Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

NFT: Rangers Buy out Dan Girardi

Deej : 6/14/2017 1:11 pm
Per official team tweet.
Pages: 1 2 3 <<Prev | Show All |
RE: RE: I just read that the cap may rise to 77.5?  
Davisian : 6/14/2017 5:54 pm : link
In comment 13500231 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 13500209 Davisian said:


Quote:


That would be sweet.




Might be able to fit Marleau with Kovalchuk and Thornton then. #shiny

BTW, why do you like Greenway so much? Don't know anything about him.


From the world Jr.'s tourney. He was a beast among boys there, and it seems like the guys who shine in that tournament end up being pretty good NHL'ers.

of course, I haven't seen much of him beyond that so some scouting opinions may very, but he strikes me as a Lucic/Simmonds type, but bigger and faster.



Greenway really shown at world juniors  
Kyle in NY : 6/14/2017 6:00 pm : link
Looked like a big man who actually played big (pjcas alert). Off the top of my head I think he was a 2nd round pick. So maybe the natural talent is good, not great. So perhaps the second piece in a Stepan deal.

Stepan for Greenway + Dumba, I'm not keen to move Stepan but that's a deal I'd do. Would clear cap and provide young talent. Shades of a Brassard deal

RE: RE: RE: I just read that the cap may rise to 77.5?  
Deej : 6/14/2017 6:08 pm : link
In comment 13500233 Davisian said:
Quote:
In comment 13500231 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


In comment 13500209 Davisian said:


Quote:


That would be sweet.




Might be able to fit Marleau with Kovalchuk and Thornton then. #shiny

BTW, why do you like Greenway so much? Don't know anything about him.



From the world Jr.'s tourney. He was a beast among boys there, and it seems like the guys who shine in that tournament end up being pretty good NHL'ers.

of course, I haven't seen much of him beyond that so some scouting opinions may very, but he strikes me as a Lucic/Simmonds type, but bigger and faster.




Or, Sweden just keeps a whole line from a SEL team in tact, where two of the players are Forsberg and Naslund each 2 years post-draft, and then the Rangers get fooled into thinking that their linemate Sundstrom is hot shit too, so they draft him 8th overall. And then we trade him for Pavel Brendl.

It's funny, I've been bitter about that for a while, but really he was a fine pick. He scored more than I remember. And the #1 we gave for Brendl turned out to be #8 overall, and there wasnt an all star drafted until Justin Williams at 28 (and really, the only star player taken after #3 was Hank in the 7th round -- crazy bad draft).
Inevitable move  
Vanzetti : 6/14/2017 6:55 pm : link
As will be buying out Staal and Henrik down the line.

Rangers have good goalie prospects but not much in the way of blue line prospects.

As posters have suggested, the obvious move is to trade Step for a young dman. But to be honest, that won't be enough. I think they have to play the long hand and avoid a win-now move like Shattenkirk. T
Plausible to me that we never buy Hank out  
Deej : 6/14/2017 7:10 pm : link
How many years of stink did it take to pull the plug on Girardi? I'd argue that he has been very bad since the 2013-14 playoffs (the SCF year). I dont have his playoff stats, but before that he was consistently a 48-49 CF% player in the regular season. After that he was 46.3, 41.3, and 44 lat year. In his defense, the more he struggled, the LESS sheltered his minute got. Because AV.

If Hank gets similar rope, then he just has to get thru next season without turning into a pumpkin. I doubt he falls apart (I actually expect a bounce back). I could see the last 1-2 seasons of Hank being below average. But I dont think he gets bought out over that. Im actually not sure Dolan would authorize it even if the hockey people requested it.
Hank's post on instagram  
Deej : 6/14/2017 7:11 pm : link
(see link for pic -- SFW)

Quote:
For 11 years you have left everything you had in front of me. The way you competed and paid the price night in and night out inspired me more than you know. Will miss you on and off the ice. To me you are the definition of a warrior and I will ALWAYS appreciate what you have done for me and our team over the years. Thank you G!!!

Link - ( New Window )
RE: Trading Stepan is  
djm : 6/14/2017 7:35 pm : link
In comment 13499928 SethFromAstoria said:
Quote:
remarkably asinine and typical to hear. Ive been away for personal reasons....this will be a glorious offseason. They should buy out everyone and take down Leetch and Graves numbers. Start fresh.


Trading Stepan is only asinine if they don't get fair value in return. I'd trade him in a package for a super star type player.
RE: Plausible to me that we never buy Hank out  
Vanzetti : 6/14/2017 7:43 pm : link
In comment 13500284 Deej said:
Quote:
How many years of stink did it take to pull the plug on Girardi? I'd argue that he has been very bad since the 2013-14 playoffs (the SCF year). I dont have his playoff stats, but before that he was consistently a 48-49 CF% player in the regular season. After that he was 46.3, 41.3, and 44 lat year. In his defense, the more he struggled, the LESS sheltered his minute got. Because AV.

If Hank gets similar rope, then he just has to get thru next season without turning into a pumpkin. I doubt he falls apart (I actually expect a bounce back). I could see the last 1-2 seasons of Hank being below average. But I dont think he gets bought out over that. Im actually not sure Dolan would authorize it even if the hockey people requested it.


Doubt Henrik lasts more than two more years. Shesterkin is waiting in the wings. The question is whether his contract is movable and whether he would waive the NMC
RE: I just read that the cap may rise to 77.5?  
arcarsenal : 6/14/2017 7:54 pm : link
In comment 13500209 Davisian said:
Quote:
That would be sweet.


Fuckin yeah. Plenty of room for Kovalchuk.
RE: RE: Plausible to me that we never buy Hank out  
Deej : 6/14/2017 8:12 pm : link
In comment 13500305 Vanzetti said:
Quote:

Doubt Henrik lasts more than two more years. Shesterkin is waiting in the wings. The question is whether his contract is movable and whether he would waive the NMC


I expect Shesterkin to play 2 more years in Russia. Then either 2 seasons in NYR or one in AHL, and one in NHL -- if Hank is struggling AND IS pans out. He's not just having this job handed to him. In any event, I could see Hank's last year and a half being a time-share or even or someone else taking over. That doesnt mean we're going to buy him out.
I'd pack Stepan's bags and drive him to LaGuardia...  
Torrag : 6/14/2017 11:11 pm : link
...but admittedly I'm probably in the minority. Here's my issue with him, he plays an intangible based game and his positives are primarily defensive so why the fuck is he so God Damn awful in the faceoff circle? It negates his value in so many ways. Fuck sake all the man should do the entire offseason is have his wife and kids drop the puck for him 'til he figures something out. It drives me insane.
RE: I'd pack Stepan's bags and drive him to LaGuardia...  
mvftw : 6/15/2017 9:02 am : link
In comment 13500500 Torrag said:
Quote:
...but admittedly I'm probably in the minority. Here's my issue with him, he plays an intangible based game and his positives are primarily defensive so why the fuck is he so God Damn awful in the faceoff circle? It negates his value in so many ways. Fuck sake all the man should do the entire offseason is have his wife and kids drop the puck for him 'til he figures something out. It drives me insane.


Totally Agree. I'll pack up Staal...
Should be an interesting week around the league  
MetsAreBack : 6/15/2017 10:26 am : link

Galchenyuk + draft pick for Drouin rumors heating up. Not sure why Tampa is entertaining this, but we shall see.
I think Igor plays one more year in the KHL  
Greg from LI : 6/15/2017 10:28 am : link
Then 2-3 years as Henrik's understudy, with the distribution of starts getting more equitable as time passes.
RE: I think Igor plays one more year in the KHL  
Deej : 6/15/2017 11:05 am : link
In comment 13500804 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Then 2-3 years as Henrik's understudy, with the distribution of starts getting more equitable as time passes.


That's what I see, I just thin 2 more years. No right or wrong there. I just dont see him getting off the boat and being handed 60 starts pre-season (ie when you have to do a buyout). So when is this buyout, barring a complete collapse by Hank?

- June 2018: IS has no N.A. experience? Nope

- June 2019: IS has 0-1 years N.A. experience. How many playoff starts? How many RS starts? Hard to see us eating 4.25, 5.75, 1.75, 1.75 for no Hank. Basically, it saves you 2.5 million per season. Are we so enamored by the hypothetical rookie success of IS that we arent willing to effectively pay Hank 2.5mm per for 2 seasons?

- June 2020: Shesty has at most 2 seasons of experience. Cutting Hank would create cap hits of 5.5 and 1.5 million. I.e. cutting him saves 1.5 million against the cap, net of 500-750k after you factor in his roster replacement, but spreads some of the hit to 2021-22.

Im sorry, I just dont buy the confident statement(s) that Hank will be bought out. It seems really unlikely to me. It wont save money. And if we're moving on from Hank for IS, either IS is a shot from a cannon superstar or we're in a bit of a rebuild, in which case we wont want to push cap obligations out further.

IMO, if Hank falls apart and we need to move on, then we should liquidate a bunch of guys and rebuild around Miller, Buch, Skjei and picks.
......  
BrettNYG10 : 6/15/2017 11:27 am : link
I think the buyout discussion revolves around whether you think he's in decline or not. He probably isn't what he was five years ago (due to aging, deterioration of athleticism), but I think he still has it in him to be a top goalie and be in Vezina contention with a good D in front of him. I think he could have 2-3 more high-caliber years and start to decline. The 15th highest paid goalie got paid $5.3M last year - assume some inflation and Lundqvist's $8.5M if he's an average goalie in 2019 isn't that bad to handle for a year or two. Especially if the Russian guy is taking over the reigns at that point on a cheap deal.

If he's even just average for the next two, I don't see it happening.
Yeah it is crazy how  
Sandgluff : 6/15/2017 11:55 am : link
quickly people want to start talking buyout. Hank was still really good in the playoffs and if IS makes it, it would be good for him to develop under a guy like Hank, plus he wont be getting paid a ton so presumably our goalie situation in terms of cap would be comparable to most other teams.
Fundamentally NHL buyout rules  
Deej : 6/15/2017 12:06 pm : link
dont get you out of rich contracts. It's very little savings. It is mostly helpful for situations like Girardi, where a guy on a big contract shouldnt be on the roster anymore. Ie marginal NHLer or worse. For a guy like Hank, who will likely be backup-quality or better at the end of his contract, there is very little savings once you factor in obtaining a competent replacement backup.

It's also helpful for compliance with the 50 contract rule, but that's not an issue NYR will have due to all the picks they traded.
Barring injury, I can't see Hank not being the starter in two years  
Greg from LI : 6/15/2017 12:16 pm : link
At that point, maybe Shestyorkin comes in and sets the world on fire and they start easing Henrik out of the #1 slot, but I can't see it happening before then.

And when the defense is much improved next season, I wouldn't be surprised to see a magical comeback type of season for him even if his skills are still starting to fade.
The guys on Sirius NHL radio  
bigbluehoya : 6/15/2017 12:25 pm : link
Seem to think that LV taking Raanta is a no-brainer, because LV more or less knows that they could flip him for a second rounder or better.
RE: The guys on Sirius NHL radio  
Deej : 6/15/2017 12:46 pm : link
In comment 13500938 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
Seem to think that LV taking Raanta is a no-brainer, because LV more or less knows that they could flip him for a second rounder or better.


Well the logic is sound. If Raanta is the most valuable piece, they'll take him. I think you could get a 2nd or better for Lindberg too. But LV is going to have those deals in place before the draft. I.e. if they take Raanta, they will have a handshake deal on trading him away for picks.

They should get at least a 2 and a 3 for Raanta in this bad draft.
......  
BrettNYG10 : 6/16/2017 10:35 am : link
I saw a few rumors (from anonymous accounts, to be fair) of NYR/MIN talking about a Dumba/Stepan deal. MIN would have to add in that scenario for me to like it.
I dont trust AV with a player like Dumba  
Deej : 6/16/2017 10:53 am : link
he would get buried here.
Wow, racist much, Deej?  
BrettNYG10 : 6/16/2017 11:09 am : link
I was listening to TSN for a little while the other day and they talked about Stepan as if he was a player needing to be managed. He's a legitimate 1C who has handled tough minutes.

The return for someone like him has to be someone like Trouba. And maybe Dumba is a comparable player, I don't know.

I trust Gorton overall, but am a bit worried about how the team judges D.
So hard to tell  
Deej : 6/16/2017 11:16 am : link
What is "much" in 2017? Goalpost keeps moving.
Trouba and Dumba are not similar  
Deej : 6/16/2017 11:21 am : link
Trouba is a very good defender. I would say he has offensive upside, but with 33 points in 60 games this year, the offense is here already.

Dumba is an electric skating, high offense skill smaller D man with all the expected defensive lapses players in that mold come with. I.e. not out of control bad defense, but it's an issue.

Trouba is a very good all situation top pair RHD. Dumba you probably want to shelter some.
Thanks.  
BrettNYG10 : 6/16/2017 11:28 am : link
I'm not willing to trade Stepan (straight-up, at least) unless it's for a bona fide top pair dman.
I think that's right  
Deej : 6/16/2017 11:31 am : link
a star center should return a star d. A bonafide 1C should return a #2 dman (ie a top pair not star). I think we'd add for Trouba, but we'd need more than Dumba. Esp. b/c of the race thing.
Opinions on Dumba from Wild fans  
Kyle in NY : 6/16/2017 11:47 am : link
were pretty mixed, after doing some research. Mostly centered around being unreliable defensively, though his offense seems to be developing well.

Trouba you take one for one in a heart beat, and might be even willing to put in more. Dumba, I'm intrigued by the upside and ability as a RHD. But if Stepan is going the other way, Minnesota needs to add more
.  
Kyle in NY : 6/16/2017 11:49 am : link
Maybe that's where Dav's boy Greenway comes into play as an extra piece
.  
BrettNYG10 : 6/16/2017 4:38 pm : link
Larry Brooks‏ @NYP_Brooksie 3m3 minutes ago
More
Of course NYR investigating market for Stepan with no-trade kicking in on 7/1 and need on D, but best info is that nothing imminent/close.
Depending on the price, I'd rather add into a  
Ash_3 : 6/16/2017 4:49 pm : link
Stepan+ package for Trouba if that sort of deal is available. I think we know what Stepan is and I think we can manage to paper over his loss. Trouba + Shattenkirk turns our D back into a strength.
Someone isolated Rangers info in Elliote Friedman's  
Deej : 6/16/2017 4:49 pm : link
radio interview today. He writes that excellent 30 Thoughts column for some dumb Canadian newspapre

RE: Depending on the price, I'd rather add into a  
Deej : 6/16/2017 4:50 pm : link
In comment 13502288 Ash_3 said:
Quote:
Stepan+ package for Trouba if that sort of deal is available. I think we know what Stepan is and I think we can manage to paper over his loss. Trouba + Shattenkirk turns our D back into a strength.


I'd do Stepan and Raanta, and then I wouldnt sign Shatty.
RE: RE: Depending on the price, I'd rather add into a  
Ash_3 : 6/16/2017 4:58 pm : link
In comment 13502291 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13502288 Ash_3 said:


Quote:


Stepan+ package for Trouba if that sort of deal is available. I think we know what Stepan is and I think we can manage to paper over his loss. Trouba + Shattenkirk turns our D back into a strength.



I'd do Stepan and Raanta, and then I wouldnt sign Shatty.


That's fair. Trouba's due for a huge salary increase soon and he's likely one you'd like to lock up.
If you pass on Shatty in that case  
Greg from LI : 6/16/2017 5:03 pm : link
You'd still need to bring in another defenseman, unless you think Graves or Bereglazov could handle the role.
Hopefully in that case  
Kyle in NY : 6/16/2017 5:19 pm : link
we'd still re-sign Smith
....  
BrettNYG10 : 6/16/2017 5:23 pm : link
Would you rather trade Stepan+Raanta for Trouba or just sign Shattenkirk? Or neither move?

Assume Smith re-signs in both scenarios.
RE: If you pass on Shatty in that case  
Deej : 6/16/2017 5:24 pm : link
In comment 13502304 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
You'd still need to bring in another defenseman, unless you think Graves or Bereglazov could handle the role.


Resign Smith, sign a veteran D to a $1 million contract and let him compete with those kids in camp. We had a really nice stretch of getting lucky on a cheap D (Eminger, Stralman, the guy who went to TOR whose name Im forgetting).
Hunwick.  
BrettNYG10 : 6/16/2017 5:26 pm : link
.
Right  
Deej : 6/16/2017 5:38 pm : link
I see no reason that every d man needs to make $$. If you have a good top 2 pairs, you can get by with a cheap #6.

Is Day turning pro? I know he is just a year post draft, but I thought I remembered him turning pro. I really think he might benefit from playing around McD and Skjei and seeing what medium sized, elite skating strong Ds do all game. I think Skjei probably greatly benefited from seeing such a similar guy in McD.
In my mind  
bigbluehoya : 6/16/2017 5:48 pm : link
Ideally your bottom pair, or at least your #6 would always be guys on their ELC that have realistic top-4 upside.
RE: In my mind  
Anakim : 6/16/2017 5:55 pm : link
In comment 13502343 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
Ideally your bottom pair, or at least your #6 would always be guys on their ELC that have realistic top-4 upside.


I wouldn't mind a third pair of Bereglazov/Graves-Pionk/Graves
RE: ....  
Kyle in NY : 6/16/2017 6:07 pm : link
In comment 13502321 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Would you rather trade Stepan+Raanta for Trouba or just sign Shattenkirk? Or neither move?

Assume Smith re-signs in both scenarios.


Tough call, probably the Trouba deal. But I'm ok bringing back mostly the same forward group with an improved D. So I'm good with either.
RE: ....  
bigbluehoya : 6/16/2017 6:19 pm : link
In comment 13502321 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Would you rather trade Stepan+Raanta for Trouba or just sign Shattenkirk? Or neither move?

Assume Smith re-signs in both scenarios.


Trouba deal, and it's not close for me. Younger, better player, still RFA after the upcoming season, and that trade cuts almost $4.5m from the cap this season. If you do that trade you still have damn near $20m cap room, figure you resign Smith and you have $15m cap room.

So basically you'd be in the same spot cap wise (in immediate terms), and you've basically done everything you need to do to turn your biggest weakness into a strength. And you've gotten younger.

Admittedly, You have a problem at C in this case which you'll need to be creative to fix.
For clarity  
bigbluehoya : 6/16/2017 7:08 pm : link
I think 'Peg would demand more than Step + Raanta
Interesting  
Anakim : 6/16/2017 11:36 pm : link
@TheFourthPeriod who's a dark horse player that you could see being moved that not a lot of people might expect?


David Pagnotta‏ @TheFourthPeriod
David Pagnotta
Chris Kreider.
And then there's this  
Anakim : 6/16/2017 11:41 pm : link
Bob McKenzie‏Verified account
@TSNBobMcKenzie

ARI, BTW, is one of multiple teams with serious interest in NYR C Derek Stepan.



Give me OEL or #7 overall!


OR


They can take Staal. Stepan and Staal for Christian Dvorak and the 7th overall pick! Make it happen!
Coyotes have a lot of shiny toys  
Anakim : 6/16/2017 11:55 pm : link
OEL, Domi, Dvorak, Strome, Chychrun, Crouse, Berlini, DeAngelo, Keller, Murphy


Oh and they also have the 7th overall pick

No to Duclair

RE: ....  
Stufftherun : 6/18/2017 8:59 am : link
In comment 13502321 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Would you rather trade Stepan+Raanta for Trouba or just sign Shattenkirk? Or neither move?

Assume Smith re-signs in both scenarios.


I'd move Step & Raanta in a heartbeat for Trouba! Step reached his celing 2 seasons ago, he doesn't have the legs to keep up with the speed of today's game and he's moving into the dark years of his contract with the NMC coming. Sure, he's got a "high hockey IQ" but we all know that's just a euphimism for a player that isn't highly skilled or doesn't do amything at an elite level, and let's face it, he was invisible in the playoffs in fact he admitted it.
Pages: 1 2 3 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner