least to me) is that they were discussing a criminal charge without parents/lawyer? He could be charged with stealing a used eraser from a classroom, but aren't the parents simply accusing them of approaching the kid first?
I'm asking because I genuinely do not know. I don't think the school is at fault but I am not aware of the correct procedures of going about reporting a minor committing a crime.
I'm neither a teacher, parent, nor psychologist, but none of that adds up as responsible.
Agreed. A family member was a victim of some video that got out. The school never contacted the parents. The parents were fuckin' livid and went in to see the AP. The first question asked was, "Why wasn't I contacted?" That was followed up by the AP with, "I was busy." The cops were called and they were pissed at how the situation was handled. The cop went knocking on the doors of the two people that took the video. He said that those two people could be labeled as sex offenders even though they were only in middle school. I have no idea how true that is but that is coming from the police officer's mouth.
How is that relevant to this lawsuit or your original question? Stay on topic before you start going off on a tangent just to somehow bolster your case.
What we would think if the girl killed herself because of this video is not really part of this conversation or was part of it until just now.
The death of this boy and what should or shouldn't have been done by the school staff and police is the topic.
I'm neither a teacher, parent, nor psychologist, but none of that adds up as responsible.
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after finding out the video was shared?
How is that relevant to this lawsuit or your original question? Stay on topic before you start going off on a tangent just to somehow bolster your case.
What we would think if the girl killed herself because of this video is not really part of this conversation or was part of it until just now.
The death of this boy and what should or shouldn't have been done by the school staff and police is the topic.
It was in response to Greg's multiple posts about how teenagers shouldn't be charged with that sort of crime for sharing pictures.
It was a direct counterpoint to his post, not overall.
I get your point but you are arguing against the law. This has more to do with law makers than those enforcing the law.
The video was so dark that all they could make out was mainly audible.
Where do you draw the line?
Hmmm...common sense approach doesn't appeal to you?
Tell a child (and yes, he's a child) that he may have to spend the rest of his life as a sex offender (and the worst kind in the eyes of the public) and you expect somehow it to go smoothly? This isn't just any accusation that's being levied on an impressionable child. How do you not see the difference?
Seriously, sometimes your back must hurt bad the way you bend over backwards to rationalize any stupid shit that a school does.
Now, with the video, that is another story. He not only recorded her without her knowledge, but shared it with others. I'm not sure what the charges should be, but it is not an innocent or victimless crime.
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Thanks for the recap, Britt. I do think there's a case there, though admittedly this is just my initial reaction and haven't mulled it over. But yeah, my first thought is, you just told an impressionable young mind that he is in danger of suffering perhaps the most humiliating criminal charge imaginable, one that I think most doesn't fit the bill, given the specifics. Then you leave him alone in a room with nothing but his thoughts.
I'm neither a teacher, parent, nor psychologist, but none of that adds up as responsible.
Why doesn't it fit the bill?Please don't diminish what he did.
Matt.. coincidently just addressed that above. Saying that he isn't guilty of possession of "child pornography" is not congruous with minimizing his offense. It's simply accurately defining it (at least what I believe to be accurate).
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The stigma and tangible deleterious effects of conviction on sex charges are so enormous as to render the punishment far out of proportion to the crime.
I get your point but you are arguing against the law. This has more to do with law makers than those enforcing the law.
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On what planet is a 16 year old making a video with another 16 year old "child pornography." Illegal due to the lack of consent? Absolutely. But child pornography? For a girl that, for all we know, may have actually been weeks or months older? That would be an obscenely inappropriate charge.
I agree. But, as I have said, certainly some charges were warranted.
Not disputing that, but that's not what's in question. The debate is whether or not the school (or law enforcement) is liable in his death for threatening him with said child pornography charge and then leaving him alone. Even if you one does believe he was guilty of a child pornography offense, the school's liability could (and should) certainly be brought into question due to their delivery of that news and then lack of supervision.
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In comment 13479718 Greg from LI said:
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The stigma and tangible deleterious effects of conviction on sex charges are so enormous as to render the punishment far out of proportion to the crime.
I get your point but you are arguing against the law. This has more to do with law makers than those enforcing the law.
not really. The application of the statutory rape laws are very sexist. When you have two consenting teens and one set of parents doesn't approve, how often is the girl charged vs. the boy? It is almost exclusively the boy that's charged. That is pure BS.
No idea but I am not going to pretend I know the data on that.
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On what planet is a 16 year old making a video with another 16 year old "child pornography." Illegal due to the lack of consent? Absolutely. But child pornography? For a girl that, for all we know, may have actually been weeks or months older? That would be an obscenely inappropriate charge.
I agree. But, as I have said, certainly some charges were warranted.
I agree that some level of charges were warranted, and even if it happened to be child pornography, you don't tell a child without his parents or lawyer present that he may be charged with that. Then leave him alone? Shit, for this teen, his life was essentially over in his mind since he's going to be a registered sex offender now tied to child porn. And as a child without true foresight and maturity, I'm sure his thought was might as well end it now.