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Francesa and Kim Jones discussing OBJ earlier...

DennyInDenville : 6/13/2017 10:37 pm
Anyone hear it???

Mike was SCREAMING at Kim

Kim was defending OBJ, and stood her ground hard. Told Mike he's the only only who still cares etc..

Mike kept bringing up the breakfast OBJ skipped etc etc

It was INSANELY AWKWARD. Kim WOULD NOT BOW TO THE POPE AT ALL!!! IT WAS INSANE!!!!
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RE: Didn't Francesa have beefs  
santacruzom : 6/14/2017 3:07 pm : link
In comment 13499501 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
with Stray & Shockey? Once he has an opinion of you, it's pretty hard for Big Mike to admit he was wrong.


So... he's a sports fan?
RE: RE: RE: My beef with Odell is simple  
djm : 6/14/2017 7:48 pm : link
In comment 13499925 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13499921 Devon said:


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In comment 13499851 Joey in VA said:


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He says one thing and does another. He's been off since February and has appeared very publicly at the NCAA title game, the NBA Finals, tours with Drake and all over instagram with various celebrities. Then he goes on to say he's going to do everything he can to win and win over the fans and on and on and on. So he has two chances to show that he means it and he bails on both to do his own thing. That's absolutely his right, the Duke camp was informal, the OTAs are all by rights not much help to anyone but rookies or first year players. Does he need the work? Probably not. Can he and Eli draw up a play in the dirt and win a game in one play? Yep and they have.

He's a leader of this team because of his immense talent but he projects this image of loving celebrity and shunning teammates. Does it have an actual on the field impact? No, it mostly won't matter once the season commences but you have a locker room full of people looking to you to lead this team to the playoffs and make a run. Being with them should be job #1. It was TEN days of OTAs and what 3-4 at Duke? So in 4.5 months or about 135 days, he couldn't spare 15? 15 of 135 days is too much to ask? It would have ruined his training regimen? By doing all of this he makes it a story, creates a distraction and generates headlines that he wishes to silence. So is he self sabotaging his image with the idea that he'll show everyone this year? Maybe. I personally don't think he's bright enough to do that but he is probably narcissistic enough to and he wouldn't be the first athlete to seek the spotlight and churn up the press only to ask them to quiet down.

I don't think he's a bad teammate on the field or in the locker room, I don't think missing those 15 days is a crime and I applaud his desire to improve and grow. From his little petri dish though, he doesn't SEE what his actions are doing and they have a negative impact. Every question every teammate and coach has to answer about where Waldo may be chips away at the team and eventually it will take a toll if he drops a pass or gets flagged for something stupid and he will. To tolerate his on the field histrionics he has to produce, and he will but to grow with his team he has show them that he's not above them and he hasn't.



He doesn't want to silence a single headline and nothing about his image has been sabotaged.

He'll talk about wanting it, but the reason he'll put something out on social media to get the buzz cookin then turn right around and deny it or have Cris Carter taking a shot at his WR coach publicly or wear cleats telling the media off is because it all generates major attention. Any attention, few exceptions, is good for stardom in this current era. This entire OTA thing has been great for his brand and exposure with how much coverage it has gotten, far better than actually showing up would have. You may not think he's smart enough to think that way for whatever reason, but the people he's got around him definitely are.

As for his teammates, oh well. They'll survive. They know how stars play these games now. Most aren't as in their feelings about it as some fans get.

Exactly, it' all been great for his celebrity which he values more than the game. How that's good for this team's title chances is beyond me.


Odell values his own celebrity more than the game?

Really.

Bullshit.
I say bullshit  
djm : 6/14/2017 7:54 pm : link
Because it's just that. Bullshit. All of it. We don't know shit about Beckham other than what we see on the field and what social media vomits out to us. How can anyone sit here and say that a guy who has lit the NFL on fire with his play doesn't care about the game? Why? Because he's went to Miami a week before the game or that he got caught? You guys realize that many of these nfl stars live a pretty wild lifestyle but not all of them are watched and scrutinized as closely as Beckham is?

LT cared sooooo much about the game unless he was drunk and cracked out 14 hours before kickoff. Gimme a break already. You think you know a player. You don't.

Whatever I'm done with this stupid childish debate. Hopefully Beckham lasts a long time and stays healthy. That's all that matters.
RE: And all of that aside..  
micky : 6/14/2017 7:55 pm : link
In comment 13499568 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
still doesn't mean he isn't a great player.

Terrell Owens was a great player. Micheal Irvin was a great player. Jeremy Shockey was a great player.

Beckham is a side-show, mostly fueled by the Media, and he is a great WR.

To say Mike F. isn't completely off base by saying he's explosive and not great is just flat out wrong.


Shocked was good..not great imo
RE: RE: And all of that aside..  
micky : 6/14/2017 7:56 pm : link
In comment 13500322 micky said:
Quote:
In comment 13499568 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


still doesn't mean he isn't a great player.

Terrell Owens was a great player. Micheal Irvin was a great player. Jeremy Shockey was a great player.

Beckham is a side-show, mostly fueled by the Media, and he is a great WR.

To say Mike F. isn't completely off base by saying he's explosive and not great is just flat out wrong.



Shocked was good..not great imo


Shockey
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: My beef with Odell is simple  
arcarsenal : 6/14/2017 9:23 pm : link
In comment 13500029 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13499962 Devon said:


Quote:


In comment 13499925 Joey in VA said:


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In comment 13499921 Devon said:


Quote:


In comment 13499851 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


He says one thing and does another. He's been off since February and has appeared very publicly at the NCAA title game, the NBA Finals, tours with Drake and all over instagram with various celebrities. Then he goes on to say he's going to do everything he can to win and win over the fans and on and on and on. So he has two chances to show that he means it and he bails on both to do his own thing. That's absolutely his right, the Duke camp was informal, the OTAs are all by rights not much help to anyone but rookies or first year players. Does he need the work? Probably not. Can he and Eli draw up a play in the dirt and win a game in one play? Yep and they have.

He's a leader of this team because of his immense talent but he projects this image of loving celebrity and shunning teammates. Does it have an actual on the field impact? No, it mostly won't matter once the season commences but you have a locker room full of people looking to you to lead this team to the playoffs and make a run. Being with them should be job #1. It was TEN days of OTAs and what 3-4 at Duke? So in 4.5 months or about 135 days, he couldn't spare 15? 15 of 135 days is too much to ask? It would have ruined his training regimen? By doing all of this he makes it a story, creates a distraction and generates headlines that he wishes to silence. So is he self sabotaging his image with the idea that he'll show everyone this year? Maybe. I personally don't think he's bright enough to do that but he is probably narcissistic enough to and he wouldn't be the first athlete to seek the spotlight and churn up the press only to ask them to quiet down.

I don't think he's a bad teammate on the field or in the locker room, I don't think missing those 15 days is a crime and I applaud his desire to improve and grow. From his little petri dish though, he doesn't SEE what his actions are doing and they have a negative impact. Every question every teammate and coach has to answer about where Waldo may be chips away at the team and eventually it will take a toll if he drops a pass or gets flagged for something stupid and he will. To tolerate his on the field histrionics he has to produce, and he will but to grow with his team he has show them that he's not above them and he hasn't.



He doesn't want to silence a single headline and nothing about his image has been sabotaged.

He'll talk about wanting it, but the reason he'll put something out on social media to get the buzz cookin then turn right around and deny it or have Cris Carter taking a shot at his WR coach publicly or wear cleats telling the media off is because it all generates major attention. Any attention, few exceptions, is good for stardom in this current era. This entire OTA thing has been great for his brand and exposure with how much coverage it has gotten, far better than actually showing up would have. You may not think he's smart enough to think that way for whatever reason, but the people he's got around him definitely are.

As for his teammates, oh well. They'll survive. They know how stars play these games now. Most aren't as in their feelings about it as some fans get.

Exactly, it' all been great for his celebrity which he values more than the game. How that's good for this team's title chances is beyond me.



Beckham being a great player is good for this team's title chances.

None of his attention whoring subtracts from how he's the best player, between the lines, the Giants have. It hasn't gotten him out of shape or hurt production in any way.

Dude, I'm not worried about Odell, he'll perform. He's a lights out football player, I never at any time dispute that. A team with title hopes has to be focused, this lessens that focus. How about we agree it's not optimal from an approach standpoint as it relates to his team? I get the branding thing, I want these guys to rake in the bucks because they do put it all out there on Sundays but a little more team and a little less ME wouldn't kill the guy. That's all I'm saying. I'm not terribly bent out of shape by all of it, I just prefer it went differently, why is that such a difficult thing for people to grasp? By people I'm not pointing at you btw, I say one thing and the usual cast of clowns invokes my name on other threads to be cute which is fine, they need an outlet for their middling intelligence and absence of humor.

I guess I"m looking at from a perfect scenario standpoint, and perhaps I shouldn't. In a perfect world he flies back for OTAs, goes to Duke and shows that his team matters. That's all my point really is. Every little bit helps and in a league where games can turn on a play and every season has moments that can possibly define it, I want as much on my side as possible. Is that such an outrageous position to take?


It's actually not outrageous at all, and I think at the core, every Giants fan would pick that if they have a choice.

I just never thought calling people "fucking losers" for not thinking it's a huge deal made any sense, personally.
Shockey..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/14/2017 10:16 pm : link
was:
- 2 time Super Bowl winner
- 4 time Pro Bowler
- First team All-Pro
- Winner of first ever Diet Pepsi Rookie of the Year Award

I think he was more than just good.
.  
Go Terps : 6/14/2017 10:34 pm : link
The offense also improved once Shockey was removed from the picture. Shockey was a good player. Maybe even great. But saying that doesn't tell the whole story.

I don't know if or how his story applies to Beckham. I think better cautionary tales can be found with our own stable of injured receiver in recent years, and with Dez Bryant who put up three years every bit as good as Beckham's. He got paid, got hurt, and now Dallas is vastly overpaying a player that hasn't been very productive in two seasons.

And despite what the sycophant Instagram followers in the Beckham throwbacks say, it's not out of line to consider the possibility that Beckham might either be a lousy teammate now or could become one during the life of what is sure to be an enormous contract.
Shockey  
crick n NC : 6/14/2017 10:39 pm : link
Got off to a great start, but he fizzled. I do not consider him amongst the greats, even at his position. He was a very good player
.  
arcarsenal : 6/14/2017 11:04 pm : link
Don't forget.. Shockey is a SB champ and scored a TD in the SB as well.

So, for all of the people who try that whole "divas never win" BS.. Shockey is another check mark in the "not true" box.
Actually the giants offense didn't improve when shockey got hurt  
djm : 6/14/2017 11:07 pm : link
They did score 30 plus in the two games that followed his injury but they didn't exactly set the world on fire in that postseason, offensively. Why are we even talking about shockey? One has nothing to do with the other but just for shits I'd like To remind you shockey haters that he helped the giants win 11 games in 2005. Helped them sneak into the playoffs in 2006 and he helped them get to a winning record by December of 2007. In other words, shockey was a big part of those teams that enabled coughlin to stick around here. Wrap that around your brain for a minute and try not to have a seizure. The giants did well without him so maybe he wasn't worth the trouble but you don't know that. I think he was a very good player who took a beating and ran out of steam a little too soon. I think his on the field antics that many cried about were overstated.

We don't make the playoffs without Beckham last year. We need him. He's a ridiculously good NFL WR. He's a little weird on and off the field but he's worth coddling. He's worth the slight annoyances and really, he's done very little wrong. Some Of you are drama queens. You continue to feed the beast.
djm...  
arcarsenal : 6/14/2017 11:46 pm : link
The Giants winning the SB without Shockey/Tiki led a lot of people to draw the conclusion that those two were losing players that were dragging the team down.

I really don't believe either would have precluded NYG from winning in 2007 if they had been healthy or still on the roster.

Shockey was certainly a bit immature and Barber's ego was always a bit inflated, but Barber was also the best RB in Giants history and was still at his peak at that point in time so I really doubt the team won because he (or Shockey) were gone.

If anything, the offense probably wouldn't have had to lean on the defense as much to get through those playoffs.

All hypotheticals, though. I obviously can't prove any of that. I just don't believe Beckham is a "losing player" which some here have referred to him as.

When people talk about "addition by subtraction," I certainly don't believe this is a case where that would apply.
Addition by subtraction is a tough thing to hang on a player  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/15/2017 12:58 pm : link
Not forcing the ball to Larry D so he can fumble it away is certainly addition by subtraction.

Shockey made plays. It's not like he didn't give you anything. I suppose one could argue that having a player who was a better route runner may have been a better fit, and maybe not having him around to make Eli's life a little more difficult helped, but who really knows?
RE: Kim Jones covers the Giants for the NFL Network.  
Craigg619 : 6/15/2017 1:09 pm : link
In comment 13499697 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Anyone who doesn't care what she "thinks or says" is a fool. Anyone who would elevate Francessa over her when it comes to the Giants is twice a fool.


Agreed 1000%.

I think she's amazing. Been on of the best since she started. Hell I'd be beyond elated if she took over Francesca's spot next year. She's a smart cookie.
If Shockey doesn't get hurt we don't win that Super Bowl  
Go Terps : 6/15/2017 1:13 pm : link
I believe that 100%.
RE: If Shockey doesn't get hurt we don't win that Super Bowl  
djm : 6/15/2017 7:16 pm : link
In comment 13501005 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I believe that 100%.


100% ??

Ok. I am not crazy enough to say one way or the other that shockey's injury definitely was or wasn't a factor. I'm not going to change a thing about January 2008 if I had the chance to do it again that's for sure. Everything clicked just right. That still doesn't mean that shockey wasn't a winning player. He didn't hurt the saints that's for sure. But you knew that.

Still means nothing when discussing Beckham.
RE: If Shockey doesn't get hurt we don't win that Super Bowl  
arcarsenal : 6/15/2017 7:19 pm : link
In comment 13501005 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I believe that 100%.


C'mon, there's no possible way to know that.

And he won a Super Bowl 2 years later.. so clearly he wasn't a guy you couldn't win with.

You may have hated Plax and Shockey but the bottom line is that both guys have rings on their fingers and both guys were on the receiving end of big TD passes in Super Bowls.

The whole "losing player" thing is largely a myth and BS fan narrative that gets made up when people don't like player personalities.
You could just as easily say  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/15/2017 7:22 pm : link
if Shockey is healthy maybe that game isn't a tightrope walk down to the final seconds.
Shockey and Plax  
Go Terps : 6/15/2017 7:49 pm : link
There's obviously no way to prove that we would have been better or worse off with Shockey instead of Boss.

What we DO know is that Shockey freelanced on his routes, or just plain fucked them up. He was also a pain in the ass on the sideline and in the huddle, and gave Eli shit when he didn't get him the ball. This has been corroborated by multiple sources over the years.

Much of the same (and worse) can be said about Plax...some of it extending off the field and involving guns (the incident shortly after he was signed, linked below) and obviously when he shot himself and ruined what could have been a Super Bowl season. Let's not forget Steve Smith's quote about Plax barely showing up to practice, dozens of team fines, suspensions, as well as the incident the night before the Super Bowl where Plax supposedly "slipped in the shower" and injured himself.

Shockey and Plax are two of the most talented players to ever play for the Giants. But if you think that that shit I listed above (none of which is made up or my own conjecture) doesn't hurt a team then we have a completely different interpretation of what comprises a team and what it means to be a good teammate.

In the case of Shockey, Kevin Boss may have had a fraction of the talent but he could be trusted to do his job...which made him a better football player for the Giants in 2007. The Giants then traded away Shockey even though Boss was a fraction of the physical player.

Look in any group as large as a football team you're going to get some assholes. But there's a point where the guy goes beyond being an asshole and becomes a problem. Both Shockey and Plax passed that point.

djm...the reason these two guys get brought up (and it wasn't by me) in relation to Beckham is that the feeling is Beckham could also pass that point. I don't think he's past that point now...I just think he's an asshole...but it doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to see him cross the line from "asshole" to "problem". And anyone that doesn't see that potential is being obtuse, because as I have said about BBI before: if Beckham were on the Philadelphia Eagles EVERY SINGLE FUCKING POSTER would call him a gaping asshole. Every single one.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Shockey and Plax  
Tesla : 6/15/2017 7:56 pm : link
In comment 13501369 Go Terps said:
Quote:

And anyone that doesn't see that potential is being obtuse, because as I have said about BBI before: if Beckham were on the Philadelphia Eagles EVERY SINGLE FUCKING POSTER would call him a gaping asshole. Every single one. Link - ( New Window )


Without malice, you are coming across as a really weird dude when it comes to OBJ. The passion with which you hate this kid is not healthy....and to be honest pretty weird.
arc  
Go Terps : 6/15/2017 8:09 pm : link
And if this were true:

Quote:
The whole "losing player" thing is largely a myth and BS fan narrative that gets made up when people don't like player personalities.


...explain Terrell Owens and Randy Moss. Both of those guys were all-time talented (and productive) wide receivers. Then why did each guy play for five different teams? Why is it that when NFL Films shot "A Football Life" for Terrell Owens they could not get any of Jeff Garcia, Tony Romo, or Donovan McNabb to participate?

Why did Randy Moss get traded at the age of 27 after a season where he caught 13 TDs? Why was he traded by Bill Belichick a year after putting up 83/1264/13?

Better players than Odell Beckham have screwed up teams and worn out welcomes by being lousy teammates. It's not a made up fan narrative.
OBJ has not been known to routinely take plays off like Moss  
David in LA : 6/15/2017 8:14 pm : link
He's not even in the same universe as TO when it comes to being a distraction or divisive force in the locker room. The only similarities those guys share is being incredibly talented.
RE: OBJ has not been known to routinely take plays off like Moss  
Go Terps : 6/15/2017 8:17 pm : link
In comment 13501375 David in LA said:
Quote:
He's not even in the same universe as TO when it comes to being a distraction or divisive force in the locker room. The only similarities those guys share is being incredibly talented.


He hasn't been yet, but are you honestly telling me you don't see any potential of it happening?
TO is a pretty bad example, lots of eagles would have preferred to  
GMenLTS : 6/15/2017 8:19 pm : link
keep him over mcnabb at the time.

And Moss was a fingertip away from capping off the perfect season in 2007.

Moss's work ethic issues are certainly a large part of why he went all over the place but TO's work ethic was never in doubt, he was just an asshole and regularly undermined his QBs.

Odell has never once given any indication that he will undermine Eli. He's had his young, immature moments to be sure. Some could even argue he's an asshole and I won't argue against it (I happen to think until further notice, it's young immaturity, that could turn into total asshole but we're not there yet)

Lastly, who cares if we would think he's an asshole if he were on the eagles? He's a giant. That alternate reality is completely irrelevant.
LTS  
Go Terps : 6/15/2017 8:23 pm : link
I think it's completely relevant, because fans tend to have a clearer view of a player when they aren't wearing his jersey.
RE: RE: OBJ has not been known to routinely take plays off like Moss  
David in LA : 6/15/2017 8:23 pm : link
In comment 13501376 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13501375 David in LA said:


Quote:


He's not even in the same universe as TO when it comes to being a distraction or divisive force in the locker room. The only similarities those guys share is being incredibly talented.



He hasn't been yet, but are you honestly telling me you don't see any potential of it happening?


The guy works too hard to be taking plays off like Moss used to. The guy's motor is running all the time on the field. Don't really see him going the TO route either. His infractions have been small potatoes aside from the Norman thing, and that stemmed from the refs letting things escalate the way they did.
RE: RE: OBJ has not been known to routinely take plays off like Moss  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/15/2017 8:24 pm : link
In comment 13501376 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13501375 David in LA said:


Quote:


He's not even in the same universe as TO when it comes to being a distraction or divisive force in the locker room. The only similarities those guys share is being incredibly talented.



He hasn't been yet, but are you honestly telling me you don't see any potential of it happening?


lmao

now we're going to start worrying about pre-crime. This is healthy.
The whole Eagles thing is stupid too  
David in LA : 6/15/2017 8:24 pm : link
I think Desean is a punk, but at the same time, when he used to routinely burn us, I wish we had a weapon like him. Now we have someone that is MUCH better.
Ten Ton, OBJ could snap and murder dozens of people  
David in LA : 6/15/2017 8:26 pm : link
we should trade him, even if there's a 1% chance of that ever happening.
.  
arcarsenal : 6/15/2017 8:32 pm : link
Owens and Moss are awful examples.

Owens was part of the best Eagles team in both the Reid-era and recent memory, largely by his own doing. Owens scored 14 times in 14 games that year.

He was likely going to be SB MVP if their defense could have held against NE. He was fantastic in a game where he returned from a broken leg way ahead of schedule.

Moss was a helmet catch away from a perfect season.

If things beyond each players control happened differently, they'd both have Super Bowl rings and would have been major parts of those accomplishments.

Moss also scored in that SB. Just like Burress. Just like Shockey. Guys you keep referring to as losing players seem to show up in February quite a bit over the course of time. I think it's a bullshit narrative and don't buy it one bit.
.  
arcarsenal : 6/15/2017 8:34 pm : link
You can point to the fact that neither player stuck with specific teams their entire careers. But the bottom line is that both players were on largely successful teams. Mostly because of them specifically.

So, the idea that players like them hold teams back? Yeah, I think it's 100% bullshit.
Owens played in the super bowl against medical advice  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/15/2017 8:40 pm : link
http://www.espn.com/nfl/playoffs04/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=1985765


JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- Medical science might need to do a case study on Terrell Owens. He might have made the greatest recovery from an injury in 39 years of the Super Bowl.

Just seven weeks ago, Owens broke his leg and tore a critical ligament in his right ankle. He needed surgery and his surgeon wouldn't clear him to play against the Patriots. The medical world thought he was crazy. Owens fooled them all by playing 62 of 72 offensive snaps and catching nine passes for 122 yards.

It might have been the most courageous performance in Super Bowl history. To no one's surprise, T.O. was the first off the field and the first to the podium in the postgame interview room. Even though the Eagles were the losers, 24-21, in Super Bowl XXXIX, Owens was a big winner.

He did what was considered impossible.


Cornerbacks Randall Gay and Asante Samuel played man-to-man defense about 95 percent of the snaps.

That meant either Gay, an undrafted rookie, or Samuel, a second-year cornerback, would be man-to-man against T.O. Quarterback Donovan McNabb wasted no time by throwing his first completion to Owens for seven yards. Throughout the crowd, you could hear the mutterings, "He's back."

"What that man did was incredible," Samuel said. "To come back the way he did from a broken ankle and play at the level he played. Well, what can you say? Some may [have] thought Owens was selfish, but he didn't want to miss the stage of the Super Bowl for himself and his teammates. Sure, he wasn't the same Owens. He didn't have great explosiveness in his run. There were times that he appeared to be limping."

But McNabb kept sending Owens downfield and kept hitting him with passes. He was making a statement.

"Before we came down here, I knew I was going to play all along," Owens said. "The media made it a situation to where they thought I was grandstanding. But like I told a lot of people. If [that was] Brett Favre, they would have called him a warrior."


http://archive.boston.com/sports/articles/2005/02/03/specialists_say_owens_risking_career/

Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver Terrell Owens could suffer a career-ending injury should he play in Sunday's Super Bowl, and the team is ethically obligated to prevent him from taking such a risk, according to local medical specialists.

Boston area orthopedic experts said Owens's injury, a fractured right fibula and torn lower leg ligament, could easily be aggravated by a hard hit, an uneven landing, or a sudden pivot -- all in a day's work for an NFL receiver.

Moreover, despite Owens's claims of fitness, his physical skills are likely impaired by his injury, according to the specialists. They said it would be unwise -- and unethical -- for the Eagles to ignore the advice of Owens's surgeon, Dr. Mark Myerson. The president of the American Orthopaedic Foot and Ankle Society, Myerson has said Owens should not play.




"Can't win with that guy!"
.  
Go Terps : 6/15/2017 9:57 pm : link
And still he left Philadelphia a pariah. Hmm...
What does this mean??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/16/2017 8:15 am : link
Quote:
And anyone that doesn't see that potential is being obtuse, because as I have said about BBI before: if Beckham were on the Philadelphia Eagles EVERY SINGLE FUCKING POSTER would call him a gaping asshole. Every single one.


I fully expect other fans to call Beckham a gaping asshole. We can even call him that.

But again - having the perception of being a gaping asshole doesn't mean he is a detriment to the team or can't win. Ray Lewis seemed to be a gaping asshole. Brett Favre seemed like a gaping asshole. The entire squads of the Cowboys and Raiders in the 70's were roided up, drugged out gaping assholes. Assholes still win rings.

We get that you don't like his antics. But to say they spill over into production or the ability to win is pure speculation, just like making a comment that there is no chance the giants would've won that SB with Shockey.
So, is there a problem  
Big Blue '56 : 6/16/2017 8:23 am : link
here?
RE: .  
arcarsenal : 6/16/2017 10:14 am : link
In comment 13501435 Go Terps said:
Quote:
And still he left Philadelphia a pariah. Hmm...


It's irrelevant. You don't win Championships by having the highest concentration of nice guys or good samaritans.

The majority of the teams Owens played for in his career were very good and he was a big reason why. He was on an Eagles team that won 13 games, he was on a Cowboys team that won 13 games, he was on a 49er team that won 13 games (plus, three 12-win teams on top of that)

People who say things like "Beckham will never win anything in his career" are being ridiculous. There is a long list of guys in this league who had questionable personalities and were on the winning end of a fuck ton of football games.
I don't think Go Terps is dumb.  
Keith : 6/16/2017 10:28 am : link
I think he's in too deep. I think Go Terps thinks he's smarter than everyone else and needs to try and prove it. He went against the grain and now he's in too deep. This Philly crap is grasping for straws.

Does every fan outside of NY think OBJ is a gaping ahole? Doesn't seem that way to me. Seems like he's a pretty well liked guy outside of NY. So why if he was in philly would we all of a sudden hate him? Because he's on a rival maybe?

It's a ridiculous stance to say we need to get rid of a generational talent because of the outside chance that he can get hurt or become a problem child. This guy is looking for reasons to climb out of this hole he's in and he's coming across like a moron. It's really not even worth discussing further at this point. OBJ isn't going anywhere. OBJ is, one of the best, if not the best WR in football. He is one of the only guys who has the ability to take any 5 yard curl to the house. He's electric. He's well liked(are all 9B followers Giants fans??). He's a quality human being off the field that connects with people.

Is he perfect? No. He's definitely immature and needs to learn how to channel is passion. He will. He will also sign a massive contract and hopefully we can all rub it in this guys face every time he dominates, which will probably be 3 out of every 4 games. I look forward to that.
RE: RE: OBJ has not been known to routinely take plays off like Moss  
ron mexico : 6/16/2017 10:45 am : link
In comment 13501376 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13501375 David in LA said:


Quote:


He's not even in the same universe as TO when it comes to being a distraction or divisive force in the locker room. The only similarities those guys share is being incredibly talented.



He hasn't been yet, but are you honestly telling me you don't see any potential of it happening?


I see zero chance of that hapopening
RE: .  
djm : 6/16/2017 11:10 am : link
In comment 13501435 Go Terps said:
Quote:
And still he left Philadelphia a pariah. Hmm...


and yet the best eagles team over the last 55 years featured Owens at WR. hmmmm....

Which carries more weight in the grand scheme of things? Perception or reality?
RE: Shockey and Plax  
djm : 6/16/2017 11:17 am : link
In comment 13501369 Go Terps said:
Quote:
There's obviously no way to prove that we would have been better or worse off with Shockey instead of Boss.

What we DO know is that Shockey freelanced on his routes, or just plain fucked them up. He was also a pain in the ass on the sideline and in the huddle, and gave Eli shit when he didn't get him the ball. This has been corroborated by multiple sources over the years.

Much of the same (and worse) can be said about Plax...some of it extending off the field and involving guns (the incident shortly after he was signed, linked below) and obviously when he shot himself and ruined what could have been a Super Bowl season. Let's not forget Steve Smith's quote about Plax barely showing up to practice, dozens of team fines, suspensions, as well as the incident the night before the Super Bowl where Plax supposedly "slipped in the shower" and injured himself.

Shockey and Plax are two of the most talented players to ever play for the Giants. But if you think that that shit I listed above (none of which is made up or my own conjecture) doesn't hurt a team then we have a completely different interpretation of what comprises a team and what it means to be a good teammate.

In the case of Shockey, Kevin Boss may have had a fraction of the talent but he could be trusted to do his job...which made him a better football player for the Giants in 2007. The Giants then traded away Shockey even though Boss was a fraction of the physical player.

Look in any group as large as a football team you're going to get some assholes. But there's a point where the guy goes beyond being an asshole and becomes a problem. Both Shockey and Plax passed that point.

djm...the reason these two guys get brought up (and it wasn't by me) in relation to Beckham is that the feeling is Beckham could also pass that point. I don't think he's past that point now...I just think he's an asshole...but it doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to see him cross the line from "asshole" to "problem". And anyone that doesn't see that potential is being obtuse, because as I have said about BBI before: if Beckham were on the Philadelphia Eagles EVERY SINGLE FUCKING POSTER would call him a gaping asshole. Every single one. Link - ( New Window )


This has holes all over it too. Jerry Rice was a pain in the ass in the huddle. Numerous players have corroborated this.

Do we really know for certain whether Shockey was a poor route runner? Nope. We have only heard or seen that once in a while he'd run the wrong route. Wow. That never happens.

Shockey and Plax "hurt" the team yet the team did nothing but win when both players were in NY. Maybe they could have gotten more out of their respective careers, I can't dispute that, but they were good players here who helped the team win. They did more good than bad. They were worth any trouble they may have caused and once their talents dropped below the water mark they were jettisoned.

This is fucking stupid.

You're not proving anything.


RE: I don't think Go Terps is dumb.  
arcarsenal : 6/16/2017 11:17 am : link
In comment 13501760 Keith said:
Quote:
I think he's in too deep. I think Go Terps thinks he's smarter than everyone else and needs to try and prove it. He went against the grain and now he's in too deep. This Philly crap is grasping for straws.

Does every fan outside of NY think OBJ is a gaping ahole? Doesn't seem that way to me. Seems like he's a pretty well liked guy outside of NY. So why if he was in philly would we all of a sudden hate him? Because he's on a rival maybe?

It's a ridiculous stance to say we need to get rid of a generational talent because of the outside chance that he can get hurt or become a problem child. This guy is looking for reasons to climb out of this hole he's in and he's coming across like a moron. It's really not even worth discussing further at this point. OBJ isn't going anywhere. OBJ is, one of the best, if not the best WR in football. He is one of the only guys who has the ability to take any 5 yard curl to the house. He's electric. He's well liked(are all 9B followers Giants fans??). He's a quality human being off the field that connects with people.

Is he perfect? No. He's definitely immature and needs to learn how to channel is passion. He will. He will also sign a massive contract and hopefully we can all rub it in this guys face every time he dominates, which will probably be 3 out of every 4 games. I look forward to that.


I def don't think Terps is a dumb guy. He and I have disagreed and argued endlessly in recent years. Especially about Beckham. But I kinda respect his stubbornness. We've gone back and forth on this stuff like 10000 times but it's never personal and always stays within the realm of football. I rarely agree with his takes, but they do interest me.

Much rather this than deal with a fucking putz like radar.
TO divided locker rooms.  
Keith : 6/16/2017 11:17 am : link
OBJ does not, if anything, it's the opposite. There is no comparison.
.  
arcarsenal : 6/16/2017 11:18 am : link
Joey, on the other hand, will tell me I'm a fucking loser and that I sicken him for taking Beckham's side. He also told me I'll never win a damn thing. :(

I still love him, though.
I don't know.  
Keith : 6/16/2017 11:20 am : link
I never respect stubborness because those people will never see the other side of hte discussion. Certain people discuss and argue to prove they know more, but not to learn from the other side. I wish this guy wasn't so stubborn. He's taking such a strong stance, but it's based on nothing. OBJ can get hurt. OBJ can become a cancer. None of it is based on reality. Reality is that Terps only likes choir boys with no personality. Im sure he would have suggested trading LT back in the day.
RE: .  
Keith : 6/16/2017 11:21 am : link
In comment 13501828 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Joey, on the other hand, will tell me I'm a fucking loser and that I sicken him for taking Beckham's side. He also told me I'll never win a damn thing. :(

I still love him, though.


Yeah I saw that. He's always been cordial with me so....sucks for you?
Terps  
djm : 6/16/2017 11:22 am : link
ive said this 100 times now. Who cares if the guy is a fucking asshole? You keep on railing on this point but no one cares other than you and a few others.

I most definitely labeled Owens an asshole. And I couldn't wait for the Eagles to get rid of him. Couldn't wait for Dallas to get rid of him.

How many times did the Giants beat those Eagle and Cowboy teams when Owens was playing for them? Wanna take a stab at the won loss record? It aint pretty. Want to speculate on how different life would be for us if Owens isn't playing on a broken leg in super bowl 39 or on a high ankle sprain in the 2007 divisional playoff game?

Would anyone care if Owens was a total fucking asshole if the Giants lose to Dallas in the 07 playoffs?

No one cares. No one. All that matters is how the guy plays on Sunday. Of course there's a fine line between asshole who is worth the trouble and asshole who isn't, I have news for you all, if the guy isn't any good, he's not worth anything, asshole or not.

Hey I think another soccer player just scored a goal. And now he's literally taking off his clothes and taking selfie pics. What a team orientated player.
RE: I don't know.  
Klaatu : 6/16/2017 11:23 am : link
In comment 13501829 Keith said:
Quote:
I never respect stubborness because those people will never see the other side of hte discussion. Certain people discuss and argue to prove they know more, but not to learn from the other side. I wish this guy wasn't so stubborn. He's taking such a strong stance, but it's based on nothing. OBJ can get hurt. OBJ can become a cancer. None of it is based on reality. Reality is that Terps only likes choir boys with no personality. Im sure he would have suggested trading LT back in the day.


Terps doesn't want to pay OBJ, therefore he'll use any excuse to avoid having to.

He may say it's not about the money, but as they say...
RE: arc  
djm : 6/16/2017 11:25 am : link
In comment 13501373 Go Terps said:
Quote:
And if this were true:



Quote:


The whole "losing player" thing is largely a myth and BS fan narrative that gets made up when people don't like player personalities.



...explain Terrell Owens and Randy Moss. Both of those guys were all-time talented (and productive) wide receivers. Then why did each guy play for five different teams? Why is it that when NFL Films shot "A Football Life" for Terrell Owens they could not get any of Jeff Garcia, Tony Romo, or Donovan McNabb to participate?

Why did Randy Moss get traded at the age of 27 after a season where he caught 13 TDs? Why was he traded by Bill Belichick a year after putting up 83/1264/13?

Better players than Odell Beckham have screwed up teams and worn out welcomes by being lousy teammates. It's not a made up fan narrative.


Again, more horse shit. Everyone wore out their welcome in Oakland when Moss was there. When he went to NE he was perfect on and off the field. Belichick also ran guys like Welker and Seymore out of town. Were they "problems" too?

Owens is also one of the more unique examples one can bring up here. You're grasping and reaching.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 6/16/2017 11:26 am : link
In comment 13501830 Keith said:
Quote:
In comment 13501828 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Joey, on the other hand, will tell me I'm a fucking loser and that I sicken him for taking Beckham's side. He also told me I'll never win a damn thing. :(

I still love him, though.



Yeah I saw that. He's always been cordial with me so....sucks for you?


Obviously. He didn't even invite me to his birthday party. I thought that was pretty rude.
RE: LTS  
djm : 6/16/2017 11:31 am : link
In comment 13501378 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I think it's completely relevant, because fans tend to have a clearer view of a player when they aren't wearing his jersey.


Again, you're coloring many NYG fans as stupid or ignorant or blinded when in reality we just don't give a fuck about hyper analyzed horse shit. We all want Beckham to be flawless and get every ounce out of his career. But at the end of the day most of this shit we hear is noise. Most of the shit we read is is gossip crap. Missing OTAs? Ok fine, not the ideal situation but this shit happens ALL THE TIME. All over the NFL this very minute star players are missing OTAs. AAron Donald. Numerous Pats. Numerous KC defensive stars. Go look.

If OBJ was on the Skins i'd fucking hate him. I'd say he's a diva. A pain in the ass. A baby. And i'd call him the most explosive WR i've seen since Randy Moss. And i'd probably be pissed off that the Giants have gone 2-6 against the Skins in that time frame.

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