Has Beckham even said anything about being unhappy that the Giants picked up his option?
People probably said Randy Moss would never win anything, either.. he was a helmet catch away from being on a team that completed a perfect season.
Terrell Owens was part of the only Eagles team that has played in a Super Bowl since 1980.
The get-off-my-lawners said Beckham was a losing player before last year, too. Then the Giants won 11 games.. a few of them directly on his back. Of course, the playoff game was all his fault, though (nary a peep about the defense that allowed 38 points.. including a backbreaking Hail Mary to end the first half)
But hey, why not double and triple down on the bullshit here. It's fun!
better to just take a mental note of the ridiculous comments like that one than try to convince people otherwise. I lost the patience with continuing this debate early this offseason, but you've been doing yeoman's work in these Beckham threads lately. along with a few others.
Or basing a decision on signing him long term on his poor playoff game is just lost. You're gonna condemn a player because he had one bad game and assume he's never going to play well in a playoff game, ever? Really? You're that convinced? One game out of 40 or so. One.
Don't even get me started on the whole bullshit myth on player distractions or so called bad locker room guys. No one can prove shit in this department and no one ever will but I can prove that "bad" or "toxic" locker rooms have won Super Bowls. Multiple. By the same team. And we have heard nothing but good things about Beckham in the locker room.
There's plenty of evidence to suggest that there is no such thing as a player distraction. The media made it up years ago. Then double and tripled down on it and literally forumulated their own locker room and team narrative. It's become a paradigm. A ever evolving dynamic of attention that is rooted in 100% bullshit. It's speculative at best.
The only proven negative resulting from Beckham's "antics" or "problems" have been the 4-5 personal foul penalties called on him over the three years. I'd venture that the average wr probably has 1-2 called on him over that time. everything else is just noise. Should we want Beckham to be perfect on and off the field? Yes. That doesn't mean he has to be the coolest of cool or the jeter of the NFL. Odds are his health will be the biggest factor in determining how good the long term contract looks when all is said and done.
In a NY minute. Generational talents don't come along very often. When they do you keep them in your locker room for their entire career barring catastrophic injury.
have a hard time paying up until he proves he can play with a level head. Of course he is worth the money, but will he mature to match his talents on the field? I was fairly disappointed last season with some of his antics, after going into those games saying he learned from the year before and would be okay, then BOOM more meltdowns.
situation. He lays it all out with options at hand. See Friday Reading thread.
Giants can control OBJ for only $28M over the next 3 years with current contract plus one tag year. While I am not suggesting that is prudent, if the OBJ camp can't wait that long then maybe he will accept an under-market deal now to get the money flowing.
At market, this guy could command as high as $19M/year. So maybe at an under-market 5 year deal gives him say $15M/year with 50% of it guaranteed?
Don't give him another penny for the next two years. He has no leverage. Then after the two years see where he is physically and franchise him if they want to keep him for another year. Odds are after 6 NFL seasons he'll be used up. They're fools if they give this guy a long term contract unless it's structured in a way they can cut him after two years.
you have to realize that there is a contingent on BBI that has made their minds up the Beckham is nothing but a distraction, sideshow and emerging Cancer and the sooner he's off the team the better.
Abhorrently poor logic, but it is what it is. What confuses me is that at least two of the people vocal about getting what we can for Beckham and letting him become somebody else's headache were pretty adamant that getting rid of Will Hill was a terrible idea.
Not sure how subtracting the best skill player I've seen on this team is a good idea, but people keep trying to educate me on why.
RE: Decent article on by Barnwell of ESPN on OBJ contract Â
situation. He lays it all out with options at hand. See Friday Reading thread.
Giants can control OBJ for only $28M over the next 3 years with current contract plus one tag year. While I am not suggesting that is prudent, if the OBJ camp can't wait that long then maybe he will accept an under-market deal now to get the money flowing.
At market, this guy could command as high as $19M/year. So maybe at an under-market 5 year deal gives him say $15M/year with 50% of it guaranteed?
I alluded to this scenario in another OBJ thread. If he wants to set a new bar in WR pay, then he has to shoulder the injury risk until he is eligible. If he wants the Giants to tear up the cost controlled contract that OBJ signed and have the organization shoulder the injury risk and give him guaranteed money, then he should be amenable to accepting a below market deal. If he wants top dollar now, then fuck him. The Giants should be prepared to levy fines in the event of any mandatory activity holdouts and potential suspensions in the event his behavior is deemed detrimental to the team.
Diver - I am good with everything you wrote, but your last sentence Â
situation. He lays it all out with options at hand. See Friday Reading thread.
Giants can control OBJ for only $28M over the next 3 years with current contract plus one tag year. While I am not suggesting that is prudent, if the OBJ camp can't wait that long then maybe he will accept an under-market deal now to get the money flowing.
At market, this guy could command as high as $19M/year. So maybe at an under-market 5 year deal gives him say $15M/year with 50% of it guaranteed?
Giants would be smart to get him now at a below-market deal. This is what I was getting at with my proposal. Give him an extension that pays him better than AB. Doesn't have to be by much. Just better.
But tack it on to his current contract so that over the course of the contract the AAV is lower, and make sure the guarantees are something we can live with if there is injury and he cannot play it out.
Of course, like many on this thread I want to keep him at a bargain rate. But I also don't want him going to another team, and I want him to be a player that will always be a NYG favorite. Why not give him a chance to earn a huge check now and commit to us in that exact way? Not sure if he would go for it, but it seems reasonable that he might, particularly if he is currently interested in extending his deal.
So, give him an extension with $21MM signing bonus over 7 years, low salaries over the next two years (similar to what he's now going to earn), and then have the big dollars hit when Eli's contract comes off the books.
He will be 31 when he hits FA and you can decide then if he's still the goods. In the meantime he can destroy every receiving record the NYG have and possibly make a run at NFL records as well.
It is so odd the range of views OBJ brings out on BBI Â
Without question he has been immature at times and his penalties/suspensions clearly don't help the team. But way too talented to be so harsh to want him to really leave. How can a guy be so critical to numerous team wins over the past 3 years, and not be the same to a potential future Super Bowl run?
I threw out a post in jest earlier this week on "maybe trading him for 2 first rounders" to stir the pot on the topic. And I was shocked to see how many BBI'ers wold do it for less.
Time & circumstances will mature him, and if so, we are only left with perhaps the greatest WR in recent memory...
you have to realize that there is a contingent on BBI that has made their minds up the Beckham is nothing but a distraction, sideshow and emerging Cancer and the sooner he's off the team the better.
Abhorrently poor logic, but it is what it is. What confuses me is that at least two of the people vocal about getting what we can for Beckham and letting him become somebody else's headache were pretty adamant that getting rid of Will Hill was a terrible idea.
Not sure how subtracting the best skill player I've seen on this team is a good idea, but people keep trying to educate me on why.
I just can't understand why people are so eager to push the greatest offensive talent we've ever seen in this uniform out the door as soon as possible.
Because he's not at OTA's? Because he's been flagged in a few games for losing his composure?
The way people talk about this guy, you'd think he was a rapist and a serial killer.
This idea that he'll never win anything in his career because he's some "diva" is just such fucking bullshit that I can't even keep a straight face when I read it. It's lunacy. Nothing about Odell Beckham lowers the Giants' ceiling or limits their potential. It's the exact fucking opposite.
This idea that he'll never win anything in his career because he's some "diva" is just such fucking bullshit that I can't even keep a straight face when I read it. It's lunacy. Nothing about Odell Beckham lowers the Giants' ceiling or limits their potential. It's the exact fucking opposite.
Ironically, Josh Norman has played in a Super Bowl, with a decent shot at winning a ring. Not to mention the list of players that can be considered jackasses or divas who hold a ring is lengthy.
I didn't read this thread until now, figuring it'd be 100 posts Â
of 80% 'pay the man'. Now, I learn the Giants roster isn't all that impressive because they don't have depth all over, and Beckham will never win a thing.
In hindsight, I'd have been better off not reading the thread.
The Eagles nearly won a Super Bowl because of Terrell Owens.
He came back from a broken leg well before he was supposed to and was the Eagles' best player in that game.
Same guy that was doing sit ups in his driveway and had all sorts of rifts with his own QB.
That 2004 team with Owens was also the best team the Eagles fielded in the Reid era and was the best team they've fielded maybe ever. It was the only 13 win team they've ever had in their entire franchise history.
And yet, I have to keep wading through this bullshit idea that "diva" WR's wreck team chemistry and prevent teams from winning anything.
RE: Diver - I am good with everything you wrote, but your last sentence Â
needs to also treat the OBJ with sufficient respect as long as he is doing the same to the organization.
I have no problem with the Giants giving him everything he deserves. If he shows up and does his job, he'll get paid in due time. If he wants it now, then he has to accept a below market deal. If he wants to set the market, then he'll have to wait as the Giants have the leverage in controlling his rights. Mutual respect will go a long way. If he hold out, then expect the fines. If the relationship deteriorates and he presses his case in social media and traditional media, then be prepared for fines and suspension due to conduct detrimental to the team.
that there was universal outrage and vitriol directed at Burress for derailing that season from talk radio and the local media.
A lot of people to this day blame the eagles playoff loss on "the defense getting gassed" even though they only gave up 16 points in that game and the Giants finished 1-4 after Plax shot himself.
You didn't see this kind of split between fans when Plax shot himself and his actions directly caused a great season to go down the tubes.
I advocated trading Plax the summer after the Super Bowl, and was livid when he got a new contract.
I don't expect Beckham to shoot himself, but it's not beyond the pale to suggest that his personality could become a problem. And at least we're starting to see the fanboys admit that he's a diva. I suppose that's progress.
Primarily though I'm just opposed to committing so much money to him. I'm surprised there are so many people that just assume he's going to be Jerry Rice, as if that were an easy thing to do. It's like everyone here has forgotten about all the great receivers we've had recently who flamed out too early.
And at least we're starting to see the fanboys admit that he's a diva. I suppose that's progress.
Has it really been reduced to calling fans of the team "fanboys" as a derogatory comment because they aren't considering a guy who is the team's best player to be an absolute Cancer?
Put aside the fact that the default belief system of "Fans" is to root positively for the team and see the contradictions that exist.
You're talking about a fanbase that insinuated that Reese and the coaches were morons for holding Will Hill to a certain standard and then out the other side of their mouth considered the front office enablers of a wife-beater in Josh Brown.
Furthermore, people seem to lump Beckham in as if he's an absolute shitshow off the field, yet he's had not a single arrest or done anything other than acts of self-promotion, but the guy gets killed like he's the knife-wielding friend of Ray Lewis.
You didn't see this kind of split between fans when Plax shot himself and his actions directly caused a great season to go down the tubes.
I advocated trading Plax the summer after the Super Bowl, and was livid when he got a new contract.
I don't expect Beckham to shoot himself, but it's not beyond the pale to suggest that his personality could become a problem. And at least we're starting to see the fanboys admit that he's a diva. I suppose that's progress.
Primarily though I'm just opposed to committing so much money to him. I'm surprised there are so many people that just assume he's going to be Jerry Rice, as if that were an easy thing to do. It's like everyone here has forgotten about all the great receivers we've had recently who flamed out too early.
You're consistent but I'd be willing to bet a lot of fans souring on Beckham now we're the same ones that were Plax "fanboys" when he directly screwed over the team.
He may or may not be Jerry Rice but he's the most explosive receiver this franchise has ever had at this point in his career. A lot can happen between now and when the organization has to make a decision. If he stays healthy and continues to produce at this level, he will get paid and deservedly so.
And at least we're starting to see the fanboys admit that he's a diva. I suppose that's progress.
Has it really been reduced to calling fans of the team "fanboys" as a derogatory comment because they aren't considering a guy who is the team's best player to be an absolute Cancer?
Put aside the fact that the default belief system of "Fans" is to root positively for the team and see the contradictions that exist.
You're talking about a fanbase that insinuated that Reese and the coaches were morons for holding Will Hill to a certain standard and then out the other side of their mouth considered the front office enablers of a wife-beater in Josh Brown.
Furthermore, people seem to lump Beckham in as if he's an absolute shitshow off the field, yet he's had not a single arrest or done anything other than acts of self-promotion, but the guy gets killed like he's the knife-wielding friend of Ray Lewis.
After listening to three years of encomiums to Beckham's "competitiveness" and "fire" that were usually just rationalizing his assholish behavior, you could understand how I'd view him being called a diva as progress.
I pointed out about two games into his career that if he were an Eagle we'd all think he was a total asshole. I still feel that way strongly.
And I can live with the Giants having a total asshole as a player... Just don't tell me it's because of his "fire" or whatever. People tried to sell that same line of bullshit with Shockey.
I wouldn't call him a cancer at this point, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility that he becomes one.
still be an asshole and have all the fire and competitiveness in the world, along with a high work ethic.
Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, Ochocinco and if you want to add Beckham to the group all can be looked at as assholes, and nearly every single one of them put in the most work in the offseason and in the training room. You can question Moss on giving up in games possibly, but the guy worked his ass off, and actually continues to do so by working with youth groups on boot camps of sorts.
People shouldn't confuse the two aspects, just as they shouldn't confuse being an asshole on the field with being a criminal or a bad dude off the field.
still be an asshole and have all the fire and competitiveness in the world, along with a high work ethic.
Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, Ochocinco and if you want to add Beckham to the group all can be looked at as assholes, and nearly every single one of them put in the most work in the offseason and in the training room. You can question Moss on giving up in games possibly, but the guy worked his ass off, and actually continues to do so by working with youth groups on boot camps of sorts.
People shouldn't confuse the two aspects, just as they shouldn't confuse being an asshole on the field with being a criminal or a bad dude off the field.
I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that Beckham is ultra-competitive or passionate. I still believe those things about him because it's almost impossible to get to the level he has if you're neither of those things.
I don't think every athlete has the same level of drive.
I think he's struggled to channel his emotions correctly at times, but he's never left a shred of doubt that he cares immensely about football and being the best player he can possibly be.
The diva stuff is overblown anyway. We've never seen Beckham throw Eli under the bus or be called a bad teammate. We've seen guys like Dez scream at teammates on the sidelines during games, Owens' issues with McNabb were well-documented.. Beckham hit a kicking net.
but any giants fan that is even considering letting go of Beckham is ... I don't even know the word.
he is 24 - and already 1 of the most dangerous "weapons" in the league. he conveniently will be do an extension when Eli's contract starts to come off the books ... and even if that wasn't the case, he's a no brainer re-signing.
wanna wait a year? sure. letting him walk / trading for draft picks is a joke. you do not trade a young elite/all-pro/future HOF caliber player entering his prime for the false hope of draft picks. absolutely ridiculous to even consider it.
I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that Beckham is ultra-competitive or passionate. I still believe those things about him because it's almost impossible to get to the level he has if you're neither of those things.
I don't think every athlete has the same level of drive.
I think he's struggled to channel his emotions correctly at times, but he's never left a shred of doubt that he cares immensely about football and being the best player he can possibly be.
The diva stuff is overblown anyway. We've never seen Beckham throw Eli under the bus or be called a bad teammate. We've seen guys like Dez scream at teammates on the sidelines during games, Owens' issues with McNabb were well-documented.. Beckham hit a kicking net.
I don't know how you can definitively say Beckham's drive is exceptional compared to his peers. If his drive were so incredible, for example, wouldn't he be at OTA's? I'd imagine that a player so obsessed with winning a title would not pass up an opportunity to work with his coaches and teammates. Are Will Tye or Zack DeOssie less driven because they attend OTA's but aren't as gifted as Beckham?
I'm just tired of this narrative that Beckham is way more competitive than his teammates, and that is why he acts like an ass.
the Eli window is the most glossed over point. By the team we get to the meat of Beckhams new deal we are likely to have Eli's money come off the books which won't be re-spent on a new QB since franchise QB's don't hit the market. IT will either be a player on a rookie contract or it will be a cheaper veteran.
the Eli window is the most glossed over point. By the team we get to the meat of Beckhams new deal we are likely to have Eli's money come off the books which won't be re-spent on a new QB since franchise QB's don't hit the market. IT will either be a player on a rookie contract or it will be a cheaper veteran.
nope, it'll be "cheap" Webb throwing quick hitting darts out of the shotgun to Odell - letting him do the rest, and reminding us of why he's worth the blank check he should be given by this front office.
he's 24! theres room for improvement ... which is disturbing.
Beckham is driven to be a great WR. I'm talking about competitive, on-field drive.
Attending OTA's have absolutely nothing to do with that. He's not driven to prove to guys like you that he's a team-player, he's driven to be the best WR possible. Which is why he's been training his ass off this entire time and working just has hard as anyone else.
His own teammates will be the first ones to tell you that he works as hard as anyone else. Brandon Marshall said it himself and marveled over how special he thinks Beckham is.
You think every single athlete has the same drive?
but if he has another amazing season and stays healthy, abso-freakin-lutely.
I don't even think OBJ is an ahole like everyone seems to think. I think he's an amazing person that has compassion and cares for people. If you watch anything that he does off the field, he's very generous and caring. He's one of those guys that is just a fiery competitor(I don't care if some dummy doesn't like to refer to him as that) that hasn't learned how to control his emotions, but clearly he's aware enough to realize that and will eventually figure it out.
I look forward to the few idiots disappearing as OBJ plays out his HOF career.
I'd rather listen to the guys that have actually played football with him, personally.. but what do I know?
Quote:
“His work ethic is unmatched and unquestioned,” said Newhouse. “He fights for his teammates, I see him getting after it in the weight room. He’s done nothing but show me he is a great teammate and a game-changing playmaker.”
OBJ doesn't have that burning desire that few have and how anyone can say he's anything but an amazing teammate. How about the fact that he and Landry would go into the practice bubble at midnight on teh weekends and practice football. How about the fact that he's very close with every one of his WR's that he's played with in college and NFL. He's clearly well liked by his teammates and most of his peers(not the DB's). Sometimes people are so blinded by their own stupidity that they don't see the obvious.
"They broke a Jugs machine," Henry told the Daily News before Beckham and the Giants visited Landry’s Dolphins. "They would break into the indoor facility. On Friday nights, when everybody else was going and hanging out, they were there catching footballs.
and you can judge that by how his teammates talk about him and interact with him. He's always close with the WR's on his team. I think he's a perfect player and teammate, except for the one small aspect of controlling his competitiveness and fire, similar to Steve Smith, except he's like 100x better than Smith.
but if he has another amazing season and stays healthy, abso-freakin-lutely.
I don't even think OBJ is an ahole like everyone seems to think. I think he's an amazing person that has compassion and cares for people. If you watch anything that he does off the field, he's very generous and caring. He's one of those guys that is just a fiery competitor(I don't care if some dummy doesn't like to refer to him as that) that hasn't learned how to control his emotions, but clearly he's aware enough to realize that and will eventually figure it out.
I look forward to the few idiots disappearing as OBJ plays out his HOF career.
This isn't just drinking koolaid, it's straight up injecting it intravenously. If a player on the Eagles made it a routine to show up late for fan events and no show charity events he signed on for the way Zbeckham has the last two offseasons, there's no way in hell you'd be claiming that player an an amazing, compassionate person.
And for the record, I don't care if he's an asshole or not. I don't need nice guys on my team.
There's not one teammate on the record saying anything but positive things about Beckham.
You're sitting here claiming he's a shitty, me-first guy who is a bad teammate while the guys who actually play football with him all rave about his work ethic and say otherwise.
I know who I am choosing to believe... and it's definitely not the account of a fan acting like a jilted ex-lover over a football player skipping voluntary OTA's.
There's not one teammate on the record saying anything but positive things about Beckham.
You're sitting here claiming he's a shitty, me-first guy who is a bad teammate while the guys who actually play football with him all rave about his work ethic and say otherwise.
I know who I am choosing to believe... and it's definitely not the account of a fan acting like a jilted ex-lover over a football player skipping voluntary OTA's.
What do you think they're going to say? Nothing good comes out of bad nothing a teammate.
And what about Reese's worried about his maturity and needing to grow up? I guess those don't matter?
We can franchise tag him for a couple of years. All he can do is whine.
The best organizations DO NOT take care of players. Look at the Pats and Seahawks as the best examples. They cut you when you come for the dough. That's what we need to do too if OBJ won't play ball for him. He knows his marketability lies in playing in NY - good luck playing for the Bills or Vikings and see how many instagram hits you get.
People probably said Randy Moss would never win anything, either.. he was a helmet catch away from being on a team that completed a perfect season.
Terrell Owens was part of the only Eagles team that has played in a Super Bowl since 1980.
The get-off-my-lawners said Beckham was a losing player before last year, too. Then the Giants won 11 games.. a few of them directly on his back. Of course, the playoff game was all his fault, though (nary a peep about the defense that allowed 38 points.. including a backbreaking Hail Mary to end the first half)
But hey, why not double and triple down on the bullshit here. It's fun!
This season just needs to arrive, and quick
Hell, I'll settle for camp. So that #13 will be there and everyone will stop having a coronary over his absence.
Cool.
There's plenty of evidence to suggest that there is no such thing as a player distraction. The media made it up years ago. Then double and tripled down on it and literally forumulated their own locker room and team narrative. It's become a paradigm. A ever evolving dynamic of attention that is rooted in 100% bullshit. It's speculative at best.
The only proven negative resulting from Beckham's "antics" or "problems" have been the 4-5 personal foul penalties called on him over the three years. I'd venture that the average wr probably has 1-2 called on him over that time. everything else is just noise. Should we want Beckham to be perfect on and off the field? Yes. That doesn't mean he has to be the coolest of cool or the jeter of the NFL. Odds are his health will be the biggest factor in determining how good the long term contract looks when all is said and done.
Best WR in Giants history.
Giants can control OBJ for only $28M over the next 3 years with current contract plus one tag year. While I am not suggesting that is prudent, if the OBJ camp can't wait that long then maybe he will accept an under-market deal now to get the money flowing.
At market, this guy could command as high as $19M/year. So maybe at an under-market 5 year deal gives him say $15M/year with 50% of it guaranteed?
Abhorrently poor logic, but it is what it is. What confuses me is that at least two of the people vocal about getting what we can for Beckham and letting him become somebody else's headache were pretty adamant that getting rid of Will Hill was a terrible idea.
Not sure how subtracting the best skill player I've seen on this team is a good idea, but people keep trying to educate me on why.
Giants can control OBJ for only $28M over the next 3 years with current contract plus one tag year. While I am not suggesting that is prudent, if the OBJ camp can't wait that long then maybe he will accept an under-market deal now to get the money flowing.
At market, this guy could command as high as $19M/year. So maybe at an under-market 5 year deal gives him say $15M/year with 50% of it guaranteed?
I alluded to this scenario in another OBJ thread. If he wants to set a new bar in WR pay, then he has to shoulder the injury risk until he is eligible. If he wants the Giants to tear up the cost controlled contract that OBJ signed and have the organization shoulder the injury risk and give him guaranteed money, then he should be amenable to accepting a below market deal. If he wants top dollar now, then fuck him. The Giants should be prepared to levy fines in the event of any mandatory activity holdouts and potential suspensions in the event his behavior is deemed detrimental to the team.
Giants can control OBJ for only $28M over the next 3 years with current contract plus one tag year. While I am not suggesting that is prudent, if the OBJ camp can't wait that long then maybe he will accept an under-market deal now to get the money flowing.
At market, this guy could command as high as $19M/year. So maybe at an under-market 5 year deal gives him say $15M/year with 50% of it guaranteed?
Giants would be smart to get him now at a below-market deal. This is what I was getting at with my proposal. Give him an extension that pays him better than AB. Doesn't have to be by much. Just better.
But tack it on to his current contract so that over the course of the contract the AAV is lower, and make sure the guarantees are something we can live with if there is injury and he cannot play it out.
Of course, like many on this thread I want to keep him at a bargain rate. But I also don't want him going to another team, and I want him to be a player that will always be a NYG favorite. Why not give him a chance to earn a huge check now and commit to us in that exact way? Not sure if he would go for it, but it seems reasonable that he might, particularly if he is currently interested in extending his deal.
So, give him an extension with $21MM signing bonus over 7 years, low salaries over the next two years (similar to what he's now going to earn), and then have the big dollars hit when Eli's contract comes off the books.
He will be 31 when he hits FA and you can decide then if he's still the goods. In the meantime he can destroy every receiving record the NYG have and possibly make a run at NFL records as well.
I threw out a post in jest earlier this week on "maybe trading him for 2 first rounders" to stir the pot on the topic. And I was shocked to see how many BBI'ers wold do it for less.
Time & circumstances will mature him, and if so, we are only left with perhaps the greatest WR in recent memory...
Abhorrently poor logic, but it is what it is. What confuses me is that at least two of the people vocal about getting what we can for Beckham and letting him become somebody else's headache were pretty adamant that getting rid of Will Hill was a terrible idea.
Not sure how subtracting the best skill player I've seen on this team is a good idea, but people keep trying to educate me on why.
I just can't understand why people are so eager to push the greatest offensive talent we've ever seen in this uniform out the door as soon as possible.
Because he's not at OTA's? Because he's been flagged in a few games for losing his composure?
The way people talk about this guy, you'd think he was a rapist and a serial killer.
This idea that he'll never win anything in his career because he's some "diva" is just such fucking bullshit that I can't even keep a straight face when I read it. It's lunacy. Nothing about Odell Beckham lowers the Giants' ceiling or limits their potential. It's the exact fucking opposite.
Ironically, Josh Norman has played in a Super Bowl, with a decent shot at winning a ring. Not to mention the list of players that can be considered jackasses or divas who hold a ring is lengthy.
In hindsight, I'd have been better off not reading the thread.
He came back from a broken leg well before he was supposed to and was the Eagles' best player in that game.
Same guy that was doing sit ups in his driveway and had all sorts of rifts with his own QB.
That 2004 team with Owens was also the best team the Eagles fielded in the Reid era and was the best team they've fielded maybe ever. It was the only 13 win team they've ever had in their entire franchise history.
And yet, I have to keep wading through this bullshit idea that "diva" WR's wreck team chemistry and prevent teams from winning anything.
I have no problem with the Giants giving him everything he deserves. If he shows up and does his job, he'll get paid in due time. If he wants it now, then he has to accept a below market deal. If he wants to set the market, then he'll have to wait as the Giants have the leverage in controlling his rights. Mutual respect will go a long way. If he hold out, then expect the fines. If the relationship deteriorates and he presses his case in social media and traditional media, then be prepared for fines and suspension due to conduct detrimental to the team.
A lot of people to this day blame the eagles playoff loss on "the defense getting gassed" even though they only gave up 16 points in that game and the Giants finished 1-4 after Plax shot himself.
I advocated trading Plax the summer after the Super Bowl, and was livid when he got a new contract.
I don't expect Beckham to shoot himself, but it's not beyond the pale to suggest that his personality could become a problem. And at least we're starting to see the fanboys admit that he's a diva. I suppose that's progress.
Primarily though I'm just opposed to committing so much money to him. I'm surprised there are so many people that just assume he's going to be Jerry Rice, as if that were an easy thing to do. It's like everyone here has forgotten about all the great receivers we've had recently who flamed out too early.
Even before the gun incident, how many practices did he skip out on? How many times was he late to meetings?
And the man caught one of the most important passes in NYG history and has a ring on his finger.
Beckham will "never win a fucking thing" though.. because of who he is.
Love it!
Has it really been reduced to calling fans of the team "fanboys" as a derogatory comment because they aren't considering a guy who is the team's best player to be an absolute Cancer?
Put aside the fact that the default belief system of "Fans" is to root positively for the team and see the contradictions that exist.
You're talking about a fanbase that insinuated that Reese and the coaches were morons for holding Will Hill to a certain standard and then out the other side of their mouth considered the front office enablers of a wife-beater in Josh Brown.
Furthermore, people seem to lump Beckham in as if he's an absolute shitshow off the field, yet he's had not a single arrest or done anything other than acts of self-promotion, but the guy gets killed like he's the knife-wielding friend of Ray Lewis.
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You didn't see this kind of split between fans when Plax shot himself and his actions directly caused a great season to go down the tubes.
I advocated trading Plax the summer after the Super Bowl, and was livid when he got a new contract.
I don't expect Beckham to shoot himself, but it's not beyond the pale to suggest that his personality could become a problem. And at least we're starting to see the fanboys admit that he's a diva. I suppose that's progress.
Primarily though I'm just opposed to committing so much money to him. I'm surprised there are so many people that just assume he's going to be Jerry Rice, as if that were an easy thing to do. It's like everyone here has forgotten about all the great receivers we've had recently who flamed out too early.
You're consistent but I'd be willing to bet a lot of fans souring on Beckham now we're the same ones that were Plax "fanboys" when he directly screwed over the team.
He may or may not be Jerry Rice but he's the most explosive receiver this franchise has ever had at this point in his career. A lot can happen between now and when the organization has to make a decision. If he stays healthy and continues to produce at this level, he will get paid and deservedly so.
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And at least we're starting to see the fanboys admit that he's a diva. I suppose that's progress.
Has it really been reduced to calling fans of the team "fanboys" as a derogatory comment because they aren't considering a guy who is the team's best player to be an absolute Cancer?
Put aside the fact that the default belief system of "Fans" is to root positively for the team and see the contradictions that exist.
You're talking about a fanbase that insinuated that Reese and the coaches were morons for holding Will Hill to a certain standard and then out the other side of their mouth considered the front office enablers of a wife-beater in Josh Brown.
Furthermore, people seem to lump Beckham in as if he's an absolute shitshow off the field, yet he's had not a single arrest or done anything other than acts of self-promotion, but the guy gets killed like he's the knife-wielding friend of Ray Lewis.
After listening to three years of encomiums to Beckham's "competitiveness" and "fire" that were usually just rationalizing his assholish behavior, you could understand how I'd view him being called a diva as progress.
I pointed out about two games into his career that if he were an Eagle we'd all think he was a total asshole. I still feel that way strongly.
And I can live with the Giants having a total asshole as a player... Just don't tell me it's because of his "fire" or whatever. People tried to sell that same line of bullshit with Shockey.
I wouldn't call him a cancer at this point, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility that he becomes one.
Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, Ochocinco and if you want to add Beckham to the group all can be looked at as assholes, and nearly every single one of them put in the most work in the offseason and in the training room. You can question Moss on giving up in games possibly, but the guy worked his ass off, and actually continues to do so by working with youth groups on boot camps of sorts.
People shouldn't confuse the two aspects, just as they shouldn't confuse being an asshole on the field with being a criminal or a bad dude off the field.
Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, Ochocinco and if you want to add Beckham to the group all can be looked at as assholes, and nearly every single one of them put in the most work in the offseason and in the training room. You can question Moss on giving up in games possibly, but the guy worked his ass off, and actually continues to do so by working with youth groups on boot camps of sorts.
People shouldn't confuse the two aspects, just as they shouldn't confuse being an asshole on the field with being a criminal or a bad dude off the field.
Who's calling him a criminal though?
I don't think every athlete has the same level of drive.
I think he's struggled to channel his emotions correctly at times, but he's never left a shred of doubt that he cares immensely about football and being the best player he can possibly be.
The diva stuff is overblown anyway. We've never seen Beckham throw Eli under the bus or be called a bad teammate. We've seen guys like Dez scream at teammates on the sidelines during games, Owens' issues with McNabb were well-documented.. Beckham hit a kicking net.
he is 24 - and already 1 of the most dangerous "weapons" in the league. he conveniently will be do an extension when Eli's contract starts to come off the books ... and even if that wasn't the case, he's a no brainer re-signing.
wanna wait a year? sure. letting him walk / trading for draft picks is a joke. you do not trade a young elite/all-pro/future HOF caliber player entering his prime for the false hope of draft picks. absolutely ridiculous to even consider it.
I don't think every athlete has the same level of drive.
I think he's struggled to channel his emotions correctly at times, but he's never left a shred of doubt that he cares immensely about football and being the best player he can possibly be.
The diva stuff is overblown anyway. We've never seen Beckham throw Eli under the bus or be called a bad teammate. We've seen guys like Dez scream at teammates on the sidelines during games, Owens' issues with McNabb were well-documented.. Beckham hit a kicking net.
I don't know how you can definitively say Beckham's drive is exceptional compared to his peers. If his drive were so incredible, for example, wouldn't he be at OTA's? I'd imagine that a player so obsessed with winning a title would not pass up an opportunity to work with his coaches and teammates. Are Will Tye or Zack DeOssie less driven because they attend OTA's but aren't as gifted as Beckham?
I'm just tired of this narrative that Beckham is way more competitive than his teammates, and that is why he acts like an ass.
nope, it'll be "cheap" Webb throwing quick hitting darts out of the shotgun to Odell - letting him do the rest, and reminding us of why he's worth the blank check he should be given by this front office.
he's 24! theres room for improvement ... which is disturbing.
this - ( New Window )
Attending OTA's have absolutely nothing to do with that. He's not driven to prove to guys like you that he's a team-player, he's driven to be the best WR possible. Which is why he's been training his ass off this entire time and working just has hard as anyone else.
His own teammates will be the first ones to tell you that he works as hard as anyone else. Brandon Marshall said it himself and marveled over how special he thinks Beckham is.
You think every single athlete has the same drive?
I disagree.
I don't even think OBJ is an ahole like everyone seems to think. I think he's an amazing person that has compassion and cares for people. If you watch anything that he does off the field, he's very generous and caring. He's one of those guys that is just a fiery competitor(I don't care if some dummy doesn't like to refer to him as that) that hasn't learned how to control his emotions, but clearly he's aware enough to realize that and will eventually figure it out.
I look forward to the few idiots disappearing as OBJ plays out his HOF career.
As for the Newhouse quote, he was probably sticking up for a teammate after the millionth question about Beckham doing something stupid.
And we agree on one thing: Beckham isn't driven to be a great team guy.
I guess Eli Manning doesn't give a shit because he doesn't act like a moron after every positive play.
I don't even think OBJ is an ahole like everyone seems to think. I think he's an amazing person that has compassion and cares for people. If you watch anything that he does off the field, he's very generous and caring. He's one of those guys that is just a fiery competitor(I don't care if some dummy doesn't like to refer to him as that) that hasn't learned how to control his emotions, but clearly he's aware enough to realize that and will eventually figure it out.
I look forward to the few idiots disappearing as OBJ plays out his HOF career.
This isn't just drinking koolaid, it's straight up injecting it intravenously. If a player on the Eagles made it a routine to show up late for fan events and no show charity events he signed on for the way Zbeckham has the last two offseasons, there's no way in hell you'd be claiming that player an an amazing, compassionate person.
And for the record, I don't care if he's an asshole or not. I don't need nice guys on my team.
There's not one teammate on the record saying anything but positive things about Beckham.
You're sitting here claiming he's a shitty, me-first guy who is a bad teammate while the guys who actually play football with him all rave about his work ethic and say otherwise.
I know who I am choosing to believe... and it's definitely not the account of a fan acting like a jilted ex-lover over a football player skipping voluntary OTA's.
I guess Eli Manning doesn't give a shit because he doesn't act like a moron after every positive play.
Your posts contain a lot of fire.
There's not one teammate on the record saying anything but positive things about Beckham.
You're sitting here claiming he's a shitty, me-first guy who is a bad teammate while the guys who actually play football with him all rave about his work ethic and say otherwise.
I know who I am choosing to believe... and it's definitely not the account of a fan acting like a jilted ex-lover over a football player skipping voluntary OTA's.
What do you think they're going to say? Nothing good comes out of bad nothing a teammate.
And what about Reese's worried about his maturity and needing to grow up? I guess those don't matter?
The best organizations DO NOT take care of players. Look at the Pats and Seahawks as the best examples. They cut you when you come for the dough. That's what we need to do too if OBJ won't play ball for him. He knows his marketability lies in playing in NY - good luck playing for the Bills or Vikings and see how many instagram hits you get.