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NFT: Knicks Mock Offseason

Jon in NYC : 5/24/2017 4:37 am
I can't sleep, so here we are.

1. Draft Frank Ntilikina, Tony Bradley, Dwayne Bacon

2. 3 way trade:

LAC Gets Carmelo Anthony
Minnesota Gets Kyle OQuinn, Jamal Crawford, 2020 1st from LAC
NYK Gets Ricky Rubio, Austin Rivers, 2022 1st from LAC

3. Knicks Sign PJ Tucker: 3 years, 40M

Roster Next Season:

C. Willy/Noah/Bradley
PF. KP/Lance
SF: Tucker/Kuz/Bacon
SG: Lee/Rivers
PG: Rubio/Frank/Baker

With Rubio and Tucker, it's a completely different defensive team with a new mentality. Tucker's contract expires with Lee, Rivers and Noah in 3 years, and the Knicks will have a strong young core at that point with plenty of money to spend. In the meantime, we have a fiercely competitive squad that's fun to root for and will play hard every night. KP becomes the focal point, go to scorer, and face of the franchise.
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You'd probably need to trade a 2nd rounder  
giantsfan44ab : 5/24/2017 2:13 pm : link
to GET RID of Lance Thomas.
RE: You'd probably need to trade a 2nd rounder  
Anakim : 5/24/2017 2:14 pm : link
In comment 13480865 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
to GET RID of Lance Thomas.


I'd do that
I thought J Simmons was 25  
giantsfan44ab : 5/24/2017 2:19 pm : link
Wouldn't be a fan of a $70M deal but I'd take Simmons at $18M a year well over Tucker at $13M a year without much debate. What makes Tucker anymore of a "culture" guy than Simmons? Shooting %s and advanced stats are similar.
Kawhi Leonard  
giantsfan44ab : 5/24/2017 2:23 pm : link
Danny Green and Manu Ginobili are some pretty big reasons Simmons hasn't received more minutes.
RE: Kawhi Leonard  
Deej : 5/24/2017 2:31 pm : link
In comment 13480883 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
Danny Green and Manu Ginobili are some pretty big reasons Simmons hasn't received more minutes.


Danny Green is a very average player. Being blocked by Danny Green's 27 mpg is not an excuse for a guy who you're talking about giving 18 million per season to.

Manu is 39. His stats suggest 5th starter or 6/7 man. Amazing for his age. But Im not giving much credit to Simmons for being blocked by Manu. Manu isnt the 24 PER, .250 WS48 player of his youth.
RE: RE: Kawhi Leonard  
giantsfan44ab : 5/24/2017 2:39 pm : link
In comment 13480898 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13480883 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


Danny Green and Manu Ginobili are some pretty big reasons Simmons hasn't received more minutes.



Danny Green is a very average player. Being blocked by Danny Green's 27 mpg is not an excuse for a guy who you're talking about giving 18 million per season to.

Manu is 39. His stats suggest 5th starter or 6/7 man. Amazing for his age. But Im not giving much credit to Simmons for being blocked by Manu. Manu isnt the 24 PER, .250 WS48 player of his youth.


So you'd give a few mil less to a more limited player 5 years older?

Again, I'm talking about everything in comparison to the proposed PJ Tucker deal. Nothing else. Shows how horrible such a deal to Tucker would be.
RE: I thought J Simmons was 25  
TyreeHelmet : 5/24/2017 2:41 pm : link
In comment 13480877 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
Wouldn't be a fan of a $70M deal but I'd take Simmons at $18M a year well over Tucker at $13M a year without much debate. What makes Tucker anymore of a "culture" guy than Simmons? Shooting %s and advanced stats are similar.


Turning 28 in September. The Knicks should be trying to develop/find the next Simmons instead of overpaying for him. I really hope they sit out free agency this year outside of taking some fliers on high upside guys. 18m a year or 13 a year for Tucker are not smart moves, especially for the Knicks.
RE: I'd much rather give Simmons  
giantsfan44ab : 5/24/2017 2:42 pm : link
In comment 13480427 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
4 years $70M than tucker that much. Gimme someone that can contribute when KP/Willy/#8 enter their prime.


My idea of giving $70M to Simmons was all in relation to this Tucker deal. Nothing more, nothing less.
RE: RE: I thought J Simmons was 25  
giantsfan44ab : 5/24/2017 2:44 pm : link
In comment 13480912 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 13480877 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


Wouldn't be a fan of a $70M deal but I'd take Simmons at $18M a year well over Tucker at $13M a year without much debate. What makes Tucker anymore of a "culture" guy than Simmons? Shooting %s and advanced stats are similar.



Turning 28 in September. The Knicks should be trying to develop/find the next Simmons instead of overpaying for him. I really hope they sit out free agency this year outside of taking some fliers on high upside guys. 18m a year or 13 a year for Tucker are not smart moves, especially for the Knicks.


This is my preferred option 1A for this offseason. Sign Sergio to a 1 year deal. Maybe snatch Clark or James Young on a small-ish deal if possible. Get Sullinger, Withey or Willie Reed on a 1 year deal.
I'd replace Sullinger  
Pep22 : 5/24/2017 3:15 pm : link
w/ Muscala and Jerekbo as undervalued players (perhaps not a great fit for NYK)
RE: I'd replace Sullinger  
giantsfan44ab : 5/24/2017 3:19 pm : link
In comment 13480956 Pep22 said:
Quote:
w/ Muscala and Jerekbo as undervalued players (perhaps not a
great fit for NYK)


Muscala Even better, can actually shoot 3s. Just any of those types of guys that'll take short deals or team options.
RE: RE: I'd much rather give Simmons  
Jon in NYC : 5/24/2017 3:33 pm : link
In comment 13480913 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13480427 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


4 years $70M than tucker that much. Gimme someone that can contribute when KP/Willy/#8 enter their prime.



My idea of giving $70M to Simmons was all in relation to this Tucker deal. Nothing more, nothing less.


Giving an inferior player 2x money seems like a bad move.
RE: RE: RE: I'd much rather give Simmons  
giantsfan44ab : 5/24/2017 3:43 pm : link
In comment 13480984 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13480913 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


In comment 13480427 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


4 years $70M than tucker that much. Gimme someone that can contribute when KP/Willy/#8 enter their prime.



My idea of giving $70M to Simmons was all in relation to this Tucker deal. Nothing more, nothing less.



Giving an inferior player 2x money seems like a bad move.


Don't know how he's tangibly inferior but I'll go with it.

I'll still take a lesser player that's 4 years younger, one that will contribute positively when KP is ~25 than one that will ruin our draft status now and be a cap stain and useless when KP is hitting his peak.

My preferred route? Sign neither, stick with 1-2 year deals, nab a top pick next year, go after legit FAs with a clear cap in 2018.
Giants44  
Pep22 : 5/24/2017 4:04 pm : link
Your wish to suck for 1-2 years is....realistically, the best path (PJ would be gone, wouldn't be locked into too many undesirable contracts).

But on the other hand, my other hope just to watch a team that is reasonably competitive i.e. with 10 games left, we're talking about playoffs, even an 8 seed and not 8th draft slot.

Obviously the (unrealistic) hope for something as far fetched as a .500 season runs counter to what I led with. Ahh the dismal existence of being a NYK fan.
Vying for the 8th seed  
giantsfan44ab : 5/24/2017 4:08 pm : link
Is the absolute worst place to be in basketball. It's just asking to see mediocre basketball immediately but staying in mediocrity long term.

I'd rather such now if it gives a chance at greatness later. I'm patient. The Knicks have sucked for a while. So let's such while we actually have our draft picks. It would be so Knicks to make the playoffs once we actually have a player or two to build around and have our picks.
I can't fathom the Knicks competing for the playoffs next season  
bceagle05 : 5/24/2017 4:13 pm : link
but I could see them in the same 30 win neighborhood that keeps us out of the top five. My level of frustration will depend on how they go about it. If they're competitive next year because they make a smart Rubio trade, KP and Willy take a step forward, and Monk (for example) has a dynamic rookie year - you won't hear me complaining. If they do it by keeping Melo and overpaying Reddick, well, I'll become a Brooklyn fan.
RE: Usually it is  
santacruzom : 5/24/2017 4:31 pm : link
In comment 13480384 Deej said:
Quote:
Offseason Mocks Knicks


Nicely played.
i totally agree that a middle of the road  
Pep22 : 5/24/2017 4:51 pm : link
8 seed sucks. I say that from a logical standpoint.

From an emotional, admittedly impatient perspective....man what I would give to be able to watch my team with a reasonable hope that they wouldn't suck every year.
RE: i totally agree that a middle of the road  
giantsfan44ab : 5/24/2017 5:43 pm : link
In comment 13481080 Pep22 said:
Quote:
8 seed sucks. I say that from a logical standpoint.

From an emotional, admittedly impatient perspective....man what I would give to be able to watch my team with a reasonable hope that they wouldn't suck every year.


If the Giants weren't good I'd probably feel the same way. There's also the Yankees if you're into that. The mets shouldn't be THIS bad either. I can wait lol.
caleb swanigan staying in draft  
nygiants16 : 5/24/2017 7:36 pm : link
knicks worked out bam, swanigan, burton, blakeny...diallo was supposed to but cancelled
Hmm. This could shake things up a bit  
Anakim : 5/24/2017 11:53 pm : link
Stefan Bondy ✔@SBondyNYDN
The Sixers like both De'Aaron Fox and Dennis Smith Jr. for the third pick, according to sources.
RE: Hmm. This could shake things up a bit  
Reeses Pieces : 5/25/2017 5:48 am : link
In comment 13481621 Anakim said:
Quote:
Stefan Bondy ✔@SBondyNYDN
The Sixers like both De'Aaron Fox and Dennis Smith Jr. for the third pick, according to sources.


This could push Tatum/Jackson down to Minny w the 7th pick. Most Knicks fans will lose their mind.
RE: RE: Hmm. This could shake things up a bit  
TyreeHelmet : 5/25/2017 8:55 am : link
In comment 13481665 Reeses Pieces said:
[quote] In comment 13481621 Anakim said:


Quote:


Stefan Bondy ✔@SBondyNYDN
The Sixers like both De'Aaron Fox and Dennis Smith Jr. for the third pick, according to sources.



This could push Tatum/Jackson down to Minny w the 7th pick. Most Knicks fans will lose their mind. [/quote

I can see it now. Jackson falls to 7 and becomes an all star in Minny. Knicks take a bust at 8 and miss out on an all star because of a coin flip and winning meaningless games.
i dont think there is any chance jackson falls to 7  
nygiants16 : 5/25/2017 9:01 am : link
if smith goes 3..

phoenix is taking jackson..

kings are the wildcard no idea what they are doijg at 5, i would think fox BUT their owner likes shooters, i could see monk here...

orlando goes tatum

twolves go isaac..

best case fox is still here..

if sixers go fox:

suns jsckson
kings still dont know what they do, would think smith..

orlando tatum

twolves isaac

knicks get smith or monk or frank..

My most fervent hope is some team ahead of us  
Greg from LI : 5/25/2017 9:21 am : link
falls in love with Markkanen.
RE: My most fervent hope is some team ahead of us  
nygiants16 : 5/25/2017 9:25 am : link
In comment 13481840 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
falls in love with Markkanen.


monk seems to think he is going top 7 but i dont see it, unless the kings think he is the next steph curry and monk and hield can be his splash brothers...

if you get 2 of markannen, isaac or monk in the top 7 knicks will get real lucky with someone falling into their laps
If we got  
Ash_3 : 5/25/2017 9:25 am : link
one of Fox, Monk, or Smith, I'd be happy.

I don't know if they actually like him or not  
Greg from LI : 5/25/2017 9:27 am : link
But Monk would actually fit in really well with the Sixers since Simmons is going to play point forward. Lets Monk do what he does on offense and allows him to guard opposing ones.
RE: I don't know if they actually like him or not  
nygiants16 : 5/25/2017 9:35 am : link
In comment 13481853 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But Monk would actually fit in really well with the Sixers since Simmons is going to play point forward. Lets Monk do what he does on offense and allows him to guard opposing ones.


i think if they did not get top 3 he would of been their pick
RE: RE: Hmm. This could shake things up a bit  
Anakim : 5/25/2017 10:39 am : link
In comment 13481665 Reeses Pieces said:
Quote:
In comment 13481621 Anakim said:


Quote:


Stefan Bondy ✔@SBondyNYDN
The Sixers like both De'Aaron Fox and Dennis Smith Jr. for the third pick, according to sources.



This could push Tatum/Jackson down to Minny w the 7th pick. Most Knicks fans will lose their mind.


I think the Suns will jump at the opportunity to take a wing like Jackson or Tatum.

And yeah, I could see one of those 2 falling to #7
RE: RE: RE: Hmm. This could shake things up a bit  
Anakim : 5/25/2017 10:39 am : link
In comment 13481768 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 13481665 Reeses Pieces said:
[quote] In comment 13481621 Anakim said:


Quote:


Stefan Bondy ✔@SBondyNYDN
The Sixers like both De'Aaron Fox and Dennis Smith Jr. for the third pick, according to sources.



This could push Tatum/Jackson down to Minny w the 7th pick. Most Knicks fans will lose their mind. [/quote

I can see it now. Jackson falls to 7 and becomes an all star in Minny. Knicks take a bust at 8 and miss out on an all star because of a coin flip and winning meaningless games.


Steph Curry Part II
I don't know about you Guys  
giantsfan44ab : 5/25/2017 10:57 am : link
But I don't think there's any player this year around 8 that I'd really be disappointed with. Even down to Donovan Mitchell I'd be content with who we get. Not ecstatic, but alright.
RE: RE: I don't know if they actually like him or not  
Anakim : 5/25/2017 11:14 am : link
In comment 13481862 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13481853 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


But Monk would actually fit in really well with the Sixers since Simmons is going to play point forward. Lets Monk do what he does on offense and allows him to guard opposing ones.



i think if they did not get top 3 he would of been their pick


I think they would love to trade down, per usual
RE: I don't know about you Guys  
bceagle05 : 5/25/2017 11:19 am : link
In comment 13481997 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
But I don't think there's any player this year around 8 that I'd really be disappointed with. Even down to Donovan Mitchell I'd be content with who we get. Not ecstatic, but alright.


Yeah I'm not sweating the eighth pick too much - it really comes down to who's left at that point. I'm curious about our second rounders and any other draft choices we can acquire on the trade market. The Chandler and Rose trades were prior to the draft, so hopefully we pull another one off that is not a total disaster.
the only player i woukd be partly dissapointed is isaac  
nygiants16 : 5/25/2017 11:42 am : link
and that is because admittedly do not know much about him and not sure of the fit (which i know is the wrong way to think about the draft)
There seems to be a general consensus that this is "an 8 player draft"  
Mike in NJ : 5/25/2017 11:50 am : link
Beyond Fultz and Ball, Jackson, Tatum, Fox, Smith, Monk and Isaac seem to be regarded pretty equally. As long as they stick to taking whoever is left of that group then I'll be happy.
RE: the only player i woukd be partly dissapointed is isaac  
giantsfan44ab : 5/25/2017 12:58 pm : link
In comment 13482054 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
and that is because admittedly do not know much about him and not sure of the fit (which i know is the wrong way to think about the draft)


Still not worried about his "fit". He can defend 3 NBA positions. Better athlete than Ingram.
Isaac might have the highest ceiling of all of them  
Greg from LI : 5/25/2017 1:03 pm : link
There's definitely some risk there, but he's a 6'11" kid who can handle the ball, shoot, crash the boards and play excellent defense. He's too skinny now and can be overpowered, but he's not a soft finesse player. He's willing to bang underneath, just isn't equipped to win many of those battles yet. Could play anywhere from 3-5.
RE: There seems to be a general consensus that this is  
Deej : 5/25/2017 1:05 pm : link
In comment 13482070 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
Beyond Fultz and Ball, Jackson, Tatum, Fox, Smith, Monk and Isaac seem to be regarded pretty equally. As long as they stick to taking whoever is left of that group then I'll be happy.

+1.
maybe i should watch some of isaac then  
nygiants16 : 5/25/2017 1:07 pm : link
seems i am missing something by not watching much of him
RE: maybe i should watch some of isaac then  
giantsfan44ab : 5/25/2017 1:17 pm : link
In comment 13482267 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
seems i am missing something by not watching much of him


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0z6orTeKVc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBM0s4nJwmc
thabks giantsfan  
nygiants16 : 5/25/2017 1:28 pm : link
..
I really like Isaac.  
Heisenberg : 5/25/2017 1:37 pm : link
Such an interesting combination of hints of offensive ability (good handle, decent outside shot at 6'11") with some real willingness to play defense.
now for the knocks on Isaac  
Greg from LI : 5/25/2017 1:38 pm : link
He's not aggressive on offense, settling for long jumpers too often instead of taking the ball to the rim. Goes through periods where he doesn't really look to score. As I mentioned, can get manhandled in the paint because he's only something like 210 pounds. Has a good handle but frequently looks like he doesn't know what he wants to do with the ball. Not much of a passer.
ultimately, he's got the most tantalizing combination of  
Greg from LI : 5/25/2017 1:41 pm : link
size, athleticism, and skill in the draft. He may not reach his potential, but I don't think he's a boom or bust player. At worst he should be a good defender who can guard multiple positions, hit the boards, and knock down open jumpers.
RE: ultimately, he's got the most tantalizing combination of  
giantsfan44ab : 5/25/2017 1:42 pm : link
In comment 13482340 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
size, athleticism, and skill in the draft. He may not reach his potential, but I don't think he's a boom or bust player. At worst he should be a good defender who can guard multiple positions, hit the boards, and knock down open jumpers.


Exactly what I see with him.
I  
DanMetroMan : 5/28/2017 6:32 pm : link
don't see Monk with the Kings at all. They have Hield already. Hield may not be a future superstar but he is 23 years old, just went 6th overall and with the Kings put up 15 and 4 with 2 assists on 48% from the field, 43% from 3. Makes absolutely no sense taking Monk who may have higher upside but is a similar overall player (scorer with "okay" secondary skills) and Hield is "only" 6'5 but has 6'9 1/4 wingspan, Monk is 6'3 with 6'7 wingspan. Kings are morons so who knows but that seems highly unlikely.
RE: I  
capone : 5/28/2017 6:59 pm : link
In comment 13484444 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
don't see Monk with the Kings at all. They have Hield already. Hield may not be a future superstar but he is 23 years old, just went 6th overall and with the Kings put up 15 and 4 with 2 assists on 48% from the field, 43% from 3. Makes absolutely no sense taking Monk who may have higher upside but is a similar overall player (scorer with "okay" secondary skills) and Hield is "only" 6'5 but has 6'9 1/4 wingspan, Monk is 6'3 with 6'7 wingspan. Kings are morons so who knows but that seems highly unlikely.


everyone killed Vlade for the boogies deal but how many teams would prefer Boogie and a $200m contract coming or the 5th pick the 10th pick and Hield?
Isaac may have a terrific ceiling, but is he a good match?  
manh george : 5/28/2017 10:41 pm : link
If he is the one left of the top 8, I wonder whether the Knicks try to trade down with a team that needs an Isaac-style player and go for the European or Donovan Mitchell, if they can get to the very top of the second round for their second pick. Might require third team in the trade, but from what I can tell, there will be some valuable talent at the top of round 2. Perhaps another European, like Kuruks.

This only applies, mind you, if the last top 8 player left is Isaac. He has mad skills that someone will crave, but I don't think he is what the Knicks need, by a long shot. They need a PG and some physical talent at the 2. If someone sneaks into the top 7, like Markkanen or Isaac, none of this applies.
RE: RE: I  
Sgrcts : 5/29/2017 11:57 am : link
In comment 13484446 capone said:
Quote:
In comment 13484444 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


don't see Monk with the Kings at all. They have Hield already. Hield may not be a future superstar but he is 23 years old, just went 6th overall and with the Kings put up 15 and 4 with 2 assists on 48% from the field, 43% from 3. Makes absolutely no sense taking Monk who may have higher upside but is a similar overall player (scorer with "okay" secondary skills) and Hield is "only" 6'5 but has 6'9 1/4 wingspan, Monk is 6'3 with 6'7 wingspan. Kings are morons so who knows but that seems highly unlikely.



everyone killed Vlade for the boogies deal but how many teams would prefer Boogie and a $200m contract coming or the 5th pick the 10th pick and Hield?


Give me the top 13 player in the NBA who is only 27 over a bunch of guys who most likely won't be in the NBA in 5 years anytime.
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