NFT: NYK - draft/trade talk

I believe it is the case that NYK can "stretch" Melo (allocate 54mm owed over 5 seasons) if released prior to Aug 31. If true, this may be a better outcome than some forced trade/salary commitment for Redick.

is even dumber than buying him out.

have discussed 5 and 10 for 3 but Vlade wants "a lot more" to pull the trigger (as he should).

Is he entering the draft again or are they looking at him as a FA signing? CAN you even enter a draft twice? I feel like some euro player did that recently.

You have Noah also on the books. Get through the contracts, get younger players and don't burden the future. Feed it!

comments are made without context. Yesterday I saw a hockey thread where a person posted it would be dumb to trade NYR Derek Stepan. Well, how do you know when you don't know yet what may be received?

When you say it would be dumb to buy out or stretch Melo, there needs to be context to evaluate i.e.

Door # 1 - keep him

Door # 2 - trade him (need to know what the return is)

Door # 3 - buy him out

Door # 4 - need to understand this relative to other options i.e. what can the decrease per the stretch be spent on via FA

talks up Jonah Bolden as a potential sleeper round 2. Sounds very, very, very intriguing
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Dennis Smith will have the Timberwolves, Knicks, Mavericks, Hornets, Pistons and Heat attend his Pro Day, sources told Basketball Insiders.

In comment 13500710 DanMetroMan said:

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have discussed 5 and 10 for 3 but Vlade wants "a lot more" to pull the trigger (as he should).

Philly has enough peripheral assets to get that done. Luwawu, Korkmaz, Anderson, Covington, okafor. Would make sense for both teams. Getting monk and Mitchell/Ntilikina/Kennard would be a solid grab for philly.

looks similar to Marques Chriss (a good thing considering where he's projected)

are my new guilty pleasure. Get that value Vlade! Go Sac-Town!

The point is why do the Knicks NEED to make a splash this offseason? That's the only reason to stretch him. This team has nothing it needs to go on a spending spree. so take the band aid off quickly instead of peeling it slowly.

In comment 13500727 DanMetroMan said:

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Michael Scotto‏Verified account @MikeAScotto Following More Dennis Smith will have the Timberwolves, Knicks, Mavericks, Hornets, Pistons and Heat attend his Pro Day, sources told Basketball Insiders.

makes you wonder if smith had some sort of injury whem he visited knicks

In comment 13500704 Enzo said:

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is even dumber than buying him out.

I dont even see a counterargument one could muster.

WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU EXTEND THE PAIN OF MELO'S BUYOUT OVER 5 SEASONS? Do you need the money now? For what? A title run? The fact that an option exists doesnt make it worth considering. How about the fact that Melo might opt out?

Berman wrote about this in the post today. A whole article about using the stretch on Melo. Clearly because he was required to submit an article and had nothing to write about. Berman IMO is also the dumbest guy covering the Knicks. There is never a conception of long term planning in his pieces. Everything is a suggestion about how we can get marginally better in the short term.

decides he wants to come here - which isn't happening - there's no "context" that makes stretching Melo a smart idea for this summer. And even then, there's other methods they can use to clear cap space.

over the Wolves, Pelicans and Blazers. Wolves I think will get better and have more potential but aren't ready quite yet. Pelicans need 60 points and 30 boards from their front court to win every night if Holiday dips. They got a good formula to take on the warriors just an awful cap structure that limits their ceiling.

Jokic orchestrated the #1 regular season offense this past year. Jamal Murray has the makings of a 20+ ppg scorer. Harris is a high end 3 and D player. If the other hernangomez is as good as billed they have a tremendous stretch 4. They're missing another stud defender but if they swing right on a high risk/reward pick like Giles or OG they're onto something. That's not even including the really solid vets they have in Chandler, Barton, Gallo, plumlee and Faried. And whatever mudiay is.

think this is the year the Wolves finally improve and make the playoffs. They started the season absolutely horribly which took a lot of air out of the balloon. I think they win 40+ this season.

I'd rank them as follows now:

1 GSW
2 Hou
3 Utah if GH stays
4 SAS
5 Portland
6 LAC
7 Minny
8 Den

I don't think what OKC did last year is sustainable. One guy doing everything.

under the assumption that Phil is going to spend to the cap like he has the prior 2 offseasons. In that scenario, what value free agents might we have a chance at? I'm thinking contracts similar to what Lee received last summer. Obviously this team needs guards and wings...but it seems like anyone decent is going to command big dollars this summer.

case for using the stretch on Melo. It's about as bad of an idea as possible for this current team.

Clark, Dedmon, Shelvin Mack, Motiejunas, Muscala, Ennis, Patterson, Waiters, James Johnson, Ilyasova, Tyreke Evans, Beasley, Willie Reed

Is "one guy doing everything". They had a top 10 defense and Westbrook was the one guy getting shit on for not trying on defense. Adams, oladipo, Roberson all Did their share, just not On offense. Offense is merely half the game. Leaps and bounds ahead of Portland.

yeah I'm dying to know the plan as well, but so many moving pieces given notion of Melo, Lee and/or KOQ being traded, whomever we get at 8, and whether he is capable of being honest and responsible about the state of the union and not pursuing a low end playoff spot (and failing) and instead making a real commitment to a rebuild and looking like this:

PG: Rubio (for Lee), Baker, Randle
SG: Monk (8), Evan Turner (for 15, 26)
SF: Justin Jackson (15), Shabazz Muhammed (if cheap contract, low risk), Kooz
PF: KP, DJ Wilson (26), Burton (44)
C: Hernangomez, KOQ, Noah

after their trade

is damian lillard obviously not to knicks

In comment 13500820 Pep22 said:

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yeah I'm dying to know the plan as well, but so many moving pieces given notion of Melo, Lee and/or KOQ being traded, whomever we get at 8, and whether he is capable of being honest and responsible about the state of the union and not pursuing a low end playoff spot (and failing) and instead making a real commitment to a rebuild and looking like this: PG: Rubio (for Lee), Baker, Randle SG: Monk (8), Evan Turner (for 15, 26) SF: Justin Jackson (15), Shabazz Muhammed (if cheap contract, low risk), Kooz PF: KP, DJ Wilson (26), Burton (44) C: Hernangomez, KOQ, Noah

That lineup would win about 30 games and then you are stuck with a bunch of bloated contracts.

In comment 13500860 Vanzetti said:

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In comment 13500820 Pep22 said: Quote: yeah I'm dying to know the plan as well, but so many moving pieces given notion of Melo, Lee and/or KOQ being traded, whomever we get at 8, and whether he is capable of being honest and responsible about the state of the union and not pursuing a low end playoff spot (and failing) and instead making a real commitment to a rebuild and looking like this: PG: Rubio (for Lee), Baker, Randle SG: Monk (8), Evan Turner (for 15, 26) SF: Justin Jackson (15), Shabazz Muhammed (if cheap contract, low risk), Kooz PF: KP, DJ Wilson (26), Burton (44) C: Hernangomez, KOQ, Noah That lineup would win about 30 games and then you are stuck with a bunch of bloated contracts.

Hopefully less games

suspect Muhammad gets more money than people expect given his age, the metrics surprisingly "like" him more than you would think given his utter lack of passing. He'd be a nice gamble for a team like the Nets. For the Knicks he seems like an odd fit given his game. He's basically 100% ISO.

In comment 13500860 Vanzetti said:

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In comment 13500820 Pep22 said: Quote: yeah I'm dying to know the plan as well, but so many moving pieces given notion of Melo, Lee and/or KOQ being traded, whomever we get at 8, and whether he is capable of being honest and responsible about the state of the union and not pursuing a low end playoff spot (and failing) and instead making a real commitment to a rebuild and looking like this: PG: Rubio (for Lee), Baker, Randle SG: Monk (8), Evan Turner (for 15, 26) SF: Justin Jackson (15), Shabazz Muhammed (if cheap contract, low risk), Kooz PF: KP, DJ Wilson (26), Burton (44) C: Hernangomez, KOQ, Noah That lineup would win about 30 games and then you are stuck with a bunch of bloated contracts.

He forgot Lance Thomas which would probably increase the win total to like 50 games.

In comment 13500710 DanMetroMan said:

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have discussed 5 and 10 for 3 but Vlade wants "a lot more" to pull the trigger (as he should).

Counterpoint: Vlade is a moron who was fleeced by Sam Hinkie. That 3 was their original pick...

In comment 13500870 DanMetroMan said:

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suspect Muhammad gets more money than people expect given his age, the metrics surprisingly "like" him more than you would think given his utter lack of passing. He'd be a nice gamble for a team like the Nets. For the Knicks he seems like an odd fit given his game. He's basically 100% ISO.

Plus there is just a ton of money that NEEDS to be spent to get to cap floors.

I do wonder whether there is going to be a trend in the league where more GMs recognize that player X is talented but maybe isnt conducive to winning. E.g. do you want to pay real month to Shabbaz and have him clog your offense up? Do you want to trade for Drummond when he can be hack-a-Shaq'd to death? Love, when he can neither guard the perimeter or rim protect? Obviously these guys dont PREVENT you from winnings, but in a cap league how much can you pay for guys with fatal flaws in their game? Shabbaz isnt getting megabux, but even in the 10-15 range (look at the PER & WS48), seems like a bad investment.

OTOH, top 5 players help cover the warts of others, and there are not as many "no drawback" players as there are teams that would like them. That's why I think 3 years of Courtney Lee should get us a late #1. Courtney Lee isnt gonna mess up your offense/defense.

One guy making 13mm, another making 16mm. (and we can't do anything about Noah). That is 47mm, less than half the cap.

Young pieces: Baker, Monk, Jackson, KP, Wilson, Hernangomez.

Rubio serves to change the culture from selfishness to sharing of the basketball, helping all the kids grow as players.

Turner is useful, albeit with his disgusting contract. But I'd trade cap room (that won't attract meaningful players) for Jackson, Wilson.

_________________________________________________


PG: Rubio (for Lee), Baker, Randle
SG: Monk (8), Evan Turner (for 15, 26)
SF: Justin Jackson (15), Shabazz Muhammed (if cheap contract, low risk), Kooz
PF: KP, DJ Wilson (26), Burton (44)
C: Hernangomez, KOQ, Noah

just leave this here...
"Derrick loves New York and wants to be there," Rose's agent, B.J. Armstrong, told Bleacher Report recently. "We've expressed that to them and been very consistent about it. Whether it happens is on them; all we can do is be clear."

and we're gonna hear about "organic growth".

Kevin Pelton's draft projections for the 2017 class has Lonzo Ball ranked first ahead of Markelle Fultz and Jonathan Isaac.

Pelton's model estimates the number of wins above replacement player each player will average during his first five seasons in the NBA. The two components of the model takes translated college/international performance and adds in age.

Dennis Smith Jr. and Zach Collins round out the top-5 while Josh Jackson ranks sixth. De'Aaron Fox, who is expected to be a top-5 pick, ranks 10th.

Ideally Rose because he offers less to the team and actively stunts KP's growth.

The culture around this team is toxic. Usually I worry about talent first, and then culture, but this team has stunk for so long and we finally have a franchise cornerstone (who has already shown signs of frustration); it's important to nip this in the bud.

There's a plausible route to being an ECF contender or more within 3-4 years but it depends on a happy and flourishing KP.

think Rose remaining is worse than Melo by a significant margin. Melo is a better player who actually has a positive relationship with KP. KP himself basically said Rose doesn't talk. Ideally both are gone but Rose directly impacts KP/Willy's touches and the quality of said touches.

In comment 13500935 DanMetroMan said:

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just leave this here... "Derrick loves New York and wants to be there," Rose's agent, B.J. Armstrong, told Bleacher Report recently. "We've expressed that to them and been very consistent about it. Whether it happens is on them; all we can do is be clear."

Is BJ Armstrong actually his agent or is that a sarcastic quip? Is it bad that neither would shock me?

In comment 13500959 giantsfan44ab said:

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In comment 13500935 DanMetroMan said: Quote: just leave this here... "Derrick loves New York and wants to be there," Rose's agent, B.J. Armstrong, told Bleacher Report recently. "We've expressed that to them and been very consistent about it. Whether it happens is on them; all we can do is be clear." Is BJ Armstrong actually his agent or is that a sarcastic quip? Is it bad that neither would shock me?

He's legit his agent

just tp watch bbi knicks fans heads explode

I don't know if I can even watch Knicks games next season if Rose or Melo is still here. I just can't stomach either of them.

Monk thread was good. I've been warming to the idea of drafting him so long as we're committed to making him a 1. Porzingis and Monk would go a long way towards making us a good shooting team and both would be here long after Phil leaves. A creative coaching stuff would figure out how best to leverage two elite shooters.

What exactly are you trying to build by giving big money to TWO guys who have made it competing is not their first priority.

really warmed to Monk if we are willing to legit give him a shot at the 1.

1. Fultz
2. Ball
3. Jackson
4. Isaac
5. Fox
6. DSJ
7. Tatum
8. Monk

Gimme one....Holler if you hear me

I think I'd run to the table to get Tatum though. I have him clearly above the guys the Knicks will be choosing from.

In comment 13500990 giantsfan44ab said:

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I think I'd run to the table to get Tatum though. I have him clearly above the guys the Knicks will be choosing from.

I basically have the 4 I would most like

Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Isaac and then 4 guys I like (just a little less) but more than I like Frenchy, Markkanen etc. After Isaac I could be convinced any of the next 4 would be "best" for us. I just want one of those 8 guys.

Smalls not joining the Knicks staff

In comment 13500935 DanMetroMan said:

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just leave this here... "Derrick loves New York and wants to be there," Rose's agent, B.J. Armstrong, told Bleacher Report recently. "We've expressed that to them and been very consistent about it. Whether it happens is on them; all we can do is be clear."

translation: his agent knows that there's not going to be much of a market for Rose...and is hoping Phil is dumb enough to bring him back.

and we miss out b/c of that fucking coin flip. But who knows, maybe Monk winds up being a better player.

In comment 13501019 Enzo said:

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In comment 13500935 DanMetroMan said: Quote: just leave this here... "Derrick loves New York and wants to be there," Rose's agent, B.J. Armstrong, told Bleacher Report recently. "We've expressed that to them and been very consistent about it. Whether it happens is on them; all we can do is be clear." translation: his agent knows that there's not going to be much of a market for Rose...and is hoping Phil is dumb enough to bring him back.

Yeah. And when he ends up taking a very low $$ deal from a non-CLE/GSW playoff team, we'll hear about how he's made enough and all he wants to do is win.

I feel like Milwaukee would be a good spot for him. He can be a 6th man of the year -- he will absolutely torch 2nd units, and get a break defensively against subs. And since Giannis can play so many positions, they can mix him in with the starters with easy. Not sure the Bucks would be interested, but for the right price/understanding about role, Rose is a solid play.

He likely eventually ends up in China or Turkey or some other stupid league. It's hard to see how in the modern NBA, a high usage player that doesn't make (or even take) threes and doesn't get to the line all that often can be part of an effective offense.

reportedly looking impressive in his Sixers workout.

In comment 13501081 DanMetroMan said:

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reportedly looking impressive in his Sixers workout.

a couple people said he didnt shoot well to start but his passes and ball handling were good, then his shot got better..

a lot of draftniks are saying they expect tatum to fall

In comment 13501083 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13501081 DanMetroMan said: Quote: reportedly looking impressive in his Sixers workout. a couple people said he didnt shoot well to start but his passes and ball handling were good, then his shot got better.. a lot of draftniks are saying they expect tatum to fall

I doubt there is a single scout who is worried about Monk's shot so I'm sure if he had had a choice he'd shoot poorly and show good secondary skills.

"Nobody wants to go there and play in the triangle," one Western Conference scout told Bleacher Report.

"Some free agents, I think the triangle is an issue," another Western Conference scout added. "But before you even get to the system, I think there are several other factors that are much more of a priority or influence in terms of desire to play there."

So do any free agents fit the bill?

This is where things get even more difficult.

ESPN's Ian Begley recently reported the Knicks are interested in PJ Tucker. He is 6'6" and 245 pounds and boasts a solid outside stroke (35.7 percent from deep last year).

"He's a tough, physical defender, can guard 3s and 4s and some 5s, hit corner three-pointers," one of the scouts said. "He's a 20- to 25-minute player and good role player who has value in guarding star players."

The issue?

He's 32. Also, as the scout adds: "I think the Knicks would have to overpay to get him."

Other possible bargain-bin adds? Not an easy list to put together. You have Omri Casspi and Ty Lawson if the Knicks want to throw some short-term deals at NBA-caliber players. Tim Hardaway Jr. is 25 and coming off his best-ever season, and he's a restricted free agent, but it's hard to envision him reuniting with the team that dumped him in 2015.
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In comment 13501083 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13501081 DanMetroMan said: Quote: reportedly looking impressive in his Sixers workout. a couple people said he didnt shoot well to start but his passes and ball handling were good, then his shot got better..

it the workout? I'm genuinely curious...how does one demonstrate passing ability in a workout?

hey, that's not true. Rose wants to stay!

In comment 13501090 Enzo said:

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In comment 13501083 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 13501081 DanMetroMan said: Quote: reportedly looking impressive in his Sixers workout. a couple people said he didnt shoot well to start but his passes and ball handling were good, then his shot got better.. it the workout? I'm genuinely curious...how does one demonstrate passing ability in a workout?

The tweets say he made impressive passes "in traffic" so presumably there are others working with him.

are running 3 on 3 from the video I have seen.

In comment 13501083 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13501081 DanMetroMan said: Quote: reportedly looking impressive in his Sixers workout. a couple people said he didnt shoot well to start but his passes and ball handling were good, then his shot got better.. a lot of draftniks are saying they expect tatum to fall

If Tatum is there at 8, we need to rush the stage. But my fear is that Phil won't select Tatum even if he was there at 8.

If Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Isaac, Fox and Smith are off the board - who do they take? I have a hard time seeing them pass up Tatum for Markkanen, Monk or Frank. It'll be tough seeing Tatum sitting there while Minny's on the clock.

Unless something unforeseen happens.

for #3, who says no?

From what I've seen he's a top 3 pick most years.

had din din with Phil

In comment 13501104 bceagle05 said:

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If Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Isaac, Fox and Smith are off the board - who do they take? I have a hard time seeing them pass up Tatum for Markkanen, Monk or Frank. It'll be tough seeing Tatum sitting there while Minny's on the clock.

is tatum really a fit though? he is more of a 3 then a 4 and wiggins right now is their 3...

i still wouldnt be shocjed if isaac is gone they go collins

first domino will be la if rumora are true they are taking jackson...

2nd if that happens does philly go mpnk or ball i would assume ball

In comment 13501109 Carl in CT said:

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Unless something unforeseen happens.

if monk, dsj or tatum are sitting there i would be shocked if they went frank...

In comment 13501111 DanMetroMan said:

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for #3, who says no?

Minnesota? I dont know if I give up Wiggins for the #1. I understand the intrigue with Fultz but do you trade a 21 year old he is probably one of the 5 best athletes in the league that shoots 35% from 3 as a 21 year old who averages 24 PPG?

I'm guessing Tatum or DSJ would qualify.

passes on him. But I wouldn't be shocked at all.

If he's there I bet we take him without thinking twice.

In comment 13501121 Anakim said:

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passes on him. But I wouldn't be shocked at all.

tafum is a great fit for the type of offense phil wants to run...id be shocked if phil passed...

i also think that is why knkcks like monk and frank, both can play off the ball and both can play lead guard

Potential "ball-stopper"

In comment 13501111 DanMetroMan said:

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for #3, who says no?

Wolves. I wouldn't trade him for #1 in this draft.

In comment 13501125 Anakim said:

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Potential "ball-stopper"

That would be a lot of speculation to heap on an 18 year old who showed to be a capable playmaker. PG coming into the league was a pure catch and shoot specialist. Tatum has flashed some point forward potential at Duke.

don't love LaVine and Wiggins together and think Jackson or Isaac + say DSJ minus Wiggins makes the Wolves a nasty team.

In comment 13501117 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13501109 Carl in CT said: Quote: Unless something unforeseen happens. if monk, dsj or tatum are sitting there i would be shocked if they went frank...

I'd be shocked if we pass on Tatum. Less so the other guards. Maybe Phil likes Frank's size and two way game for his offense.

Though I'll say this -- Phil's coaching/presidenting career has been focused around one thing. Jordan and Pippen. Shaq and Kobe. Securing Melo at any cost, taking a chance on KP when Phil thought he would need to redshit for a few years, and then trading for Rose.

The unifying factor is star power. Monk and Smith are guys who can take over a game. Both could be stars. Frank not so much. I tend to think Phil swings for the fences. Also, what is the downside? Does hitting a single do anything for him? He doesnt strike me as a guy just looking to stay employed. He badly wants to actually succeed.

In comment 13501131 DanMetroMan said:

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don't love LaVine and Wiggins together and think Jackson or Isaac + say DSJ minus Wiggins makes the Wolves a nasty team.

agreed i think they should trade 1 of lavine or wiggins

All Star selections for Wiggins at 6.5 and All NBA teams at 3.5. And I'd personally take the over for both.

He leaves a lot to be desired right now but Im not betting against that talent and massive improvement over 2 years.

Wiggins is much more of a sure thing.

going to sell myself on Monk only for him be snatched away. I'd love to be wrong about Frenchy.

who loves Frenchy, sell me on why he's even a better pick than Mitchell? I don't think the estimated 2 extra inches in wingspan is a huge deal. Mitchell is more of a sure thing, and the superior athlete. I don't even particularly want Mitchell at 8 but other than the fun of the unknown what makes Frenchy the superior pick between those 2?

Im not moving him for #3 if Im Minny. At age 21, he just completed a season where he scored 23.6 points on .473/.356/.76 shooting. So he can already do the thing that is typically the #1 factor for being a real top player in the league -- high volume scoring with decent efficiency. It's a very under-discussed talent. As his jumper finishes developing, I think it will help his drive game a lot, and then hopefully (for him) he learns to kick or dish to the big.

And he's got the athleticism to be an A+ defender. Notably he struggles a lot on that end now (KAT too). But I want to see his game when his body fills out and he has a few years with Thibs.

I just feel like the next 5 years of Wiggins is something you want to be signed up for.

is

Minny receives: #3, Covington and Justin Anderson

Chicago receives: Saric, Stauskas, Okafor, Dunn and the 2018 Lakers pick

Philly receives: Jimmy Butler, Lavine, #7 (which they take Monk with)

Philly's lineup:

Monk
Lavine
Butler
Simmons
Embiid/Holmes

Minny's lineup:

Ball/Fox
Wiggins
Anderson
Covington
KAT

Flip Rubio for Lee or something.

In comment 13501141 DanMetroMan said:

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who loves Frenchy, sell me on why he's even a better pick than Mitchell? I don't think the estimated 2 extra inches in wingspan is a huge deal. Mitchell is more of a sure thing, and the superior athlete. I don't even particularly want Mitchell at 8 but other than the fun of the unknown what makes Frenchy the superior pick between those 2?

this is exactly how I feel. If the knicks feel differently, I guess you have to hope they're better at scouting than I am. Frenchy doesn't seem like a very good athlete so I wonder how much of those little things he does well will carry over when playing against more skilled players who are also better athletes than he is.

In comment 13501141 DanMetroMan said:

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who loves Frenchy, sell me on why he's even a better pick than Mitchell? I don't think the estimated 2 extra inches in wingspan is a huge deal. Mitchell is more of a sure thing, and the superior athlete. I don't even particularly want Mitchell at 8 but other than the fun of the unknown what makes Frenchy the superior pick between those 2?

For me frank can play multiple positions and guard multiple positions..

he is noy pigeon holed to have to play point, he can play off the ball and be effective, he is a good shooter and his assists do not show his passing ability..

i think with his french team he was asked to defend and hit open shots, he was not asked to create as much because of his age, his handle is better than people think...

i thi k he can come in right away and be a 3 and d guy, and evolve into a point guard...

he is going to be the type of player you put on the best player to defend, offensively it is a mystery but he can shoot, the unknown is can he become a point guard or will he be a 2 guard that can cfeate

Smith, Monk and Tatum are universally regarded as higher upside prospects. To pass on any for Frenchy would be disappointing.

defensively I don't see why Mitchell can't guard 1's and 2's. He's 6'3 but has 6'10 wingspan, Frenchy is 6'5 with estimated 7'1 wingspan, if you think Frenchy can be a versatile defender why wouldn't Mitchell (the superior pure athlete)?

like the idea of not bothering with following "models". Build a team that you think can give the league trouble. Don't worry about what others are doing. Exploit teams with your strengths. KP is obviously the X-factor, teams are going to have TONS of issues dealing with a 7'3 3 point shooting freakazoid, I think Monk would be a similar potential issue (not saying Monk is as special as KP). But he's an explosive athlete who can light it up. Teams aren't going to love dealing with 2 3 point bombing guys who can beat you off the dribble.

I haven't seen any real evidence Monk is any "worse" at passing than Frenchy or Mitchell and I'm willing to accept that he didn't feel comfortable playing off the ball. The best players in HS almost never play off the ball. Instead of filling holes lets aim to gain an advantage at spots we can.

In comment 13501155 DanMetroMan said:

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defensively I don't see why Mitchell can't guard 1's and 2's. He's 6'3 but has 6'10 wingspan, Frenchy is 6'5 with estimated 7'1 wingspan, if you think Frenchy can be a versatile defender why wouldn't Mitchell (the superior pure athlete)?

i am not saying mitchell cant, i like mitchell to be honest, i just like frabk better...

i dont know i guess it is jist preference and i can see why frank scares people...

would i take him over monk, smith or tafum? no but if it is between frank and mitchell i am going frank

you put him on the best backcourt player, not any best player. I think his defensive prowess is more of a projection of his size for his position rather than actual defensive skill at this point.

And his 67 career assists to 40 TOs in under 18 basketball doesn't excite me too much on his handle despite the small sample size.

but I just think that he provides a plausible path to a team. Be it with the spacing of KP, Monk, and some 3 and Ds popping 3s all day, or a PnR offense with Willy (who I like a lot) with KP as a massive problem as a kickout option (because he clears a big from the middle).

philly, magic, knicks, suns

In comment 13501168 Deej said:

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but I just think that he provides a plausible path to a team. Be it with the spacing of KP, Monk, and some 3 and Ds popping 3s all day, or a PnR offense with Willy (who I like a lot) with KP as a massive problem as a kickout option (because he clears a big from the middle).

Basically this is my feeling. I'm not going to bother getting worked up about the triangle etc. I see a scenario where the Knicks identity is built around spreading the floor with KP and Monk from 3, open up some space for Willy... I just think they should take a guy who could be a true difference maker. I think all things considered the floor is extremely high for Monk (is there anyone doubting he can be a 12-15 point bench scorer "worst" case?) and I think the ceiling is pretty high too... a big time scorer.

In comment 13501153 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13501141 DanMetroMan said: Quote: who loves Frenchy, sell me on why he's even a better pick than Mitchell? I don't think the estimated 2 extra inches in wingspan is a huge deal. Mitchell is more of a sure thing, and the superior athlete. I don't even particularly want Mitchell at 8 but other than the fun of the unknown what makes Frenchy the superior pick between those 2? For me frank can play multiple positions and guard multiple positions.. he is noy pigeon holed to have to play point, he can play off the ball and be effective, he is a good shooter and his assists do not show his passing ability.. i think with his french team he was asked to defend and hit open shots, he was not asked to create as much because of his age, his handle is better than people think... i thi k he can come in right away and be a 3 and d guy, and evolve into a point guard... he is going to be the type of player you put on the best player to defend, offensively it is a mystery but he can shoot, the unknown is can he become a point guard or will he be a 2 guard that can cfeate

Adding to this with the caveat that I do think it's close. Frank is likely already a better defensive player and outside shooter. If you watch Frank's games he has great feel for the game and while he does gamble sometimes on disrupting the passing lanes, he's good at anticipating and using his length to steal the ball and set up fast breaks. He's also very good at using his body to fight through screens and recover from times when he whiffs on disrupting the passing lanes. He's also improved quite a bit from 3-pt land over the last few seasons which could be representative of his ceiling as a shooter being higher than people seem to think. It also tells me that given his age, intelligence, and work ethic, there's a higher likelihood of him reaching his full potential than the average prospect. I think he's a better athlete than people give him credit for which is a result of him not having a quick first step like a Fultz or Smith has. Other than that, the negatives are that he's only an okay ball handler and passer but those are easier to work on than shooting or defense.

I like Mitchell too and he's clearly the better athlete although he didn't get into the paint all that much which I don't know the reason as to why. He's also shorter than Frank which hurts his passing ability since he can't see over shooting guards if he's playing the 2. While I hate that we have to talk about it, in the triangle you need guards who can make quick decisions and hit guys cutting and anticipating where they'll be. His mid range game and ability and ability to create his own shot makes up for that given how well it fits the triangle. The gamble would be on Frank being younger and therefore being able to develop as a better offensive player outside of his outside shooting. Ill leave that up to Clarence Gaines though since it's very hard to tell what's there given how he's used today. You need two guys in the triangle who are at least decent at moving without the ball, hitting mid range shots, a threat to drive and score if that's what the defense gives you and quickly make reads on what the defense gives you. One needs to be a guard and that's why I think the Frank stuff is a smokescreen as he doesn't check all those boxes at least today and Monk or Mitchell will be the pick.

Nine points on 4-6 shooting at last check.

This would be a home run. Steve Kyler said that 7 and 12 are the most likely picks to be traded in the lottery and that both teams want proven veterans who can play for those demanding coaches and start to which someone asked:

Is Courtney Lee a player that's in that category of a win now veteran? Could Knicks swing a deal for 12?

Steve Kyler:
Very possible. Stan has an affection for Courtney. They kept in touch after he was traded out of Orlando.

Original tweet was:
Link - ( New Window )

is Jodie Meeks, who wasn't even close to the athlete Monk is. Meeks was a solid starting SG in his peak too, but not as skilled or explosive.

.

I think would be by trading KP or Willy, which I would not do. Maybe consider a top 8 pick for Willy but I like him and I have a hard time seeing another team who would value him as such.

perhaps the dream has a downside.

In comment 13501215 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

I think would be by trading KP or Willy, which I would not do. Maybe consider a top 8 pick for Willy but I like him and I have a hard time seeing another team who would value him as such.

Likely but you never know. Stan could get fired soon. That's a team that just wants to make the playoffs.

I'd look into Stanimal as a buy low. Not sure if he is available.

In comment 13501223 Deej said:

Quote:

In comment 13501215 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: I think would be by trading KP or Willy, which I would not do. Maybe consider a top 8 pick for Willy but I like him and I have a hard time seeing another team who would value him as such. Likely but you never know. Stan could get fired soon. That's a team that just wants to make the playoffs. I'd look into Stanimal as a buy low. Not sure if he is available.

Or Ellenson.

not buying Lee for 12. I think 12 lands you a better player than Lee and I think worst case they could send Stanimal AND 12 for a good veteran. Lee doesn't move the needle for the Pistons and I say that as someone who fully agrees Lee is worth a #1, just one in the 22-30 range.

expected to retire.

In comment 13501228 DanMetroMan said:

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not buying Lee for 12. I think 12 lands you a better player than Lee and I think worst case they could send Stanimal AND 12 for a good veteran. Lee doesn't move the needle for the Pistons and I say that as someone who fully agrees Lee is worth a #1, just one in the 22-30 range.

oh, I agree. but there are all sorts of deals out there that dont make 100% sense. Bargs.

In comment 13501232 DanMetroMan said:

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expected to retire.

He was a fun player to watch. He's who Willy reminded me of before he came over.

conducive to maintaining foot health.

In comment 13501236 Deej said:

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In comment 13501228 DanMetroMan said: Quote: not buying Lee for 12. I think 12 lands you a better player than Lee and I think worst case they could send Stanimal AND 12 for a good veteran. Lee doesn't move the needle for the Pistons and I say that as someone who fully agrees Lee is worth a #1, just one in the 22-30 range. oh, I agree. but there are all sorts of deals out there that dont make 100% sense. Bargs.

That's the thing. Everyone was shocked that the Knicks got a first for THJR in the late teens. Lee's contract also makes him a little more valuable given what guys got last year and will get this year.

before we get into value. KCP is a younger, better version of Lee. Why would they give up a lotto pick in a deep draft for a backup 33 year old?

went 6/11 from the field, 13 points 4 rebounds 3 assists 1 steal today

I sure hope I'm wrong but I would be shocked if the Pistons give up the 12th for Lee. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Pistons showed no interest in him as a free agent. Now they are giving up the 12th pick for him in a deep draft? I don't see it.

I keep going back and forth between DSJ and Monk, but I'm currently all in Monk. Which means he'll be gone or they pass on him.

In comment 13501274 Enzo said:

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Quote: Frank Isola‏Verified account @FisolaNYDN The Knicks have had a scout in Europe babysitting Frank Ntilikina. As of now, he's their man.

Man, everything he writes is for max douche effect

Frenchy would be playing for Kurt Rambis next year and throwing lobs to Greg Monroe. But we'll see - if my life depended on it, I'd guess Frenchy is our man.

say the least. Nothing about him screams star and we should be going with more risk to try and nab a star. I don't trust guards with underdeveloped handles, who struggles to create their own shot and lack plus athleticism.

The knicks have to take back an undesirable contract but not a brutally terrible one if they move lee for 12.

I think some would argue that Drummond or Jackson are their worst contracts, and both guys have positive value. Boban $7x2? I would take that without #12. Give it a go.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13501293 bceagle05 said:

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Frenchy would be playing for Kurt Rambis next year and throwing lobs to Greg Monroe. But we'll see - if my life depended on it, I'd guess Frenchy is our man.

Trying to process "lobs to Greg Monroe" in my head but its not computing.

I'll check back in the morning.

Signing Monroe as a free agent a couple years back was one of them.

In comment 13501419 bceagle05 said:

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Signing Monroe as a free agent a couple years back was one of them.

dont forget he then ripped the knicks constantly for. ot signing monroe because it made him look bad...

oh dont forget the isiah is running the knicks behind the scenes...

every time the knkcks work out someone who would be a reach the media claims the knicks eant them at 8...

first it was jackson, then mitcehell now its kennard

celtics still considering jackson at 1..

fultz worked out for lakers after he said he would only work out for celtics

Josh Jackson, Crowder, Bradley and Smart would make for some suffocating defense.

In comment 13501466 bceagle05 said:

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Josh Jackson, Crowder, Bradley and Smart would make for some suffocating defense.

They have brown. I think this is just Ainge doing Ainge things.

Will be a disappointment. Athlete not a skilled player.

why does Frank have any less upside than KP? Both are a similar age when they entered the league, good shooters/defenders without ability to create their own offense. Both plus defenders and great team players. What makes KP a star in the making and frank someone with a clear cap on his ceiling?

In comment 13501607 Jon in NYC said:

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why does Frank have any less upside than KP? Both are a similar age when they entered the league, good shooters/defenders without ability to create their own offense. Both plus defenders and great team players. What makes KP a star in the making and frank someone with a clear cap on his ceiling?

Um frank is an atrocious defender. There was a stretch where frank started for Charlotte when Zeller went down this past season and Charlotte got obliterated in the interior and on the glass. The two aren't comparable athletically.

Awful as a shooter in the NBA. I don't know why that part hasn't translated but he's been just flat out garbage beyond 10 feet in the NBA. Also a worse rebounder than KP.

KP:

10-16: 45%
16-23: 41%
3P: 35%

Frank:

10-16: 29%
16-23: 31%
3P: 33%

Rebounding :

KP: 13%

Frank: 10% (which is awful for a 4 let alone a 5)

I think he was talking about the French PG.

The answer I think is that KP is a better athlete for his position than Frank is. KP is 7'3. KP is/was a fantastic shooting prospect -- very fast release and good release point, mechanics, ability to shoot off movement at his size etc. Attitude, success in the 2nd best league...

I could go on, but I think the comparison of KP and Frank N. is a little silly. It permits no gradations of what they're good at.

Even those who like him say he's a sum of parts prospect. KP has a special skillset that has basically never been seen before at that size. To compare the two is farcical. If Frenchy were viewed to have similar upside he'd be in the mix top 3-5 and there is no indication that is the case. Scouts can be wrong but his "tools" are what they are physically outside of maturation. It's a silly comparison that seems like an attempt to sell yourself on Frencht

If you truly feel that way I have to assume your board includes Frenchy in the top 3 right? Because Jackson, Fox etc don't have KP upside. Ball and Fultz likely don't either but at least you can dream big on them being franchise players at the 1. The knock on KP was how raw (and thin- fair) supposedly was (despite doing work in the #2 league in the world). His physical tools were always evident/clear. Moves like a guard at 7'3 with a quick release, unafraid of contact (scouts say Frenchy has an aversion for contact and rarely drives to the hoop). I've accepted him as the pick but KP vs Frenchy upside wise isn't even close

his upside is with his defense, he is going to be a game changer on that end...

if he can tighten his handle and become a playmaker you got a chance at a superstar...

question is are you willing to take that risk

Frenchy's supposed best trait (defense) is based on the idea his wingspan will result in him being a plus defender. That being said his 7 foot wingspan (while fantastic) is only 2-3 inches more than Mitchell (a superior athlete) so it's not exactly clear why Frenchy is some sure thing lock down monster but Mitchell is not (for example). If anything I would sugggest the fact Frenchy isn't an amazing run jump quickness athlete his wingspan is partially overrated vs a guy with slightly lesser wingspan but a quicker/better athlere

how many top PG prospects with worries about their ability to create their own shot and average athleticism dramatically improve their handling and physical tools?

every day of the week over Frenchie. The former has elite D potential and tools for a guard, terrific run-jump ability, and has shown the FT% and 3 pt % to suggest he could become a good, if not great shooter in time.

In comment 13501637 nygiants16 said:

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his upside is with his defense, he is going to be a game changer on that end... if he can tighten his handle and become a playmaker you got a chance at a superstar... question is are you willing to take that risk

Cmon which superstar has that profile at pg? which pg in the NBA is a superstar based on his defense? Who is your projected best realistic case for Frenchy at pg ?

is the opposite of high-risk/reward; it's the fact that he can give you 3 & D right now despite having a ceiling (due to lack of plus athleticism and shot creation ability) compared to the other guard prospects.

In comment 13501650 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 13501637 nygiants16 said: Quote: his upside is with his defense, he is going to be a game changer on that end... if he can tighten his handle and become a playmaker you got a chance at a superstar... question is are you willing to take that risk Cmon which superstar has that profile at pg? which pg in the NBA is a superstar based on his defense? Who is your projected best realistic case for Frenchy at pg ?

i said if his handle and playmamomg ability improves he will be a superstar, i didnt say if he was just 3 and d he would be a superstar...

he will be able to change games as a defender but he wont be a superstar if his handle and playmaking do not improve .

the people who dont like him dont think it will improve, the people that do think it can...

realistically i see him as an avery bradley type of player...

In comment 13501655 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 13501650 DanMetroMan said: Quote: In comment 13501637 nygiants16 said: Quote: his upside is with his defense, he is going to be a game changer on that end... if he can tighten his handle and become a playmaker you got a chance at a superstar... question is are you willing to take that risk Cmon which superstar has that profile at pg? which pg in the NBA is a superstar based on his defense? Who is your projected best realistic case for Frenchy at pg ? i said if his handle and playmamomg ability improves he will be a superstar, i didnt say if he was just 3 and d he would be a superstar... he will be able to change games as a defender but he wont be a superstar if his handle and playmaking do not improve . the people who dont like him dont think it will improve, the people that do think it can... realistically i see him as an avery bradley type of player...

That's fair, but I think unless his mid-range game becomes a thing and he considerably improves his ballhandling, we're looking at a guy who will not be able to make his own offense. And that's also linked to his playmaking; if you're not a good ball-handler and if you don't present the threat of scoring on your own, it's difficult to be a lead guard, creating for others.

I'd like Frenchie at 12 or 13, not at 8 and not with the options likely to be available.

quickness. That's really under rating the physical tools Bradley has.

I pose this question Why is a 6'5 KP upside pg who only needs to tighten up his handle and improve as a playmaker falling to 8?

how many PG's come into the league who have below average ball-handling skills and develop those enough to create their own shots against NBA caliber athletes? How many manage to do that without plus athleticism (though in Frenchie's case that issue is mitigated to some extent by his height)?

By contrast, I think you've got a better shot turning a guy with elite shooting and athleticism into a passable distributor and lead guard (in today's NBA)(Monk) or taming a hero-ball player and having him play within the team concept (DSJ) and improve his shooting from average to good.

In comment 13501644 Ash_3 said:

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how many top PG prospects with worries about their ability to create their own shot and average athleticism dramatically improve their handling and physical tools?

This is exactly why I worry. Deangelo russel has some of the best handles in the league and it can't save him as far as shot creation goes. You're talking about a guy who dominated a major conference as a PG who is being limited to off ball duties entering year 3 in the league.

Have him in the 10-12 range and 8 guys I clearly want more. I like Collins more too but rough fit

In comment 13501661 Ash_3 said:

Quote:

how many PG's come into the league who have below average ball-handling skills and develop those enough to create their own shots against NBA caliber athletes? How many manage to do that without plus athleticism (though in Frenchie's case that issue is mitigated to some extent by his height)? By contrast, I think you've got a better shot turning a guy with elite shooting and athleticism into a passable distributor and lead guard (in today's NBA)(Monk) or taming a hero-ball player and having him play within the team concept (DSJ) and improve his shooting from average to good.

Yup. If there were proven examples of guards who came in as below average ball handlers and transitioned to elite I'd be better. But I can't think of one. I can think of a plethora of mediocre shooters that have vastly improved in the NBA, on the other hand.

Than Bradley with frank.

In comment 13501660 DanMetroMan said:

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I pose this question Why is a 6'5 KP upside pg who only needs to tighten up his handle and improve as a playmaker falling to 8?

my guess? he hasnt had a chance to workout or meet with teams and trams higher are not going to take that risk...

why did giannis not get picked higher? why did kawhi not get pi ked higher?

kp sky rocketed once his workout took place and he started meeting with teams...

plus this a pretty deep draft, i dont take him over the top guys, i dont take him over monk or smith

In comment 13501674 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

Than Bradley with frank.

except shumpert was a jump out of the gym prospect who couldnt shoot

In comment 13501675 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 13501660 DanMetroMan said: Quote: I pose this question Why is a 6'5 KP upside pg who only needs to tighten up his handle and improve as a playmaker falling to 8? my guess? he hasnt had a chance to workout or meet with teams and trams higher are not going to take that risk... why did giannis not get picked higher? why did kawhi not get pi ked higher? kp sky rocketed once his workout took place and he started meeting with teams... plus this a pretty deep draft, i dont take him over the top guys, i dont take him over monk or smith

Even those who like him think his upside is good starter. I haven't seen ANYONE (including Fraschilla who might be his biggest fan and has seen him numerous times in person) say his upside is anywhere near "superstar".

"Frank Ntilikina: �Well, the broader view here is there's likely to be five point guards drafted in the first 10. It's going to be interesting. And most likely because of the fact that people don't know him like they know the four college kids, he's going to go fifth,� Fraschilla said. �And what I love about him -- and by the way, I think he's going to be able to show you -- I hate to say this because I'm not a fan of the triangle, I think in the modern NBA the spacing doesn't work as well as it did in the old days, but he's a triangle kind of player, simply because he's not really a 1, and he's not really a 2. He's a guard.

�He can make decisions well. He shoots it well. He's athletic. He could be a good defender. And you're also looking at a kid who's still 18 years old. His long-term potential as an NBA player is very good. I watched him last summer at the Jordan Gym in New York City, and he made 27 out of 30 NBA 3s. I think people who didn't know him early on -- the obligatory line when you don't know somebody is, he's a really good athlete, but he's not a great shooter, and he's dispelling that this year in France, shooting over 40 percent from the international 3. He doesn't have the polish of a Fultz or Ball or the speed and athleticism or raw athleticism of Fox or Smith, but he has the look and feel of an NBA guard when he grows up.�

In comment 13501676 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 13501674 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: Than Bradley with frank. except shumpert was a jump out of the gym prospect who couldnt shoot

Bradley couldn't shoot either.

I'm comparing frank to the NBA versions of both players. Shumps like a 40% 3 point shooter now, was tried at PG but didn't have the handles or awareness to play guard.

I'd argue frank might have more PnR savvy than either shump or Bradley but i don't think he's comparable at all as an athlete.

critiquing him at all for this fact but apparently he may miss the deciding game 5 of the playoffs for the draft. That sucks.

West, from Sactown Royalty

"Ntilikina offers evidence of a complete offensive game with little surety beyond the fact that he�s a smart, developing kid. His basketball IQ is great for a 18-year-old, and he consistently made good decisions when he got the ball. He�s capable at attacking, and showed improvement in creating his and the team�s offense as the year went on. His ability in the pick-and-roll is dangerous, both due to his range, his 6�5 size allowing him sight over the defense, and his ability to pick the ball up and get to the basket if the defense hesitates.

He doesn't have the quickest shot, and he'll need to adjust to NBA players who will play close up against a 170 pound player with less-than-great burst, but the foundation to be a great-efficiency shooter is there. There isn�t enough in-game evidence to prove his three-point stroke is a dependable skill (he took 81 of them this year, making 41% of them), but his stroke is mechanical, consistent, and stretches a good few feet from the NBA three line. His role as the team�s secondary distributor also served to utilize him as a spot-up shooter, and defenses were wary of him regardless of his range. When he got hot in the U18 Championships (more on that later), he went full inferno�17-29 from three in the six game stretch. The biggest concern with his shot is his inconsistent free throw percentage� typically a great barometer for a player�s shooting ability, you don�t want to see a point guard hanging around in the mid-60s (65.9%).

His lead guard skills are still very much in development, from his court vision to his timing on passes when he's on the move. His passer willingness isn't a concern; he's in no way a ball-needy player and looks to make the right play or keep the offense moving. His read on what the defense would do to stop him as a scorer and as a distributor was sometimes excellent� and other times, it got him sent back to the bench because he didn't have any leash to be hurting the offense. He rarely showed much creativity with the ball on the dribble, and his own creation ability might be limited until he rounds that out to keep the defense on their toes. But again� that all comes down to getting the ball in his hands.

Trusting low-minute prospects is always difficult when considering Euro prospects who play in a veteran friendly environment. Where his shooting ability was greatly improved (and turned from a weakness into a strength) by forcing him to play off ball, the lack of extended time with the ball hides much. He could become one of the most well rounded point guards in the class, with his rapidly growing feel for the game and pass-first attitude. But in a class of points with enormous impact potentials and impact limiting weaknesses� it's fair to point out Ntilikina's 15.2% assist rate, 18.6% turnover ratio, and 16.8% usage rate in league play. Selecting Ntilikina means banking on those point-guard and shot-creation instincts he flashes becoming what defines him as a player.

His ideal size (6'5) and length are great NBA tools, but while he won't be left behind on the break, he doesn't have the speed or the burst to match the stars at the most star-heavy position in the league. Nothing about his tools will be a serious limit to his game, but his potential isn't in a game-altering toolbox that Markelle Fultz, De�Aaron Fox, Malik Monk, or Dennis Smith have.

Defensive Breakdown:

If not for De�Aaron Fox, Ntilikina would easily be the most engaged guard defender in the lottery. Given his short playtime leash, it�s no surprise Ntilikina learned he needed to make an impact defensively, and he consistently gives great effort that many young guards don�t make.

Just like De�Aaron Fox, however, Ntilikina needs to add serious muscle before he�ll be ready to defend NBA guards. The transition from a league where he could really work and opponent with his length and quickness to a league where his athletic ability is equal at best on most nights might be really, really rough on Ntilikina over the first year or two of his career. But he�s got the effort and the instincts to be a great defender as he develops.

Intangibles:

The real reason to be hyped about Ntilikina is the U18 European Championship. It�s the best case we have for Ntilikina�s NBA potential; given full control of the offense for the first time in such a professional setting, Ntilikina went to the hospital with the flu� and then came back to lead France to the title, won the tournament�s MVP award, and averaged 15.2 points and 4.5 assists on 31/62 from the field and 17/29 from three. In the final two games, he had 23 points and 9 assists followed up by 31 points on 11/16 shooting� aaannnnd then he went right back to averaging 19-25 minutes per game with Strasbourg. It�s not his fault that his French squad delegates him to a secondary ballhandler role with inconsistent minutes, but that means a lot is riding on one excellent weekend in the U18.

While it�s safe to say there will be more tape on the rest of the players around his draft range, Ntilikina isn�t a secret. The Basketball Champions League puts whole games up on Youtube, so while he doesn�t get a ton of minutes, there�s stuff to go off. And even with inconsistent minutes and his secondary-ball handler role, you can see the impact he makes on both ends. The lack of serious minutes could hide a player who doesn�t want to be the go-to ball handler� or it could have just been holding back a budding youngster playing in a veteran-loving Euro system.

Ntilikina doesn't have any buy-out concerns does he?

On another note, even if he is an Avery Bradley/ George Hill prospect (not a star but a good NBA player), it'll probably be a while before he establishes that level of play. If that is a fair statement, I'd love to draft a guy like Frank Mason...a guy who isn't likely to have a big learning curve and at the very least can be a Patty Mills type productivity wise. However, I truly think guys with his athleticism, skill set and mentality wind up far exceeding their draft slot (think Kyle Lowry).

we will all argue and debate for the next 6 days and we have absolutely no idea whats going to happen..

i love this time of year...

has been no mention of a buyout so even if he has one it's seemingly very minimal.

lets start obsessing now

is from Harlem, he will lead us to glory

as KP, when's the last time we saw a point guard with a 7' wingspan who shot 40% from 3?

There are very real worries with Frank, but he brings a very translatable skill set with a unique physical profile.

It's just weird to me to see the pro-KP crowd shit on Frank.

and and that;'s why I've been onboard.

In comment 13501757 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

as KP, when's the last time we saw a point guard with a 7' wingspan who shot 40% from 3? There are very real worries with Frank, but he brings a very translatable skill set with a unique physical profile. It's just weird to me to see the pro-KP crowd shit on Frank.

It's only weird given the way you present the analogy. KP and FN both have unique physical profiles. They both can shoot and both have the length to be difference makers on D.

That's the extent of the comparison. Beyond that, KP's skillset has matched well with the direction the NBA is going in. The most important skills a big man can provide in today's NBA is rim protection and shooting. KP is or projects as elite in both categories.

Guards today need to be able to create their own shot. It is hard to find good shot creators who lack both ball-handling and quick-twitch athleticism. FN lacks both. He projects as a fine player if things break right but the question of whether his skillset translates is distinct from the question of whether it is unique.

Fraschilla thinks KP is taking his talents elsewhere (not buying it) and advocates Isaac at 8 (REALLY doubt he's there) #Knicks

In comment 13501757 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

as KP, when's the last time we saw a point guard with a 7' wingspan who shot 40% from 3? There are very real worries with Frank, but he brings a very translatable skill set with a unique physical profile. It's just weird to me to see the pro-KP crowd shit on Frank.

Mitchell has 6'10 wingspan and 35% from 3, D'Angelo Russell 6'10 wingspan 41% from 3 in college. It's not some absolutely ridiculous combination like a 7'3 kid who can shoot from deep. Wingspan is great and all but it's not the end all be all.

is having a workout tomorrow, I hope we send someone. He sounds very intriguing.

In comment 13501757 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

as KP, when's the last time we saw a point guard with a 7' wingspan who shot 40% from 3? There are very real worries with Frank, but he brings a very translatable skill set with a unique physical profile. It's just weird to me to see the pro-KP crowd shit on Frank.

Last draft actually. Wade Baldwin.

In comment 13501685 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

He doesn't have the quickest shot, and he'll need to adjust to NBA players who will play close up against a 170 pound player with less-than-great burst, but the foundation to be a great-efficiency shooter is there. There isn�t enough in-game evidence to prove his three-point stroke is a dependable skill (he took 81 of them this year, making 41% of them), but his stroke is mechanical, consistent, and stretches a good few feet from the NBA three line. His role as the team�s secondary distributor also served to utilize him as a spot-up shooter, and defenses were wary of him regardless of his range. When he got hot in the U18 Championships (more on that later), he went full inferno�17-29 from three in the six game stretch. The biggest concern with his shot is his inconsistent free throw percentage� typically a great barometer for a player�s shooting ability, you don�t want to see a point guard hanging around in the mid-60s (65.9%).

I've seen people dismiss his 3s b/c of his FTs, but the fact is he didnt take a ton of either. FTs in particular -- just 29 FTA. The difference between 65% and 75% on 29 attempts is just just three makes.

He might be the 9th but how can you take him with one of the consensus 8 will be there for us? This should be an easy draft for Phil. Anyone hear how DSJ's workout went?

In comment 13501766 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Fraschilla thinks KP is taking his talents elsewhere (not buying it) and advocates Isaac at 8 (REALLY doubt he's there) #Knicks

Where did he suggest that KP would be going, back overseas?

and I might be being overly optimistic here, Deej's post yesterday about Phil Jackson being keenly aware of the importance of star power is instructive. KP is evidence of that. He was a boom or bust pick and it worked out. Frenchie's entire appeal seems to be how safe he is. I think we end up picking whichever player from the top 8 is available at 8 at 8.

From the limited tape I've seen of him and everything I've read, Frank just doesn't have that explosion to this game. Not overly quick or fast and doesn't finish at the rim with explosion. His shot release looks slow and his handle looks very loose. To me he just doesn't show that big time potential to his game. With a top 10 pick , I don't want a guy that could become a 3 and D guy. I want someone with a chance to develop into an all star. I'd rather bet on Monk or DSJ for that. You're just asking a lot to project that much development in Franks game.

In comment 13501770 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 13501757 Jon in NYC said: Quote: as KP, when's the last time we saw a point guard with a 7' wingspan who shot 40% from 3? There are very real worries with Frank, but he brings a very translatable skill set with a unique physical profile. It's just weird to me to see the pro-KP crowd shit on Frank. Mitchell has 6'10 wingspan and 35% from 3, D'Angelo Russell 6'10 wingspan 41% from 3 in college. It's not some absolutely ridiculous combination like a 7'3 kid who can shoot from deep. Wingspan is great and all but it's not the end all be all.

Yeah and Russell went 2nd overall despite questions about his attitude.

Frank has the physical profile and desire to be a very good defender. That's what differentiates them.

I'll take the guy with the high floor and desire to get better.

wildcard here is Isaac imo. I think he could easily fall to 8 and the Knicks would snap him up.

Is much more skilled than frank

In comment 13501797 Mike in NJ said:

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In comment 13501766 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Fraschilla thinks KP is taking his talents elsewhere (not buying it) and advocates Isaac at 8 (REALLY doubt he's there) #Knicks Where did he suggest that KP would be going, back overseas?

Signing with a winner when his contract is up.

.

In comment 13501820 Greg from LI said:

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.

Yeah and he's a really good player. He also has Frank by 5 years.

reporting lakers may be willing to trade 2 to the suns for 4 and a 2018 pick

In comment 13501825 Jon in NYC said:

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In comment 13501820 Greg from LI said: Quote: . Yeah and he's a really good player. He also has Frank by 5 years.

Brogdon also has 45 pounds on frank. Baldwin is much more similar in terms of build and strengths/weaknessss as a prospect

But would anyone trade #8 for him outside Greg?

Hmmmm Warriors would let Clark walk at 6-7 per? Might be worth a look #Knicks
Link - ( New Window )

is more offensively skilled than FN, but is the worst kind of player there is.

1 He's a high usage and inefficient guy on offense.
2 He's as bad as it gets on D.
3 his elevated opinion of himself gets in the way of a decent work ethic

He's exactly the kind of player that the NYK have collected for a while now, a loser player. He'll always be a stat hound on losing teams.

gamble on Clark at 3 for 18 pretty easily

In comment 13501834 nygiants16 said:

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reporting lakers may be willing to trade 2 to the suns for 4 and a 2018 pick

Don't they own the heat pick next year?

Ball and Booker is pretty interesting.

off the ball. He's pretty unselfish on the court and is a great spot up shooter. The defense will be a concern however. I think he's gonna be a solid starter down the line, but ultimately nothing elite.

In comment 13501860 giantsfan44ab said:

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In comment 13501834 nygiants16 said: Quote: reporting lakers may be willing to trade 2 to the suns for 4 and a 2018 pick Don't they own the heat pick next year? Ball and Booker is pretty interesting.

Wouldnt assume Ball. They said they want to try Booker in a Harden role. Could be Jackson or Isaac.

flanked by Chriss/Isaac would be a pretty nasty trio. I'm sure they could get a solid return for Bledsoe.

But I wouldn't rule out lonzo for that reason. Booker and Ball are both very capable of playing off ball. Bledsoe doesn't really work because he's not that great of a 3 point shooter. Ball can play the 2 just as well (probably a better fit for him defensively too).

DLO is a gifted passer but not unselfish. I think he likes to make the homerun pass, the ESPN highlight pass, but doesn't make the simple play. In short, the kid just doesn't "get it". '

I also doubt his ability to accept an "off the ball" role with Ball coming in and getting the monster attention he will.

the fact the Lakers wouldn't want Willy given the fact they have Zubac... IF the Lakers offered 2 for 8 and Willy would you do it?

In comment 13501880 DanMetroMan said:

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the fact the Lakers wouldn't want Willy given the fact they have Zubac... IF the Lakers offered 2 for 8 and Willy would you do it?

I don't think I would

In comment 13501875 giantsfan44ab said:

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But I wouldn't rule out lonzo for that reason. Booker and Ball are both very capable of playing off ball. Bledsoe doesn't really work because he's not that great of a 3 point shooter. Ball can play the 2 just as well (probably a better fit for him defensively too).

Lonzo off ball isnt nearly as valuable as on ball. I would not take him with the intention of playing him at the #2. There are better prospects than Lonzo Ball, Shooting Guard.

In comment 13501882 giantsfan44ab said:

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In comment 13501880 DanMetroMan said: Quote: the fact the Lakers wouldn't want Willy given the fact they have Zubac... IF the Lakers offered 2 for 8 and Willy would you do it? I don't think I would

I would. We're not going to get another Willy easily, but I think center is a pretty easy position to fill in the current NBA. And truth be told I'd prefer a better athlete/defender at the 5.

In comment 13501882 giantsfan44ab said:

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In comment 13501880 DanMetroMan said: Quote: the fact the Lakers wouldn't want Willy given the fact they have Zubac... IF the Lakers offered 2 for 8 and Willy would you do it? I don't think I would

Actually on 2nd thoughts if they signed a defensive presence like Dedmon to put next to KP full time I'd like to have Ball or Jackson.

In comment 13501888 Deej said:

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In comment 13501875 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: But I wouldn't rule out lonzo for that reason. Booker and Ball are both very capable of playing off ball. Bledsoe doesn't really work because he's not that great of a 3 point shooter. Ball can play the 2 just as well (probably a better fit for him defensively too). Lonzo off ball isnt nearly as valuable as on ball. I would not take him with the intention of playing him at the #2. There are better prospects than Lonzo Ball, Shooting Guard.

But at the same time is that a reason to take a consensus tier 2 player over a tier 1? Saying hypothetically, don't know how the suns value this class. To me you go talent and figure out fit later. It's never a bad thing to have two guys with the ability to play make.

In comment 13501892 giantsfan44ab said:

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In comment 13501882 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: In comment 13501880 DanMetroMan said: Quote: the fact the Lakers wouldn't want Willy given the fact they have Zubac... IF the Lakers offered 2 for 8 and Willy would you do it? I don't think I would Actually on 2nd thoughts if they signed a defensive presence like Dedmon to put next to KP full time I'd like to have Ball or Jackson.

I would. I like the idea of Ball with KP. A lot.

In comment 13501894 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

In comment 13501888 Deej said: Quote: In comment 13501875 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: But I wouldn't rule out lonzo for that reason. Booker and Ball are both very capable of playing off ball. Bledsoe doesn't really work because he's not that great of a 3 point shooter. Ball can play the 2 just as well (probably a better fit for him defensively too). Lonzo off ball isnt nearly as valuable as on ball. I would not take him with the intention of playing him at the #2. There are better prospects than Lonzo Ball, Shooting Guard. But at the same time is that a reason to take a consensus tier 2 player over a tier 1? Saying hypothetically, don't know how the suns value this class. To me you go talent and figure out fit later. It's never a bad thing to have two guys with the ability to play make.

Take Jackson. I think Ball would fuck up their Booker plans. I think he's not a very good shooter for a 2 guard, especially with his funky shot -- even the 3 might not work well in the NBA.

Say BPA all you want, but the Sixers took 3 centers and it fucked them.

As truly being a BPA. He was a poor man's enes kanter in my eyes. He was more of a "let's make the fans happy by taking the star player on a tourney champ" player available rather than best player available.

He might fuckup Booker at PG plans, but the fits there if the suns want it.

Okafor's fit was always questioned.

But yeah I'm high on jackson as well. It just seems Ball fits the Suns push everything in transition and launch 3s motto better than Jackson.

In comment 13501905 giantsfan44ab said:

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He might fuckup Booker at PG plans, but the fits there if the suns want it. Okafor's fit was always questioned. But yeah I'm high on jackson as well. It just seems Ball fits the Suns push everything in transition and launch 3s motto better than Jackson.

Except he doesnt fit their Booker at the 1 plan. What you're saying is, basically, dont do that. And maybe they will agree if Ball is available to them.

But my point was dont assume they'd trade up and pick Ball, because he's contrary to their plan of putting the offense in Booker's hands.

I was simply stating a Booker/ball backcourt would be pretty intriguing. That's all. Would it not? 2 guys that can push the pace. Ball might have a funky shot but he was incredibly efficient in spot up situations. Well beyond NBA range too. Jackson solves bigger issues on defense for them and is a facilitator in his own right without being ball dominant.

claims we are serious about Kennard at 8.

In comment 13502075 DanMetroMan said:

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claims we are serious about Kennard at 8.

Where's my barf bag?


Well, Rambis would love him. He can't guard for shit.

and will have trouble off the dribble in the NBA.

In comment 13501880 DanMetroMan said:

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the fact the Lakers wouldn't want Willy given the fact they have Zubac... IF the Lakers offered 2 for 8 and Willy would you do it?

Yes in a heartbeat. Willys a nice prospect on a fantastic contract but that's a no brainer to me. KP is the only untouchable on the Knicks. 8 to 2 is a huge jump.

But not 8. God no, not at 8.

needs to let RC Buford/Morey etc know that if they need to dump salary to add Chris Paul we are there for them.... at the price of picks/young talent. Use us baby!.

In comment 13502075 DanMetroMan said:

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claims we are serious about Kennard at 8.

That's a true remote thrower. This is what scares me about giving Phil another offseason. If they take Kennard I need to take a break from the Knicks.

That might not happen at the Knicks� summer-league in Orlando, with games starting July 1st. The Knicks want him to play. Baker is on the fence. It�s strictly business.

Undrafted last year (the Knicks didn�t have a pick), Baker signed to the rookie minimum of $541,000 after making the team out of training camp.

However, it was a one-year deal, and Baker becomes a restricted free agent July 1 and may draw outside interests. The Knicks can match any offer, but would have to use cap space if it�s beyond another minimum pact.

After the draft, four teams called Baker�s agent interested in signing him for summer league/training camp � Oklahoma City, which almost drafted him and is located an hour from his hometown of Scott City, Kansas, the Nets, the Cavaliers and Bulls. There�s keen mutual interest in re-signing but money has to be a factor.

He's a guy who comes off the bench to shoot 5-8 3s in 10-15 minutes. That's it.

The Knicks aren't doing all this scouting of Monk, Smith and Frank so they can turn around and reach for Kennard at eight. Either they have a trade down in mind or think they have another first coming their way. Or Kennard is this year's Trey Lyles.

I assume our three picks will play but who else?

In comment 13502114 bceagle05 said:

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The Knicks aren't doing all this scouting of Monk, Smith and Frank so they can turn around and reach for Kennard at eight. Either they have a trade down in mind or think they have another first coming their way. Or Kennard is this year's Trey Lyles.

In fairness they just had Kennard in for a private workout and it's been noted he outplayed 2 other "first round locks" in other workouts (one apparently was Turd Ferguson).

In comment 13502123 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 13502114 bceagle05 said: Quote: The Knicks aren't doing all this scouting of Monk, Smith and Frank so they can turn around and reach for Kennard at eight. Either they have a trade down in mind or think they have another first coming their way. Or Kennard is this year's Trey Lyles. In fairness they just had Kennard in for a private workout and it's been noted he outplayed 2 other "first round locks" in other workouts (one apparently was Turd Ferguson).

Oh shit....haha

jackson and kennard sounds like lyles and kaminsky all over again...

2 years night before draft chad ford said knicks do not like anyone and are looking to trade back to take lyles or kaminsky...

chad ford is a hack

to meet with the Celtics wow.

guessing the Celtics are meeting with DSJ in case they pull the trigger on the 5 and 10 rumor.

In comment 13502182 DanMetroMan said:

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guessing the Celtics are meeting with DSJ in case they pull the trigger on the 5 and 10 rumor.

i have a feeling there is a lot of movement thursday...

supposedly portland has not worked anyonr out since monday

topic but funny that everyone insists nobody wants to go to Utah and Lillard (oddly) noted if he left Portland he'd go to LAL or Utah.

just won finals MVP of whatever league he's in. Kings baby!

8. New York Knicks: Dennis Smith, PG, NC State | Freshman

The Knicks should use this summer to hit the reset button, forgoing win-now trades and signings in favor of forward-thinking moves to surround center Kristaps Porzingis with young talent. That means moving on from Derrick Rose and refraining from acquiring another veteran point guard, like Jrue Holiday or Ricky Rubio. Instead, they can nab their PG of the future in Smith, whose ability to manufacture offense off the dribble and top-tier athleticism have gone under-appreciated amid the tidal wave of hype generated by other prospects at his position, like Fultz, Fox and Ball.


Knicks pass on Tatum, Frenchy and Monk... who falls to 14
Link - ( New Window )

crabbe harkless 15 20 26 for lee, oquin. amd 8 would you do it?

In comment 13502230 nygiants16 said:

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crabbe harkless 15 20 26 for lee, oquin. amd 8 would you do it?

Nope, not me. Odds are the player at 8 would be the best one in that deal.

In comment 13502245 Heisenberg said:

Quote:

In comment 13502230 nygiants16 said: Quote: crabbe harkless 15 20 26 for lee, oquin. amd 8 would you do it? Nope, not me. Odds are the player at 8 would be the best one in that deal.

yeah i am not sure either, i know if smith, tatum or mpnk is sittinf there i am not doing it...

if all 3 were gone i would probably think about it

over Tatum. Other than wingspan (which now has become our equivalent of the three-cone drill), he has the sort of physical ability and ball-handling that might well be unplayable with NBA spacing.

would be incredible. I wonder who we'd take? I'd say Tatum.

with DSJ is his attitude. We need two way players who will buy into a team system.

Regardless, it sounds like he'll be gone.

Jonathan Givony‏Verified account @DraftExpress 6m6 minutes ago
More
Word out of LA is Markelle Fultz "murdered" his Lakers workout yesterday. May be "the best one" they've seen. Sadly, likely all for naught.
1 reply 73 retweets 11 likes
Reply 1 Retweeted 73 Like 11 Direct message
Jonathan Givony‏Verified account @DraftExpress 5m5 minutes ago
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I'm told Fultz played competitively 2 on 2, even though that wasn't agreed to in advance. Apparently shot ball very well.Tested 40 inch vert
1 reply 10 retweets 5 likes
Reply 1 Retweet 10 Like 5 Direct message
Jonathan Givony‏Verified account @DraftExpress 5m5 minutes ago
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Multiple sources have told me that Magic "is in love" with Fultz. May try to move up to #1, possibly with a Julius Randle + #2 pick offer.

to the 76ers?

Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account @WojVerticalNBA 13s14 seconds ago
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Sources: Philadelphia is waiting on medical information on Markelle Fultz, but deep into talks on acquiring Boston's No. 1 overall pick.

It's the Lakers pick next year and the Sixers pick this year as the core of the deal.

Celtics are believed to want Tatum at 3.

makes sense for both teams if BOS isnt sold on Fultz as a cut above. BOS may even need to give back something.

OTOH, Randle had a really good season. The assist #s were eye popping. Also, he's now JACKED. See link. It all depends on what you think of JR and whether you're ready to pay him next summer.
Link - ( New Window )

deal does NOT include Randle per sources. Expected to be Sixers 1st and a future #1 (likely the LAL unprotected pick)

1. Fultz
2. ??
3. Tatum
4. Suns
5. SacTown... Ball to Sacramento would be too funny for Lavar

#2 and Randle vs. #3 and Lakers #1 next season (call it top 5). I'd probably lean with Philly's package, although Randle would address the PF/reb issue in Boston ASAP.

I think Ainge is punting. Keep this team together, fine, but the window is post GSW for anyone who can wait.

There or LA. If Im PHX, I dont subject Booker to constant public callouts from Lavar every time Booker has an off night or misses the tying/winning shot. In LA or SAC, it can be the Lonzo show.

should take Isaac. Isaac+Chriss doing some of the dirty work and Booker the Harden. Deal Bledsoe (who should bring back a decent return), Bender was horrendous but he still has a "shot" to be something.

In comment 13502319 DanMetroMan said:

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should take Isaac. Isaac+Chriss doing some of the dirty work and Booker the Harden. Deal Bledsoe (who should bring back a decent return), Bender was horrendous but he still has a "shot" to be something.

How about Toby Harris and #12?

In comment 13502320 Deej said:

Quote:

In comment 13502319 DanMetroMan said: Quote: should take Isaac. Isaac+Chriss doing some of the dirty work and Booker the Harden. Deal Bledsoe (who should bring back a decent return), Bender was horrendous but he still has a "shot" to be something. How about Toby Harris and #12?

That's actually a pretty solid deal. That makes sense to me. The Suns are in a pretty prime position with Bledsoe being a good player with a solid contract that likely has value + Booker/Chriss to build on. Bender was REALLY bad but I'm willing to give a guy a second year before 100% calling him a bust. If you added in Harris and whomever you want at 12... that could be something pretty nice.

how about Bledsoe for Thon?

In comment 13502313 DanMetroMan said:

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deal does NOT include Randle per sources. Expected to be Sixers 1st and a future #1 (likely the LAL unprotected pick) 1. Fultz 2. ?? 3. Tatum 4. Suns 5. SacTown... Ball to Sacramento would be too funny for Lavar

And remember that Jackson supposedly got a top-3 guarantee. So Jackson could go #2 and Ball could drop a bit.


Exciting times

so fulz, jackson tatum isaac, does sac go fox who they supposedly love or take ball?

you would assume ball would not get passed orlando

That's an absolutely sick team

Jonathan Givony ✔@DraftExpress
Also was told that Josh Jackson's workout in LA "did not go well at all." Brought high energy but struggled with his shooting and handle.


So what would the Lakers do then if no Jackson or Ball?

Timberwolves screw the Knicks YET AGAIN by taking either Ball, Jackson or Tatum

In comment 13502306 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Jonathan Givony‏Verified account @DraftExpress 6m6 minutes ago More Word out of LA is Markelle Fultz "murdered" his Lakers workout yesterday. May be "the best one" they've seen. Sadly, likely all for naught. 1 reply 73 retweets 11 likes Reply 1 Retweeted 73 Like 11 Direct message Jonathan Givony‏Verified account @DraftExpress 5m5 minutes ago More I'm told Fultz played competitively 2 on 2, even though that wasn't agreed to in advance. Apparently shot ball very well.Tested 40 inch vert 1 reply 10 retweets 5 likes Reply 1 Retweet 10 Like 5 Direct message Jonathan Givony‏Verified account @DraftExpress 5m5 minutes ago More Multiple sources have told me that Magic "is in love" with Fultz. May try to move up to #1, possibly with a Julius Randle + #2 pick offer.

So it's basically the Sixers and Lakers in a bidding war to move up to #1 to Fultz. Celtics should get a king's ransom.


So the Sixers improve; the Celtics improve (now and for the future) and the Knicks...well, we've got Ron Baker.

In comment 13502345 Anakim said:

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Timberwolves screw the Knicks YET AGAIN by taking either Ball, Jackson or Tatum

I share your frustration, as do all of us I'm sure. Sucks to have to sit back and watch Boston and Philly build great young teams while we.....do whatever it is we're doing. And I fucking hate Minnesota - the only solace I take is that Minny's been picking in the top 10 my entire life and they still suck.

sixers have been tanking for how long?

the celtics are set for the future? lets see who they draft first, ainge has not been the best drafter...

relax, breathe

In comment 13502230 nygiants16 said:

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crabbe harkless 15 20 26 for lee, oquin. amd 8 would you do it?

No

In comment 13502403 nygiants16 said:

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sixers have been tanking for how long? the celtics are set for the future? lets see who they draft first, ainge has not been the best drafter... relax, breathe

Sixers for one whole entire year before the Knicks.

When has ainge fucked up a top pick? His job is pretty clear cut this year.

individual workouts. Get the interview part. Why the workout on the court? Isnt there enough game video of the players in actual game action.

In comment 13502625 XBRONX said:

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individual workouts. Get the interview part. Why the workout on the court? Isnt there enough game video of the players in actual game action.

i think especially with top picks os to see how they take to coaching also to see what kind of shape they are in

In comment 13502604 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

In comment 13502403 nygiants16 said: Quote: sixers have been tanking for how long? the celtics are set for the future? lets see who they draft first, ainge has not been the best drafter... relax, breathe Sixers for one whole entire year before the Knicks. When has ainge fucked up a top pick? His job is pretty clear cut this year.

if its true that the deal may be bigger to involvr butler it would be the dumbest movr aingr can make, they are not beating cleveland or gs...

and what high pick has ainge had that he kept and the celtics developed? brown right now is an unknown, he always goes for the quick fix...

and sixers have been tanking only 1 year more than the knicks? seriously? knicks 1 amd only tank is kp, sixers have how many top picks?

sixers should be a playoff team by now with all the picks they have had

The year before they slightly missed the playoffs and traded holiday for Noel and drafted MCW with their own pick.

So Embiid (2014) is their first actual top pick they got from tanking. Then okafor then Simmons. So the Knicks actually started their slide the same year philly started tanking, only the Knicks didn't have their pick I believe that year. It just seems like philly has been longer since they didn't trade their firsts.

He hit on Bradley. Smarts not amazing but not horrible given his draft year. Brown is gonna make an all rookie team, probably still goes top 5 in a redraft.

Ainge isn't some stellar drafter but I don't think he's a scrub either. He's probably a B- drafter and an A manager.

In comment 13502625 XBRONX said:

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individual workouts. Get the interview part. Why the workout on the court? Isnt there enough game video of the players in actual game action.

I think basketball men would say that there is no substitute for seeing players live, with their own eyes. See how a guy moves, how he cuts, little things about mechanics etc. See what he has been doing since March re shooting/body work. See how he take coaching, how competitive he is in practice, and how he takes an elbow in the back.

Knicks tanked intentionally? Not as if yet!

In comment 13502780 Carl in CT said:

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Knicks tanked intentionally? Not as if yet!

15 they tanked intentionally after melo goy hurt, they traded away smith and shump for nothing, they tanked

they didnt tank as much as get out from contracts/players they didnt want. It's a question of intent -- was the Cavs trade about getting worse for a better pick/acquiring a future asset, or was it about getting out from JR's contract and getting two guys who Phil thought were losers off the team.

When we rested players we still played to win.