for the "NEW HEAD COACH", he Will improve this year.
His offense was horrible and so was his play calling.
He started a washed up receiver that should have been cut.
I suspect that with the improvement of the draft and a years learning curve, the OFFENSE will be much more efficient.
The play calling had a lot to do with, too runs up the middle putting
the Giants in 2nd and 9, then similar plays on 2nd down putting the Giants in 3rd and long and allowing defenses to blitz. If they can run the ball better the play action passes that Eli excels at will work more often.
personnel should have been better with yearly whipping boy Randle gone and Perkins back plus addition of Shepard (I don't see anyone here lamenting the loss of Parker) and Perkins.
New HC who was also calling plays. Either it was too much for him as a new guy to follow his idol McCarthy or there was too much "Someday when I'm a head coach, I'm going to . . ." that didn't work.
Either way, let's hope with a year under his belt, he can get the offense moving.
Coaching. While I agree there was a pronounced lack of NFL talent at the TE, RB and X-WR spots, no team in the NFL has great talent at every position. Back when we would debate Perry Fewells pathetic results as D-Co, the arguement was always that he didn't have any talented players. There was some truth to that but not enough, in my opinion, to explain away all the bad results. I see the same argument, and offer the same countervailing argument being applied to Ben McAdoos pathetic offense. (Is it fair to hang the offense on Ben? I think so, yes). If the offense was 10th or 15th in rushing or passing or even overall, you might just explain it away by saying the personnel wasn't up to par. But McAdoos offense was among the bottom three in the entire NFL. And while we didn't have a good TE, while Jennings and Cruz were probably done and Flowers almost got Eli killed in most every game, there was some talent on the field. Shep is a legit slot WR, there is some talent on the line with Richburg, Pough and yes, Jerry had a good season. All Pros? Well no, but these guys were legit NFL players. And, Elis a franchise QB. Most teams in the bottom of the league's offense don't have a legit starting QB. And we have all world game breaker in OBJ. So the talent, I would argue was probably, on balance, middle of the pack.
I've made much here about the absurd overuse of 11 personnel packages. No other team in the NFL is even close to McAdoos 95% use of a single personnel set. As far as I know, this single personnel set idea hasn't been done in the 4 decades I've been watching pro football. Is McAdoo on to some sort of brilliant new idea here? Well, if he is, there's little evidence in the pathetic results we all witnessed last season. Far more likely is that McAdoo didn't think the sets were a problem, or he thought couldn't scheme anything else with the personnel he had. Either explaination worries me because McAdoo is supposed to be some kind of offensive genius.
I've seen some here argue that the Giants personnel doesn't "fit" McAdoos concepts. "Aaron Rodgers could run 11 personnel every play and win". Ah, yeah, I could be Aaron Rodgers O-Co and he'd still win. There can be no surer sign of a poor coach than one who can't adapt their scheme or concepts based on the talent on the roster. I'm not ready to jettison McAdoo, he showed much promise in being well prepared, able to handle a few lousy situations like the wife beater JR signed and OBJs silly kicking net shananigans, he was a mostly good game manager (though there were a few head scratchers during the season).
not all of it but he definitely had his share. I think he allowed the lack of good blocking and a weak run game to adversely effect his own contribution to the play being run. Sure you need blocking to run and throw but it looked to me that Eli expected bad execution and gave up on too many plays before they failed.
RE: It's like some of you think McAdoo didn't know
Much of the success in 2015 was the result of us being behind imo. It was a hot and cold offense. We got hot when we were behind. The same problems in 2015 showed up in 2016. It looked worse because the games were tight and the opposing D was playing us different. Last year we never addressed the #2 WR, to go into the season with no #2 was a mistake and last year our #2 was worse that 2015.
OL was bad in 2015 and was not addressed in the offseason last year. OL was not really addressed this year either, not in any proven way. We did address TE and #2 WR so that should help. Is Perkins the answer at RB? Probably better than Jenkins was last year so maybe the RB position is slightly better. It comes down to the OL. If Flowers improves that will make the whole OL better. You have Flowers, Pugh & Richburg who should all be better, Jerry is Jerry. Hopefully Fluker can unseat Jerry which then would be an upgrade. What we have at RT is anyone's guess.
I think the biggest offseason move is going to be Brandon Marshall. Even though he is coming off a terrible season I think he will open things up. He had nothing going for him last season. Simply having OBJ and Eli will make him a beast again imo. #2 WR was our biggest hole last year and now its filled.
Back when we would debate Perry Fewells pathetic results as D-Co, the arguement was always that he didn't have any talented players. There was some truth to that but not enough, in my opinion, to explain away all the bad results
Much of it was masked by the fact that they were still able to manage bursts of scoring game to game that made the end-season numbers look better than what they really were.
The biggest tell was in those games where the defense blew a lead or couldn't make stops late in the game. The Giants lost most those games because the offense was incompetent in the 4th quarter - they couldn't score or maintain drives.
McAdoo has a lot of work to do this off-season to get this fixed, there's some serious deep bedded issues with the offense that goes well beyond personnel.
Much of it was masked by the fact that they were still able to manage bursts of scoring game to game that made the end-season numbers look better than what they really were.
The biggest tell was in those games where the defense blew a lead or couldn't make stops late in the game. The Giants lost most those games because the offense was incompetent in the 4th quarter - they couldn't score or maintain drives.
McAdoo has a lot of work to do this off-season to get this fixed, there's some serious deep bedded issues with the offense that goes well beyond personnel.
The Giants were one of the best fourth quarter offenses in 2015.
Their problems came largely in the first few minutes of the first and third quarters -- usually, when broken down, when they would try to make running the ball happen.
personnel should have been better with yearly whipping boy Randle gone and Perkins back plus addition of Shepard (I don't see anyone here lamenting the loss of Parker) and Perkins.
New HC who was also calling plays. Either it was too much for him as a new guy to follow his idol McCarthy or there was too much "Someday when I'm a head coach, I'm going to . . ." that didn't work.
Either way, let's hope with a year under his belt, he can get the offense moving.
So the same guy calling plays in 2014-15 all of a sudden was overwhelmed last year? Aint buying it. The team played with a necessary edge most of the entire season. They expanded the right amount of energy and poise at just the right time. They played to their strengths. They didn't make critical mistakes. They lost MAYBE one game they had no business losing. But the HC was overwhelmed with the same duties he handled prior.
Vereen was healthy in 2015. Not that he's a great player but he filled a huge hole adequately. Jennings was better in 2015. I also think it's fair to speculate that defenses did a poorer job of eliminating BEckham's big play. Also, the TEs and FBs were slightly better if not yet exposed as blatantly. They also didn't lose Pugh for 2 months. Without looking i'd also bet the Giants defensive opposition in 2015 was probably a bit easier. And they played more wide open from behind type action.
Why does it have to fall on McAdoo's play calling? What secret game plan was going to save the offense last year? What player? It was Beckham and Shepard and pray for most of the first 10 games. The running game took two months to even approach respectable once Vereen went down.
PLay calling is likely to be the least of our worries. McAdoo took what was given last year and put the best players on the field. He also seemed to be 95% in the right when going for it on 4th down.
Much of it was masked by the fact that they were still able to manage bursts of scoring game to game that made the end-season numbers look better than what they really were.
The biggest tell was in those games where the defense blew a lead or couldn't make stops late in the game. The Giants lost most those games because the offense was incompetent in the 4th quarter - they couldn't score or maintain drives.
McAdoo has a lot of work to do this off-season to get this fixed, there's some serious deep bedded issues with the offense that goes well beyond personnel.
Exactly. The 2014-2015 offenses are widely overrated. Can we move on already from these so called good old days? those offenses didn't close jack shit. Think back to 2015 week 1. Instead of figuring it out and winning the game the offense literally choked on its own set of balls--Eli included. Fast forward one year and the offense dis just enough to win. It afforded the D a chance to win by gaining two first downs on that last drive.
14-15 are fucking history. 11 combined people. 11. I don't care how bad the D was, the O played a part. I don't care how BAD the O was last year, they played in a part in a winning season. The offense took steps forward last year. Give it another go this season with talent all over the place before you worry about McAdoo.
the stats may show that the NYG 2015 offense was good but they had more than one or two chances to win games in the 4th and they failed. Those offenses weren't good at anything other than hitting the Beckham HR ball. Sprinkle in a decent Jennings/Vereen performance and that was it.
Last year the Giants put up less but they came out of the year with a long term solution at slot WR and rotation 20 touch RB. Now we have FA/Draft additions. There's a ton more to work with now compared to last year at this time. Let's see it unfold.
No, the 2016 offense wasn't good at anything other than a big play
to Beckham here and there. 2015 actually involved some success to others, to some extent, even if the defensive fuckery was too much for them to overcome.
I don't even know where to start with a claim that the offense actually took steps forward in 2016. I just don't.
what happened in 2014-2015 and look at last year as the start of something new everything takes on a different look.
I am not saying last year was a good or even average offense. I am saying to forget about 2015. One has nothing to do with the other. Different players. Different games. Different records.
and there are a few instances that I can point out from last year
They came out in the same formation 90%+ of the time.
They didnt take any shots down the field.
They came out throwing on 1st down, and running on 2nd down. almost always forcing them to throw on 3rd down(usually long).
A dink and dunk offense doesnt work.
Cruz was out of position.
They did not have any tall receivers.
The play calling was just dreadful.
No fullback.
No tight end.
His offense was horrible and so was his play calling.
He started a washed up receiver that should have been cut.
I suspect that with the improvement of the draft and a years learning curve, the OFFENSE will be much more efficient.
New HC who was also calling plays. Either it was too much for him as a new guy to follow his idol McCarthy or there was too much "Someday when I'm a head coach, I'm going to . . ." that didn't work.
Either way, let's hope with a year under his belt, he can get the offense moving.
I've made much here about the absurd overuse of 11 personnel packages. No other team in the NFL is even close to McAdoos 95% use of a single personnel set. As far as I know, this single personnel set idea hasn't been done in the 4 decades I've been watching pro football. Is McAdoo on to some sort of brilliant new idea here? Well, if he is, there's little evidence in the pathetic results we all witnessed last season. Far more likely is that McAdoo didn't think the sets were a problem, or he thought couldn't scheme anything else with the personnel he had. Either explaination worries me because McAdoo is supposed to be some kind of offensive genius.
I've seen some here argue that the Giants personnel doesn't "fit" McAdoos concepts. "Aaron Rodgers could run 11 personnel every play and win". Ah, yeah, I could be Aaron Rodgers O-Co and he'd still win. There can be no surer sign of a poor coach than one who can't adapt their scheme or concepts based on the talent on the roster. I'm not ready to jettison McAdoo, he showed much promise in being well prepared, able to handle a few lousy situations like the wife beater JR signed and OBJs silly kicking net shananigans, he was a mostly good game manager (though there were a few head scratchers during the season).
Oh I think he knew it. The problem is that so did the teams we played.
OL was bad in 2015 and was not addressed in the offseason last year. OL was not really addressed this year either, not in any proven way. We did address TE and #2 WR so that should help. Is Perkins the answer at RB? Probably better than Jenkins was last year so maybe the RB position is slightly better. It comes down to the OL. If Flowers improves that will make the whole OL better. You have Flowers, Pugh & Richburg who should all be better, Jerry is Jerry. Hopefully Fluker can unseat Jerry which then would be an upgrade. What we have at RT is anyone's guess.
I think the biggest offseason move is going to be Brandon Marshall. Even though he is coming off a terrible season I think he will open things up. He had nothing going for him last season. Simply having OBJ and Eli will make him a beast again imo. #2 WR was our biggest hole last year and now its filled.
You know we won a SB with him, right?
The biggest tell was in those games where the defense blew a lead or couldn't make stops late in the game. The Giants lost most those games because the offense was incompetent in the 4th quarter - they couldn't score or maintain drives.
McAdoo has a lot of work to do this off-season to get this fixed, there's some serious deep bedded issues with the offense that goes well beyond personnel.
The biggest tell was in those games where the defense blew a lead or couldn't make stops late in the game. The Giants lost most those games because the offense was incompetent in the 4th quarter - they couldn't score or maintain drives.
McAdoo has a lot of work to do this off-season to get this fixed, there's some serious deep bedded issues with the offense that goes well beyond personnel.
The Giants were one of the best fourth quarter offenses in 2015.
Their problems came largely in the first few minutes of the first and third quarters -- usually, when broken down, when they would try to make running the ball happen.
New HC who was also calling plays. Either it was too much for him as a new guy to follow his idol McCarthy or there was too much "Someday when I'm a head coach, I'm going to . . ." that didn't work.
Either way, let's hope with a year under his belt, he can get the offense moving.
So the same guy calling plays in 2014-15 all of a sudden was overwhelmed last year? Aint buying it. The team played with a necessary edge most of the entire season. They expanded the right amount of energy and poise at just the right time. They played to their strengths. They didn't make critical mistakes. They lost MAYBE one game they had no business losing. But the HC was overwhelmed with the same duties he handled prior.
Vereen was healthy in 2015. Not that he's a great player but he filled a huge hole adequately. Jennings was better in 2015. I also think it's fair to speculate that defenses did a poorer job of eliminating BEckham's big play. Also, the TEs and FBs were slightly better if not yet exposed as blatantly. They also didn't lose Pugh for 2 months. Without looking i'd also bet the Giants defensive opposition in 2015 was probably a bit easier. And they played more wide open from behind type action.
Why does it have to fall on McAdoo's play calling? What secret game plan was going to save the offense last year? What player? It was Beckham and Shepard and pray for most of the first 10 games. The running game took two months to even approach respectable once Vereen went down.
PLay calling is likely to be the least of our worries. McAdoo took what was given last year and put the best players on the field. He also seemed to be 95% in the right when going for it on 4th down.
The biggest tell was in those games where the defense blew a lead or couldn't make stops late in the game. The Giants lost most those games because the offense was incompetent in the 4th quarter - they couldn't score or maintain drives.
McAdoo has a lot of work to do this off-season to get this fixed, there's some serious deep bedded issues with the offense that goes well beyond personnel.
Exactly. The 2014-2015 offenses are widely overrated. Can we move on already from these so called good old days? those offenses didn't close jack shit. Think back to 2015 week 1. Instead of figuring it out and winning the game the offense literally choked on its own set of balls--Eli included. Fast forward one year and the offense dis just enough to win. It afforded the D a chance to win by gaining two first downs on that last drive.
14-15 are fucking history. 11 combined people. 11. I don't care how bad the D was, the O played a part. I don't care how BAD the O was last year, they played in a part in a winning season. The offense took steps forward last year. Give it another go this season with talent all over the place before you worry about McAdoo.
Last year the Giants put up less but they came out of the year with a long term solution at slot WR and rotation 20 touch RB. Now we have FA/Draft additions. There's a ton more to work with now compared to last year at this time. Let's see it unfold.
I don't even know where to start with a claim that the offense actually took steps forward in 2016. I just don't.
I am not saying last year was a good or even average offense. I am saying to forget about 2015. One has nothing to do with the other. Different players. Different games. Different records.
Fewer weapons, injuries to Vereen and Rashad, deficient at #2 WR, and with an OL that consistently got beaten Eli's confidence was brittle.
They didnt take any shots down the field.
They came out throwing on 1st down, and running on 2nd down. almost always forcing them to throw on 3rd down(usually long).
A dink and dunk offense doesnt work.
Cruz was out of position.
They did not have any tall receivers.
The play calling was just dreadful.
No fullback.
No tight end.