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OBJ at the team facility today

EliIsEliteX2 : 6/12/2017 9:16 am
As per Josina Anderson's twitter feed:

"I'm told #Giants WR Odell Beckham JR is currently at the team facility. Physicals are today" 6/12/17 9:04am

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RE: RE: BBI is no different  
Keith : 6/12/2017 11:17 am : link
In comment 13496863 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13496859 Keith said:


Quote:


than it's always been.



And how long have you been here? March 2016?


Britt, it's nice to meet you. I am formerly kmed, now Keith. I've been here for over 10 years.
.  
arcarsenal : 6/12/2017 11:18 am : link
I am of the belief that OTA's are more important for certain players than others. I don't think they carry uniform significance for every player on the roster. But that's just my opinion.
RE: RE: RE: BBI is no different  
feelflows : 6/12/2017 11:19 am : link
In comment 13496876 Keith said:
Quote:
In comment 13496863 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 13496859 Keith said:


Quote:


than it's always been.



And how long have you been here? March 2016?



Britt, it's nice to meet you. I am formerly kmed, now Keith. I've been here for over 10 years.


what's up KMED! Hope all is well.
RE: RE: RE: RE: BBI is no different  
Keith : 6/12/2017 11:20 am : link
In comment 13496878 feelflows said:
Quote:
In comment 13496876 Keith said:


Quote:


In comment 13496863 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 13496859 Keith said:


Quote:


than it's always been.



And how long have you been here? March 2016?



Britt, it's nice to meet you. I am formerly kmed, now Keith. I've been here for over 10 years.



what's up KMED! Hope all is well.


Whats up my man! I should have formerly introduced myself to avoid confusion.
Ahhh, I see....  
Britt in VA : 6/12/2017 11:20 am : link
so you've been here awhile.

I find it hard to believe you don't believe there's not difference in discourse between then and now.

I disagree, but it's not worth having the conversation, I have no interest in talking up how great BBI was then or how shallow it's become now.
I really don't.  
Keith : 6/12/2017 11:21 am : link
It happens all the time. Every year there is talk about how it used to be. If anythign, bbi used to be more aggressive and personal. I think it's tamer now which is why there are smaller threads.
Anyways, I haven't had a strong, or very vocal opinion on this subject  
Britt in VA : 6/12/2017 11:23 am : link
here....

Everything I've been stating has been from just observing.
Great point about  
area junc : 6/12/2017 11:24 am : link
the OL too Britt. Taking the trolls behind the woodshed.

Yes - it's a problem. The only "bitching" going on is the same handful of regulars trolling, not even looking to talk football. Thats the element that keeps civilized people away.
it's a bigger deal  
feelflows : 6/12/2017 11:25 am : link
because it's a bigger player.

NYG haven't had a superstar like this since LT. Sure..Eli is a HOFer, but he's as bland as you get.

OBJ is a superstar on/off the field.

Imagine if there was the internet while LT was in his prime?

I can only speak on the conversations that I was involved in.  
Keith : 6/12/2017 11:26 am : link
Certain people expressed displeasure with OBJ not being at OTA's and some people disagreed and gave their opinion. The ones that immediately wanted him gone and called him selfish, a cancer, a bad teammate, those guys were met with posters who went for the jugular and as they should. It's a stupid opionion.
RE: it's a bigger deal  
Keith : 6/12/2017 11:27 am : link
In comment 13496896 feelflows said:
Quote:
because it's a bigger player.

NYG haven't had a superstar like this since LT. Sure..Eli is a HOFer, but he's as bland as you get.

OBJ is a superstar on/off the field.

Imagine if there was the internet while LT was in his prime?


LT would have been suspended his whole career, lol.
Imagine there were cell phones in LT's day.....  
Keith : 6/12/2017 11:27 am : link
Imagine every move was on video somewhere. Oy.
here's a good rule of thumb  
Greg from LI : 6/12/2017 11:28 am : link
If you find yourself on the same side of an argument as Thomas, re-examine your thoughts. Something is obvious amiss.
Try to actually find..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/12/2017 11:29 am : link
an NFL person - coach or player who thinks OTA's are that helpful. You basically have guys in shorts doing walkthroughs. Contact is supposed to be illegal.

The best thing a coach will say is that OTS'a help players get to know one another and for the rookies and young guys, it gives them a chance to start to learn the NFL culture. The benefit in OTA's from a coaching perspective is cohesiveness and attempting to get on the same page.

From a player's standpoint, it is a time to be with the team and for those with something to prove - a chance to impress and leave a positive view with the coaches. For veteran's and the players in the middle, it is nothing more than a glorified workout, and one that usually isn't as intense as their private workouts.

OTA's aren't essential to play in September. Having them "seem" important doesn't make them so. Even this statement tries to show the importance of OTA's, but it actually means the opposite:

Quote:
I'm not sure how you can think OTA's arent important. Of course players are going to skip and say they dont need them. But we all see the poor quality of play well into the season. The TV ratings dipping. The league needs more team practices, not less.


Play is shitty well into the season because actual practice time has been cut. The time players are in pads and can actually work on things has been reduced. The rise in the poor quality of play correlates directly to the reduction in practice time, and the introduction of OTA's, so as far as it relates to performance, the OTA's offer little to no benefit.

I'll say it again - contact is prohibited. Half-speed drills are the norm. The folly is thinking that is what is preparing teams for the season. If OTA's are essential, then ask why the quality of play suffers. It's because the actual practice time that does matter has been reduced.
LT slept through meetings  
Greg from LI : 6/12/2017 11:31 am : link
LT blew off practices to play golf.

LT's off the field problems actually affected play on the field, since he was suspended for four games in 1988. If he had played and the Giants had gone 3-1 in those four game rather than 2-2, they would have made the playoffs.

And yet, no one really cared because he was LT. Beckham isn't quite the LT of offense, but he's the closest the Giants have ever had to it.
RE: Try to actually find..  
Britt in VA : 6/12/2017 11:34 am : link
In comment 13496904 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
an NFL person - coach or player who thinks OTA's are that helpful. You basically have guys in shorts doing walkthroughs. Contact is supposed to be illegal.

The best thing a coach will say is that OTS'a help players get to know one another and for the rookies and young guys, it gives them a chance to start to learn the NFL culture. The benefit in OTA's from a coaching perspective is cohesiveness and attempting to get on the same page.

From a player's standpoint, it is a time to be with the team and for those with something to prove - a chance to impress and leave a positive view with the coaches. For veteran's and the players in the middle, it is nothing more than a glorified workout, and one that usually isn't as intense as their private workouts.

OTA's aren't essential to play in September. Having them "seem" important doesn't make them so. Even this statement tries to show the importance of OTA's, but it actually means the opposite:



Quote:


I'm not sure how you can think OTA's arent important. Of course players are going to skip and say they dont need them. But we all see the poor quality of play well into the season. The TV ratings dipping. The league needs more team practices, not less.



Play is shitty well into the season because actual practice time has been cut. The time players are in pads and can actually work on things has been reduced. The rise in the poor quality of play correlates directly to the reduction in practice time, and the introduction of OTA's, so as far as it relates to performance, the OTA's offer little to no benefit.

I'll say it again - contact is prohibited. Half-speed drills are the norm. The folly is thinking that is what is preparing teams for the season. If OTA's are essential, then ask why the quality of play suffers. It's because the actual practice time that does matter has been reduced.


I actually agree with your opinion.

However, with Beckham, I don't think the OTA's are the only reason people are upset. It's a culmination of things that have led to this.

The boat trip immediately followed by a poor playoff performance that made the Beckham the story all week and was arguably a distraction.

The no show at the Duke workout where every other receiver and TE on the team attended. For as little practice time as they have, a workout like that can be beneficial.

People are annoyed, and I can't fault them for having that opinion, especially when we're about to pay the guy big time and people want to know that he can be counted on.

It's not outrageous.
RE: LT slept through meetings  
feelflows : 6/12/2017 11:35 am : link
In comment 13496908 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
LT blew off practices to play golf.

LT's off the field problems actually affected play on the field, since he was suspended for four games in 1988. If he had played and the Giants had gone 3-1 in those four game rather than 2-2, they would have made the playoffs.

And yet, no one really cared because he was LT. Beckham isn't quite the LT of offense, but he's the closest the Giants have ever had to it.


Exactly.

Different times, different circumstances. It's a technology age.

The big difference I get from reading the posts on the subject is, there are some people on here who question if OBJ gives a crap if he's on the Giants. The perception that he's about himself only and maximizing his brand.

The perception with LT was, he was wild BUT you never questioned his commitment to the Giants (yes, there were hold-outs, but you always knew he'd be a Giant for life).

That being said, I don't think anybody here knows one way or another.

Britt,  
Keith : 6/12/2017 11:37 am : link
what isn't outrageous? To have some concern or to say we need to trade him. Is calling him a bad teammate or a cancer outrageous? I don't think anyone has attacked anyone else for having concern regarding his behavior. Having that opinion is fair. I have not seen anyone get attacked for having that very reasonable concern.
I wouldn't even call it concern...  
Britt in VA : 6/12/2017 11:39 am : link
I'd call it being annoyed, and yeah, I think it's fair and warranted to be annoyed with some of Beckham's offseason decisions thus far.
I also think it's fair to be annoyed  
Keith : 6/12/2017 11:43 am : link
and I think most people would agree. You seem to be missing the part that people took it like 96 steps further. Please show me where someone got attacked for being annoyed. People were responded to harshly when they went way beyond that and I seem to be missing that part.
One must not mix up our concerns for OL with  
chuckydee9 : 6/12/2017 11:44 am : link
that of why OBJ was in Miami.. Only only of those things can cost you game and multiple games the other is just crap made up by the media.. I am sure LT wasn't sitting and watching game film on all his days off..

OL is a real concern and JR hasn't been able to address it properly in over 5 years is blameworthy..
Britt...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/12/2017 11:46 am : link
I agree with this:

Quote:
People are annoyed, and I can't fault them for having that opinion, especially when we're about to pay the guy big time and people want to know that he can be counted on.

It's not outrageous


But are we annoyed because we think Beckham should be there, or are we mad because we are being told we should be angry? That's the rub for me. I can count on one hand the number of times a player skips OTA's and makes news. The need to fill space in June is making innocuous things try to be more important than they are. Our reaction isn't ridiculous - the assumptions made during the reporting of these things is.

Case in point - the group of WR's parties on an off day, it gets posted to social media and everyone has a cow. The defense parties probably even harder on that day, but there isn't any visibility of it, so everything is OK. The WR's have a bad game and people blame the boat. The defense gives up 38 points and????? Crickets.

I'm still angry that the majority of the way Beckham is viewed is because a team was allowed to bring a baseball bat onto a field to intimidate pre-game, a trash-talking CB was allowed to bodyslam him on the game's 2nd play, but when Beckham earholes him and Aikman and Buck go nuts, he's public enemy #1 and has stayed that way. Meanwhile, try and find an interview with Josh Norman since that day where he doesn't mention Beckham, yet everytime he does it gets reported.

The narrative has been written and the spotlight shined. If he went to OTA's, we'd probably have heard how he was posting to Twitter during drills and seen out with Iggy at night and still not taking shit seriously. It's a lose-lose situation for him now. If I was in his place, I'd probably want to give most everybody a big F U.
The Norman thing and boat thing are in the past.  
Big Blue '56 : 6/12/2017 11:46 am : link
If he repeats them, then that's on him, not OTAs..The major import of OTAs have been summed up nicely by FMiC, imv..I would add that any and all CLASSROOM stuff is of value, especially for the rookies..
RE: Britt...  
Britt in VA : 6/12/2017 11:49 am : link
In comment 13496942 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
I agree with this:



Quote:


People are annoyed, and I can't fault them for having that opinion, especially when we're about to pay the guy big time and people want to know that he can be counted on.

It's not outrageous



But are we annoyed because we think Beckham should be there, or are we mad because we are being told we should be angry? That's the rub for me. I can count on one hand the number of times a player skips OTA's and makes news. The need to fill space in June is making innocuous things try to be more important than they are. Our reaction isn't ridiculous - the assumptions made during the reporting of these things is.

Case in point - the group of WR's parties on an off day, it gets posted to social media and everyone has a cow. The defense parties probably even harder on that day, but there isn't any visibility of it, so everything is OK. The WR's have a bad game and people blame the boat. The defense gives up 38 points and????? Crickets.

I'm still angry that the majority of the way Beckham is viewed is because a team was allowed to bring a baseball bat onto a field to intimidate pre-game, a trash-talking CB was allowed to bodyslam him on the game's 2nd play, but when Beckham earholes him and Aikman and Buck go nuts, he's public enemy #1 and has stayed that way. Meanwhile, try and find an interview with Josh Norman since that day where he doesn't mention Beckham, yet everytime he does it gets reported.

The narrative has been written and the spotlight shined. If he went to OTA's, we'd probably have heard how he was posting to Twitter during drills and seen out with Iggy at night and still not taking shit seriously. It's a lose-lose situation for him now. If I was in his place, I'd probably want to give most everybody a big F U.


Blowing off Eli and the rest of the receivers at Duke is what bothers me the most, personally, and it's not even close. The rest are just minor blips, and it was the Duke blowoff that got the least news coverage.

The offense took a giant step back last year. It would give me the warm and fuzzies as a fan to think that that bothers everybody on the team, especially our star players, enough to at least give the impression that they are buying in, and working hard to be better next year.

Maybe that's a little selfishness from me, the fan. But that's part of being a fan, isn't it?
OBJ wants everybody to believe that he cares so much about the team...  
Britt in VA : 6/12/2017 11:51 am : link
I mean, the whole punching holes in the Green Bay lockerroom, going on twitter and saying that us fans haven't seen anything yet, that he's going to work harder than ever and this will be the best season, etc...

But his actions lately don't reflect that chatter.
Impression is not reality though.  
Keith : 6/12/2017 11:51 am : link
Optics only matter to shut up the people that need to make a story. In reality, it means nothing because impressions is just a feeling you get. OBJ and Eli have no problems with chemistry as you can see by his first 3 seasons in the league.
How do his actions not reflect the chatter?  
Keith : 6/12/2017 11:53 am : link
Is he not working out? Is he not trying to perfect his craft? Maybe you know something that I don't. Again, the optics will prove that it's not just chatter? cmon.
I'm not here to bash the guy or defend the guy....  
Britt in VA : 6/12/2017 11:55 am : link
That's just what I see.

Quite honestly, my interest in the NFL (and by proxy the Giants) has greatly diminished over the past two or three years. The level of play, the officiating (and the Giants poor record over much of that span), have made it very hard to watch.

I still watch every game, but I don't follow it all with the same fervor and enthusiasm as I used to here.

I'll tune in this September and hope for the best. I hope Beckham puts up better numbers than ever.
RE: OBJ wants everybody to believe that he cares so much about the team...  
mfsd : 6/12/2017 11:55 am : link
In comment 13496954 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
I mean, the whole punching holes in the Green Bay lockerroom, going on twitter and saying that us fans haven't seen anything yet, that he's going to work harder than ever and this will be the best season, etc...

But his actions lately don't reflect that chatter.


This is a reasonable opinion to express. I'm in the camp that think it's better were he at OTAs, but is confident he was working out very hard out west so it's not that big of a deal. Maybe he was firing a subtle warning shot about wanting a new deal, maybe not

There's a difference between the way you expressed your opinion and the over the top reactions by some - the latter is what I find really grating, and often jump on threads to sarcasticly mock.
It might have..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/12/2017 11:59 am : link
pissed you off, but I don't think Eli cared:

Quote:
Blowing off Eli and the rest of the receivers at Duke is what bothers me the most, personally, and it's not even close. The rest are just minor blips, and it was the Duke blowoff that got the least news coverage.


You're never going to get a good read on Eli, but from what I've heard is that Eli was happy to get time to work with the other guys. He already knows what he has in Beckham. And as a side note, I heard that was more of a perk thing anyway to go to Duke. Duke used it as a recruiting tool for prospects, the Giants got to meet and spend time with Coach K, and they had some evening outings that were probably more of a thrill for Adams and King than anything else.
I agree that I doubt Eli cared about it at all....  
Britt in VA : 6/12/2017 12:03 pm : link
.
RE: LT slept through meetings  
annexOPR : 6/12/2017 12:33 pm : link
In comment 13496908 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
LT blew off practices to play golf.

LT's off the field problems actually affected play on the field, since he was suspended for four games in 1988. If he had played and the Giants had gone 3-1 in those four game rather than 2-2, they would have made the playoffs.

And yet, no one really cared because he was LT. Beckham isn't quite the LT of offense, but he's the closest the Giants have ever had to it.


amen.
RE: RE: so now what does BBI complain about?  
ArcadeSlumlord : 6/12/2017 12:36 pm : link
In comment 13496709 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 13496674 annexOPR said:


Quote:


My guess:

Reese not overspending on free agent OL/reaching in draft.
or

How awful our #4 CB might be while disregarding the elite talent in the secondary that most teams would kill for.




Should have traded up for O.J. Howard.
Should have traded up for Garrett Bolles.
Should have drafted Forrest Lamp, or Cam Robinson, or Reuben Foster.
Should not have drafted Davis Webb.


What is wrong with Davis Webb? Seems like a promising prospect to me...
RE: RE: RE: so now what does BBI complain about?  
Klaatu : 6/12/2017 12:42 pm : link
In comment 13497010 ArcadeSlumlord said:
Quote:
In comment 13496709 Klaatu said:

Should have traded up for O.J. Howard.
Should have traded up for Garrett Bolles.
Should have drafted Forrest Lamp, or Cam Robinson, or Reuben Foster.
Should not have drafted Davis Webb.



What is wrong with Davis Webb? Seems like a promising prospect to me...


He hates America.
RE: I find the posts like....  
annexOPR : 6/12/2017 1:06 pm : link
In comment 13496862 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
"What will people bitch about now, oh probably the O-line...." As if the shitty state of the o-line for the past five years isn't worth bitching about, haha!

We've only been near dead last in rushing for a number of years, and can't pass protect, but much ado about nothing!

What were we on offense last year? 26th in the league? Nothing to see here!


what's your solution? overpay for mediocrity in free agency, pass on Engram/Tomlinson for mediocre prospects, or ...
RE: RE: RE: BBI is no different  
T-Bone : 6/12/2017 1:14 pm : link
In comment 13496876 Keith said:
Quote:
In comment 13496863 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 13496859 Keith said:


Quote:


than it's always been.



And how long have you been here? March 2016?



Britt, it's nice to meet you. I am formerly kmed, now Keith. I've been here for over 10 years.


Just getting a chance to read through this thread and got to this post and all I have to say is LMAO!!!!

Whaddup kmed!
T-Bone  
Keith : 6/12/2017 1:20 pm : link
what is up(said in my Jim Rome voice)
RE: .....  
est1986 : 6/12/2017 1:28 pm : link
In comment 13496666 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Odell the wide receiver,
Has some pretty crazy hair.
And if you ever saw it,
You'd be well-advised to stare.

All of the other Giants,
Working out at OTAs,
Don't care if he's a no-show.
Don't read Raanan anyways.

Then one sunny April day,
Working on his speed.
Snapped a pic with bust Manziel,
Giants season shot to hell!

Schefter says holdout coming.
Florio says same thing, too.
Canty says he's too distracting.
Terps says time for someone new.


LOL not bad.
McCarthy excuse players from mandatory mini-camp  
est1986 : 6/12/2017 1:31 pm : link
If they are vets in their 6+ year so that the guys who really need the work can get more reps. I think that makes too much sense.
RE: T-Bone  
T-Bone : 6/12/2017 1:41 pm : link
In comment 13497074 Keith said:
Quote:
what is up(said in my Jim Rome voice)


Nuttin much buddy. Been crazy busy as usual. The main reason why I found your post so funny is because I'd noticed this 'Keith' poster sounding like he'd been around for a while, and I wasn't familiar with the handle, and didn't know it was you. Not being on the site nearly as often as I used to has made me lost track of some of the handle switching going on (the only easy one was Beez to Beezer!).

Glad to see you around though and hope you're doing well.
RE: OBJ wants everybody to believe that he cares so much about the team...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/12/2017 1:59 pm : link
In comment 13496954 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
I mean, the whole punching holes in the Green Bay lockerroom, going on twitter and saying that us fans haven't seen anything yet, that he's going to work harder than ever and this will be the best season, etc...

But his actions lately don't reflect that chatter.


Thing is, you'd have to think all the emotion on field after losses was an act to think that he doesn't work hard. Green Bay wasn't the only time he was furious after a loss. And also, we already know that he was putting in work. It just wasn't at the facility.
It's worth mentioning  
area junc : 6/12/2017 3:25 pm : link
the CBA, we're down to 13 training camp practices. 13. At least half of those are in shells. So that's 6 or 7 full padded practice the entire training camp. If anyone has actually attended a practice the (lack of demands) put on the players is striking. They are glorified jog-thru.

The team, as a group, needs all the practice it can get to put a quality product on the field. Our offense had the complexity of a fried egg last year. OTA's are important simply because the team does not spend much time together on the field, there's lots of roster turnover and it's showing in quality of play. It was a major subject of debate last year during the ratings dip.

Practicing, even if it seems stupid and pointless, and even if the format is as pussy as it is today, is how you execute crisply as a team. My old position is training camp was enough for the vets, but that was the 2-a-day, full contact format. those days are long gone.
Just to correlate..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/12/2017 3:32 pm : link
the OTA's to winning.

The teams with the least amount of participation the past two years are the Chiefs, Packers, Seahawks and Bengals.

Getting the young guys and middle of the roster "on the same page" doesn't accomplish a whole lot.

Again - the issues with the quality of play eroding has correlated directly with the reduction in actual practices, and there appears to be little or any evidence to suggest OTA's help. There are teams that don't even require older players to attend OTA's. Why do you think that is - to retard team development?
Have to think OBJ is fired up,  
TMS : 6/12/2017 3:35 pm : link
big time, to be featured in this potential SB offense and glad to be back. At least according to the early press evaluations of this team. We will see.
OTAs are essential to a winning program  
Jimmy Googs : 6/12/2017 3:35 pm : link
as well as all losing ones...

RE: Just to correlate..  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/12/2017 3:38 pm : link
In comment 13497225
Getting the young guys and middle of the roster "on the same page" doesn't accomplish a whole lot. [/quote]

This is my argument, too!

You've got people out here yammering about Odell's "timing" with Eli being critical and important, and there's almost a full six weeks off between the end of OTAs and training camp.
RE: RE: Just to correlate..  
David in LA : 6/12/2017 3:42 pm : link
In comment 13497233 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13497225
Getting the young guys and middle of the roster "on the same page" doesn't accomplish a whole lot.


This is my argument, too!

You've got people out here yammering about Odell's "timing" with Eli being critical and important, and there's almost a full six weeks off between the end of OTAs and training camp. [/quote]

The most critical people are all over the place on this thread.
RE: BBI is no different  
Larry in Pencilvania : 6/12/2017 11:24 pm : link
In comment 13496859 Keith said:
Quote:
than it's always been.


I've been here for well over twenty years and this is so untrue
Eli's timing with Odell is fine.  
eclipz928 : 6/13/2017 12:08 am : link
Rarely see them not on the same page in a game. He seems to know all the routes and adjustments - OTAs wouldn't be much of a benefit for him or the team.
RE: Impression is not reality though.  
David in LA : 6/14/2017 4:59 am : link
In comment 13496956 Keith said:
Quote:
Optics only matter to shut up the people that need to make a story. In reality, it means nothing because impressions is just a feeling you get. OBJ and Eli have no problems with chemistry as you can see by his first 3 seasons in the league.


Idiots seem to sop up those stories and run with those narratives. Behind the scenes, OBJ is working his ass off. If this were a Knicks board, and OBJ was a franchise level player, people would be on his ass for going to Hakeem camp, while he's not there to greet the new rookies at Summer League.

The whole Duke camp thing, he said he had an infected tooth he needed to take care of. Is he telling the truth? I don't know, but at the end of the day I don't care. I've said since the Duke thing, the silver lining is new faces like Marshall and Engram gets a chance to develop rapport with Eli, and Shepard gets more exposure as well. Those guys need the reps with him more than OBJ does. He's not going to magically have a shitty season, because he missed a few days of working with Eli, especially when he's attended the last 3 years.
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