That's a big man. He doesn't ever have to be a ballerina or smooth. He learns to keep his weight over his knees, just a little quicker and balanced and they're not going to go through him. He can learn to shut down the inside and if they go around them (and even if he can't stay attached and mirrored) just make it a long trip.
That I think that is the downside. The upside is premium and I think given his strength, size and proven commitment we just might see that.
In instances like this the stories not told yet, all contemplations are hostage to what happens next and valid or invalid dependent on that.
If that makes any sense on an early morning.
He's giving us hope and it wouldn't take much...imagine a top five defense and a top five offense...it's moving from "Unlikely" to "more likely than not".
losing the belly should improve his balance as well as his mid-section strength.
Looks like he's very serious about becoming a better player. I couldn't be happier for him and will be rooting for him to be the player we all hoped we were getting when we drafted him. Very pleased to see this.
is generally a more level headed poster that sees the big picture. I was unaware that he was a Flowers defender, but I guess that means he was being sarcastic.
and logic says that getting in much better shape will help with ALL aspects of the game. Being less tired means (hopefully) less mental errors and more confidence in your abilities.
Keith, that was mainly meant to mock a couple posters who only care about what he's done for technique as he implication was if he's working to get in better shape he wasn't also working on the things he wasn't good at.
Because there's no way to judge technique at this stage of the game - no pads, no contact - so to expect any realistic assessment of Flowers' technique now would be ridiculous, and UConn isn't usually the ridiculous type, therefore, the odds are that he was being sarcastic.
1. Do you think getting in shape is a full time job where he can't do both. Get healthier and stronger AND work on his technique?
2. Do you think getting in better shape won't help him be a better LT?
It's a step in the right direction. It shows that he's motivated and willing to work to become better. It shows me that he wants to be better.
Don't waste your time, Keith. You're beating a dead horse trying to reason with the mouthbreathers. It's the same cast of characters that whine, bitch, moan and complain about EVERYTHING. Flowers is working hard to get better, and they still cry. It's amazing. As if getting in better shape is proof that he's not working hard on technique. And they think like this because they, themselves can't walk and chew gum at the same time, so how could Flowers possibly be working on multiple areas that need work? That's impossible!
Why shouldn't he defend him? The guy is working hard to get better. If he came in out of shape, you may have a point. But again, you are one of the most negative posters on the site so I'm not surprised that you find something to cry about when a guy is busting his ass. It's 24/7 with you and some others.
Why shouldn't he defend him? The guy is working hard to get better. If he came in out of shape, you may have a point. But again, you are one of the most negative posters on the site so I'm not surprised that you find something to cry about when a guy is busting his ass. It's 24/7 with you and some others.
It is a Shock that your reading comprehension is lacking. Go read the entire thread. I made a single response. No where in the succinct response did I criticize Flowers' fitness, technique, motivation, etc. So who is crying? I'm not crying about anything. Try again.
Why shouldn't he defend him? The guy is working hard to get better. If he came in out of shape, you may have a point. But again, you are one of the most negative posters on the site so I'm not surprised that you find something to cry about when a guy is busting his ass. It's 24/7 with you and some others.
It is a Shock that your reading comprehension is lacking. Go read the entire thread. I made a single response. No where in the succinct response did I criticize Flowers' fitness, technique, motivation, etc. So who is crying? I'm not crying about anything. Try again.
Are you suggesting that you haven't complained about him at all the past few weeks? On any of the "Flowers is in great shape" type threads?
IMHO losing the belly is a gain in his self-confidence and he will
Ereck's problem according to BBI is not size, strength, or talent, but lack of consistency in his pass blocking technique. I have read that when he uses the proper technique he has performed very well and that when he doesn't, he performs dismally.
So here's the question: When he fails to use the proper technique is it:
a) because he is too dumb to realize what he needs to do, or is it
b) because he lacks confidence in himself and grabs or tackles the DE, instead of using the proper technique?
My conclusion is that it is b) his lack of confidence.
If you play tennis, you will understand my reasoning. You may have a killer serve and steady ground strokes, but when you advance to the net in singles, or when you play the net in doubles, you may lose confidence in your game. Why?
At the net, there is a lot less time to react. The ball is coming a lot faster. You may be a little afraid that you will be hit by the ball because your reflexes are not fast enough to return the hard hit ball that your opponent has aimed at your head (which is where I would have aimed it because I'm not good at hitting top-spin lobs or passing shots).
Instead of standing your ground and trusting that you will get your racket in front of the ball, you tense up and mishit the ball. Even worse, I've seen players flinch or even try to duck behind the net (which insures that I'm going for your head whenever I get the chance).
With evenly matched tennis players, there IS time. You DO have the reflexes to play net and return shots hit right at you. It is just a matter of confidence and trust in your abilities.
Flowers has exerted control over his body. He SHOULD feel good about himself knowing that he has made himself a better player. I'm guessing (and hoping) that by improving his shape, his strength, and his technique, he will have more confidence in his ability to use good technique even when that figurative tennis ball is aimed directly at his head.
Why shouldn't he defend him? The guy is working hard to get better. If he came in out of shape, you may have a point. But again, you are one of the most negative posters on the site so I'm not surprised that you find something to cry about when a guy is busting his ass. It's 24/7 with you and some others.
It is a Shock that your reading comprehension is lacking. Go read the entire thread. I made a single response. No where in the succinct response did I criticize Flowers' fitness, technique, motivation, etc. So who is crying? I'm not crying about anything. Try again.
Are you suggesting that you haven't complained about him at all the past few weeks? On any of the "Flowers is in great shape" type threads?
By all means, do your research. I have not complained about him. Everyone knows my position on him, Pugh, and OL in general. I gave up discussing them. Let them prove me wrong. When they don't, I'll be quick to point out their failings. Until then, it is speculation.
He's a tough kid and tries hard. I think his poor technique sometimes has the refs calling things that look bad but shouldn't draw flags. All lineman will be better if they are quicker off the ball so this new conditioning could help some. It is true though that coordination is just god given so it remains to be seen if he will improve enough. Flowers is a player to root for though.
EF needs to get his head, his mind in better shape too
Whatever the reason(s), during his first two seasons here he does not seem to have taken to the teaching, the coaching--yes, the training as to technique--under two different, veteran coaches. Whatever the pace of learning, or resistance to learning, the coaches--and we fans--would like to see tangible progress that he can shed bad habits, the many of the same poor habits he has had since his college career, which led many draft pundits to criticize the pick of Flowers at #9 overall.
Is there reason to believe he cannot bend his mind around the teaching and have his feet, torso, bend, and arms follow? This seems to be a real question, and Year 3 is the time for Ereck to put that to rest.
grizz, nice post.
mavric, what you are really saying is we want him to be Gabriel Allon-esque in his cat-like moves!!
Why is anyone dismissing this? Of course it's a positive.
Exactly. Really all that needs to be said. Of course there's more to his improvement that getting in better shape, but by all accounts he's clearly applying himself this offseason
There are very few people that believe that Flowers will improve this season and come at least a dependable LT. His technique was horrible when he was drafted and I remember reading a scouting report that was posted on BBI that said Flowers had the sloppiest technique that he had ever seen. Improving technique is not something that happens over night. You have to train yourself to the point where it becomes natural. Also Flowers reportedly didn't take too well to coaching but now with all the criticism that he has received he appears to have learned from his mistakes. Only time will tell. Hopefully in a year from now we are discussing signing Flowers to a long term extension rather than replacing him at LT.
RE: Why is anyone dismissing this? Of course it's a positive.
People need to complain about everything. It looks to me like he's lost 30 pounds. How can that not help? And as someone said, he could be working on his technique at the same time. The two are not mutually exclusive. I think he's going to have a good year.
Let's him get up .1/second faster and into passpro,and improvement in technique, we may see what the FO hoped for.
I think we will, rooting hard for the kid.
Think what'll mean for Eli and all those weapons.
use the 9th pick in the draft on a player who is such a huge gamble. He has size and attitude but also poor technique and may never get past that factor. The 9th pick should not have all these issues IMO. A pick that high should contribute right away. If he turns the corner we may not resign him anyway, looking at our record in that regard.
use the 9th pick in the draft on a player who is such a huge gamble. He has size and attitude but also poor technique and may never get past that factor. The 9th pick should not have all these issues IMO. A pick that high should contribute right away. If he turns the corner we may not resign him anyway, looking at our record in that regard.
He started 15 games as a rookie, 16 last year. I'd say that's contributing right away.
As for re-signing him, if he becomes a solid Left Tackle we'll re-sign him. The record shows we did that with David Diehl and Will Beatty.
The young man is working his ass off. I'm pulling for him
I'm pulling for him too. Not only for him as a human being who wants to do his best BUT as a freaking fan who knows if has a strong season so does this offense.
use the 9th pick in the draft on a player who is such a huge gamble. He has size and attitude but also poor technique and may never get past that factor. The 9th pick should not have all these issues IMO. A pick that high should contribute right away. If he turns the corner we may not resign him anyway, looking at our record in that regard.
You have to remember the context of the pick when it happened. Pat Flaherty was the OL coach. He was considered to be one of the best in the league at it. He was no doubt consulted when they were considering the pick.
Why wouldn't they have confidence that he could work with Flowers? The gamble had huge upside considering that if he does get fixed, he has prototypical size and strength to be a dominant player at that position.
Flowers is a clear disappointment but still has this season
Even if it were only for 2 or 3 years, this guy's technique and style of play would've been the final piece to the offensive puzzle for us in my opinion. Detailed Breakdown of Thomas - ( New Window )
RE: I would've given up a 2nd rd pick for Joe Thomas
Even if it were only for 2 or 3 years, this guy's technique and style of play would've been the final piece to the offensive puzzle for us in my opinion. Detailed Breakdown of Thomas - ( New Window )
The same Joe Thomas who already talked about suffering some memory loss? Why is he even brought up anymore? And enough with the 2nd pick garbage, zero chance Cleveland would have parted with him for that anyway.
Thanks for the video. Flowers had Art Kehoe at UM, one of the best in the business, and two years of Giant coaching. You would think that it would sink in his head you cant just body block people.
use the 9th pick in the draft on a player who is such a huge gamble. He has size and attitude but also poor technique and may never get past that factor. The 9th pick should not have all these issues IMO. A pick that high should contribute right away. If he turns the corner we may not resign him anyway, looking at our record in that regard.
You have to remember the context of the pick when it happened. Pat Flaherty was the OL coach. He was considered to be one of the best in the league at it. He was no doubt consulted when they were considering the pick.
Why wouldn't they have confidence that he could work with Flowers? The gamble had huge upside considering that if he does get fixed, he has prototypical size and strength to be a dominant player at that position.
Hammer good points and I accept your premise. No doubt OLT is a huge position for a team with a pocket passer like ELI . Still hoping it works out . Just jealous looking at who Dallas got in the same round at that position.
RE: I would've given up a 2nd rd pick for Joe Thomas
UConn4523 : 5/28/2017 7:24 am : link : reply
In comment 13484221 HitSquad said:
Quote:
Even if it were only for 2 or 3 years, this guy's technique and style of play would've been the final piece to the offensive puzzle for us in my opinion. Detailed Breakdown of Thomas - ( New Window )
The same Joe Thomas who already talked about suffering some memory loss? Why is he even brought up anymore? And enough with the 2nd pick garbage, zero chance Cleveland would have parted with him for that anyway.
Are you kidding? Cleveland is in rebuild mode......this guy is not part of their plan....someone offers me a second round pick, and I can create 11.5M in cap space? Where do I sign?
RE: Still question why we would
Klaatu : 5/27/2017 4:10 pm : link : reply
In comment 13484050 TMS said:
Quote:
use the 9th pick in the draft on a player who is such a huge gamble. He has size and attitude but also poor technique and may never get past that factor. The 9th pick should not have all these issues IMO. A pick that high should contribute right away. If he turns the corner we may not resign him anyway, looking at our record in that regard.
He started 15 games as a rookie, 16 last year. I'd say that's contributing right away.
Well, if your definition of contributing, is getting Eli killed, I agree.....
RE: I would've given up a 2nd rd pick for Joe Thomas
UConn4523 : 5/28/2017 7:24 am : link : reply
In comment 13484221 HitSquad said:
Quote:
Even if it were only for 2 or 3 years, this guy's technique and style of play would've been the final piece to the offensive puzzle for us in my opinion. Detailed Breakdown of Thomas - ( New Window )
The same Joe Thomas who already talked about suffering some memory loss? Why is he even brought up anymore? And enough with the 2nd pick garbage, zero chance Cleveland would have parted with him for that anyway.
Are you kidding? Cleveland is in rebuild mode......this guy is not part of their plan....someone offers me a second round pick, and I can create 11.5M in cap space? Where do I sign?
Rebuild mode? If they are convinced he plays for another 3 years why wouldn't they want him to stay and help the line and the team....rebuild? If he's in the decline (very realistic) why would we want him at all at that price?
Go ahead and ignore the memory loss comments from Thomas himself, i'm sure he's just shooting from the hip...
who in their right mind would give up a 2 for him now?? Think about how valuable it is to hit on your 2's. Thomas is at the very end and his motivation is certainly in question.
That I think that is the downside. The upside is premium and I think given his strength, size and proven commitment we just might see that.
In instances like this the stories not told yet, all contemplations are hostage to what happens next and valid or invalid dependent on that.
If that makes any sense on an early morning.
He's giving us hope and it wouldn't take much...imagine a top five defense and a top five offense...it's moving from "Unlikely" to "more likely than not".
Looks like he's very serious about becoming a better player. I couldn't be happier for him and will be rooting for him to be the player we all hoped we were getting when we drafted him. Very pleased to see this.
...will he become a reliable tackle in this league, or just another first round draft bust?
If the former, I'm betting the Giants go far into the playoffs.
And if the latter, another year gone by on the Eli Manning time clock.
I have to assume this is sarcasm. Please confirm.
2. Do you think getting in better shape won't help him be a better LT?
It's a step in the right direction. It shows that he's motivated and willing to work to become better. It shows me that he wants to be better.
Because UConn is one of Flowers' defenders.
Keith, that was mainly meant to mock a couple posters who only care about what he's done for technique as he implication was if he's working to get in better shape he wasn't also working on the things he wasn't good at.
Because there's no way to judge technique at this stage of the game - no pads, no contact - so to expect any realistic assessment of Flowers' technique now would be ridiculous, and UConn isn't usually the ridiculous type, therefore, the odds are that he was being sarcastic.
2. Do you think getting in better shape won't help him be a better LT?
It's a step in the right direction. It shows that he's motivated and willing to work to become better. It shows me that he wants to be better.
Don't waste your time, Keith. You're beating a dead horse trying to reason with the mouthbreathers. It's the same cast of characters that whine, bitch, moan and complain about EVERYTHING. Flowers is working hard to get better, and they still cry. It's amazing. As if getting in better shape is proof that he's not working hard on technique. And they think like this because they, themselves can't walk and chew gum at the same time, so how could Flowers possibly be working on multiple areas that need work? That's impossible!
Quote:
sarcasm?
Because UConn is one of Flowers' defenders.
Why shouldn't he defend him? The guy is working hard to get better. If he came in out of shape, you may have a point. But again, you are one of the most negative posters on the site so I'm not surprised that you find something to cry about when a guy is busting his ass. It's 24/7 with you and some others.
Quote:
In comment 13483849 area junc said:
Quote:
sarcasm?
Because UConn is one of Flowers' defenders.
Why shouldn't he defend him? The guy is working hard to get better. If he came in out of shape, you may have a point. But again, you are one of the most negative posters on the site so I'm not surprised that you find something to cry about when a guy is busting his ass. It's 24/7 with you and some others.
It is a Shock that your reading comprehension is lacking. Go read the entire thread. I made a single response. No where in the succinct response did I criticize Flowers' fitness, technique, motivation, etc. So who is crying? I'm not crying about anything. Try again.
Quote:
In comment 13483853 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 13483849 area junc said:
Quote:
sarcasm?
Because UConn is one of Flowers' defenders.
Why shouldn't he defend him? The guy is working hard to get better. If he came in out of shape, you may have a point. But again, you are one of the most negative posters on the site so I'm not surprised that you find something to cry about when a guy is busting his ass. It's 24/7 with you and some others.
It is a Shock that your reading comprehension is lacking. Go read the entire thread. I made a single response. No where in the succinct response did I criticize Flowers' fitness, technique, motivation, etc. So who is crying? I'm not crying about anything. Try again.
Are you suggesting that you haven't complained about him at all the past few weeks? On any of the "Flowers is in great shape" type threads?
Ereck's problem according to BBI is not size, strength, or talent, but lack of consistency in his pass blocking technique. I have read that when he uses the proper technique he has performed very well and that when he doesn't, he performs dismally.
So here's the question: When he fails to use the proper technique is it:
a) because he is too dumb to realize what he needs to do, or is it
b) because he lacks confidence in himself and grabs or tackles the DE, instead of using the proper technique?
My conclusion is that it is b) his lack of confidence.
If you play tennis, you will understand my reasoning. You may have a killer serve and steady ground strokes, but when you advance to the net in singles, or when you play the net in doubles, you may lose confidence in your game. Why?
At the net, there is a lot less time to react. The ball is coming a lot faster. You may be a little afraid that you will be hit by the ball because your reflexes are not fast enough to return the hard hit ball that your opponent has aimed at your head (which is where I would have aimed it because I'm not good at hitting top-spin lobs or passing shots).
Instead of standing your ground and trusting that you will get your racket in front of the ball, you tense up and mishit the ball. Even worse, I've seen players flinch or even try to duck behind the net (which insures that I'm going for your head whenever I get the chance).
With evenly matched tennis players, there IS time. You DO have the reflexes to play net and return shots hit right at you. It is just a matter of confidence and trust in your abilities.
Flowers has exerted control over his body. He SHOULD feel good about himself knowing that he has made himself a better player. I'm guessing (and hoping) that by improving his shape, his strength, and his technique, he will have more confidence in his ability to use good technique even when that figurative tennis ball is aimed directly at his head.
Quote:
In comment 13483861 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13483853 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 13483849 area junc said:
Quote:
sarcasm?
Because UConn is one of Flowers' defenders.
Why shouldn't he defend him? The guy is working hard to get better. If he came in out of shape, you may have a point. But again, you are one of the most negative posters on the site so I'm not surprised that you find something to cry about when a guy is busting his ass. It's 24/7 with you and some others.
It is a Shock that your reading comprehension is lacking. Go read the entire thread. I made a single response. No where in the succinct response did I criticize Flowers' fitness, technique, motivation, etc. So who is crying? I'm not crying about anything. Try again.
Are you suggesting that you haven't complained about him at all the past few weeks? On any of the "Flowers is in great shape" type threads?
By all means, do your research. I have not complained about him. Everyone knows my position on him, Pugh, and OL in general. I gave up discussing them. Let them prove me wrong. When they don't, I'll be quick to point out their failings. Until then, it is speculation.
Is there reason to believe he cannot bend his mind around the teaching and have his feet, torso, bend, and arms follow? This seems to be a real question, and Year 3 is the time for Ereck to put that to rest.
grizz, nice post.
mavric, what you are really saying is we want him to be Gabriel Allon-esque in his cat-like moves!!
Exactly. Really all that needs to be said. Of course there's more to his improvement that getting in better shape, but by all accounts he's clearly applying himself this offseason
People need to complain about everything. It looks to me like he's lost 30 pounds. How can that not help? And as someone said, he could be working on his technique at the same time. The two are not mutually exclusive. I think he's going to have a good year.
I think we will, rooting hard for the kid.
Think what'll mean for Eli and all those weapons.
He started 15 games as a rookie, 16 last year. I'd say that's contributing right away.
As for re-signing him, if he becomes a solid Left Tackle we'll re-sign him. The record shows we did that with David Diehl and Will Beatty.
And remember, dahlings, it is better to look good than to feel good, and you know who you are.
Never underestimate some on BBI.
Go Giants!
You have to remember the context of the pick when it happened. Pat Flaherty was the OL coach. He was considered to be one of the best in the league at it. He was no doubt consulted when they were considering the pick.
Why wouldn't they have confidence that he could work with Flowers? The gamble had huge upside considering that if he does get fixed, he has prototypical size and strength to be a dominant player at that position.
I don't have a lot of confidence in him making a dramatic change for the better but I really hope he proves me wrong...
The coach/narrator breaks down Flower's flaws at the 11:08 mark and addresses a bunch of the other offense's flaws that we've complained about.
Very good insight here.
New York Giants Offense - ( New Window )
Detailed Breakdown of Thomas - ( New Window )
The same Joe Thomas who already talked about suffering some memory loss? Why is he even brought up anymore? And enough with the 2nd pick garbage, zero chance Cleveland would have parted with him for that anyway.
Quote:
use the 9th pick in the draft on a player who is such a huge gamble. He has size and attitude but also poor technique and may never get past that factor. The 9th pick should not have all these issues IMO. A pick that high should contribute right away. If he turns the corner we may not resign him anyway, looking at our record in that regard.
You have to remember the context of the pick when it happened. Pat Flaherty was the OL coach. He was considered to be one of the best in the league at it. He was no doubt consulted when they were considering the pick.
Why wouldn't they have confidence that he could work with Flowers? The gamble had huge upside considering that if he does get fixed, he has prototypical size and strength to be a dominant player at that position.
UConn4523 : 5/28/2017 7:24 am : link : reply
In comment 13484221 HitSquad said:
Quote:
Even if it were only for 2 or 3 years, this guy's technique and style of play would've been the final piece to the offensive puzzle for us in my opinion. Detailed Breakdown of Thomas - ( New Window )
The same Joe Thomas who already talked about suffering some memory loss? Why is he even brought up anymore? And enough with the 2nd pick garbage, zero chance Cleveland would have parted with him for that anyway.
Are you kidding? Cleveland is in rebuild mode......this guy is not part of their plan....someone offers me a second round pick, and I can create 11.5M in cap space? Where do I sign?
Klaatu : 5/27/2017 4:10 pm : link : reply
In comment 13484050 TMS said:
Quote:
use the 9th pick in the draft on a player who is such a huge gamble. He has size and attitude but also poor technique and may never get past that factor. The 9th pick should not have all these issues IMO. A pick that high should contribute right away. If he turns the corner we may not resign him anyway, looking at our record in that regard.
He started 15 games as a rookie, 16 last year. I'd say that's contributing right away.
Well, if your definition of contributing, is getting Eli killed, I agree.....
UConn4523 : 5/28/2017 7:24 am : link : reply
In comment 13484221 HitSquad said:
Quote:
Even if it were only for 2 or 3 years, this guy's technique and style of play would've been the final piece to the offensive puzzle for us in my opinion. Detailed Breakdown of Thomas - ( New Window )
The same Joe Thomas who already talked about suffering some memory loss? Why is he even brought up anymore? And enough with the 2nd pick garbage, zero chance Cleveland would have parted with him for that anyway.
Are you kidding? Cleveland is in rebuild mode......this guy is not part of their plan....someone offers me a second round pick, and I can create 11.5M in cap space? Where do I sign?
Rebuild mode? If they are convinced he plays for another 3 years why wouldn't they want him to stay and help the line and the team....rebuild? If he's in the decline (very realistic) why would we want him at all at that price?
Go ahead and ignore the memory loss comments from Thomas himself, i'm sure he's just shooting from the hip...