for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NFT: NYK - draft/trade talk

Pep22 : 6/15/2017 9:27 am
I can't take credit for this. Saw this on a NYK fan site and then looked him up. Player's name is Deonte Burton. Very unusual size at 6'5" (in shoes as NBA players are measured), 260 lb and a 7' wingspan.

Pluses:

1 very mentally and physically tough (a trait NYK has desperately lacked)

2 multi-skilled (shooting, handle, passing, defending)

3 uses lefty-ness in Zach Randolph kind of way (you know he's going left, but he gets there any way with varied release points and funky interior moves)

Minus:

1 height/weight

2 not a great athlete by any stretch but not bad either

He will likely be there at 58.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 | Show All |  Next>>
Melo  
Pep22 : 6/15/2017 9:32 am : link
I believe it is the case that NYK can "stretch" Melo (allocate 54mm owed over 5 seasons) if released prior to Aug 31. If true, this may be a better outcome than some forced trade/salary commitment for Redick.
stretching Melo's contract  
Enzo : 6/15/2017 9:38 am : link
is even dumber than buying him out.
Kings  
DanMetroMan : 6/15/2017 9:46 am : link
have discussed 5 and 10 for 3 but Vlade wants "a lot more" to pull the trigger (as he should).
Burton was in the 2014 draft  
giantsfan44ab : 6/15/2017 9:48 am : link
Is he entering the draft again or are they looking at him as a FA signing? CAN you even enter a draft twice? I feel like some euro player did that recently.
I wouldn't stretch Melo.  
Carl in CT : 6/15/2017 9:48 am : link
You have Noah also on the books. Get through the contracts, get younger players and don't burden the future. Feed it!
I hate when  
Pep22 : 6/15/2017 9:50 am : link
comments are made without context. Yesterday I saw a hockey thread where a person posted it would be dumb to trade NYR Derek Stepan. Well, how do you know when you don't know yet what may be received?

When you say it would be dumb to buy out or stretch Melo, there needs to be context to evaluate i.e.

Door # 1 - keep him

Door # 2 - trade him (need to know what the return is)

Door # 3 - buy him out

Door # 4 - need to understand this relative to other options i.e. what can the decrease per the stretch be spent on via FA
Tjarks  
DanMetroMan : 6/15/2017 9:50 am : link
talks up Jonah Bolden as a potential sleeper round 2. Sounds very, very, very intriguing
Link - ( New Window )
.  
DanMetroMan : 6/15/2017 9:51 am : link
Michael Scotto‏Verified account
@MikeAScotto
Following
More
Dennis Smith will have the Timberwolves, Knicks, Mavericks, Hornets, Pistons and Heat attend his Pro Day, sources told Basketball Insiders.
RE: Kings  
giantsfan44ab : 6/15/2017 9:51 am : link
In comment 13500710 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
have discussed 5 and 10 for 3 but Vlade wants "a lot more" to pull the trigger (as he should).


Philly has enough peripheral assets to get that done. Luwawu, Korkmaz, Anderson, Covington, okafor. Would make sense for both teams. Getting monk and Mitchell/Ntilikina/Kennard would be a solid grab for philly.
Bolden  
Pep22 : 6/15/2017 9:53 am : link
looks similar to Marques Chriss (a good thing considering where he's projected)
Kings  
DanMetroMan : 6/15/2017 9:53 am : link
are my new guilty pleasure. Get that value Vlade! Go Sac-Town!
Pep  
giantsfan44ab : 6/15/2017 9:53 am : link
The point is why do the Knicks NEED to make a splash this offseason? That's the only reason to stretch him. This team has nothing it needs to go on a spending spree. so take the band aid off quickly instead of peeling it slowly.
RE: .  
nygiants16 : 6/15/2017 9:54 am : link
In comment 13500727 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Michael Scotto‏Verified account
@MikeAScotto
Following
More
Dennis Smith will have the Timberwolves, Knicks, Mavericks, Hornets, Pistons and Heat attend his Pro Day, sources told Basketball Insiders.


makes you wonder if smith had some sort of injury whem he visited knicks
RE: stretching Melo's contract  
Deej : 6/15/2017 10:01 am : link
In comment 13500704 Enzo said:
Quote:
is even dumber than buying him out.


I dont even see a counterargument one could muster.

WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU EXTEND THE PAIN OF MELO'S BUYOUT OVER 5 SEASONS? Do you need the money now? For what? A title run? The fact that an option exists doesnt make it worth considering. How about the fact that Melo might opt out?

Berman wrote about this in the post today. A whole article about using the stretch on Melo. Clearly because he was required to submit an article and had nothing to write about. Berman IMO is also the dumbest guy covering the Knicks. There is never a conception of long term planning in his pieces. Everything is a suggestion about how we can get marginally better in the short term.
Unless some mega-star free agent  
Enzo : 6/15/2017 10:03 am : link
decides he wants to come here - which isn't happening - there's no "context" that makes stretching Melo a smart idea for this summer. And even then, there's other methods they can use to clear cap space.
I like the Nuggets to make the playoffs next year  
giantsfan44ab : 6/15/2017 10:09 am : link
over the Wolves, Pelicans and Blazers. Wolves I think will get better and have more potential but aren't ready quite yet. Pelicans need 60 points and 30 boards from their front court to win every night if Holiday dips. They got a good formula to take on the warriors just an awful cap structure that limits their ceiling.

Jokic orchestrated the #1 regular season offense this past year. Jamal Murray has the makings of a 20+ ppg scorer. Harris is a high end 3 and D player. If the other hernangomez is as good as billed they have a tremendous stretch 4. They're missing another stud defender but if they swing right on a high risk/reward pick like Giles or OG they're onto something. That's not even including the really solid vets they have in Chandler, Barton, Gallo, plumlee and Faried. And whatever mudiay is.
I  
DanMetroMan : 6/15/2017 10:14 am : link
think this is the year the Wolves finally improve and make the playoffs. They started the season absolutely horribly which took a lot of air out of the balloon. I think they win 40+ this season.
west  
Pep22 : 6/15/2017 10:21 am : link
I'd rank them as follows now:

1 GSW
2 Hou
3 Utah if GH stays
4 SAS
5 Portland
6 LAC
7 Minny
8 Den

I don't think what OKC did last year is sustainable. One guy doing everything.
I'm going to operate  
Enzo : 6/15/2017 10:22 am : link
under the assumption that Phil is going to spend to the cap like he has the prior 2 offseasons. In that scenario, what value free agents might we have a chance at? I'm thinking contracts similar to what Lee received last summer. Obviously this team needs guards and wings...but it seems like anyone decent is going to command big dollars this summer.
I don't see how anyone can make even a somewhat reasonable  
Keith : 6/15/2017 10:23 am : link
case for using the stretch on Melo. It's about as bad of an idea as possible for this current team.
Ian  
DanMetroMan : 6/15/2017 10:28 am : link
Clark, Dedmon, Shelvin Mack, Motiejunas, Muscala, Ennis, Patterson, Waiters, James Johnson, Ilyasova, Tyreke Evans, Beasley, Willie Reed
Don't know how OKC  
giantsfan44ab : 6/15/2017 10:31 am : link
Is "one guy doing everything". They had a top 10 defense and Westbrook was the one guy getting shit on for not trying on defense. Adams, oladipo, Roberson all Did their share, just not On offense. Offense is merely half the game. Leaps and bounds ahead of Portland.
Enzo  
Pep22 : 6/15/2017 10:39 am : link
yeah I'm dying to know the plan as well, but so many moving pieces given notion of Melo, Lee and/or KOQ being traded, whomever we get at 8, and whether he is capable of being honest and responsible about the state of the union and not pursuing a low end playoff spot (and failing) and instead making a real commitment to a rebuild and looking like this:

PG: Rubio (for Lee), Baker, Randle
SG: Monk (8), Evan Turner (for 15, 26)
SF: Justin Jackson (15), Shabazz Muhammed (if cheap contract, low risk), Kooz
PF: KP, DJ Wilson (26), Burton (44)
C: Hernangomez, KOQ, Noah
I liked Portland  
Pep22 : 6/15/2017 10:40 am : link
after their trade
my surprise trade this year  
nygiants16 : 6/15/2017 10:51 am : link
is damian lillard obviously not to knicks
RE: Enzo  
Vanzetti : 6/15/2017 11:07 am : link
In comment 13500820 Pep22 said:
Quote:
yeah I'm dying to know the plan as well, but so many moving pieces given notion of Melo, Lee and/or KOQ being traded, whomever we get at 8, and whether he is capable of being honest and responsible about the state of the union and not pursuing a low end playoff spot (and failing) and instead making a real commitment to a rebuild and looking like this:

PG: Rubio (for Lee), Baker, Randle
SG: Monk (8), Evan Turner (for 15, 26)
SF: Justin Jackson (15), Shabazz Muhammed (if cheap contract, low risk), Kooz
PF: KP, DJ Wilson (26), Burton (44)
C: Hernangomez, KOQ, Noah


That lineup would win about 30 games and then you are stuck with a bunch of bloated contracts.

RE: RE: Enzo  
giantsfan44ab : 6/15/2017 11:09 am : link
In comment 13500860 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 13500820 Pep22 said:


Quote:


yeah I'm dying to know the plan as well, but so many moving pieces given notion of Melo, Lee and/or KOQ being traded, whomever we get at 8, and whether he is capable of being honest and responsible about the state of the union and not pursuing a low end playoff spot (and failing) and instead making a real commitment to a rebuild and looking like this:

PG: Rubio (for Lee), Baker, Randle
SG: Monk (8), Evan Turner (for 15, 26)
SF: Justin Jackson (15), Shabazz Muhammed (if cheap contract, low risk), Kooz
PF: KP, DJ Wilson (26), Burton (44)
C: Hernangomez, KOQ, Noah



That lineup would win about 30 games and then you are stuck with a bunch of bloated contracts.


Hopefully less games
I  
DanMetroMan : 6/15/2017 11:13 am : link
suspect Muhammad gets more money than people expect given his age, the metrics surprisingly "like" him more than you would think given his utter lack of passing. He'd be a nice gamble for a team like the Nets. For the Knicks he seems like an odd fit given his game. He's basically 100% ISO.
RE: RE: Enzo  
Heisenberg : 6/15/2017 11:19 am : link
In comment 13500860 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 13500820 Pep22 said:


Quote:


yeah I'm dying to know the plan as well, but so many moving pieces given notion of Melo, Lee and/or KOQ being traded, whomever we get at 8, and whether he is capable of being honest and responsible about the state of the union and not pursuing a low end playoff spot (and failing) and instead making a real commitment to a rebuild and looking like this:

PG: Rubio (for Lee), Baker, Randle
SG: Monk (8), Evan Turner (for 15, 26)
SF: Justin Jackson (15), Shabazz Muhammed (if cheap contract, low risk), Kooz
PF: KP, DJ Wilson (26), Burton (44)
C: Hernangomez, KOQ, Noah



That lineup would win about 30 games and then you are stuck with a bunch of bloated contracts.


He forgot Lance Thomas which would probably increase the win total to like 50 games.
RE: Kings  
Chris in Philly : 6/15/2017 11:20 am : link
In comment 13500710 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
have discussed 5 and 10 for 3 but Vlade wants "a lot more" to pull the trigger (as he should).


Counterpoint: Vlade is a moron who was fleeced by Sam Hinkie. That 3 was their original pick...
RE: I  
Deej : 6/15/2017 11:23 am : link
In comment 13500870 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
suspect Muhammad gets more money than people expect given his age, the metrics surprisingly "like" him more than you would think given his utter lack of passing. He'd be a nice gamble for a team like the Nets. For the Knicks he seems like an odd fit given his game. He's basically 100% ISO.


Plus there is just a ton of money that NEEDS to be spent to get to cap floors.

I do wonder whether there is going to be a trend in the league where more GMs recognize that player X is talented but maybe isnt conducive to winning. E.g. do you want to pay real month to Shabbaz and have him clog your offense up? Do you want to trade for Drummond when he can be hack-a-Shaq'd to death? Love, when he can neither guard the perimeter or rim protect? Obviously these guys dont PREVENT you from winnings, but in a cap league how much can you pay for guys with fatal flaws in their game? Shabbaz isnt getting megabux, but even in the 10-15 range (look at the PER & WS48), seems like a bad investment.

OTOH, top 5 players help cover the warts of others, and there are not as many "no drawback" players as there are teams that would like them. That's why I think 3 years of Courtney Lee should get us a late #1. Courtney Lee isnt gonna mess up your offense/defense.
Bloated contracts?  
Pep22 : 6/15/2017 11:28 am : link
One guy making 13mm, another making 16mm. (and we can't do anything about Noah). That is 47mm, less than half the cap.

Young pieces: Baker, Monk, Jackson, KP, Wilson, Hernangomez.

Rubio serves to change the culture from selfishness to sharing of the basketball, helping all the kids grow as players.

Turner is useful, albeit with his disgusting contract. But I'd trade cap room (that won't attract meaningful players) for Jackson, Wilson.

_________________________________________________


PG: Rubio (for Lee), Baker, Randle
SG: Monk (8), Evan Turner (for 15, 26)
SF: Justin Jackson (15), Shabazz Muhammed (if cheap contract, low risk), Kooz
PF: KP, DJ Wilson (26), Burton (44)
C: Hernangomez, KOQ, Noah
I'll  
DanMetroMan : 6/15/2017 12:23 pm : link
just leave this here...
"Derrick loves New York and wants to be there," Rose's agent, B.J. Armstrong, told Bleacher Report recently. "We've expressed that to them and been very consistent about it. Whether it happens is on them; all we can do is be clear."
Melo and Rose are coming back  
Deej : 6/15/2017 12:27 pm : link
and we're gonna hear about "organic growth".
.  
DanMetroMan : 6/15/2017 12:34 pm : link
Kevin Pelton's draft projections for the 2017 class has Lonzo Ball ranked first ahead of Markelle Fultz and Jonathan Isaac.

Pelton's model estimates the number of wins above replacement player each player will average during his first five seasons in the NBA. The two components of the model takes translated college/international performance and adds in age.

Dennis Smith Jr. and Zach Collins round out the top-5 while Josh Jackson ranks sixth. De'Aaron Fox, who is expected to be a top-5 pick, ranks 10th.
One of them needs to go. Period.  
Ash_3 : 6/15/2017 12:36 pm : link
Ideally Rose because he offers less to the team and actively stunts KP's growth.

The culture around this team is toxic. Usually I worry about talent first, and then culture, but this team has stunk for so long and we finally have a franchise cornerstone (who has already shown signs of frustration); it's important to nip this in the bud.

There's a plausible route to being an ECF contender or more within 3-4 years but it depends on a happy and flourishing KP.
I  
DanMetroMan : 6/15/2017 12:38 pm : link
think Rose remaining is worse than Melo by a significant margin. Melo is a better player who actually has a positive relationship with KP. KP himself basically said Rose doesn't talk. Ideally both are gone but Rose directly impacts KP/Willy's touches and the quality of said touches.
RE: I'll  
giantsfan44ab : 6/15/2017 12:39 pm : link
In comment 13500935 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
just leave this here...
"Derrick loves New York and wants to be there," Rose's agent, B.J. Armstrong, told Bleacher Report recently. "We've expressed that to them and been very consistent about it. Whether it happens is on them; all we can do is be clear."


Is BJ Armstrong actually his agent or is that a sarcastic quip? Is it bad that neither would shock me?
RE: RE: I'll  
DanMetroMan : 6/15/2017 12:43 pm : link
In comment 13500959 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13500935 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


just leave this here...
"Derrick loves New York and wants to be there," Rose's agent, B.J. Armstrong, told Bleacher Report recently. "We've expressed that to them and been very consistent about it. Whether it happens is on them; all we can do is be clear."



Is BJ Armstrong actually his agent or is that a sarcastic quip? Is it bad that neither would shock me?


He's legit his agent
paet of me wants rose back  
nygiants16 : 6/15/2017 12:44 pm : link
just tp watch bbi knicks fans heads explode
No, BJ's his agent.  
bceagle05 : 6/15/2017 12:45 pm : link
I don't know if I can even watch Knicks games next season if Rose or Melo is still here. I just can't stomach either of them.
And yesterday's  
Ash_3 : 6/15/2017 12:45 pm : link
Monk thread was good. I've been warming to the idea of drafting him so long as we're committed to making him a 1. Porzingis and Monk would go a long way towards making us a good shooting team and both would be here long after Phil leaves. A creative coaching stuff would figure out how best to leverage two elite shooters.
I can't see the point of keeping Rose AND Melo here.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/15/2017 12:52 pm : link
What exactly are you trying to build by giving big money to TWO guys who have made it competing is not their first priority.
I've  
DanMetroMan : 6/15/2017 12:59 pm : link
really warmed to Monk if we are willing to legit give him a shot at the 1.

1. Fultz
2. Ball
3. Jackson
4. Isaac
5. Fox
6. DSJ
7. Tatum
8. Monk

Gimme one....Holler if you hear me
^i like that  
giantsfan44ab : 6/15/2017 1:02 pm : link
I think I'd run to the table to get Tatum though. I have him clearly above the guys the Knicks will be choosing from.
RE: ^i like that  
DanMetroMan : 6/15/2017 1:05 pm : link
In comment 13500990 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
I think I'd run to the table to get Tatum though. I have him clearly above the guys the Knicks will be choosing from.


I basically have the 4 I would most like

Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Isaac and then 4 guys I like (just a little less) but more than I like Frenchy, Markkanen etc. After Isaac I could be convinced any of the next 4 would be "best" for us. I just want one of those 8 guys.
Priggy  
DanMetroMan : 6/15/2017 1:10 pm : link
Smalls not joining the Knicks staff
RE: I'll  
Enzo : 6/15/2017 1:30 pm : link
In comment 13500935 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
just leave this here...
"Derrick loves New York and wants to be there," Rose's agent, B.J. Armstrong, told Bleacher Report recently. "We've expressed that to them and been very consistent about it. Whether it happens is on them; all we can do is be clear."

translation: his agent knows that there's not going to be much of a market for Rose...and is hoping Phil is dumb enough to bring him back.

I'll be pissed if Tatum drops to seven  
bceagle05 : 6/15/2017 1:30 pm : link
and we miss out b/c of that fucking coin flip. But who knows, maybe Monk winds up being a better player.
RE: RE: I'll  
Deej : 6/15/2017 2:05 pm : link
In comment 13501019 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 13500935 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


just leave this here...
"Derrick loves New York and wants to be there," Rose's agent, B.J. Armstrong, told Bleacher Report recently. "We've expressed that to them and been very consistent about it. Whether it happens is on them; all we can do is be clear."


translation: his agent knows that there's not going to be much of a market for Rose...and is hoping Phil is dumb enough to bring him back.


Yeah. And when he ends up taking a very low $$ deal from a non-CLE/GSW playoff team, we'll hear about how he's made enough and all he wants to do is win.

I feel like Milwaukee would be a good spot for him. He can be a 6th man of the year -- he will absolutely torch 2nd units, and get a break defensively against subs. And since Giannis can play so many positions, they can mix him in with the starters with easy. Not sure the Bucks would be interested, but for the right price/understanding about role, Rose is a solid play.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 | Show All |  Next>>
Back to the Corner