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NFT: Fantasy Football thoughts on Giants

wgenesis123 : 5/29/2017 1:20 am
Who on the Giants do you want on your team this year. I almost never get a shot at Odell so I will target Marshall. Eli, and the defense. If he last long enough in the draft, would jump on Engram too! I want a running back early and that won't be a Giant.
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that's fair  
YAJ2112 : 5/30/2017 9:38 am : link
I guess I was questioning the use of late round. To me rounds 7-9 isn't late.
True,  
Keith : 5/30/2017 9:47 am : link
I probably should have worded it middle to late rounds.
You guys can do what you want...  
EricJ : 5/30/2017 9:47 am : link
select OBJ with a top 5 pick if you want. You will either hit a home run with it or will be kicking yourself due to the ball being spread around. I am just not willing to take a risk like that with a high 1st round pick. You pick the guaranteed points (excluding injury of course).

Now, regarding the rest of our offensive weapons. Do not reach my friends. Let everyone else jump and pick the rest of our guys due to a renewed optimism about the offense. Remember this... there is ONE ball. How can all of these guys have a solid fantasy season? Eli is still having a few issues and his offensive line to me is the same line that he had last year causing him to have to check out of plays and rush the ball out before checking all of his options.

If Marshall or anyone else is still out there in the back half of the draft then fine. Want to select our RB? Really? When was the last time a Giants RB was relevant in fantasy? We also have Vereen and we drafted a guy.

With all of this uncertainty it makes it difficult to spend picks on these guys when you have players on other teams who you KNOW will give you consistent points week in and week out.

I am just waiting for people to go nuts drafting Beast Mode.
Eric,  
Keith : 5/30/2017 9:48 am : link
who are the 8 players you are taking over OBJ?
Nobody is going to be kicking themselves taking Odell, thats  
Keith : 5/30/2017 9:53 am : link
just dumb.

3 years in the NFL:
91-1305-12(in 12 games)
96-1450-13(in 15 games)
101-1367-10

The dude is arguably the best WR in the NFL. If not, he's in the conversation. They will spread the ball around amongst everyone else, but OBJ is going to get his. I think you can make a better case that they other weapons will open things up for OBJ and allow him more space to do more damage.

100-1500-15 is definitely a possibility. Friends, please ignore Eric and draft OBJ in the first half of the first round, you will not be disappointed.
RE: You guys can do what you want...  
SimpleMan : 5/30/2017 9:55 am : link
In comment 13485252 EricJ said:
Quote:
select OBJ with a top 5 pick if you want. You will either hit a home run with it or will be kicking yourself due to the ball being spread around. I am just not willing to take a risk like that with a high 1st round pick. You pick the guaranteed points (excluding injury of course).

Now, regarding the rest of our offensive weapons. Do not reach my friends. Let everyone else jump and pick the rest of our guys due to a renewed optimism about the offense. Remember this... there is ONE ball. How can all of these guys have a solid fantasy season? Eli is still having a few issues and his offensive line to me is the same line that he had last year causing him to have to check out of plays and rush the ball out before checking all of his options.

If Marshall or anyone else is still out there in the back half of the draft then fine. Want to select our RB? Really? When was the last time a Giants RB was relevant in fantasy? We also have Vereen and we drafted a guy.

With all of this uncertainty it makes it difficult to spend picks on these guys when you have players on other teams who you KNOW will give you consistent points week in and week out.

I am just waiting for people to go nuts drafting Beast Mode.


What WRs do are you taking over OBJ? Just curious...

As for Beast Mode, my main league is loaded with Raiders fans so I am looking forward to them falling all over themselves trying to get him. I see a 31 year old with high mileage who hasn't played in a year. Have at him.
Giants I'd draft/consider in FFL  
pjcas18 : 5/30/2017 9:59 am : link
and keeper league vs non keeper league matters (assume 12-team league; 10 team adjust up a round or so):

Beckham: 1st round, top 3 to 5 pick, only players I can see realistically taking over Beckham are Bell, Brown, David Johnson and maybe Elliott. I'd take Beckham before Julio but wouldn't kill someone who reversed them.

Marshall: obviously some risk until you see how he's used, but could be a sneaky WR3/Flex in the 7 - 10 round range

Perkins: no Jennings this year, and with the addition of a blocking TE and more options more room should be there in the running game in the 8 - 10th round

Eli: I hate having Eli as my starting QB, and don't advocate for him here, but he's a good fall back/backup option to have if you don't take one of the top QB's (Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc.) and you have a starter like Cam Newton or Russell Wilson it could be one of the years with the new weapons where Eli thrives. 9th - 11th round

Shepard: not sure what to expect, only so many balls to go around, but still I see some value: 10th - 12th round

Engram: a late round target for me in a keeper league

Vereen: late round target - 14th - 16th round



RE: You guys can do what you want...  
giants#1 : 5/30/2017 9:59 am : link
In comment 13485252 EricJ said:
Quote:
select OBJ with a top 5 pick if you want. You will either hit a home run with it or will be kicking yourself due to the ball being spread around. I am just not willing to take a risk like that with a high 1st round pick. You pick the guaranteed points (excluding injury of course).

Now, regarding the rest of our offensive weapons. Do not reach my friends. Let everyone else jump and pick the rest of our guys due to a renewed optimism about the offense. Remember this... there is ONE ball. How can all of these guys have a solid fantasy season? Eli is still having a few issues and his offensive line to me is the same line that he had last year causing him to have to check out of plays and rush the ball out before checking all of his options.

If Marshall or anyone else is still out there in the back half of the draft then fine. Want to select our RB? Really? When was the last time a Giants RB was relevant in fantasy? We also have Vereen and we drafted a guy.

With all of this uncertainty it makes it difficult to spend picks on these guys when you have players on other teams who you KNOW will give you consistent points week in and week out.

I am just waiting for people to go nuts drafting Beast Mode.


That's some odd logic considering Brown and Bell are basically consensus top 5 picks despite playing on the same team.
RE: Nobody is going to be kicking themselves taking Odell, thats  
giants#1 : 5/30/2017 10:02 am : link
In comment 13485260 Keith said:
Quote:
just dumb.

3 years in the NFL:
91-1305-12(in 12 games)
96-1450-13(in 15 games)
101-1367-10

The dude is arguably the best WR in the NFL. If not, he's in the conversation. They will spread the ball around amongst everyone else, but OBJ is going to get his. I think you can make a better case that they other weapons will open things up for OBJ and allow him more space to do more damage.

100-1500-15 is definitely a possibility. Friends, please ignore Eric and draft OBJ in the first half of the first round, you will not be disappointed.


Beckham's as much as a 'lock' for 90-1300-10 as any WR with upside for considerably better numbers. A 100-1500-16 season wouldn't surprise me in the least with him. He can take just about any pass to the house and if he gets a little extra space thanks to the additions of BM and Engram, I'd expect an increase in his YAC, even if his total targets don't increase.
RE: Giants I'd draft/consider in FFL  
giants#1 : 5/30/2017 10:06 am : link
In comment 13485266 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
and keeper league vs non keeper league matters (assume 12-team league; 10 team adjust up a round or so):

Beckham: 1st round, top 3 to 5 pick, only players I can see realistically taking over Beckham are Bell, Brown, David Johnson and maybe Elliott. I'd take Beckham before Julio but wouldn't kill someone who reversed them.

Marshall: obviously some risk until you see how he's used, but could be a sneaky WR3/Flex in the 7 - 10 round range

Perkins: no Jennings this year, and with the addition of a blocking TE and more options more room should be there in the running game in the 8 - 10th round

Eli: I hate having Eli as my starting QB, and don't advocate for him here, but he's a good fall back/backup option to have if you don't take one of the top QB's (Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc.) and you have a starter like Cam Newton or Russell Wilson it could be one of the years with the new weapons where Eli thrives. 9th - 11th round

Shepard: not sure what to expect, only so many balls to go around, but still I see some value: 10th - 12th round

Engram: a late round target for me in a keeper league

Vereen: late round target - 14th - 16th round




I'm the opposite re: Eli. I love waiting on QB and grabbing a guy like Eli in the 2nd half of the draft instead of a Brady/Rodgers early on. Let's me stock up on depth at RB/WR.

Eli will be interesting this year. Does he drop due to his mediocre (fantasy wise) 2016 or does someone grab him a round or 2 higher than expected due to the additions of BM/Engram? Probably depends a lot on the makeup of your league (Giants fans vs others)
RE: Giants I'd draft/consider in FFL  
pjcas18 : 5/30/2017 10:06 am : link
In comment 13485266 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
and keeper league vs non keeper league matters (assume 12-team league; 10 team adjust up a round or so):

Beckham: 1st round, top 3 to 5 pick, only players I can see realistically taking over Beckham are Bell, Brown, David Johnson and maybe Elliott. I'd take Beckham before Julio but wouldn't kill someone who reversed them.

Marshall: obviously some risk until you see how he's used, but could be a sneaky WR3/Flex in the 7 - 10 round range

Perkins: no Jennings this year, and with the addition of a blocking TE and more options more room should be there in the running game in the 8 - 10th round

Eli: I hate having Eli as my starting QB, and don't advocate for him here, but he's a good fall back/backup option to have if you don't take one of the top QB's (Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc.) and you have a starter like Cam Newton or Russell Wilson it could be one of the years with the new weapons where Eli thrives. 9th - 11th round

Shepard: not sure what to expect, only so many balls to go around, but still I see some value: 10th - 12th round

Engram: a late round target for me in a keeper league

Vereen: late round target - 14th - 16th round




I forgot the D. If this D stays healthy, they're a top 5 Fantasy Football D, return game is questionable to me, but just based on sacks, scoring D, turnovers, etc they should be top 5.

I usually draft D and K my last two picks if I even have to draft them, sometimes I fill up my roster with players and get a D and K off waivers before the season, but I wouldn't laugh at someone who drafted the Giants D in the 13th round or so.

After the "big name" D's get drafted early like the 10th round.
No doubt.  
Keith : 5/30/2017 10:08 am : link
Gmen defense is legit and will be one of the top defenses in the game. I still won't reach for them and I think they have a good chance of dropping in most leagues that don't have giants fans.
RE: RE: Giants I'd draft/consider in FFL  
pjcas18 : 5/30/2017 10:08 am : link
In comment 13485273 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13485266 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


and keeper league vs non keeper league matters (assume 12-team league; 10 team adjust up a round or so):

Beckham: 1st round, top 3 to 5 pick, only players I can see realistically taking over Beckham are Bell, Brown, David Johnson and maybe Elliott. I'd take Beckham before Julio but wouldn't kill someone who reversed them.

Marshall: obviously some risk until you see how he's used, but could be a sneaky WR3/Flex in the 7 - 10 round range

Perkins: no Jennings this year, and with the addition of a blocking TE and more options more room should be there in the running game in the 8 - 10th round

Eli: I hate having Eli as my starting QB, and don't advocate for him here, but he's a good fall back/backup option to have if you don't take one of the top QB's (Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc.) and you have a starter like Cam Newton or Russell Wilson it could be one of the years with the new weapons where Eli thrives. 9th - 11th round

Shepard: not sure what to expect, only so many balls to go around, but still I see some value: 10th - 12th round

Engram: a late round target for me in a keeper league

Vereen: late round target - 14th - 16th round






I'm the opposite re: Eli. I love waiting on QB and grabbing a guy like Eli in the 2nd half of the draft instead of a Brady/Rodgers early on. Let's me stock up on depth at RB/WR.

Eli will be interesting this year. Does he drop due to his mediocre (fantasy wise) 2016 or does someone grab him a round or 2 higher than expected due to the additions of BM/Engram? Probably depends a lot on the makeup of your league (Giants fans vs others)


I usually do that too, just not with Eli.

I've done well in the past with getting guys like Carson Palmer or Rivers, but last year if you did this with Eli and your league is QB heavy (6pt per passing TD) you were in trouble.
To much risk going into the season with Eli  
Keith : 5/30/2017 10:10 am : link
as your starter, IMO. He's older and he's coming off a very poor season. I'd be more than happy with him as my QB2 and then if he regains form, trading my QB1 to open up a spot for Eli. I won't go into the season with him as my starter though.

great players get volume  
UConn4523 : 5/30/2017 10:12 am : link
that will never change in the NFL. Adding Marshall and Engram will probably cut into the targets a bit but they will also open up the field more for Odell. Which matters more from a fantasy standpoint? Easy answer for me.

I'm pegging Beckham for 95/1400/10

As a whole I think Giants fans follow the team closely which causes overthinking on their players (insert any other team). If Antonio Brown puts up numbers on the same team as arguably the best RB in football, there's no reason Bekcham can't either with the weapons we've added.
meant to say that line  
UConn4523 : 5/30/2017 10:13 am : link
is probably Bekcham's floor. He can certainly explode but I wouldn't expect him to fall much below that statline.
RE: RE: You guys can do what you want...  
EricJ : 5/30/2017 10:18 am : link
In comment 13485267 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13485252 EricJ said:


Quote:


select OBJ with a top 5 pick if you want. You will either hit a home run with it or will be kicking yourself due to the ball being spread around. I am just not willing to take a risk like that with a high 1st round pick. You pick the guaranteed points (excluding injury of course).

Now, regarding the rest of our offensive weapons. Do not reach my friends. Let everyone else jump and pick the rest of our guys due to a renewed optimism about the offense. Remember this... there is ONE ball. How can all of these guys have a solid fantasy season? Eli is still having a few issues and his offensive line to me is the same line that he had last year causing him to have to check out of plays and rush the ball out before checking all of his options.

If Marshall or anyone else is still out there in the back half of the draft then fine. Want to select our RB? Really? When was the last time a Giants RB was relevant in fantasy? We also have Vereen and we drafted a guy.

With all of this uncertainty it makes it difficult to spend picks on these guys when you have players on other teams who you KNOW will give you consistent points week in and week out.

I am just waiting for people to go nuts drafting Beast Mode.



That's some odd logic considering Brown and Bell are basically consensus top 5 picks despite playing on the same team.

Why is it odd logic? It was not a blanket statement about whether it works for other players on other teams. It is a statement about the Giants. Please tell me when this offense produced two top performing fantasy players? Please tell me where the confidence comes from which would make you feel comfortable spending higher picks on anyone other than OBJ this season? I like to see things proven before I use my picks. Would rather see someone else hit a home run with a guy like Marshall on this team vs me take the chance and strike out.

To answer the other question from the other poster...
I would pick Brown and Jones over OBJ. No other WR over him. Definitely Bell and Elliott over him too. I did not do any kind of draft analysis yet to go beyond that. He may or may not be my #5.
LOL  
Keith : 5/30/2017 10:19 am : link
So you make a bold proclamation that OBJ should not be drafted before pick 9 and then you can come up with 4 guys you'd draft before him and say OBJ may be 5th. LOL.
Contradict yourself much??  
Keith : 5/30/2017 10:21 am : link
In fact, I would go so far as to say that I would not select OBJ in the top 5-8 picks of the draft either this year. If he is there at the end of the first round then fine.


I would pick Brown and Jones over OBJ. No other WR over him. Definitely Bell and Elliott over him too. I did not do any kind of draft analysis yet to go beyond that. He may or may not be my #5.
RE: No doubt.  
pjcas18 : 5/30/2017 10:23 am : link
In comment 13485275 Keith said:
Quote:
Gmen defense is legit and will be one of the top defenses in the game. I still won't reach for them and I think they have a good chance of dropping in most leagues that don't have giants fans.


especially in my leagues which are 75% Patriots fans, 15% Cowboys fans, one Buccaneers fan and me.

Someone will definitely draft "Seattle D" in the 8th or 9th round (or whoever the D du jour is) and like I said I usually wait to round 16 of a 16 round draft for D. I can see taking the Giants D in the 13th round. If you look back at most drafts the 13th round is like (actual results from my last year's 12-team draft):

Mariota
Houston D
Taylor
Patriots D
Corey Coleman
Blair Walsh
Markus Wheaton
Tyler Eifert
Vikings D
Isiah Crowell
Connor Barth
Dwayne Allen
RE: To much risk going into the season with Eli  
pjcas18 : 5/30/2017 10:24 am : link
In comment 13485277 Keith said:
Quote:
as your starter, IMO. He's older and he's coming off a very poor season. I'd be more than happy with him as my QB2 and then if he regains form, trading my QB1 to open up a spot for Eli. I won't go into the season with him as my starter though.


Same here, that's what I was trying to say, he'd be a good fallback option/QB2.
Just to pick apart your ridiculous statement some more....  
Keith : 5/30/2017 10:25 am : link
You first say that OBJ is too inconsistent which is the worst thing for a fantasy team and then say you would clearly take Julio over OBJ. Go look at Julios numbers and confirm that you are taking him over OBJ. It's not that clear cut. Julio had 10 games in which he had 0 TD's. He had 7 games over 100 yardes receiving and 8 games UNDER 70 yards. Why is he clearly the pick over OBJ??
pj,  
Keith : 5/30/2017 10:27 am : link
I've always been a guy who drafts defenses in the 2nd to last round and 3rd to last round and kickers in the last round, but I think I'd be comfortable taking the Giants in like 13 as you say.
my beef with Jones still holds true  
UConn4523 : 5/30/2017 10:35 am : link
he will miss a game or two and he still doesn't get a ton of TD's. Beckham has 5 less TD's in over 2 full seasons less of games played.

Jones can of course put up a monster TD season any given year but Beckham has already done it.

Going into 2016 I was Brown/Beckham 1A and 1B with Jones behind them, that is still the case today.
RE: Just to pick apart your ridiculous statement some more....  
EricJ : 5/30/2017 10:39 am : link
In comment 13485297 Keith said:
Quote:
You first say that OBJ is too inconsistent which is the worst thing for a fantasy team and then say you would clearly take Julio over OBJ. Go look at Julios numbers and confirm that you are taking him over OBJ. It's not that clear cut. Julio had 10 games in which he had 0 TD's. He had 7 games over 100 yardes receiving and 8 games UNDER 70 yards. Why is he clearly the pick over OBJ??


My comment has nothing to do with OBJs past performance and more about the uncertainty of this offense moving forward. With the additional weapons will the ball be spread around more than in prior years? People are talking about feeding Marshall and now Engram and even Shepard, then Vereen with dump offs on third down and he was hurt last year. So, this really is not about OBJ. I am objectively looking at what this offense may do this year and to me it is unclear and since it is not clear THAT is why I drop OBJ down a bit.

It is not a knock on him at all. Has nothing to do with his talent level or past performance. It is almost as if he has moved to a new team.
If there is one thing that is clear, especially to a giants fan.  
Keith : 5/30/2017 10:44 am : link
OBJ is a generational talent. He's going to get his, it's almost a guarantee. The ball will be spread amongst everyone else, OBJ will still get his. When you have a guy that can take a 5 yard curl to the house like everyone else is standing still, you get him the ball and you get it to him often.

I think you can make a case that he will outperform last year because of the added weapons. Last year teams double and triple teamed him regularly and he still put up 101-1300-10. There was no threat of a run, no threat on the opposite side of the field and the only other weapon was Shepard. Teams can't key in on OBJ like they were able to in the past.
In response to this statement....  
Keith : 5/30/2017 10:46 am : link

I am objectively looking at what this offense may do this year and to me it is unclear and since it is not clear THAT is why I drop OBJ down a bit.

You aren't dropping him though. Your initial statement said you aren't taking him before 9, then when you were specifically asked to name the 8 players you are taking before him, you came up with 4. Most people have OBJ anywhere from 3-6 and you seem to fall into that category.
RE: RE: Just to pick apart your ridiculous statement some more....  
YAJ2112 : 5/30/2017 10:47 am : link
In comment 13485312 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 13485297 Keith said:


Quote:


You first say that OBJ is too inconsistent which is the worst thing for a fantasy team and then say you would clearly take Julio over OBJ. Go look at Julios numbers and confirm that you are taking him over OBJ. It's not that clear cut. Julio had 10 games in which he had 0 TD's. He had 7 games over 100 yardes receiving and 8 games UNDER 70 yards. Why is he clearly the pick over OBJ??



My comment has nothing to do with OBJs past performance and more about the uncertainty of this offense moving forward. With the additional weapons will the ball be spread around more than in prior years? People are talking about feeding Marshall and now Engram and even Shepard, then Vereen with dump offs on third down and he was hurt last year. So, this really is not about OBJ. I am objectively looking at what this offense may do this year and to me it is unclear and since it is not clear THAT is why I drop OBJ down a bit.

It is not a knock on him at all. Has nothing to do with his talent level or past performance. It is almost as if he has moved to a new team.


Jones has a new offensive coordinator, Freeman/Coleman to catch dumpoffs/be split out wide, Sanu, Gabriel and Austin Hooper who will all see targets as well, and has a history of nagging injuries. But apparently he's a sure thing to be the #2 overall WR.
EricJ  
UConn4523 : 5/30/2017 10:49 am : link
why aren't you factoring in less doubles/triples for coverage? Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that Beckham should have a better opportunity to bust open weaker coverage more frequently?
OBJ is the second WR off my board most likely, behind Brown.  
Keith : 5/30/2017 10:52 am : link
As far as the RB's, I'll have to wait to see how things shake out, but I'd definitely take Johnson and Bell over him. Elliot is a maybe at this point. I can't see myself taking OBJ before 4, but most likely 4-6. I don't know who else is even in that category to take before OBJ.

The other names in the rankings are McCoy, Evans, Gordon, AJ Green? I'm certainly not taking those guys over OBJ and wouldn't give it a second thought. So at worst, he's 6th if I do take Elliot and Jones over him.
RE: RE: RE: Giants I'd draft/consider in FFL  
giants#1 : 5/30/2017 11:06 am : link
In comment 13485276 pjcas18 said:
Quote:


I usually do that too, just not with Eli.

I've done well in the past with getting guys like Carson Palmer or Rivers, but last year if you did this with Eli and your league is QB heavy (6pt per passing TD) you were in trouble.


Yea, Eli was pretty bad last year. I had him in my keeper league and basically ended up streaming QBs throughout the season. Luckily my keepers were/are strong (D Johnson, Beckham, and Green) so I was able to overcome it.
RE: RE: RE: You guys can do what you want...  
giants#1 : 5/30/2017 11:08 am : link
In comment 13485289 EricJ said:
Quote:


Why is it odd logic? It was not a blanket statement about whether it works for other players on other teams. It is a statement about the Giants. Please tell me when this offense produced two top performing fantasy players? Please tell me where the confidence comes from which would make you feel comfortable spending higher picks on anyone other than OBJ this season? I like to see things proven before I use my picks. Would rather see someone else hit a home run with a guy like Marshall on this team vs me take the chance and strike out.

To answer the other question from the other poster...
I would pick Brown and Jones over OBJ. No other WR over him. Definitely Bell and Elliott over him too. I did not do any kind of draft analysis yet to go beyond that. He may or may not be my #5.


I was talking about your 'logic' as applied to Beckham not being worth a top 5-6 overall pick because the other guys would eat into his targets.
RE: EricJ  
EricJ : 5/30/2017 1:50 pm : link
In comment 13485322 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
why aren't you factoring in less doubles/triples for coverage? Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that Beckham should have a better opportunity to bust open weaker coverage more frequently?


you are correct, but you also have to factor having to give Marshall the ball and Engram since he was our top pick, Vereen back, etc etc

In the end we can agree that there is some uncertainty. I like to be as certain as possible if I am selecting in the top 5
you can find uncertainty with any player  
YAJ2112 : 5/30/2017 1:53 pm : link
seems you've chosen to weigh it a lot more with OBJ than others
By the way...  
EricJ : 5/30/2017 1:55 pm : link
I am comfortable with my methods and my rationale. It is proven to work for me. My team is near the top of whatever league I am playing in every year. I miss on selections but I miss on fewer selections than everyone else. There are players who I simply will not touch.

Example was Megatron. I told people I am not selecting him unless he is available in the 3rd round (which means I was not selecting him). The guy was hurt or he would have a gigantic game and then follow it up with nothing the following week. You need consistency. So, I opted not to draft him ever. Then, you see him put up games with one catch or come up small in some way when you would have been better off drafting a RB or another WR who can give you a guaranteed 12-15 points per week with the occasional huge game but never a shit game.

Another guy on my list like that right now is Gronk. You can have him. I watch people draft him at the end of the first round or the beginning of the 2nd. The guy is in the ice tub more than on the field. He kills your fantasy team despite his undeniable talent and occasional 3 TD games.
RE: you can find uncertainty with any player  
EricJ : 5/30/2017 1:56 pm : link
In comment 13485501 YAJ2112 said:
Quote:
seems you've chosen to weigh it a lot more with OBJ than others


again, it is not OBJ I have a problem with. It is the Giants offense and the uncertainty of what his role and ball disbursement will be with all of the new talent.

I simply cannot see why some of you guys do not see that. I am not saying dont draft the guy I just do not like him in the top 5.
If you knock or adjust your Beckham  
pjcas18 : 5/30/2017 2:00 pm : link
expectations due to Marshall and Engram wouldn't you need to adjust Brown due to Martavis Bryant coming back, no suspension for Bell, the addition of 2nd round pick JuJu Smith-Schuster, etc.

I think sometimes fans of teams look too hard at situations to justify opinions.

You can add more pieces around him, but Beckham will almost certainly get the same targets every year. Maybe even more this year as others have mentioned due to the less attention teams should be able to give him.

It's like Edelman in New England. The Patriots even with Amendola, Gronk, Bennett, White, Lewis, Hogan, Blount, Malcolm Mitchell, etc. somehow managed to target Edelman more than ever in any year this past year - and even with the injuries had more weapons than any other year.

LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/30/2017 2:01 pm : link
this is the epitome of what Beckham gives you.

Quote:
when you would have been better off drafting a RB or another WR who can give you a guaranteed 12-15 points per week with the occasional huge game but never a shit game.


His "bad" games are usually 5 catches for 70 yards and sometimes a TD!

I'd love to be in some of the leagues you're in if you are consistently winning, because the logic shown is this thread is astoundingly poor.

At that's ignoring the fact that you first said Beckham wasn't worth a first round pick that was dialed back to "not in the Top 5" even though he seems to be in your top 5.

Just a pretty bizarre take.
RE: RE: EricJ  
UConn4523 : 5/30/2017 2:09 pm : link
In comment 13485494 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 13485322 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


why aren't you factoring in less doubles/triples for coverage? Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that Beckham should have a better opportunity to bust open weaker coverage more frequently?



you are correct, but you also have to factor having to give Marshall the ball and Engram since he was our top pick, Vereen back, etc etc

In the end we can agree that there is some uncertainty. I like to be as certain as possible if I am selecting in the top 5


I am factoring it in, I said as much in a previous post. When LeVeon Bell catches 75 balls and gets another 250+ carries it doesn't prevent Antonio Brown from catching 100 balls.

There is uncertainty with any player but the truly great players get the ball in the NFL.
My point/question remains the same:  
SimpleMan : 5/30/2017 2:16 pm : link
Assuming the first four picks off the board are Bell, Zeke, David Johnson and Antonio Brown, who do you take over OBJ?

Who is more certain? In my opinion, nobody. And do not say Julio because he had some real duds last year and was pretty inconsistent.
Jones had 6 games  
UConn4523 : 5/30/2017 2:23 pm : link
with 4 catches or less (one was 1) and DNP another 2 games. Beckham had 4 games with 4 catches or less factoring in playing 2 more games than Jones.

I won't sour on anyone picking Jones over Beckham but I can't think of a reason why I would.
I know I shouldn't argue  
Keith : 5/30/2017 2:23 pm : link
with a guy that always wins, but you've said nothing ground breaking and you are contradicting yourself left and right. You make a case for Julio, but your rationale makes no sense. I too would finish at the top of my league if I played FF with a bunch of 4th graders. Nice work.
Good luck guys...  
EricJ : 5/30/2017 2:33 pm : link
and let me know if a spot opens up in your league....
I think you can certainly make a case that Julio  
Keith : 5/30/2017 2:33 pm : link
can go before OBJ. Im not saying I agree with it, I'd take OBJ, but I think you can make the case. After that though, there is nobody in the conversation. So at worst, he's 6th. Eric wanted to give us all his expert advice and told us not to draft him before 9. Who are the 2 guys that could possibly go after Bell, Johnson, Elliot, Brown and Julio??

Personally, I currently have OBJ slotted between 4-6 which is probably where most people have him. Eric is saying lots of words, but at the end of the day he's just trying to show everyone what an expert he is. There is no substance to his words.
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/30/2017 2:34 pm : link
Quote:
Personally, I currently have OBJ slotted between 4-6 which is probably where most people have him. Eric is saying lots of words, but at the end of the day he's just trying to show everyone what an expert he is. There is no substance to his words.


And ironically, EricJ said a lot of words to pretty much tell us he's slotted Beckham between 4-6.

And that he's great at fantasy football.
RE: I think you can certainly make a case that Julio  
SimpleMan : 5/30/2017 3:12 pm : link
In comment 13485560 Keith said:
Quote:
can go before OBJ. Im not saying I agree with it, I'd take OBJ, but I think you can make the case. After that though, there is nobody in the conversation. So at worst, he's 6th. Eric wanted to give us all his expert advice and told us not to draft him before 9. Who are the 2 guys that could possibly go after Bell, Johnson, Elliot, Brown and Julio??

Personally, I currently have OBJ slotted between 4-6 which is probably where most people have him. Eric is saying lots of words, but at the end of the day he's just trying to show everyone what an expert he is. There is no substance to his words.


Pretty much my point with OBJ. Personally I would take him over Julio just because Julio, despite having a great season overall last year, burned me in some crucial weeks with some major duds. But other than Julio, who can you argue over OBJ? Hard to have him ranked lower than 6 and could make a case for him being in the top 3-4.
RE: RE: Just to pick apart your ridiculous statement some more....  
djm : 5/30/2017 7:32 pm : link
In comment 13485312 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 13485297 Keith said:


Quote:


You first say that OBJ is too inconsistent which is the worst thing for a fantasy team and then say you would clearly take Julio over OBJ. Go look at Julios numbers and confirm that you are taking him over OBJ. It's not that clear cut. Julio had 10 games in which he had 0 TD's. He had 7 games over 100 yardes receiving and 8 games UNDER 70 yards. Why is he clearly the pick over OBJ??



My comment has nothing to do with OBJs past performance and more about the uncertainty of this offense moving forward. With the additional weapons will the ball be spread around more than in prior years? People are talking about feeding Marshall and now Engram and even Shepard, then Vereen with dump offs on third down and he was hurt last year. So, this really is not about OBJ. I am objectively looking at what this offense may do this year and to me it is unclear and since it is not clear THAT is why I drop OBJ down a bit.

It is not a knock on him at all. Has nothing to do with his talent level or past performance. It is almost as if he has moved to a new team.


I think you are over thinking things. Guys like obj transcend systems. Guys like obj always put up numbers. And more often than not surrounding talent helps great players it doesn't hinder them, statistically.

There is no sound argument to support the belief that Beckham will disappoint this season in FF. He's as safe a pick as any.

Plax had his best season with Eli when toomer and shockey and tiki were playing well here. Nicks had a good season whe Cruz was going off here.

Good players perform. I love when owners pass or pick guys based on logic like yours.
If you go back over the years  
djm : 5/30/2017 7:35 pm : link
And look at the players who "let down" following a great year 99% of the time that player let down because of his own short comings or the qb got hurt. Great players don't dive bomb because there weren't enough footballs to go around. It's a myth, especially in the passing era.
Why did deandre Hopkins struggle last year ?  
djm : 5/30/2017 7:42 pm : link
His qb was a mess.

Why did Braylon Edwards struggle after that two year stretch? Because he was overrated. Why did Brandon Marshall struggle last year with the jets? The qb and offense fell apart.

It's never due to too many weapons unless the qb sucks ass. Eli doesn't suck ass.

Pass on Beckham at your own peril. Odds are he produces once again because he's a great player with a known commodity at qb. Brandon Marshall will only help. For every ball that Marshall sucks away from Beckham he will get two more thrown his way because drives will last longer, thanks to Marshall and all those weapons.

Wayne chrebet won me a ft title one year as the second wr option in a run first jets offense. Why? He was a good player with a good qb.

I never get to draft high enough to get OBJ  
wgenesis123 : 5/31/2017 10:22 am : link
Perhaps luck will favor me with a high pick this year. If it does I will gladly take him. I don't care whether it is the best value I can get with the pick. How many Giants will I ever be able to take with a top five pick? I will take my chances with OBJ because he is a Giant.
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