I can't sleep, so here we are.
1. Draft Frank Ntilikina, Tony Bradley, Dwayne Bacon
2. 3 way trade:
LAC Gets Carmelo Anthony
Minnesota Gets Kyle OQuinn, Jamal Crawford, 2020 1st from LAC
NYK Gets Ricky Rubio, Austin Rivers, 2022 1st from LAC
3. Knicks Sign PJ Tucker: 3 years, 40M
Roster Next Season:
C. Willy/Noah/Bradley
PF. KP/Lance
SF: Tucker/Kuz/Bacon
SG: Lee/Rivers
PG: Rubio/Frank/Baker
With Rubio and Tucker, it's a completely different defensive team with a new mentality. Tucker's contract expires with Lee, Rivers and Noah in 3 years, and the Knicks will have a strong young core at that point with plenty of money to spend. In the meantime, we have a fiercely competitive squad that's fun to root for and will play hard every night. KP becomes the focal point, go to scorer, and face of the franchise.
The trade is well thought out.
The 13mm committment for Tucker is tough to stomach.
I'd prefer Dante Cunningham, Jonas Jerekbo, Alan Williams, Jamichael Green, Christian Wood on cheaper deals.
The Knicks have been linked with him a bunch. I think he actually makes a lot of sense as a two way player and culture changing guy.
Im fine with Tucker. Im less fine with signing guys who we are already talking about when they expire. As if we know it is a bad contract. Reminds me of the Rose trade defense last year that it was a short term deal. Im also worried about Noah, Lee, and Tucker expiring at the team time. The Knicks need more continuity. It will help when we have our own picks (although Phil bailed on THJR, and then Grant). NBA teams take a while to gel. Ideally you want guys playing together year after year after year.
That also completely caps out the Knicks. Being a bad team with no cap space is one of the worst things you can do. That also makes the Knicks just good enough to be picking outside the top 5. For me next year should be all about developing KP/Willy/2017 pick and getting a top pick in the 2018 draft. If you want to sign a guy like Ian Clark or someone else young, I'm fine with that. But no reason for this team to sign guys over 30.
I'd be trying to get some extra picks in this draft via trades or Melo/Lee/ KOQ. Put as much young talent around KP as possible. I'd also fire Phil Jackson and write a blank check to a proven GM. But that's another issue.
Without thinking.
Yeah, but that's a different point. And it doesn't seem that any player is allowed to play "their style" under Phil's obsession with the triangle.
Just seems like a lopsided trade heavily in favor of Minn. I could be wrong though.
diallo is thinking of going back to kentucky
Quote:
Rubio (if allowed to play his style) allows KP, WH etc. to grow/thrive in a way that Melo cannot and frankly, does the opposite
Yeah, but that's a different point. And it doesn't seem that any player is allowed to play "their style" under Phil's obsession with the triangle.
Just seems like a lopsided trade heavily in favor of Minn. I could be wrong though.
I also wouldn't do that if I were the clips. You trade all your depth, presumably lose Redick re-signing CP3 and Blake, give up 2 firsts for Melo? Who do they even start at SG? Diamond Stone? Mo Speights?
If the clips lose CP3, however smalla chance that may actually be, then I think Melo would be off the table.
And yes, that team is not a title contender, but they don't mortgage the future or give up any real flexibility. 3/40 is not a big deal these days.
I'll admit it's a stretch, but I think the goal would be to aim adding another "piece" before we get capped out on KP/Willy's next deal. However unlikely that may be. I'd rather leave the chance of adding one than shutting the possibility down with more bad contracts.
If we're adding "culture" vets I'd prefer keeping them to 1-2 year deals (e.g. Sergio Rodriguez, tony Allen) to allow for future cap flexibility.
Also, what's the point of adding guys that may add wins next year but not 3 years down the line? It's going to take more than 1 year to turn the culture around, let's at least guarantee getting a top pick next year before KP and willy start entering their primes. We need another "piece" in this draft and/or next draft.
Semi Ojeleye is this years guy. He's 6'7" and a rocked up 240 lb. High level athlete. Can shoot, handle etc. High character kid.
If we could acquire a mid to late 1st, he would be my guy.
Agree on Rubio. One of my main issues with Phil is failure to get deals done and to make trades happen. His inability to complete the Rubio deal at the deadline was a big failure. Same thing with Melo. It takes a lot of work and deal making to make a trade happen. Phil doesn't seem to possess those traits. In 3 years on the job he's yet to make one positive trade for the Knicks.
If KP is a unique forward that at 7'3" can drain 3s at will, and if the rebounding game has changed due to so many 3's (which tend to bounce farther out?) as opposed to layups and near the basket stuff, as well as due to all the fast breaks, that maybe you add another unique forward, a super athletic rebounder, an aggressive mover in space type, and a ball-disher, as opposed to a thumper / heavy forward ...to better reflect todays game and better feed KP.
so the language for forwards may change.
He's nearly 36% last year, up nearly 3% from his rookie season on 4.8 attempts per game, which is more attempts per game that Steph curry his 2nd year. KP is a pure shooter if I've ever seen one.
By comparison Ryan Anderson attempted 7.5 3s per game this past season. I think KP can easily average that many at his peak. In fact, considering how quickly he can get his shot off and how it's pretty much impossible to contest his shot, I think he can and should push for 10 attempts per game if/when paired with a PG who looks to get shooters open.
If that's another unique type of forward - so be it.
Imagine then KP as a reggie miller only at 7'3"
Also, his hair trigger release spaces the floor. He has no wind up. So his man, a 4 or 5, needs to stay on him to disrupt him at all.
-but- you are wasting KP if you ask him to stay under or near the basket all the time.
the changes in the game may require even more athletic skills to gain that many O rebounds, due to the high numbers on 3s shots and the fast break threat, so a skinny super athletic forward that can fly may be in the works, or even a center of that type, to get the O rebounds and give KP and Co. more chances at 3s and mid range jumpers
so - you may have a unique team with 2 great but unusual forwards
I dont get the Simmons love at all. He's not young. He's a wing who cant shoot -- under 30% from 3, 31.6% from 16-3p. I struggle to see what he does that makes him worth 2-3 Lance Thomas's. If he was a $18 million player, he would have played more minutes. Stinks of Jerome James to me.
got to think tony bradley has one to
good with this, draft frank, doncic next year, all euro super team ☺
go look at any deal that involves a long term deal for an expiring, the team getting a long term contract asks for a pick...
also reports were that minnesota wanted a 1st
DMM - do you think Lance Thomas would be enough to get Rubio?
DMM - do you think Lance Thomas would be enough to get Rubio?
I'm not the right person to ask... I despise Thomas. He looks like he doesn't even feel comfortable running up and down the court. Of course it takes 2 to tango and you never know what other teams think (Wolves apprently will pursue Rose) so they obviously don't value Rubio that highly but I personally think Thomas is hot garbage.
Where did you see this? I know Bill Simmons said this much later, but I read at the time that Phil asked for Rubio-Rose straight up at the deadline and the Wolves turned it down.
I said at the time that I didnt have a problem with the Thomas deal. It's the next step up from veteran min wage. I am troubled by the fact that he hasnt been healthy now in 1.5 seasons. But if he regains the health of the Fisher-era Thomas, he's a helpful piece on a not huge contract. I think one thing to keep in mind with Thomas is that he is a coach's pet. Plays D and appears to be willing to buy into whatever systems coaches want. We have a lot of guys who resist coaching.
we agree on this i hate thomas...
if minnesota offered rubio for thomas and 1 of the 2nd rounders i would do it in a second
X - will be similar to a shooting guard on O and similar to a shot blocking big on D (Porzingas)
Y - will be a dedicated, amazing rebounder and ball distributor on O, (like an upside down point guard once he gets the ball, as opposed to a 'muscle up and put back a layup' player)
and the Y on D - he defends the 3s, top of arc by zone, using his height to an advantage at the arc, so, obviously the Y needs to be athletic and savvy with good hands at both ends, but need -not- be a great scorer, in case you wonder where to find such a kid.
That criticism is right. It's an easy flaw for us fans to seize on, so I think we over-rate its importance. Whereas we dont see/recognize all the fuckups of a guy like KOQ in not doing what the scheme/coaching calls for. But the coaches see that and it probably bugs them a lot more.
I should add that I think I've heard that Thomas is also an A+ teammate and guy to have in the lockerroom. This stuff matters. Acting right and being supportive, conforming to the scheme etc. -- this is stuff that happens on the good teams. Playing Lance Thomas reinforces the rewards for taking to the scheme.
Allows for 14mm to be allocated elsewhere.
Any guesses to what type of deal Rose gets? 1 for 15mill, 2 for 25 ?
That 2nd number is not-nothing. But compare it to all that players, offense and defense, where he does the right thing schematically. While the ill advise pull up jumpers from Thomas are maddening, I think the bigger issue on him is still lack of peripheral stats. Dude's per 36 averages are 5.3 rebounds, 1.3 assists, .8 steals, and .2 blocks. It speaks to a lack of making plays. KOQ's same 36 minutes fill the stat sheet -- 12.9 rebs, 3.4 assists, 1.1 steals, 3.0 blocks.
But I think if he gets healthy and a touch more consistent that he's got value. Lets not forget that he's a 40.4 and 44.7% 3 point shooter the last 2 seasons, respectively. His defense is at least average, and he defends wing and PF -- it's why he played with Melo so much.
Counterpoint: he had a negative VORP, which suggests below replacement level. But so did Tony Parker, Wiggins, and Sergio R. Dont know it well, and not sure I like that stat
I'd do that
Danny Green is a very average player. Being blocked by Danny Green's 27 mpg is not an excuse for a guy who you're talking about giving 18 million per season to.
Manu is 39. His stats suggest 5th starter or 6/7 man. Amazing for his age. But Im not giving much credit to Simmons for being blocked by Manu. Manu isnt the 24 PER, .250 WS48 player of his youth.
Quote:
Danny Green and Manu Ginobili are some pretty big reasons Simmons hasn't received more minutes.
Danny Green is a very average player. Being blocked by Danny Green's 27 mpg is not an excuse for a guy who you're talking about giving 18 million per season to.
Manu is 39. His stats suggest 5th starter or 6/7 man. Amazing for his age. But Im not giving much credit to Simmons for being blocked by Manu. Manu isnt the 24 PER, .250 WS48 player of his youth.
So you'd give a few mil less to a more limited player 5 years older?
Again, I'm talking about everything in comparison to the proposed PJ Tucker deal. Nothing else. Shows how horrible such a deal to Tucker would be.
Turning 28 in September. The Knicks should be trying to develop/find the next Simmons instead of overpaying for him. I really hope they sit out free agency this year outside of taking some fliers on high upside guys. 18m a year or 13 a year for Tucker are not smart moves, especially for the Knicks.
My idea of giving $70M to Simmons was all in relation to this Tucker deal. Nothing more, nothing less.
Quote:
Wouldn't be a fan of a $70M deal but I'd take Simmons at $18M a year well over Tucker at $13M a year without much debate. What makes Tucker anymore of a "culture" guy than Simmons? Shooting %s and advanced stats are similar.
Turning 28 in September. The Knicks should be trying to develop/find the next Simmons instead of overpaying for him. I really hope they sit out free agency this year outside of taking some fliers on high upside guys. 18m a year or 13 a year for Tucker are not smart moves, especially for the Knicks.
This is my preferred option 1A for this offseason. Sign Sergio to a 1 year deal. Maybe snatch Clark or James Young on a small-ish deal if possible. Get Sullinger, Withey or Willie Reed on a 1 year deal.
great fit for NYK)
Muscala Even better, can actually shoot 3s. Just any of those types of guys that'll take short deals or team options.
Quote:
4 years $70M than tucker that much. Gimme someone that can contribute when KP/Willy/#8 enter their prime.
My idea of giving $70M to Simmons was all in relation to this Tucker deal. Nothing more, nothing less.
Giving an inferior player 2x money seems like a bad move.
Quote:
In comment 13480427 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
4 years $70M than tucker that much. Gimme someone that can contribute when KP/Willy/#8 enter their prime.
My idea of giving $70M to Simmons was all in relation to this Tucker deal. Nothing more, nothing less.
Giving an inferior player 2x money seems like a bad move.
Don't know how he's tangibly inferior but I'll go with it.
I'll still take a lesser player that's 4 years younger, one that will contribute positively when KP is ~25 than one that will ruin our draft status now and be a cap stain and useless when KP is hitting his peak.
My preferred route? Sign neither, stick with 1-2 year deals, nab a top pick next year, go after legit FAs with a clear cap in 2018.
But on the other hand, my other hope just to watch a team that is reasonably competitive i.e. with 10 games left, we're talking about playoffs, even an 8 seed and not 8th draft slot.
Obviously the (unrealistic) hope for something as far fetched as a .500 season runs counter to what I led with. Ahh the dismal existence of being a NYK fan.
I'd rather such now if it gives a chance at greatness later. I'm patient. The Knicks have sucked for a while. So let's such while we actually have our draft picks. It would be so Knicks to make the playoffs once we actually have a player or two to build around and have our picks.
Nicely played.
From an emotional, admittedly impatient perspective....man what I would give to be able to watch my team with a reasonable hope that they wouldn't suck every year.
From an emotional, admittedly impatient perspective....man what I would give to be able to watch my team with a reasonable hope that they wouldn't suck every year.
If the Giants weren't good I'd probably feel the same way. There's also the Yankees if you're into that. The mets shouldn't be THIS bad either. I can wait lol.
The Sixers like both De'Aaron Fox and Dennis Smith Jr. for the third pick, according to sources.
The Sixers like both De'Aaron Fox and Dennis Smith Jr. for the third pick, according to sources.
This could push Tatum/Jackson down to Minny w the 7th pick. Most Knicks fans will lose their mind.
[quote] In comment 13481621 Anakim said:
Quote:
Stefan Bondy ✔@SBondyNYDN
The Sixers like both De'Aaron Fox and Dennis Smith Jr. for the third pick, according to sources.
This could push Tatum/Jackson down to Minny w the 7th pick. Most Knicks fans will lose their mind. [/quote
I can see it now. Jackson falls to 7 and becomes an all star in Minny. Knicks take a bust at 8 and miss out on an all star because of a coin flip and winning meaningless games.
phoenix is taking jackson..
kings are the wildcard no idea what they are doijg at 5, i would think fox BUT their owner likes shooters, i could see monk here...
orlando goes tatum
twolves go isaac..
best case fox is still here..
if sixers go fox:
suns jsckson
kings still dont know what they do, would think smith..
orlando tatum
twolves isaac
knicks get smith or monk or frank..
monk seems to think he is going top 7 but i dont see it, unless the kings think he is the next steph curry and monk and hield can be his splash brothers...
if you get 2 of markannen, isaac or monk in the top 7 knicks will get real lucky with someone falling into their laps
i think if they did not get top 3 he would of been their pick
Quote:
Stefan Bondy ✔@SBondyNYDN
The Sixers like both De'Aaron Fox and Dennis Smith Jr. for the third pick, according to sources.
This could push Tatum/Jackson down to Minny w the 7th pick. Most Knicks fans will lose their mind.
I think the Suns will jump at the opportunity to take a wing like Jackson or Tatum.
And yeah, I could see one of those 2 falling to #7
[quote] In comment 13481621 Anakim said:
Quote:
Stefan Bondy ✔@SBondyNYDN
The Sixers like both De'Aaron Fox and Dennis Smith Jr. for the third pick, according to sources.
This could push Tatum/Jackson down to Minny w the 7th pick. Most Knicks fans will lose their mind. [/quote
I can see it now. Jackson falls to 7 and becomes an all star in Minny. Knicks take a bust at 8 and miss out on an all star because of a coin flip and winning meaningless games.
Steph Curry Part II
Quote:
But Monk would actually fit in really well with the Sixers since Simmons is going to play point forward. Lets Monk do what he does on offense and allows him to guard opposing ones.
i think if they did not get top 3 he would of been their pick
I think they would love to trade down, per usual
Yeah I'm not sweating the eighth pick too much - it really comes down to who's left at that point. I'm curious about our second rounders and any other draft choices we can acquire on the trade market. The Chandler and Rose trades were prior to the draft, so hopefully we pull another one off that is not a total disaster.
Still not worried about his "fit". He can defend 3 NBA positions. Better athlete than Ingram.
+1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0z6orTeKVc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBM0s4nJwmc
Exactly what I see with him.
everyone killed Vlade for the boogies deal but how many teams would prefer Boogie and a $200m contract coming or the 5th pick the 10th pick and Hield?
This only applies, mind you, if the last top 8 player left is Isaac. He has mad skills that someone will crave, but I don't think he is what the Knicks need, by a long shot. They need a PG and some physical talent at the 2. If someone sneaks into the top 7, like Markkanen or Isaac, none of this applies.
Quote:
don't see Monk with the Kings at all. They have Hield already. Hield may not be a future superstar but he is 23 years old, just went 6th overall and with the Kings put up 15 and 4 with 2 assists on 48% from the field, 43% from 3. Makes absolutely no sense taking Monk who may have higher upside but is a similar overall player (scorer with "okay" secondary skills) and Hield is "only" 6'5 but has 6'9 1/4 wingspan, Monk is 6'3 with 6'7 wingspan. Kings are morons so who knows but that seems highly unlikely.
everyone killed Vlade for the boogies deal but how many teams would prefer Boogie and a $200m contract coming or the 5th pick the 10th pick and Hield?
Give me the top 13 player in the NBA who is only 27 over a bunch of guys who most likely won't be in the NBA in 5 years anytime.