As a coach , I subscribe to the One Octave Theory. Simply stated the most that you can do is bring a player's performance up one octave or level. So you can make a poor player an average player, an average player a good player and so forth.
At best Flowers is going to be very average at his position . I am going to give Solari the benefit of the doubt here and not make him contributory to what was an awful performance for most of the season by Flowers. He played better the previous season on a bad ankle against a tougher schedule .
Look, I'm glad he is in shape . I want their offensive linemen looking like athletes instead of slobs. But I can't see this guy ever being good . Hope I'm wrong . Hope he makes All Pro.
As a coach , I subscribe to the One Octave Theory. Simply stated the most that you can do is bring a player's performance up one octave or level. So you can make a poor player an average player, an average player a good player and so forth.
Fair point, but one with many exceptions. Corey Webster and Amani Toomer come to mind as recent Giants who were widely written off by Year 3, then blossomed. Jason Sehorn was a non-factor for two years. Rich Seubert went from the end of the bench to the best lineman on the team in a little over a year, before his leg exploded. Even Flowers's predecessor, Will Beatty, made big strides in Years 3 and 4.
As a coach , I subscribe to the One Octave Theory. Simply stated the most that you can do is bring a player's performance up one octave or level. So you can make a poor player an average player, an average player a good player and so forth.
Fair point, but one with many exceptions. Corey Webster and Amani Toomer come to mind as recent Giants who were widely written off by Year 3, then blossomed. Jason Sehorn was a non-factor for two years. Rich Seubert went from the end of the bench to the best lineman on the team in a little over a year, before his leg exploded. Even Flowers's predecessor, Will Beatty, made big strides in Years 3 and 4.
As a coach , I subscribe to the One Octave Theory. Simply stated the most that you can do is bring a player's performance up one octave or level. So you can make a poor player an average player, an average player a good player and so forth.
At best Flowers is going to be very average at his position . I am going to give Solari the benefit of the doubt here and not make him contributory to what was an awful performance for most of the season by Flowers. He played better the previous season on a bad ankle against a tougher schedule .
Look, I'm glad he is in shape . I want their offensive linemen looking like athletes instead of slobs. But I can't see this guy ever being good . Hope I'm wrong . Hope he makes All Pro.
Coach - Flowers was playing pretty well towards the end of the season last year - and showed real improvement from the beginning of the season to the end of the season. What can you point to that makes you say that he had an awful performance for most of the season - or that he played better the previous season on a bad ankle?
As a coach , I subscribe to the One Octave Theory. Simply stated the most that you can do is bring a player's performance up one octave or level. So you can make a poor player an average player, an average player a good player and so forth.
At best Flowers is going to be very average at his position . I am going to give Solari the benefit of the doubt here and not make him contributory to what was an awful performance for most of the season by Flowers. He played better the previous season on a bad ankle against a tougher schedule .
Look, I'm glad he is in shape . I want their offensive linemen looking like athletes instead of slobs. But I can't see this guy ever being good . Hope I'm wrong . Hope he makes All Pro.
Coach - Flowers was playing pretty well towards the end of the season last year - and showed real improvement from the beginning of the season to the end of the season. What can you point to that makes you say that he had an awful performance for most of the season - or that he played better the previous season on a bad ankle?
I've said this before - if you buy what PFF is selling, then Flowers played better in his second year than he did in his first. The improvement he showed wasn't monumental, but it was improvement nonetheless. My hope is that he continues to improve.
I've said this before - if you buy what PFF is selling, then Flowers played better in his second year than he did in his first. The improvement he showed wasn't monumental, but it was improvement nonetheless. My hope is that he continues to improve.
Klaatu -- I'm not basing my comments on PFF -- I'm basing them on what Eric said in his game reviews and overall assessments based on his film review -- I think Eric has a pretty good eye and trust his observations about players
As a coach , I subscribe to the One Octave Theory. Simply stated the most that you can do is bring a player's performance up one octave or level. So you can make a poor player an average player, an average player a good player and so forth.
At best Flowers is going to be very average at his position . I am going to give Solari the benefit of the doubt here and not make him contributory to what was an awful performance for most of the season by Flowers. He played better the previous season on a bad ankle against a tougher schedule .
Look, I'm glad he is in shape . I want their offensive linemen looking like athletes instead of slobs. But I can't see this guy ever being good . Hope I'm wrong . Hope he makes All Pro.
I say this with all due respect Retro, but IMO that's a horrible theory to subscribe to. How can you honestly tell your players to be the best they can be if they're led to believe that they can only marginally improve? What kind of goal is that?
'Hey, if you work hard enough son you can go from being a bad player to just a pretty bad player! Maybe even just average if you REALLY dig in and go to OTAs and shit!'. LOL!
I've said this before - if you buy what PFF is selling, then Flowers played better in his second year than he did in his first. The improvement he showed wasn't monumental, but it was improvement nonetheless. My hope is that he continues to improve.
Klaatu -- I'm not basing my comments on PFF -- I'm basing them on what Eric said in his game reviews and overall assessments based on his film review -- I think Eric has a pretty good eye and trust his observations about players
I know you weren't. I was just throwing it out there to bolster your argument.
ability one octave, but Flowers ability is 1st round ability. His technique has been poor, but this is a big strong guy that has good foot speed. He just needs to clean up balance and hand placement.
That list speaks to the unpredictability of player development.
Jumbo was pressed into service early in his rookie year when an ankle injury effectively ended Nelson's comeback; Elliott had one game so bad that he might never have seen the field again if he hadn't been a second-round pick on a team where linemen were dropping like flies. He was back in the lineup two months later, and already looked much better. By Year Two, he was among the top run-blocking tackles in the League. He continued to struggle at times with speed, but that's just who he was.
Barber showed great promise as a rookie. He missed a month with a knee injury, and wasn't physically suited to the role of primary ball-carrier (Fassel had limited options as Hampton's wheels were coming off); but Tiki flashed when healthy in his intended role. He then struggled terribly in 1998, before blossoming as a third-down back in 1999. His emergence five years later as the second coming of Marshall Faulk makes hist career one of the strangest ever.
Ward was never in danger of being a bust, because expectations were basically zero after he was poached from the Jets at no cost. As long as Barber was on the team, Ward was pure depth. He also had some setbacks with injuries. As soon as he got to play, he played well.
Ballard doesn't really belong in this discussion. Like Ward, he entered the League with dim prospects. Unlike Ward, he thrived as a rookie - though he needed a year on the practice squad to earn his way onto the team. Unfortunately, his improbable 2011 season was interrupted by an MCL sprain and ended with a career-wrecking ACL tear.
watch the games in December other than Dallas. Flowers definitely played better. Doesn't take a football savant to see it either. I am far from an expert on OL play but there weren't many breakdowns on the left side of the OL in games against Detroit, Washington or GreenBay. I don't remember the philly game.
I have hundreds of albums and thousands of songs in my library from Buddy Holly, Howling Wolf, Bob Marley, The Who to Wilco, Death Cab and Arcade Fire, to name a very few... but no Slade; not my thing. No offense to any of their fans.
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Bahahahaaha....New Edition!
Oh great...Slade is back. Whatcha got for us now?
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Lol. That new edition meme is perfect!
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LMAO!
That he figured out how to post an image on BBI.
Which part is scaring you exactly?
We were supposedly signing Reggie Nelson... until we didn't.
At best Flowers is going to be very average at his position . I am going to give Solari the benefit of the doubt here and not make him contributory to what was an awful performance for most of the season by Flowers. He played better the previous season on a bad ankle against a tougher schedule .
Look, I'm glad he is in shape . I want their offensive linemen looking like athletes instead of slobs. But I can't see this guy ever being good . Hope I'm wrong . Hope he makes All Pro.
Not expecting a jump like that from Flowers, but.. it has happened here as recently as last season.
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As a coach , I subscribe to the One Octave Theory. Simply stated the most that you can do is bring a player's performance up one octave or level. So you can make a poor player an average player, an average player a good player and so forth.
Fair point, but one with many exceptions. Corey Webster and Amani Toomer come to mind as recent Giants who were widely written off by Year 3, then blossomed. Jason Sehorn was a non-factor for two years. Rich Seubert went from the end of the bench to the best lineman on the team in a little over a year, before his leg exploded. Even Flowers's predecessor, Will Beatty, made big strides in Years 3 and 4.
Jumbo Elliot
Tiki Barber
Derrick Ward
Jake Ballard
At best Flowers is going to be very average at his position . I am going to give Solari the benefit of the doubt here and not make him contributory to what was an awful performance for most of the season by Flowers. He played better the previous season on a bad ankle against a tougher schedule .
Look, I'm glad he is in shape . I want their offensive linemen looking like athletes instead of slobs. But I can't see this guy ever being good . Hope I'm wrong . Hope he makes All Pro.
Coach - Flowers was playing pretty well towards the end of the season last year - and showed real improvement from the beginning of the season to the end of the season. What can you point to that makes you say that he had an awful performance for most of the season - or that he played better the previous season on a bad ankle?
Quote:
As a coach , I subscribe to the One Octave Theory. Simply stated the most that you can do is bring a player's performance up one octave or level. So you can make a poor player an average player, an average player a good player and so forth.
At best Flowers is going to be very average at his position . I am going to give Solari the benefit of the doubt here and not make him contributory to what was an awful performance for most of the season by Flowers. He played better the previous season on a bad ankle against a tougher schedule .
Look, I'm glad he is in shape . I want their offensive linemen looking like athletes instead of slobs. But I can't see this guy ever being good . Hope I'm wrong . Hope he makes All Pro.
Coach - Flowers was playing pretty well towards the end of the season last year - and showed real improvement from the beginning of the season to the end of the season. What can you point to that makes you say that he had an awful performance for most of the season - or that he played better the previous season on a bad ankle?
I've said this before - if you buy what PFF is selling, then Flowers played better in his second year than he did in his first. The improvement he showed wasn't monumental, but it was improvement nonetheless. My hope is that he continues to improve.
I've said this before - if you buy what PFF is selling, then Flowers played better in his second year than he did in his first. The improvement he showed wasn't monumental, but it was improvement nonetheless. My hope is that he continues to improve.
Klaatu -- I'm not basing my comments on PFF -- I'm basing them on what Eric said in his game reviews and overall assessments based on his film review -- I think Eric has a pretty good eye and trust his observations about players
At best Flowers is going to be very average at his position . I am going to give Solari the benefit of the doubt here and not make him contributory to what was an awful performance for most of the season by Flowers. He played better the previous season on a bad ankle against a tougher schedule .
Look, I'm glad he is in shape . I want their offensive linemen looking like athletes instead of slobs. But I can't see this guy ever being good . Hope I'm wrong . Hope he makes All Pro.
I say this with all due respect Retro, but IMO that's a horrible theory to subscribe to. How can you honestly tell your players to be the best they can be if they're led to believe that they can only marginally improve? What kind of goal is that?
'Hey, if you work hard enough son you can go from being a bad player to just a pretty bad player! Maybe even just average if you REALLY dig in and go to OTAs and shit!'. LOL!
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I've said this before - if you buy what PFF is selling, then Flowers played better in his second year than he did in his first. The improvement he showed wasn't monumental, but it was improvement nonetheless. My hope is that he continues to improve.
Klaatu -- I'm not basing my comments on PFF -- I'm basing them on what Eric said in his game reviews and overall assessments based on his film review -- I think Eric has a pretty good eye and trust his observations about players
I know you weren't. I was just throwing it out there to bolster your argument.
As for league average, we'd take that this year.
Or maybe its because that is what's considered to be a good game by Flowers...
Or maybe its because that is what's considered to be a good game by Flowers...
I didn't say "good game". Just go back & watch everybody else on offense. Geez, can't even throw a guy a bone.
I don't recall him shutting down the left side is all...
Tiki Barber
Derrick Ward
Jake Ballard
Jumbo was pressed into service early in his rookie year when an ankle injury effectively ended Nelson's comeback; Elliott had one game so bad that he might never have seen the field again if he hadn't been a second-round pick on a team where linemen were dropping like flies. He was back in the lineup two months later, and already looked much better. By Year Two, he was among the top run-blocking tackles in the League. He continued to struggle at times with speed, but that's just who he was.
Barber showed great promise as a rookie. He missed a month with a knee injury, and wasn't physically suited to the role of primary ball-carrier (Fassel had limited options as Hampton's wheels were coming off); but Tiki flashed when healthy in his intended role. He then struggled terribly in 1998, before blossoming as a third-down back in 1999. His emergence five years later as the second coming of Marshall Faulk makes hist career one of the strangest ever.
Ward was never in danger of being a bust, because expectations were basically zero after he was poached from the Jets at no cost. As long as Barber was on the team, Ward was pure depth. He also had some setbacks with injuries. As soon as he got to play, he played well.
Ballard doesn't really belong in this discussion. Like Ward, he entered the League with dim prospects. Unlike Ward, he thrived as a rookie - though he needed a year on the practice squad to earn his way onto the team. Unfortunately, his improbable 2011 season was interrupted by an MCL sprain and ended with a career-wrecking ACL tear.
Flowers is still very young. I'm convinced he's going to have a great career.
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Is 100 times scarier than anything else including exorcist.
Which part is scaring you exactly?
Possums fucking terrible.
There's a long list of players who took 2-3 years to become really good players.
We don't need him to be Anthony Munoz. I'll take above average.
He definitely played better down the stretch.
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about that hair band River posted. Scary shit.
Yeah - what band is that?
I have hundreds of albums and thousands of songs in my library from Buddy Holly, Howling Wolf, Bob Marley, The Who to Wilco, Death Cab and Arcade Fire, to name a very few... but no Slade; not my thing. No offense to any of their fans.