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Francesa and Kim Jones discussing OBJ earlier...

DennyInDenville : 6/13/2017 10:37 pm
Anyone hear it???

Mike was SCREAMING at Kim

Kim was defending OBJ, and stood her ground hard. Told Mike he's the only only who still cares etc..

Mike kept bringing up the breakfast OBJ skipped etc etc

It was INSANELY AWKWARD. Kim WOULD NOT BOW TO THE POPE AT ALL!!! IT WAS INSANE!!!!
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RE: What He Said About Beckham  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/14/2017 12:53 pm : link
In comment 13499762 Samiam said:
Quote:

But, to his Beckham point, he is saying that the Giants will need to exercise some discipline on him sooner or later and and the longer it goes on, the tougher it will be. I haven't forgotten that Beckham went to Miami the
week of the GB playoff game. If he plays great or even OK, no problem. But, he had a horrible game' how many TD passes did he drop? A great player comes up great in the big games and Beckham did not. He's young and hopefully he'll make the plays this year that he didn't do last year with Engram and Marshall helping but he didn't last year. And that said, he could have, and I think should have, come to OTA and take a leadership role that this year the team is going deep into the playoffs.

The comparison to Shockey is a good one. Shockey ended up having a nice career and injuries for sure derailed him. But, he didn't have that great career with the Gians and part of the reason is that the team did not keep him in check. They got better when he left. It shouldn't have come to that and I think Francesa is saying that Beckham's unchecked sideline tantrums and acting like s diva which includes not going to the OTAs, could have the same outcome that Shockey did. Not saying it will but it could and thatb would really suck for Giants fans.


What are you going to "discipline" him for? He doesn't miss practice. He's never been benched for any kind of lateness or lack of effort. The Miami trip was 7 days away from game day, and the head coach was aware of it before he left. By every account reported he's incredibly hard working and well-liked in the locker room. John Mara has already been quoted as saying they want him here for a long time.

If you want to be mad because he didn't show up at OTAs, that's fine. The line starts where you think the team has any right to take any kind of action against him for that.


Yea Kim Jones is no nonsense one of the best in the business  
Stu11 : 6/14/2017 12:53 pm : link
so I damn well care about what she has to say. She does her homework and hustles her ass off. Mike? I've listened to him since the beginning of M and the MD but not so much in recent years. He sits in his studio like a king in a castle and doesn't get out for air enough to realize what the hell has been going on in sports the past 10 years. Honestly I think he jumped the shark when MD left. He needs someone else to balance him out. Kim actually would have been great for that, they have a good chemistry.
And Jeremy Shockey was a hard partier and blackout drinker  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/14/2017 12:54 pm : link
Very hard to draw lines connecting the two.
Just listened to it.  
Keith : 6/14/2017 12:58 pm : link
He absolutely has no point and he came accross like such an ahole and reassured me why I stopped listening to him 10 years ago. He didn't let Kim respond to anything that came out of his fat stupid mouth. Nothing he said was on point and nothing he said was accurate. Everything about this situation is Francessa having a bone to pick with OBJ.
My beef with Odell is simple  
Joey in VA : 6/14/2017 1:22 pm : link
He says one thing and does another. He's been off since February and has appeared very publicly at the NCAA title game, the NBA Finals, tours with Drake and all over instagram with various celebrities. Then he goes on to say he's going to do everything he can to win and win over the fans and on and on and on. So he has two chances to show that he means it and he bails on both to do his own thing. That's absolutely his right, the Duke camp was informal, the OTAs are all by rights not much help to anyone but rookies or first year players. Does he need the work? Probably not. Can he and Eli draw up a play in the dirt and win a game in one play? Yep and they have.

He's a leader of this team because of his immense talent but he projects this image of loving celebrity and shunning teammates. Does it have an actual on the field impact? No, it mostly won't matter once the season commences but you have a locker room full of people looking to you to lead this team to the playoffs and make a run. Being with them should be job #1. It was TEN days of OTAs and what 3-4 at Duke? So in 4.5 months or about 135 days, he couldn't spare 15? 15 of 135 days is too much to ask? It would have ruined his training regimen? By doing all of this he makes it a story, creates a distraction and generates headlines that he wishes to silence. So is he self sabotaging his image with the idea that he'll show everyone this year? Maybe. I personally don't think he's bright enough to do that but he is probably narcissistic enough to and he wouldn't be the first athlete to seek the spotlight and churn up the press only to ask them to quiet down.

I don't think he's a bad teammate on the field or in the locker room, I don't think missing those 15 days is a crime and I applaud his desire to improve and grow. From his little petri dish though, he doesn't SEE what his actions are doing and they have a negative impact. Every question every teammate and coach has to answer about where Waldo may be chips away at the team and eventually it will take a toll if he drops a pass or gets flagged for something stupid and he will. To tolerate his on the field histrionics he has to produce, and he will but to grow with his team he has show them that he's not above them and he hasn't.
If you think odell's behavior is OK  
gmenatlarge : 6/14/2017 1:35 pm : link
then you just don't get it...
RE: LT made OBJ look like a choir boy  
gmenatlarge : 6/14/2017 1:36 pm : link
In comment 13499694 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
Just there was no social media back them. So people were not posting photos of Lawrence in the crack house at 5 AM.

And just to clear, as a fan, what LT did was his own business because he showed up on Sunday and raised his teammates to another level, where they would not have been without him.

Odell did not show up in Green Bay.

If you are going to be the big media star, show up on game day in the playoffs. Put the team on your back and will them to victory. Because that is what LT did

amen to that!
I mean...  
Josh in the City : 6/14/2017 1:50 pm : link
I'm listening to it right, and I don't particularly like Francessa, but he's 100000% right about OBJ and Kim Jones even gave into him on most of his points. Francessa is right about OBJ...he shouldn't have skipped the breakfast, he shouldn't have skipped voluntary OTA's, and he shouldn't be comparing himself to Lebron James when he was horrendous in the biggest and only playoff game of his life. Reese told OBJ to grow up this offseason and he's proven he hasn't in every opportunity he's had so far. When you're a superstar in this league, you need to be a role model for your teammates and lead by example. He hasn't proven a willingness to do any of that...end of story.
RE: My beef with Odell is simple  
Devon : 6/14/2017 1:52 pm : link
In comment 13499851 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
He says one thing and does another. He's been off since February and has appeared very publicly at the NCAA title game, the NBA Finals, tours with Drake and all over instagram with various celebrities. Then he goes on to say he's going to do everything he can to win and win over the fans and on and on and on. So he has two chances to show that he means it and he bails on both to do his own thing. That's absolutely his right, the Duke camp was informal, the OTAs are all by rights not much help to anyone but rookies or first year players. Does he need the work? Probably not. Can he and Eli draw up a play in the dirt and win a game in one play? Yep and they have.

He's a leader of this team because of his immense talent but he projects this image of loving celebrity and shunning teammates. Does it have an actual on the field impact? No, it mostly won't matter once the season commences but you have a locker room full of people looking to you to lead this team to the playoffs and make a run. Being with them should be job #1. It was TEN days of OTAs and what 3-4 at Duke? So in 4.5 months or about 135 days, he couldn't spare 15? 15 of 135 days is too much to ask? It would have ruined his training regimen? By doing all of this he makes it a story, creates a distraction and generates headlines that he wishes to silence. So is he self sabotaging his image with the idea that he'll show everyone this year? Maybe. I personally don't think he's bright enough to do that but he is probably narcissistic enough to and he wouldn't be the first athlete to seek the spotlight and churn up the press only to ask them to quiet down.

I don't think he's a bad teammate on the field or in the locker room, I don't think missing those 15 days is a crime and I applaud his desire to improve and grow. From his little petri dish though, he doesn't SEE what his actions are doing and they have a negative impact. Every question every teammate and coach has to answer about where Waldo may be chips away at the team and eventually it will take a toll if he drops a pass or gets flagged for something stupid and he will. To tolerate his on the field histrionics he has to produce, and he will but to grow with his team he has show them that he's not above them and he hasn't.


He doesn't want to silence a single headline and nothing about his image has been sabotaged.

He'll talk about wanting it, but the reason he'll put something out on social media to get the buzz cookin then turn right around and deny it or have Cris Carter taking a shot at his WR coach publicly or wear cleats telling the media off is because it all generates major attention. Any attention, few exceptions, is good for stardom in this current era. This entire OTA thing has been great for his brand and exposure with how much coverage it has gotten, far better than actually showing up would have. You may not think he's smart enough to think that way for whatever reason, but the people he's got around him definitely are.

As for his teammates, oh well. They'll survive. They know how stars play these games now. Most aren't as in their feelings about it as some fans get.
Mike wasn't right when he doesn't know or isn't willing to  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 6/14/2017 1:53 pm : link
acknowledge the difference between the words mandatory and voluntary. He tried to make an asinine point about how some coaches wouldn't "allow" that, which Kim rightfully pointed out was horseshit. And that's especially true of a player of Beckham's caliber.
RE: RE: My beef with Odell is simple  
Joey in VA : 6/14/2017 1:54 pm : link
In comment 13499921 Devon said:
Quote:
In comment 13499851 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


He says one thing and does another. He's been off since February and has appeared very publicly at the NCAA title game, the NBA Finals, tours with Drake and all over instagram with various celebrities. Then he goes on to say he's going to do everything he can to win and win over the fans and on and on and on. So he has two chances to show that he means it and he bails on both to do his own thing. That's absolutely his right, the Duke camp was informal, the OTAs are all by rights not much help to anyone but rookies or first year players. Does he need the work? Probably not. Can he and Eli draw up a play in the dirt and win a game in one play? Yep and they have.

He's a leader of this team because of his immense talent but he projects this image of loving celebrity and shunning teammates. Does it have an actual on the field impact? No, it mostly won't matter once the season commences but you have a locker room full of people looking to you to lead this team to the playoffs and make a run. Being with them should be job #1. It was TEN days of OTAs and what 3-4 at Duke? So in 4.5 months or about 135 days, he couldn't spare 15? 15 of 135 days is too much to ask? It would have ruined his training regimen? By doing all of this he makes it a story, creates a distraction and generates headlines that he wishes to silence. So is he self sabotaging his image with the idea that he'll show everyone this year? Maybe. I personally don't think he's bright enough to do that but he is probably narcissistic enough to and he wouldn't be the first athlete to seek the spotlight and churn up the press only to ask them to quiet down.

I don't think he's a bad teammate on the field or in the locker room, I don't think missing those 15 days is a crime and I applaud his desire to improve and grow. From his little petri dish though, he doesn't SEE what his actions are doing and they have a negative impact. Every question every teammate and coach has to answer about where Waldo may be chips away at the team and eventually it will take a toll if he drops a pass or gets flagged for something stupid and he will. To tolerate his on the field histrionics he has to produce, and he will but to grow with his team he has show them that he's not above them and he hasn't.



He doesn't want to silence a single headline and nothing about his image has been sabotaged.

He'll talk about wanting it, but the reason he'll put something out on social media to get the buzz cookin then turn right around and deny it or have Cris Carter taking a shot at his WR coach publicly or wear cleats telling the media off is because it all generates major attention. Any attention, few exceptions, is good for stardom in this current era. This entire OTA thing has been great for his brand and exposure with how much coverage it has gotten, far better than actually showing up would have. You may not think he's smart enough to think that way for whatever reason, but the people he's got around him definitely are.

As for his teammates, oh well. They'll survive. They know how stars play these games now. Most aren't as in their feelings about it as some fans get.
Exactly, it' all been great for his celebrity which he values more than the game. How that's good for this team's title chances is beyond me.
Odell really can't win  
LCtheINTMachine : 6/14/2017 2:01 pm : link
Even if wins a title or two or three, people will hate on him. Look at Kevin Durant - Finals MVP and a Hall of Famer and people hate him. Lebron James - people hate him.

Odell knows this so he is going to do what he has to do. Yes he should be building his brand because he makes more money off that than what the Giants pay him. I would bang Instagram models and party with Bieber too if people threw money at me to do it, I'm not stupid.
RE: If you think odell's behavior is OK  
Klaatu : 6/14/2017 2:03 pm : link
In comment 13499891 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
then you just don't get it...


Get what?

Did he show up to camp when he was supposed to show up? Yes.

Was he in shape when he showed up? Yes.

Is he practicing with his teammates? Yes.

That's it. Everything else is media-driven nonsense promulgated by folks who need something to write or talk about.

You know who "doesn't get it?" Anyone concerned about "bad optics."
Guys blowing off commitments  
joeinpa : 6/14/2017 2:05 pm : link
Is a sign of immaturity and disrespect. Some if you seem to think Mike s irritation on the issue is not justified.
It's not justified because it's self serving  
Keith : 6/14/2017 2:07 pm : link
like everything else that fat blohard does and says.

Blowing something off means he didn't show up. Yes or no...He informed them before the event that he wasn't going?
RE: RE: RE: My beef with Odell is simple  
Devon : 6/14/2017 2:09 pm : link
In comment 13499925 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13499921 Devon said:


Quote:


In comment 13499851 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


He says one thing and does another. He's been off since February and has appeared very publicly at the NCAA title game, the NBA Finals, tours with Drake and all over instagram with various celebrities. Then he goes on to say he's going to do everything he can to win and win over the fans and on and on and on. So he has two chances to show that he means it and he bails on both to do his own thing. That's absolutely his right, the Duke camp was informal, the OTAs are all by rights not much help to anyone but rookies or first year players. Does he need the work? Probably not. Can he and Eli draw up a play in the dirt and win a game in one play? Yep and they have.

He's a leader of this team because of his immense talent but he projects this image of loving celebrity and shunning teammates. Does it have an actual on the field impact? No, it mostly won't matter once the season commences but you have a locker room full of people looking to you to lead this team to the playoffs and make a run. Being with them should be job #1. It was TEN days of OTAs and what 3-4 at Duke? So in 4.5 months or about 135 days, he couldn't spare 15? 15 of 135 days is too much to ask? It would have ruined his training regimen? By doing all of this he makes it a story, creates a distraction and generates headlines that he wishes to silence. So is he self sabotaging his image with the idea that he'll show everyone this year? Maybe. I personally don't think he's bright enough to do that but he is probably narcissistic enough to and he wouldn't be the first athlete to seek the spotlight and churn up the press only to ask them to quiet down.

I don't think he's a bad teammate on the field or in the locker room, I don't think missing those 15 days is a crime and I applaud his desire to improve and grow. From his little petri dish though, he doesn't SEE what his actions are doing and they have a negative impact. Every question every teammate and coach has to answer about where Waldo may be chips away at the team and eventually it will take a toll if he drops a pass or gets flagged for something stupid and he will. To tolerate his on the field histrionics he has to produce, and he will but to grow with his team he has show them that he's not above them and he hasn't.



He doesn't want to silence a single headline and nothing about his image has been sabotaged.

He'll talk about wanting it, but the reason he'll put something out on social media to get the buzz cookin then turn right around and deny it or have Cris Carter taking a shot at his WR coach publicly or wear cleats telling the media off is because it all generates major attention. Any attention, few exceptions, is good for stardom in this current era. This entire OTA thing has been great for his brand and exposure with how much coverage it has gotten, far better than actually showing up would have. You may not think he's smart enough to think that way for whatever reason, but the people he's got around him definitely are.

As for his teammates, oh well. They'll survive. They know how stars play these games now. Most aren't as in their feelings about it as some fans get.

Exactly, it' all been great for his celebrity which he values more than the game. How that's good for this team's title chances is beyond me.


Beckham being a great player is good for this team's title chances.

None of his attention whoring subtracts from how he's the best player, between the lines, the Giants have. It hasn't gotten him out of shape or hurt production in any way.
well, even Chris Carter isn't sold on Beckham ever "getting it"  
Victor in CT : 6/14/2017 2:10 pm : link
His quotes in Myers column this morning are skeptical:

“The way he’s reacted, letting Josh Norman get him off his game, the other things that get him off his game that he doesn’t need to do,” Carter told the Daily News. “When LeBron was in Cleveland, he was in high school. When he went to Miami, that was college. Now LeBron is in graduate school back in Cleveland. Odell went to college and it’s been an education in New York. How does he get to where LeBron is now and get to graduate school and grow up without changing the venue?”


Odell Beckham needs to focus on maturity before big money — and Cris Carter knows it - ( New Window )
What a load of crap.  
Keith : 6/14/2017 2:16 pm : link
Nowhere in that article does it say Carter is skeptical of Odell "getting it". All he is saying is that Odell needs to work on the mental aspect of his game and he is.
Victor, I don't know how you got that notion  
David in LA : 6/14/2017 2:33 pm : link
I didn't get a hint of skepticism, all I saw was Carter saying he has a bit more to go to get to the next level in the process.
RE: RE: RE: RE: My beef with Odell is simple  
Joey in VA : 6/14/2017 2:46 pm : link
In comment 13499962 Devon said:
Quote:
In comment 13499925 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 13499921 Devon said:


Quote:


In comment 13499851 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


He says one thing and does another. He's been off since February and has appeared very publicly at the NCAA title game, the NBA Finals, tours with Drake and all over instagram with various celebrities. Then he goes on to say he's going to do everything he can to win and win over the fans and on and on and on. So he has two chances to show that he means it and he bails on both to do his own thing. That's absolutely his right, the Duke camp was informal, the OTAs are all by rights not much help to anyone but rookies or first year players. Does he need the work? Probably not. Can he and Eli draw up a play in the dirt and win a game in one play? Yep and they have.

He's a leader of this team because of his immense talent but he projects this image of loving celebrity and shunning teammates. Does it have an actual on the field impact? No, it mostly won't matter once the season commences but you have a locker room full of people looking to you to lead this team to the playoffs and make a run. Being with them should be job #1. It was TEN days of OTAs and what 3-4 at Duke? So in 4.5 months or about 135 days, he couldn't spare 15? 15 of 135 days is too much to ask? It would have ruined his training regimen? By doing all of this he makes it a story, creates a distraction and generates headlines that he wishes to silence. So is he self sabotaging his image with the idea that he'll show everyone this year? Maybe. I personally don't think he's bright enough to do that but he is probably narcissistic enough to and he wouldn't be the first athlete to seek the spotlight and churn up the press only to ask them to quiet down.

I don't think he's a bad teammate on the field or in the locker room, I don't think missing those 15 days is a crime and I applaud his desire to improve and grow. From his little petri dish though, he doesn't SEE what his actions are doing and they have a negative impact. Every question every teammate and coach has to answer about where Waldo may be chips away at the team and eventually it will take a toll if he drops a pass or gets flagged for something stupid and he will. To tolerate his on the field histrionics he has to produce, and he will but to grow with his team he has show them that he's not above them and he hasn't.



He doesn't want to silence a single headline and nothing about his image has been sabotaged.

He'll talk about wanting it, but the reason he'll put something out on social media to get the buzz cookin then turn right around and deny it or have Cris Carter taking a shot at his WR coach publicly or wear cleats telling the media off is because it all generates major attention. Any attention, few exceptions, is good for stardom in this current era. This entire OTA thing has been great for his brand and exposure with how much coverage it has gotten, far better than actually showing up would have. You may not think he's smart enough to think that way for whatever reason, but the people he's got around him definitely are.

As for his teammates, oh well. They'll survive. They know how stars play these games now. Most aren't as in their feelings about it as some fans get.

Exactly, it' all been great for his celebrity which he values more than the game. How that's good for this team's title chances is beyond me.



Beckham being a great player is good for this team's title chances.

None of his attention whoring subtracts from how he's the best player, between the lines, the Giants have. It hasn't gotten him out of shape or hurt production in any way.
Dude, I'm not worried about Odell, he'll perform. He's a lights out football player, I never at any time dispute that. A team with title hopes has to be focused, this lessens that focus. How about we agree it's not optimal from an approach standpoint as it relates to his team? I get the branding thing, I want these guys to rake in the bucks because they do put it all out there on Sundays but a little more team and a little less ME wouldn't kill the guy. That's all I'm saying. I'm not terribly bent out of shape by all of it, I just prefer it went differently, why is that such a difficult thing for people to grasp? By people I'm not pointing at you btw, I say one thing and the usual cast of clowns invokes my name on other threads to be cute which is fine, they need an outlet for their middling intelligence and absence of humor.

I guess I"m looking at from a perfect scenario standpoint, and perhaps I shouldn't. In a perfect world he flies back for OTAs, goes to Duke and shows that his team matters. That's all my point really is. Every little bit helps and in a league where games can turn on a play and every season has moments that can possibly define it, I want as much on my side as possible. Is that such an outrageous position to take?
Joey  
BigBlueShock : 6/14/2017 2:47 pm : link
It seems your problem should be with the over bearing media moreso than OBJ. Why should he go about things based on how the media will react? Screw them. Of course they are looking for a story. And will create one at every turn. Players can't make decisions based on media backlash. Blame the media for asking 6 million questions about why OBJ didn't attend the voluntary workouts and making a big story about it. Neither him nor the Giants should give a rats ass what those clowns think. And neither should we.
RE: Joey  
Joey in VA : 6/14/2017 3:06 pm : link
In comment 13500031 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
It seems your problem should be with the over bearing media moreso than OBJ. Why should he go about things based on how the media will react? Screw them. Of course they are looking for a story. And will create one at every turn. Players can't make decisions based on media backlash. Blame the media for asking 6 million questions about why OBJ didn't attend the voluntary workouts and making a big story about it. Neither him nor the Giants should give a rats ass what those clowns think. And neither should we.
Trust me, I don't like that band of hacks either (Kim Jones and Ranaan aside) especially Serby and the ding dongs at the Daily News.
RE: Didn't Francesa have beefs  
santacruzom : 6/14/2017 3:07 pm : link
In comment 13499501 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
with Stray & Shockey? Once he has an opinion of you, it's pretty hard for Big Mike to admit he was wrong.


So... he's a sports fan?
RE: RE: RE: My beef with Odell is simple  
djm : 6/14/2017 7:48 pm : link
In comment 13499925 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13499921 Devon said:


Quote:


In comment 13499851 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


He says one thing and does another. He's been off since February and has appeared very publicly at the NCAA title game, the NBA Finals, tours with Drake and all over instagram with various celebrities. Then he goes on to say he's going to do everything he can to win and win over the fans and on and on and on. So he has two chances to show that he means it and he bails on both to do his own thing. That's absolutely his right, the Duke camp was informal, the OTAs are all by rights not much help to anyone but rookies or first year players. Does he need the work? Probably not. Can he and Eli draw up a play in the dirt and win a game in one play? Yep and they have.

He's a leader of this team because of his immense talent but he projects this image of loving celebrity and shunning teammates. Does it have an actual on the field impact? No, it mostly won't matter once the season commences but you have a locker room full of people looking to you to lead this team to the playoffs and make a run. Being with them should be job #1. It was TEN days of OTAs and what 3-4 at Duke? So in 4.5 months or about 135 days, he couldn't spare 15? 15 of 135 days is too much to ask? It would have ruined his training regimen? By doing all of this he makes it a story, creates a distraction and generates headlines that he wishes to silence. So is he self sabotaging his image with the idea that he'll show everyone this year? Maybe. I personally don't think he's bright enough to do that but he is probably narcissistic enough to and he wouldn't be the first athlete to seek the spotlight and churn up the press only to ask them to quiet down.

I don't think he's a bad teammate on the field or in the locker room, I don't think missing those 15 days is a crime and I applaud his desire to improve and grow. From his little petri dish though, he doesn't SEE what his actions are doing and they have a negative impact. Every question every teammate and coach has to answer about where Waldo may be chips away at the team and eventually it will take a toll if he drops a pass or gets flagged for something stupid and he will. To tolerate his on the field histrionics he has to produce, and he will but to grow with his team he has show them that he's not above them and he hasn't.



He doesn't want to silence a single headline and nothing about his image has been sabotaged.

He'll talk about wanting it, but the reason he'll put something out on social media to get the buzz cookin then turn right around and deny it or have Cris Carter taking a shot at his WR coach publicly or wear cleats telling the media off is because it all generates major attention. Any attention, few exceptions, is good for stardom in this current era. This entire OTA thing has been great for his brand and exposure with how much coverage it has gotten, far better than actually showing up would have. You may not think he's smart enough to think that way for whatever reason, but the people he's got around him definitely are.

As for his teammates, oh well. They'll survive. They know how stars play these games now. Most aren't as in their feelings about it as some fans get.

Exactly, it' all been great for his celebrity which he values more than the game. How that's good for this team's title chances is beyond me.


Odell values his own celebrity more than the game?

Really.

Bullshit.
I say bullshit  
djm : 6/14/2017 7:54 pm : link
Because it's just that. Bullshit. All of it. We don't know shit about Beckham other than what we see on the field and what social media vomits out to us. How can anyone sit here and say that a guy who has lit the NFL on fire with his play doesn't care about the game? Why? Because he's went to Miami a week before the game or that he got caught? You guys realize that many of these nfl stars live a pretty wild lifestyle but not all of them are watched and scrutinized as closely as Beckham is?

LT cared sooooo much about the game unless he was drunk and cracked out 14 hours before kickoff. Gimme a break already. You think you know a player. You don't.

Whatever I'm done with this stupid childish debate. Hopefully Beckham lasts a long time and stays healthy. That's all that matters.
RE: And all of that aside..  
micky : 6/14/2017 7:55 pm : link
In comment 13499568 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
still doesn't mean he isn't a great player.

Terrell Owens was a great player. Micheal Irvin was a great player. Jeremy Shockey was a great player.

Beckham is a side-show, mostly fueled by the Media, and he is a great WR.

To say Mike F. isn't completely off base by saying he's explosive and not great is just flat out wrong.


Shocked was good..not great imo
RE: RE: And all of that aside..  
micky : 6/14/2017 7:56 pm : link
In comment 13500322 micky said:
Quote:
In comment 13499568 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


still doesn't mean he isn't a great player.

Terrell Owens was a great player. Micheal Irvin was a great player. Jeremy Shockey was a great player.

Beckham is a side-show, mostly fueled by the Media, and he is a great WR.

To say Mike F. isn't completely off base by saying he's explosive and not great is just flat out wrong.



Shocked was good..not great imo


Shockey
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: My beef with Odell is simple  
arcarsenal : 6/14/2017 9:23 pm : link
In comment 13500029 Joey in VA said:
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In comment 13499962 Devon said:


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In comment 13499925 Joey in VA said:


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In comment 13499921 Devon said:


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In comment 13499851 Joey in VA said:


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He says one thing and does another. He's been off since February and has appeared very publicly at the NCAA title game, the NBA Finals, tours with Drake and all over instagram with various celebrities. Then he goes on to say he's going to do everything he can to win and win over the fans and on and on and on. So he has two chances to show that he means it and he bails on both to do his own thing. That's absolutely his right, the Duke camp was informal, the OTAs are all by rights not much help to anyone but rookies or first year players. Does he need the work? Probably not. Can he and Eli draw up a play in the dirt and win a game in one play? Yep and they have.

He's a leader of this team because of his immense talent but he projects this image of loving celebrity and shunning teammates. Does it have an actual on the field impact? No, it mostly won't matter once the season commences but you have a locker room full of people looking to you to lead this team to the playoffs and make a run. Being with them should be job #1. It was TEN days of OTAs and what 3-4 at Duke? So in 4.5 months or about 135 days, he couldn't spare 15? 15 of 135 days is too much to ask? It would have ruined his training regimen? By doing all of this he makes it a story, creates a distraction and generates headlines that he wishes to silence. So is he self sabotaging his image with the idea that he'll show everyone this year? Maybe. I personally don't think he's bright enough to do that but he is probably narcissistic enough to and he wouldn't be the first athlete to seek the spotlight and churn up the press only to ask them to quiet down.

I don't think he's a bad teammate on the field or in the locker room, I don't think missing those 15 days is a crime and I applaud his desire to improve and grow. From his little petri dish though, he doesn't SEE what his actions are doing and they have a negative impact. Every question every teammate and coach has to answer about where Waldo may be chips away at the team and eventually it will take a toll if he drops a pass or gets flagged for something stupid and he will. To tolerate his on the field histrionics he has to produce, and he will but to grow with his team he has show them that he's not above them and he hasn't.



He doesn't want to silence a single headline and nothing about his image has been sabotaged.

He'll talk about wanting it, but the reason he'll put something out on social media to get the buzz cookin then turn right around and deny it or have Cris Carter taking a shot at his WR coach publicly or wear cleats telling the media off is because it all generates major attention. Any attention, few exceptions, is good for stardom in this current era. This entire OTA thing has been great for his brand and exposure with how much coverage it has gotten, far better than actually showing up would have. You may not think he's smart enough to think that way for whatever reason, but the people he's got around him definitely are.

As for his teammates, oh well. They'll survive. They know how stars play these games now. Most aren't as in their feelings about it as some fans get.

Exactly, it' all been great for his celebrity which he values more than the game. How that's good for this team's title chances is beyond me.



Beckham being a great player is good for this team's title chances.

None of his attention whoring subtracts from how he's the best player, between the lines, the Giants have. It hasn't gotten him out of shape or hurt production in any way.

Dude, I'm not worried about Odell, he'll perform. He's a lights out football player, I never at any time dispute that. A team with title hopes has to be focused, this lessens that focus. How about we agree it's not optimal from an approach standpoint as it relates to his team? I get the branding thing, I want these guys to rake in the bucks because they do put it all out there on Sundays but a little more team and a little less ME wouldn't kill the guy. That's all I'm saying. I'm not terribly bent out of shape by all of it, I just prefer it went differently, why is that such a difficult thing for people to grasp? By people I'm not pointing at you btw, I say one thing and the usual cast of clowns invokes my name on other threads to be cute which is fine, they need an outlet for their middling intelligence and absence of humor.

I guess I"m looking at from a perfect scenario standpoint, and perhaps I shouldn't. In a perfect world he flies back for OTAs, goes to Duke and shows that his team matters. That's all my point really is. Every little bit helps and in a league where games can turn on a play and every season has moments that can possibly define it, I want as much on my side as possible. Is that such an outrageous position to take?


It's actually not outrageous at all, and I think at the core, every Giants fan would pick that if they have a choice.

I just never thought calling people "fucking losers" for not thinking it's a huge deal made any sense, personally.
Shockey..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/14/2017 10:16 pm : link
was:
- 2 time Super Bowl winner
- 4 time Pro Bowler
- First team All-Pro
- Winner of first ever Diet Pepsi Rookie of the Year Award

I think he was more than just good.
.  
Go Terps : 6/14/2017 10:34 pm : link
The offense also improved once Shockey was removed from the picture. Shockey was a good player. Maybe even great. But saying that doesn't tell the whole story.

I don't know if or how his story applies to Beckham. I think better cautionary tales can be found with our own stable of injured receiver in recent years, and with Dez Bryant who put up three years every bit as good as Beckham's. He got paid, got hurt, and now Dallas is vastly overpaying a player that hasn't been very productive in two seasons.

And despite what the sycophant Instagram followers in the Beckham throwbacks say, it's not out of line to consider the possibility that Beckham might either be a lousy teammate now or could become one during the life of what is sure to be an enormous contract.
Shockey  
crick n NC : 6/14/2017 10:39 pm : link
Got off to a great start, but he fizzled. I do not consider him amongst the greats, even at his position. He was a very good player
.  
arcarsenal : 6/14/2017 11:04 pm : link
Don't forget.. Shockey is a SB champ and scored a TD in the SB as well.

So, for all of the people who try that whole "divas never win" BS.. Shockey is another check mark in the "not true" box.
Actually the giants offense didn't improve when shockey got hurt  
djm : 6/14/2017 11:07 pm : link
They did score 30 plus in the two games that followed his injury but they didn't exactly set the world on fire in that postseason, offensively. Why are we even talking about shockey? One has nothing to do with the other but just for shits I'd like To remind you shockey haters that he helped the giants win 11 games in 2005. Helped them sneak into the playoffs in 2006 and he helped them get to a winning record by December of 2007. In other words, shockey was a big part of those teams that enabled coughlin to stick around here. Wrap that around your brain for a minute and try not to have a seizure. The giants did well without him so maybe he wasn't worth the trouble but you don't know that. I think he was a very good player who took a beating and ran out of steam a little too soon. I think his on the field antics that many cried about were overstated.

We don't make the playoffs without Beckham last year. We need him. He's a ridiculously good NFL WR. He's a little weird on and off the field but he's worth coddling. He's worth the slight annoyances and really, he's done very little wrong. Some Of you are drama queens. You continue to feed the beast.
djm...  
arcarsenal : 6/14/2017 11:46 pm : link
The Giants winning the SB without Shockey/Tiki led a lot of people to draw the conclusion that those two were losing players that were dragging the team down.

I really don't believe either would have precluded NYG from winning in 2007 if they had been healthy or still on the roster.

Shockey was certainly a bit immature and Barber's ego was always a bit inflated, but Barber was also the best RB in Giants history and was still at his peak at that point in time so I really doubt the team won because he (or Shockey) were gone.

If anything, the offense probably wouldn't have had to lean on the defense as much to get through those playoffs.

All hypotheticals, though. I obviously can't prove any of that. I just don't believe Beckham is a "losing player" which some here have referred to him as.

When people talk about "addition by subtraction," I certainly don't believe this is a case where that would apply.
Addition by subtraction is a tough thing to hang on a player  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/15/2017 12:58 pm : link
Not forcing the ball to Larry D so he can fumble it away is certainly addition by subtraction.

Shockey made plays. It's not like he didn't give you anything. I suppose one could argue that having a player who was a better route runner may have been a better fit, and maybe not having him around to make Eli's life a little more difficult helped, but who really knows?
RE: Kim Jones covers the Giants for the NFL Network.  
Craigg619 : 6/15/2017 1:09 pm : link
In comment 13499697 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Anyone who doesn't care what she "thinks or says" is a fool. Anyone who would elevate Francessa over her when it comes to the Giants is twice a fool.


Agreed 1000%.

I think she's amazing. Been on of the best since she started. Hell I'd be beyond elated if she took over Francesca's spot next year. She's a smart cookie.
If Shockey doesn't get hurt we don't win that Super Bowl  
Go Terps : 6/15/2017 1:13 pm : link
I believe that 100%.
RE: If Shockey doesn't get hurt we don't win that Super Bowl  
djm : 6/15/2017 7:16 pm : link
In comment 13501005 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I believe that 100%.


100% ??

Ok. I am not crazy enough to say one way or the other that shockey's injury definitely was or wasn't a factor. I'm not going to change a thing about January 2008 if I had the chance to do it again that's for sure. Everything clicked just right. That still doesn't mean that shockey wasn't a winning player. He didn't hurt the saints that's for sure. But you knew that.

Still means nothing when discussing Beckham.
RE: If Shockey doesn't get hurt we don't win that Super Bowl  
arcarsenal : 6/15/2017 7:19 pm : link
In comment 13501005 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I believe that 100%.


C'mon, there's no possible way to know that.

And he won a Super Bowl 2 years later.. so clearly he wasn't a guy you couldn't win with.

You may have hated Plax and Shockey but the bottom line is that both guys have rings on their fingers and both guys were on the receiving end of big TD passes in Super Bowls.

The whole "losing player" thing is largely a myth and BS fan narrative that gets made up when people don't like player personalities.
You could just as easily say  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/15/2017 7:22 pm : link
if Shockey is healthy maybe that game isn't a tightrope walk down to the final seconds.
Shockey and Plax  
Go Terps : 6/15/2017 7:49 pm : link
There's obviously no way to prove that we would have been better or worse off with Shockey instead of Boss.

What we DO know is that Shockey freelanced on his routes, or just plain fucked them up. He was also a pain in the ass on the sideline and in the huddle, and gave Eli shit when he didn't get him the ball. This has been corroborated by multiple sources over the years.

Much of the same (and worse) can be said about Plax...some of it extending off the field and involving guns (the incident shortly after he was signed, linked below) and obviously when he shot himself and ruined what could have been a Super Bowl season. Let's not forget Steve Smith's quote about Plax barely showing up to practice, dozens of team fines, suspensions, as well as the incident the night before the Super Bowl where Plax supposedly "slipped in the shower" and injured himself.

Shockey and Plax are two of the most talented players to ever play for the Giants. But if you think that that shit I listed above (none of which is made up or my own conjecture) doesn't hurt a team then we have a completely different interpretation of what comprises a team and what it means to be a good teammate.

In the case of Shockey, Kevin Boss may have had a fraction of the talent but he could be trusted to do his job...which made him a better football player for the Giants in 2007. The Giants then traded away Shockey even though Boss was a fraction of the physical player.

Look in any group as large as a football team you're going to get some assholes. But there's a point where the guy goes beyond being an asshole and becomes a problem. Both Shockey and Plax passed that point.

djm...the reason these two guys get brought up (and it wasn't by me) in relation to Beckham is that the feeling is Beckham could also pass that point. I don't think he's past that point now...I just think he's an asshole...but it doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to see him cross the line from "asshole" to "problem". And anyone that doesn't see that potential is being obtuse, because as I have said about BBI before: if Beckham were on the Philadelphia Eagles EVERY SINGLE FUCKING POSTER would call him a gaping asshole. Every single one.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Shockey and Plax  
Tesla : 6/15/2017 7:56 pm : link
In comment 13501369 Go Terps said:
Quote:

And anyone that doesn't see that potential is being obtuse, because as I have said about BBI before: if Beckham were on the Philadelphia Eagles EVERY SINGLE FUCKING POSTER would call him a gaping asshole. Every single one. Link - ( New Window )


Without malice, you are coming across as a really weird dude when it comes to OBJ. The passion with which you hate this kid is not healthy....and to be honest pretty weird.
arc  
Go Terps : 6/15/2017 8:09 pm : link
And if this were true:

Quote:
The whole "losing player" thing is largely a myth and BS fan narrative that gets made up when people don't like player personalities.


...explain Terrell Owens and Randy Moss. Both of those guys were all-time talented (and productive) wide receivers. Then why did each guy play for five different teams? Why is it that when NFL Films shot "A Football Life" for Terrell Owens they could not get any of Jeff Garcia, Tony Romo, or Donovan McNabb to participate?

Why did Randy Moss get traded at the age of 27 after a season where he caught 13 TDs? Why was he traded by Bill Belichick a year after putting up 83/1264/13?

Better players than Odell Beckham have screwed up teams and worn out welcomes by being lousy teammates. It's not a made up fan narrative.
OBJ has not been known to routinely take plays off like Moss  
David in LA : 6/15/2017 8:14 pm : link
He's not even in the same universe as TO when it comes to being a distraction or divisive force in the locker room. The only similarities those guys share is being incredibly talented.
RE: OBJ has not been known to routinely take plays off like Moss  
Go Terps : 6/15/2017 8:17 pm : link
In comment 13501375 David in LA said:
Quote:
He's not even in the same universe as TO when it comes to being a distraction or divisive force in the locker room. The only similarities those guys share is being incredibly talented.


He hasn't been yet, but are you honestly telling me you don't see any potential of it happening?
TO is a pretty bad example, lots of eagles would have preferred to  
GMenLTS : 6/15/2017 8:19 pm : link
keep him over mcnabb at the time.

And Moss was a fingertip away from capping off the perfect season in 2007.

Moss's work ethic issues are certainly a large part of why he went all over the place but TO's work ethic was never in doubt, he was just an asshole and regularly undermined his QBs.

Odell has never once given any indication that he will undermine Eli. He's had his young, immature moments to be sure. Some could even argue he's an asshole and I won't argue against it (I happen to think until further notice, it's young immaturity, that could turn into total asshole but we're not there yet)

Lastly, who cares if we would think he's an asshole if he were on the eagles? He's a giant. That alternate reality is completely irrelevant.
LTS  
Go Terps : 6/15/2017 8:23 pm : link
I think it's completely relevant, because fans tend to have a clearer view of a player when they aren't wearing his jersey.
RE: RE: OBJ has not been known to routinely take plays off like Moss  
David in LA : 6/15/2017 8:23 pm : link
In comment 13501376 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13501375 David in LA said:


Quote:


He's not even in the same universe as TO when it comes to being a distraction or divisive force in the locker room. The only similarities those guys share is being incredibly talented.



He hasn't been yet, but are you honestly telling me you don't see any potential of it happening?


The guy works too hard to be taking plays off like Moss used to. The guy's motor is running all the time on the field. Don't really see him going the TO route either. His infractions have been small potatoes aside from the Norman thing, and that stemmed from the refs letting things escalate the way they did.
RE: RE: OBJ has not been known to routinely take plays off like Moss  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/15/2017 8:24 pm : link
In comment 13501376 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13501375 David in LA said:


Quote:


He's not even in the same universe as TO when it comes to being a distraction or divisive force in the locker room. The only similarities those guys share is being incredibly talented.



He hasn't been yet, but are you honestly telling me you don't see any potential of it happening?


lmao

now we're going to start worrying about pre-crime. This is healthy.
The whole Eagles thing is stupid too  
David in LA : 6/15/2017 8:24 pm : link
I think Desean is a punk, but at the same time, when he used to routinely burn us, I wish we had a weapon like him. Now we have someone that is MUCH better.
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