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Kratch story on New Giant QB Davis Webb

gidiefor : Mod : 6/15/2017 9:37 am
Quote:
It's very early, especially for a third-round pick who may not even be active for a game this coming season. But Webb has impressed so far in his limited action at organized team activity and minicamp practices open to the media, including a 10-for-14 day Wednesday in 7-on-7 and 11-on-11 drills. Where the young quarterback is likely making his biggest internal impact, though, is when he's not throwing the ball.

- more -

Link - ( New Window )
Very interesting...  
Dan in the Springs : 6/15/2017 9:43 am : link
It's a shame that his reps are expected to be so limited in camp, because I'm not too afraid to let him be the primary backup to Eli this year. Why not?
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/15/2017 9:58 am : link
Jordan Raanan had a very good blurb on Webb too in his review of yesterday's practice.
Very exciting stuff  
Ron Johnson 30 : 6/15/2017 10:01 am : link
Hoping he's the real deal.
RE: Very interesting...  
jcn56 : 6/15/2017 10:07 am : link
In comment 13500707 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
It's a shame that his reps are expected to be so limited in camp, because I'm not too afraid to let him be the primary backup to Eli this year. Why not?


Honestly, I can understand the thinking somewhat but I don't agree with it. They're figuring the strength of the team is the defense, so (knock wood) if they have to turn to a 2nd string, they'd rather give it to a vet who is a known entity rather than take a chance on an unproven but promising rookie.

On my end - if there's no Eli, I'd rather just take my chances with Webb, even if it means likely watching the season go down the tubes. IMO, strong defense or not, sans Eli the outcome will not be good.
Webb is doing all the right things  
mavric : 6/15/2017 10:21 am : link
He's a workaholic and eats, drinks, and sleeps football. He certainly has the size, the arm, and the intelligence to succeed in the NFL and his attitude is exactly what you want from a rookie QB.

I think it's great that he's getting out in the city and checking it out. NYC is a great, great, place - especially if you're rich and an admired athlete. It's as if he is accepting NYC as his future home. Love the kid and think he'll be a star one day.
from Jordan  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/15/2017 10:22 am : link
Quote:
Strong day from rookie quarterback Davis Webb. He threw the ball consistently with velocity. He zipped one pass between two defenders in a red zone drill for a score. He threw another to the far sideline with impressive velocity. Webb then capped the drill with a dump-off in the middle of the field to tight end Colin Thompson for another touchdown. And Webb was confident and decisive in all of his decisions. Even when he did get forced to hold the ball and roll out right later in practice, he threw a bullet across his body in the back of the end zone to wide receiver Jerome Lane. It was an impressive showing.

Giants get a taste of their Odell Beckham-Brandon Marshall dream - ( New Window )
The opposite of the buzz around Hackenberg with NYJ  
Heisenberg : 6/15/2017 10:25 am : link
.
It looks like  
Pete in MD : 6/15/2017 10:25 am : link
Mac prefers to have a vet backup at QB and to have three on the roster.
RE: It looks like  
Heisenberg : 6/15/2017 10:46 am : link
In comment 13500798 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
Mac prefers to have a vet backup at QB and to have three on the roster.


Makes sense to me. If Eli's out for a long time, the team is screwed. But a vet QB for a short time could come in and win a few games with this defense.
looking forward  
annexOPR : 6/15/2017 11:07 am : link
to reading the archived thread of his draft selection in 3-5 years

I don't know why, but I think we may have something here ...
you need a veteran backup  
Vanzetti : 6/15/2017 11:11 am : link
almost all rookie QBs struggle--even guys who go on to become HOFers.

You can't just throw the season away by starting a rookie if Eli goes down.

Its really early  
BlueManCrew : 6/15/2017 11:13 am : link
to get excited. But we've already seen more from Webb than the Nassib/Bomar/Woodson crew.
..q  
Dodge : 6/15/2017 11:24 am : link
I wonder how much pre-season time he'll get. Especially since Johnson and Smith will be battling it out for a spot. Might not be enough room for any decent time.
And yet,  
Doomster : 6/15/2017 11:32 am : link
we will probably waste a roster spot carrying 3 qb's....
Legs, escapability, running ability..  
grizz299 : 6/15/2017 11:35 am : link
all matter to a backup. A back-up can't have the necessary timing, so mobility is disproportionately important for the short term.
That's why I like Smith as back up. Webb for the future.
Wondering why Webb slipped to the third round.  
Mark C : 6/15/2017 11:46 am : link
Was it just the style of offense they play at Cal, or were there other factors? Can't see anything not to like about this guy as a QB.
Isn't The Real Concern With Webb ...  
Trainmaster : 6/15/2017 11:57 am : link
... how he does under center in a practice 11 on 11 situation with full pads or better, in a game situation?

I think it's great he "looked good in shorts", but it's his lack of pro offense set situation experience that likely keep him as a 3rd QB this season.

For the most part, Nassib looked terrible in most game situations; uncertain and not confident. Same with David Carr too.

Let see how Webb does behind a sieve of a 3rd or 4th string OL in the first couple preseason games before making any kind of early judgements.
Its tines like this that I wish  
superspynyg : 6/15/2017 12:07 pm : link
there was a developmental league.
It's another reason to watch preseason  
Ron Johnson 30 : 6/15/2017 12:09 pm : link
I'm really looking forward to seeing him play.
I really wouldn't discount...  
Dan in the Springs : 6/15/2017 12:18 pm : link
his being the #2 QB after the preseason. I guess it depends on how the roster shakes out, but if he looks good enough to manage a game, which he could, and if you need the roster spot somewhere else, you could just leave him as #2.

I think the reason for Johnson and Smith is to make sure you have someone who is ready in case Eli goes down. I don't know if McAdoo really feels the need for a vet so much as he doesn't want to put too much pressure on a rookie. Having said that, if the rookie is ready to be a backup, this could happen, particularly if there isn't anything special in either Smith or Johnson.
RE: Wondering why Webb slipped to the third round.  
annexOPR : 6/15/2017 12:18 pm : link
In comment 13500900 Mark C said:
Quote:
Was it just the style of offense they play at Cal, or were there other factors? Can't see anything not to like about this guy as a QB.


love Webb, especially factoring in the ridiculous 1st round reaches this year. he has the size, arm, mobility, work ethic to be Eli's successor and has landed in a perfect situation - time to learn and an offense based out of the shotgun/quick passing game



RE: Isn't The Real Concern With Webb ...  
annexOPR : 6/15/2017 12:20 pm : link
In comment 13500908 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
... how he does under center in a practice 11 on 11 situation with full pads or better, in a game situation?

I think it's great he "looked good in shorts", but it's his lack of pro offense set situation experience that likely keep him as a 3rd QB this season.

For the most part, Nassib looked terrible in most game situations; uncertain and not confident. Same with David Carr too.

Let see how Webb does behind a sieve of a 3rd or 4th string OL in the first couple preseason games before making any kind of early judgements.


blah blah blah ... how often is Eli under center? this whole cal offense fear is so overblown.
Dak played well  
mrvax : 6/15/2017 12:45 pm : link
last year. I'd suppose Webb could be the backup if the offense was custom tailored to his skill set.
That means 2 different offenses.
Webb drop  
mdc1 : 6/15/2017 12:46 pm : link
wasn't his drop largely due to his inability to accurately throw the ball down field? If this is true, how is this a good thing?
In a perfect world, Johnson holds off Smith but Smith shows  
Ivan15 : 6/15/2017 12:51 pm : link
enough that some team wants him as a backup or to replace an injured starter and willingly gives up a 3rd Day draft pick.

Everyone wins.
In a perfect world, Webb develops nicely and impresses  
Jimmy Googs : 6/15/2017 1:24 pm : link
coaches enough to be #2 by September. And we release the "experienced" JAGs and use up all roster spots effectively.

I'm perplexed  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 6/15/2017 3:34 pm : link
ad to how so many of you support going into the season with Webb as the primary backup.

Webb isn't NFL ready. Even if he develops into a good pro, he isn't ready now. The two vets aren't great, but at least they've run a pro offense, and would give us a punchers chance should Eli go down.
Quicker Webb gets NFL ready  
Jimmy Googs : 6/15/2017 4:23 pm : link
the better. Just don't want to hear a year from now the guy didn't get as many snaps as he could have because we had 2 guys with no future ahead of him...
I dont think Carson Wentz was any better a talent  
gidiefor : Mod : 6/15/2017 5:59 pm : link
Than Webb was when drafted
RE: I dont think Carson Wentz was any better a talent  
Devon : 6/15/2017 6:19 pm : link
In comment 13501321 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Than Webb was when drafted


Maybe it will improbably shake out that way years down the line, but it's ridiculous to say this right now, given where they were drafted and how Wentz looks at least to probably be a mediocre NFL player after playing real football for a season.

Unless you think you're smarter than all 32 NFL teams and even most draft "experts" (including our own Sy and Dave Te).
RE: I'm perplexed  
annexOPR : 6/15/2017 6:51 pm : link
In comment 13501172 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
ad to how so many of you support going into the season with Webb as the primary backup.

Webb isn't NFL ready. Even if he develops into a good pro, he isn't ready now. The two vets aren't great, but at least they've run a pro offense, and would give us a punchers chance should Eli go down.


the season is over if Eli goes down, so yes, it makes more sense in both the short/long term to get Webb reps.

josh Johnson or geno smith is not getting us to the SB.
.  
Go Terps : 6/15/2017 7:02 pm : link
Generally I'm not in favor of carrying three QBs, but considering the following I would keep Geno Smith as the #2:

1. The quality of the defense
2. McAdoo's intelligence in managing the offense/defense/special teams balance in 2016
3. Based on Webb's college tape he needs a ton of work before being NFL ready. Anyone can look great in a camp setting, but there's a reason a guy with his physical and intangible attributes fell to round 3.

Remember also that Geno Smith is only 26 years old. He's mobile and a polished passer; he's actually a pretty good fit in an offense based on short passing.
RE: RE: I'm perplexed  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/15/2017 7:16 pm : link
In comment 13501339 annexOPR said:
Quote:
In comment 13501172 LakeGeorgeGiant said:


Quote:


ad to how so many of you support going into the season with Webb as the primary backup.

Webb isn't NFL ready. Even if he develops into a good pro, he isn't ready now. The two vets aren't great, but at least they've run a pro offense, and would give us a punchers chance should Eli go down.



the season is over if Eli goes down, so yes, it makes more sense in both the short/long term to get Webb reps.

josh Johnson or geno smith is not getting us to the SB.




You always try though.
I used to do it too, but it's not rational.  
SoDev : 6/16/2017 12:22 am : link
It's not all or nothing of Eli goes down. He could go down for a half or a few games after a 6-2 start. It doesn't have to be a season ender or nothing. That is when the value of a vet. is shown. Someone who has a better chance at keeping you around .500 while Eli heals,but hopefully we never find out. If they feel Webb has as good a chance of doing that as a Geno then Smith is gone. A vet. is more likely to not lose you the game through some rookie mistake.
It can be counter-productive to put a QB in before he's ready...  
Milton : 6/16/2017 2:20 am : link
If he does poorly, it could hurt his confidence (and lead to bad habits/mechanics). And even if he does well, it could be fool's gold that gives him false confidence (and perpetuates bad habits/mechanics).

I just think it's in everyone's best interest for him to spend a year learning from the bench. In an ideal world it's three years on the bench as Eli finishes up his career with three more Super Bowl titles.
RE: It can be counter-productive to put a QB in before he's ready...  
chopperhatch : 6/16/2017 2:38 am : link
In comment 13501582 Milton said:
Quote:
If he does poorly, it could hurt his confidence (and lead to bad habits/mechanics). And even if he does well, it could be fool's gold that gives him false confidence (and perpetuates bad habits/mechanics).

I just think it's in everyone's best interest for him to spend a year learning from the bench. In an ideal world it's three years on the bench as Eli finishes up his career with three more Super Bowl titles.


It can also hinder his natural progression by not allowing him the higher spot on the depth chart. Some guys need to feel like their place on the team matches their performance. If he outplays both Johnson and Smith in training camp and preseason, what kind of message does that send if he is still lower than one of them on the depth chart.

I dont like the idea of arbitrarily sitting a rookie.
RE: RE: It can be counter-productive to put a QB in before he's ready...  
Milton : 6/16/2017 3:25 am : link
In comment 13501586 chopperhatch said:
Quote:

I dont like the idea of arbitrarily sitting a rookie.
There's nothing arbitrary about it. The physical tools are there, but by all accounts, he has a lot to learn. Not just the very different playbook, but his throwing mechanics and footwork. It's one thing to perform well in OTA's and in training camp practices and preseason games, but the speed of the game goes up a notch when the games really matter. And that's when a player's trust in his technique, whether it's the QB or the OT, is truly tested.

In an ideal scenario, the rookie is given a year to master the technique, so that it's second nature when he is put to the real test. Because if it's not second nature, it will all go to hell when he is under pressure. And that's when a young QB can start losing confidence in both himself and the techniques he's trying to master.

This would be true if he were coming from a college that ran a pro style offense, but it's even more true coming out of Cal. Jared Goff case in point.
RE: RE: RE: It can be counter-productive to put a QB in before he's ready...  
chopperhatch : 6/16/2017 4:15 am : link
In comment 13501594 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13501586 chopperhatch said:


Quote:



I dont like the idea of arbitrarily sitting a rookie.

There's nothing arbitrary about it. The physical tools are there, but by all accounts, he has a lot to learn. Not just the very different playbook, but his throwing mechanics and footwork. It's one thing to perform well in OTA's and in training camp practices and preseason games, but the speed of the game goes up a notch when the games really matter. And that's when a player's trust in his technique, whether it's the QB or the OT, is truly tested.

In an ideal scenario, the rookie is given a year to master the technique, so that it's second nature when he is put to the real test. Because if it's not second nature, it will all go to hell when he is under pressure. And that's when a young QB can start losing confidence in both himself and the techniques he's trying to master.

This would be true if he were coming from a college that ran a pro style offense, but it's even more true coming out of Cal. Jared Goff case in point.


Cam Newton did not come from a pro style O and he excelled in year 1. Vick did not come from a pro style O, and he excelled in year 1. Mariota came from a gimmick O, and excelled in year 1. Tannehill too (not excelled, but did okay despite the team surrounding him). All of those qbs picked up a pro offense and STARTED their rookie years coming from option/spread offenses. I am talking about Webb learning enough to be a 2nd string qb in 3 months when his competition is one failed pretty spectacularly in his first job losing his team in the process and an NFL journeyman whose been with 8 teams in 7 years.

If Eli goes down, yes, the season is likely over. But relegating Webb to a redshirt year even if he is way way ahead of schedule based on this theory:

"It can be counter-productive to put a QB in before he's ready...
Milton : 2:20 am : link : reply
If he does poorly, it could hurt his confidence (and lead to bad habits/mechanics). And even if he does well, it could be fool's gold that gives him false confidence (and perpetuates bad habits/mechanics)."

NONE of that is fact and while some posters may be getting ahead of themselves because of good OTA performance, simply relegating him to 3rd string "just because" is a terrible philosphy. You take away any incentive for the kid to excel and push himself. The sense of urgency that is created by giving the rookie a place on the team that he has earned is far more valuable than having him go through practice KNOWING that the team has no intention of him seeing the field even if he is the best option to help the team win. You play the best players.

If Eli goes down..  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/16/2017 8:12 am : link
the season is most likely FUBAR.

Does anyone really have faith in Geno Smith leading this team? I sure as hell wouldn't.
RE: RE: RE: RE: It can be counter-productive to put a QB in before he's ready...  
Milton : 6/16/2017 10:04 am : link
In comment 13501595 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
while some posters may be getting ahead of themselves because of good OTA performance, simply relegating him to 3rd string "just because" is a terrible philosphy. You take away any incentive for the kid to excel and push himself.
Any QB who loses all incentive because he was relegated to 3rd string should have his ass kicked off the team right now. But I don't think that applies to Webb or any other rookie QB on an NFL roster.
Quote:
The sense of urgency that is created by giving the rookie a place on the team that he has earned is far more valuable than having him go through practice KNOWING that the team has no intention of him seeing the field even if he is the best option to help the team win. You play the best players.
You're being silly. Nobody is saying you make an announcement that under no circumstances will Davis Webb see the field this year. You go into the season with a plan. The plan includes Webb spending his rookie year working on his mechanics as the 3rd string QB. If circumstances suggest a change of plans is in order, then you change plans. But in the meantime it's okay to have expectations for each and every player on the roster and to plan accordingly.
p.s.--Is it okay to tell Smith and Johnson they have no shot at the starting gig or is that a disincentive, too?
I am okay telling Smith and Johnson  
Jimmy Googs : 6/16/2017 12:54 pm : link
they wont be the starting QB...
RE: RE: I dont think Carson Wentz was any better a talent  
gidiefor : Mod : 6/16/2017 1:06 pm : link
In comment 13501330 Devon said:
Quote:
In comment 13501321 gidiefor said:


Quote:


Than Webb was when drafted



Maybe it will improbably shake out that way years down the line, but it's ridiculous to say this right now, given where they were drafted and how Wentz looks at least to probably be a mediocre NFL player after playing real football for a season.

Unless you think you're smarter than all 32 NFL teams and even most draft "experts" (including our own Sy and Dave Te).


Yet Wentz was a starter in his rookie season -- what makes Wentz such a great first round prospect? -- In my opinion, he was over-valued in the draft -- I don't think it's a stretch at all to be of the opinion that Webb was at least equal to Wentz talent-wise when drafted
RE: RE: RE: I dont think Carson Wentz was any better a talent  
mavric : 6/16/2017 1:52 pm : link
In comment 13501971 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 13501330 Devon said:
Quote: In comment 13501321 gidiefor said: Quote:
Than Webb was when drafted Maybe it will improbably shake out that way years down the line, but it's ridiculous to say this right now, given where they were drafted and how Wentz looks at least to probably be a mediocre NFL player after playing real football for a season.

Unless you think you're smarter than all 32 NFL teams and even most draft "experts" (including our own Sy and Dave Te).

Yet Wentz was a starter in his rookie season -- what makes Wentz such a great first round prospect? -- In my opinion, he was over-valued in the draft -- I don't think it's a stretch at all to be of the opinion that Webb was at least equal to Wentz talent-wise when drafted


The parallels between Wentz and Webb are uncanny right down to height and arm strength (although Webb's velocity - tops of all QB's in this past draft - is a little greater than Wentz). And Wentz's success didn't exactly come from running a pro-style offense in North Dakota State. Yet Wentz held his own when thrown into the fire of NFL play in his rookie year (much to my chagrin).

And the Eagles traded their 1st, 2nd, and 4th picks(2016), their 1st round pick (2017), and their 2nd rd pick (2018) for his services.

Getting Webb in the 3rd round without having to give up a damn thing is a great, great steal. Especially if he is basically little different than Wentz.

I like Webb a lot. Really my only concern is that he needs to add 15 to 20 lbs to his tall frame. He's drinking from the fire hose right now just as Wentz had to do last year and is probably still doing. For Webb to add weight and muscle shouldn't be hard to do with the nutrition and health staff he has available to him with the Giants and he's used to drinking from a fire hose from having to learn two different systems from two very high profile football programs with different coaches, players, personnel, and unique terminology for each school.

And when it comes to cerebral football capacity, I give an edge to Webb. He's smart and such a student of the game he's like the nerds in H.S. we all hated because all they did was study and get "A's" while we got "C's" and on a good day, "B's".

Webb is going to be fine whether they have him back up Eli this year or he has to wait a year. He's not some "giant liability" (no pun intended) if forced into service this year. Certainly no worse than Geno or Josh.
RE: RE: RE: I dont think Carson Wentz was any better a talent  
Devon : 6/16/2017 2:17 pm : link
In comment 13501971 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 13501330 Devon said:


Quote:


In comment 13501321 gidiefor said:


Quote:


Than Webb was when drafted



Maybe it will improbably shake out that way years down the line, but it's ridiculous to say this right now, given where they were drafted and how Wentz looks at least to probably be a mediocre NFL player after playing real football for a season.

Unless you think you're smarter than all 32 NFL teams and even most draft "experts" (including our own Sy and Dave Te).



Yet Wentz was a starter in his rookie season -- what makes Wentz such a great first round prospect? -- In my opinion, he was over-valued in the draft -- I don't think it's a stretch at all to be of the opinion that Webb was at least equal to Wentz talent-wise when drafted


There's a massive value difference between overvalued at #2 overall, with a huge trade to acquire, and being a mid third round pick. Maybe things will shake out the improbable way later (I hope they do), but claiming they're equal talents right now or at the time of their selections is basically saying, without anything at all of value to back it up, that all of the NFL already got it wrong, as did most scouts/"experts".
RE: If Eli goes down..  
annexOPR : 6/16/2017 2:19 pm : link
In comment 13501627 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
the season is most likely FUBAR.

Does anyone really have faith in Geno Smith leading this team? I sure as hell wouldn't.


amen. this whole "veteran QB" nonsense is ridiculous. the jets dumped Geno, Josh Johnson is Josh Johnson. the season is over if Eli goes down, get Webb reps.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: It can be counter-productive to put a QB in before he's ready...  
chopperhatch : 6/16/2017 3:10 pm : link
In comment 13501735 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13501595 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


while some posters may be getting ahead of themselves because of good OTA performance, simply relegating him to 3rd string "just because" is a terrible philosphy. You take away any incentive for the kid to excel and push himself.

Any QB who loses all incentive because he was relegated to 3rd string should have his ass kicked off the team right now. But I don't think that applies to Webb or any other rookie QB on an NFL roster.

Quote:


The sense of urgency that is created by giving the rookie a place on the team that he has earned is far more valuable than having him go through practice KNOWING that the team has no intention of him seeing the field even if he is the best option to help the team win. You play the best players.


You're being silly. Nobody is saying you make an announcement that under no circumstances will Davis Webb see the field this year. You go into the season with a plan. The plan includes Webb spending his rookie year working on his mechanics as the 3rd string QB. If circumstances suggest a change of plans is in order, then you change plans. But in the meantime it's okay to have expectations for each and every player on the roster and to plan accordingly.
p.s.--Is it okay to tell Smith and Johnson they have no shot at the starting gig or is that a disincentive, too?


Im not being silly. You are being typically dogmatic with this argument. Just as you said that " Any QB who loses all incentive because he was relegated to 3rd string should have his ass kicked off the team right now", any QB that loses confidence because of struggles with executing a new O, I dont want here. In fact, I generally want my QB to have a huge chip on his shoulder and want to be the man, than one that needs to be nurtured.
RE: RE: If Eli goes down..  
chopperhatch : 6/16/2017 3:17 pm : link
In comment 13502099 annexOPR said:
Quote:
In comment 13501627 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


the season is most likely FUBAR.

Does anyone really have faith in Geno Smith leading this team? I sure as hell wouldn't.



amen. this whole "veteran QB" nonsense is ridiculous. the jets dumped Geno, Josh Johnson is Josh Johnson. the season is over if Eli goes down, get Webb reps.


Exactly. Webb, if hes ready to at least run the offense, would be able to use live games as his learning experience. He shouldnt delude himself into thinking he can save the season. I also think it depends on the situation. If the Giants are securely in first place, Eli can come back, maybe you start the vet. But if its early in the season and the Giants are at like .500, you start Webb and tell him to just run the offense. That kind of learning experience is just normally unavailable for rookies.

I gotta stop talking about if Eli goes down....its giving me the willies. Way too much talk about that possibility. I am starting to think the unthinkable is going to happen because of how pumped I am for this season.
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