I can't take credit for this. Saw this on a NYK fan site and then looked him up. Player's name is Deonte Burton. Very unusual size at 6'5" (in shoes as NBA players are measured), 260 lb and a 7' wingspan.
Pluses:
1 very mentally and physically tough (a trait NYK has desperately lacked)
2 multi-skilled (shooting, handle, passing, defending)
3 uses lefty-ness in Zach Randolph kind of way (you know he's going left, but he gets there any way with varied release points and funky interior moves)
Minus:
1 height/weight
2 not a great athlete by any stretch but not bad either
He will likely be there at 58.
Quote:
I pose this question Why is a 6'5 KP upside pg who only needs to tighten up his handle and improve as a playmaker falling to 8?
my guess? he hasnt had a chance to workout or meet with teams and trams higher are not going to take that risk...
why did giannis not get picked higher? why did kawhi not get pi ked higher?
kp sky rocketed once his workout took place and he started meeting with teams...
plus this a pretty deep draft, i dont take him over the top guys, i dont take him over monk or smith
Even those who like him think his upside is good starter. I haven't seen ANYONE (including Fraschilla who might be his biggest fan and has seen him numerous times in person) say his upside is anywhere near "superstar".
"Frank Ntilikina: “Well, the broader view here is there's likely to be five point guards drafted in the first 10. It's going to be interesting. And most likely because of the fact that people don't know him like they know the four college kids, he's going to go fifth,” Fraschilla said. “And what I love about him -- and by the way, I think he's going to be able to show you -- I hate to say this because I'm not a fan of the triangle, I think in the modern NBA the spacing doesn't work as well as it did in the old days, but he's a triangle kind of player, simply because he's not really a 1, and he's not really a 2. He's a guard.
“He can make decisions well. He shoots it well. He's athletic. He could be a good defender. And you're also looking at a kid who's still 18 years old. His long-term potential as an NBA player is very good. I watched him last summer at the Jordan Gym in New York City, and he made 27 out of 30 NBA 3s. I think people who didn't know him early on -- the obligatory line when you don't know somebody is, he's a really good athlete, but he's not a great shooter, and he's dispelling that this year in France, shooting over 40 percent from the international 3. He doesn't have the polish of a Fultz or Ball or the speed and athleticism or raw athleticism of Fox or Smith, but he has the look and feel of an NBA guard when he grows up.”
Quote:
Than Bradley with frank.
except shumpert was a jump out of the gym prospect who couldnt shoot
Bradley couldn't shoot either.
I'm comparing frank to the NBA versions of both players. Shumps like a 40% 3 point shooter now, was tried at PG but didn't have the handles or awareness to play guard.
I'd argue frank might have more PnR savvy than either shump or Bradley but i don't think he's comparable at all as an athlete.
"Ntilikina offers evidence of a complete offensive game with little surety beyond the fact that he’s a smart, developing kid. His basketball IQ is great for a 18-year-old, and he consistently made good decisions when he got the ball. He’s capable at attacking, and showed improvement in creating his and the team’s offense as the year went on. His ability in the pick-and-roll is dangerous, both due to his range, his 6’5 size allowing him sight over the defense, and his ability to pick the ball up and get to the basket if the defense hesitates.
He doesn't have the quickest shot, and he'll need to adjust to NBA players who will play close up against a 170 pound player with less-than-great burst, but the foundation to be a great-efficiency shooter is there. There isn’t enough in-game evidence to prove his three-point stroke is a dependable skill (he took 81 of them this year, making 41% of them), but his stroke is mechanical, consistent, and stretches a good few feet from the NBA three line. His role as the team’s secondary distributor also served to utilize him as a spot-up shooter, and defenses were wary of him regardless of his range. When he got hot in the U18 Championships (more on that later), he went full inferno—17-29 from three in the six game stretch. The biggest concern with his shot is his inconsistent free throw percentage… typically a great barometer for a player’s shooting ability, you don’t want to see a point guard hanging around in the mid-60s (65.9%).
His lead guard skills are still very much in development, from his court vision to his timing on passes when he's on the move. His passer willingness isn't a concern; he's in no way a ball-needy player and looks to make the right play or keep the offense moving. His read on what the defense would do to stop him as a scorer and as a distributor was sometimes excellent… and other times, it got him sent back to the bench because he didn't have any leash to be hurting the offense. He rarely showed much creativity with the ball on the dribble, and his own creation ability might be limited until he rounds that out to keep the defense on their toes. But again… that all comes down to getting the ball in his hands.
Trusting low-minute prospects is always difficult when considering Euro prospects who play in a veteran friendly environment. Where his shooting ability was greatly improved (and turned from a weakness into a strength) by forcing him to play off ball, the lack of extended time with the ball hides much. He could become one of the most well rounded point guards in the class, with his rapidly growing feel for the game and pass-first attitude. But in a class of points with enormous impact potentials and impact limiting weaknesses… it's fair to point out Ntilikina's 15.2% assist rate, 18.6% turnover ratio, and 16.8% usage rate in league play. Selecting Ntilikina means banking on those point-guard and shot-creation instincts he flashes becoming what defines him as a player.
His ideal size (6'5) and length are great NBA tools, but while he won't be left behind on the break, he doesn't have the speed or the burst to match the stars at the most star-heavy position in the league. Nothing about his tools will be a serious limit to his game, but his potential isn't in a game-altering toolbox that Markelle Fultz, De’Aaron Fox, Malik Monk, or Dennis Smith have.
Defensive Breakdown:
If not for De’Aaron Fox, Ntilikina would easily be the most engaged guard defender in the lottery. Given his short playtime leash, it’s no surprise Ntilikina learned he needed to make an impact defensively, and he consistently gives great effort that many young guards don’t make.
Just like De’Aaron Fox, however, Ntilikina needs to add serious muscle before he’ll be ready to defend NBA guards. The transition from a league where he could really work and opponent with his length and quickness to a league where his athletic ability is equal at best on most nights might be really, really rough on Ntilikina over the first year or two of his career. But he’s got the effort and the instincts to be a great defender as he develops.
Intangibles:
The real reason to be hyped about Ntilikina is the U18 European Championship. It’s the best case we have for Ntilikina’s NBA potential; given full control of the offense for the first time in such a professional setting, Ntilikina went to the hospital with the flu… and then came back to lead France to the title, won the tournament’s MVP award, and averaged 15.2 points and 4.5 assists on 31/62 from the field and 17/29 from three. In the final two games, he had 23 points and 9 assists followed up by 31 points on 11/16 shooting… aaannnnd then he went right back to averaging 19-25 minutes per game with Strasbourg. It’s not his fault that his French squad delegates him to a secondary ballhandler role with inconsistent minutes, but that means a lot is riding on one excellent weekend in the U18.
While it’s safe to say there will be more tape on the rest of the players around his draft range, Ntilikina isn’t a secret. The Basketball Champions League puts whole games up on Youtube, so while he doesn’t get a ton of minutes, there’s stuff to go off. And even with inconsistent minutes and his secondary-ball handler role, you can see the impact he makes on both ends. The lack of serious minutes could hide a player who doesn’t want to be the go-to ball handler… or it could have just been holding back a budding youngster playing in a veteran-loving Euro system.
On another note, even if he is an Avery Bradley/ George Hill prospect (not a star but a good NBA player), it'll probably be a while before he establishes that level of play. If that is a fair statement, I'd love to draft a guy like Frank Mason...a guy who isn't likely to have a big learning curve and at the very least can be a Patty Mills type productivity wise. However, I truly think guys with his athleticism, skill set and mentality wind up far exceeding their draft slot (think Kyle Lowry).
i love this time of year...
There are very real worries with Frank, but he brings a very translatable skill set with a unique physical profile.
It's just weird to me to see the pro-KP crowd shit on Frank.
There are very real worries with Frank, but he brings a very translatable skill set with a unique physical profile.
It's just weird to me to see the pro-KP crowd shit on Frank.
It's only weird given the way you present the analogy. KP and FN both have unique physical profiles. They both can shoot and both have the length to be difference makers on D.
That's the extent of the comparison. Beyond that, KP's skillset has matched well with the direction the NBA is going in. The most important skills a big man can provide in today's NBA is rim protection and shooting. KP is or projects as elite in both categories.
Guards today need to be able to create their own shot. It is hard to find good shot creators who lack both ball-handling and quick-twitch athleticism. FN lacks both. He projects as a fine player if things break right but the question of whether his skillset translates is distinct from the question of whether it is unique.
There are very real worries with Frank, but he brings a very translatable skill set with a unique physical profile.
It's just weird to me to see the pro-KP crowd shit on Frank.
Mitchell has 6'10 wingspan and 35% from 3, D'Angelo Russell 6'10 wingspan 41% from 3 in college. It's not some absolutely ridiculous combination like a 7'3 kid who can shoot from deep. Wingspan is great and all but it's not the end all be all.
There are very real worries with Frank, but he brings a very translatable skill set with a unique physical profile.
It's just weird to me to see the pro-KP crowd shit on Frank.
Last draft actually. Wade Baldwin.
He doesn't have the quickest shot, and he'll need to adjust to NBA players who will play close up against a 170 pound player with less-than-great burst, but the foundation to be a great-efficiency shooter is there. There isn’t enough in-game evidence to prove his three-point stroke is a dependable skill (he took 81 of them this year, making 41% of them), but his stroke is mechanical, consistent, and stretches a good few feet from the NBA three line. His role as the team’s secondary distributor also served to utilize him as a spot-up shooter, and defenses were wary of him regardless of his range. When he got hot in the U18 Championships (more on that later), he went full inferno—17-29 from three in the six game stretch. The biggest concern with his shot is his inconsistent free throw percentage… typically a great barometer for a player’s shooting ability, you don’t want to see a point guard hanging around in the mid-60s (65.9%).
I've seen people dismiss his 3s b/c of his FTs, but the fact is he didnt take a ton of either. FTs in particular -- just 29 FTA. The difference between 65% and 75% on 29 attempts is just just three makes.
Where did he suggest that KP would be going, back overseas?
Quote:
as KP, when's the last time we saw a point guard with a 7' wingspan who shot 40% from 3?
There are very real worries with Frank, but he brings a very translatable skill set with a unique physical profile.
It's just weird to me to see the pro-KP crowd shit on Frank.
Mitchell has 6'10 wingspan and 35% from 3, D'Angelo Russell 6'10 wingspan 41% from 3 in college. It's not some absolutely ridiculous combination like a 7'3 kid who can shoot from deep. Wingspan is great and all but it's not the end all be all.
Yeah and Russell went 2nd overall despite questions about his attitude.
Frank has the physical profile and desire to be a very good defender. That's what differentiates them.
I'll take the guy with the high floor and desire to get better.
Quote:
Fraschilla thinks KP is taking his talents elsewhere (not buying it) and advocates Isaac at 8 (REALLY doubt he's there) #Knicks
Where did he suggest that KP would be going, back overseas?
Signing with a winner when his contract is up.
Yeah and he's a really good player. He also has Frank by 5 years.
Quote:
.
Yeah and he's a really good player. He also has Frank by 5 years.
Brogdon also has 45 pounds on frank. Baldwin is much more similar in terms of build and strengths/weaknessss as a prospect
Link - ( New Window )
1 He's a high usage and inefficient guy on offense.
2 He's as bad as it gets on D.
3 his elevated opinion of himself gets in the way of a decent work ethic
He's exactly the kind of player that the NYK have collected for a while now, a loser player. He'll always be a stat hound on losing teams.
Don't they own the heat pick next year?
Ball and Booker is pretty interesting.
Quote:
reporting lakers may be willing to trade 2 to the suns for 4 and a 2018 pick
Don't they own the heat pick next year?
Ball and Booker is pretty interesting.
Wouldnt assume Ball. They said they want to try Booker in a Harden role. Could be Jackson or Isaac.
I also doubt his ability to accept an "off the ball" role with Ball coming in and getting the monster attention he will.
I don't think I would
Lonzo off ball isnt nearly as valuable as on ball. I would not take him with the intention of playing him at the #2. There are better prospects than Lonzo Ball, Shooting Guard.
Quote:
the fact the Lakers wouldn't want Willy given the fact they have Zubac... IF the Lakers offered 2 for 8 and Willy would you do it?
I don't think I would
I would. We're not going to get another Willy easily, but I think center is a pretty easy position to fill in the current NBA. And truth be told I'd prefer a better athlete/defender at the 5.
Quote:
the fact the Lakers wouldn't want Willy given the fact they have Zubac... IF the Lakers offered 2 for 8 and Willy would you do it?
I don't think I would
Actually on 2nd thoughts if they signed a defensive presence like Dedmon to put next to KP full time I'd like to have Ball or Jackson.
Quote:
But I wouldn't rule out lonzo for that reason. Booker and Ball are both very capable of playing off ball. Bledsoe doesn't really work because he's not that great of a 3 point shooter. Ball can play the 2 just as well (probably a better fit for him defensively too).
Lonzo off ball isnt nearly as valuable as on ball. I would not take him with the intention of playing him at the #2. There are better prospects than Lonzo Ball, Shooting Guard.
But at the same time is that a reason to take a consensus tier 2 player over a tier 1? Saying hypothetically, don't know how the suns value this class. To me you go talent and figure out fit later. It's never a bad thing to have two guys with the ability to play make.
Quote:
In comment 13501880 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
the fact the Lakers wouldn't want Willy given the fact they have Zubac... IF the Lakers offered 2 for 8 and Willy would you do it?
I don't think I would
Actually on 2nd thoughts if they signed a defensive presence like Dedmon to put next to KP full time I'd like to have Ball or Jackson.
I would. I like the idea of Ball with KP. A lot.
Quote:
In comment 13501875 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
But I wouldn't rule out lonzo for that reason. Booker and Ball are both very capable of playing off ball. Bledsoe doesn't really work because he's not that great of a 3 point shooter. Ball can play the 2 just as well (probably a better fit for him defensively too).
Lonzo off ball isnt nearly as valuable as on ball. I would not take him with the intention of playing him at the #2. There are better prospects than Lonzo Ball, Shooting Guard.
But at the same time is that a reason to take a consensus tier 2 player over a tier 1? Saying hypothetically, don't know how the suns value this class. To me you go talent and figure out fit later. It's never a bad thing to have two guys with the ability to play make.
Take Jackson. I think Ball would fuck up their Booker plans. I think he's not a very good shooter for a 2 guard, especially with his funky shot -- even the 3 might not work well in the NBA.
Say BPA all you want, but the Sixers took 3 centers and it fucked them.
Okafor's fit was always questioned.
But yeah I'm high on jackson as well. It just seems Ball fits the Suns push everything in transition and launch 3s motto better than Jackson.
Okafor's fit was always questioned.
But yeah I'm high on jackson as well. It just seems Ball fits the Suns push everything in transition and launch 3s motto better than Jackson.
Except he doesnt fit their Booker at the 1 plan. What you're saying is, basically, dont do that. And maybe they will agree if Ball is available to them.
But my point was dont assume they'd trade up and pick Ball, because he's contrary to their plan of putting the offense in Booker's hands.