Stupid media drama. I had to explain to a couple of people that it was voluntary, that he's not the only guy to ever miss them. No big deal, really.
Yea I know a few tweets, blah blah, of course he wants more money, but the media makes it sound like he's holding out/missing games in the regular season by some of their headlines/wording.
Stop. You know that it won't stop. There are certain people that have their minds made up and will never see the light. OBJ is an easy one. Sometimes you can see the other side, but this one is as clear as day. If you don't see that OBJ is a generational talent and if you don't want him around long term, than you are clueless. Plain and simple. There is no reasonable argument to the contrary.
Reese not overspending on free agent OL/reaching in draft.
or
How awful our #4 CB might be while disregarding the elite talent in the secondary that most teams would kill for.
Should have traded up for O.J. Howard.
Should have traded up for Garrett Bolles.
Should have drafted Forrest Lamp, or Cam Robinson, or Reuben Foster.
Should not have drafted Davis Webb.
for any Giants fan to a. want their star player to attend team organized practices, and b. to be upset that the O-line that has been in shambles for over 5 seasons to still apparently be in shambles.
The nerve of some people, on a Giants message board no less. Fall in line, people!
There is a distinction between wanting OBJ at OTA's
and what we saw on bbi. If you can't see that, then I don't know what to tell you. Multiple people wanting him traded, saying he's ahole, saying he's not a team player and a cancer. I would think 100% of Giants fans WANT him there, but to freak out like some did is ridiculous.
There's no downside to him going, and not much of one with him not going. The issue is that people turn something so minor into DEFCON 1 and start babbling about how he hurts the team. Which is asinine.
was anybody that suggested otherwise that OTA's were completely meaningless and worthless were shouted down by the same vocal mod that goes from thread to thread and looks for outrage.
not one poster bitched on this thread, yet the first 10 or so posts were bitching about posters bitching about OBJ, without anybody actually bitching about OBJ.
What I saw was a bunch of idiots taking a minor situation and turning that it's an anti-OBJ rally. Because he didn't show up for OTA's, he's a cancer and needs to be traded. You deserve to get shouted down if you suggest that. There is no grey area with him right now. He's a generational talent, he's young, he's healthy, we have a really good team and we should be competitive for a number of years. No grey area, OBJ needs to be signed in the next year or so.
But a discussion on BBI about a subject like this 10 years ago would have been 10 pages long with a bunch of people writing thoughtful, long, and drawn out posts backing their opinion up.
Now threads are rapid fire and usually don't last longer than one page.
Not to say their wasn't name calling, or nastiness or venom, but the posts no matter the side of the argument, were smarter and better stated.
"What will people bitch about now, oh probably the O-line...." As if the shitty state of the o-line for the past five years isn't worth bitching about, haha!
We've only been near dead last in rushing for a number of years, and can't pass protect, but much ado about nothing!
What were we on offense last year? 26th in the league? Nothing to see here!
Stop. You know that it won't stop. There are certain people that have their minds made up and will never see the light. OBJ is an easy one. Sometimes you can see the other side, but this one is as clear as day. If you don't see that OBJ is a generational talent and if you don't want him around long term, than you are clueless. Plain and simple. There is no reasonable argument to the contrary.
They were bad at rushing the ball last year, but the main reason was Jennings, IMO. THe run blocking was not all that bad last year and I believe it will be good this year.
team practice time allowed thanks to the ridiculous CBA I'm not sure how you can think OTA's arent important. Of course players are going to skip and say they dont need them. But we all see the poor quality of play well into the season. The TV ratings dipping. The league needs more team practices, not less.
To take the stance that OTA's dont matter considering how little the team actually practices together is off.
I am of the belief that OTA's are more important for certain players than others. I don't think they carry uniform significance for every player on the roster. But that's just my opinion.
It happens all the time. Every year there is talk about how it used to be. If anythign, bbi used to be more aggressive and personal. I think it's tamer now which is why there are smaller threads.
Anyways, I haven't had a strong, or very vocal opinion on this subject
the OL too Britt. Taking the trolls behind the woodshed.
Yes - it's a problem. The only "bitching" going on is the same handful of regulars trolling, not even looking to talk football. Thats the element that keeps civilized people away.
Certain people expressed displeasure with OBJ not being at OTA's and some people disagreed and gave their opinion. The ones that immediately wanted him gone and called him selfish, a cancer, a bad teammate, those guys were met with posters who went for the jugular and as they should. It's a stupid opionion.
an NFL person - coach or player who thinks OTA's are that helpful. You basically have guys in shorts doing walkthroughs. Contact is supposed to be illegal.
The best thing a coach will say is that OTS'a help players get to know one another and for the rookies and young guys, it gives them a chance to start to learn the NFL culture. The benefit in OTA's from a coaching perspective is cohesiveness and attempting to get on the same page.
From a player's standpoint, it is a time to be with the team and for those with something to prove - a chance to impress and leave a positive view with the coaches. For veteran's and the players in the middle, it is nothing more than a glorified workout, and one that usually isn't as intense as their private workouts.
OTA's aren't essential to play in September. Having them "seem" important doesn't make them so. Even this statement tries to show the importance of OTA's, but it actually means the opposite:
Quote:
I'm not sure how you can think OTA's arent important. Of course players are going to skip and say they dont need them. But we all see the poor quality of play well into the season. The TV ratings dipping. The league needs more team practices, not less.
Play is shitty well into the season because actual practice time has been cut. The time players are in pads and can actually work on things has been reduced. The rise in the poor quality of play correlates directly to the reduction in practice time, and the introduction of OTA's, so as far as it relates to performance, the OTA's offer little to no benefit.
I'll say it again - contact is prohibited. Half-speed drills are the norm. The folly is thinking that is what is preparing teams for the season. If OTA's are essential, then ask why the quality of play suffers. It's because the actual practice time that does matter has been reduced.
LT's off the field problems actually affected play on the field, since he was suspended for four games in 1988. If he had played and the Giants had gone 3-1 in those four game rather than 2-2, they would have made the playoffs.
And yet, no one really cared because he was LT. Beckham isn't quite the LT of offense, but he's the closest the Giants have ever had to it.
an NFL person - coach or player who thinks OTA's are that helpful. You basically have guys in shorts doing walkthroughs. Contact is supposed to be illegal.
The best thing a coach will say is that OTS'a help players get to know one another and for the rookies and young guys, it gives them a chance to start to learn the NFL culture. The benefit in OTA's from a coaching perspective is cohesiveness and attempting to get on the same page.
From a player's standpoint, it is a time to be with the team and for those with something to prove - a chance to impress and leave a positive view with the coaches. For veteran's and the players in the middle, it is nothing more than a glorified workout, and one that usually isn't as intense as their private workouts.
OTA's aren't essential to play in September. Having them "seem" important doesn't make them so. Even this statement tries to show the importance of OTA's, but it actually means the opposite:
Quote:
I'm not sure how you can think OTA's arent important. Of course players are going to skip and say they dont need them. But we all see the poor quality of play well into the season. The TV ratings dipping. The league needs more team practices, not less.
Play is shitty well into the season because actual practice time has been cut. The time players are in pads and can actually work on things has been reduced. The rise in the poor quality of play correlates directly to the reduction in practice time, and the introduction of OTA's, so as far as it relates to performance, the OTA's offer little to no benefit.
I'll say it again - contact is prohibited. Half-speed drills are the norm. The folly is thinking that is what is preparing teams for the season. If OTA's are essential, then ask why the quality of play suffers. It's because the actual practice time that does matter has been reduced.
I actually agree with your opinion.
However, with Beckham, I don't think the OTA's are the only reason people are upset. It's a culmination of things that have led to this.
The boat trip immediately followed by a poor playoff performance that made the Beckham the story all week and was arguably a distraction.
The no show at the Duke workout where every other receiver and TE on the team attended. For as little practice time as they have, a workout like that can be beneficial.
People are annoyed, and I can't fault them for having that opinion, especially when we're about to pay the guy big time and people want to know that he can be counted on.
LT's off the field problems actually affected play on the field, since he was suspended for four games in 1988. If he had played and the Giants had gone 3-1 in those four game rather than 2-2, they would have made the playoffs.
And yet, no one really cared because he was LT. Beckham isn't quite the LT of offense, but he's the closest the Giants have ever had to it.
Exactly.
Different times, different circumstances. It's a technology age.
The big difference I get from reading the posts on the subject is, there are some people on here who question if OBJ gives a crap if he's on the Giants. The perception that he's about himself only and maximizing his brand.
The perception with LT was, he was wild BUT you never questioned his commitment to the Giants (yes, there were hold-outs, but you always knew he'd be a Giant for life).
That being said, I don't think anybody here knows one way or another.
what isn't outrageous? To have some concern or to say we need to trade him. Is calling him a bad teammate or a cancer outrageous? I don't think anyone has attacked anyone else for having concern regarding his behavior. Having that opinion is fair. I have not seen anyone get attacked for having that very reasonable concern.
and I think most people would agree. You seem to be missing the part that people took it like 96 steps further. Please show me where someone got attacked for being annoyed. People were responded to harshly when they went way beyond that and I seem to be missing that part.
that of why OBJ was in Miami.. Only only of those things can cost you game and multiple games the other is just crap made up by the media.. I am sure LT wasn't sitting and watching game film on all his days off..
OL is a real concern and JR hasn't been able to address it properly in over 5 years is blameworthy..
People are annoyed, and I can't fault them for having that opinion, especially when we're about to pay the guy big time and people want to know that he can be counted on.
It's not outrageous
But are we annoyed because we think Beckham should be there, or are we mad because we are being told we should be angry? That's the rub for me. I can count on one hand the number of times a player skips OTA's and makes news. The need to fill space in June is making innocuous things try to be more important than they are. Our reaction isn't ridiculous - the assumptions made during the reporting of these things is.
Case in point - the group of WR's parties on an off day, it gets posted to social media and everyone has a cow. The defense parties probably even harder on that day, but there isn't any visibility of it, so everything is OK. The WR's have a bad game and people blame the boat. The defense gives up 38 points and????? Crickets.
I'm still angry that the majority of the way Beckham is viewed is because a team was allowed to bring a baseball bat onto a field to intimidate pre-game, a trash-talking CB was allowed to bodyslam him on the game's 2nd play, but when Beckham earholes him and Aikman and Buck go nuts, he's public enemy #1 and has stayed that way. Meanwhile, try and find an interview with Josh Norman since that day where he doesn't mention Beckham, yet everytime he does it gets reported.
The narrative has been written and the spotlight shined. If he went to OTA's, we'd probably have heard how he was posting to Twitter during drills and seen out with Iggy at night and still not taking shit seriously. It's a lose-lose situation for him now. If I was in his place, I'd probably want to give most everybody a big F U.
If he repeats them, then that's on him, not OTAs..The major import of OTAs have been summed up nicely by FMiC, imv..I would add that any and all CLASSROOM stuff is of value, especially for the rookies..
People are annoyed, and I can't fault them for having that opinion, especially when we're about to pay the guy big time and people want to know that he can be counted on.
It's not outrageous
But are we annoyed because we think Beckham should be there, or are we mad because we are being told we should be angry? That's the rub for me. I can count on one hand the number of times a player skips OTA's and makes news. The need to fill space in June is making innocuous things try to be more important than they are. Our reaction isn't ridiculous - the assumptions made during the reporting of these things is.
Case in point - the group of WR's parties on an off day, it gets posted to social media and everyone has a cow. The defense parties probably even harder on that day, but there isn't any visibility of it, so everything is OK. The WR's have a bad game and people blame the boat. The defense gives up 38 points and????? Crickets.
I'm still angry that the majority of the way Beckham is viewed is because a team was allowed to bring a baseball bat onto a field to intimidate pre-game, a trash-talking CB was allowed to bodyslam him on the game's 2nd play, but when Beckham earholes him and Aikman and Buck go nuts, he's public enemy #1 and has stayed that way. Meanwhile, try and find an interview with Josh Norman since that day where he doesn't mention Beckham, yet everytime he does it gets reported.
The narrative has been written and the spotlight shined. If he went to OTA's, we'd probably have heard how he was posting to Twitter during drills and seen out with Iggy at night and still not taking shit seriously. It's a lose-lose situation for him now. If I was in his place, I'd probably want to give most everybody a big F U.
Blowing off Eli and the rest of the receivers at Duke is what bothers me the most, personally, and it's not even close. The rest are just minor blips, and it was the Duke blowoff that got the least news coverage.
The offense took a giant step back last year. It would give me the warm and fuzzies as a fan to think that that bothers everybody on the team, especially our star players, enough to at least give the impression that they are buying in, and working hard to be better next year.
Maybe that's a little selfishness from me, the fan. But that's part of being a fan, isn't it?
OBJ wants everybody to believe that he cares so much about the team...
I mean, the whole punching holes in the Green Bay lockerroom, going on twitter and saying that us fans haven't seen anything yet, that he's going to work harder than ever and this will be the best season, etc...
But his actions lately don't reflect that chatter.
Optics only matter to shut up the people that need to make a story. In reality, it means nothing because impressions is just a feeling you get. OBJ and Eli have no problems with chemistry as you can see by his first 3 seasons in the league.
Is he not working out? Is he not trying to perfect his craft? Maybe you know something that I don't. Again, the optics will prove that it's not just chatter? cmon.
I'm not here to bash the guy or defend the guy....
Quite honestly, my interest in the NFL (and by proxy the Giants) has greatly diminished over the past two or three years. The level of play, the officiating (and the Giants poor record over much of that span), have made it very hard to watch.
I still watch every game, but I don't follow it all with the same fervor and enthusiasm as I used to here.
I'll tune in this September and hope for the best. I hope Beckham puts up better numbers than ever.
RE: OBJ wants everybody to believe that he cares so much about the team...
I mean, the whole punching holes in the Green Bay lockerroom, going on twitter and saying that us fans haven't seen anything yet, that he's going to work harder than ever and this will be the best season, etc...
But his actions lately don't reflect that chatter.
This is a reasonable opinion to express. I'm in the camp that think it's better were he at OTAs, but is confident he was working out very hard out west so it's not that big of a deal. Maybe he was firing a subtle warning shot about wanting a new deal, maybe not
There's a difference between the way you expressed your opinion and the over the top reactions by some - the latter is what I find really grating, and often jump on threads to sarcasticly mock.
Blowing off Eli and the rest of the receivers at Duke is what bothers me the most, personally, and it's not even close. The rest are just minor blips, and it was the Duke blowoff that got the least news coverage.
You're never going to get a good read on Eli, but from what I've heard is that Eli was happy to get time to work with the other guys. He already knows what he has in Beckham. And as a side note, I heard that was more of a perk thing anyway to go to Duke. Duke used it as a recruiting tool for prospects, the Giants got to meet and spend time with Coach K, and they had some evening outings that were probably more of a thrill for Adams and King than anything else.
I agree that I doubt Eli cared about it at all....
LT's off the field problems actually affected play on the field, since he was suspended for four games in 1988. If he had played and the Giants had gone 3-1 in those four game rather than 2-2, they would have made the playoffs.
And yet, no one really cared because he was LT. Beckham isn't quite the LT of offense, but he's the closest the Giants have ever had to it.
Reese not overspending on free agent OL/reaching in draft.
or
How awful our #4 CB might be while disregarding the elite talent in the secondary that most teams would kill for.
Should have traded up for O.J. Howard.
Should have traded up for Garrett Bolles.
Should have drafted Forrest Lamp, or Cam Robinson, or Reuben Foster.
Should not have drafted Davis Webb.
What is wrong with Davis Webb? Seems like a promising prospect to me...
Should have traded up for O.J. Howard.
Should have traded up for Garrett Bolles.
Should have drafted Forrest Lamp, or Cam Robinson, or Reuben Foster.
Should not have drafted Davis Webb.
What is wrong with Davis Webb? Seems like a promising prospect to me...
"What will people bitch about now, oh probably the O-line...." As if the shitty state of the o-line for the past five years isn't worth bitching about, haha!
We've only been near dead last in rushing for a number of years, and can't pass protect, but much ado about nothing!
What were we on offense last year? 26th in the league? Nothing to see here!
what's your solution? overpay for mediocrity in free agency, pass on Engram/Tomlinson for mediocre prospects, or ...
Nuttin much buddy. Been crazy busy as usual. The main reason why I found your post so funny is because I'd noticed this 'Keith' poster sounding like he'd been around for a while, and I wasn't familiar with the handle, and didn't know it was you. Not being on the site nearly as often as I used to has made me lost track of some of the handle switching going on (the only easy one was Beez to Beezer!).
Glad to see you around though and hope you're doing well.
RE: OBJ wants everybody to believe that he cares so much about the team...
I mean, the whole punching holes in the Green Bay lockerroom, going on twitter and saying that us fans haven't seen anything yet, that he's going to work harder than ever and this will be the best season, etc...
But his actions lately don't reflect that chatter.
Thing is, you'd have to think all the emotion on field after losses was an act to think that he doesn't work hard. Green Bay wasn't the only time he was furious after a loss. And also, we already know that he was putting in work. It just wasn't at the facility.
the CBA, we're down to 13 training camp practices. 13. At least half of those are in shells. So that's 6 or 7 full padded practice the entire training camp. If anyone has actually attended a practice the (lack of demands) put on the players is striking. They are glorified jog-thru.
The team, as a group, needs all the practice it can get to put a quality product on the field. Our offense had the complexity of a fried egg last year. OTA's are important simply because the team does not spend much time together on the field, there's lots of roster turnover and it's showing in quality of play. It was a major subject of debate last year during the ratings dip.
Practicing, even if it seems stupid and pointless, and even if the format is as pussy as it is today, is how you execute crisply as a team. My old position is training camp was enough for the vets, but that was the 2-a-day, full contact format. those days are long gone.
The teams with the least amount of participation the past two years are the Chiefs, Packers, Seahawks and Bengals.
Getting the young guys and middle of the roster "on the same page" doesn't accomplish a whole lot.
Again - the issues with the quality of play eroding has correlated directly with the reduction in actual practices, and there appears to be little or any evidence to suggest OTA's help. There are teams that don't even require older players to attend OTA's. Why do you think that is - to retard team development?
big time, to be featured in this potential SB offense and glad to be back. At least according to the early press evaluations of this team. We will see.
In comment 13497225
Getting the young guys and middle of the roster "on the same page" doesn't accomplish a whole lot. [/quote]
This is my argument, too!
You've got people out here yammering about Odell's "timing" with Eli being critical and important, and there's almost a full six weeks off between the end of OTAs and training camp.
In comment 13497225
Getting the young guys and middle of the roster "on the same page" doesn't accomplish a whole lot.
This is my argument, too!
You've got people out here yammering about Odell's "timing" with Eli being critical and important, and there's almost a full six weeks off between the end of OTAs and training camp. [/quote]
The most critical people are all over the place on this thread.
Rarely see them not on the same page in a game. He seems to know all the routes and adjustments - OTAs wouldn't be much of a benefit for him or the team.
Optics only matter to shut up the people that need to make a story. In reality, it means nothing because impressions is just a feeling you get. OBJ and Eli have no problems with chemistry as you can see by his first 3 seasons in the league.
Idiots seem to sop up those stories and run with those narratives. Behind the scenes, OBJ is working his ass off. If this were a Knicks board, and OBJ was a franchise level player, people would be on his ass for going to Hakeem camp, while he's not there to greet the new rookies at Summer League.
The whole Duke camp thing, he said he had an infected tooth he needed to take care of. Is he telling the truth? I don't know, but at the end of the day I don't care. I've said since the Duke thing, the silver lining is new faces like Marshall and Engram gets a chance to develop rapport with Eli, and Shepard gets more exposure as well. Those guys need the reps with him more than OBJ does. He's not going to magically have a shitty season, because he missed a few days of working with Eli, especially when he's attended the last 3 years.
He knows he will be paid by the Giants it a matter of when (camp,during season, or next off).
Josina Anderson's tweet - ( New Window )
Has some pretty crazy hair.
And if you ever saw it,
You'd be well-advised to stare.
All of the other Giants,
Working out at OTAs,
Don't care if he's a no-show.
Don't read Raanan anyways.
Then one sunny April day,
Working on his speed.
Snapped a pic with bust Manziel,
Giants season shot to hell!
Schefter says holdout coming.
Florio says same thing, too.
Canty says he's too distracting.
Terps says time for someone new.
Stupid media drama. I had to explain to a couple of people that it was voluntary, that he's not the only guy to ever miss them. No big deal, really.
Yea I know a few tweets, blah blah, of course he wants more money, but the media makes it sound like he's holding out/missing games in the regular season by some of their headlines/wording.
The same posters will quickly find something else to bitch about
Reese not overspending on free agent OL/reaching in draft.
or
How awful our #4 CB might be while disregarding the elite talent in the secondary that most teams would kill for.
we should ask ourselves this every week. he's that good.
Stop. You know that it won't stop. There are certain people that have their minds made up and will never see the light. OBJ is an easy one. Sometimes you can see the other side, but this one is as clear as day. If you don't see that OBJ is a generational talent and if you don't want him around long term, than you are clueless. Plain and simple. There is no reasonable argument to the contrary.
He didn't want to make a liar out of Kim Jones.
Reese not overspending on free agent OL/reaching in draft.
or
How awful our #4 CB might be while disregarding the elite talent in the secondary that most teams would kill for.
Should have traded up for O.J. Howard.
Should have traded up for Garrett Bolles.
Should have drafted Forrest Lamp, or Cam Robinson, or Reuben Foster.
Should not have drafted Davis Webb.
eli was great last year and nowhere near 40, so definitely a terrible pick
The UNLV Hoops Players That Are So Hot That Drake Comes To Watch Their Games! - ( New Window )
The nerve of some people, on a Giants message board no less. Fall in line, people!
Black or white. No grey, no in between, one extreme or the other.
It's kind of funny.
I disagree 1000%.
But a discussion on BBI about a subject like this 10 years ago would have been 10 pages long with a bunch of people writing thoughtful, long, and drawn out posts backing their opinion up.
Now threads are rapid fire and usually don't last longer than one page.
Not to say their wasn't name calling, or nastiness or venom, but the posts no matter the side of the argument, were smarter and better stated.
We've only been near dead last in rushing for a number of years, and can't pass protect, but much ado about nothing!
What were we on offense last year? 26th in the league? Nothing to see here!
And how long have you been here? March 2016?
Quote:
.
Stop. You know that it won't stop. There are certain people that have their minds made up and will never see the light. OBJ is an easy one. Sometimes you can see the other side, but this one is as clear as day. If you don't see that OBJ is a generational talent and if you don't want him around long term, than you are clueless. Plain and simple. There is no reasonable argument to the contrary.
Yeah, he's like the Giant's Carmelo
To take the stance that OTA's dont matter considering how little the team actually practices together is off.
Quote:
than it's always been.
And how long have you been here? March 2016?
Britt, it's nice to meet you. I am formerly kmed, now Keith. I've been here for over 10 years.
Quote:
In comment 13496859 Keith said:
Quote:
than it's always been.
And how long have you been here? March 2016?
Britt, it's nice to meet you. I am formerly kmed, now Keith. I've been here for over 10 years.
what's up KMED! Hope all is well.
Quote:
In comment 13496863 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13496859 Keith said:
Quote:
than it's always been.
And how long have you been here? March 2016?
Britt, it's nice to meet you. I am formerly kmed, now Keith. I've been here for over 10 years.
what's up KMED! Hope all is well.
Whats up my man! I should have formerly introduced myself to avoid confusion.
I find it hard to believe you don't believe there's not difference in discourse between then and now.
I disagree, but it's not worth having the conversation, I have no interest in talking up how great BBI was then or how shallow it's become now.
Everything I've been stating has been from just observing.
Yes - it's a problem. The only "bitching" going on is the same handful of regulars trolling, not even looking to talk football. Thats the element that keeps civilized people away.
NYG haven't had a superstar like this since LT. Sure..Eli is a HOFer, but he's as bland as you get.
OBJ is a superstar on/off the field.
Imagine if there was the internet while LT was in his prime?
NYG haven't had a superstar like this since LT. Sure..Eli is a HOFer, but he's as bland as you get.
OBJ is a superstar on/off the field.
Imagine if there was the internet while LT was in his prime?
LT would have been suspended his whole career, lol.
The best thing a coach will say is that OTS'a help players get to know one another and for the rookies and young guys, it gives them a chance to start to learn the NFL culture. The benefit in OTA's from a coaching perspective is cohesiveness and attempting to get on the same page.
From a player's standpoint, it is a time to be with the team and for those with something to prove - a chance to impress and leave a positive view with the coaches. For veteran's and the players in the middle, it is nothing more than a glorified workout, and one that usually isn't as intense as their private workouts.
OTA's aren't essential to play in September. Having them "seem" important doesn't make them so. Even this statement tries to show the importance of OTA's, but it actually means the opposite:
Play is shitty well into the season because actual practice time has been cut. The time players are in pads and can actually work on things has been reduced. The rise in the poor quality of play correlates directly to the reduction in practice time, and the introduction of OTA's, so as far as it relates to performance, the OTA's offer little to no benefit.
I'll say it again - contact is prohibited. Half-speed drills are the norm. The folly is thinking that is what is preparing teams for the season. If OTA's are essential, then ask why the quality of play suffers. It's because the actual practice time that does matter has been reduced.
LT's off the field problems actually affected play on the field, since he was suspended for four games in 1988. If he had played and the Giants had gone 3-1 in those four game rather than 2-2, they would have made the playoffs.
And yet, no one really cared because he was LT. Beckham isn't quite the LT of offense, but he's the closest the Giants have ever had to it.
The best thing a coach will say is that OTS'a help players get to know one another and for the rookies and young guys, it gives them a chance to start to learn the NFL culture. The benefit in OTA's from a coaching perspective is cohesiveness and attempting to get on the same page.
From a player's standpoint, it is a time to be with the team and for those with something to prove - a chance to impress and leave a positive view with the coaches. For veteran's and the players in the middle, it is nothing more than a glorified workout, and one that usually isn't as intense as their private workouts.
OTA's aren't essential to play in September. Having them "seem" important doesn't make them so. Even this statement tries to show the importance of OTA's, but it actually means the opposite:
Quote:
I'm not sure how you can think OTA's arent important. Of course players are going to skip and say they dont need them. But we all see the poor quality of play well into the season. The TV ratings dipping. The league needs more team practices, not less.
Play is shitty well into the season because actual practice time has been cut. The time players are in pads and can actually work on things has been reduced. The rise in the poor quality of play correlates directly to the reduction in practice time, and the introduction of OTA's, so as far as it relates to performance, the OTA's offer little to no benefit.
I'll say it again - contact is prohibited. Half-speed drills are the norm. The folly is thinking that is what is preparing teams for the season. If OTA's are essential, then ask why the quality of play suffers. It's because the actual practice time that does matter has been reduced.
I actually agree with your opinion.
However, with Beckham, I don't think the OTA's are the only reason people are upset. It's a culmination of things that have led to this.
The boat trip immediately followed by a poor playoff performance that made the Beckham the story all week and was arguably a distraction.
The no show at the Duke workout where every other receiver and TE on the team attended. For as little practice time as they have, a workout like that can be beneficial.
People are annoyed, and I can't fault them for having that opinion, especially when we're about to pay the guy big time and people want to know that he can be counted on.
It's not outrageous.
LT's off the field problems actually affected play on the field, since he was suspended for four games in 1988. If he had played and the Giants had gone 3-1 in those four game rather than 2-2, they would have made the playoffs.
And yet, no one really cared because he was LT. Beckham isn't quite the LT of offense, but he's the closest the Giants have ever had to it.
Exactly.
Different times, different circumstances. It's a technology age.
The big difference I get from reading the posts on the subject is, there are some people on here who question if OBJ gives a crap if he's on the Giants. The perception that he's about himself only and maximizing his brand.
The perception with LT was, he was wild BUT you never questioned his commitment to the Giants (yes, there were hold-outs, but you always knew he'd be a Giant for life).
That being said, I don't think anybody here knows one way or another.
OL is a real concern and JR hasn't been able to address it properly in over 5 years is blameworthy..
It's not outrageous
But are we annoyed because we think Beckham should be there, or are we mad because we are being told we should be angry? That's the rub for me. I can count on one hand the number of times a player skips OTA's and makes news. The need to fill space in June is making innocuous things try to be more important than they are. Our reaction isn't ridiculous - the assumptions made during the reporting of these things is.
Case in point - the group of WR's parties on an off day, it gets posted to social media and everyone has a cow. The defense parties probably even harder on that day, but there isn't any visibility of it, so everything is OK. The WR's have a bad game and people blame the boat. The defense gives up 38 points and????? Crickets.
I'm still angry that the majority of the way Beckham is viewed is because a team was allowed to bring a baseball bat onto a field to intimidate pre-game, a trash-talking CB was allowed to bodyslam him on the game's 2nd play, but when Beckham earholes him and Aikman and Buck go nuts, he's public enemy #1 and has stayed that way. Meanwhile, try and find an interview with Josh Norman since that day where he doesn't mention Beckham, yet everytime he does it gets reported.
The narrative has been written and the spotlight shined. If he went to OTA's, we'd probably have heard how he was posting to Twitter during drills and seen out with Iggy at night and still not taking shit seriously. It's a lose-lose situation for him now. If I was in his place, I'd probably want to give most everybody a big F U.
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People are annoyed, and I can't fault them for having that opinion, especially when we're about to pay the guy big time and people want to know that he can be counted on.
It's not outrageous
But are we annoyed because we think Beckham should be there, or are we mad because we are being told we should be angry? That's the rub for me. I can count on one hand the number of times a player skips OTA's and makes news. The need to fill space in June is making innocuous things try to be more important than they are. Our reaction isn't ridiculous - the assumptions made during the reporting of these things is.
Case in point - the group of WR's parties on an off day, it gets posted to social media and everyone has a cow. The defense parties probably even harder on that day, but there isn't any visibility of it, so everything is OK. The WR's have a bad game and people blame the boat. The defense gives up 38 points and????? Crickets.
I'm still angry that the majority of the way Beckham is viewed is because a team was allowed to bring a baseball bat onto a field to intimidate pre-game, a trash-talking CB was allowed to bodyslam him on the game's 2nd play, but when Beckham earholes him and Aikman and Buck go nuts, he's public enemy #1 and has stayed that way. Meanwhile, try and find an interview with Josh Norman since that day where he doesn't mention Beckham, yet everytime he does it gets reported.
The narrative has been written and the spotlight shined. If he went to OTA's, we'd probably have heard how he was posting to Twitter during drills and seen out with Iggy at night and still not taking shit seriously. It's a lose-lose situation for him now. If I was in his place, I'd probably want to give most everybody a big F U.
Blowing off Eli and the rest of the receivers at Duke is what bothers me the most, personally, and it's not even close. The rest are just minor blips, and it was the Duke blowoff that got the least news coverage.
The offense took a giant step back last year. It would give me the warm and fuzzies as a fan to think that that bothers everybody on the team, especially our star players, enough to at least give the impression that they are buying in, and working hard to be better next year.
Maybe that's a little selfishness from me, the fan. But that's part of being a fan, isn't it?
But his actions lately don't reflect that chatter.
Quite honestly, my interest in the NFL (and by proxy the Giants) has greatly diminished over the past two or three years. The level of play, the officiating (and the Giants poor record over much of that span), have made it very hard to watch.
I still watch every game, but I don't follow it all with the same fervor and enthusiasm as I used to here.
I'll tune in this September and hope for the best. I hope Beckham puts up better numbers than ever.
But his actions lately don't reflect that chatter.
This is a reasonable opinion to express. I'm in the camp that think it's better were he at OTAs, but is confident he was working out very hard out west so it's not that big of a deal. Maybe he was firing a subtle warning shot about wanting a new deal, maybe not
There's a difference between the way you expressed your opinion and the over the top reactions by some - the latter is what I find really grating, and often jump on threads to sarcasticly mock.
You're never going to get a good read on Eli, but from what I've heard is that Eli was happy to get time to work with the other guys. He already knows what he has in Beckham. And as a side note, I heard that was more of a perk thing anyway to go to Duke. Duke used it as a recruiting tool for prospects, the Giants got to meet and spend time with Coach K, and they had some evening outings that were probably more of a thrill for Adams and King than anything else.
LT's off the field problems actually affected play on the field, since he was suspended for four games in 1988. If he had played and the Giants had gone 3-1 in those four game rather than 2-2, they would have made the playoffs.
And yet, no one really cared because he was LT. Beckham isn't quite the LT of offense, but he's the closest the Giants have ever had to it.
amen.
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My guess:
Reese not overspending on free agent OL/reaching in draft.
or
How awful our #4 CB might be while disregarding the elite talent in the secondary that most teams would kill for.
Should have traded up for O.J. Howard.
Should have traded up for Garrett Bolles.
Should have drafted Forrest Lamp, or Cam Robinson, or Reuben Foster.
Should not have drafted Davis Webb.
What is wrong with Davis Webb? Seems like a promising prospect to me...
Should have traded up for O.J. Howard.
Should have traded up for Garrett Bolles.
Should have drafted Forrest Lamp, or Cam Robinson, or Reuben Foster.
Should not have drafted Davis Webb.
What is wrong with Davis Webb? Seems like a promising prospect to me...
He hates America.
We've only been near dead last in rushing for a number of years, and can't pass protect, but much ado about nothing!
What were we on offense last year? 26th in the league? Nothing to see here!
what's your solution? overpay for mediocrity in free agency, pass on Engram/Tomlinson for mediocre prospects, or ...
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In comment 13496859 Keith said:
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than it's always been.
And how long have you been here? March 2016?
Britt, it's nice to meet you. I am formerly kmed, now Keith. I've been here for over 10 years.
Just getting a chance to read through this thread and got to this post and all I have to say is LMAO!!!!
Whaddup kmed!
Has some pretty crazy hair.
And if you ever saw it,
You'd be well-advised to stare.
All of the other Giants,
Working out at OTAs,
Don't care if he's a no-show.
Don't read Raanan anyways.
Then one sunny April day,
Working on his speed.
Snapped a pic with bust Manziel,
Giants season shot to hell!
Schefter says holdout coming.
Florio says same thing, too.
Canty says he's too distracting.
Terps says time for someone new.
LOL not bad.
Nuttin much buddy. Been crazy busy as usual. The main reason why I found your post so funny is because I'd noticed this 'Keith' poster sounding like he'd been around for a while, and I wasn't familiar with the handle, and didn't know it was you. Not being on the site nearly as often as I used to has made me lost track of some of the handle switching going on (the only easy one was Beez to Beezer!).
Glad to see you around though and hope you're doing well.
But his actions lately don't reflect that chatter.
Thing is, you'd have to think all the emotion on field after losses was an act to think that he doesn't work hard. Green Bay wasn't the only time he was furious after a loss. And also, we already know that he was putting in work. It just wasn't at the facility.
The team, as a group, needs all the practice it can get to put a quality product on the field. Our offense had the complexity of a fried egg last year. OTA's are important simply because the team does not spend much time together on the field, there's lots of roster turnover and it's showing in quality of play. It was a major subject of debate last year during the ratings dip.
Practicing, even if it seems stupid and pointless, and even if the format is as pussy as it is today, is how you execute crisply as a team. My old position is training camp was enough for the vets, but that was the 2-a-day, full contact format. those days are long gone.
The teams with the least amount of participation the past two years are the Chiefs, Packers, Seahawks and Bengals.
Getting the young guys and middle of the roster "on the same page" doesn't accomplish a whole lot.
Again - the issues with the quality of play eroding has correlated directly with the reduction in actual practices, and there appears to be little or any evidence to suggest OTA's help. There are teams that don't even require older players to attend OTA's. Why do you think that is - to retard team development?
Getting the young guys and middle of the roster "on the same page" doesn't accomplish a whole lot. [/quote]
This is my argument, too!
You've got people out here yammering about Odell's "timing" with Eli being critical and important, and there's almost a full six weeks off between the end of OTAs and training camp.
Getting the young guys and middle of the roster "on the same page" doesn't accomplish a whole lot.
This is my argument, too!
You've got people out here yammering about Odell's "timing" with Eli being critical and important, and there's almost a full six weeks off between the end of OTAs and training camp. [/quote]
The most critical people are all over the place on this thread.
I've been here for well over twenty years and this is so untrue
Idiots seem to sop up those stories and run with those narratives. Behind the scenes, OBJ is working his ass off. If this were a Knicks board, and OBJ was a franchise level player, people would be on his ass for going to Hakeem camp, while he's not there to greet the new rookies at Summer League.
The whole Duke camp thing, he said he had an infected tooth he needed to take care of. Is he telling the truth? I don't know, but at the end of the day I don't care. I've said since the Duke thing, the silver lining is new faces like Marshall and Engram gets a chance to develop rapport with Eli, and Shepard gets more exposure as well. Those guys need the reps with him more than OBJ does. He's not going to magically have a shitty season, because he missed a few days of working with Eli, especially when he's attended the last 3 years.