NFT: Knicks Mock Offseason

Offseason Mocks Knicks

the whole 3 years and 40 million for PJ Tucker thing. That would be a truly awful contract.

that draft is fine, a solid B.

The trade is well thought out.

The 13mm committment for Tucker is tough to stomach.

I'd prefer Dante Cunningham, Jonas Jerekbo, Alan Williams, Jamichael Green, Christian Wood on cheaper deals.

ugh

goals of adding culture changers. More than size, athleticism, shooting or whatever the typical attributes teams hope to add, we need to first rid ourselves of the poison i.e. ME FIRST TEAM SECOND, defense doesn't matter basketball.

will probably get something like 3 for 40 on the open Market.

The Knicks have been linked with him a bunch. I think he actually makes a lot of sense as a two way player and culture changing guy.

I dont love it. I'd rather keep Melo than trade him for Rivers and a 2022 Clips pick. Rubio I'd like but he doesnt get me excited. I also think that deal is very bad for Minnesota.

Im fine with Tucker. Im less fine with signing guys who we are already talking about when they expire. As if we know it is a bad contract. Reminds me of the Rose trade defense last year that it was a short term deal. Im also worried about Noah, Lee, and Tucker expiring at the team time. The Knicks need more continuity. It will help when we have our own picks (although Phil bailed on THJR, and then Grant). NBA teams take a while to gel. Ideally you want guys playing together year after year after year.

Yes, Tucker will probably get something like that. Doesn't mean it has to be the Knicks. The guy is a good defender and averages 5 points and 5 rebounds game. He's also 32 years old. Giving a guy like this 13M would be a mistake.

DOnt like the Melo trade nor the tucker signing one bit.

4 years $70M than tucker that much. Gimme someone that can contribute when KP/Willy/#8 enter their prime.

Although It wouldn't be a horrific deal. I assume in your scenario Minnesota takes Dennis Smith Jr.?

What's the ceiling on that roster? Even if everything goes right and they play well above projections, can they win 40 games? I highly doubt it and again puts you in no mans land picking between 9th and 14th.

That also completely caps out the Knicks. Being a bad team with no cap space is one of the worst things you can do. That also makes the Knicks just good enough to be picking outside the top 5. For me next year should be all about developing KP/Willy/2017 pick and getting a top pick in the 2018 draft. If you want to sign a guy like Ian Clark or someone else young, I'm fine with that. But no reason for this team to sign guys over 30.

I'd be trying to get some extra picks in this draft via trades or Melo/Lee/ KOQ. Put as much young talent around KP as possible. I'd also fire Phil Jackson and write a blank check to a proven GM. But that's another issue.

to the 3 and Henderson's expiring for Melo and the 8?

In comment 13480433 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

to the 3 and Henderson's expiring for Melo and the 8?

Without thinking.

Seems pretty steep for me. Are we saying that Rubio is worth more than Melo?

Rubio (if allowed to play his style) allows KP, WH etc. to grow/thrive in a way that Melo cannot and frankly, does the opposite

he could play but not be forced into a 30 min a night burden

In comment 13480454 Pep22 said:

Quote:

Rubio (if allowed to play his style) allows KP, WH etc. to grow/thrive in a way that Melo cannot and frankly, does the opposite

Yeah, but that's a different point. And it doesn't seem that any player is allowed to play "their style" under Phil's obsession with the triangle.

Just seems like a lopsided trade heavily in favor of Minn. I could be wrong though.

staying in draft amd hiring am agent..

diallo is thinking of going back to kentucky

In comment 13480457 PhiPsi125 said:

Quote:

In comment 13480454 Pep22 said: Quote: Rubio (if allowed to play his style) allows KP, WH etc. to grow/thrive in a way that Melo cannot and frankly, does the opposite Yeah, but that's a different point. And it doesn't seem that any player is allowed to play "their style" under Phil's obsession with the triangle. Just seems like a lopsided trade heavily in favor of Minn. I could be wrong though.

I also wouldn't do that if I were the clips. You trade all your depth, presumably lose Redick re-signing CP3 and Blake, give up 2 firsts for Melo? Who do they even start at SG? Diamond Stone? Mo Speights?

If the clips lose CP3, however smalla chance that may actually be, then I think Melo would be off the table.

the Knicks missed out on Rubio. He's an improved 3 pt shot (and he's getting there) from being a top 15 pg in the league. Still only 26. Great defender. He and Tucker would transform this teams perimeter D.

And yes, that team is not a title contender, but they don't mortgage the future or give up any real flexibility. 3/40 is not a big deal these days.

My only concern was he'd play well enough to drop us in the lottery from fourth or fifth to - oh I don't know - eighth! So much for that logic. He'd be an excellent acquisition. He's not just a pass first PG - he's a pass first, second, third and fourth PG. KP and Willy would love him. And he plays defense. And he's only 26. Sounds like that deal could've and should've been made at the deadline.

The year KP (and I believe Willy) hit RFA, there will be a combined ~$53M committed to Noah, tucker, lee and thomas. Roughly 50% of the cap. And it will take about what, around $45M per year to retain both KP and Willy? With the draft picks this year and next year that pretty much makes you capped out. All 4 will be mid-30s as well.

I'll admit it's a stretch, but I think the goal would be to aim adding another "piece" before we get capped out on KP/Willy's next deal. However unlikely that may be. I'd rather leave the chance of adding one than shutting the possibility down with more bad contracts.

If we're adding "culture" vets I'd prefer keeping them to 1-2 year deals (e.g. Sergio Rodriguez, tony Allen) to allow for future cap flexibility.

Also, what's the point of adding guys that may add wins next year but not 3 years down the line? It's going to take more than 1 year to turn the culture around, let's at least guarantee getting a top pick next year before KP and willy start entering their primes. We need another "piece" in this draft and/or next draft.

One prototype that seems to be successful is the 6'6" 230 lb "football mentality" defense first guy with diverse/developing offensive skills. Jae Crowder, Dray Green are two examples. Ron Artest was another example, as was Dan Majerle. Jimmy Butler took his game to another level but he is another example.

Semi Ojeleye is this years guy. He's 6'7" and a rocked up 240 lb. High level athlete. Can shoot, handle etc. High character kid.

If we could acquire a mid to late 1st, he would be my guy.

Lance as our overpaid 3 and D wing with a lousy PER. Do we really need another making even more money? What's really bugging me is that Phil is seemingly going to trade Melo...but still try to add vets in hopes of making a run at that 8th seed that has eluded him since he got here.

In comment 13480561 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

My only concern was he'd play well enough to drop us in the lottery from fourth or fifth to - oh I don't know - eighth! So much for that logic. He'd be an excellent acquisition. He's not just a pass first PG - he's a pass first, second, third and fourth PG. KP and Willy would love him. And he plays defense. And he's only 26. Sounds like that deal could've and should've been made at the deadline.

Agree on Rubio. One of my main issues with Phil is failure to get deals done and to make trades happen. His inability to complete the Rubio deal at the deadline was a big failure. Same thing with Melo. It takes a lot of work and deal making to make a trade happen. Phil doesn't seem to possess those traits. In 3 years on the job he's yet to make one positive trade for the Knicks.

may be in for a revamp.

If KP is a unique forward that at 7'3" can drain 3s at will, and if the rebounding game has changed due to so many 3's (which tend to bounce farther out?) as opposed to layups and near the basket stuff, as well as due to all the fast breaks, that maybe you add another unique forward, a super athletic rebounder, an aggressive mover in space type, and a ball-disher, as opposed to a thumper / heavy forward ...to better reflect todays game and better feed KP.

so the language for forwards may change.

KP is a career 34.6% three point shooter. At will? Come on. We are all homers but he is no Steve Kerr at over 45%. He is an average 3 Point shooter. For he size yes he has a nice touch.

In comment 13480664 Carl in CT said:

Quote:

KP is a career 34.6% three point shooter. At will? Come on. We are all homers but he is no Steve Kerr at over 45%. He is an average 3 Point shooter. For he size yes he has a nice touch.

He's nearly 36% last year, up nearly 3% from his rookie season on 4.8 attempts per game, which is more attempts per game that Steph curry his 2nd year. KP is a pure shooter if I've ever seen one.

By comparison Ryan Anderson attempted 7.5 3s per game this past season. I think KP can easily average that many at his peak. In fact, considering how quickly he can get his shot off and how it's pretty much impossible to contest his shot, I think he can and should push for 10 attempts per game if/when paired with a PG who looks to get shooters open.

really athletic, jumpy, movement oriented and savvy rebounder for the offensive side, for todays game, not the old school thumper, a unique and great rebounder, who can deliver the ball back out to the players on the arc, KP being one of them, and at the same time kill the other teams fast break %age, you may have just turned KP into a really unique piece, and the team into an unusual problem for other teams, as the rebounds on O are not as big a part of the game as they were in days of old. but can be again.

If that's another unique type of forward - so be it.

Imagine then KP as a reggie miller only at 7'3"

other things to note -- since he isnt taking corner 3s and indeed takes them from well behind the arc, his 3s are effectively more valuable. Obviously 3 points is 3 points. But his shooting spaces the floor a lot more than a 36% corner shooter. Also lets you have another corner 3 shooter out there (say a 3 and D guy).

Also, his hair trigger release spaces the floor. He has no wind up. So his man, a 4 or 5, needs to stay on him to disrupt him at all.

If the Knicks are sticking with Phil, they are probably remaining interested in increasing even more the O side rebounds, that's probably huge in the triangle, #s were higher in the 1980s and 1990s than they are now,

-but- you are wasting KP if you ask him to stay under or near the basket all the time.

the changes in the game may require even more athletic skills to gain that many O rebounds, due to the high numbers on 3s shots and the fast break threat, so a skinny super athletic forward that can fly may be in the works, or even a center of that type, to get the O rebounds and give KP and Co. more chances at 3s and mid range jumpers

so - you may have a unique team with 2 great but unusual forwards

In comment 13480427 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

4 years $70M than tucker that much. Gimme someone that can contribute when KP/Willy/#8 enter their prime.

I dont get the Simmons love at all. He's not young. He's a wing who cant shoot -- under 30% from 3, 31.6% from 16-3p. I struggle to see what he does that makes him worth 2-3 Lance Thomas's. If he was a $18 million player, he would have played more minutes. Stinks of Jerome James to me.

Think it's a better than 50% chance Rubio is a Knick next season

Wilson (a personal fave) with a first round guarantee

In comment 13480743 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Wilson (a personal fave) with a first round guarantee

got to think tony bradley has one to

Phil is undoubtably the worst GM in the NBA. He could have had him for arose, an expiring asset, but pushed for more. Now literally anything he's giving to the Wolves is more then what he would have before.

In comment 13480722 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Think it's a better than 50% chance Rubio is a Knick next season

good with this, draft frank, doncic next year, all euro super team ☺

In comment 13480748 Sgrcts said:

Quote:

Phil is undoubtably the worst GM in the NBA. He could have had him for arose, an expiring asset, but pushed for more. Now literally anything he's giving to the Wolves is more then what he would have before.

go look at any deal that involves a long term deal for an expiring, the team getting a long term contract asks for a pick...

also reports were that minnesota wanted a 1st

nice job pointing out those stats by Simmons. Alarming.

DMM - do you think Lance Thomas would be enough to get Rubio?

In comment 13480758 Pep22 said:

Quote:

nice job pointing out those stats by Simmons. Alarming. DMM - do you think Lance Thomas would be enough to get Rubio?

I'm not the right person to ask... I despise Thomas. He looks like he doesn't even feel comfortable running up and down the court. Of course it takes 2 to tango and you never know what other teams think (Wolves apprently will pursue Rose) so they obviously don't value Rubio that highly but I personally think Thomas is hot garbage.

Any Sergio Rodriguez or Rubio (obviously he's better) on this team.

In comment 13480748 Sgrcts said:

Quote:

Phil is undoubtably the worst GM in the NBA. He could have had him for arose, an expiring asset, but pushed for more. Now literally anything he's giving to the Wolves is more then what he would have before.

Where did you see this? I know Bill Simmons said this much later, but I read at the time that Phil asked for Rubio-Rose straight up at the deadline and the Wolves turned it down.

The "claim" is Phil asked for more and then relented at the deadline and the Wolves opted against it (who knows how true?)

Do the Wolves want value back for Rubio or do they want to be rid of his contract? Not identical but has some parallels to the Melo situation. Also, do they want Thomas at all (unlikely)?

I said at the time that I didnt have a problem with the Thomas deal. It's the next step up from veteran min wage. I am troubled by the fact that he hasnt been healthy now in 1.5 seasons. But if he regains the health of the Fisher-era Thomas, he's a helpful piece on a not huge contract. I think one thing to keep in mind with Thomas is that he is a coach's pet. Plays D and appears to be willing to buy into whatever systems coaches want. We have a lot of guys who resist coaching.

I agree with everything you said. I have an irrational dislike of Thomas. I think among other things forces way too many jumpers for a scrub . But I agree with what you are saying.

In comment 13480794 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

I agree with everything you said. I have an irrational dislike of Thomas. I think among other things forces way too many jumpers for a scrub . But I agree with what you are saying.

we agree on this i hate thomas...

if minnesota offered rubio for thomas and 1 of the 2nd rounders i would do it in a second

you will have the X and the Y.

X - will be similar to a shooting guard on O and similar to a shot blocking big on D (Porzingas)

Y - will be a dedicated, amazing rebounder and ball distributor on O, (like an upside down point guard once he gets the ball, as opposed to a 'muscle up and put back a layup' player)

and the Y on D - he defends the 3s, top of arc by zone, using his height to an advantage at the arc, so, obviously the Y needs to be athletic and savvy with good hands at both ends, but need -not- be a great scorer, in case you wonder where to find such a kid.

In comment 13480794 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

I agree with everything you said. I have an irrational dislike of Thomas. I think among other things forces way too many jumpers for a scrub . But I agree with what you are saying.

That criticism is right. It's an easy flaw for us fans to seize on, so I think we over-rate its importance. Whereas we dont see/recognize all the fuckups of a guy like KOQ in not doing what the scheme/coaching calls for. But the coaches see that and it probably bugs them a lot more.

I should add that I think I've heard that Thomas is also an A+ teammate and guy to have in the lockerroom. This stuff matters. Acting right and being supportive, conforming to the scheme etc. -- this is stuff that happens on the good teams. Playing Lance Thomas reinforces the rewards for taking to the scheme.

also saves a ton of cap room in the sense that they'd be taking Rose's 20mm and spending a net of only 6mm (Rubio's 13mm less Thomas's 7mm).

Allows for 14mm to be allocated elsewhere.