Simple question - official combine speed and quickness.
"The first-rounder, Rookie No. 1, he's got speed for days."
--Zak DeOssie, when asked about his impressions of the rookie class at OTA's.
"Engram made a great catch today right down the seam. I was like, 'OK, that's why we got him in the first round."
--Justin Pugh post-OTA.
I mention this because it appears as if his speed numbers translate to the field, and looking at his college tape he carries his pads well. Giants have never had speed merchant TE like this, even Shockey was considerably slower.
Gotta reconcile those two facts and will always wonder, as good as he is, if we weren't better off replacing a less worthy player than Shep.
Our two offseason free agent acquisitions were already spent on the receiving corp with Ellison and Marshall.
Having said all that, I also trust our front office and HC to make the right decisions and to also weigh the alternatives at the 23rd. spot.
Gotta reconcile those two facts and will always wonder, as good as he is, if we weren't better off replacing a less worthy player than Shep.
Our two offseason free agent acquisitions were already spent on the receiving corp with Ellison and Marshall.
Having said all that, I also trust our front office and HC to make the right decisions and to also weigh the alternatives at the 23rd. spot.
I don't think he affects Sheppard much at all. He effects Will Tye a lot more. And Ellison isn't exactly a receiving corps acquisition. In four years, he's caught as many balls as Will Tye did last year.
Granted, game speed is different, but Shockey was outrunning some DB's his rookie year. I'm no Shockey sympathizer but it's all relative to era.
Now some 15 yrs later, Engram clocked 4.42. I don't think that's the fastest. TE Vernon Davis posted a 4.38 in 2006.
Gotta reconcile those two facts and will always wonder, as good as he is, if we weren't better off replacing a less worthy player than Shep.
Our two offseason free agent acquisitions were already spent on the receiving corp with Ellison and Marshall.
Having said all that, I also trust our front office and HC to make the right decisions and to also weigh the alternatives at the 23rd. spot.
Engram is not replacing Shep. Yes he may cost him some snaps, but Shep will still be an important piece to the offense. Lewis may lose the most snaps barring any injuries, but that's no reason to not draft Engram. It wouldn't make sense to not draft a super receiving threat TE because of the upside of an UDFA receiver with some upside.
I like Lewis and he's a good 3-4 receiver right now, but I think Engram will put away any doubts of why we took him at 23.
Is that a serious thing?
Everything is speculation at this point, but wow, the potential to give opposing DCs a weekly headache is immense!
Is that a serious thing?
I'm worried that Marshall and Engram may keep Darius Powe from making the final 53.
Does that make me a bad person?
Family first!
#1 - Any snaps Lewis loses will be because of Marshall, not Engram. Will Tye will lose snaps to Engram.
#2 - Even if Lewis lost snaps to Engram, why does it bother you that the #5 or #6 WR loses snaps to The #1 TE who is faster and a bigger threat?
#3) Shepard won't lose many snaps to Engram, but even if he does, if it creates a better offense why should that bother you?
Exactly! Not only is it a great problem to have, but who cares, right. If the offense is that much better, I don't care who gets the catches. If the numbers are suppressed individually and not in totality then that is a good sign.
Engram will likely cut into the snaps for Shepard, Marshall, and Ellison while potentially pushing either Tye or Adams off the roster. But based on his scouting reports, he's (potentially) exactly what this offense needs...someone to get down the seam and pressure the safeties. And football is a game of matchups and whether he's lined up in the slot or inline, he should create matchup problems for Ds. He and BM will be welcome additions in that regard as Beckham was really the only matchup problem on the offense last year.
Gotta reconcile those two facts and will always wonder, as good as he is, if we weren't better off replacing a less worthy player than Shep.
Our two offseason free agent acquisitions were already spent on the receiving corp with Ellison and Marshall.
Having said all that, I also trust our front office and HC to make the right decisions and to also weigh the alternatives at the 23rd. spot.
Again.. people keep getting this wrong.. first of all Lewis has seven catches last year..
Shepard is not going to be the issue here. They will be able to play multiple personnel packages of which Shepard will be in many of them.
The person who its going to cost snaps is Will Tye who played in 65% of the offensive snaps last year. Engram might even cost him his job.
Giants played 1062 snaps on offense last year.
Will Tye played 682 of those snaps 64.12%...
think bout that for a second.. Will Tye played 65% of the Giants offensive snap counts..
Would you rather have Will Tye out there 65% of the time.. or Evan Engram out there 65% of the time??
Why is it when Green Bay can trot out Jordy Nelson and Devante Adams. and Randall Cobb and Jared Cook and have Eddy Lacey AND Ty Montgomery we scream about their diversity on offense..
but when its the Giants.. its.. OH NO there arent enough football to go around..
Its like we dont understand that football is about creating mismatches
Engram, on the other hand, looks to be ultra-aggressive, hard-nosed football player on the field. His pure speed combined with his aggressiveness/fearlessness over the middle - I think we're in for something special that may catch the league off guard.
Even Jordan Reed - the guy Engram is most often compared to - ran 4.72 with a 1.66 10 split. (And surprise, surprise: Reed was hurt at the Combine.)
Engram? 4.42 with a 1.56. And does not come with any of the "soft" or "injury prone" labels other speedy TE's have.
As far as size? He's not big, but he's not small either. (He's almost an inch taller than Reed and also out-benched him.) He would be a poor fit in the TC/KG offense but in a West Coast Offense? His size is not a concern.
Remember when you called Carlos Emmons a coward and it turned out he had a separated shoulder? Probably not, because you were too busy making up more faux insider shit.
I bet if you tried to steamroll Vernon Davis at home plate, he'd jam your rectum right up your fucking esophagus.
Engram is going to make this offense much more unpredictable since he can split out like a WR or play in line or play the slot. If Shepard or Lewis lose playing time because of it so be it.
The main problem with the offense last year was too much 11 personnel and no imagination. This year 11 personnel will be better but more importantly so will all the other formations.
cra-cra
Kind of like being concerned Thabiti Davis might lose snaps because the Giants drafted a guy name Shockey.
Great pick.
How great is it that now, where ever the match up is there is a play-maker on the other end of it. That's impressive.
Gotta reconcile those two facts and will always wonder, as good as he is, if we weren't better off replacing a less worthy player than Shep.
Our two offseason free agent acquisitions were already spent on the receiving corp with Ellison and Marshall.
Having said all that, I also trust our front office and HC to make the right decisions and to also weigh the alternatives at the 23rd. spot.
It's a team sport not a stage for individuals to build a personal statistical database. While it's true that when you have more options, individual players will will be forced to share opportunities. And ultimately, that is for the good of the team.
By having a plethora of good receivers, all of them will end up sitting more than if they are the only player (or one of a couple players) on the team who can move the ball. Having as many receivers as the Giants have means every receiver including OBJ, Marshall, Shepard, etc., will get less opportunities. But that is good. Because that way they'll be better rested and taking less punishment to the body and less prone to injury and will probably work harder so that when they are targeted, they will do everything in their power to make the play.
It's about the team - not individuals. I'd rather have another Lombardi trophy added to the showcase then have a couple of future HOF players while never bringing home the trophy (the reason we play the game).
And its like everyone has forgotten that Adams is a TE on the team as well. The Giants SHOULD be very multiple on offense this year.. able to utilize almost any package and formation they want to.
11 personnel
its used by the league over 50 percent of the time.. Now who is IN that personnel.. and whether they switch in an OUT of that personnel or formation is another issue entirely..
Just looking at a post on Personnel groupings and thinking about the Giants. It seems that 11 Personnel is the dominant package for NFL teams who play out of it more than 50% of the time.
I think the issue with the Giants is WHO makes up that group. They have the flexibility to utilize different players in that group and now they have the ability to
"be Multiple" in terms of which formation or set they are in.
For example I was looking and thinking..
They could come out in a 12 Personnel package.. One RB, 2 TE's and 2 WR's with Perkins, Ellison, Marshall, OBJ, Engram. Then they could flex Engram out wide into an 11 Personnel package with Engram being a WR. They could also do the reverse.
They can easily use 00, 01, 02(a favorite of the Patriots when they had Hernandez), 10, 11, 12, even 13 which idiotsavant has pointed out several times
They could use a 20 package with 3 WR's and 2 RB's with Perkins and Vereen on the field could become a 10 with Vereen being used as a WR.. Or they could put Engram in the backfield as an Hback with Perkins OR Vereen. They could put Engram and Vereen in the backfield and then switch to either a 00 or Five WR's with Engram and Vereen becoming receivers.. OR they go to a 10 with Vereen staying in at RB and Engram being the 4th WR
Because of the personnel they should be able to show a defense multiple looks and multiple formation and better disguise what they are doing or change to one formation or another to potentially exploit a defense.
This is also why people worrying about Engram cutting into Shepard's snaps is somewhat overblown. There are at least 6 of these formations that utilize a minimum of 3 receivers. And with Engram being a Move TE or Hback (he has lined up in the backfield in college) both Engram and Shepard can be on the field at the same time in at least 4 of these formations..
It will be interesting to see what McAdoo does with the tools he has now..
An increase in Offensive plays well may lead to more snaps for Shephard as well as everyone else on the O
Don't bet on it.
Is that a serious thing?
Yes. Snap counts are big these days. Points scored and winning are over rated if you don't win your Fantasy League if you pick Sheppard
Davis is the only one we've come up woth and he was over 10 years ago!
And Shepard wasnt good enough last year to care about less snaps either.
And another thing: Rhett got good $$$ but hes not exactly paid as an everydown player. Hes paid as a solid role player.
Also, looking at WAS snap counts, the receiver numbers weren't very affected by either Reed or Davis. The WR snap % was very similar between 2015 and 2016, especially among the starters, while the TE snap % went up for their receiving TEs.
He thinks a deal is IMMINENT.
Too bad Sodor has him locked up for 5 more years.
What else seems great is that he appears to be pretty natural as a receiver as well. Good hands-catcher, pretty good route runner, adjusts his running well (kind of the anti-Donnell).
What will limit his snap count is how quickly he picks up the offense. Hearing about him diving into the playbook with uber-worker Webb is good news. Also, Mayock calling him "probably the cleanest player in the draft" is a bright sign as well.
Future looks bright for this young rookie. Lots of reasons for Giants fans to be optimistic about him.
To Njoku, especially if he does well. Is tue that Njoku cancelled his visit to the Giants ? That whole incident remains a mystery.
Quote:
In your standard TE formation. Slot, HBack yes. Ellison and Tye will.
Don't bet on it.
Really don't bet on it. Tye isn't playing over engram and/or Ellison.