Then 2-3 years as Henrik's understudy, with the distribution of starts getting more equitable as time passes.
That's what I see, I just thin 2 more years. No right or wrong there. I just dont see him getting off the boat and being handed 60 starts pre-season (ie when you have to do a buyout). So when is this buyout, barring a complete collapse by Hank?
- June 2018: IS has no N.A. experience? Nope
- June 2019: IS has 0-1 years N.A. experience. How many playoff starts? How many RS starts? Hard to see us eating 4.25, 5.75, 1.75, 1.75 for no Hank. Basically, it saves you 2.5 million per season. Are we so enamored by the hypothetical rookie success of IS that we arent willing to effectively pay Hank 2.5mm per for 2 seasons?
- June 2020: Shesty has at most 2 seasons of experience. Cutting Hank would create cap hits of 5.5 and 1.5 million. I.e. cutting him saves 1.5 million against the cap, net of 500-750k after you factor in his roster replacement, but spreads some of the hit to 2021-22.
Im sorry, I just dont buy the confident statement(s) that Hank will be bought out. It seems really unlikely to me. It wont save money. And if we're moving on from Hank for IS, either IS is a shot from a cannon superstar or we're in a bit of a rebuild, in which case we wont want to push cap obligations out further.
IMO, if Hank falls apart and we need to move on, then we should liquidate a bunch of guys and rebuild around Miller, Buch, Skjei and picks.
I think the buyout discussion revolves around whether you think he's in decline or not. He probably isn't what he was five years ago (due to aging, deterioration of athleticism), but I think he still has it in him to be a top goalie and be in Vezina contention with a good D in front of him. I think he could have 2-3 more high-caliber years and start to decline. The 15th highest paid goalie got paid $5.3M last year - assume some inflation and Lundqvist's $8.5M if he's an average goalie in 2019 isn't that bad to handle for a year or two. Especially if the Russian guy is taking over the reigns at that point on a cheap deal.
If he's even just average for the next two, I don't see it happening.
quickly people want to start talking buyout. Hank was still really good in the playoffs and if IS makes it, it would be good for him to develop under a guy like Hank, plus he wont be getting paid a ton so presumably our goalie situation in terms of cap would be comparable to most other teams.
dont get you out of rich contracts. It's very little savings. It is mostly helpful for situations like Girardi, where a guy on a big contract shouldnt be on the roster anymore. Ie marginal NHLer or worse. For a guy like Hank, who will likely be backup-quality or better at the end of his contract, there is very little savings once you factor in obtaining a competent replacement backup.
It's also helpful for compliance with the 50 contract rule, but that's not an issue NYR will have due to all the picks they traded.
Barring injury, I can't see Hank not being the starter in two years
At that point, maybe Shestyorkin comes in and sets the world on fire and they start easing Henrik out of the #1 slot, but I can't see it happening before then.
And when the defense is much improved next season, I wouldn't be surprised to see a magical comeback type of season for him even if his skills are still starting to fade.
Seem to think that LV taking Raanta is a no-brainer, because LV more or less knows that they could flip him for a second rounder or better.
Well the logic is sound. If Raanta is the most valuable piece, they'll take him. I think you could get a 2nd or better for Lindberg too. But LV is going to have those deals in place before the draft. I.e. if they take Raanta, they will have a handshake deal on trading him away for picks.
They should get at least a 2 and a 3 for Raanta in this bad draft.
I saw a few rumors (from anonymous accounts, to be fair) of NYR/MIN talking about a Dumba/Stepan deal. MIN would have to add in that scenario for me to like it.
I was listening to TSN for a little while the other day and they talked about Stepan as if he was a player needing to be managed. He's a legitimate 1C who has handled tough minutes.
The return for someone like him has to be someone like Trouba. And maybe Dumba is a comparable player, I don't know.
I trust Gorton overall, but am a bit worried about how the team judges D.
Trouba is a very good defender. I would say he has offensive upside, but with 33 points in 60 games this year, the offense is here already.
Dumba is an electric skating, high offense skill smaller D man with all the expected defensive lapses players in that mold come with. I.e. not out of control bad defense, but it's an issue.
Trouba is a very good all situation top pair RHD. Dumba you probably want to shelter some.
a star center should return a star d. A bonafide 1C should return a #2 dman (ie a top pair not star). I think we'd add for Trouba, but we'd need more than Dumba. Esp. b/c of the race thing.
were pretty mixed, after doing some research. Mostly centered around being unreliable defensively, though his offense seems to be developing well.
Trouba you take one for one in a heart beat, and might be even willing to put in more. Dumba, I'm intrigued by the upside and ability as a RHD. But if Stepan is going the other way, Minnesota needs to add more
Larry Brooks @NYP_Brooksie 3m3 minutes ago
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Of course NYR investigating market for Stepan with no-trade kicking in on 7/1 and need on D, but best info is that nothing imminent/close.
Stepan+ package for Trouba if that sort of deal is available. I think we know what Stepan is and I think we can manage to paper over his loss. Trouba + Shattenkirk turns our D back into a strength.
Someone isolated Rangers info in Elliote Friedman's
Stepan+ package for Trouba if that sort of deal is available. I think we know what Stepan is and I think we can manage to paper over his loss. Trouba + Shattenkirk turns our D back into a strength.
I'd do Stepan and Raanta, and then I wouldnt sign Shatty.
RE: RE: Depending on the price, I'd rather add into a
Stepan+ package for Trouba if that sort of deal is available. I think we know what Stepan is and I think we can manage to paper over his loss. Trouba + Shattenkirk turns our D back into a strength.
I'd do Stepan and Raanta, and then I wouldnt sign Shatty.
That's fair. Trouba's due for a huge salary increase soon and he's likely one you'd like to lock up.
You'd still need to bring in another defenseman, unless you think Graves or Bereglazov could handle the role.
Resign Smith, sign a veteran D to a $1 million contract and let him compete with those kids in camp. We had a really nice stretch of getting lucky on a cheap D (Eminger, Stralman, the guy who went to TOR whose name Im forgetting).
I see no reason that every d man needs to make $$. If you have a good top 2 pairs, you can get by with a cheap #6.
Is Day turning pro? I know he is just a year post draft, but I thought I remembered him turning pro. I really think he might benefit from playing around McD and Skjei and seeing what medium sized, elite skating strong Ds do all game. I think Skjei probably greatly benefited from seeing such a similar guy in McD.
Would you rather trade Stepan+Raanta for Trouba or just sign Shattenkirk? Or neither move?
Assume Smith re-signs in both scenarios.
Trouba deal, and it's not close for me. Younger, better player, still RFA after the upcoming season, and that trade cuts almost $4.5m from the cap this season. If you do that trade you still have damn near $20m cap room, figure you resign Smith and you have $15m cap room.
So basically you'd be in the same spot cap wise (in immediate terms), and you've basically done everything you need to do to turn your biggest weakness into a strength. And you've gotten younger.
Admittedly, You have a problem at C in this case which you'll need to be creative to fix.
Would you rather trade Stepan+Raanta for Trouba or just sign Shattenkirk? Or neither move?
Assume Smith re-signs in both scenarios.
I'd move Step & Raanta in a heartbeat for Trouba! Step reached his celing 2 seasons ago, he doesn't have the legs to keep up with the speed of today's game and he's moving into the dark years of his contract with the NMC coming. Sure, he's got a "high hockey IQ" but we all know that's just a euphimism for a player that isn't highly skilled or doesn't do amything at an elite level, and let's face it, he was invisible in the playoffs in fact he admitted it.
Galchenyuk + draft pick for Drouin rumors heating up. Not sure why Tampa is entertaining this, but we shall see.
That's what I see, I just thin 2 more years. No right or wrong there. I just dont see him getting off the boat and being handed 60 starts pre-season (ie when you have to do a buyout). So when is this buyout, barring a complete collapse by Hank?
- June 2018: IS has no N.A. experience? Nope
- June 2019: IS has 0-1 years N.A. experience. How many playoff starts? How many RS starts? Hard to see us eating 4.25, 5.75, 1.75, 1.75 for no Hank. Basically, it saves you 2.5 million per season. Are we so enamored by the hypothetical rookie success of IS that we arent willing to effectively pay Hank 2.5mm per for 2 seasons?
- June 2020: Shesty has at most 2 seasons of experience. Cutting Hank would create cap hits of 5.5 and 1.5 million. I.e. cutting him saves 1.5 million against the cap, net of 500-750k after you factor in his roster replacement, but spreads some of the hit to 2021-22.
Im sorry, I just dont buy the confident statement(s) that Hank will be bought out. It seems really unlikely to me. It wont save money. And if we're moving on from Hank for IS, either IS is a shot from a cannon superstar or we're in a bit of a rebuild, in which case we wont want to push cap obligations out further.
IMO, if Hank falls apart and we need to move on, then we should liquidate a bunch of guys and rebuild around Miller, Buch, Skjei and picks.
If he's even just average for the next two, I don't see it happening.
It's also helpful for compliance with the 50 contract rule, but that's not an issue NYR will have due to all the picks they traded.
And when the defense is much improved next season, I wouldn't be surprised to see a magical comeback type of season for him even if his skills are still starting to fade.
Well the logic is sound. If Raanta is the most valuable piece, they'll take him. I think you could get a 2nd or better for Lindberg too. But LV is going to have those deals in place before the draft. I.e. if they take Raanta, they will have a handshake deal on trading him away for picks.
They should get at least a 2 and a 3 for Raanta in this bad draft.
The return for someone like him has to be someone like Trouba. And maybe Dumba is a comparable player, I don't know.
I trust Gorton overall, but am a bit worried about how the team judges D.
Dumba is an electric skating, high offense skill smaller D man with all the expected defensive lapses players in that mold come with. I.e. not out of control bad defense, but it's an issue.
Trouba is a very good all situation top pair RHD. Dumba you probably want to shelter some.
Trouba you take one for one in a heart beat, and might be even willing to put in more. Dumba, I'm intrigued by the upside and ability as a RHD. But if Stepan is going the other way, Minnesota needs to add more
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Of course NYR investigating market for Stepan with no-trade kicking in on 7/1 and need on D, but best info is that nothing imminent/close.
I'd do Stepan and Raanta, and then I wouldnt sign Shatty.
Quote:
Stepan+ package for Trouba if that sort of deal is available. I think we know what Stepan is and I think we can manage to paper over his loss. Trouba + Shattenkirk turns our D back into a strength.
I'd do Stepan and Raanta, and then I wouldnt sign Shatty.
That's fair. Trouba's due for a huge salary increase soon and he's likely one you'd like to lock up.
Assume Smith re-signs in both scenarios.
Resign Smith, sign a veteran D to a $1 million contract and let him compete with those kids in camp. We had a really nice stretch of getting lucky on a cheap D (Eminger, Stralman, the guy who went to TOR whose name Im forgetting).
Is Day turning pro? I know he is just a year post draft, but I thought I remembered him turning pro. I really think he might benefit from playing around McD and Skjei and seeing what medium sized, elite skating strong Ds do all game. I think Skjei probably greatly benefited from seeing such a similar guy in McD.
I wouldn't mind a third pair of Bereglazov/Graves-Pionk/Graves
Assume Smith re-signs in both scenarios.
Tough call, probably the Trouba deal. But I'm ok bringing back mostly the same forward group with an improved D. So I'm good with either.
Assume Smith re-signs in both scenarios.
Trouba deal, and it's not close for me. Younger, better player, still RFA after the upcoming season, and that trade cuts almost $4.5m from the cap this season. If you do that trade you still have damn near $20m cap room, figure you resign Smith and you have $15m cap room.
So basically you'd be in the same spot cap wise (in immediate terms), and you've basically done everything you need to do to turn your biggest weakness into a strength. And you've gotten younger.
Admittedly, You have a problem at C in this case which you'll need to be creative to fix.
David Pagnotta @TheFourthPeriod
David Pagnotta
Chris Kreider.
@TSNBobMcKenzie
ARI, BTW, is one of multiple teams with serious interest in NYR C Derek Stepan.
Give me OEL or #7 overall!
OR
They can take Staal. Stepan and Staal for Christian Dvorak and the 7th overall pick! Make it happen!
Oh and they also have the 7th overall pick
No to Duclair
Assume Smith re-signs in both scenarios.
I'd move Step & Raanta in a heartbeat for Trouba! Step reached his celing 2 seasons ago, he doesn't have the legs to keep up with the speed of today's game and he's moving into the dark years of his contract with the NMC coming. Sure, he's got a "high hockey IQ" but we all know that's just a euphimism for a player that isn't highly skilled or doesn't do amything at an elite level, and let's face it, he was invisible in the playoffs in fact he admitted it.