So the offseason workouts are done. OTAs and Minicamp have no passed. And the roster is full. So who will be the survivors to 53? And who will make the PS?
QB (Current)-Manning, Johnson, Smith, Webb
QB (Keep)-Manning, Webb and....John, no, Smit, no....errr. Coin flip. I'll say Johnson. For now.
QB (cut)-Smith
Comment: I think the thought would be that Johnson is more capable of stepping in should there be an emergency and Smith is still a reclamation project to some degree. And we have Webb to develop. No need for 2 guys who need coaching up.
RB (Current)-Abdullah, Darkwa, Draughn, Gallman, Perkins, Vereen
RB (Kept)-Darkwa, Gallman, Perkins, Vereen
RB (cut)-Abdullah, Draughn
Comment: Assuming health, these 4 are easy. Darkwa is a ST guy and they like his potential as a RB so he is good depth there. Draughn is a character guy but Darkwa is over Draughn if all things are equal.
FB (Current)-Huesman, Shane Smith
FB (Kept)-
FB (cut)-Huesman, Smith
PS-Smith
Comment: To be honest, I was preparing myself to keep a FB but the TEs screw that up. If we keep 5 (or even 4) TEs, there is no room for a FB. So Lacosse and Tye are ahead of Smith or Huesman. I will keep one of them on the PS and again, it's a tossup for me but I went with Smith since he is a more natural FB. But if Huesman converts his athleticism into football skills, he could fascinate the coaches.
WR (Current)-Beckham, Harris, Keeon Johnson, King, Lane, Lewis, Marshall, Norwood, Powe, Travis Rudolph, Shepard, Snead
WR (Kept)-Beckham, Harris, King, Rudolph, Marshall, Shepard
WR (cut)-Johnson, Lane, Lewis, Norwood, Powe, Snead
PS: Powe
Comment: I wonder if King is really a potential player or just a AAAA player (to use a baseball term) but he gets the 1st string reps when someone is out. So it seems he is the 4th WR. Harris stays for STs but I would imagine he's battling for a spot in camp and maybe Lewis or Powe sticks over him. I kept Rudolph. He seems like the type of guy who finds a way to stick. And I kept Powe on the PS. But maybe Rudolph goes to the PS if he isn't so productive in preseason games.
TE (Current)-Adams, Ellison, Engram, LaCosse, Tye, Colin Thompson
TE (Kept)-Adams, Ellison, Engram, LaCosse, Tye
TE (cut)-Thompson
Comment: Not sure how you cut any of them at this point. Maybe by the time we have to go to 53, injuries or performance makes it clearer. But for now, I am sticking with 5.
OL (Current)-Jones, Richburg, Halapio, Hart, Jerry, Pugh, Fluker, Bisnowaty, Bowie, Gettis, Flowers, Wheeler, Dunker
OL (Kept)-Jones, Richburg, Hart, Jerry, Pugh, Fluker, Bisnowaty, Flowers, Wheeler
OL (cut)-Halapio, Bowie, Gettis, Dunker
PS: Dunker, Gettis (if he is eligible)
Comment: My logic on King could apply to Gettis. He is always first one in if Pugh gets injured. But I assume Fluker will either start or be the backup OG (and Jerry will do the same). And I just think Gettis is overmatched. So I cut Gettis. Looks like Wheeler will be given every chance to make it as a backup LT. As will Bisno as backup RT and Guard. Jones is the backup center. Hoping Dunker shows enough to be a PS guy. And maybe Gettis gets more time on the PS if he remains eligible.
DE (Current)-Maponga, Moss, Odighizuwa, Okwara, JPP, Schwan, Taylor, Vernon, Jordan Williams, Wynn
DE (Kept)-Moss, Okwara, JPP, Taylor, Vernon, Wynn
DE (cut)-Owa, Maponga, Schwan, Williams
Comment: I am guessing Owa is getting help and I wonder if we put him on a reserve list for the year. But if he is well enough for camp, I don't know how this will shake out. Hard to cut a high round pick. In any case, odds are probably more likely he isn't with the team and that was why Taylor was signed. A nice hedge. I kept Wynn but 6 DEs is a lot. I think he can slide down to DT though. And Taylor did so also in minicamp. So maybe we keep 3 DTs and 5 to 6 DEs.
DT (Current)-Banks, Bromley, Bryant, Harrison, Jones, Thomas, Tomlinson
DT (Kept)-Harrison, Tomlinson, Thomas
DT (cut)-Bromley, Banks, Bryant, Jones
PS: Jones
Comment: I think the backup DT has to be the big runstopper since 1 or more will be replaced on most passing downs for a Taylor or Wynn or JPP sliding down inside. So I picked Thomas. Maybe Bryant is the guy. But to me, Bromley isn't. Never has been. Which is too bad because it was a bad pick when made. It didn't make sense then to a lot of people and it never made sense later on. Jones is already playing OL so maybe he gets a PS jersey and we try to make him into something.
LB (Current)-Robinson, Casillas, Grant, Herzlich, Kennard, Munson, Skinner, Thomas, Goodson
LB (Kept)-Robinson, Casillas, Herzlich, Kennard, Goodson, Thomas
LB (cut)-Grant, Munson, Skinner
PS: Skinner, Munson
Comment: Herzlich and Thomas. Kept Herzlich because until he is actually dead, it's not wise to pick against him. And they kept Thomas all this time for a reason. I would think Skinner and Munson each have a shot. But I put them on the PS for now.
CB (Current)-Amos, Apple, Blake, Deayon, Hunter, Jenkins, DRC, Tribune
CB (Kept)-Apple, Hunter, Jenkins, DRC
CB (cut)-Amos, Tribune, Blake, Hunter
Comment: I will guess we have a 5th CB. Maybe even a 6th. But I don't care for Blake and I think Deayon is a great guy to root for but hard to bet on. Originally I kept both but I was at 56 before going through the roster again. So I cut them both and figure it will be someone else who is the 5th guy here.
S (Current)-Adams, Berhe, Collins, Ihenacho, Johnson, Murphy, Pinkins, Robinson, D Thompson, M Thompson
S (Kept)-Adams, Berhe, Collins, D Thompson
S (cut)-Pinkins, Ihenacho, Johnson, Murphy, Robinson, M Thompson
Comment: Most important ability is availability and Mykelle is always nursing something. If healthy, I think he would stick but betting on his health is a poor bet. Ihenacho will be a tough cut. I am guessing Pinkins is going to make a run. I originally kept him but I needed to cut 3 more so I cut him. But maybe he sticks. Or maybe Ihenacho sticks. Or maybe Mykelle. The only other issue here is Berhe's health. But he has shown very well when he is healthy and maybe he will learn not to lead with his head now.
K (Current)-Rosas
K (Kept)-Rosas
K (cut)-
P (Current)-Wing
P (Kept)-Wing
P (cut)-
LS (Current)-DeOssie
LS (Kept)-DeOssie
LS (cut)-
Offense-27
QB-3
RB-4
FB-0
TE-5
WR-6
OL-9
Defense-23
DE-6
DT-3
LB-6
CB-4
S-4
STs-3
Last comment. I doubt we keep 5 TEs. And so look at the fact that I kept LaCosse and Tye as 4th and 5th TEs more as a function of thinking each of them has a better shot than the ones battling for 5th CB at this point. Or 4th DT. Chances are we keep only 4 and either keep the 5th CB from the guys we have or someone we pick up. But then again, who knows? Better to keep 5 good TEs than 4 good ones and a lesser FB. And injuries will make some things clearer I guess. But tough battles at the end of the depth chart at QB, TE/FB, WR, OL, DE and Safety.
Not enough DTs, keep Bromley. Maybe another CB too. Keep 2 more on defense to get to 25.
And I don't think you can keep 5 TEs either. I was a big Tye supporter but he's shown he's too limited. 4 TEs and you have your extra spot for DT.
I expect injuries in training camp will resolve those battles.
Rudolph was a good college receiver but doesn't do anything special for the NFL level.
You can't keep only 3 DTs.
keep 4 DT , and I'd keep an extra DB
4 DTs: Bromley over DE Wynn
5 DEs: I doubt Wynn makes the team.
This team will carry 10 DB's. And I agree with the poster above that I just don't see them keeping Smith or Johnson if Webb shows growth throughout the preseason. Rather they carry more Depth on the DL and in our secondary. 5 CB's is a given.
As for 3 DTs, I think that is very possible if they see Wynn and/or Taylor as being able to slide down inside in a pinch if there are injuries. And if they plan on using a DE at DT in pass rushing situations. We have kept 3 before (at least initially) and I was surprised then. I could see keeping 3 and picking the 4th up after the final cut down so the 4th isn't currently on our roster.
Giants post-minicamp 53-man roster projection: Several draft picks on way out? - ( New Window )
If TC was here, I'd expect it to me a vet, but Mac might be different.
My bold prediction: Fluker doesn't make the team and the spot is given to Wheeler.
Also Kratch doesn't discuss who he thinks might end up on the Practice Squad, but some of those tough cuts, those still PS eligible, will end up on the PS also. With that said, I think the Giants could keep the six LBer on the PS, possibly a guy like Munson or Skinner.
Lastly, I really hope Rosas becomes our Kicker and that we can keep a guy on the roster, now for a while, to create some stability there. He's got a great leg. I just hope he gets ample opportunity to show what he can do in Pre-Season.
How did we make room for Hedgecock or Hynoski? How did the Packers make room for Kuhn?
Trade Tye or Lacosse to the Ravens for a late pick? (pipe dream. Yes.). They have Ben Watson who is ancient by NFL TE standards and that's it w Pita going down. Seriously. No way they keep 5th TE over 5th CB who would be active every week.
If they want that one extra roster space cut Smith and Johnson. Wit this defense I'd rather gone the kid who seems to be the future.
The question is how much drop off is there from Webb from Geno whose head is questionable and Johnson who Ian irony more than a clipboard holder. Eli goes down this team is going to struggle
Matty: Moss vs. Wynn, to me Wynn while quite experienced has never been that much better than jag, so I wouldn't think Moss' talent would have to be over the top for him to edge Wynn out.
On the other hand, if I think that Bromley or Deayon or Blake is a 25% chance to step up and be the 4th DT or 4th/5th CB, saying Tye will make the roster is a better gamble than saying Bromley, Deayon or Blake will.
It's about seeing how many I can predict correctly will make the roster. At least to me it is.
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Watch LaCosse block in the preseason games. If history is any indication, problem solved.
Serious question (i.e., not being snarky), my recollection is that LaCosse went down so early the last two pre-seasons that there was hardly a chance to get a read on his blocking or play generally. Most of the enthusiasm for him came from intra-squad?
Matty: Moss vs. Wynn, to me Wynn while quite experienced has never been that much better than jag, so I wouldn't think Moss' talent would have to be over the top for him to edge Wynn out.
W Taylor(who is much better than Wynn) and Okwara(better upside) now that you bring it up again, Moss' upside is proably the way to go. No way I'm keeping 6 though. Not at the expense of a 4th DT Or a 5th CB.
Using the 2011 Packers as a template, five TEs is not out of the question. However, they also carried only three RBs (plus one FB), only five WRs, and only two QBs.
You might as well accept the fact that they're never going to cut Herzlich. Ever.
I'm sure Herz will pick up his phone from his couch if injuries become an issue at LB
Taylor only became a starter last year, after Jason Jones left for Miami. His best year was in 2015, when he came off the bench to rack up seven sacks. While he never became the dominant, double-digit sack artist that the Lions envisioned when they drafted him, as a starter his numbers were comparable to the guy he replaced. Unfortunately, his game really suffered after Ziggy Ansah got hurt (and missed a few games), and DC Teryl Austin's schemes didn't help him much in the pass-rush department, either.
A 4th round pick in 2013, you could say he's a bit of an underachiever, however, I think he'll be very comfortable as a backup to JPP and OV, a spot-starter if necessary, and I think he'll do very well playing for Spags. He's got a good chance to resurrect his career playing for the Giants.
He should definitely thrive in Spagnuolo's scheme. I see him as a Robert Ayers-type player in the right role. Diminishing returns as a full-time player.
Probably won't see much action, save for special teams, unless - God forbid - DEs start dropping like flies. It's not like he won't make the team, though, but he will most likely sit behind Taylor and probably behind Okwara, too (I figure OO and Wynn are goners).
Tavares King is a good WR so I think he sticks -- so it comes down to Darius Poe v LaCrosse and Tye -- LaCrosse might win that matchup - and my have more value -- so I think 4 TEs is more of the real possibility
Rudolf is not going to make the 53 man roster unless something really dramatic happens - I think King or Poe is more of a sure thing that he is - he is a great Practice Squad candidate
I also think the Giants need a True FB - they really missed not having one -- If Huesman is able to perform multiple functions then he's probably in -- Rhett Ellison serves as insurance for FB this year
There is also no way the Giants are parting with Bromley if healthy - or triming the DTs to only 3 at that position
Oline -- cutting a UDFA rookie over Gettis -- I don't see that right now -- but it's possible let the fights begin
I agree there will be a 5th CB -- in today's game you can't have too many of them -- but I also don't have strong convictions of the CBs behind the three starters
I have a strong feeling that Webb will be given every possibility of winning the 2nd QB position and that the Giants will only keep two QBs -- Webb has surprised a few coaches and reporters in camp already - he's raised more than a few eyebrows with his performance so far
At DT, I know you've been a supporter, by and large, of Bromley, but the reality is that he has done nothing much to separate or distinguish himself from other DT candidates, he's still here by virtue of the Reese theorem that the Giants won't cut their picks, certainly not through Round four, unless/until they've established, season after season, their utter lack of ability to help the team. Bromley is not quite there yet and not quite so marginal, but it won't take much for someone to nudge him off the 53. At least with McAdoo, the leash seems shorter than under TC, veteran status notwithstanding. So far, the draft day cries that Reese reached for him at least a round early have been borne out.
At DT, I know you've been a supporter, by and large, of Bromley, but the reality is that he has done nothing much to separate or distinguish himself from other DT candidates, he's still here by virtue of the Reese theorem that the Giants won't cut their picks, certainly not through Round four, unless/until they've established, season after season, their utter lack of ability to help the team. Bromley is not quite there yet and not quite so marginal, but it won't take much for someone to nudge him off the 53. At least with McAdoo, the leash seems shorter than under TC, veteran status notwithstanding. So far, the draft day cries that Reese reached for him at least a round early have been borne out.
Sorry, but the only thing borne out to me is that the Giants drafted a 3-tech who stood out at the 2014 East-West Game and had him put on weight so he could play the 1-tech. Bromley's problem wasn't that Reese drafted him too early, it's that TC and Fewell screwed him up from the get-go. It's no wonder that when Spags took over as DC and saw what he had with the guy, he had him lose the weight that he'd been told to put on.
So they are obviously not looking just for a run stopper
For the turnaround under Spags and Bromley's proper utilization to have legs, we haven't seen a whole lot it yet. No doubt the reps were limited because Snacks and Hank were the guys and DB wasn't going to see a lot of time with the starters at DE and with Snacks, so the opportunity to shine was limited. But in my watching of the games, I don't recall many moments when I sat up straight and said, whoa, I've had it wrong.
For your thesis to be borne out, does Bromley have to win, and sustain the win, over DT (meaning our 2nd round pick) as the starter? Does he become situation specific where the opponent is in down and distance where run or pass is equally likely?
Cut: Robert Thomas, Corbin Bryant
Practice Squad: Josh Banks, Jarron Jones
Bromley has roughly the same career record as Thomas and Bryant. But Bronley has much more intangibles. He was a team captain in his senior years in high school and college. In college played in all but one game for the four years. He started 33 of his 50 games including all in his senior year. During his college career, he was reported to be a locker room favorite and a coaches dream. He was reported to live in the weight and film room and was a leader on and off the field.
As far as keeping only 3 DTs. The Giants only had three defensive tackle active on game days most weeks last season. The fourth DT last year participated in only 6% of the defensive snaps for the year. DE Kerry Wynn can play DT if needed and there will be at least one DT on the practice squad.
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and cutting Herzlich frees up two spots...
You might as well accept the fact that they're never going to cut Herzlich. Ever.
This. I expect him to break Blanda's record for oldest player. And not as kicker either.
We completely sucked at linebacker so the difference between him and the others was reasonable. Now the difference is immense and it makes no sense. Last season LB Deaonte Skinner made about the same amount of ST tackles in about half as many snaps.
We used to have really bad special teams and Herz was that little engine that could "hustle" guy and made a bunch of tackles. But did he make them because he was good or the others were just really bad?
And lastly, our 53-man roster used to be just weak. The difference between 33 and 53 was marginal. Now we have added better starters and depth at nearly all positions (sans Offensive Line) so you better be able to hold your own at the primary position. And Herzlich cannot.
Love the story, read the book. But his time is up...