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NFT: UAlbany students who claimed racial attack

B in ALB : 6/16/2017 5:44 pm
by white students on a city bus receive three years probation, community service and a $1000 fine. They claimed being attacked by white students on the bus but the video showed a very different story. A lot of people thought they should have gotten jail time as there was a possibility of them getting two years. The judge thought otherwise. And the two girls refused to apologize to anyone for lying - despite some of the UAlbany students who were forced to drop out of school following backlash prior to the video being released.
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It seems reasonable to me  
Bill L : 6/16/2017 6:13 pm : link
They are lying a-holes who exploited a racial problem in the country. But, none was really hurt and they were exposed. They should definitely be barred from UAlbany for life though.
yeah i don't think jail was necessary  
B in ALB : 6/16/2017 6:15 pm : link
for such young adults who made a stupid mistake. But their lack of remorse and inability to apologize at all makes me question the legitimacy of the ruling. Did they learn anything at all? Or are they simply two angry people who are quick to pull the race trigger? I guess we'll find out.
They say they still think they were victims of a hate crime.  
81_Great_Dane : 6/16/2017 6:31 pm : link
So they won't apologize. So that's kind of a deadlock. The court can't force them to apologize, but it can force them to do community service...
________  
I am Ninja : 6/16/2017 7:50 pm : link
jail or not, the fact that anyone who googles their names for the rest of their lives is going to learn of this is the real punishment. an they did that to themselves.
I think if someone fraudulently  
capone : 6/16/2017 8:00 pm : link
Accuses another they should risk the same penalty as the accused. Again fraud has 5 elements , a high standard. Rape in particular in some cases when they did not have any sex at all etc .
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A similar situation occurred at Villanova right after the ...  
Crispino : 6/16/2017 10:03 pm : link
Fall election. An African American female student claimed to have been accosted by a group of white male students, who knocked her down while chanting Trump, Trump, Trump! Made it to news outlets nation wide. Then it abruptly dropped. Police and the school concluded that the entire incident was fabricated.
I suspect they can sued for libel  
George from PA : 6/17/2017 8:11 am : link
In civil court
The Judges ruling is rather pathetic  
beatrixkiddo : 6/17/2017 8:42 am : link
These two women ruined those students who they attacked lives. They had to withdraw from school for these made up claims, they had rally's at the school in support of the two people who attacked them and fabricated his whole scenario. No apology at all shows no remorse for their actions, which imo deserves the full punishment. 2 years is nothing for the damage they caused to those other poor kids, Judge is weak and unprincipled.
Sad story and a sad state of affairs  
LCtheINTMachine : 6/17/2017 12:06 pm : link
I don't agree with jail but would like to get these fools in a dark alley and administer justice...
Honestly curious  
Deej : 6/17/2017 12:13 pm : link
there are false allegations in society all the time. Why do false allegations with a racial element seem to touch such a nerve? I'll concede the premise of my question could be wrong so feel free to contest it.
RE: Honestly curious  
Klaatu : 6/17/2017 12:21 pm : link
In comment 13502748 Deej said:
Quote:
there are false allegations in society all the time. Why do false allegations with a racial element seem to touch such a nerve? I'll concede the premise of my question could be wrong so feel free to contest it.


My guess is because the repercussions go far beyond the parties involved.
RE: Honestly curious  
LAXin : 6/17/2017 12:38 pm : link
In comment 13502748 Deej said:
Quote:
there are false allegations in society all the time. Why do false allegations with a racial element seem to touch such a nerve? I'll concede the premise of my question could be wrong so feel free to contest it.


Conversely, why do some crimes need to have the extra designation of "hate crimes"? Some think it's necessary -- even helpful -- to have that distinction.



I think hate crime legislation is controversial for good reason  
Deej : 6/17/2017 12:46 pm : link
not sure on where I come down if you force me to make a decision, but I see a lot of fair room to criticize hate crime laws.
I think "hate crime" legislation is good  
Vanzetti : 6/17/2017 1:18 pm : link
It just has to be applied across the board to all peoples.

If I get in an argument with a gay guy and call him a "f--king f--g==t," I think I have violated his civil rights to be who he is.

But same thing has to happen if he calls me a "heterosexual m--f--er" or if a black woman calls me a "white mother--f===er"

RE: I think  
Deej : 6/17/2017 1:21 pm : link
In comment 13502792 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
It just has to be applied across the board to all peoples.

If I get in an argument with a gay guy and call him a "f--king f--g==t," I think I have violated his civil rights to be who he is.

But same thing has to happen if he calls me a "heterosexual m--f--er" or if a black woman calls me a "white mother--f===er"


You get that just calling someone a name or slur is not a crime, right?
Pathetic...  
Giant John : 6/17/2017 1:36 pm : link
Idiots.
RE: RE: I think  
LAXin : 6/17/2017 1:46 pm : link
In comment 13502793 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13502792 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


It just has to be applied across the board to all peoples.

If I get in an argument with a gay guy and call him a "f--king f--g==t," I think I have violated his civil rights to be who he is.

But same thing has to happen if he calls me a "heterosexual m--f--er" or if a black woman calls me a "white mother--f===er"




You get that just calling someone a name or slur is not a crime, right?


It's not, and that's why Vanzett's post did not contain the word "crime".

Anyway, I think his point is that hate (whether it's just internal emotion or actual physical act) exists both ways. I would go further to say that only a hopelessly brain-washed bigot racist believes that's it only exists -- and therefore should only be specially designated and prosecuted -- one way but not the other.
RE: RE: RE: I think  
Deej : 6/17/2017 1:51 pm : link
In comment 13502805 LAXin said:
Quote:
In comment 13502793 Deej said:


Quote:


In comment 13502792 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


It just has to be applied across the board to all peoples.

If I get in an argument with a gay guy and call him a "f--king f--g==t," I think I have violated his civil rights to be who he is.

But same thing has to happen if he calls me a "heterosexual m--f--er" or if a black woman calls me a "white mother--f===er"




You get that just calling someone a name or slur is not a crime, right?



It's not, and that's why Vanzett's post did not contain the word "crime".

Anyway, I think his point is that hate (whether it's just internal emotion or actual physical act) exists both ways. I would go further to say that only a hopelessly brain-washed bigot racist believes that's it only exists -- and therefore should only be specially designated and prosecuted -- one way but not the other.


well, in a discussion of hate crimes he said it would violate their civil rights, which isnt correct and suggests he was referring to criminal deprivation of civil rights.
RE: Honestly curious  
Bill L : 6/17/2017 2:29 pm : link
In comment 13502748 Deej said:
Quote:
there are false allegations in society all the time. Why do false allegations with a racial element seem to touch such a nerve? I'll concede the premise of my question could be wrong so feel free to contest it.
i think that the point about repercussions is a good one. It's not limited to just the parties involved in the false allegation. In this case, it led to on-campus turmoil, letters to students by the university president, allegations against bus drivers for allowing racist incidents to occur. It also happened st a time when there were other racial protests and not always calm ones, in other cities. So there was not only community hostility that brewed but potential for violence as well in albany. Iow, there's a fomenting aspect that doesn't occur in other cases a false allegations.
RE: Honestly curious  
pjcas18 : 6/17/2017 2:37 pm : link
In comment 13502748 Deej said:
Quote:
there are false allegations in society all the time. Why do false allegations with a racial element seem to touch such a nerve? I'll concede the premise of my question could be wrong so feel free to contest it.


Because in society today if you're branded a racist or bigot the truth rarely matters. It's impossible to be proven innocent of the charge (like proving negation) and it's guilty until proven innocent so you see the conundrum.

It's worse than wearing a scarlet letter. In the hierarchy of "crimes" you have murder, rape, anything bad done to a kid or dog, then being racist. Not much worse than being a racist (and maybe there shouldn't be, but that's the world today).

it's a life ruiner and I'm not necessarily saying it shouldn't be if it's true, but it's hard to recover from a false accusation like this.


RE: Honestly curious  
adamg : 6/17/2017 3:20 pm : link
In comment 13502748 Deej said:
Quote:
there are false allegations in society all the time. Why do false allegations with a racial element seem to touch such a nerve? I'll concede the premise of my question could be wrong so feel free to contest it.


I think there are two main negative effects of false claims and these make these cases have a gravity of a similar kind to false claims of sexual assault. One, false claims perpetuate the difficulty authentic claims face in the court of public opinion (and the court of law). Two, false claims victimize the accused. The first headline is more effective than the second.
So judge and jurors saw the video  
Colossus of Rhodes : 6/17/2017 4:32 pm : link
and decided that the video showed Agudio and Burwell instigating the attack?

Two thoughts:

I don't see that clearly in the video attached to this article. I can't tell who attacked who first.

If there is video that clearly shows an assault, then where is the assault charge?
RE: Honestly curious  
Moondawg : 6/17/2017 4:48 pm : link
In comment 13502748 Deej said:
Quote:
there are false allegations in society all the time. Why do false allegations with a racial element seem to touch such a nerve? I'll concede the premise of my question could be wrong so feel free to contest it.


I would say that one part of it is that people are taking advantage of an attempt to redress past wrongs by exploiting the good faith attempt of the system/society/govt/etc. to make amends.

I'd also say that "racist" is one of the worst things to say about a man nowadays. It destroys careers and lives in ways that being slandered as "corrupt," "adulterer," "coward," don't. It's an easy way to harm good men and women.

Just some thoughts.
The former is upsetting  
Moondawg : 6/17/2017 4:58 pm : link
in the way that people who put in false claims after a natural disaster or who do disability scams is upsetting.
I've sort of come around on hate crime laws.  
81_Great_Dane : 6/17/2017 5:07 pm : link
I always felt that if you commit a crime, you commit a crime, and whatever hate you held was irrelevant. An assault is an assault. A murder is a murder. Vandalism is vandalism. I'm wasn't crazy about trying to parse someone's motives for committing those crimes, and I'm still not.

But I'm persuaded that there are crimes that are not simply against individuals, but attempts to cleave the community, to intimidate one group and elevate another. If a kid marks your house with soap on Devil's Night because he's being a jerk, that's one thing. If he writes racial or ethnic slurs on your house, it's another. One is an attack on you, the other's an attack on you and your community. The community has a legitimate interest in treating that differently.

But sometimes there's no underlying crime at all. In this case, these two women say they feel they were victims of a hate crime, but it's not clear they were victims of any actual crime at all. It seems right to me that you have to have a crime before you decide if it's a "hate crime." Hate is a given; crimes aren't.
these two women  
fkap : 6/17/2017 5:23 pm : link
used race to falsely report a crime.

It's one thing to think you're being picked on, but these two women instigated an incident and then falsely reported it, based on race.

they got off lightly, which would have been ok had they showed any remorse. they didn't. IMO, they are a pox on race relations, and fail to see how they are in the wrong, or why their actions are a pox on race relations. there's plenty of blame to go around, so remember these kind of incidents when you're assessing blame on racial matters
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