|
|
|
| Quote: |
| It's very early, especially for a third-round pick who may not even be active for a game this coming season. But Webb has impressed so far in his limited action at organized team activity and minicamp practices open to the media, including a 10-for-14 day Wednesday in 7-on-7 and 11-on-11 drills. Where the young quarterback is likely making his biggest internal impact, though, is when he's not throwing the ball. - more - |
Honestly, I can understand the thinking somewhat but I don't agree with it. They're figuring the strength of the team is the defense, so (knock wood) if they have to turn to a 2nd string, they'd rather give it to a vet who is a known entity rather than take a chance on an unproven but promising rookie.
On my end - if there's no Eli, I'd rather just take my chances with Webb, even if it means likely watching the season go down the tubes. IMO, strong defense or not, sans Eli the outcome will not be good.
I think it's great that he's getting out in the city and checking it out. NYC is a great, great, place - especially if you're rich and an admired athlete. It's as if he is accepting NYC as his future home. Love the kid and think he'll be a star one day.
Giants get a taste of their Odell Beckham-Brandon Marshall dream - ( New Window )
Makes sense to me. If Eli's out for a long time, the team is screwed. But a vet QB for a short time could come in and win a few games with this defense.
I don't know why, but I think we may have something here ...
You can't just throw the season away by starting a rookie if Eli goes down.
That's why I like Smith as back up. Webb for the future.
I think it's great he "looked good in shorts", but it's his lack of pro offense set situation experience that likely keep him as a 3rd QB this season.
For the most part, Nassib looked terrible in most game situations; uncertain and not confident. Same with David Carr too.
Let see how Webb does behind a sieve of a 3rd or 4th string OL in the first couple preseason games before making any kind of early judgements.
I think the reason for Johnson and Smith is to make sure you have someone who is ready in case Eli goes down. I don't know if McAdoo really feels the need for a vet so much as he doesn't want to put too much pressure on a rookie. Having said that, if the rookie is ready to be a backup, this could happen, particularly if there isn't anything special in either Smith or Johnson.
love Webb, especially factoring in the ridiculous 1st round reaches this year. he has the size, arm, mobility, work ethic to be Eli's successor and has landed in a perfect situation - time to learn and an offense based out of the shotgun/quick passing game
I think it's great he "looked good in shorts", but it's his lack of pro offense set situation experience that likely keep him as a 3rd QB this season.
For the most part, Nassib looked terrible in most game situations; uncertain and not confident. Same with David Carr too.
Let see how Webb does behind a sieve of a 3rd or 4th string OL in the first couple preseason games before making any kind of early judgements.
blah blah blah ... how often is Eli under center? this whole cal offense fear is so overblown.
That means 2 different offenses.
Everyone wins.
Webb isn't NFL ready. Even if he develops into a good pro, he isn't ready now. The two vets aren't great, but at least they've run a pro offense, and would give us a punchers chance should Eli go down.
Maybe it will improbably shake out that way years down the line, but it's ridiculous to say this right now, given where they were drafted and how Wentz looks at least to probably be a mediocre NFL player after playing real football for a season.
Unless you think you're smarter than all 32 NFL teams and even most draft "experts" (including our own Sy and Dave Te).
Webb isn't NFL ready. Even if he develops into a good pro, he isn't ready now. The two vets aren't great, but at least they've run a pro offense, and would give us a punchers chance should Eli go down.
the season is over if Eli goes down, so yes, it makes more sense in both the short/long term to get Webb reps.
josh Johnson or geno smith is not getting us to the SB.
1. The quality of the defense
2. McAdoo's intelligence in managing the offense/defense/special teams balance in 2016
3. Based on Webb's college tape he needs a ton of work before being NFL ready. Anyone can look great in a camp setting, but there's a reason a guy with his physical and intangible attributes fell to round 3.
Remember also that Geno Smith is only 26 years old. He's mobile and a polished passer; he's actually a pretty good fit in an offense based on short passing.
Quote:
ad to how so many of you support going into the season with Webb as the primary backup.
Webb isn't NFL ready. Even if he develops into a good pro, he isn't ready now. The two vets aren't great, but at least they've run a pro offense, and would give us a punchers chance should Eli go down.
the season is over if Eli goes down, so yes, it makes more sense in both the short/long term to get Webb reps.
josh Johnson or geno smith is not getting us to the SB.
You always try though.
I just think it's in everyone's best interest for him to spend a year learning from the bench. In an ideal world it's three years on the bench as Eli finishes up his career with three more Super Bowl titles.
I just think it's in everyone's best interest for him to spend a year learning from the bench. In an ideal world it's three years on the bench as Eli finishes up his career with three more Super Bowl titles.
It can also hinder his natural progression by not allowing him the higher spot on the depth chart. Some guys need to feel like their place on the team matches their performance. If he outplays both Johnson and Smith in training camp and preseason, what kind of message does that send if he is still lower than one of them on the depth chart.
I dont like the idea of arbitrarily sitting a rookie.
I dont like the idea of arbitrarily sitting a rookie.
In an ideal scenario, the rookie is given a year to master the technique, so that it's second nature when he is put to the real test. Because if it's not second nature, it will all go to hell when he is under pressure. And that's when a young QB can start losing confidence in both himself and the techniques he's trying to master.
This would be true if he were coming from a college that ran a pro style offense, but it's even more true coming out of Cal. Jared Goff case in point.
Quote:
I dont like the idea of arbitrarily sitting a rookie.
There's nothing arbitrary about it. The physical tools are there, but by all accounts, he has a lot to learn. Not just the very different playbook, but his throwing mechanics and footwork. It's one thing to perform well in OTA's and in training camp practices and preseason games, but the speed of the game goes up a notch when the games really matter. And that's when a player's trust in his technique, whether it's the QB or the OT, is truly tested.
In an ideal scenario, the rookie is given a year to master the technique, so that it's second nature when he is put to the real test. Because if it's not second nature, it will all go to hell when he is under pressure. And that's when a young QB can start losing confidence in both himself and the techniques he's trying to master.
This would be true if he were coming from a college that ran a pro style offense, but it's even more true coming out of Cal. Jared Goff case in point.
Cam Newton did not come from a pro style O and he excelled in year 1. Vick did not come from a pro style O, and he excelled in year 1. Mariota came from a gimmick O, and excelled in year 1. Tannehill too (not excelled, but did okay despite the team surrounding him). All of those qbs picked up a pro offense and STARTED their rookie years coming from option/spread offenses. I am talking about Webb learning enough to be a 2nd string qb in 3 months when his competition is one failed pretty spectacularly in his first job losing his team in the process and an NFL journeyman whose been with 8 teams in 7 years.
If Eli goes down, yes, the season is likely over. But relegating Webb to a redshirt year even if he is way way ahead of schedule based on this theory:
"It can be counter-productive to put a QB in before he's ready...
Milton : 2:20 am : link : reply
If he does poorly, it could hurt his confidence (and lead to bad habits/mechanics). And even if he does well, it could be fool's gold that gives him false confidence (and perpetuates bad habits/mechanics)."
NONE of that is fact and while some posters may be getting ahead of themselves because of good OTA performance, simply relegating him to 3rd string "just because" is a terrible philosphy. You take away any incentive for the kid to excel and push himself. The sense of urgency that is created by giving the rookie a place on the team that he has earned is far more valuable than having him go through practice KNOWING that the team has no intention of him seeing the field even if he is the best option to help the team win. You play the best players.
Does anyone really have faith in Geno Smith leading this team? I sure as hell wouldn't.
p.s.--Is it okay to tell Smith and Johnson they have no shot at the starting gig or is that a disincentive, too?
Quote:
Than Webb was when drafted
Maybe it will improbably shake out that way years down the line, but it's ridiculous to say this right now, given where they were drafted and how Wentz looks at least to probably be a mediocre NFL player after playing real football for a season.
Unless you think you're smarter than all 32 NFL teams and even most draft "experts" (including our own Sy and Dave Te).
Yet Wentz was a starter in his rookie season -- what makes Wentz such a great first round prospect? -- In my opinion, he was over-valued in the draft -- I don't think it's a stretch at all to be of the opinion that Webb was at least equal to Wentz talent-wise when drafted
Quote: In comment 13501321 gidiefor said: Quote:
Than Webb was when drafted Maybe it will improbably shake out that way years down the line, but it's ridiculous to say this right now, given where they were drafted and how Wentz looks at least to probably be a mediocre NFL player after playing real football for a season.
Unless you think you're smarter than all 32 NFL teams and even most draft "experts" (including our own Sy and Dave Te).
Yet Wentz was a starter in his rookie season -- what makes Wentz such a great first round prospect? -- In my opinion, he was over-valued in the draft -- I don't think it's a stretch at all to be of the opinion that Webb was at least equal to Wentz talent-wise when drafted
The parallels between Wentz and Webb are uncanny right down to height and arm strength (although Webb's velocity - tops of all QB's in this past draft - is a little greater than Wentz). And Wentz's success didn't exactly come from running a pro-style offense in North Dakota State. Yet Wentz held his own when thrown into the fire of NFL play in his rookie year (much to my chagrin).
And the Eagles traded their 1st, 2nd, and 4th picks(2016), their 1st round pick (2017), and their 2nd rd pick (2018) for his services.
Getting Webb in the 3rd round without having to give up a damn thing is a great, great steal. Especially if he is basically little different than Wentz.
I like Webb a lot. Really my only concern is that he needs to add 15 to 20 lbs to his tall frame. He's drinking from the fire hose right now just as Wentz had to do last year and is probably still doing. For Webb to add weight and muscle shouldn't be hard to do with the nutrition and health staff he has available to him with the Giants and he's used to drinking from a fire hose from having to learn two different systems from two very high profile football programs with different coaches, players, personnel, and unique terminology for each school.
And when it comes to cerebral football capacity, I give an edge to Webb. He's smart and such a student of the game he's like the nerds in H.S. we all hated because all they did was study and get "A's" while we got "C's" and on a good day, "B's".
Webb is going to be fine whether they have him back up Eli this year or he has to wait a year. He's not some "giant liability" (no pun intended) if forced into service this year. Certainly no worse than Geno or Josh.
Quote:
In comment 13501321 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Than Webb was when drafted
Maybe it will improbably shake out that way years down the line, but it's ridiculous to say this right now, given where they were drafted and how Wentz looks at least to probably be a mediocre NFL player after playing real football for a season.
Unless you think you're smarter than all 32 NFL teams and even most draft "experts" (including our own Sy and Dave Te).
Yet Wentz was a starter in his rookie season -- what makes Wentz such a great first round prospect? -- In my opinion, he was over-valued in the draft -- I don't think it's a stretch at all to be of the opinion that Webb was at least equal to Wentz talent-wise when drafted
There's a massive value difference between overvalued at #2 overall, with a huge trade to acquire, and being a mid third round pick. Maybe things will shake out the improbable way later (I hope they do), but claiming they're equal talents right now or at the time of their selections is basically saying, without anything at all of value to back it up, that all of the NFL already got it wrong, as did most scouts/"experts".
Does anyone really have faith in Geno Smith leading this team? I sure as hell wouldn't.
amen. this whole "veteran QB" nonsense is ridiculous. the jets dumped Geno, Josh Johnson is Josh Johnson. the season is over if Eli goes down, get Webb reps.
Quote:
while some posters may be getting ahead of themselves because of good OTA performance, simply relegating him to 3rd string "just because" is a terrible philosphy. You take away any incentive for the kid to excel and push himself.
Any QB who loses all incentive because he was relegated to 3rd string should have his ass kicked off the team right now. But I don't think that applies to Webb or any other rookie QB on an NFL roster.
Quote:
The sense of urgency that is created by giving the rookie a place on the team that he has earned is far more valuable than having him go through practice KNOWING that the team has no intention of him seeing the field even if he is the best option to help the team win. You play the best players.
You're being silly. Nobody is saying you make an announcement that under no circumstances will Davis Webb see the field this year. You go into the season with a plan. The plan includes Webb spending his rookie year working on his mechanics as the 3rd string QB. If circumstances suggest a change of plans is in order, then you change plans. But in the meantime it's okay to have expectations for each and every player on the roster and to plan accordingly.
p.s.--Is it okay to tell Smith and Johnson they have no shot at the starting gig or is that a disincentive, too?
Im not being silly. You are being typically dogmatic with this argument. Just as you said that " Any QB who loses all incentive because he was relegated to 3rd string should have his ass kicked off the team right now", any QB that loses confidence because of struggles with executing a new O, I dont want here. In fact, I generally want my QB to have a huge chip on his shoulder and want to be the man, than one that needs to be nurtured.
Quote:
the season is most likely FUBAR.
Does anyone really have faith in Geno Smith leading this team? I sure as hell wouldn't.
amen. this whole "veteran QB" nonsense is ridiculous. the jets dumped Geno, Josh Johnson is Josh Johnson. the season is over if Eli goes down, get Webb reps.
Exactly. Webb, if hes ready to at least run the offense, would be able to use live games as his learning experience. He shouldnt delude himself into thinking he can save the season. I also think it depends on the situation. If the Giants are securely in first place, Eli can come back, maybe you start the vet. But if its early in the season and the Giants are at like .500, you start Webb and tell him to just run the offense. That kind of learning experience is just normally unavailable for rookies.
I gotta stop talking about if Eli goes down....its giving me the willies. Way too much talk about that possibility. I am starting to think the unthinkable is going to happen because of how pumped I am for this season.