Anyone hear it???
Mike was SCREAMING at Kim
Kim was defending OBJ, and stood her ground hard. Told Mike he's the only only who still cares etc..
Mike kept bringing up the breakfast OBJ skipped etc etc
It was INSANELY AWKWARD. Kim WOULD NOT BOW TO THE POPE AT ALL!!! IT WAS INSANE!!!!
Same here I almost had to stop the car
And Mike kept saying no I'm right youwa wrong!!! Snacks came!!! COLLINS CAME, WE PAID OBJ HE DIDNT SHOW etc
Then Mike even ripped OV a little too
Mike was mad lol
I don't see anything on wfan website hmm maybe YouTube maybe
I miss Mike on yes
There's some truth in mike's ridiculous take on Beckham but he's way over the top. And he's backing himself in to a corner with all this nostalgic crap about players of yesterday never missing OTAs. Then he said the OTAs weren't even optional back then. This is irrelevant since virtually every single high profile player going back then missed actual training camp time over money or other "selfish" reasons. The whole rant sounds like a misinformed looney fan. He also fails to even acknowledge that other stat players from all over the NFL miss these things. He literally ignored Kim when she mentioned this.
It's on WFAN website.
Link - ( New Window )
It's unfortunate, but he has been a caricature of himself since his incessant rants about O.J. After about a year of it I changed the channel, and never looked back.
Today's baller has to follow the Darwinian curve. Accrue as much money as possible, as quickly as you can. Today's player is not only subjected to CTE, and its associated ailments, they also play on a surface designed to expedite movement, and accommodate the next "event."
Few owners are still in it for "Love of the Game.. Jerry Jones, changed the game when he purchased the Cowboys, and licensed everything including the teams vending machines. Players are a commodity, and to paraphrase our DB coach: rarely does one come along that changes the game.
Me thinks we have two of those players in OBJ, and Collins. I believe they'll both end their career in NY, although I honestly believe Collins has more upside. Collins played more instinctively last year, as was evidenced by the ferocity of his tackles. I think we witness greatness this year.
the reason he continues to bitch about the breakfast is because he finally thought he was going to get a chancd to interview hin
But for those that think this was an argument.... Please.
There was nothing wrong with it.....I expected a drag out fight......the way people were describing it.
the reason he continues to bitch about the breakfast is because he finally thought he was going to get a chancd to interview hin
BINGO! Whenever Mike has some weird hatred towards an athlete, this is it. Mike hates Curry chewing on his mouthpiece(sure) curry just wont go on his show. Hates JJ Watt for being in on offense in a playoff game and calls him overrated? Please, Watt just dont know who Mike is and wont go on his show.
He thinks OBJ should be at OTAs. He made some valid points along with his BS.
She wasn't even backing odell as much as she wasn't crucifying him and she was getting on Mike. Everyone wants Odell to be as close to perfect as possible. People are just out of control with this crap.
the reason he continues to bitch about the breakfast is because he finally thought he was going to get a chancd to interview hin
100%. This is his MO. Strahan and Shockey are a few guys that come to mind. When they don't do his show, he attacks them at any opportunity. He's a POS.
But the point I think MF was trying to make -- VERY INARTICULATELY -- has some validity.
Throw out his nonsense about showing up for the sake of "team unity" -- no one in the locker thinks that's an issue. I understand that old-school thinking, but for OTAs, in this era, with this player who's well liked in the locker room, it's a non-issue.
Throw out that he missed OTAs as a protest for a new contract. That's a story trumped up by the media.
What MF eventually got around to, and seemed to be saying -- to my ears anyway was that:
No, missing OTA's isn't going to hurt OBJ on the field or set him back. But his not being there and/or missing other team events like that breakfast, DOES indicate that he hasn't grown up much since last year.
I also begrudgingly thought that MF was sort of right about OBJ being more explosive (and productive) than "great" -- a term that is thrown around rather too easily. Aside from being super talented, great players have other characteristics that OBJ hasn't shown yet.
Yes, he's a great talent. And yes, he can lead by example on the field, but he doesn't conduct himself publicly like a team leader yet. He doesn't get the optics of his actions yet. He doesn't exude much maturity at all (he's still very young).
So when MF says: "I don't see that he's grown up much from last season -- when his GM told him to grow-up." It's hard to argue with that point.
And I think it was the only valid point he was making.
I have no doubt OBJ will get better in these respects, but in many ways he isn't there yet. And nothing in OBJ's offseason points to progress in this regard.
The breakfast? Other guys can respond better than I can, but I believe he gave notice and Francessa was ripping him for selfish reasons.
Randy Moss was bashing a police officer's head on the hood of a car a couple years into his career, but there was no denying he was great.
Aaron Hernandez was murdering people and into all sorts of shady shit, but if you didn't think he was great, I don't know what metrics people use.
With Beckham I get that people don't like the antics, but antics don't define if a player is great or not - talent and production determines that.
Don't confuse the two.
Nothing illegal or bad going on here, but until he's either played great in playoff games or won a title, this stuff IS going to dog him. And his coaches and teammates are going to be asked about it and forced to waste time talking about it.
No, it's not the end of the world. Let's just say it's a less than ideal distraction that the team doesn't need. And he seems either oblivious about it, or ambivalent about it.
He's early 20s and already an established all-pro talent well on pace for a record breaking hall of fame career.
but he wasn't catching passes @ voluntary OTAs ...
Fatcesa rips OBJ in Jones interview - ( New Window )
Fatcesa hated Strahan, 100 percent. He loved Tiki.
Right Shockey had a great career, no doubt about it. And all the partying he did? Matt Harvey won't have the life and career Shockey did.
Definitely with Shockey, which began with Shockey blowing off his regularly scheduled time on WFAN at least once, and I think a couple times
and on a side note, re: previous thread that was not unexpectedly deleted, you had replied to what I was saying with a very reasonable point, appreciate that. In thinking on it, I had made an assumption based on the early chatter I was reading that wasn't yet verified, which is always dangerous ground. Even when I've disagreed with something your saying, I always respect the measured way in which you post on topics like that
He brings up this breakfast. Was Eli at this breakfast? Doesn't sound like it. So maybe the organization should come down on Eli for this breakfast.
Then Fatcessa said OBJ is not a great player. That's insane. He says he's an "explosive player but not a great player."
It is comments like this that make the Odell stuff troubling because people are really taking their personal feelings about him and judging his play. Look I don't like the guy and his haircuts and I wouldn't want to party with him either but I know what he does on the field.
It's about having the maturity and awareness to realize that because of who he is and his CELEBRITY stature (he is not JUST a player), EVERYTHING he does WILL BE overblown. And then conducting himself accordingly to minimize any distractions that causes for himself, his coaches, and teammates.
And he isn't doing that. He's just living his life and letting the chips fall where they may.
So he's still doing things that, while they are quite harmless, often look bad given the context of:
1) everything he does is news
2)his past sideline antics
3) his having a lousy playoff game and punching a hole in the wall after the boat trip.
4) His teammates being at OTAs
Now you can say it doesn't matter, and/or forgive it because he's a star -- we've forgiven way worse for other stars. But it HAS been a minor distraction in that his coaches and teammates have had to deal with questions about it.
Terrell Owens was a great player. Micheal Irvin was a great player. Jeremy Shockey was a great player.
Beckham is a side-show, mostly fueled by the Media, and he is a great WR.
To say Mike F. isn't completely off base by saying he's explosive and not great is just flat out wrong.
Terrell Owens was a great player. Micheal Irvin was a great player. Jeremy Shockey was a great player.
Beckham is a side-show, mostly fueled by the Media, and he is a great WR.
To say Mike F. isn't completely off base by saying he's explosive and not great is just flat out wrong.
Thoughts on what the former chris r thinks?
It's about having the maturity and awareness to realize that because of who he is and his CELEBRITY stature (he is not JUST a player), EVERYTHING he does WILL BE overblown. And then conducting himself accordingly to minimize any distractions that causes for himself, his coaches, and teammates.
The problem with this is that it puts the responsibility on the player to "act accordingly" because the people who consistently overblow trivial nonsense can't or won't control themselves.
Except that she was right about OBJ from the get-go, while most every other pundit was very quick to crucify the kid, including Francessa.
Speak for yourself. I like hearing from thoughtful people, not some tired hack mailing it in until retirement day.
And just to clear, as a fan, what LT did was his own business because he showed up on Sunday and raised his teammates to another level, where they would not have been without him.
Odell did not show up in Green Bay.
If you are going to be the big media star, show up on game day in the playoffs. Put the team on your back and will them to victory. Because that is what LT did
Correct. B-Mac also wouldn't do it that's why he ditched the stupid radio spot.
But, to his Beckham point, he is saying that the Giants will need to exercise some discipline on him sooner or later and and the longer it goes on, the tougher it will be. I haven't forgotten that Beckham went to Miami the
week of the GB playoff game. If he plays great or even OK, no problem. But, he had a horrible game' how many TD passes did he drop? A great player comes up great in the big games and Beckham did not. He's young and hopefully he'll make the plays this year that he didn't do last year with Engram and Marshall helping but he didn't last year. And that said, he could have, and I think should have, come to OTA and take a leadership role that this year the team is going deep into the playoffs.
The comparison to Shockey is a good one. Shockey ended up having a nice career and injuries for sure derailed him. But, he didn't have that great career with the Gians and part of the reason is that the team did not keep him in check. They got better when he left. It shouldn't have come to that and I think Francesa is saying that Beckham's unchecked sideline tantrums and acting like s diva which includes not going to the OTAs, could have the same outcome that Shockey did. Not saying it will but it could and thatb would really suck for Giants fans.
I think he dropped two passes. Wasn't one of them a 6 yard out on 3rd and short?
But, to his Beckham point, he is saying that the Giants will need to exercise some discipline on him sooner or later and and the longer it goes on, the tougher it will be. I haven't forgotten that Beckham went to Miami the
week of the GB playoff game. If he plays great or even OK, no problem. But, he had a horrible game' how many TD passes did he drop? A great player comes up great in the big games and Beckham did not. He's young and hopefully he'll make the plays this year that he didn't do last year with Engram and Marshall helping but he didn't last year. And that said, he could have, and I think should have, come to OTA and take a leadership role that this year the team is going deep into the playoffs.
The comparison to Shockey is a good one. Shockey ended up having a nice career and injuries for sure derailed him. But, he didn't have that great career with the Gians and part of the reason is that the team did not keep him in check. They got better when he left. It shouldn't have come to that and I think Francesa is saying that Beckham's unchecked sideline tantrums and acting like s diva which includes not going to the OTAs, could have the same outcome that Shockey did. Not saying it will but it could and thatb would really suck for Giants fans.
What are you going to "discipline" him for? He doesn't miss practice. He's never been benched for any kind of lateness or lack of effort. The Miami trip was 7 days away from game day, and the head coach was aware of it before he left. By every account reported he's incredibly hard working and well-liked in the locker room. John Mara has already been quoted as saying they want him here for a long time.
If you want to be mad because he didn't show up at OTAs, that's fine. The line starts where you think the team has any right to take any kind of action against him for that.
He's a leader of this team because of his immense talent but he projects this image of loving celebrity and shunning teammates. Does it have an actual on the field impact? No, it mostly won't matter once the season commences but you have a locker room full of people looking to you to lead this team to the playoffs and make a run. Being with them should be job #1. It was TEN days of OTAs and what 3-4 at Duke? So in 4.5 months or about 135 days, he couldn't spare 15? 15 of 135 days is too much to ask? It would have ruined his training regimen? By doing all of this he makes it a story, creates a distraction and generates headlines that he wishes to silence. So is he self sabotaging his image with the idea that he'll show everyone this year? Maybe. I personally don't think he's bright enough to do that but he is probably narcissistic enough to and he wouldn't be the first athlete to seek the spotlight and churn up the press only to ask them to quiet down.
I don't think he's a bad teammate on the field or in the locker room, I don't think missing those 15 days is a crime and I applaud his desire to improve and grow. From his little petri dish though, he doesn't SEE what his actions are doing and they have a negative impact. Every question every teammate and coach has to answer about where Waldo may be chips away at the team and eventually it will take a toll if he drops a pass or gets flagged for something stupid and he will. To tolerate his on the field histrionics he has to produce, and he will but to grow with his team he has show them that he's not above them and he hasn't.
And just to clear, as a fan, what LT did was his own business because he showed up on Sunday and raised his teammates to another level, where they would not have been without him.
Odell did not show up in Green Bay.
If you are going to be the big media star, show up on game day in the playoffs. Put the team on your back and will them to victory. Because that is what LT did
amen to that!
He's a leader of this team because of his immense talent but he projects this image of loving celebrity and shunning teammates. Does it have an actual on the field impact? No, it mostly won't matter once the season commences but you have a locker room full of people looking to you to lead this team to the playoffs and make a run. Being with them should be job #1. It was TEN days of OTAs and what 3-4 at Duke? So in 4.5 months or about 135 days, he couldn't spare 15? 15 of 135 days is too much to ask? It would have ruined his training regimen? By doing all of this he makes it a story, creates a distraction and generates headlines that he wishes to silence. So is he self sabotaging his image with the idea that he'll show everyone this year? Maybe. I personally don't think he's bright enough to do that but he is probably narcissistic enough to and he wouldn't be the first athlete to seek the spotlight and churn up the press only to ask them to quiet down.
I don't think he's a bad teammate on the field or in the locker room, I don't think missing those 15 days is a crime and I applaud his desire to improve and grow. From his little petri dish though, he doesn't SEE what his actions are doing and they have a negative impact. Every question every teammate and coach has to answer about where Waldo may be chips away at the team and eventually it will take a toll if he drops a pass or gets flagged for something stupid and he will. To tolerate his on the field histrionics he has to produce, and he will but to grow with his team he has show them that he's not above them and he hasn't.
He doesn't want to silence a single headline and nothing about his image has been sabotaged.
He'll talk about wanting it, but the reason he'll put something out on social media to get the buzz cookin then turn right around and deny it or have Cris Carter taking a shot at his WR coach publicly or wear cleats telling the media off is because it all generates major attention. Any attention, few exceptions, is good for stardom in this current era. This entire OTA thing has been great for his brand and exposure with how much coverage it has gotten, far better than actually showing up would have. You may not think he's smart enough to think that way for whatever reason, but the people he's got around him definitely are.
As for his teammates, oh well. They'll survive. They know how stars play these games now. Most aren't as in their feelings about it as some fans get.
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He says one thing and does another. He's been off since February and has appeared very publicly at the NCAA title game, the NBA Finals, tours with Drake and all over instagram with various celebrities. Then he goes on to say he's going to do everything he can to win and win over the fans and on and on and on. So he has two chances to show that he means it and he bails on both to do his own thing. That's absolutely his right, the Duke camp was informal, the OTAs are all by rights not much help to anyone but rookies or first year players. Does he need the work? Probably not. Can he and Eli draw up a play in the dirt and win a game in one play? Yep and they have.
He's a leader of this team because of his immense talent but he projects this image of loving celebrity and shunning teammates. Does it have an actual on the field impact? No, it mostly won't matter once the season commences but you have a locker room full of people looking to you to lead this team to the playoffs and make a run. Being with them should be job #1. It was TEN days of OTAs and what 3-4 at Duke? So in 4.5 months or about 135 days, he couldn't spare 15? 15 of 135 days is too much to ask? It would have ruined his training regimen? By doing all of this he makes it a story, creates a distraction and generates headlines that he wishes to silence. So is he self sabotaging his image with the idea that he'll show everyone this year? Maybe. I personally don't think he's bright enough to do that but he is probably narcissistic enough to and he wouldn't be the first athlete to seek the spotlight and churn up the press only to ask them to quiet down.
I don't think he's a bad teammate on the field or in the locker room, I don't think missing those 15 days is a crime and I applaud his desire to improve and grow. From his little petri dish though, he doesn't SEE what his actions are doing and they have a negative impact. Every question every teammate and coach has to answer about where Waldo may be chips away at the team and eventually it will take a toll if he drops a pass or gets flagged for something stupid and he will. To tolerate his on the field histrionics he has to produce, and he will but to grow with his team he has show them that he's not above them and he hasn't.
He doesn't want to silence a single headline and nothing about his image has been sabotaged.
He'll talk about wanting it, but the reason he'll put something out on social media to get the buzz cookin then turn right around and deny it or have Cris Carter taking a shot at his WR coach publicly or wear cleats telling the media off is because it all generates major attention. Any attention, few exceptions, is good for stardom in this current era. This entire OTA thing has been great for his brand and exposure with how much coverage it has gotten, far better than actually showing up would have. You may not think he's smart enough to think that way for whatever reason, but the people he's got around him definitely are.
As for his teammates, oh well. They'll survive. They know how stars play these games now. Most aren't as in their feelings about it as some fans get.
Odell knows this so he is going to do what he has to do. Yes he should be building his brand because he makes more money off that than what the Giants pay him. I would bang Instagram models and party with Bieber too if people threw money at me to do it, I'm not stupid.
Get what?
Did he show up to camp when he was supposed to show up? Yes.
Was he in shape when he showed up? Yes.
Is he practicing with his teammates? Yes.
That's it. Everything else is media-driven nonsense promulgated by folks who need something to write or talk about.
You know who "doesn't get it?" Anyone concerned about "bad optics."
Blowing something off means he didn't show up. Yes or no...He informed them before the event that he wasn't going?
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In comment 13499851 Joey in VA said:
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He says one thing and does another. He's been off since February and has appeared very publicly at the NCAA title game, the NBA Finals, tours with Drake and all over instagram with various celebrities. Then he goes on to say he's going to do everything he can to win and win over the fans and on and on and on. So he has two chances to show that he means it and he bails on both to do his own thing. That's absolutely his right, the Duke camp was informal, the OTAs are all by rights not much help to anyone but rookies or first year players. Does he need the work? Probably not. Can he and Eli draw up a play in the dirt and win a game in one play? Yep and they have.
He's a leader of this team because of his immense talent but he projects this image of loving celebrity and shunning teammates. Does it have an actual on the field impact? No, it mostly won't matter once the season commences but you have a locker room full of people looking to you to lead this team to the playoffs and make a run. Being with them should be job #1. It was TEN days of OTAs and what 3-4 at Duke? So in 4.5 months or about 135 days, he couldn't spare 15? 15 of 135 days is too much to ask? It would have ruined his training regimen? By doing all of this he makes it a story, creates a distraction and generates headlines that he wishes to silence. So is he self sabotaging his image with the idea that he'll show everyone this year? Maybe. I personally don't think he's bright enough to do that but he is probably narcissistic enough to and he wouldn't be the first athlete to seek the spotlight and churn up the press only to ask them to quiet down.
I don't think he's a bad teammate on the field or in the locker room, I don't think missing those 15 days is a crime and I applaud his desire to improve and grow. From his little petri dish though, he doesn't SEE what his actions are doing and they have a negative impact. Every question every teammate and coach has to answer about where Waldo may be chips away at the team and eventually it will take a toll if he drops a pass or gets flagged for something stupid and he will. To tolerate his on the field histrionics he has to produce, and he will but to grow with his team he has show them that he's not above them and he hasn't.
He doesn't want to silence a single headline and nothing about his image has been sabotaged.
He'll talk about wanting it, but the reason he'll put something out on social media to get the buzz cookin then turn right around and deny it or have Cris Carter taking a shot at his WR coach publicly or wear cleats telling the media off is because it all generates major attention. Any attention, few exceptions, is good for stardom in this current era. This entire OTA thing has been great for his brand and exposure with how much coverage it has gotten, far better than actually showing up would have. You may not think he's smart enough to think that way for whatever reason, but the people he's got around him definitely are.
As for his teammates, oh well. They'll survive. They know how stars play these games now. Most aren't as in their feelings about it as some fans get.
Exactly, it' all been great for his celebrity which he values more than the game. How that's good for this team's title chances is beyond me.
Beckham being a great player is good for this team's title chances.
None of his attention whoring subtracts from how he's the best player, between the lines, the Giants have. It hasn't gotten him out of shape or hurt production in any way.
“The way he’s reacted, letting Josh Norman get him off his game, the other things that get him off his game that he doesn’t need to do,” Carter told the Daily News. “When LeBron was in Cleveland, he was in high school. When he went to Miami, that was college. Now LeBron is in graduate school back in Cleveland. Odell went to college and it’s been an education in New York. How does he get to where LeBron is now and get to graduate school and grow up without changing the venue?”
Odell Beckham needs to focus on maturity before big money — and Cris Carter knows it - ( New Window )
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In comment 13499921 Devon said:
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In comment 13499851 Joey in VA said:
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He says one thing and does another. He's been off since February and has appeared very publicly at the NCAA title game, the NBA Finals, tours with Drake and all over instagram with various celebrities. Then he goes on to say he's going to do everything he can to win and win over the fans and on and on and on. So he has two chances to show that he means it and he bails on both to do his own thing. That's absolutely his right, the Duke camp was informal, the OTAs are all by rights not much help to anyone but rookies or first year players. Does he need the work? Probably not. Can he and Eli draw up a play in the dirt and win a game in one play? Yep and they have.
He's a leader of this team because of his immense talent but he projects this image of loving celebrity and shunning teammates. Does it have an actual on the field impact? No, it mostly won't matter once the season commences but you have a locker room full of people looking to you to lead this team to the playoffs and make a run. Being with them should be job #1. It was TEN days of OTAs and what 3-4 at Duke? So in 4.5 months or about 135 days, he couldn't spare 15? 15 of 135 days is too much to ask? It would have ruined his training regimen? By doing all of this he makes it a story, creates a distraction and generates headlines that he wishes to silence. So is he self sabotaging his image with the idea that he'll show everyone this year? Maybe. I personally don't think he's bright enough to do that but he is probably narcissistic enough to and he wouldn't be the first athlete to seek the spotlight and churn up the press only to ask them to quiet down.
I don't think he's a bad teammate on the field or in the locker room, I don't think missing those 15 days is a crime and I applaud his desire to improve and grow. From his little petri dish though, he doesn't SEE what his actions are doing and they have a negative impact. Every question every teammate and coach has to answer about where Waldo may be chips away at the team and eventually it will take a toll if he drops a pass or gets flagged for something stupid and he will. To tolerate his on the field histrionics he has to produce, and he will but to grow with his team he has show them that he's not above them and he hasn't.
He doesn't want to silence a single headline and nothing about his image has been sabotaged.
He'll talk about wanting it, but the reason he'll put something out on social media to get the buzz cookin then turn right around and deny it or have Cris Carter taking a shot at his WR coach publicly or wear cleats telling the media off is because it all generates major attention. Any attention, few exceptions, is good for stardom in this current era. This entire OTA thing has been great for his brand and exposure with how much coverage it has gotten, far better than actually showing up would have. You may not think he's smart enough to think that way for whatever reason, but the people he's got around him definitely are.
As for his teammates, oh well. They'll survive. They know how stars play these games now. Most aren't as in their feelings about it as some fans get.
Exactly, it' all been great for his celebrity which he values more than the game. How that's good for this team's title chances is beyond me.
Beckham being a great player is good for this team's title chances.
None of his attention whoring subtracts from how he's the best player, between the lines, the Giants have. It hasn't gotten him out of shape or hurt production in any way.
I guess I"m looking at from a perfect scenario standpoint, and perhaps I shouldn't. In a perfect world he flies back for OTAs, goes to Duke and shows that his team matters. That's all my point really is. Every little bit helps and in a league where games can turn on a play and every season has moments that can possibly define it, I want as much on my side as possible. Is that such an outrageous position to take?
So... he's a sports fan?
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In comment 13499851 Joey in VA said:
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He says one thing and does another. He's been off since February and has appeared very publicly at the NCAA title game, the NBA Finals, tours with Drake and all over instagram with various celebrities. Then he goes on to say he's going to do everything he can to win and win over the fans and on and on and on. So he has two chances to show that he means it and he bails on both to do his own thing. That's absolutely his right, the Duke camp was informal, the OTAs are all by rights not much help to anyone but rookies or first year players. Does he need the work? Probably not. Can he and Eli draw up a play in the dirt and win a game in one play? Yep and they have.
He's a leader of this team because of his immense talent but he projects this image of loving celebrity and shunning teammates. Does it have an actual on the field impact? No, it mostly won't matter once the season commences but you have a locker room full of people looking to you to lead this team to the playoffs and make a run. Being with them should be job #1. It was TEN days of OTAs and what 3-4 at Duke? So in 4.5 months or about 135 days, he couldn't spare 15? 15 of 135 days is too much to ask? It would have ruined his training regimen? By doing all of this he makes it a story, creates a distraction and generates headlines that he wishes to silence. So is he self sabotaging his image with the idea that he'll show everyone this year? Maybe. I personally don't think he's bright enough to do that but he is probably narcissistic enough to and he wouldn't be the first athlete to seek the spotlight and churn up the press only to ask them to quiet down.
I don't think he's a bad teammate on the field or in the locker room, I don't think missing those 15 days is a crime and I applaud his desire to improve and grow. From his little petri dish though, he doesn't SEE what his actions are doing and they have a negative impact. Every question every teammate and coach has to answer about where Waldo may be chips away at the team and eventually it will take a toll if he drops a pass or gets flagged for something stupid and he will. To tolerate his on the field histrionics he has to produce, and he will but to grow with his team he has show them that he's not above them and he hasn't.
He doesn't want to silence a single headline and nothing about his image has been sabotaged.
He'll talk about wanting it, but the reason he'll put something out on social media to get the buzz cookin then turn right around and deny it or have Cris Carter taking a shot at his WR coach publicly or wear cleats telling the media off is because it all generates major attention. Any attention, few exceptions, is good for stardom in this current era. This entire OTA thing has been great for his brand and exposure with how much coverage it has gotten, far better than actually showing up would have. You may not think he's smart enough to think that way for whatever reason, but the people he's got around him definitely are.
As for his teammates, oh well. They'll survive. They know how stars play these games now. Most aren't as in their feelings about it as some fans get.
Exactly, it' all been great for his celebrity which he values more than the game. How that's good for this team's title chances is beyond me.
Odell values his own celebrity more than the game?
Really.
Bullshit.
LT cared sooooo much about the game unless he was drunk and cracked out 14 hours before kickoff. Gimme a break already. You think you know a player. You don't.
Whatever I'm done with this stupid childish debate. Hopefully Beckham lasts a long time and stays healthy. That's all that matters.
Terrell Owens was a great player. Micheal Irvin was a great player. Jeremy Shockey was a great player.
Beckham is a side-show, mostly fueled by the Media, and he is a great WR.
To say Mike F. isn't completely off base by saying he's explosive and not great is just flat out wrong.
Shocked was good..not great imo
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still doesn't mean he isn't a great player.
Terrell Owens was a great player. Micheal Irvin was a great player. Jeremy Shockey was a great player.
Beckham is a side-show, mostly fueled by the Media, and he is a great WR.
To say Mike F. isn't completely off base by saying he's explosive and not great is just flat out wrong.
Shocked was good..not great imo
Shockey
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In comment 13499925 Joey in VA said:
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In comment 13499921 Devon said:
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In comment 13499851 Joey in VA said:
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He says one thing and does another. He's been off since February and has appeared very publicly at the NCAA title game, the NBA Finals, tours with Drake and all over instagram with various celebrities. Then he goes on to say he's going to do everything he can to win and win over the fans and on and on and on. So he has two chances to show that he means it and he bails on both to do his own thing. That's absolutely his right, the Duke camp was informal, the OTAs are all by rights not much help to anyone but rookies or first year players. Does he need the work? Probably not. Can he and Eli draw up a play in the dirt and win a game in one play? Yep and they have.
He's a leader of this team because of his immense talent but he projects this image of loving celebrity and shunning teammates. Does it have an actual on the field impact? No, it mostly won't matter once the season commences but you have a locker room full of people looking to you to lead this team to the playoffs and make a run. Being with them should be job #1. It was TEN days of OTAs and what 3-4 at Duke? So in 4.5 months or about 135 days, he couldn't spare 15? 15 of 135 days is too much to ask? It would have ruined his training regimen? By doing all of this he makes it a story, creates a distraction and generates headlines that he wishes to silence. So is he self sabotaging his image with the idea that he'll show everyone this year? Maybe. I personally don't think he's bright enough to do that but he is probably narcissistic enough to and he wouldn't be the first athlete to seek the spotlight and churn up the press only to ask them to quiet down.
I don't think he's a bad teammate on the field or in the locker room, I don't think missing those 15 days is a crime and I applaud his desire to improve and grow. From his little petri dish though, he doesn't SEE what his actions are doing and they have a negative impact. Every question every teammate and coach has to answer about where Waldo may be chips away at the team and eventually it will take a toll if he drops a pass or gets flagged for something stupid and he will. To tolerate his on the field histrionics he has to produce, and he will but to grow with his team he has show them that he's not above them and he hasn't.
He doesn't want to silence a single headline and nothing about his image has been sabotaged.
He'll talk about wanting it, but the reason he'll put something out on social media to get the buzz cookin then turn right around and deny it or have Cris Carter taking a shot at his WR coach publicly or wear cleats telling the media off is because it all generates major attention. Any attention, few exceptions, is good for stardom in this current era. This entire OTA thing has been great for his brand and exposure with how much coverage it has gotten, far better than actually showing up would have. You may not think he's smart enough to think that way for whatever reason, but the people he's got around him definitely are.
As for his teammates, oh well. They'll survive. They know how stars play these games now. Most aren't as in their feelings about it as some fans get.
Exactly, it' all been great for his celebrity which he values more than the game. How that's good for this team's title chances is beyond me.
Beckham being a great player is good for this team's title chances.
None of his attention whoring subtracts from how he's the best player, between the lines, the Giants have. It hasn't gotten him out of shape or hurt production in any way.
Dude, I'm not worried about Odell, he'll perform. He's a lights out football player, I never at any time dispute that. A team with title hopes has to be focused, this lessens that focus. How about we agree it's not optimal from an approach standpoint as it relates to his team? I get the branding thing, I want these guys to rake in the bucks because they do put it all out there on Sundays but a little more team and a little less ME wouldn't kill the guy. That's all I'm saying. I'm not terribly bent out of shape by all of it, I just prefer it went differently, why is that such a difficult thing for people to grasp? By people I'm not pointing at you btw, I say one thing and the usual cast of clowns invokes my name on other threads to be cute which is fine, they need an outlet for their middling intelligence and absence of humor.
I guess I"m looking at from a perfect scenario standpoint, and perhaps I shouldn't. In a perfect world he flies back for OTAs, goes to Duke and shows that his team matters. That's all my point really is. Every little bit helps and in a league where games can turn on a play and every season has moments that can possibly define it, I want as much on my side as possible. Is that such an outrageous position to take?
It's actually not outrageous at all, and I think at the core, every Giants fan would pick that if they have a choice.
I just never thought calling people "fucking losers" for not thinking it's a huge deal made any sense, personally.
- 2 time Super Bowl winner
- 4 time Pro Bowler
- First team All-Pro
- Winner of first ever Diet Pepsi Rookie of the Year Award
I think he was more than just good.
I don't know if or how his story applies to Beckham. I think better cautionary tales can be found with our own stable of injured receiver in recent years, and with Dez Bryant who put up three years every bit as good as Beckham's. He got paid, got hurt, and now Dallas is vastly overpaying a player that hasn't been very productive in two seasons.
And despite what the sycophant Instagram followers in the Beckham throwbacks say, it's not out of line to consider the possibility that Beckham might either be a lousy teammate now or could become one during the life of what is sure to be an enormous contract.
So, for all of the people who try that whole "divas never win" BS.. Shockey is another check mark in the "not true" box.
We don't make the playoffs without Beckham last year. We need him. He's a ridiculously good NFL WR. He's a little weird on and off the field but he's worth coddling. He's worth the slight annoyances and really, he's done very little wrong. Some Of you are drama queens. You continue to feed the beast.
I really don't believe either would have precluded NYG from winning in 2007 if they had been healthy or still on the roster.
Shockey was certainly a bit immature and Barber's ego was always a bit inflated, but Barber was also the best RB in Giants history and was still at his peak at that point in time so I really doubt the team won because he (or Shockey) were gone.
If anything, the offense probably wouldn't have had to lean on the defense as much to get through those playoffs.
All hypotheticals, though. I obviously can't prove any of that. I just don't believe Beckham is a "losing player" which some here have referred to him as.
When people talk about "addition by subtraction," I certainly don't believe this is a case where that would apply.
Shockey made plays. It's not like he didn't give you anything. I suppose one could argue that having a player who was a better route runner may have been a better fit, and maybe not having him around to make Eli's life a little more difficult helped, but who really knows?
Agreed 1000%.
I think she's amazing. Been on of the best since she started. Hell I'd be beyond elated if she took over Francesca's spot next year. She's a smart cookie.
100% ??
Ok. I am not crazy enough to say one way or the other that shockey's injury definitely was or wasn't a factor. I'm not going to change a thing about January 2008 if I had the chance to do it again that's for sure. Everything clicked just right. That still doesn't mean that shockey wasn't a winning player. He didn't hurt the saints that's for sure. But you knew that.
Still means nothing when discussing Beckham.
C'mon, there's no possible way to know that.
And he won a Super Bowl 2 years later.. so clearly he wasn't a guy you couldn't win with.
You may have hated Plax and Shockey but the bottom line is that both guys have rings on their fingers and both guys were on the receiving end of big TD passes in Super Bowls.
The whole "losing player" thing is largely a myth and BS fan narrative that gets made up when people don't like player personalities.
What we DO know is that Shockey freelanced on his routes, or just plain fucked them up. He was also a pain in the ass on the sideline and in the huddle, and gave Eli shit when he didn't get him the ball. This has been corroborated by multiple sources over the years.
Much of the same (and worse) can be said about Plax...some of it extending off the field and involving guns (the incident shortly after he was signed, linked below) and obviously when he shot himself and ruined what could have been a Super Bowl season. Let's not forget Steve Smith's quote about Plax barely showing up to practice, dozens of team fines, suspensions, as well as the incident the night before the Super Bowl where Plax supposedly "slipped in the shower" and injured himself.
Shockey and Plax are two of the most talented players to ever play for the Giants. But if you think that that shit I listed above (none of which is made up or my own conjecture) doesn't hurt a team then we have a completely different interpretation of what comprises a team and what it means to be a good teammate.
In the case of Shockey, Kevin Boss may have had a fraction of the talent but he could be trusted to do his job...which made him a better football player for the Giants in 2007. The Giants then traded away Shockey even though Boss was a fraction of the physical player.
Look in any group as large as a football team you're going to get some assholes. But there's a point where the guy goes beyond being an asshole and becomes a problem. Both Shockey and Plax passed that point.
djm...the reason these two guys get brought up (and it wasn't by me) in relation to Beckham is that the feeling is Beckham could also pass that point. I don't think he's past that point now...I just think he's an asshole...but it doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to see him cross the line from "asshole" to "problem". And anyone that doesn't see that potential is being obtuse, because as I have said about BBI before: if Beckham were on the Philadelphia Eagles EVERY SINGLE FUCKING POSTER would call him a gaping asshole. Every single one.
Link - ( New Window )
And anyone that doesn't see that potential is being obtuse, because as I have said about BBI before: if Beckham were on the Philadelphia Eagles EVERY SINGLE FUCKING POSTER would call him a gaping asshole. Every single one. Link - ( New Window )
Without malice, you are coming across as a really weird dude when it comes to OBJ. The passion with which you hate this kid is not healthy....and to be honest pretty weird.
...explain Terrell Owens and Randy Moss. Both of those guys were all-time talented (and productive) wide receivers. Then why did each guy play for five different teams? Why is it that when NFL Films shot "A Football Life" for Terrell Owens they could not get any of Jeff Garcia, Tony Romo, or Donovan McNabb to participate?
Why did Randy Moss get traded at the age of 27 after a season where he caught 13 TDs? Why was he traded by Bill Belichick a year after putting up 83/1264/13?
Better players than Odell Beckham have screwed up teams and worn out welcomes by being lousy teammates. It's not a made up fan narrative.
He hasn't been yet, but are you honestly telling me you don't see any potential of it happening?
And Moss was a fingertip away from capping off the perfect season in 2007.
Moss's work ethic issues are certainly a large part of why he went all over the place but TO's work ethic was never in doubt, he was just an asshole and regularly undermined his QBs.
Odell has never once given any indication that he will undermine Eli. He's had his young, immature moments to be sure. Some could even argue he's an asshole and I won't argue against it (I happen to think until further notice, it's young immaturity, that could turn into total asshole but we're not there yet)
Lastly, who cares if we would think he's an asshole if he were on the eagles? He's a giant. That alternate reality is completely irrelevant.
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He's not even in the same universe as TO when it comes to being a distraction or divisive force in the locker room. The only similarities those guys share is being incredibly talented.
He hasn't been yet, but are you honestly telling me you don't see any potential of it happening?
The guy works too hard to be taking plays off like Moss used to. The guy's motor is running all the time on the field. Don't really see him going the TO route either. His infractions have been small potatoes aside from the Norman thing, and that stemmed from the refs letting things escalate the way they did.
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He's not even in the same universe as TO when it comes to being a distraction or divisive force in the locker room. The only similarities those guys share is being incredibly talented.
He hasn't been yet, but are you honestly telling me you don't see any potential of it happening?
lmao
now we're going to start worrying about pre-crime. This is healthy.
Owens was part of the best Eagles team in both the Reid-era and recent memory, largely by his own doing. Owens scored 14 times in 14 games that year.
He was likely going to be SB MVP if their defense could have held against NE. He was fantastic in a game where he returned from a broken leg way ahead of schedule.
Moss was a helmet catch away from a perfect season.
If things beyond each players control happened differently, they'd both have Super Bowl rings and would have been major parts of those accomplishments.
Moss also scored in that SB. Just like Burress. Just like Shockey. Guys you keep referring to as losing players seem to show up in February quite a bit over the course of time. I think it's a bullshit narrative and don't buy it one bit.
So, the idea that players like them hold teams back? Yeah, I think it's 100% bullshit.
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- Medical science might need to do a case study on Terrell Owens. He might have made the greatest recovery from an injury in 39 years of the Super Bowl.
Just seven weeks ago, Owens broke his leg and tore a critical ligament in his right ankle. He needed surgery and his surgeon wouldn't clear him to play against the Patriots. The medical world thought he was crazy. Owens fooled them all by playing 62 of 72 offensive snaps and catching nine passes for 122 yards.
It might have been the most courageous performance in Super Bowl history. To no one's surprise, T.O. was the first off the field and the first to the podium in the postgame interview room. Even though the Eagles were the losers, 24-21, in Super Bowl XXXIX, Owens was a big winner.
He did what was considered impossible.
Cornerbacks Randall Gay and Asante Samuel played man-to-man defense about 95 percent of the snaps.
That meant either Gay, an undrafted rookie, or Samuel, a second-year cornerback, would be man-to-man against T.O. Quarterback Donovan McNabb wasted no time by throwing his first completion to Owens for seven yards. Throughout the crowd, you could hear the mutterings, "He's back."
"What that man did was incredible," Samuel said. "To come back the way he did from a broken ankle and play at the level he played. Well, what can you say? Some may [have] thought Owens was selfish, but he didn't want to miss the stage of the Super Bowl for himself and his teammates. Sure, he wasn't the same Owens. He didn't have great explosiveness in his run. There were times that he appeared to be limping."
But McNabb kept sending Owens downfield and kept hitting him with passes. He was making a statement.
"Before we came down here, I knew I was going to play all along," Owens said. "The media made it a situation to where they thought I was grandstanding. But like I told a lot of people. If [that was] Brett Favre, they would have called him a warrior."
http://archive.boston.com/sports/articles/2005/02/03/specialists_say_owens_risking_career/
Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver Terrell Owens could suffer a career-ending injury should he play in Sunday's Super Bowl, and the team is ethically obligated to prevent him from taking such a risk, according to local medical specialists.
Boston area orthopedic experts said Owens's injury, a fractured right fibula and torn lower leg ligament, could easily be aggravated by a hard hit, an uneven landing, or a sudden pivot -- all in a day's work for an NFL receiver.
Moreover, despite Owens's claims of fitness, his physical skills are likely impaired by his injury, according to the specialists. They said it would be unwise -- and unethical -- for the Eagles to ignore the advice of Owens's surgeon, Dr. Mark Myerson. The president of the American Orthopaedic Foot and Ankle Society, Myerson has said Owens should not play.
"Can't win with that guy!"
I fully expect other fans to call Beckham a gaping asshole. We can even call him that.
But again - having the perception of being a gaping asshole doesn't mean he is a detriment to the team or can't win. Ray Lewis seemed to be a gaping asshole. Brett Favre seemed like a gaping asshole. The entire squads of the Cowboys and Raiders in the 70's were roided up, drugged out gaping assholes. Assholes still win rings.
We get that you don't like his antics. But to say they spill over into production or the ability to win is pure speculation, just like making a comment that there is no chance the giants would've won that SB with Shockey.
It's irrelevant. You don't win Championships by having the highest concentration of nice guys or good samaritans.
The majority of the teams Owens played for in his career were very good and he was a big reason why. He was on an Eagles team that won 13 games, he was on a Cowboys team that won 13 games, he was on a 49er team that won 13 games (plus, three 12-win teams on top of that)
People who say things like "Beckham will never win anything in his career" are being ridiculous. There is a long list of guys in this league who had questionable personalities and were on the winning end of a fuck ton of football games.
Does every fan outside of NY think OBJ is a gaping ahole? Doesn't seem that way to me. Seems like he's a pretty well liked guy outside of NY. So why if he was in philly would we all of a sudden hate him? Because he's on a rival maybe?
It's a ridiculous stance to say we need to get rid of a generational talent because of the outside chance that he can get hurt or become a problem child. This guy is looking for reasons to climb out of this hole he's in and he's coming across like a moron. It's really not even worth discussing further at this point. OBJ isn't going anywhere. OBJ is, one of the best, if not the best WR in football. He is one of the only guys who has the ability to take any 5 yard curl to the house. He's electric. He's well liked(are all 9B followers Giants fans??). He's a quality human being off the field that connects with people.
Is he perfect? No. He's definitely immature and needs to learn how to channel is passion. He will. He will also sign a massive contract and hopefully we can all rub it in this guys face every time he dominates, which will probably be 3 out of every 4 games. I look forward to that.
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He's not even in the same universe as TO when it comes to being a distraction or divisive force in the locker room. The only similarities those guys share is being incredibly talented.
He hasn't been yet, but are you honestly telling me you don't see any potential of it happening?
I see zero chance of that hapopening
and yet the best eagles team over the last 55 years featured Owens at WR. hmmmm....
Which carries more weight in the grand scheme of things? Perception or reality?
What we DO know is that Shockey freelanced on his routes, or just plain fucked them up. He was also a pain in the ass on the sideline and in the huddle, and gave Eli shit when he didn't get him the ball. This has been corroborated by multiple sources over the years.
Much of the same (and worse) can be said about Plax...some of it extending off the field and involving guns (the incident shortly after he was signed, linked below) and obviously when he shot himself and ruined what could have been a Super Bowl season. Let's not forget Steve Smith's quote about Plax barely showing up to practice, dozens of team fines, suspensions, as well as the incident the night before the Super Bowl where Plax supposedly "slipped in the shower" and injured himself.
Shockey and Plax are two of the most talented players to ever play for the Giants. But if you think that that shit I listed above (none of which is made up or my own conjecture) doesn't hurt a team then we have a completely different interpretation of what comprises a team and what it means to be a good teammate.
In the case of Shockey, Kevin Boss may have had a fraction of the talent but he could be trusted to do his job...which made him a better football player for the Giants in 2007. The Giants then traded away Shockey even though Boss was a fraction of the physical player.
Look in any group as large as a football team you're going to get some assholes. But there's a point where the guy goes beyond being an asshole and becomes a problem. Both Shockey and Plax passed that point.
djm...the reason these two guys get brought up (and it wasn't by me) in relation to Beckham is that the feeling is Beckham could also pass that point. I don't think he's past that point now...I just think he's an asshole...but it doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to see him cross the line from "asshole" to "problem". And anyone that doesn't see that potential is being obtuse, because as I have said about BBI before: if Beckham were on the Philadelphia Eagles EVERY SINGLE FUCKING POSTER would call him a gaping asshole. Every single one. Link - ( New Window )
This has holes all over it too. Jerry Rice was a pain in the ass in the huddle. Numerous players have corroborated this.
Do we really know for certain whether Shockey was a poor route runner? Nope. We have only heard or seen that once in a while he'd run the wrong route. Wow. That never happens.
Shockey and Plax "hurt" the team yet the team did nothing but win when both players were in NY. Maybe they could have gotten more out of their respective careers, I can't dispute that, but they were good players here who helped the team win. They did more good than bad. They were worth any trouble they may have caused and once their talents dropped below the water mark they were jettisoned.
This is fucking stupid.
You're not proving anything.
Does every fan outside of NY think OBJ is a gaping ahole? Doesn't seem that way to me. Seems like he's a pretty well liked guy outside of NY. So why if he was in philly would we all of a sudden hate him? Because he's on a rival maybe?
It's a ridiculous stance to say we need to get rid of a generational talent because of the outside chance that he can get hurt or become a problem child. This guy is looking for reasons to climb out of this hole he's in and he's coming across like a moron. It's really not even worth discussing further at this point. OBJ isn't going anywhere. OBJ is, one of the best, if not the best WR in football. He is one of the only guys who has the ability to take any 5 yard curl to the house. He's electric. He's well liked(are all 9B followers Giants fans??). He's a quality human being off the field that connects with people.
Is he perfect? No. He's definitely immature and needs to learn how to channel is passion. He will. He will also sign a massive contract and hopefully we can all rub it in this guys face every time he dominates, which will probably be 3 out of every 4 games. I look forward to that.
I def don't think Terps is a dumb guy. He and I have disagreed and argued endlessly in recent years. Especially about Beckham. But I kinda respect his stubbornness. We've gone back and forth on this stuff like 10000 times but it's never personal and always stays within the realm of football. I rarely agree with his takes, but they do interest me.
Much rather this than deal with a fucking putz like radar.
I still love him, though.
I still love him, though.
Yeah I saw that. He's always been cordial with me so....sucks for you?
I most definitely labeled Owens an asshole. And I couldn't wait for the Eagles to get rid of him. Couldn't wait for Dallas to get rid of him.
How many times did the Giants beat those Eagle and Cowboy teams when Owens was playing for them? Wanna take a stab at the won loss record? It aint pretty. Want to speculate on how different life would be for us if Owens isn't playing on a broken leg in super bowl 39 or on a high ankle sprain in the 2007 divisional playoff game?
Would anyone care if Owens was a total fucking asshole if the Giants lose to Dallas in the 07 playoffs?
No one cares. No one. All that matters is how the guy plays on Sunday. Of course there's a fine line between asshole who is worth the trouble and asshole who isn't, I have news for you all, if the guy isn't any good, he's not worth anything, asshole or not.
Hey I think another soccer player just scored a goal. And now he's literally taking off his clothes and taking selfie pics. What a team orientated player.
Terps doesn't want to pay OBJ, therefore he'll use any excuse to avoid having to.
He may say it's not about the money, but as they say...
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The whole "losing player" thing is largely a myth and BS fan narrative that gets made up when people don't like player personalities.
...explain Terrell Owens and Randy Moss. Both of those guys were all-time talented (and productive) wide receivers. Then why did each guy play for five different teams? Why is it that when NFL Films shot "A Football Life" for Terrell Owens they could not get any of Jeff Garcia, Tony Romo, or Donovan McNabb to participate?
Why did Randy Moss get traded at the age of 27 after a season where he caught 13 TDs? Why was he traded by Bill Belichick a year after putting up 83/1264/13?
Better players than Odell Beckham have screwed up teams and worn out welcomes by being lousy teammates. It's not a made up fan narrative.
Again, more horse shit. Everyone wore out their welcome in Oakland when Moss was there. When he went to NE he was perfect on and off the field. Belichick also ran guys like Welker and Seymore out of town. Were they "problems" too?
Owens is also one of the more unique examples one can bring up here. You're grasping and reaching.
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Joey, on the other hand, will tell me I'm a fucking loser and that I sicken him for taking Beckham's side. He also told me I'll never win a damn thing. :(
I still love him, though.
Yeah I saw that. He's always been cordial with me so....sucks for you?
Obviously. He didn't even invite me to his birthday party. I thought that was pretty rude.
Again, you're coloring many NYG fans as stupid or ignorant or blinded when in reality we just don't give a fuck about hyper analyzed horse shit. We all want Beckham to be flawless and get every ounce out of his career. But at the end of the day most of this shit we hear is noise. Most of the shit we read is is gossip crap. Missing OTAs? Ok fine, not the ideal situation but this shit happens ALL THE TIME. All over the NFL this very minute star players are missing OTAs. AAron Donald. Numerous Pats. Numerous KC defensive stars. Go look.
If OBJ was on the Skins i'd fucking hate him. I'd say he's a diva. A pain in the ass. A baby. And i'd call him the most explosive WR i've seen since Randy Moss. And i'd probably be pissed off that the Giants have gone 2-6 against the Skins in that time frame.