NFT: NHL Expansion thread

...#18, Marc Staal!"

My list:

Tavares, Ladd (NMC), Lee, Hamonic, Leddy, Boychuck (NMC), DeHaan, Pulock, Greiss

Expect to lose Strome or Nelson.

and then the Rangers to ship something to LV to get them to stay away from the forwards (Grabner, Fast, Lindberg). Maybe in combo with getting them to take on KK's contract.

If there are no trades, Vegas would do well taking any of those 4. There are different arguments for each, but I think they should take either Lindberg or whoever would return the most in a pre-arranged trade (could be any of them other than Fast).

Shattenkirk will be a Ranger for below market value

In comment 13496770 Patrick said:

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My list: Tavares, Ladd (NMC), Lee, Hamonic, Leddy, Boychuck (NMC), DeHaan, Pulock, Greiss Expect to lose Strome or Nelson.

Wow, Strome would be a big talent to lose. Fox had you exposing Hamonic and losing Bailey. If I was Vegas I'd be all over Strome as a 2C.
Link - ( New Window )

This was funny....

Quote:

Vegas Golden Knights ✔ �@GoldenKnights So @AnaheimDucks. 7 forwards and 3 defensemen or 8 skaters? We're asking for a friend. https://twitter.com/AnaheimDucks/status/873284244243488768 � 6:20 PM - 9 Jun 2017

In comment 13496789 Deej said:

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In comment 13496770 Patrick said: Quote: My list: Tavares, Ladd (NMC), Lee, Hamonic, Leddy, Boychuck (NMC), DeHaan, Pulock, Greiss Expect to lose Strome or Nelson. Wow, Strome would be a big talent to lose. Fox had you exposing Hamonic and losing Bailey. If I was Vegas I'd be all over Strome as a 2C. Link - ( New Window )

Yes but I don't have a ton of faith in Strome. He did take some some nice steps forward under Weight though. I'd think it's between Strome and DeHaan. Hopefully Snow can package both in a deal.

In comment 13496770 Patrick said:

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My list: Tavares, Ladd (NMC), Lee, Hamonic, Leddy, Boychuck (NMC), DeHaan, Pulock, Greiss Expect to lose Strome or Nelson.

I'll play.

Forwards: Tavares, Ladd (NMC), Lee, Bailey
Defense: Leddy, Boychuk (NMC), de Haan, Pulock
Goalie: Greiss

If we somehow convinced Boychuk to waive his NMC it'd make life a lot easier, because I'd then be comfortable with the 7-3-1 structure.

Forwards: Tavares, Ladd (NMC), Lee, Bailey, Strome, Nelson, Clutterbuck
Defense: Leddy, de Haan, Pulock
Goalie: Greiss

And a team in Vegas is utterly ridiculous.

that said, if someone they would take Staal and/or Girardi off the Rangers hands, welcome to the NHL boys.

In comment 13496788 Anakim said:

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Shattenkirk will be a Ranger for below market value

Looking forward to seeing whom they ultimately move to free up the cap space. Plenty of targets ...

like the plague. However I could see more than a few of them saying hmmm Vegas doesn't sound so bad to me...

too bad we can't expose that guy.

let me just say again.. fuck the Penguins and the obvious push for them to win the cup again.

back to the subject at hand:

If I'm the Islanders I would:

package Hamonic before the expansion draft for a forward. His trade value is higher than de haan, and it will allow you to protect de haan leaving the D as:

Boychuk
Leddy
de haan
Pulock

Acquiring a forward means that you are sure to lose one of:

Nelson
Strome
Bailey

Your forwards would be:
JT
Ladd
Lee
Duchene/Eberle type player

Or they could lose Prince or Hickey and we will all celebrate?

And for the Bailey haters... the 27 year old had 56 points last year. Yep, he's not Gretzky, but he doesn't suck as much as you want him to.

Leaving exposed:
Strome
Bailey
Nelson
Prince

I wish I could say otherwise, but I haven't seem anything from Strome that would warrant protecting him over Bailey. It's a shame.

In comment 13496807 Mike in Long Beach said:

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In comment 13496770 Patrick said: Quote: My list: Tavares, Ladd (NMC), Lee, Hamonic, Leddy, Boychuck (NMC), DeHaan, Pulock, Greiss Expect to lose Strome or Nelson. I'll play. Forwards: Tavares, Ladd (NMC), Lee, Bailey Defense: Leddy, Boychuk (NMC), de Haan, Pulock Goalie: Greiss If we somehow convinced Boychuk to waive his NMC it'd make life a lot easier, because I'd then be comfortable with the 7-3-1 structure. Forwards: Tavares, Ladd (NMC), Lee, Bailey, Strome, Nelson, Clutterbuck Defense: Leddy, de Haan, Pulock Goalie: Greiss

I can't imagine protecting de Haan over Hamonic he's a RFA and Hamonic is signed for three more years at <$4M and a right shot. de Haan is likely to get $4M as a top four guy in today's NHL.

In comment 13496832 Patrick said:

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In comment 13496807 Mike in Long Beach said: Quote: In comment 13496770 Patrick said: Quote: My list: Tavares, Ladd (NMC), Lee, Hamonic, Leddy, Boychuck (NMC), DeHaan, Pulock, Greiss Expect to lose Strome or Nelson. I'll play. Forwards: Tavares, Ladd (NMC), Lee, Bailey Defense: Leddy, Boychuk (NMC), de Haan, Pulock Goalie: Greiss If we somehow convinced Boychuk to waive his NMC it'd make life a lot easier, because I'd then be comfortable with the 7-3-1 structure. Forwards: Tavares, Ladd (NMC), Lee, Bailey, Strome, Nelson, Clutterbuck Defense: Leddy, de Haan, Pulock Goalie: Greiss I can't imagine protecting de Haan over Hamonic he's a RFA and Hamonic is signed for three more years at <$4M and a right shot. de Haan is likely to get $4M as a top four guy in today's NHL.

nah, you trade Hamonic and protect de haan.

I can't stand Hamonic. I always thought he was overrated, not just this year. He's a wonderful human being and I root for him, but I think de Haan is leaps and bounds better.

I'm so sick of watching Hamonic skate in with men open, corner himself along the boards, lose the puck, and take a penalty out of frustration.

In comment 13496844 Mike in Long Beach said:

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I can't stand Hamonic. I always thought he was overrated, not just this year. He's a wonderful human being and I root for him, but I think de Haan is leaps and bounds better. I'm so sick of watching Hamonic skate in with men open, corner himself along the boards, lose the puck, and take a penalty out of frustration.

Surprised to read this. I think Hamonic is a really good player. But I probably only watch 10-15% of Isles games and many of those are vs NYR where I'm invested and probably not super objective

In comment 13496856 bigbluehoya said:

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In comment 13496844 Mike in Long Beach said: Quote: I can't stand Hamonic. I always thought he was overrated, not just this year. He's a wonderful human being and I root for him, but I think de Haan is leaps and bounds better. I'm so sick of watching Hamonic skate in with men open, corner himself along the boards, lose the puck, and take a penalty out of frustration. Surprised to read this. I think Hamonic is a really good player. But I probably only watch 10-15% of Isles games and many of those are vs NYR where I'm invested and probably not super objective

bigblue, don't listen to Mike. His friend Mitch is in his year spewing venom.

Hamonic has disappointed and we all have/had high expectations. It more seems like he's playing scared since his injury.

When he's "on" and not being overly cautious, he's shown greatness.

In comment 13496856 bigbluehoya said:

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In comment 13496844 Mike in Long Beach said: Quote: I can't stand Hamonic. I always thought he was overrated, not just this year. He's a wonderful human being and I root for him, but I think de Haan is leaps and bounds better. I'm so sick of watching Hamonic skate in with men open, corner himself along the boards, lose the puck, and take a penalty out of frustration. Surprised to read this. I think Hamonic is a really good player. But I probably only watch 10-15% of Isles games and many of those are vs NYR where I'm invested and probably not super objective

I'm definitely in the minority on Hammer, but last year was just beyond atrocious. Dead last on the team in Corsi% (.43), dead last on the team in +/- (-21), and led the Islanders in penalty minutes with 60 despite only playing in 49 games. Just remarkably bad.

And is all not taking into account that it seems you can pencil him in to miss a month every year, too.

In comment 13496791 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

This was funny.... Quote: Vegas Golden Knights ✔ �@GoldenKnights So @AnaheimDucks. 7 forwards and 3 defensemen or 8 skaters? We're asking for a friend. https://twitter.com/AnaheimDucks/status/873284244243488768 � 6:20 PM - 9 Jun 2017

Haha - thanks for sharing

that it's the steady guys like Staal, DG, and Hamonic that end up pissing off fans when their games degrade. I guess it's that the guys without a superlative quality dont have anything to overcome the decline. Whereas a good PMD is likely still going to be able to pass it out of the zone when they lose their fastball even after they're done putting up 40 point seasons.

In comment 13496885 Deej said:

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that it's the steady guys like Staal, DG, and Hamonic that end up pissing off fans when their games degrade. I guess it's that the guys without a superlative quality dont have anything to overcome the decline. Whereas a good PMD is likely still going to be able to pass it out of the zone when they lose their fastball even after they're done putting up 40 point seasons.

deej, I don't think Hamonic has lost anything. I think he's injury scared. He's still young.. some guys can't get over the thought of "if I play hard, I'm going to be on the IR again".

In comment 13496885 Deej said:

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that it's the steady guys like Staal, DG, and Hamonic that end up pissing off fans when their games degrade. I guess it's that the guys without a superlative quality dont have anything to overcome the decline. Whereas a good PMD is likely still going to be able to pass it out of the zone when they lose their fastball even after they're done putting up 40 point seasons.

Staal and Girardi are 30 and 33, respectively. Hamonic is 26. If he's degrading now... oy vey.

I would say that Staal was never the same after his 2011 concussion and 2013 eye injury, in his age 24 and 26 seasons, respectively. His offensive game completely disappeared. His physicality was gone.

2010/11 he was a 29 point player. 2008/09 thru 2010/12 his hits were 189, 178, 140. Since that time, he's a <1.2 hit/game player and averages 16 points per 80 games. Other than a run where Stralman carried him, his Coris has been shit, after starting as a 56.1 and 54.7 CF% player his first two seasons (note: he played very sheltered minutes at first).

Beware a guy whose game changes after injuries. Just because he's in his prime seasons doesnt mean he's gonna get back to good hockey.

In comment 13496914 Deej said:

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Beware a guy whose game changes after injuries. Just because he's in his prime seasons doesnt mean he's gonna get back to good hockey.

I fully agree with this. Spot on.

That if you dont protect De Haan, vegas can actually sign him to offer sheet before the actual draft?

Im expecting some stupid overpay like barzal AND pulock for duch

After his brother laid him out, he was never close to the same player. Not that he was Scott Stevens before, but he used his size well and played a fairly physical game. After the concussion, that ended. What he became was a large, slow, soft defenseman without any puck skills to speak of.

Which is why he's been an anchor around their necks.

In comment 13496919 KWhite2250 said:

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That if you dont protect De Haan, vegas can actually sign him to offer sheet before the actual draft? Im expecting some stupid overpay like barzal AND pulock for duch

I can tell you with confidence that Barzal is not going anywhere at anytime.

I'm not so confident with Pulock. I get the Nino feeling with that one. It would be a significant loss, though.

In comment 13496920 Greg from LI said:

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After his brother laid him out, he was never close to the same player. Not that he was Scott Stevens before, but he used his size well and played a fairly physical game. After the concussion, that ended. What he became was a large, slow, soft defenseman without any puck skills to speak of. Which is why he's been an anchor around their necks.

Staal is a very long defender who is very savvy with his stick work. But that's all he is. A stick technician. Allergic to contact. And more often than not, taking the body is the correct play over fancy stick work. Im not talking laying a guy out -- just bodying up a guy is often more disruptive than going at his stick/puck.

Staal also cant pass the puck out of the zone. I have no recollection over whether that was an issue before the injuries, but right now teams know to pressure him. He wont make you sorry.

In comment 13496923 feelflows said:

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In comment 13496919 KWhite2250 said: Quote: That if you dont protect De Haan, vegas can actually sign him to offer sheet before the actual draft? Im expecting some stupid overpay like barzal AND pulock for duch I can tell you with confidence that Barzal is not going anywhere at anytime. I'm not so confident with Pulock. I get the Nino feeling with that one. It would be a significant loss, though.

I have high hopes for Pulock. I hope you're right about Barzal. He could be a very good #2 center and cost controlled for a long time.

draft is going hurt NYI. I'll be happy when it's over. Hopefully we'll have a Tavares extension to make us feel better.

but the Isles shouldnt make any prospect untouchable until/unless they get their player development issues resolved. They have had a lot of high profile flameouts of late. Are they picking the wrong guys, or not developing them from there. I cant believe it was just the coach's system.

hit. He was never a top puck mover, but he wasn't so useless in his own end before the concussion. In the face of an aggressive forecheck, he always just bangs the puck off the boards rather than being willing to take a hit to make a pass.

if it comes down to Fast, Grabner, Lindberg, and Raanta? Dont say KK/Holden -- obviously we're rather lose those guys.

I think we could most afford to lose Raanta. We've done well developing backup goalies. But Raanta may have high trade value now. I think he's more valuable than Talbot was when we traded him.

I'd be happiest losing Grabner. I just dont buy that he'll repeat, and then we lose him for nothing.

In comment 13497191 Deej said:

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if it comes down to Fast, Grabner, Lindberg, and Raanta? Dont say KK/Holden -- obviously we're rather lose those guys. I think we could most afford to lose Raanta. We've done well developing backup goalies. But Raanta may have high trade value now. I think he's more valuable than Talbot was when we traded him. I'd be happiest losing Grabner. I just dont buy that he'll repeat, and then we lose him for nothing.

My order (from guys I'm most willing to lose to guys I don't want to lose at all):

1. Raanta
2. Grabner
3. Fast
4. Lindberg

and are reportedly willing to take on someone's bad contract in exchange for a high draft pick or a good prospect. If the Isles are going to lose Strome for nothing then I hope the Devils can make a deal with the Isles. The Devils like to take chances on guys like that as it worked with Kyle Palmieri and the jury is still out on Beau Bennett.

In comment 13497191 Deej said:

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if it comes down to Fast, Grabner, Lindberg, and Raanta? Dont say KK/Holden -- obviously we're rather lose those guys. I think we could most afford to lose Raanta. We've done well developing backup goalies. But Raanta may have high trade value now. I think he's more valuable than Talbot was when we traded him. I'd be happiest losing Grabner. I just dont buy that he'll repeat, and then we lose him for nothing.

Well i'd grade the offseason an F if we lost any of them for nothing, as each has market value and it comes across as just lazy to lose any of them when we dont have 3 defenders on the roster worth protecting.

Even if we make a slightly 'bad' deal to shed 1-2 of them, that's still better than losing one for nothing.

But to answer your question:
1. Raanta
2. Grabner

...
...
...
...
...

3. Lindberg
4. Fast

And I'd consider firing AV and/or Gorton if either Lindberg or Fast was lost for nothing.

i'm willing to fire AV no matter what excuse you give me.

Interesting

but its close. And we're incompetent if we lose either.

Who are the high end flame outs you are talking about?


In comment 13497177 Deej said:

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but the Isles shouldnt make any prospect untouchable until/unless they get their player development issues resolved. They have had a lot of high profile flameouts of late. Are they picking the wrong guys, or not developing them from there. I cant believe it was just the coach's system.

In comment 13497314 theold5j said:

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Who are the high end flame outs you are talking about? In comment 13497177 Deej said: Quote: but the Isles shouldnt make any prospect untouchable until/unless they get their player development issues resolved. They have had a lot of high profile flameouts of late. Are they picking the wrong guys, or not developing them from there. I cant believe it was just the coach's system.

Srsly? Reinhart straight busted. Strome is moving backwards and is a disappointment vs his draft position (#5, with less points than picks 6-9). Niederreiter they bailed on way too soon, or Minny developed him -- pick one. If you dont have some concerns about MDC then I think your glasses are too rose colored. A skilled wing taken #5 should not play 2 seasons in the juniors and then put up 2/3rd line points in the AHL.

On top of that there have just been all these names floating around for years that get hyped up by Isles fans and then you never hear of the player. Look, I know it well. It was the Rangers for a while, except we didnt also have a group of top 15 picks with them.

The undersold story of the Rangers is how much they're getting out of guys who were neither FAs or our top 15 picks, who made their bones in the Rangers org. Zucc, Stepan, Kreider, Hayes, McD, Skjei, Vesey, Fast, Buch, Lindberg. Rangers finishing school may not be making superstars, but it's doing a staggeringly good job cranking out top 9 / top 4 talent when we havent had a first round pick since the Eisenhower administration.

Then Fast, then Grabner. Grabner's fast but I don't see him having another season like he did this year.

In comment 13497276 MetsAreBack said:

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Well i'd grade the offseason an F if we lost any of them for nothing, as each has market value and it comes across as just lazy to lose any of them when we dont have 3 defenders on the roster worth protecting. Even if we make a slightly 'bad' deal to shed 1-2 of them, that's still better than losing one for nothing.

You'd have to make 4 deals to guarantee yourself of not losing any of them. Cheaper to just pay off LV to take someone else.

It would hardly make the offseason an F to lose one for no return. We've lost better and more important players. I save my Fs for letting Stralman go for nothing.

or a F/G combination for the young D we've been looking for. So package deal.

Trouba, as an example, and likely Anaheim Ds would likely take more than just one asset.

Supposedly Calgary and another team out west have been asking about Raanta. Lets get that done.

But you're right... losing Raanta/Grabner wouldnt be an F. More like a D+.

Most concerning of all is apparently neither Staal nor Girardi were approached about waiving NMCs. I just dont think this franchise gets it on Defense. Mind boggling.

I think your cherry picking honestly. I mean reinhart busted. But before he busted they turned him into Matt Barzal and Anthony Beaivillier. Have you seen them play. You don't need Rose colored glasses to see how good they are.

Now your admittedly not an islanders fan so indolent expect you to know that strome was the scapegoat for Capuano for 3 years. And on top of that played a lot out of position.

Why didn't you mention nelson, dehaan, okposo, nielsen, Bailey, martin, cizekas,ee. They were all home grown players that have had positive careers. You may get islanders fans to say Bailey hasn't lived up. But he's coming off a 56 point season.

Do you know who Josh HoSang is.

Nino was a malcontent that didn't get along with management and they didn't stand for his bullshit.

My point it every team has their guys and misses just like the islanders did.

In comment 13497353 Deej said:

Quote:

In comment 13497314 theold5j said: Quote: Who are the high end flame outs you are talking about? In comment 13497177 Deej said: Quote: but the Isles shouldnt make any prospect untouchable until/unless they get their player development issues resolved. They have had a lot of high profile flameouts of late. Are they picking the wrong guys, or not developing them from there. I cant believe it was just the coach's system. Srsly? Reinhart straight busted. Strome is moving backwards and is a disappointment vs his draft position (#5, with less points than picks 6-9). Niederreiter they bailed on way too soon, or Minny developed him -- pick one. If you dont have some concerns about MDC then I think your glasses are too rose colored. A skilled wing taken #5 should not play 2 seasons in the juniors and then put up 2/3rd line points in the AHL. On top of that there have just been all these names floating around for years that get hyped up by Isles fans and then you never hear of the player. Look, I know it well. It was the Rangers for a while, except we didnt also have a group of top 15 picks with them. The undersold story of the Rangers is how much they're getting out of guys who were neither FAs or our top 15 picks, who made their bones in the Rangers org. Zucc, Stepan, Kreider, Hayes, McD, Skjei, Vesey, Fast, Buch, Lindberg. Rangers finishing school may not be making superstars, but it's doing a staggeringly good job cranking out top 9 / top 4 talent when we havent had a first round pick since the Eisenhower administration.

series, Fast is better than Lindberg.

I'd much rather lose Lindberg.

In comment 13497201 Jay on the Island said:

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and are reportedly willing to take on someone's bad contract in exchange for a high draft pick or a good prospect. If the Isles are going to lose Strome for nothing then I hope the Devils can make a deal with the Isles. The Devils like to take chances on guys like that as it worked with Kyle Palmieri and the jury is still out on Beau Bennett.

Yea The Devils will have a very intriguing off season. Starting with this week and the possibility of taking on a player that teams don't want to expose and lose for nothing, Then next week with the draft there is talk they may trade down from #1 to pick a Dman they like. Also there is the Kovy situation which will possibly serve as found money if they can get a solid return for him. Then of course UFA with all the money they have to spend. With the savvy Shero has shown in piling up draft picks and finding some diamonds in the rough I'm excited to see what he does.

In comment 13498076 pjcas18 said:

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series, Fast is better than Lindberg. I'd much rather lose Lindberg.

I think Fast punched above his weight that series.

I like both, but I like Lindberg a bit more.

I'd rather lose Grabner.

In comment 13498076 pjcas18 said:

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series, Fast is better than Lindberg. I'd much rather lose Lindberg.

Lindberg has greater upside. Fast has probably hit his ceiling, as a great 4th liner, good 3rd liner, who has some extra value because he can play all 4 lines without making a fool of himself (though he doesnt produce points as top 6er). Lindberg has more upside and even now, at his best, is better than Fast. Fast is just much more consistent.

I rarely focused on either play during the season (Fast or Lindberg). Only really noticed in the playoffs and Fast had the better playoffs (Canadiens series specifically by far) - but as Brett pointed out, sometimes that happens and may not be the best indicator of a players overall game.

But they're both 25, and both turn 26 this year, in general I question how much upside either has.

they're not college players, they've both been pro quite a while and neither are big men who you could say take longer to develop.

not saying they can't improve aspects of their game and this is just my general opinion, but by 26 years old I stop using upside with hockey players and hope to salvage a career and get consistent ice time as a top 9 forward.

In comment 13497480 theold5j said:

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I think your cherry picking honestly. I mean reinhart busted. But before he busted they turned him into Matt Barzal and Anthony Beaivillier. Have you seen them play. You don't need Rose colored glasses to see how good they are. Now your admittedly not an islanders fan so indolent expect you to know that strome was the scapegoat for Capuano for 3 years. And on top of that played a lot out of position. Why didn't you mention nelson, dehaan, okposo, nielsen, Bailey, martin, cizekas,ee. They were all home grown players that have had positive careers. You may get islanders fans to say Bailey hasn't lived up. But he's coming off a 56 point season. Do you know who Josh HoSang is. Nino was a malcontent that didn't get along with management and they didn't stand for his bullshit. My point it every team has their guys and misses just like the islanders did.

You may be right. But I note that your evidence that Im wrong, first and foremost, is your faith in the NEXT generation of prospects. Beauvilier (9-15-24 is just ok), Barzal (2 gps), and Ho-Sang (21 GPs). I dont know, I think it's worth noting that top picks who should be the young core already were slow/not developing:

MDC, 2014-#5: As I said, 2 years post-draft in junior (where he didnt become more dominant) and then a 41 point AHL season is a bad 3 yers for high skill winger taken at #5.

Pulock, 2013-#15. Played one NHL game last season, 15 the year before, at age 22. Of the 6 players taken around him (3 picks +/-), everyone else has played 54 or more games, with 4 of 6 at 140+ games. Notably, not a top 5 pick and a D so you need to cut more slack.

Reinhart, 2012-#4: 37 games played, traded, elite pick, massive bust. And a reach, IIRC. Next 3 picks were Rielly, Lindholm, and Dumba. That another team bailed them out with a trade doesnt remotely undermine my point.

Strome, 2011-#5: not a bust but a stalled disappointment. Fewer games and points than picks 6-9, and my recollection is that Strome was supposed to be the last of the top group talent-wise, not in with Mika and Scheifele. I agree with you that the coach misused him. That supports my point... it doesnt undermine it. (What point do you think Im making?).

Niederreiter, 2010-#5: Whatever the reason, he didnt develop like the Isles wanted him to, and they shipped him out, where he has flourished. Supports my point.

There you have it. You first pick in 5 straight drafts after JT in 2009. All disappointing on one way or another, particularly the four picks that were #4 or #5 overall. If you dont see an issue in the scouting-development of those 5 I dont know what to tell you.

That other players have developed is a worthy point, but doesnt offset the failure at the top of 5 straight drafts. Lee in particular is a good development story, although I think he's inconsistent as so many PFs are. Bailey is an inconsistent player, mildly disappointing for a #9 pick but not a knock on the org I think. Lee and Bailey play with JT, no? If that's the case he's probably contributing to their success. You'll take Nelson's production from a late #1, but it's not a home run that offsets the top of the draft issues. Same with Cizikas -- mazel tov, you've got yourself a small, agitating bottom 6 center in the 4th round!. de Haan is probably less than you want from a #12 pick, though that wasnt an amazing draft late lottery and he's fine. Okposo was drafted 11 years ago and is not better than anyone drafted ahead of him save Brassard (who was very disappointing but has settled in nicely as a 2nd line center).

Again, you have 5 straight top picks, 4 with elite draft positions, who did not develop as you would expect. There is no counter story there of late #1s and lesser picks turning into stars. If right now, you had the player taken the player taken right after each of those 5 picks, Brett Connolly, Mika Zibanejad, Morgan Reilly, Nikita Zadorov, and Jake Virtanen, your team would be WAY better. Indeed, the only player there worse than the guy the Isles took is Connolly, who is worse than Nino but Nino developed after he was traded.

I think Lindberg's upside is that if he can get more consistent, he's a top 5 third line center. The sort of player who makes the third line a secret weapon. Smart game to him, but the sort of player who will really hit his stride (maybe) when he is a real vet with 4 season under his belt. But I've always been a fan of him -- he was one of those prospects I had irrational confidence in as he made his way thru the Swedish League and the AHL.

...but as one poster put it if we lose either our FO is incompetent.

just gut instinct his upside is higher than Fast, more versatile as well.

so it better not come to that. Only reason either should be lost is in exchange for a young D-man

So Valiquette was officially wrong on Lindberg's eligibility? He came out and said OL wasn't eligible for the draft - i'm surprised as Vally is usually so spot on.. but i haven't heard any momentum behind that opinion.

but Valiquette seems the only one of that position.

And not produced much. Lindberg has produced at a similar rate while playing almost exclusively on the fourth line. I think that, if he switched places with Fast, that he probably would produce more than Fast has.

They're both solid and I'd rather not see either one go. Gun to my head, though, I'd prefer Lindberg.

There were times during the final third of the regular season where he flashed some nice offense in addition to really responsible 2-way play at the pivot.

But I don't see how it could be classified a tremendous failure by the FO to lose one of the two. There are limited protection slots, and I'm not sure who I leave exposed in favor of either player. Perhaps you could argue that it's a worthwhile risk to protect Lindberg and expose Grabner, kind of calling LV's bluff and daring them to take an older player with only one year of control, but you could easily regret that in a big way.

Sure, optimal roster management might dictate a trade to minimize ED exposure, but it does take two to tango and the trade floodgates haven't exactly burst open as yet...who knows if or when they will.

could be traded as soon as Saturday. Word is he'd be scooped up in a second by Vegas.

MTL coaching staff taking major hits on Beaulieu. Comments like "Maybe if he had a coach like Phil Housley in NSH he'd have met the expectations people have for him"

JJ Daigneault is the current assistant coach in charge of the defense for MTL, and there is talk about replacing him with Larry Robinson. I couldn't imagine many better mentors/coaches for young defenseman. At 66 I can't see him as a head coach again. And with Sergachev and Juulsen on the cusp of their NHL careers I think make the change now.

Raanta, Fast, Lindberg, and Grabner. We dont have 4 trades in us before the draft to get them all out of here to avoid losing them for nothing. Moreover, if you trade all of those 3 forwards, you're decimating your bottom 6. Whatever you take back would either have to be real kids (0-2 years experience) or would itself need to be exposed.

So realistically, we're either exposing them and hoping that LV, by some miracle, takes Holden or KK. Or we are paying off LV to take someone like KK. I really expect a payoff. At least a #2 pick, on the grounds that Raanta would 100% return a #2 pick after the draft, probably more.

Quote:

Again, you have 5 straight top picks, 4 with elite draft positions, who did not develop as you would expect.

...it's silly to even have an opinion on Pulock or MDC at this point.

And if anything, Pulock has looked like he has the goods with every (limited) opportunity he's gotten.

The other 3 guys I'll give you... but one of them was dealt for Barzal who certainly seems to have a far better upside at this point.

Have an ED-related deal in place with LV, presumably to navigate their protection dilemma on the defensive end.

In comment 13498437 bigbluehoya said:

Quote:

Have an ED-related deal in place with LV, presumably to navigate their protection dilemma on the defensive end.

They're dying to get rid of Bieksa

In comment 13498437 bigbluehoya said:

Quote:

Have an ED-related deal in place with LV, presumably to navigate their protection dilemma on the defensive end.

Quote:

Bob McKenzie‏Verified account @TSNBobMcKenzie 31m31 minutes ago It's believed ANA has a pre-arranged deal in place with VGK so it isn't necessary to ask Kevin Bieksa to waive his NMC.

I dont think you write things in stone on MDC at this point. Im not even suggesting what his outcome is.

But it's silly to have an opinion on him 3 years after drafting him? That's nonsense. You have to constantly evaluate your talent. 3 years is a lot of time. The 1-4 picks each have 2 full seasons of NHL time, at least. The #9 pick has 102 points. Shoot, you all traded Griffin Reinhart 3 years after drafting him.

MDC is at least behind a reasonable developmental timeline. It's hard to deny that. Could be a Drouin like situation where he comes on after early struggles. But it's insane to ignore it.

David Pagnotta‏
@TheFourthPeriod

So by sounds of things, Vegas has deals in place with Anaheim, Chicago and Columbus so far, related to the X-draft, with more coming.

In comment 13498599 Anakim said:

Quote:

David Pagnotta‏ @TheFourthPeriod So by sounds of things, Vegas has deals in place with Anaheim, Chicago and Columbus so far, related to the X-draft, with more coming.

I read somewhere CHI involves Kruger. Maybe LV agrees to take him. I'll see if I can dig it up.

I hope the Canadiens can somehow convince LV to pick Plekanec (assuming they don't protect him). I like Plekanec for what he is but for the $$ the Canadiens can get that elsewhere. And Plekanec is a UFA after the season, but could provide some veteran leadership to LV.

In comment 13498606 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 13498599 Anakim said: Quote: David Pagnotta‏ @TheFourthPeriod So by sounds of things, Vegas has deals in place with Anaheim, Chicago and Columbus so far, related to the X-draft, with more coming. I read somewhere CHI involves Kruger. Maybe LV agrees to take him. I'll see if I can dig it up. I hope the Canadiens can somehow convince LV to pick Plekanec (assuming they don't protect him). I like Plekanec for what he is but for the $$ the Canadiens can get that elsewhere. And Plekanec is a UFA after the season, but could provide some veteran leadership to LV.

I think it was Kruger and Van Riemsdyk to Vegas

in rounds 1-2 over the next two drafts. Book it. Then the owners are going to complain, forgetting that the reason these XD rules were put in place was because people thought in retrospect that the last XD didnt do enough to help, and that you needed better XD rules to entice a higher expansion fee.

something like that, where LV agrees to accept Kruger in a trade if CHI doesn't protect TVR or vice versa, they select Kruger and accept TVR in a trade.

there has to be a staff of 5 people keeping track of all this for LV with these pre-arrangements. I can see them trading some of the players or picks they pre-arrange to get. It could get complicated.

Cups with their respective stars.

The Islanders have had the picks to give Tavares elite talent and plenty of opportunity to trade for some (Kessel, Hall). Josh Ho-Sang isn't enough to keep him around for the next decade, IMO.

The Rangers have also had the opportunity to build an elite defense around Lundqvist and put the team up there with PIT/WAS. And they messed up.

Rangers took their shots. Many of them made sense. The defense was elite for a moment, and then the wheels really fell off the bus. Ultimately it wasnt enough. But they made a SCF and two ECFs. 6 straight years of winning at least a round, 2015-16 where they got knocked out by the eventual cup winner in round 1. That's pretty successful.

Now, they had a run where every decision they made on D blew up in their face. Staal and DG resigned, Stralman allowed to leave, Boyle signed, Yandle traded for and then misused. And I'd argue they squandered the early run of Hank's dominance by having a team that was not skilled enough to win 4 rounds.

Most of us saw it coming. Keeping both Girardi and Staal long term and allowing Stralman to leave were glaring errors that we talked about at the time as being big mistakes.

in that if you are a legit contender (or should be) and don't win a cup you lose and you're a failure. There is no silver lining or other acceptable accomplishment.

sure there is progress that you can view as a positive from year to year, and it's different if you're rebuilding or building, but ultimately the goal is to win a cup and whether all your prospects tank or they all provide you solid top 9/6 minutes if you don't win a cup you're a failure. The fall guy for the failures varies too based on if your issues are perceived as talent or effort/usage but either way, organizationally you don't win you fail.

and I think most teams view it that way too.

Now where exactly that cutoff is between rebuilding and contender is subjective.

Someone like Edmonton for example took way too long to rebuild and it cost their FO and coach their jobs.

Chiarelli stepped in shit with McDavid being there for the taking first overall, but that's how it works sometimes. Right place, right time.

but someone like OTT this past year outperformed their expectations, so are they or should they be considered contenders in 2017-2018? I don't know the answer.

"total failure". I agree that it's cup or bust, and so if you didnt win a cup you failed. But "total failure" has a whiff of stank on it. Rangers havent won a cup and the window is closing fast on Hank, but there is much to be proud of.

In comment 13498718 Deej said:

Quote:

"total failure". I agree that it's cup or bust, and so if you didnt win a cup you failed. But "total failure" has a whiff of stank on it. Rangers havent won a cup and the window is closing fast on Hank, but there is much to be proud of.

fair enough, I won't speak for Brett, but I guess there are different levels of failure.

In comment 13496766 Greg from LI said:

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...#18, Marc Staal!"

LOL

In comment 13496766 Greg from LI said:

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...#18, Marc Staal!"

Oops.. Was thinking about Jarret Stoll

In comment 13498776 Vin R said:

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In comment 13496766 Greg from LI said: Quote: ...#18, Marc Staal!" Oops.. Was thinking about Jarret Stoll

Drinky drinky, Erin

Goalie in the league for over a decade. Not to win one with a gift like Lundqvist is an embarrassment.

The Rangers have made one more ECF than the Senators since Lundqvist joined them. Not getting it done with him once would be a travesty.

Why? We gave him the worst roster I've ever seen. Rangers havent had picks in years, yet we have a bunch of good young players at the NHL level. Tells me that there was nothing left in the AHL, which is confirmed by just a glance at the roster.

It's funny, I praise the Rangers development success all the time. But how much of that is driven by the AHL club? Stepan, Vesey, Buch, and Hayes (and Hags) never played there. Skjei put in a season there. Zucc insanely played two half seasons there. Lots of guys with like 40 games there, McD, Kreider make me skeptical that the AHL did much. I thought Fast was there longer than ~60 games. Lindberg did 150 games there. Hrivik I think would make the top 12 on 20 or more teams from what I saw.

Also pj, forgot to flag something on Lindberg: he had hip surgery in May, was out 6 months (ie into the start of this past season), and I dont think he was ever 100%. Hopefully an offseason of rest/strength building pops his game another notch.

would be a big cost savings for NY.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13498898 Deej said:

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Why? We gave him the worst roster I've ever seen. Rangers havent had picks in years, yet we have a bunch of good young players at the NHL level. Tells me that there was nothing left in the AHL, which is confirmed by just a glance at the roster. It's funny, I praise the Rangers development success all the time. But how much of that is driven by the AHL club? Stepan, Vesey, Buch, and Hayes (and Hags) never played there. Skjei put in a season there. Zucc insanely played two half seasons there. Lots of guys with like 40 games there, McD, Kreider make me skeptical that the AHL did much. I thought Fast was there longer than ~60 games. Lindberg did 150 games there. Hrivik I think would make the top 12 on 20 or more teams from what I saw. Also pj, forgot to flag something on Lindberg: he had hip surgery in May, was out 6 months (ie into the start of this past season), and I dont think he was ever 100%. Hopefully an offseason of rest/strength building pops his game another notch.

100% admit you guys know Rangers prospects better than me, it seems nearly unanimous that among Rangers fans Lindberg is the preference over Fast. So I'm sure I'm wrong.

My admitted only significant exposure to either was the Canadiens series this year. I thought both looked like 3rd/4th liners on the Rangers which maybe could be bumped up a line on another team without their forward depth.

Fast had the better series, especially goal scoring. He had the backbreaking short-handed goal in game 5 - which in all likelihood decided the series.

they're 4th liners in NY, but each get bumped up as needed. On a less deep team I think Fast would be a fine 3rd line wing and Lindberg would be a fine 3rd line center now with the upside to be a difference making 3C. The sort of guy who they flag as a secret weapon/luxury type during national broadcasts. Upside, not there yet.

Fast is so interesting. Entered the organization as a speedy, light skill wing prospect. Develops into an ultra consistent defensive forward with deceptive heaviness to his game. And oddly he's fine playing either wing, on any line. Not ideal but it lets AV have a lot of flexibility when someone is out--he can move Fast from the bottom to the top, switching wings, and leave the 2nd and 3rd lines in tact.

being more valuable than the wing position.

I think Lindberg definitely has more all around upside, but Fast is playing Selke level defensive hockey (not that he'd win a Selke as long as his offense is lacking)..

It would suck to lose either for nothing.

would give up on Galchenyuk. He had 6 OT goals this year. the talent is not questioned.

They fire Therrien and bring in his fraternal twin, Julien, and wonder why Galchenyuk hasn't changed?

He had 30 goals as a 22 year old and a significant knee injury this year.

He's 23 years old, and has had over 25 point every year of his 5 year career, and over 40 the past three, including this year when he missed 20 games.

Quote:

BrianWilde‏ @BWildeCTV BrianWilde Retweeted BrianWilde The winds are swirling that Galchenyuk and/or Beaulieu will be dealt angling to get a centre in return. #OnVerra

which I believe is a stupid way to spell "center"

Canadian's pretty much invented trentese...

In comment 13499139 Davisian said:

Quote:

Canadian's pretty much invented trentese...

I hope that you've been mentally bracing for Shattenkirk. It sounds like it's gonna happen

The good news is that means they dropped another bad contract on D.

Bad news is new shiny not playing to its paygrade..

In comment 13499191 Davisian said:

Quote:

The good news is that means they dropped another bad contract on D. Bad news is new shiny not playing to its paygrade..

Supposedly they would get him at a "hometown discount". No idea what that would look like, but if it's south of 6 million, I'd dig it. On the other hand, the Devils have all the cap room in the world and can essentially write him a blank check (and he'd still be able to go home).

They'd still need to shed one of Girardi or Staal and it means no shot to keep Smith..

Just hoping Gorton makes some fuckin smart decisions..

this draft described as historically weak.

I view the NHL draft as a crapshoot anyway. A pick int he 21 - 25 range (where the Canadiens pick) has a less than 33% chance of playing in 100 NHL games.

that's the 1st round.

In comment 13498104 Stu11 said:

Quote:

Yea The Devils will have a very intriguing off season. Starting with this week and the possibility of taking on a player that teams don't want to expose and lose for nothing, Then next week with the draft there is talk they may trade down from #1 to pick a Dman they like. Also there is the Kovy situation which will possibly serve as found money if they can get a solid return for him. Then of course UFA with all the money they have to spend. With the savvy Shero has shown in piling up draft picks and finding some diamonds in the rough I'm excited to see what he does.

I do not want the Devils to trade down in the draft unless they receive a substantial return which they won't because there is no McDavid in this draft. As for Kovy I hope that he decides to return to the NHL and the Devils can get a 1st round pick for him even if it is in next years draft I would be thrilled to get something for him at this point. I have a feeling that he will decide to go back to the KHL for one more year then come over next year when he is free to sign with any team. Shero has done a good job so far and I am hoping that he keeps the #1 pick and takes either Nolan or Hischier and they play well this year. With one of them, plus Hall, Palmieri, and Henrique the Devils might be able to lure a star like Taveras to NJ especially if any of the young kids Zacha, McLeod, Bastain, and/or Quenneville live up to their potential.

In comment 13499393 Jay on the Island said:

Quote:

In comment 13498104 Stu11 said: Quote: Yea The Devils will have a very intriguing off season. Starting with this week and the possibility of taking on a player that teams don't want to expose and lose for nothing, Then next week with the draft there is talk they may trade down from #1 to pick a Dman they like. Also there is the Kovy situation which will possibly serve as found money if they can get a solid return for him. Then of course UFA with all the money they have to spend. With the savvy Shero has shown in piling up draft picks and finding some diamonds in the rough I'm excited to see what he does. I do not want the Devils to trade down in the draft unless they receive a substantial return which they won't because there is no McDavid in this draft. As for Kovy I hope that he decides to return to the NHL and the Devils can get a 1st round pick for him even if it is in next years draft I would be thrilled to get something for him at this point. I have a feeling that he will decide to go back to the KHL for one more year then come over next year when he is free to sign with any team. Shero has done a good job so far and I am hoping that he keeps the #1 pick and takes either Nolan or Hischier and they play well this year. With one of them, plus Hall, Palmieri, and Henrique the Devils might be able to lure a star like Taveras to NJ especially if any of the young kids Zacha, McLeod, Bastain, and/or Quenneville live up to their potential.

Jay.. that's a high hope!!

At this point, Kovy is a 20 goal scorer and that's it.. 1st round pick would be beyond shocking!!

In comment 13499333 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

this draft described as historically weak. I view the NHL draft as a crapshoot anyway. A pick int he 21 - 25 range (where the Canadiens pick) has a less than 33% chance of playing in 100 NHL games. that's the 1st round.

From Redline Report/USA Today

Quote:

And it gets worse, because not only is there not a lot of marquee value at the top end, in Red Line�s estimation, the depth of this year�s crop is lacking too. We look at the guys in the 30s, 40s, and 50s in our rankings and think that while they all have some traits we like, there are going to be a lot of second-round picks this year who will not go on to have stellar NHL careers. Perhaps just some food for thought for Las Vegas� management team when the 30 other NHL general managers offer up their second-round picks in exchange for staying away from a particular player in the expansion draft. Mental note: Make sure the picks they�re offering are for 2018.

I still assume that any team that is good at drafting can mine players. Hoping the Rangers land a RHD with puck moving skills.

good drafting teams can get talent in any draft.

the quality in this draft has a domino effect with LV and the expansion and all the transactions going to happen beyond simply who teams take.

I think this will be the most interesting off-season in the past decade (just throwing the decade out there, maybe since the last expansion)

fascinating things on the player transaction side that I've ever seen in any sport. The NHL purposely designed it so some real talent would have to shake free -- it was specifically discussed to get the franchise fee higher. First real cap era XD. And with all these NMC/NTC issues out there. I really hope someone is filming LVK's internal discussions.

It will be really interesting to see if LK goes to maximize talent or to maximize draft picks. Everyone assumes picks, but I think they should be wary about setting themselves for a decade of suck. I dont not think they can count on free agency, if only because the recent history of NHL free agency is that very few good players actually come free. Those that do are usually 29+ and wany 6, 7, 8 year deals.

Hard Knocks type of documentary.

There has to be a team of people keeping track of all the wheeling and dealing Vegas is already doing. they have to take 1 player from each team and can't take more than 1 player from each team and has to take enough salary to get to 60%? at least of the cap and they have positional selection requirements.

so they have deals in place as we've discussed with a number of teams (and I expect it will grow) to take certain players, to not take certain players to trade and then those assets would be trade capital too.

asking each team to tell them if they're interested in (1) paying off LV to avoid certain players and/or take a bad contract, and (2) trading picks/prospects for any eligible players on another team.

Im sure it's a bit complicated but not overwhelming. You do your first draft of the XD, and then make adjustments as deals come in. It's not like fantasy baseball -- they dont need to walk away with a playable roster.

but they have to take 30 players (14 F, 9D, 3G), obviously they can't all make the team.

10 of them, who have to qualify for selection in the first place, must be selected and then I guess traded or what, sent to the AHL? Not a lot of youngsters even qualify.

So there is going to be a lot of movement.

And much of it I think could involve multiple teams using LV as an intermediary.

In comment 13499484 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

but they have to take 30 players (14 F, 9D, 3G), obviously they can't all make the team. 10 of them, who have to qualify for selection in the first place, must be selected and then I guess traded or what, sent to the AHL? Not a lot of youngsters even qualify. So there is going to be a lot of movement. And much of it I think could involve multiple teams using LV as an intermediary.

14, 9 and 3 are minimums.

In comment 13499445 Deej said:

Quote:

fascinating things on the player transaction side that I've ever seen in any sport. The NHL purposely designed it so some real talent would have to shake free -- it was specifically discussed to get the franchise fee higher. First real cap era XD. And with all these NMC/NTC issues out there. I really hope someone is filming LVK's internal discussions. It will be really interesting to see if LK goes to maximize talent or to maximize draft picks. Everyone assumes picks, but I think they should be wary about setting themselves for a decade of suck. I dont not think they can count on free agency, if only because the recent history of NHL free agency is that very few good players actually come free. Those that do are usually 29+ and wany 6, 7, 8 year deals.

LV will probably be more likely to take picks NOT to take somebody unless they needed to get up to minimum salary

pj: I think they'll end up trading at least 5 guys they select, and with the AHL it shouldnt be too much of a problem. If they really hate what a team is offering, the may just take impending free agents.

mike: they're also going to rent out their cap space to teams that want out from contracts. apparently they already have a deal with CHI to take a contract CHI wants to be out of. I really thought there was a good chance that the Rangers were going to give them a pick to take KK and leave their other players alone, but now that KK is thinking about retirement I dont know. Still think NY bribes them.

seems like we might not hear the picks in full until Jun 21, unless picks leak.

In comment 13499508 Deej said:

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pj: I think they'll end up trading at least 5 guys they select, and with the AHL it shouldnt be too much of a problem. If they really hate what a team is offering, the may just take impending free agents. mike: they're also going to rent out their cap space to teams that want out from contracts. apparently they already have a deal with CHI to take a contract CHI wants to be out of. I really thought there was a good chance that the Rangers were going to give them a pick to take KK and leave their other players alone, but now that KK is thinking about retirement I dont know. Still think NY bribes them.

They need to meet a salary floor so it makes sense to take a few overpriced vets to help meet that so they can take the younger, cheaper players that they really want

In comment 13499403 feelflows said:

Quote:

In comment 13499393 Jay on the Island said: Quote: In comment 13498104 Stu11 said: Quote: Yea The Devils will have a very intriguing off season. Starting with this week and the possibility of taking on a player that teams don't want to expose and lose for nothing, Then next week with the draft there is talk they may trade down from #1 to pick a Dman they like. Also there is the Kovy situation which will possibly serve as found money if they can get a solid return for him. Then of course UFA with all the money they have to spend. With the savvy Shero has shown in piling up draft picks and finding some diamonds in the rough I'm excited to see what he does. I do not want the Devils to trade down in the draft unless they receive a substantial return which they won't because there is no McDavid in this draft. As for Kovy I hope that he decides to return to the NHL and the Devils can get a 1st round pick for him even if it is in next years draft I would be thrilled to get something for him at this point. I have a feeling that he will decide to go back to the KHL for one more year then come over next year when he is free to sign with any team. Shero has done a good job so far and I am hoping that he keeps the #1 pick and takes either Nolan or Hischier and they play well this year. With one of them, plus Hall, Palmieri, and Henrique the Devils might be able to lure a star like Taveras to NJ especially if any of the young kids Zacha, McLeod, Bastain, and/or Quenneville live up to their potential. Jay.. that's a high hope!! At this point, Kovy is a 20 goal scorer and that's it.. 1st round pick would be beyond shocking!!

FF thats what I though at the beginning, but there seems to be a real market developing for him and I'm thinking we can get something decent for him. No matter what its like found money. Yea Jay I wouldn't be big on trading down, but seems like there are some murmurs that they want a Dman and #1 is way too high for that. In the end I think you are right the return won't be enticing enough for them to trade down.

In comment 13499858 Stu11 said:

Quote:

In comment 13499403 feelflows said: Quote: In comment 13499393 Jay on the Island said: Quote: In comment 13498104 Stu11 said: Quote: Yea The Devils will have a very intriguing off season. Starting with this week and the possibility of taking on a player that teams don't want to expose and lose for nothing, Then next week with the draft there is talk they may trade down from #1 to pick a Dman they like. Also there is the Kovy situation which will possibly serve as found money if they can get a solid return for him. Then of course UFA with all the money they have to spend. With the savvy Shero has shown in piling up draft picks and finding some diamonds in the rough I'm excited to see what he does. I do not want the Devils to trade down in the draft unless they receive a substantial return which they won't because there is no McDavid in this draft. As for Kovy I hope that he decides to return to the NHL and the Devils can get a 1st round pick for him even if it is in next years draft I would be thrilled to get something for him at this point. I have a feeling that he will decide to go back to the KHL for one more year then come over next year when he is free to sign with any team. Shero has done a good job so far and I am hoping that he keeps the #1 pick and takes either Nolan or Hischier and they play well this year. With one of them, plus Hall, Palmieri, and Henrique the Devils might be able to lure a star like Taveras to NJ especially if any of the young kids Zacha, McLeod, Bastain, and/or Quenneville live up to their potential. Jay.. that's a high hope!! At this point, Kovy is a 20 goal scorer and that's it.. 1st round pick would be beyond shocking!! FF thats what I though at the beginning, but there seems to be a real market developing for him and I'm thinking we can get something decent for him. No matter what its like found money. Yea Jay I wouldn't be big on trading down, but seems like there are some murmurs that they want a Dman and #1 is way too high for that. In the end I think you are right the return won't be enticing enough for them to trade down.

I would hope they don't draft for need. They are in a good position to stock up on top talent, no need to trade down.

When it was first announced that Kovy was possibly coming over I said that I would be happy with a 5th rounder for him at this point. Then I read more and more rumors and each one seemed to imply that the Devils would be getting more and possibly a late 1st round pick. I would be thrilled with a 2nd rounder or a Dman prospect. I hope the Devils go with Patrick, unless they feel Hischier is going to be a star, and then look to free agency to add a veteran like Alzner. They could still add to the defense with their other picks or they could trade some for even more defensive help.

and maybe go D there. Shero has stockpiled a handful of 2nd rd picks so its very possible.

but I cannot imagine real interest in taking on this contract.

Quote:

Darren Dreger‏Verified account @DarrenDreger There is trade interest in Phaneuf. Final 4 yrs at $7-$6.5-$6.5-$6.5-$6.5. Quality shutdown guy, but Sens likely to take contract/$ back.

I don't hate Phaneuf, and he is a quality shutdown guy IMO but that's too much money.

In comment 13500642 pjcas18 said:

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but I cannot imagine real interest in taking on this contract. Quote: Darren Dreger‏Verified account @DarrenDreger There is trade interest in Phaneuf. Final 4 yrs at $7-$6.5-$6.5-$6.5-$6.5. Quality shutdown guy, but Sens likely to take contract/$ back. I don't hate Phaneuf, and he is a quality shutdown guy IMO but that's too much money.

Gives me hope that we can find a taker for Staal

He's better on offense. He's better at puck possession. He brings physicality. It will be a lot easier to trade DP than MS.

not really close IMO. Staal looked awful in the playoffs, like he would have been a healthy scratch if the Rangers had other options awful.

Maybe he can be dumped, not sure, but Phaneuf is a legit shut down D, who still has a really good shot, but that's too much money IMO for a 32 year old shutdown defenseman.

so to trade Phaneuf would need to be like to LV so they can meet salary cap or for another team's bad contract.

Hockey talk/news/radio broadcast that is streamable online?

People seem to think that today will be an active news day around the league and I'd be interested to keep an earbud in at my desk while I work.

In comment 13500674 bigbluehoya said:

Quote:

Hockey talk/news/radio broadcast that is streamable online? People seem to think that today will be an active news day around the league and I'd be interested to keep an earbud in at my desk while I work.

I listen to NHL station on Sirius from my computer. Other than that, it's a neglected sport!!

TSN radio or maybe sportsnet, one of the canadian sites

They didnt ask Girardi either, and then cut him a day later. Im not convinced that we have the full story on Staal. E.g., I think there is a chance that we have a deal in place to move him with a pick (probably our #1).

pj is right -- Staal was especially dreadful in the playoffs, where I thought he looked like a #8 dman. Remember how pissed we were about AV's usage? The usage was playing Staal and Holden, who were on the ice for all the blown leads IIRC.

on iheart radio.

Habs lunch from 12 - 1 with knuckles nilan.

I listen occasionally. Not much in terms of revelations.

you can stream the station all day I believe, but I don't think it's 100% hockey or especially interesting.
Link - ( New Window )

I signed up for a 30 day trial on Sirius.

Beyond the 30 days the cost sounds kind of ridiculous. I wonder if they'll negotiate. Either way, 30 day trial lines up pretty nicely with the upcoming active period of the NHL.

In comment 13500699 Deej said:

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They didnt ask Girardi either, and then cut him a day later. Im not convinced that we have the full story on Staal. E.g., I think there is a chance that we have a deal in place to move him with a pick (probably our #1).

I hope you're right, but I think its more likely the Rangers knew both Girardi and Staal wouldn't budge on their NMCs (probably asked them and their agents over the past year) and they are acting classy by not throwing either under the bus.

We already got word Girardi fully intends to play somewhere else next year, and unlike most here apparently, I do think he'll make someone's roster as a 3rd pair. Its bizarre to me we didn't try to shop him, retaining most of the salary but still better off eating two years instead of 4. The only answer in my head is Girardi refused to waive anything and instead wanted to be a free agent and control his own destiny.

Similar with Staal - would be shocked if we dealt him. If we do, I think I'd prefer to eat salary than include a #1 (of course we might have to do both).

.

.

Brennan Klak‏ @nhlupdate
Canadiens acquire Jonathan Drouin and a conditional 2018 6th from TBL in return for Mikhail Sergachev and a 2018 conditional 2nd.

In comment 13501138 Anakim said:

Quote:

Brennan Klak‏ @nhlupdate Canadiens acquire Jonathan Drouin and a conditional 2018 6th from TBL in return for Mikhail Sergachev and a 2018 conditional 2nd.

Saw that, kind of hard to be disappointed even though I think Sergachev has Norris potential.

In comment 13501138 Anakim said:

Quote:

Brennan Klak‏ @nhlupdate Canadiens acquire Jonathan Drouin and a conditional 2018 6th from TBL in return for Mikhail Sergachev and a 2018 conditional 2nd.

wow.. interesting!

I was excited to see Sergachev in the WJC, but he didn't really "show up". At least not the games I saw. He had a big year the year before.

I think he had a very good playoff.

Either way, very nice trade for the Habs. And they didn't give away who we thought.

TB must have been starting to feel the cap crunch after paying a lot of guys and moving Drouin as a RFA was a necessity. He finally started to realize that potential last season.

Everyone raves about Sergachev. Could work out nicely for both sides. MTL still needs a center though. Galchenyuk for Stepan, let's do this!

Drouin is on the cusp of stardom.

His stock was in the toilet a couple of years back, but the dude is a top-notch goal scorer

In comment 13501140 feelflows said:

Quote:

In comment 13501138 Anakim said: Quote: Brennan Klak‏ @nhlupdate Canadiens acquire Jonathan Drouin and a conditional 2018 6th from TBL in return for Mikhail Sergachev and a 2018 conditional 2nd. wow.. interesting! I was excited to see Sergachev in the WJC, but he didn't really "show up". At least not the games I saw. He had a big year the year before. I think he had a very good playoff. Either way, very nice trade for the Habs. And they didn't give away who we thought.

I think this definitely seals Galchenyuk's fate in MTL.

the funny thing is as dynamic as Drouin is, Galchenyuk's 21 year old season was better and Drouin can't play C either.

I like the trade for MTL from the risk/upside point of view. I really think he has the potential to be an 80 point wing. But I wonder whether the pressure cooker of Montreal is right for him, especially since he's semi-local.

In comment 13501151 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 13501140 feelflows said: Quote: In comment 13501138 Anakim said: Quote: Brennan Klak‏ @nhlupdate Canadiens acquire Jonathan Drouin and a conditional 2018 6th from TBL in return for Mikhail Sergachev and a 2018 conditional 2nd. wow.. interesting! I was excited to see Sergachev in the WJC, but he didn't really "show up". At least not the games I saw. He had a big year the year before. I think he had a very good playoff. Either way, very nice trade for the Habs. And they didn't give away who we thought. I think this definitely seals Galchenyuk's fate in MTL. the funny thing is as dynamic as Drouin is, Galchenyuk's 21 year old season was better and Drouin can't play C either.

I'm assuming that was his 30 goal season? Yeah.. I know I prefer him as well. I think Drouin is a stud, but Galchenyunk should be the centerpiece of that team.

In comment 13501146 Kyle in NY said:

Quote:

TB must have been starting to feel the cap crunch after paying a lot of guys and moving Drouin as a RFA was a necessity. He finally started to realize that potential last season. Everyone raves about Sergachev. Could work out nicely for both sides. MTL still needs a center though. Galchenyuk for Stepan, let's do this!

I like Stepan, Galchenyuk has more offensive upside but Stepan is a better all around player, and close to a 1C (if not a 1C) however Galchenyuk is younger and cheaper, so I think their sites are set a little higher, like Matt Duchene but I'm positive it would cost more than Galchenyuk for Duchene.

In comment 13501152 Deej said:

Quote:

I like the trade for MTL from the risk/upside point of view. I really think he has the potential to be an 80 point wing. But I wonder whether the pressure cooker of Montreal is right for him, especially since he's semi-local.

yeah.. the big question is, what kind of number did he give TB for his RFA contract? There's always a risk of a holdout with this kid.

In comment 13501157 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 13501146 Kyle in NY said: Quote: TB must have been starting to feel the cap crunch after paying a lot of guys and moving Drouin as a RFA was a necessity. He finally started to realize that potential last season. Everyone raves about Sergachev. Could work out nicely for both sides. MTL still needs a center though. Galchenyuk for Stepan, let's do this! I like Stepan, Galchenyuk has more offensive upside but Stepan is a better all around player, and close to a 1C (if not a 1C) however Galchenyuk is younger and cheaper, so I think their sites are set a little higher, like Matt Duchene but I'm positive it would cost more than Galchenyuk for Duchene.

That's surprising. Duchene is a nice player, but either you are overvaluing him or Colorado is.

My guess is the issue here is that he wants ROR's contract or better and Montreal is not excited about playing that.

In comment 13501164 Deej said:

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My guess is the issue here is that he wants ROR's contract or better and Montreal is not excited about playing that.

whatever he is expecting I can promise you Drouin is expecting a lot more.

is a Quebec native who makes his home in Montreal.

Don't think that fact had nothing to do with this.

In the past 12 months the Canadiens have traded two defenseman who I feel should be perennial Norris candidates in Subban and eventually it's what I think Sergachev will be (albeit that's a lot of projection).

Still if I'm MTL and expect to re-sign Carey Price throughout his prime I make this Sergachev trade 10 times out of 10, but I feel like it will work out for both teams.

In comment 13501167 feelflows said:

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In comment 13501164 Deej said: Quote: My guess is the issue here is that he wants ROR's contract or better and Montreal is not excited about playing that. whatever he is expecting I can promise you Drouin is expecting a lot more.

Im not so sure. The comps for guys taking a contract after 3 seasons has better players (to date) making in the low 6s. Galchenyuk being 2 years from UFA means that a long term deal is buying out more UFA seasons, and all other things being equal should be pricier.

In comment 13501171 pjcas18 said:

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is a Quebec native who makes his home in Montreal. Don't think that fact had nothing to do with this. In the past 12 months the Canadiens have traded two defenseman who I feel should be perennial Norris candidates in Subban and eventually it's what I think Sergachev will be (albeit that's a lot of projection). Still if I'm MTL and expect to re-sign Carey Price throughout his prime I make this Sergachev trade 10 times out of 10, but I feel like it will work out for both teams.

Habs seem to be in win-now mode. I don't know how I'd feel about this move since I don't know Sergachev. I think a move like this can definitely make them in the second class of Contenders behind PIT/WAS.

In comment 13501175 Deej said:

Quote:

In comment 13501167 feelflows said: Quote: In comment 13501164 Deej said: Quote: My guess is the issue here is that he wants ROR's contract or better and Montreal is not excited about playing that. whatever he is expecting I can promise you Drouin is expecting a lot more. Im not so sure. The comps for guys taking a contract after 3 seasons has better players (to date) making in the low 6s. Galchenyuk being 2 years from UFA means that a long term deal is buying out more UFA seasons, and all other things being equal should be pricier.

I'm thinking he is probably going to match or exceed Gaudrea ($6.75)

This is all baseless assumption, mainly because of the crap he pulled a couple of years ago.

aren't done IMO, before Saturday or before the expansion draft.

right now they'd have to expose Paul Byron and I see almost no chance they do that.

Sergachev is a big, strong, good skating, two-way defenseman.

Think Jacob Trouba, but better offensively.

In comment 13501181 feelflows said:

Quote:

In comment 13501175 Deej said: Quote: In comment 13501167 feelflows said: Quote: In comment 13501164 Deej said: Quote: My guess is the issue here is that he wants ROR's contract or better and Montreal is not excited about playing that. whatever he is expecting I can promise you Drouin is expecting a lot more. Im not so sure. The comps for guys taking a contract after 3 seasons has better players (to date) making in the low 6s. Galchenyuk being 2 years from UFA means that a long term deal is buying out more UFA seasons, and all other things being equal should be pricier. I'm thinking he is probably going to match or exceed Gaudrea ($6.75) This is all baseless assumption, mainly because of the crap he pulled a couple of years ago.

I've seen $5.5 - $6M as projections.

I tell him to fuck off if he wants Gaudreau's contract. He can take a bridge deal. He's likely not getting much more than that in AAV after 2 more years anyway, and if he is, it's because he broke out and it's ok to pay him.

Gaudreau got paid off a 78 point 3rd year. Drouin is literally 25 points behind that.

In comment 13501171 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

is a Quebec native who makes his home in Montreal. Don't think that fact had nothing to do with this. In the past 12 months the Canadiens have traded two defenseman who I feel should be perennial Norris candidates in Subban and eventually it's what I think Sergachev will be (albeit that's a lot of projection). Still if I'm MTL and expect to re-sign Carey Price throughout his prime I make this Sergachev trade 10 times out of 10, but I feel like it will work out for both teams.

I'm trying to understand this from Tampa's point, & I can't.

1) Why not build around Drouin
2) If trading Drouin, why deal to the team who just won your division?

many players in Gaudreau's class, and certainly not Drouin.

Like I said before, Drouin is viewed as the more dynamic player, but Galchenyuk's 21 year old season was better than Drouin's. I think the gap between Galchenyuk and Drouin is small if there is one and a case could be made for the 6'1"-6'2" 210 lb Galchenyuk over the 5'11" 180 lb Drouin.

And people underestimate Galchenyuk's skill IMO, he had 6 OT goals in 2017 and 30 goals in 2016, most of the OT goals on 1-timers, he's got a sick shot and is a great passer.

he's caught up in Julien/Therrien hell IMO and elsewhere would be a star.

I hope MTL keeps him, but it seems unlikely at this point.

In comment 13501194 pjcas18 said:

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aren't done IMO, before Saturday or before the expansion draft. right now they'd have to expose Paul Byron and I see almost no chance they do that. Sergachev is a big, strong, good skating, two-way defenseman. Think Jacob Trouba, but better offensively.

Yeah, I think they trade Nathan Beaulieu sometime soon

In comment 13501204 Rover said:

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In comment 13501171 pjcas18 said: Quote: is a Quebec native who makes his home in Montreal. Don't think that fact had nothing to do with this. In the past 12 months the Canadiens have traded two defenseman who I feel should be perennial Norris candidates in Subban and eventually it's what I think Sergachev will be (albeit that's a lot of projection). Still if I'm MTL and expect to re-sign Carey Price throughout his prime I make this Sergachev trade 10 times out of 10, but I feel like it will work out for both teams. I'm trying to understand this from Tampa's point, & I can't. 1) Why not build around Drouin 2) If trading Drouin, why deal to the team who just won your division?

TB was in cap jail. they have helped themselves dealing Bishop, Fippula and now Drouin and the expansion draft also played a part in this trade for TB.

before today they were projected to lose Namestnikov, but now they don't need to protect Sergachev (he's ineligible) and obviously won't need to protect Drouin any longer so they can protect Namestnikov

Kucherov, Hedman, and Vasilevskiy. Stamkos too, though that guys is kind of an afterthought. He could easily come back and pot 40.

Quote:

Joey Alfieri‏ @joeyalfieri Allan Walsh says Drouin's reaction to the trade was: "It's a dream come true" #Habs

I hope they keep both Galchenyuk and Drouin, but doubt it.

I don't see the point of trading Galchenyuk + for Duchene, I'd just play Galchenyuk or Drouin out of position.

And to the prior comment I don't think I'm overrating Duchene rumor was the Canadiens offered Sergachev and a 1st for Duchene at the deadline and COL, in a fire sale, rejected it.

I think Duchene is a 1C on most teams.

I had that backwards on Duchene.

MTL said no to Sergachev and a 1st for Duchene, Sergachev was deemed "untouchable".

In comment 13501198 Deej said:

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I tell him to fuck off if he wants Gaudreau's contract. He can take a bridge deal. He's likely not getting much more than that in AAV after 2 more years anyway, and if he is, it's because he broke out and it's ok to pay him. Gaudreau got paid off a 78 point 3rd year. Drouin is literally 25 points behind that.

I don't mean to compare the two in production.. just what I see him asking for.

In comment 13501297 feelflows said:

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In comment 13501198 Deej said: Quote: I tell him to fuck off if he wants Gaudreau's contract. He can take a bridge deal. He's likely not getting much more than that in AAV after 2 more years anyway, and if he is, it's because he broke out and it's ok to pay him. Gaudreau got paid off a 78 point 3rd year. Drouin is literally 25 points behind that. I don't mean to compare the two in production.. just what I see him asking for.

I understood that.

of the draft pick part of the trade:
If Sergachev plays 40 games or more (regular season and playoffs) no drat picks are exchanged, otherwise the Canadiens send a 2nd (that they received from the capitals in the Lars Eller deal) and receive a 6th back.

I doubt he plays 40 games unless there are injuries.

He turns 19 in 10 days. He played in 4 games this past season, I think he's ready but unless there are injuries in TB or they trade someone like Garrison I don't see Sergachev playing 40 games.

some speculate a Galchenyuk trade announcement.

Trouba? Hamilton?

Quote:

Eric Engels‏Verified account @EricEngels Also, it appears Alex Galchenyuk is very, very likely to get traded. Strong possibilities for a defenceman to come back the other way.

In comment 13501306 pjcas18 said:

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some speculate a Galchenyuk trade announcement. Trouba? Hamilton? Quote: Eric Engels‏Verified account @EricEngels Also, it appears Alex Galchenyuk is very, very likely to get traded. Strong possibilities for a defenceman to come back the other way.

Marc Staal.

WPG had great wing depth, and I the Habs need to be a little worried about resigning him and Drouin.

In comment 13501306 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

some speculate a Galchenyuk trade announcement. Trouba? Hamilton? Quote: Eric Engels‏Verified account @EricEngels Also, it appears Alex Galchenyuk is very, very likely to get traded. Strong possibilities for a defenceman to come back the other way.

How about Travis Hamonic

it means that Bergevin values Drouin + unnamed D (Anaheim D or Trouba, Hamilton, etc.) more than Galchenyuk + Sergachev.

seems like shuffling deck chairs (albeit quality deck chairs).

And they still don't have a C. Their 1C was Phillip Danault who is really a 4C. Plekanec is a solid veteran, but a pure finesse veteran (and I've made my feelings clear on finesse players) and 3C is Shaw/Galchenyuk.

if this happens with the 2nd trade the way people are projecting I don't see them as a better team other than the defenseman not being 19 years old, so I guess more "win now".

In comment 13501314 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

it means that Bergevin values Drouin + unnamed D (Anaheim D or Trouba, Hamilton, etc.) more than Galchenyuk + Sergachev. seems like shuffling deck chairs (albeit quality deck chairs). And they still don't have a C. Their 1C was Phillip Danault who is really a 4C. Plekanec is a solid veteran, but a pure finesse veteran (and I've made my feelings clear on finesse players) and 3C is Shaw/Galchenyuk. if this happens with the 2nd trade the way people are projecting I don't see them as a better team other than the defenseman not being 19 years old, so I guess more "win now".

I dont agree. I think:

1) Drouin just signed for less than I believe AG is currently demanding. So if you think they're equiv. players, Drouin has cost certainty and AG doesnt.

2) Obviously a Trouba/Hamilton for Sergachev effective swap advances the ball. Not "win now" since those D men are still young, but it's a future for a now player. You have Carey Price. You maximize his window, and a dman 10 years younger than him doesnt do that.

I dont think they'll get Trouba or Hamilton for AG. Though for the life of me I dont totally understand why Hamilton is so available.

Trouba or Hamilton probably isn't straight up for Galchenyuk. Hamilton was acquired for a 1st and 2 2nd's so yeah, Galchenyuk probably doesn't get him done. Though I do think hockey fans who don't watch him a lot tend to underrate Galchenyuk - he's an immense talent, stifled in his system IMO.

either way, if you're going to trade Sergachev, at least fill a hole, C (and ironically D) are the Canadiens biggest needs. Shuffling Drouin in and Galchenyuk out probably doesn't make the Canadiens better.

Depending on return for Chucky.

In comment 13500336 Stu11 said:

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and maybe go D there. Shero has stockpiled a handful of 2nd rd picks so its very possible.

That's a better strategy than trading down a few spots to pick a defenseman. There are a couple of undersized offensive defenseman that should be available late first.

In comment 13501811 pjcas18 said:

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Quote: Pierre LeBrun‏Verified account @PierreVLeBrun 13m13 minutes ago Hearing that Los Angeles, Montreal, Edmonton among the 12 teams on Dion Phaneuf's yes list...

I don't get it. Not for that price.

In comment 13501842 feelflows said:

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In comment 13501811 pjcas18 said: Quote: Quote: Pierre LeBrun‏Verified account @PierreVLeBrun 13m13 minutes ago Hearing that Los Angeles, Montreal, Edmonton among the 12 teams on Dion Phaneuf's yes list... I don't get it. Not for that price.

Same here. I'd expect OTT to eat salary at a minimum.

32 year old stay at home defenseman. too much money.

where DP is willing to be traded to, not where there is interest in him, no?

In comment 13501848 Deej said:

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where DP is willing to be traded to, not where there is interest in him, no?

of course, he has a limited NTC, that list is the 12 teams he'd accept a trade to. I was just saying I don't see those 12 teams being interested. at that price.

I could see Beaulieu, Galchenyuk, Brodin/Dumba and Vatanen all being moved today

for a young righty D talent before July 1.

In comment 13501893 Anakim said:

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I could see Beaulieu, Galchenyuk, Brodin/Dumba and Vatanen all being moved today

Hopefully stuff happens and the excitement isn't for nothing

In comment 13501911 JayBinQueens said:

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In comment 13501893 Anakim said: Quote: I could see Beaulieu, Galchenyuk, Brodin/Dumba and Vatanen all being moved today Hopefully stuff happens and the excitement isn't for nothing

The Vegas trade freeze goes into effect soon. I mean teams can always trade next week at the Draft but some teams have difficult decisions to make regarding who to protect (notably the Ducks).

In comment 13501912 Anakim said:

Quote:

In comment 13501911 JayBinQueens said: Quote: In comment 13501893 Anakim said: Quote: I could see Beaulieu, Galchenyuk, Brodin/Dumba and Vatanen all being moved today Hopefully stuff happens and the excitement isn't for nothing The Vegas trade freeze goes into effect soon. I mean teams can always trade next week at the Draft but some teams have difficult decisions to make regarding who to protect (notably the Ducks).

Yup - everyone thought the trade deadline would be busier this year because of the draft but it didn't really happen.

I'm still going to update twitter all day, hopefully some things happen.

most people expected a quiet deadline b/c of the expansion draft and the craziness coming this summer.

either way, I think before tomorrow's freeze there will be some activity and the expansion draft will be crazy and then post expansion draft it will be crazy all the way up to the entry draft.

even free agency will be unique this year b/c of expansion.

Rangers have set a high price for Stepan, won't move him unless it's for a "no doubt" 1st pair RHD.

Good.

just said he'd be surprised if Hamonic wasn't traded
Link - ( New Window )

According to Pierre LeBrun, the NHLPA is currently voting on making the upper limit of the salary cap for next season $75 million.

In comment 13501982 JayBinQueens said:

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just said he'd be surprised if Hamonic wasn't traded Link - ( New Window )

at his current deal, it better be for a return a hell of a lot better than Eberle.

Given the cap crunch, figure they're looking at Shattenkirk and similar with Smith as the fallback?

Sign one independently of a potential trade for a top pair righty D.

In comment 13502009 feelflows said:

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In comment 13501982 JayBinQueens said: Quote: just said he'd be surprised if Hamonic wasn't traded Link - ( New Window ) at his current deal, it better be for a return a hell of a lot better than Eberle.

Paging Joe Sakic. Customer in (a)Isle two wants a price check on Duchene.

In comment 13502027 marbles said:

Quote:

In comment 13502009 feelflows said: Quote: In comment 13501982 JayBinQueens said: Quote: just said he'd be surprised if Hamonic wasn't traded Link - ( New Window ) at his current deal, it better be for a return a hell of a lot better than Eberle. Paging Joe Sakic. Customer in (a)Isle two wants a price check on Duchene.

preferably as a Blue Light special... his asking price at the deadline was a bit steep.

In comment 13501977 Kyle in NY said:

Quote:

Rangers have set a high price for Stepan, won't move him unless it's for a "no doubt" 1st pair RHD. Good.

I like the suggestion of Stepan and Raanta for Jacob Trouba. I think that's fair for both teams

In comment 13502014 JonC said:

Quote:

Given the cap crunch, figure they're looking at Shattenkirk and similar with Smith as the fallback? Sign one independently of a potential trade for a top pair righty D.

I think Gorton would like both. I think they could fit both in, especially if Shattenkirk takes the rumored hometown paycut.

no? Can't see they throwing $5-6M per at both.

I think Shattenkirk can handle top pairing minutes.

McDonagh-Shattenkirk
Skjei-Smith
Holden-?
Staal

The Rangers have a couple of kids who might be able to handle third pair minutes. One of them might break through and take a role. I think that's good enough to win a Cup.

.

Stepan for one, is what I was driving at. Given that option, they might have to preserve some cap space, plus re-sign Mika.

Not sure Shatt + Smith at reduced dollars happens.

Then again, Nash is off the cap in a year and Staal's now pretty clearly on notice for buyout. In that sense, the cap crunch is one season, off the top of me head.

for sure.

In comment 13502079 JonC said:

Quote:

for sure.

To be fair, it only takes one team to prove me wrong. I don't have a good track record of picking contracts, anyway. I don't see the Rangers paying him that, though.

Offensively, yes, but defensively he leaves a lot to be desired. He's a second-pair guy who will be put on the top pair because of the contract and his offensive skills.


I would probably be more comfortable with McDonagh-Smith, Skjei-Shattenkirk

.

key dates before Wednesday's expansion draft.

The one that says offensive defensemen must be defensive liabilities. It's not true. Don't base your judgements off one playoff run with the Caps.

The metrics bare out that Shattenkirk is an excellent shot generator and a solid shot suppressor. Nothing to suggest he's truly a defensive liability. I think he's absolutely a first pair guy. For up to $6-6.5 million, I'm taking him

In comment 13502078 JonC said:

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Stepan for one, is what I was driving at. Given that option, they might have to preserve some cap space, plus re-sign Mika. Not sure Shatt + Smith at reduced dollars happens. Then again, Nash is off the cap in a year and Staal's now pretty clearly on notice for buyout. In that sense, the cap crunch is one season, off the top of me head.

I think that last point is key. The Rangers aren't truly in a cap crunch. And if there is one, it's just for this season. Seems like Nash is locked in for another season here (seems to be quiet on that trade rumor front). But once that deal is up, that's a lot of space freed.

It's why they can hold out on a big price for Stepan, because it's not just about moving that cap figure.

I think they can locking up Smith for 3-3.5 million and then getting Shattenkirk is realistic.

Now if a top pair D comes via trade then that changes everything. But that is starting to seem unrealistic

In comment 13502094 BrettNYG10 said:

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.

That he's not that good in his own end

but I think he will be overpaid and I hope it's not in MTL. Overall I'm not a huge fan of him. I think players like Shattenkirk, Yandle, Fowler have a role, it just needs to be on the right team.

I'd rather give 39-year old Andre Markov a one or two year lower $$ deal than a 5 or 6 year deal to Shattenkirk.

but some teams need offense from their defense as part of their system and if a particular team does there really isn't a better FA option out there than Shattenkirk this year.

In comment 13502124 Anakim said:

Quote:

In comment 13502094 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: . That he's not that good in his own end

Do you have anything to support your opinion or just regurgitating something you read?

He just has to be better than Klein or Girardi.

In comment 13502116 Kyle in NY said:

Quote:

The one that says offensive defensemen must be defensive liabilities. It's not true. Don't base your judgements off one playoff run with the Caps. The metrics bare out that Shattenkirk is an excellent shot generator and a solid shot suppressor. Nothing to suggest he's truly a defensive liability. I think he's absolutely a first pair guy. For up to $6-6.5 million, I'm taking him

Bullshit. Erik Karlsson is an offensive defenseman and he's not a liability defensively. Shattenkirk isn't a liability defensively, but he's not that good in his own end. He's not a shutdown guy.


Shattenkirk's not that good in his own end and it's not just based on his playoff run (though he was pretty bad in the playoffs and at reduced minutes too, I believe. I think he was on the third pairing with Brooks Orpik). He'd be excellent as a second-pair guy paired with a stay-at-home defenseman but I wouldn't be extremely comfortable with a McDonagh-Shattenkirk first pair.

In comment 13502129 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

In comment 13502124 Anakim said: Quote: In comment 13502094 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: . That he's not that good in his own end Do you have anything to support your opinion or just regurgitating something you read?

Watching games isn't good enough? You want me also to pull up articles about him too?

In comment 13502134 Greg from LI said:

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He just has to be better than Klein or Girardi.

He is and he'll help revive a PP that is anemic as any in the NHL

In comment 13502136 Anakim said:

Quote:

In comment 13502129 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: In comment 13502124 Anakim said: Quote: In comment 13502094 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: . That he's not that good in his own end Do you have anything to support your opinion or just regurgitating something you read? Watching games isn't good enough? You want me also to pull up articles about him too?

He suppresses shot attempts and scoring chances at an above-average rate. Saying he leaves a lot to be desired defensively isn't really supported by anything.

In comment 13502030 feelflows said:

Quote:

In comment 13502027 marbles said: Quote: In comment 13502009 feelflows said: Quote: In comment 13501982 JayBinQueens said: Quote: just said he'd be surprised if Hamonic wasn't traded Link - ( New Window ) at his current deal, it better be for a return a hell of a lot better than Eberle. Paging Joe Sakic. Customer in (a)Isle two wants a price check on Duchene. preferably as a Blue Light special... his asking price at the deadline was a bit steep.

From reports, Sakic was asking for a lot at the trade deadline. I am not faulting him for that.

But if sees the offers now aren't that much better than before, he may have to cut his losses and take a lesser deal (at least from what he was expecting).

is sort of the perfect guy to pair with Shattenkirk.

McDonagh is such a heady player and so responsible in all facets he'd probably thrive in that pairing and I'd put Kevin Hayes line with them as often as possible.

Just don't expect Shattenkirk to come out of the corners winning battles or to be stout in front of the net and you're fine.

It would be a luxury for McDonagh to play with Shattenkirk after the past few years of Girardi and you might even find McDonagh's offensive game improves too.

And the reason I'd do this if the Rangers sign Shattenkirk is because I believe if the playoffs are an indicator, Brady Skjei is on the verge of being a more complete defenseman than McDonagh. I loved what I saw offensively from Skjei in the playoffs and I feel like McDonagh has sort of stagnated offensively.

to see what McDonagh does after being freed from Girardi.

Him and Shattenkirk were paired together at the 2014 Olympics too, I believe

His offense has no business being this good. I sort of dont count on a repeat at all.

He's a great skater and showed great passing vision. I think it's reasonable. Took McDonagh three seasons before he showed a lot of what Skeji did offensively last season

In comment 13502143 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

In comment 13502136 Anakim said: Quote: In comment 13502129 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: In comment 13502124 Anakim said: Quote: In comment 13502094 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: . That he's not that good in his own end Do you have anything to support your opinion or just regurgitating something you read? Watching games isn't good enough? You want me also to pull up articles about him too? He suppresses shot attempts and scoring chances at an above-average rate. Saying he leaves a lot to be desired defensively isn't really supported by anything.

What does it tell you that essentially two teams have used him on the third pair? Because that's what the Blues and Capitals did. They put him on the third pair. He was sheltered in St. Louis and was pretty badly exposed for Washington. He was pretty bad in the playoffs as well, which opened the eyes of many who now thought of him as a product of the Blues system.


"Defensively I think we're sound as ever," Gunnarsson said. "Without Shatty I think we were lacking, especially the first couple games (of the playoffs), some offense. He was huge on the power play for us and that poise with the puck. Some guys stepped up."

In comment 13502148 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

is sort of the perfect guy to pair with Shattenkirk. McDonagh is such a heady player and so responsible in all facets he'd probably thrive in that pairing and I'd put Kevin Hayes line with them as often as possible. Just don't expect Shattenkirk to come out of the corners winning battles or to be stout in front of the net and you're fine. It would be a luxury for McDonagh to play with Shattenkirk after the past few years of Girardi and you might even find McDonagh's offensive game improves too. And the reason I'd do this if the Rangers sign Shattenkirk is because I believe if the playoffs are an indicator, Brady Skjei is on the verge of being a more complete defenseman than McDonagh. I loved what I saw offensively from Skjei in the playoffs and I feel like McDonagh has sort of stagnated offensively.

I see that reasoning. The thing is of the top-4, Smith is best as the stay-at-home guy. I'd like to see McD, Skjei and Shattenkirk pitch in as much as possible in the offensive end, but I do agree that McD has sort of regressed a bit offensively (at least when watching him). Still, I think AV would like him to pitch in as much as possible. I'm all about balance so if that does indeed happen, I'd like the partner of each to be defensively responsible. If McDonagh is ok with taking a bit of a backseat to Shattenkirk offensively, then I'm more than fine with the pairing.

However, though I do expect that if we sign Shattenkirk that he'll be paired with McDonagh, I don't expect it to be a shutdown pair. Productive, yes, solid defensively, yes, but not a pair that will shut down Ovechkin or Crosby like we've seen in the past. Will the pairing be better than McDonagh-Girardi? No doubt in my mind. I just would like people to temper their expectations a bit.

He's been in the top 3 for ATOI for the Blues since 11/12. Saying he's been used as a third pair guy is bullshit.

Why don't we. Every damn year same shit. Rags and best player..... blah blah blah.

don't shut down Crosby or Malkin.

Other forwards do, and rarely do they do it.

Someone like a Patrice Bergeron is the best way to counter Crosby, not with a defenseman.

Think about it, by the time you're defenseman is in battle with Crosby you're usually already in your defensive zone.

Crosby does the bulk of his damage dishing off in zone entry and cycling. I haven't met the defenseman with skills to stop it - not even someone like Scott Stevens though in his day he was the epitome of the guy who could, now he'd be perpetually suspended b/c he did take away the zone entry like no one else I've seen only now the way he did is almost 100% against the rules.

I understand the inclination to say Shattenkirk is an offensive minded defenseman (assuming people accept that, I won't debate it) so he should be partnered with a more defensive minded defenseman, but coaches don't always think that way.

I wouldn't because the other team doesn't attack the ice that way nor do they defend it that way.

In comment 13502200 Fish said:

Quote:

Why don't we. Every damn year same shit. Rags and best player..... blah blah blah.

Get used to it, next year we'll be talking about Tavares. Can't wait!

Will fuck shit up if it's talk of rags and Tavares.

In comment 13502324 Fish said:

Quote:

Will fuck shit up if it's talk of rags and Tavares.

Im a Rangers fan, and I think a year of that talk is out of line. I will quietly reserve my hope that he signs here, but it would be f'ing brutal to constantly discuss.

FWIW, I dont hear any JT to NY chatter. I think the Isles will trade him if they cant sign him.

today at 3pm.

Darren Dreger
Seems likely all of the #Isles trade targets will stay put today too, so likely to revisit that after expansion dust settles.
Arthur Staple added,
@DarrenDreger
Doubt anything "big" happens with the Isles today, but Snow is in a number of conversations, hoping to land a top 6 forward. Team to watch.


Arthur Staple‏
Would #Isles first or second round pick be enough to steer VGK away from the players #Isles want to keep?


Arthur Staple
If #Isles don't make a trade today, raises the likelihood they have a deal with Vegas to avoid picking prime unprotected players.

is for protected lists and trade/waivers/signing freeze for all teams except LV.

Right now Canadiens in a conundrum. Can't protect all of Paul Byron, Brendan Gallagher and Shaw.

Right now one of them would be exposed and they don't want to lose any of those three. Byron might seem the obvious choice but he makes next to nothing and way outperformed his contract.

If nothing changes. I suspect they expose Shaw. And I doubt LV takes him.

that Isles are most aggressive of talking to other teams to get a top-6 forward but most don't expect anything to happen today.

Staple seems to think that if Isles don't get a deal done today then they might send a 1st or 2nd round pick to Vegas in order to protect prime exposed players.

I'd hate to give up a 1st round pick, but CdH, Nelson and Strome are worth more than #14 overall in a weak draft IMO. I think Weight is the right type of coach for Strome and remember that Strome is still only 23 years old.

Those players are worth more than the #14 overall pick. They have been so poorly used, they need to be given a full season under Weight.

And throw in the fact that aside from Cronin, Weight brought in an entirely new coaching staff. Hoping Richardson, Buchberger, and Gomez can get more out of them.

I do not trust Snow to handle anything correctly. So I am crossing my hockey sticks.

15 picks in the first 2 rounds if that's the route they want to go. Turbo charge the pipeline.

In comment 13502729 Deej said:

Quote:

15 picks in the first 2 rounds if that's the route they want to go. Turbo charge the pipeline.

They should ask for some 2018 picks too to stagger things a bit.

In comment 13502768 Metnut said:

Quote:

In comment 13502729 Deej said: Quote: 15 picks in the first 2 rounds if that's the route they want to go. Turbo charge the pipeline. They should ask for some 2018 picks too to stagger things a bit.

I'd have asked CBJ for their 2018 pick - they're a team I think can fall a bit next year.

In comment 13502779 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

In comment 13502768 Metnut said: Quote: In comment 13502729 Deej said: Quote: 15 picks in the first 2 rounds if that's the route they want to go. Turbo charge the pipeline. They should ask for some 2018 picks too to stagger things a bit. I'd have asked CBJ for their 2018 pick - they're a team I think can fall a bit next year.

It's also a better crop of prospects in next years draft. McPhee must feel like a kid in a candy store with all of his options.

picks

Quote:

Pierre LeBrun‏Verified account @PierreVLeBrun Spoke with a GM yesterday who was guessing that Vegas already had 3 1st-RD picks in their back pocket with more picks to come before Wed

Elliotte Friedman‏Verified account @FriedgeHNIC
Im not sure of everything involved here, but hearing CAL and ARIZ are working on a Mike Smith deal

In comment 13502783 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

picks Quote: Pierre LeBrun‏Verified account @PierreVLeBrun Spoke with a GM yesterday who was guessing that Vegas already had 3 1st-RD picks in their back pocket with more picks to come before Wed

Hell, I'd give Vegas our first rounder if it meant not losing Raanta, Fast, Lindberg and Grabner AND taking Staal off our hands.

In comment 13502784 Anakim said:

Quote:

Elliotte Friedman‏Verified account @FriedgeHNIC Im not sure of everything involved here, but hearing CAL and ARIZ are working on a Mike Smith deal

Flames were supposedly interested in Raanta. The other team was the Jets

on with Wild so Wild can keep their D.

Plus as Anakim pasted before:

Quote:

Bob McKenzie‏Verified account @TSNBobMcKenzie 32s32 seconds ago As @FriedgeHNIC mentioned, ARI and CGY are indeed working to finalize a trade involving goaltender Mike Smith.

Brennan Klak‏ @nhlupdate
#Sabres trade a 2017 3rd rounder to #Canadiens for Nathan Beaulieu

only have 5 D on the NHL roster after dealing Sergachev (not on NHL roster technically) and Beaulieu.

OEL for Stepan/Raanta.

Do it, Slats.

In comment 13502816 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

OEL for Stepan/Raanta. Do it, Slats.

Don't teams have to expose a goalie?

So they can't trade Raanta before today's deadline at least unless they get an exposable goalie back. unless I misunderstand the rules.

Pretty sure it's why the Canadiens locked up Montoya though, so they could meet the expansion draft requirements.

In comment 13502815 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

only have 5 D on the NHL roster after dealing Sergachev (not on NHL roster technically) and Beaulieu.

Please pick up Marc Staal. Please.

will re-sign Markov (D #6) and I think there's a good chance Noah Juulsen debuts this year (D #7) and then guys like Zach Redmond probably get considered.

If the Canadiens do anything with regards to Staal where he isn't entirely paid for they deserve everything that comes to them, they saw first hand how bad he was in the playoffs.

I do however believe at some point this off-season they will trade Galchenyuk and it will likely be for a D. Not Staal.

In comment 13502822 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

Quote: Bob McKenzie‏Verified account @TSNBobMcKenzie 6m6 minutes ago Assuming trade call gets done, ARI to retain 25 per cent of Smith's salary. CGY will send rights to Brandon Hickey + conditional 3rd rder...

Brennan Klak‏ @nhlupdate
#Coyotes trade Mike Smith to #Flames for rights to Chad Johnson, Brandon Hickey + a conditional 3rd that becomes a 2nd if CGYmakes playoffs

make it harder for us to trade him, and harder for LVK to do the same.

Screw your details, pj.

I honestly don't know all the rules. I think you're right, I assume the Rangers would have to get someone back.

Genius:

Quote:

NHL Rumors‏ @NHLRumorsDaily 42s42 seconds ago More There is some smoke to the fire RE: the Yotes looking at a package of Antti Raanta and Derek Stepan from the Rangers

Joking aside, I actually don't see a logical fit in that deal. I seriously can't imagine OEL coming back and not much else intrigues me from Arizona that would make the Rangers better.

NOT to take Beaulieu so Canadiens said FU we're not losing him for nothing as LV was going to without a doubt take him.

Now Canadiens stand to lose Plekanec (fine with me) may enable a Radulov re-signing or Davidson, and if that happens Canadiens D is in major rebuild mode. Not that Davidson is great, but he's a decent bottom 4 pair D.

Quote:

Eric Engels‏Verified account @EricEngels 55s56 seconds ago Vegas is asking for major compensation from teams that are looking to have unprotected players go unclaimed.

Im not giving a #1 to protect the Rangers' foursome. We can only lose one of them. If we didnt have Lindberg or Raanta right now, would any Rangers fan advocate trading a #1 for them? Im not sure people would advocate trading our #2 for them (I think I would for Oscar but I'd have to ponder it).

for the 2018 and 2019 drafts to encourage them to compete. Give them the #3 pick for 2 years.

actually find out all the deals Vegas has in place to take or not take players or if we'll need to infer them based on other moves. Just not sure if any of this stuff is handshake deals or if it's all formalized through the league.

Quote:

David Pagnotta‏ @TheFourthPeriod 29s30 seconds ago My understanding, as part of Ducks/Knights expected trade, is Vatanen will end up in Vegas. Other parameters to deal, but that's main part.

LVK is either taking a bad contract or paying a pick back for Sami.

but not much action

In comment 13502851 Kyle in NY said:

Quote:

but not much action

Yep. Pretty disappointing.

Bob McKenzie‏Verified account
@TSNBobMcKenzie

Roster freeze is now on and NYR did not make a deal before 3 p.m. ET deadline. Not to say they won't when freeze lifts Thursday 8 a.m ET.

Weren't so risk averse. Not being called a fool is the number one priority.

with another team. Trade someone to another team and they have to protect the player. And a lot of teams are gonna want to wait to see what LVK has to offer in XD players before settling on someone else's product.

Im pretty curious to see if we made a deal. Raanta is worth a #2 plus to LVK, so that has to be the baseline.

CapFriendly‏ @CapFriendly
TRADE

To #Devils
Mirco Mueller
2017 5th round pick

To #Sharks
2017 2nd round pick
2017 4th round pick

Larry Brooks‏ @NYP_Brooksie
Rangers have nothing in place with Vegas. Unclear whether McPhee prefers Raanta or one of the forwards, NYR seem resigned to losing player.


Not happy about losing a valuable player like Lindberg, Fast, Raanta or Grabner for nothing. Would rather lose a second rounder next year.

after the release of the unprotected players. So I guess that means a team can have LV pick up a player they want from the unprotected list and then trade something for that player.

Bob McKenzie ✔ @TSNBobMcKenzie
NHL teams can resume trading tomorrow morning at 10 ET only if their trading partner is VGK. Otherwise, no deals/signing until Thurs 8 am ET.

In comment 13502860 Anakim said:

Quote:

Larry Brooks‏ @NYP_Brooksie Rangers have nothing in place with Vegas. Unclear whether McPhee prefers Raanta or one of the forwards, NYR seem resigned to losing player. Not happy about losing a valuable player like Lindberg, Fast, Raanta or Grabner for nothing. Would rather lose a second rounder next year.

1) Then you're losing a #2 for "nothing" (it's not really nothing -- it's the rules).

2) We might rather lose a #2 in 2018 than the players we had to expose... but maybe that wasnt enough for LVK for the same reason.

3) We can still deal with LVK. Our guy isnt gone til he's gone.

I forget how he defines "NHL Regular" I think it might be 100 games played.

Quote:

BrianWilde‏ @BWildeCTV 32m32 minutes ago BrianWilde Retweeted Sean Coleman Here are the percentages that a pick is a regular NHLer if one wants to do math: 1-5 96% 6-10 84% 11-15 60% 16-20 64% 21-25 46% 26-30 42%

out...Kings expose Gaborik and Brown, Caps expose Nate Schmidt, any more interesting names I read I'll post on here.

would prefer picks or to be bad than simply to pick the 30 best players.

were other expansions like this? I really don't remember.

In comment 13502858 Anakim said:

Quote:

CapFriendly‏ @CapFriendly TRADE To #Devils Mirco Mueller 2017 5th round pick To #Sharks 2017 2nd round pick 2017 4th round pick

Intriguing trade for the Devils. Former 1st rounder who has two way potential. The Devils are in dire need of defensive help and hopefully he works out like when they gave up a 2nd round pick for Palmieri.

In comment 13502962 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

would prefer picks or to be bad than simply to pick the 30 best players. were other expansions like this? I really don't remember.

Mike Richter was technically a Nashville Predator after their expansion draft, so yeah they've always been a little weird even if the rules are a bit different this time.

In comment 13502829 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

Joking aside, I actually don't see a logical fit in that deal. I seriously can't imagine OEL coming back and not much else intrigues me from Arizona that would make the Rangers better.

I don't agree. The Coyotes have many young promising players. I would love to have one or more of Dvorak, Domi, Chychrun, Rieder, Perlini, DeAngelo, Keller.

They also have the 7th overall pick. If they want Stepan, a deal can be worked out.

Why we bought out Girardi now when there was no plan in place to trade for a 3rd protected defenseman.

Can make all the arguments you like about cost/benefit of losing a player versus a draft pick but we only have two defensemen worth protecting now (one actually, but staal must be too)

It strikes me as lazy and somewhat incompetent. Yes trading for a third D player wouldn't take all 4 of our players off the board, but perhaps it would have enabled us to protect the best 1-2 of that bunch.

Isles protected Pelech over CdH.

Protect Pelech over De haan? Does the nhl already know vegas deals with other teams? So could vegas have agreed to take an unprotected player from another team to ship for de haan or are we just losing de haan for nothing?

Isles protect 5 D and have a deal in place with Vegas not to take specific F's for a future first

In comment 13503168 JayBinQueens said:

Quote:

Isles protect 5 D and have a deal in place with Vegas not to take specific F's for a future first

If the isles give up a 1st and still lose CdH I'll lose my shit.

Hey Vegas take De Haan instead of strome and nelson? Sorry, ik not the biggest de haan fan but he's more valueable than those 2.

to protect CdH, Nelson, Strome (and Pelech) is steep but the right move IMO. Hopefully it's 2018 pick with some protection.

How does this all work? Do you tell the NHL offices the players they refused to not take in these deals? They could even sign De Haan to an offer sheet now if they wanted to.

why the Rangers-Canes line showed up, but that's the list for the Rangers.

Vegas can start negotiating with Smith today. I would hate to lose him.


Vegas will get a really nice young RHD in Sami Vatanen or Josh Manson

Should be a busy few days for Vegas. Lots of deals to be made.

with MTL. Exposed Plekanec, Hudon, Emelin, Nesterov and Davidson (of the players I'd expect LV to consider)

The one I hope they don't take is Charles Hudon, he was a highly regarded prospect (even though he was a 5th round pick) 50+ pts per year in the AHL past three years and he's still just 22.

Perfect candidate for LV.

I would not expect MTL to have to make a deal to protect any of them.

unprotected.

I'd pick him if I were LV just for the name if he's planning to play, though FL also has Marchessault and Reilly Smith available.

In comment 13503230 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

unprotected. I'd pick him if I were LV just for the name if he's planning to play, though FL also has Marchessault and Reilly Smith available.

Certainly would put butts in seats. I don't know if they can pass on Marchessault given the season he just had, but Jagr would definitely draw fans to games.

Nelson or Strome.

But I have no idea what is going on with side deals.

At this rate, with the amount of rumors regarding teams giving LV picks to stay away from unprotected players, McPhee will have the entire draft to himself.

MTL is willing to trade LV a 2nd round pick to take Plekanec and not Hudon. Sort of makes sense for LV to take plecky since Plekanec is a veteran making good money, but only for one more year.

if this does happen MTL has zero NHL caliber top 2 centers on the roster. Plekanec was really 3rd line C at this point, and Danault IMO is a 3rd/4th liner too. Drouin could be playing center.

future for a new franchise. Jagr would be a stupid get at his age.

.

In comment 13503253 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

.

Right but if the Knights sign Jagr, they wouldn't be able to take Marchessault

In comment 13502988 Anakim said:

Quote:

In comment 13502829 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: Joking aside, I actually don't see a logical fit in that deal. I seriously can't imagine OEL coming back and not much else intrigues me from Arizona that would make the Rangers better. I don't agree. The Coyotes have many young promising players. I would love to have one or more of Dvorak, Domi, Chychrun, Rieder, Perlini, DeAngelo, Keller. They also have the 7th overall pick. If they want Stepan, a deal can be worked out.

I don't think a lot of those guys are appealing for the Rangers in a Stepan deal. I'd be fine with trading for another younger center who has already proven he can put up points at (at least) a second line rate with more upside or a top pair D. I think trading Stepan for a guy who is mostly potential would be a bit asinine given where the Rangers are. The 7th overall pick isn't interesting to me in a deal for Stepan.

In comment 13503258 Anakim said:

Quote:

In comment 13503253 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: . Right but if the Knights sign Jagr, they wouldn't be able to take Marchessault

If they wanted Jagr, why not just wait until January 1st?

I would have traded for him. Easier said than done.

.

In comment 13503262 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

In comment 13503258 Anakim said: Quote: In comment 13503253 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: . Right but if the Knights sign Jagr, they wouldn't be able to take Marchessault If they wanted Jagr, why not just wait until January 1st?

Because other teams would be able to bid for him and bid at a somewhat high price too. Vegas, if they so choose, could sign Jagr in the coming days without any competition, but then they would give up the opportunity to draft Marchessault.

In comment 13503266 Deej said:

Quote:

I would have traded for him. Easier said than done.

We could still

until 7/1 for Jagr, but anyone could sign him then.

Some interesting names by team.

After looking through the names though, holy shit I think LV is going to be historically bad this year no matter what they do.

what happens to the other 7 players they pick that can't go on their roster.

they have to take 30, NHL roster is 23 I believe.

what happens to the other 7?

I think Vegas can put together a pretty good defense and there's some solid goalies available.

In comment 13503274 Kyle in NY said:

Quote:

I think Vegas can put together a pretty good defense and there's some solid goalies available.

That's my thinking. As it stands now, their defense will be very good (and young) and their Goalies should be set as well. MAF, Raanta, Mrazek...

Craig Morgan‏Verified account @craigsmorgan
Have heard the NHL salary cap ceiling will be set at $75M; floor at $55.4M.

In comment 13503271 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

what happens to the other 7 players they pick that can't go on their roster. they have to take 30, NHL roster is 23 I believe. what happens to the other 7?

Trades, AHL, or take UFA

though except maybe Vatanen.

Even Dumba, while still young, I don't think of as a top pair defenseman. I think I might prefer Scandella to Dumba. Again though, not a top pair D.

and their forwards will be mostly 3rd liners with upside, maybe guys like Hagelin, Neal, Plekanec, Grabner.

And MAF is a legit starting goalie, but Raanta is a 28-year old career backup, no one knows how he'd fare as a starting goalie and Mrazek is coming off a brutal season.

If their team is built based on the players in the expansion draft I see a brutal season.

As for UFA's generally I'd say they'll follow the money, but I don't see a veteran UFA interested in signing in LV while they rebuild unless maybe it's a veteran who has a cup and is content to maximize $$ at this point.

the Vegas Golden Knights, best team I could come up, if their goal was just to build the best team for this season, which they've made clear is not the case.

It's not a great group, they'd struggle to score. But I don't think it's historically bad. It's certainly better than any of the past expansions teams. Plus they'll add a top draft pick, and they could flip Mrazek for something substantial.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13503126 MetsAreBack said:

Quote:

Why we bought out Girardi now when there was no plan in place to trade for a 3rd protected defenseman. Can make all the arguments you like about cost/benefit of losing a player versus a draft pick but we only have two defensemen worth protecting now (one actually, but staal must be too) It strikes me as lazy and somewhat incompetent. Yes trading for a third D player wouldn't take all 4 of our players off the board, but perhaps it would have enabled us to protect the best 1-2 of that bunch.

Recognize that it takes two teams to agree on a trade. It is possible that no one likes what we have to offer at this time. The other teams may want to wait until after the expansion draft and take their chances. We were buying out Girardi anyway. I don't know if there were restrictions on when a buyout can occur.

In comment 13503314 SJGiant said:

Quote:

In comment 13503126 MetsAreBack said: Quote: Why we bought out Girardi now when there was no plan in place to trade for a 3rd protected defenseman. Can make all the arguments you like about cost/benefit of losing a player versus a draft pick but we only have two defensemen worth protecting now (one actually, but staal must be too) It strikes me as lazy and somewhat incompetent. Yes trading for a third D player wouldn't take all 4 of our players off the board, but perhaps it would have enabled us to protect the best 1-2 of that bunch. Recognize that it takes two teams to agree on a trade. It is possible that no one likes what we have to offer at this time. The other teams may want to wait until after the expansion draft and take their chances. We were buying out Girardi anyway. I don't know if there were restrictions on when a buyout can occur.

Looks like buyout period this year s June 15 until June 30

Haan to protect Cizikis

In comment 13503476 Anakim said:

Quote:

Haan to protect Cizikis

And Nelson, Strome, Bailey, etc. Personally I would have swapped CdH for Pelech, but it is possible that Las Vegas would have asked for more in that case. Islanders were never at risk for losing Cizikas because of his contract. If the Islanders had traded Las Vegas a 1st on the condition they select someone like Shane Prince or Nikolai Kulemin, I would have liked it more.

is going to have every pick in the 2018 first and second round.

But then I don't fault him since he knows little about the Isles in the grand scheme of things. I feel that yes, this year's first will be going to VGK. But I think the player going in the ED is either of Hickey, Cizikas or Bailey. I believe CDH will stay part of the team, and we'll see Hamonic traded (likely as part of a Galchenyuk package). I think it's also quite possible Pelech was protected as he may be part of a subsequent move as well and Snow didn't want him plucked in the ED.

Frankly, we can all spitball - or in some Isles fan circles, carry torches and pitchforks (yawn) - but none of us knows what's transpiring behind closed doors. As far as I'm concerned, all I cared about was protecting Pulock, and we did. So I'm good.

and Hamonic switching teams is a legit possibility.

He wouldn't be the first choice, MTL wants a LD to pair with Weber and I think more would (or should) need to come back to MTL, but the names have been floated.

But I mostly unplug for the weekend...

Am I reading the above correctly that MIN left Dumba exposed?

In comment 13503500 bigbluehoya said:

Quote:

But I mostly unplug for the weekend... Am I reading the above correctly that MIN left Dumba exposed?

yes

I think that pretty much proves my point that NHL GMs are inefficient.

That's pretty ridiculous, IMO.

In comment 13503503 bigbluehoya said:

Quote:

I think that pretty much proves my point that NHL GMs are inefficient. That's pretty ridiculous, IMO.

this was speculated for months. If no trade was worked out, they'd be only able to protect one of Dumba or Brodin.

I'd keep Dumba in that choice, but if you're a contender, Dumba still not a good defensive defenseman. Brodin is.

The player in question is 22 years old with 70+ points under his belt and a career +/- over +20.

If I'm LV, I need a lot more than a first rounder to look the other way.

And if I'm the rangers, I'd have called early on Sat with an offer of Fast + Holden + 2nd round pick. Seems way too cheap, but it's a load better than exposing Dumba.

Makes me think there is a deal I place

In comment 13503497 pganut said:

Quote:

But then I don't fault him since he knows little about the Isles in the grand scheme of things. I feel that yes, this year's first will be going to VGK. But I think the player going in the ED is either of Hickey, Cizikas or Bailey. I believe CDH will stay part of the team, and we'll see Hamonic traded (likely as part of a Galchenyuk package). I think it's also quite possible Pelech was protected as he may be part of a subsequent move as well and Snow didn't want him plucked in the ED. Frankly, we can all spitball - or in some Isles fan circles, carry torches and pitchforks (yawn) - but none of us knows what's transpiring behind closed doors. As far as I'm concerned, all I cared about was protecting Pulock, and we did. So I'm good.

From what I've read on Twitter, Snow is sending a first rounder to Vegas to prevent them from taking Cizikis and Bailey. De Haan though is fair game. Hence, the first rounder and De Haan comment.

In comment 13503505 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 13503503 bigbluehoya said: Quote: I think that pretty much proves my point that NHL GMs are inefficient. That's pretty ridiculous, IMO. this was speculated for months. If no trade was worked out, they'd be only able to protect one of Dumba or Brodin. I'd keep Dumba in that choice, but if you're a contender, Dumba still not a good defensive defenseman. Brodin is.

Also, Scandella might be a better fit for Vegas than Dumba. We'll see

back to NYI from Vegas.

In comment 13503516 Metnut said:

Quote:

back to NYI from Vegas.

Could be. We'll see

In comment 13503512 Anakim said:

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From what I've read on Twitter, Snow is sending a first rounder to Vegas to prevent them from taking Cizikis and Bailey. De Haan though is fair game. Hence, the first rounder and De Haan comment.

It's also been mentioned that the first rounder was to protect Nelson, Strome and de Haan. Everything is speculation. So, to my earlier point, no one knows what's being negotiated by the respective GMs.

In comment 13503521 pganut said:

Quote:

In comment 13503512 Anakim said: Quote: From what I've read on Twitter, Snow is sending a first rounder to Vegas to prevent them from taking Cizikis and Bailey. De Haan though is fair game. Hence, the first rounder and De Haan comment. It's also been mentioned that the first rounder was to protect Nelson, Strome and de Haan. Everything is speculation. So, to my earlier point, no one knows what's being negotiated by the respective GMs.

Didn't read that. Just read that the first rounder was used to protect Bailey and Cizikis.

In comment 13503523 Anakim said:

Quote:

In comment 13503521 pganut said: Quote: In comment 13503512 Anakim said: Quote: From what I've read on Twitter, Snow is sending a first rounder to Vegas to prevent them from taking Cizikis and Bailey. De Haan though is fair game. Hence, the first rounder and De Haan comment. It's also been mentioned that the first rounder was to protect Nelson, Strome and de Haan. Everything is speculation. So, to my earlier point, no one knows what's being negotiated by the respective GMs. Didn't read that. Just read that the first rounder was used to protect Bailey and Cizikis.

I'm hoping that it's a first rounder and Grabovksi's contract going the other way. Otherwise it makes no sense to throw in a first rounder to protect a high priced fourth liner in Cizikas and a soon to be UFA in Bailey. In what world are either of those guys more valuable than deHaan?

Has now been amended to say the likely Isles-VGK trade is to protect Strome, Nelson, and/or De Haan and not Cizikas and Bailey as first reported.

maybe I value "star" players too much. I view this team as top 5 pick.

Quote:

Dan Kramer‏ @DanKramerHabs 21m21 minutes ago Maybe (probably?) I overrate them (& of course there will be side-deals), but I feel like this roster could be a playoff team. #VegasDraft

actually looks like after draft (less impact on 2017-2018), trades, and free agency

Quote:

Scott Cullen‏Verified account @tsnscottcullen Sounds like Vegas is dealing ahead of the expansion draft. Have heard there are at least seven teams with side deals.

In comment 13503667 pganut said:

Quote:

Has now been amended to say the likely Isles-VGK trade is to protect Strome, Nelson, and/or De Haan and not Cizikas and Bailey as first reported.

What is the sense you're getting?

I can't read this. Why are they protecting Nelson with a pick? I would be fine with him being taken. Preferred? NO, but it won't set them back. Plenty of options to replace his "sometimes" production.

Strome I get. The kid has tremendous skill and just hasn't hit a comfort level yet.

I think de haan is the most underrated Islander. He has been VERY solid, and because he's not flashy he flies under the radar.

The fascination with this guy never fails to mystify.

In comment 13503707 feelflows said:

Quote:

I think de haan is the most underrated Islander. He has been VERY solid, and because he's not flashy he flies under the radar.

Yeah, I'd like to think Garth has a plan in mind (praying he does?) but if we lose de Haan while protecting Adam Pelech I'll be more at a loss for words than I was during the repeated appearances on the ice from Brian Strait.

In comment 13503723 Mike in Long Beach said:

Quote:

In comment 13503707 feelflows said: Quote: I think de haan is the most underrated Islander. He has been VERY solid, and because he's not flashy he flies under the radar. Yeah, I'd like to think Garth has a plan in mind (praying he does?) but if we lose de Haan while protecting Adam Pelech I'll be more at a loss for words than I was during the repeated appearances on the ice from Brian Strait.

maybe his old friend told him who he's interested in... maybe he told him he wants Bailey? Or CC? Hey.. when he got canned, the Isles hooked him up with a job, afterall!

In comment 13503717 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

The fascination with this guy never fails to mystify.

My guess is that they know he wont be drafted and didnt want to insult him by leaving him unprotected and not using the 3rd D protection slot (though they could have protected Smith bf UFA).

In comment 13503705 feelflows said:

Quote:

What is the sense you're getting? I can't read this. Why are they protecting Nelson with a pick? I would be fine with him being taken. Preferred? NO, but it won't set them back. Plenty of options to replace his "sometimes" production. Strome I get. The kid has tremendous skill and just hasn't hit a comfort level yet.

My sense is (and I have no ties to agents, team personnel, etc, so it's nothing more than feelings and reading tea leaves): Bailey, Hickey or Cizikas selected in ED. Hamonic (potentially plus, maybe a MDC) for Galchenyuk. Another move with multiple pieces (say, Strome, Pelech, another player plus a pick) for Duchene (which I now feel Sakic has overplayed and won't get the return he originally hoped for). Could that player be CDH? Possibly. But I can also see the Isles correctly valuing CDH as you have and keeping him, as I can also see them keeping Strome. He was misused, miscast and had any semblance of confidence destroyed under Simple Jack. I think Dougie likes him and knows it'd be very premature to give up on a talented kid just rediscovering why hockey is fun. If the Duchene move doesn't happen, the rumors are the EDM expected return on Eberle has dropped, so maybe that's the move instead of an overpay for Duchene.

the thread back boys. #soproud

this came from an article by an NHL.com writer interviewing Stars GM and head of scouting, who have the 3rd (and 29th ) pick.

Sounds like an awful draft to have a top pick, I read it's being compared to 2012.

Quote:

Mike Morreale‏ @mikemorrealeNHL 3m3 minutes ago "The top 15-20 picks are intrchngeable; might be a case of the beauty is in the eye of beholdr." Joe McDonnell, DAL

Quote:

"With regard to this draft class, we all look at players differently and all know there's a group of probably 10-12 very good players and I might like something about a certain player that somebody else doesn't quite see," Nill said.

In comment 13503791 Fish said:

Quote:

the thread back boys. #soproud

gratz

In comment 13503795 pjcas18 said:

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I read it's being compared to 2012.

Can we just call that "The Brady Skjei Draft"? Too soon?

That meathead Tom Wilson was a first round pick??

In comment 13503803 Deej said:

Quote:

In comment 13503795 pjcas18 said: Quote: I read it's being compared to 2012. Can we just call that "The Brady Skjei Draft"? Too soon?

Pretty sure Filip Forsberg might have something to say about that. Still can't believe the Caps traded him for a water bottle and a bag of pucks.

that move could be the difference between a Caps cup and what you've seen the past two years in WSH.

Not saying Forsberg is a savior per se, but having his skill on that team changes everything.

Plus I'd still rather have Galchenyuk and Trouba than Skjei.

but he is one of the better players taken that in that first round.

Some Rangers stuff
Link - ( New Window )

"There is no reason to expect the Rangers to fill the right-side hole by signing 28-year-old impending free agent Kevin Shattenkirk to the six- or seven-year deal at between $6.25-6.75 million he likely can command on the market.

Were Shattenkirk willing to take a higher AAV for a dramatically reduced term of two or three years, then quite possibly, but why on earth would the Capitals rental leave millions on the table to play Broadway?"

Quote:

Chris Johnston‏Verified account @reporterchris George McPhee has told NHL teams that today is the last day they'll complete a trade to protect their players.

Quote:

Vegas Golden Knights‏Verified account @GoldenKnights "We're going to pick our team tomorrow." --George McPhee

In comment 13503920 Anakim said:

Quote:

"There is no reason to expect the Rangers to fill the right-side hole by signing 28-year-old impending free agent Kevin Shattenkirk to the six- or seven-year deal at between $6.25-6.75 million he likely can command on the market. Were Shattenkirk willing to take a higher AAV for a dramatically reduced term of two or three years, then quite possibly, but why on earth would the Capitals rental leave millions on the table to play Broadway?"

In comment 13503939 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

Quote: Chris Johnston‏Verified account @reporterchris George McPhee has told NHL teams that today is the last day they'll complete a trade to protect their players. Quote: Vegas Golden Knights‏Verified account @GoldenKnights "We're going to pick our team tomorrow." --George McPhee

Makes sense. Or at least, that they'd switch to the mode where they start putting their draft into place. Because it will take several days to try to sell off the pieces they can acquire. And part of that is figuring out who to draft -- e.g. taking offers for Raanta, Grabner, and Lindberg, and taking the one with the best return. That to me is the hardest part.

In comment 13503939 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

Quote: Chris Johnston‏Verified account @reporterchris George McPhee has told NHL teams that today is the last day they'll complete a trade to protect their players. Quote: Vegas Golden Knights‏Verified account @GoldenKnights "We're going to pick our team tomorrow." --George McPhee

pjcas, does this mean the trades will be announced today (if they happen) or that they'll still have to wait to be formally announced after the draft?

How many guys have taken discounts to play here?

I also don't see the Rangers wanting Shattenkirk and only offering a three year deal. If they think Shattenkirk is the guy they need to turn this into a quality D unit, who cares about what he's like in 2022?

will be announced, that's a question I have too.

the trades would be announced during the NHL Awards Ceremony

it sounded as if we might not know the full scope of the XD until Wed, unless leaks are sprung.

In comment 13503961 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

How many guys have taken discounts to play here? I also don't see the Rangers wanting Shattenkirk and only offering a three year deal. If they think Shattenkirk is the guy they need to turn this into a quality D unit, who cares about what he's like in 2022?

Agree 100% players don't care if it's NY, BOS, etc if the money is the same, but the allure of playing with people you know (and like) isn't overstated IMO and no one in the NHL off the top of my head can come close to the group of American players the Rangers can.

Miller, Kreider, Stepan, Hayes, Vecey
McDonagh, Skjei, Clendo, etc.

It's why Vecey signed with the Rangers IMO over places where he'd have been given a much better chance at a top 6 spot from day 1.

I don't have any sense for if Shattenkirk is close with any of those guys (certainly not like Vecey was) to say if playing with them is a difference maker for him. But I'd doubt he takes less money for that privilege.

In comment 13503961 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

How many guys have taken discounts to play here? I also don't see the Rangers wanting Shattenkirk and only offering a three year deal. If they think Shattenkirk is the guy they need to turn this into a quality D unit, who cares about what he's like in 2022?

Someone has got to care about 2022. That's an argument to always give mega-term contracts.

Deej, I'm usually a long-term/asset management guy - but I think the Rangers (and Giants, tbh) are in positions that they have to think about maximizing the window with their star players (Henrik/Eli).

In comment 13503975 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

Deej, I'm usually a long-term/asset management guy - but I think the Rangers (and Giants, tbh) are in positions that they have to think about maximizing the window with their star players (Henrik/Eli).

I'll buy into an overcommit on Shatty if I see another big move first. Im not convinced that this roster + Shatty is all that great. It's so hard to tell, but I think we need Shatty AND a superstar forward. Not someone that you get with Stepan+. Someone much better than that. A top 10 center type.

Im not sure what to make of this team. Im not going all in on probably 2 good but not great years of Hank.

In comment 13503963 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

will be announced, that's a question I have too.

I just spoke with a friend in the Canadian hockey media to try and get a better feel for this; he mentioned that none of the trades will be announced until Wednesday. He thinks McPhee�s plan is to have his list tomorrow, but it�s not like it has to be set in stone if he somehow gets a better offer.

I disagree a bit, I think a top four of Skjei, McDonagh, Shattenkirk, Smith is good enough to win it all. I wouldn't say a favorite, but a bit behind PIT/WAS.

In comment 13503989 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

I disagree a bit, I think a top four of Skjei, McDonagh, Shattenkirk, Smith is good enough to win it all. I wouldn't say a favorite, but a bit behind PIT/WAS.

that top 4 D is better than PIT top 4 D.

In comment 13503961 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

How many guys have taken discounts to play here? I also don't see the Rangers wanting Shattenkirk and only offering a three year deal. If they think Shattenkirk is the guy they need to turn this into a quality D unit, who cares about what he's like in 2022?

Shanahan is the first one that comes to mind

In comment 13503995 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 13503989 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: I disagree a bit, I think a top four of Skjei, McDonagh, Shattenkirk, Smith is good enough to win it all. I wouldn't say a favorite, but a bit behind PIT/WAS. that top 4 D is better than PIT top 4 D.

Yeah but Pitt has Crosby, Malkin, and friends. And Murray is obviously fantastic (and could be better than Hank over the next 2-3 seasons).

Is he going to be a better player than McDonagh? Seems unimaginable but then I look at his production last year and his toolbox and think it's almost likely. How soon does that happen? And hat is McDonagh -- his play is a little all over the place, in part because Girardi has been such an anchor; but just in part.

In comment 13504021 Deej said:

Quote:

In comment 13503995 pjcas18 said: Quote: In comment 13503989 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: I disagree a bit, I think a top four of Skjei, McDonagh, Shattenkirk, Smith is good enough to win it all. I wouldn't say a favorite, but a bit behind PIT/WAS. that top 4 D is better than PIT top 4 D. Yeah but Pitt has Crosby, Malkin, and friends. And Murray is obviously fantastic (and could be better than Hank over the next 2-3 seasons).

I see, you mean overall better, I was just saying top 4 D.

Penguins are favorites to repeat, I heard their name with Galchenyuk too.

given how clear he's made it that he loves the area and would like to play again near home. If the Rangers can offer 5.5 to 6 million AAV, I think that could be good enough.

Of course, I suppose NJ could really throw a huge offer to him and he'd technically be back in the area. But who wants to play for them?

In comment 13504030 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 13504021 Deej said: Quote: In comment 13503995 pjcas18 said: Quote: In comment 13503989 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: I disagree a bit, I think a top four of Skjei, McDonagh, Shattenkirk, Smith is good enough to win it all. I wouldn't say a favorite, but a bit behind PIT/WAS. that top 4 D is better than PIT top 4 D. Yeah but Pitt has Crosby, Malkin, and friends. And Murray is obviously fantastic (and could be better than Hank over the next 2-3 seasons). I see, you mean overall better, I was just saying top 4 D. Penguins are favorites to repeat, I heard their name with Galchenyuk too.

My point is that 1-19 this roster doesnt strike me as a Shattenkirk away from contention. I could be wrong on that. But my gut tells me we need an elite forward too. I think it is unlikely we trade for that player, but I feel a lot better about giving Shatty 6 or more years if it is the 2nd move with the 1st being to get a star center.

I get the counter -- 4 lines of NYR forwards rolled the NHL until the D just collapsed. 1 of 2 terrible Ds is gone, and Smith and Shatty for a full season is a big +. Im going on gut here. My bias is a belief that in the playoffs when everyone Ds up and hits that the guys getting by on hustle and smarts (e.g. a Stepan type) become less effective and the guys with god given skill like a Brassard stay effective.

related to this comment, I misunderstood this to be related to defense.

So I said the NYR top 4 on D in the scenario provided was better than PIT top 4 D.

Quote:

I disagree a bit, I think a top four of Skjei, McDonagh, Shattenkirk, Smith is good enough to win it all. I wouldn't say a favorite, but a bit behind PIT/WAS.

I think the Rangers with that top four is good enough to win it all. That was my point. It's not up there with Nashville or anything.

I don't think the gap between these teams is that large. Ottawa was a goal away from a SCF trip and the Rangers (IMV) could have easily beaten the Senators just with better deployment.

In comment 13504131 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

I think the Rangers with that top four is good enough to win it all. That was my point. It's not up there with Nashville or anything. I don't think the gap between these teams is that large. Ottawa was a goal away from a SCF trip and the Rangers (IMV) could have easily beaten the Senators just with better deployment.

I concede that there is a lot of merit to this POV. It's just a gut thing. Im also worried that all the blown leads in the playoffs is a demoralizing blow that this group cant overcome. No way to prove it until they lace them up. But that was such a brutal way to go out.

14f, 9d, 3g, 4 positional wild cards doesnt strike me as that limiting. 20 or more players already under contract I think is the biggie -- a lot of the enticing players are RFAs. I just saw a projection that has Vegas taking and flipping Grabner. No explanation, but I notice that Vegas had 10 RFAs from other teams. Lindberg is an RFA so he would burn one of their "not under contract" picks.

Picks have to be 60-100% of the upper limit of the salary cap, and Vegas cant draft and immediately buyout players. Drafted players cant be bought out by Vegas for until next summer. They can trade for a guy and buy him out, but that wont count towards the 60%.

Im kind of rooting for them to take Fast. I like Fast but I worry we're about to pay him $2+ million to be a 4th liner. After that I'd next rather lose Grabner, if only because I think Raanta can be immediately traded for a late #1 or a #2 plus.

Deej, did you think any of the recent NYR teams was good enough to win the Cup? If so, what would differentiate the theoretical team vs. those that you thought could win it all?

In comment 13504203 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

Deej, did you think any of the recent NYR teams was good enough to win the Cup? If so, what would differentiate the theoretical team vs. those that you thought could win it all?

I thought at the time that the 2013/14 and 2014/15 teams were good enough. I thought Hank was better then. I thought the team defense were better though declining (but I get that what we're talking about is an overhauled defense). In retrospect Im not sure they forwards were good enough, and they've gotten better.

Maybe the changes on defense change everything. The better recent Rangers team had an offensive scheme of breakout passes that made sense. The forwards are more talented now but the goals feel a little flukier.

2014-15 Rangers were #3 in GF, #3 in GA. Last year were #4 and #14 respectively. And our bit of a possession problem (fine because of style I think) because a massive possession problem (not fine because we were constantly buried).

I'm counting on Henrik bouncing back a bit with a reformed defense.

AV and luck would be my biggest concerns with that line-up.

Of course, Henrik could just turn into an average goaltender, which would put a hole in those plans.

Chris Nichols‏ @NicholsOnHockey
Dreger: #Isles are "going to do something big in the next week here. And by big, I mean they're going to add an offensive piece." Top-six F

I really think they need to make a big jump or it is 50-50 JT walks. So even if a trade for a top 6 F isnt justified precisely on the merits, it could be worth it if that is what keeps Tavares from leaving next summer (or at the deadline as a rental).

In comment 13504224 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

I'm counting on Henrik bouncing back a bit with a reformed defense. AV and luck would be my biggest concerns with that line-up. Of course, Henrik could just turn into an average goaltender, which would put a hole in those plans.

Bouncing back yes. Being the best goalie again? Unlikely. Which is a difference. The two years I mentioned, I felt like we could legitimately say "well we've got the best goalie so that's a huge edge"

If it were not fit Ranger Fans an Icelander thread would have 8 posts.

In comment 13504242 Carl in CT said:

Quote:

If it were not fit Ranger Fans an Icelander thread would have 8 posts.

Don't you have some false windmills to chase? I remember vividly the thread last year that I saved where you accused me of being racist and since you're a black man, I somehow offended you. Sorry, but I don't have time for idiocy. Your opinion means literally nothing. Enjoy your season, but don't include me in your thought process.

In comment 13504251 pganut said:

Quote:

In comment 13504242 Carl in CT said: Quote: If it were not fit Ranger Fans an Icelander thread would have 8 posts. Don't you have some false windmills to chase? I remember vividly the thread last year that I saved where you accused me of being racist and since you're a black man, I somehow offended you. Sorry, but I don't have time for idiocy. Your opinion means literally nothing. Enjoy your season, but don't include me in your thought process.

It is traditional to tilt at windmills. One need not chase them as they are immobile, being buildings an whatnot.

In any event, you'd rather he go after imagined enemies (as the idiom suggests) rather than our geographic rival's fans? Seems like a weird demand.

But I owe you no explanations. He knows what he did was wrong, and I do not suffer fools, period.

Let's keep it to hockey; no need to burn mental bandwidth on stupidity.

In comment 13504226 pganut said:

Quote:

Quote: Dreger: #Isles are "going to do something big in the next week here. And by big, I mean they're going to add an offensive piece." Top-six F.

Am I the only one who really doesn't want Eberle?

If they're going to make a big move I want someone who at least tries to play some D

Staple/TSN reporting the trade between the Isles and VGK is Kulemin. Love the guy, but that'll clear over $4M of cap space, which jives with the need for more financial leverage to land a top-6 forward. There might also be another piece going to LV from the Isles (could be pick, player or prospect) and it's "possible" it's Grabovski. I guess he'd be a cap mule for VGK ($5M cap hit), but if he regains playing clearance, should make Kulie happy to have his buddy there. A potential $9M+ off the books for the Isles is excellent.

Same Newsday article also refers to Tavares being willing to wait on signing an extension (translation: sky isn't falling if the deal isn't done on July 1) and JT feels confident in the direction the team is heading.

In comment 13504305 JayBinQueens said:

Quote:

In comment 13504226 pganut said: Quote: Quote: Dreger: #Isles are "going to do something big in the next week here. And by big, I mean they're going to add an offensive piece." Top-six F. Am I the only one who really doesn't want Eberle? If they're going to make a big move I want someone who at least tries to play some D

Eberle has been actively available for what seems like 3-4 years. I'd be wary too.

In comment 13504307 pganut said:

Quote:

Same Newsday article also refers to Tavares being willing to wait on signing an extension (translation: sky isn't falling if the deal isn't done on July 1) and JT feels confident in the direction the team is heading.

Isnt the translation that he isnt willing to commit? Im not looking to be a dick Rangers fan, but that all seems like good guy spin. If he was confident and comfortable he'd resign.

In comment 13504311 Deej said:

Quote:

In comment 13504305 JayBinQueens said: Quote: In comment 13504226 pganut said: Quote: Quote: Dreger: #Isles are "going to do something big in the next week here. And by big, I mean they're going to add an offensive piece." Top-six F. Am I the only one who really doesn't want Eberle? If they're going to make a big move I want someone who at least tries to play some D Eberle has been actively available for what seems like 3-4 years. I'd be wary too.

Yup - his name's always thrown out there. I'm really hoping it's not him.

I'd imagine Vegas would want more for taking Kulemin & Grabovski but that would be huge if true.



I think I'm most curious to see what teams ask Vegas to select certain players from them (like the Rangers saying to Vegas, take DeHaan and we'll trade you X for him)

Quote:

My point is that 1-19 this roster doesnt strike me as a Shattenkirk away from contention. I could be wrong on that. But my gut tells me we need an elite forward too. I think it is unlikely we trade for that player, but I feel a lot better about giving Shatty 6 or more years if it is the 2nd move with the 1st being to get a star center. I get the counter -- 4 lines of NYR forwards rolled the NHL until the D just collapsed. 1 of 2 terrible Ds is gone, and Smith and Shatty for a full season is a big +. Im going on gut here. My bias is a belief that in the playoffs when everyone Ds up and hits that the guys getting by on hustle and smarts (e.g. a Stepan type) become less effective and the guys with god given skill like a Brassard stay effective.

I think Deej's 1st sentence of the first quoted para and 2nd sentence of the second quoted para (except I'm not convinced that Brassard is a good exemplar) are about where I stand.

The inability to put Ottawa away when we had leads in Games 2-3 (?) didn't seem to turn on defensive failings, though we know that is (hopefully was) a team weakness but the inability to finish. How many times have we lamented that the Rangers transform average keepers into All Stars?

Those "4 lines of NYR forwards roll[ing] the NHL" (we're really referring only to October and November, aren't we?) shriveled and died in SCP. Our erstwhile horses Miller, Stepan, Kreider, Hayes (even Zucc) became all but invisible, replaced on an intermittent basis by Lindberg, Fast, Zib, and that wasn't enough, so the point about defense cranking down hard in SCP has merit.

It turned out that the d, with a somewhat resuscitated Girardi, even with the mediocre and fading Stahl, were no more the deciding factor in the ouster than an impotent offense, never mind the near-invisible PP.

Lastly, does leaving Lindberg and Fast exposed tell us anything about Vigneault and Gorton?

In comment 13504316 JayBinQueens said:

Quote:

I'd imagine Vegas would want more for taking Kulemin & Grabovski but that would be huge if true.

Well the get for LVK is that the Isles are shipping the #15 pick too.

On your last point, I don't think so. I think it just confirms what we all knew, which is that they have a lot of depth and strength at forward.

In comment 13504313 Deej said:

Quote:

Isnt the translation that he isnt willing to commit? Im not looking to be a dick Rangers fan, but that all seems like good guy spin. If he was confident and comfortable he'd resign.

Well, he can't sign until 7/1 at the earliest, so that's why you haven't seen it happen. Most all sources that cover the team regularly feel pretty strongly he's resigning. But as I have said in this thread, no one knows what's happening behind the scenes. I know it's enjoyable for you guys to see if our agony is prolonged, but I'd have to think the chances are small he leaves. And like any modern athlete, he doesn't need to announce his intentions and possibly shortchange himself. I am, and have been, comfortable with the notion he does re-up and stays Captain for his Isles career, and he deserves to get paid as an elite star.

Bu it wouldn't be an Isles adventure without drama...Staple just tweeted that he's revising his article and to discount what was reported earlier. Good times, good times.

I'd like to see him sign with the Rangers. Failing that, Im more worried about him signing with a team that is already competitive in the East w/o him. Doesnt he solve a lot of problems in Montreal?

Also some concern he goes to a team like the Oilers and is unstoppable on their 2nd line. How quickly does Matthews mature into a superstar? Soon enough for him and JT to be a slightly lesser Malkin and Crosby?

Until the Islanders get their shit together, they're not my fear.

He walked back saying it was definitively Kulemin and changed it to:

Quote:

The player designated for selection is still unknown, though it likely would be an Islander with a decent-sized cap hit to help the team clear space. Goaltender Jaroslav Halak ($4.5 million), forward Nikolay Kulemin ($4.187 million) and defenseman Thomas Hickey ($2.2 million) are three of the larger salaries among the team�s unprotected players.

You may resume breathing again.

Barely covers the team and he writes a story finally and hes now writing up his 3rd revison. Guy is the worst

Again, nothing fundamentally radical in the newest update. Confirms that the Isles 1st rounder is going to VGK in addition to a designated player on the unprotected list, and now reports it is a "strong possibility" that Grabovski is being traded as well. So that'll mean Grabbo's $5M plus whatever current roster player's salary coming off the books.

Newsday Sports‏Verified account @NewsdaySports
Update: #Isles likely trading Mikhail Grabovski to Vegas along with first-round pick in expansion deal, sources say:

So if the Isles have $4 mill right now to spend and then somehow clear $9 to la vegas, they are at $13 million under cap. Im sure you save money if you trade hamonic/strome and something for galchenyuk and probably break even in a trade for Duch. So if thats the case, do they have enough to get involved with Shattenkirk?

per staple update.

On Isles is a gamechanger. Trade hammer, lose hickey and go 55,2, 6, 50, 44 and shattenkirk. Add Duchene or galenchyuk and cooking with peanut oil.

In comment 13504387 Fish said:

Quote:

On Isles is a gamechanger. Trade hammer, lose hickey and go 55,2, 6, 50, 44 and shattenkirk. Add Duchene or galenchyuk and cooking with peanut oil.

What would you imagine the trades would be for Duchene or Galchenyuk (trying to imagine what your roster would look like)

In comment 13504387 Fish said:

Quote:

On Isles is a gamechanger. Trade hammer, lose hickey and go 55,2, 6, 50, 44 and shattenkirk. Add Duchene or galenchyuk and cooking with peanut oil.

Except Shattenkirk wants to go to the Rangers, not the Islanders (and understandably so).


But even if he just wanted to come home, the Devils can outbid the both of us. They can essentially give Shattenkirk a blank check.

Its Duchene I thinks he becomes L2 center, galenchuk or eberle with JT and Anders.

27,91,14
12, 9, 66
29, 13, 72
??, 53, 15


55, 2
44, 22
50, 6


Something like that. But I'm not good at shit like this. Pganut can clean it up for me in editing room.

Hamonic and Strome+ are main pieces in a trade for either of the C's. If kulemin and grabovski are gone then thats 13 mill to start with. If that deal gets Galchenyuk we could save 2-3 mill more or break even with an extension. Question is, what to do with De Haan? Trade him to open up a spot to make a run at Smith or Shattenkirk? Give him a raise and sign an Oshie and not get 1 of the D?

I dont wanna get too excited because I wont believe Garth does anything positive until I see it.

I'm not overwhelmed by Shattenkirk. I think Pulock can produce reasonably well early, and become a Shattenkirk plus (better defender) as he continues his growth. Shattenkirk also vanished on a Presidents Cup team that should have performed better when it counted. I'm not real interested in spending the 6-6.5M/yr (there won't be a hometown discount), so I'm happy to let the Rangers again chase the shiny. Unless it's a short term deal, it will likely be a regrettable contract later.

Rumor says that Kovalchuk has decided to move back to the U.S. He is hoping for NY but is willing to go elsewhere. The Devils will hopefully get an early 2018 draft pick for him.

I see Ledecky trying to sell 15% of islanders and no takers so far. What's the point of this coming out or is it fake?

In comment 13504510 Fish said:

Quote:

I see Ledecky trying to sell 15% of islanders and no takers so far. What's the point of this coming out or is it fake?

It is Wang selling his remaining 15% not Ledecky

In comment 13504513 Mike in NY said:

Quote:

In comment 13504510 Fish said: Quote: I see Ledecky trying to sell 15% of islanders and no takers so far. What's the point of this coming out or is it fake? It is Wang selling his remaining 15% not Ledecky

awww... we will miss you Donger!!

Thanks for..ummm.. Garth Snow?

How did that boardroom style organization work out for you!?

In comment 13504553 feelflows said:

Quote:

In comment 13504513 Mike in NY said: Quote: In comment 13504510 Fish said: Quote: I see Ledecky trying to sell 15% of islanders and no takers so far. What's the point of this coming out or is it fake? It is Wang selling his remaining 15% not Ledecky awww... we will miss you Donger!! Thanks for..ummm.. Garth Snow? How did that boardroom style organization work out for you!?

And let's not forget the forward thinking hockey mind suggesting a sumo wrestler would make a good goalie by simply parking him in the net.

Wang is such a piece of trash.

I'm kind of a get-off-my-lawn-er about uniforms.

I like simple designs and consistency. Canadiens whites probably the best uniform in sports, but I like all original 6 hockey unis. Especially the Maple Leafs who I hate and the Rangers (just kind of patriotic) who I'm mostly indifferent about.

Not the biggest thing to get worked up about, and I'm not, just think this will be terrible.

Quote:

John Shannon‏Verified account @JSportsnet 43s43 seconds ago Sweater. Jerseys. Uniforms. Call them what you want. NHL and adidas unveil the new ones today!

In comment 13504553 feelflows said:

Quote:

In comment 13504513 Mike in NY said: Quote: In comment 13504510 Fish said: Quote: I see Ledecky trying to sell 15% of islanders and no takers so far. What's the point of this coming out or is it fake? It is Wang selling his remaining 15% not Ledecky awww... we will miss you Donger!! Thanks for..ummm.. Garth Snow? How did that boardroom style organization work out for you!?

Or those contracts to Yashin and DiPietro or all those machinations to get to cap floor while paying less

In comment 13504571 Mike in NY said:

Quote:

In comment 13504553 feelflows said: Quote: In comment 13504513 Mike in NY said: Quote: In comment 13504510 Fish said: Quote: I see Ledecky trying to sell 15% of islanders and no takers so far. What's the point of this coming out or is it fake? It is Wang selling his remaining 15% not Ledecky awww... we will miss you Donger!! Thanks for..ummm.. Garth Snow? How did that boardroom style organization work out for you!? Or those contracts to Yashin and DiPietro or all those machinations to get to cap floor while paying less

I'm not going to lie.. I fully supported the Yashin and Peca trades. It got me excited..got me to believe that the new ownership was "all in".

NOBODY understood the term of the DiPietro contract. I mean.. if they would've offered him 5 years, I'd be into it. Idiots.

He had good intentions.. he was just a moron. Better suited for cheating the corporate world.

the 15% is for funding of a new arena.

so there's that.

In comment 13503989 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

I disagree a bit, I think a top four of Skjei, McDonagh, Shattenkirk, Smith is good enough to win it all. I wouldn't say a favorite, but a bit behind PIT/WAS.

But Rangers don't have an all star skater (aside from McD) let alone the 3-4 Pit has.

"Hey sharks. My name is John Ledecky and this is my partner Scott, and we're seeking $75 million dollars for a 15% stake in our company. As you know, sharks are the most powerful creature in the sea. But there's one thing out there that can stop a shark in its path... an Islander."

In comment 13504131 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

I think the Rangers with that top four is good enough to win it all. That was my point. It's not up there with Nashville or anything. I don't think the gap between these teams is that large. Ottawa was a goal away from a SCF trip and the Rangers (IMV) could have easily beaten the Senators just with better deployment.

Sens were lucky.
They were nearly down 2-0 to Boston, the Rangers blew two games against Ottawa.
If not for Anderson they aren't close.

Now saying Kulemin isnt the player being traded so I guess we can stop dreaming about 2 big pickups unless its Halak or we trade bothr de haan and hamonic

In comment 13504627 KWhite2250 said:

Quote:

Now saying Kulemin isnt the player being traded so I guess we can stop dreaming about 2 big pickups unless its Halak or we trade bothr de haan and hamonic

If Hamonic and CdH went out to Montreal for Galchenyuk, and Grabbo went to Vegas as part of the expansion draft, Isles would have more than enough cap room to sign Shatty and extend Tavares.

Isles D would be a mix of youngsters and vets and Shatty would help turn the power play around. With Shatty, Tavares, Ho-Sang, Pulock, etc., it'd have an opportunity to be lethal IMO.

In comment 13504637 Metnut said:

Quote:

Isles D would be a mix of youngsters and vets and Shatty would help turn the power play around. With Shatty, Tavares, Ho-Sang, Pulock, etc., it'd have an opportunity to be lethal IMO.

Park Lee in front of the net on that PP1 and I'd be happy

In comment 13504637 Metnut said:

Quote:

In comment 13504627 KWhite2250 said: Quote: Now saying Kulemin isnt the player being traded so I guess we can stop dreaming about 2 big pickups unless its Halak or we trade bothr de haan and hamonic If Hamonic and CdH went out to Montreal for Galchenyuk, and Grabbo went to Vegas as part of the expansion draft, Isles would have more than enough cap room to sign Shatty and extend Tavares. Isles D would be a mix of youngsters and vets and Shatty would help turn the power play around. With Shatty, Tavares, Ho-Sang, Pulock, etc., it'd have an opportunity to be lethal IMO.

the D already has a mix of vets and youngsters.

I don't like the idea of losing Hamonic AND de haan.

As if those sad fucks will ever be any good.

In comment 13504826 Davisian said:

Quote:

As if those sad fucks will ever be any good.

I'm just waiting for a sliver of Rangers news so we can take this thread back...

we are hoping one day our team can be "good enough for the playoffs"..

I'm excited to have a day when I can say, as an Islanders fan, "yah, but MY team makes the playoffs every year!!"

so impressive to reach that peak.

While your fan base is very small, you guys are passionate. I'll give you that.


Plus, the Fishsticks have had our number for the last few years

In comment 13504826 Davisian said:

Quote:

As if those sad fucks will ever be any good.

To be fair, they missed the playoffs by 1 point last year after making the final 8 the year before. They had the same amount of points as Nashville, who made the Final. Also, their PPG pace under Doug Weight was close to the top of the league (I think WSH was still better).

I think the upcoming 5 year outlook for NYI (assuming Tavares stays) is pretty exciting.

Quote:

Renaud Lavoie‏ @renlavoietva He confirmed that some of the picks that are going to be announced are going to be traded the next day.

"He" is McPhee

living in St. Louis, it's hard to follow the Rangers day to day...my question is this - what is Nick Holden doing on the protected list? isn't he JAG?

In comment 13505254 Mike in St. Louis said:

Quote:

living in St. Louis, it's hard to follow the Rangers day to day...my question is this - what is Nick Holden doing on the protected list? isn't he JAG?

They just Holden on to him.

In comment 13505254 Mike in St. Louis said:

Quote:

living in St. Louis, it's hard to follow the Rangers day to day...my question is this - what is Nick Holden doing on the protected list? isn't he JAG?

There are 3 slots to protect d-men, and no one else to protect with it. If they'd been able to make a trade in time (or sign Smith), they'd have left Holden unprotected, but since they had the slot open, might as well.

I thought it was a choice between more forwards or more dmen...

or 8 skaters total. Which would not have been better. Since they had to protect Staal, 8 skaters total would mean 6 forwards protected and somebody like Hayes would be exposed.

Holden is indeed JAG (unless you're Patrick Roy), but he basically had to be protected



In other news, Zipay said that the Rangers do not have a side-deal with the Knights

Named as the winner of the NHL Foundation Player Award tonight.

Video of his work: here

Well deserved for one of best human beings in the game.

supposedly leaked
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13505577 JayBinQueens said:

Quote:

supposedly leaked Link - ( New Window )

Those hats...not even fit to take a dump in. Glad they left the Isles jersey alone. Some of the others...meh.

In comment 13505515 pganut said:

Quote:

Named as the winner of the NHL Foundation Player Award tonight. Video of his work: here Well deserved for one of best human beings in the game.

Congrats Hammer. Gonna be sad to see him go if the trade rumored goes down. Like you said, great human being!

still have my favorite jersey.

May have agreed to send Theodore to LV in exchange for LV agreeing to select Stoner and not Manson/Vatanen.

Smells a little fishy to me that they'd be more concerned with keeping Vat than Theodore. If it's specifically about unloading Stoner, that's an expensive price to wiggle free from 1 year of a deal.

Hawks in cap trouble and now it's revealed that Hossa has an allergy to his equipment and will likely never play again. I feel like if this is Patrick Kane Chicago finds a way to get him equipment that won't cause an allergic reaction.
Link - ( New Window )