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I have to admit - Aaron Donald is the Second Coming

gidiefor : Mod : 6/17/2017 7:21 am
I tip my hat to all you BBI brethren who were on his bandwagon early and often - especially before the draft. You were right about him.
Maybe  
thomasa510 : 6/17/2017 7:33 am : link
Maybe so, but I'm happy we didn't draft him in round 1. : )
To be honest I dont think you could have gone wrong with  
Giants_West : 6/17/2017 7:48 am : link
Donald, Martin or Beckham. An embarrassment of riches was on the board at our pick. I only wish someone had grabbed martin before Dallas did.
True, but  
Big Blue '56 : 6/17/2017 8:11 am : link
what about all their prospect misses? :)
RE: True, but  
Ira : 6/17/2017 8:17 am : link
In comment 13502607 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
what about all their prospect misses? :)


Shhhh!
I'm with Giants_west.  
Jimmy Googs : 6/17/2017 8:18 am : link
And by the way, most criticism on Donald was about his size. Not that he still wasn't going to be impactful, just how much.

Iirc, my criticism was really only about the 15 Aaron Donald threads per week that were started leading up to the draft...
Looking back 3 years later  
mfsd : 6/17/2017 8:26 am : link
that draft looks pretty good. Not too many total whiffs. Greg Robinson, Blake Bortles - eh, obviously Johnny Football mid round

But overall most teams have to be happy with their 1st Rd picks
Giants got the #1 player  
area junc : 6/17/2017 9:12 am : link
in the draft. That said, either Donald or Zack Martin who were very popular here would've paid huge dividends.

Imagine JPP - Snacks - Donald - OV?

I'd almost give up OBJ to see that.
Nice to imagine  
UConn4523 : 6/17/2017 9:26 am : link
but no chance we spend on OV and Snacks if we already had Donald.

I prefer our roster the way it is.
Aaron Donald and OBJ are comparable...  
Milton : 6/17/2017 9:34 am : link
But Zach Martin does not belong in the same conversation. Fine player, Pro Bowl player, sure, but he is not the difference maker that Donald and Beckham are. Not even close. Zach Martin is not keeping opposing coordinators up at night.
Milton  
UConn4523 : 6/17/2017 9:37 am : link
agreed. We pump him up because we'd love a pro bowl Guard but swapping him out for Donald are Beckham is something every single GM in the NFL would do. It isn't a knock on Martin, it's a knock on the position he plays.
But seriously Donald is a diva  
chuckydee9 : 6/17/2017 9:38 am : link
And not a team player.. why was he not there at volunteer OTAs.. not work the headache trade him..

Regards,
Fat Mike and half of BBI
Like many others  
Glover : 6/17/2017 9:41 am : link
I wanted Donald. Cant complain with either him or Beckham. Interesting debate, and the two will be linked their whole careers.
Serious Q - What makes him so good?  
Jerz44 : 6/17/2017 9:50 am : link
I don't watch a lot of Rams games so though I've heard all the praise I can't say I've really seen him play.

Is he better than Sapp or Haynesworth was?

He Haynesworth actually was trying hard he was one of the most dominant forces I'd seen as a DT.
Looks like a sure-fire  
RetroJint : 6/17/2017 9:50 am : link
HOFer. However playing for a jerkball program hurts his chances to make the sort of lasting impression that an extraordinary talent like Donald should make. The Rams think better days are right around the corner. Well let's see about that. I didn't like their draft nor am I particularly high on their QB.

Donald gets caught up in the trash sometimes on running plays. Because of his insane quickness and intuitive sense to use it, he guesses wrong and takes himself out of a play, on occasion.
Other than that, he's the capo.
RE: Looking back 3 years later  
giants#1 : 6/17/2017 10:01 am : link
In comment 13502614 mfsd said:
Quote:
that draft looks pretty good. Not too many total whiffs. Greg Robinson, Blake Bortles - eh, obviously Johnny Football mid round

But overall most teams have to be happy with their 1st Rd picks


It's got a chance to be a historic draft despite lacking a lot of QB talent:

Carr - legit top 10 QB
Beckham
Donald
Martin
Mack
Evans
Cook
Landry
Barr
Etc

That's 4 legit all-pros already.

If Bortles can develop into a league average starter and Teddy can recover and get back on track to being an average starter, it can go down as one of the greatest drafts.
Martin is an 2 time all first team All Pro.  
LauderdaleMatty : 6/17/2017 10:12 am : link
1 time second team All Pro. Yes. He's a 3 time Pro Bowler too. If pro bowls get u excited. All Pro means more. It's like a. Oscar vs a people's choice award.

First ballot HOF guy. He's easily the best OL on his team and makes everyone better. Saying OBJ or Donald are hands down better is silly.

He's an Offensive lineman. Not as sexy in our stupid fantasy football PFF meaningless stats driven world.

All 3 are stellar players and sure fire HOF types. And Of the 3 one can argue OBJ has cost his team more w his some of his drops and his shitty GB Performance.

Just odd to peel Martin off. Like he's had no impact on Dallas dominant OL transformation.
RE: Martin is an 2 time all first team All Pro.  
Milton : 6/17/2017 10:16 am : link
In comment 13502660 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
1 time second team All Pro. Yes. He's a 3 time Pro Bowler too. If pro bowls get u excited. All Pro means more. It's like a. Oscar vs a people's choice award.

First ballot HOF guy. He's easily the best OL on his team and makes everyone better. Saying OBJ or Donald are hands down better is silly.

He's an Offensive lineman. Not as sexy in our stupid fantasy football PFF meaningless stats driven world.

All 3 are stellar players and sure fire HOF types. And Of the 3 one can argue OBJ has cost his team more w his some of his drops and his shitty GB Performance.

Just odd to peel Martin off. Like he's had no impact on Dallas dominant OL transformation.
Defensive coordinators don't pull their hair out wondering how they're going to defend against Zach Martin. Nobody has to scheme around Zach Martin or change what they do on defense because of him.
Or put another way...  
Milton : 6/17/2017 10:21 am : link
If the Cowboys offered Martin and their 2018 1st round pick for OBJ, what would you tell them after you stopped laughing? And the Rams would have the same response if the offer was for Donald.
RE: Martin is an 2 time all first team All Pro.  
Mike from SI : 6/17/2017 10:27 am : link
In comment 13502660 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
1 time second team All Pro. Yes. He's a 3 time Pro Bowler too. If pro bowls get u excited. All Pro means more. It's like a. Oscar vs a people's choice award.

First ballot HOF guy. He's easily the best OL on his team and makes everyone better. Saying OBJ or Donald are hands down better is silly.

He's an Offensive lineman. Not as sexy in our stupid fantasy football PFF meaningless stats driven world.

All 3 are stellar players and sure fire HOF types. And Of the 3 one can argue OBJ has cost his team more w his some of his drops and his shitty GB Performance.

Just odd to peel Martin off. Like he's had no impact on Dallas dominant OL transformation.


Guards are not worth as much as generational wide receivers or interior pass rushers.
RE: RE: Martin is an 2 time all first team All Pro.  
LauderdaleMatty : 6/17/2017 10:31 am : link
In comment 13502663 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13502660 LauderdaleMatty said:


Quote:


1 time second team All Pro. Yes. He's a 3 time Pro Bowler too. If pro bowls get u excited. All Pro means more. It's like a. Oscar vs a people's choice award.

First ballot HOF guy. He's easily the best OL on his team and makes everyone better. Saying OBJ or Donald are hands down better is silly.

He's an Offensive lineman. Not as sexy in our stupid fantasy football PFF meaningless stats driven world.

All 3 are stellar players and sure fire HOF types. And Of the 3 one can argue OBJ has cost his team more w his some of his drops and his shitty GB Performance.

Just odd to peel Martin off. Like he's had no impact on Dallas dominant OL transformation.

Defensive coordinators don't pull their hair out wondering how they're going to defend against Zach Martin. Nobody has to scheme around Zach Martin or change what they do on defense because of him.


Yeah. Because he's a guard. I get it. You devalue that positions. Im my opinion that you are wrong. If you don't think DC don't go after weaker OL players w stunts a d blitzes Fine. Also to me when a guy is that dominant he makes his linemates jobs easier. Alllowing them to give help or resulting in extra available blockers. Elliot on the Giants isn't the talknof the NFL. MARTIN has a lot to do with that.

He's ansure fire HOF fIrst ballot OG. You can tell me all day about Donald. Also he gets single teamed due to Brockers next to him because teams have to double Brockers and he has Quinn as well. Please don't act like OCs don't have to fame plan around those guys too. Donald is also a HOF type guy.

But this DCs are up at nights over him. Really?

LT was that guy. Few others. No one changes their whole offensive scheme due to Donald. Same way as no one changes their whole scheme for OBJ or Martin. They account for guys. They have to.
There's a reason guards aren't as valued...  
Milton : 6/17/2017 10:38 am : link
...and it's not because they aren't sexy. Would you accept Martin and a 1st round pick in exchange for OBJ? I wouldn't.
Actually  
UConn4523 : 6/17/2017 10:42 am : link
teams do change their scheme when facing Beckham...
RE: RE: RE: Martin is an 2 time all first team All Pro.  
Big Blue '56 : 6/17/2017 10:46 am : link
In comment 13502674 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
In comment 13502663 Milton said:


Quote:


In comment 13502660 LauderdaleMatty said:


Quote:


1 time second team All Pro. Yes. He's a 3 time Pro Bowler too. If pro bowls get u excited. All Pro means more. It's like a. Oscar vs a people's choice award.

First ballot HOF guy. He's easily the best OL on his team and makes everyone better. Saying OBJ or Donald are hands down better is silly.

He's an Offensive lineman. Not as sexy in our stupid fantasy football PFF meaningless stats driven world.

All 3 are stellar players and sure fire HOF types. And Of the 3 one can argue OBJ has cost his team more w his some of his drops and his shitty GB Performance.

Just odd to peel Martin off. Like he's had no impact on Dallas dominant OL transformation.

Defensive coordinators don't pull their hair out wondering how they're going to defend against Zach Martin. Nobody has to scheme around Zach Martin or change what they do on defense because of him.



Yeah. Because he's a guard. I get it. You devalue that positions. Im my opinion that you are wrong. If you don't think DC don't go after weaker OL players w stunts a d blitzes Fine. Also to me when a guy is that dominant he makes his linemates jobs easier. Alllowing them to give help or resulting in extra available blockers. Elliot on the Giants isn't the talknof the NFL. MARTIN has a lot to do with that.

He's ansure fire HOF fIrst ballot OG. You can tell me all day about Donald. Also he gets single teamed due to Brockers next to him because teams have to double Brockers and he has Quinn as well. Please don't act like OCs don't have to fame plan around those guys too. Donald is also a HOF type guy.

But this DCs are up at nights over him. Really?

LT was that guy. Few others. No one changes their whole offensive scheme due to Donald. Same way as no one changes their whole scheme for OBJ or Martin. They account for guys. They have to.


Matty, didn't we do quite well against Donald, holding him in check? Not offering this as an answer to anything, but I seem to recall not being hurt by him. Could be misremembering
If the Giants were going OL, I sure as hell  
Jimmy Googs : 6/17/2017 10:48 am : link
wanted Martin. He was so NFL-ready. Loved the debates on why you shouldn't pick a Guard early...silly.

Difficult to compare the impacts of a WR versus a Guard but don't expose yourself as a moron on this board if you don't think Martin isn't great and impacts how the Cowboys win games..
No one here thinks Martin isn't great  
UConn4523 : 6/17/2017 10:51 am : link
but his position only has so much value.
But it is in a team game. Stop looking for stats as a measurement.  
Jimmy Googs : 6/17/2017 10:57 am : link
He is excellent at both pulling and drive blocking. He can do it all which is why the Cowboys can easily put up 1000 yard rushers each year.

He also makes sure guys like Aaron Donald have to make the All-Pro team by looking at tape of other games instead of Cowboys vs Rams.

Funny how Donald missed OTAs this year  
djm : 6/17/2017 10:57 am : link
And yet little to no backlash or hysterics from the media. He did show up for mini camp just like Beckham..
Link - ( New Window )
It's not even necessarily about the position  
Milton : 6/17/2017 10:58 am : link
It's about the players. I don't see how you can compare the impact Martin has on the game to the impact that OBJ has on the game.

And I repeat: is there anyone out there who would accept Martin and a 1st round pick in exchange for OBJ? Anyone??? Crickets.

Okay, there's your answer. Next subject...

p.s.--Martin is a Pro Bowl player, but Larry Allen he is not.
RE: But it is in a team game. Stop looking for stats as a measurement.  
UConn4523 : 6/17/2017 11:02 am : link
In comment 13502692 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
He is excellent at both pulling and drive blocking. He can do it all which is why the Cowboys can easily put up 1000 yard rushers each year.

He also makes sure guys like Aaron Donald have to make the All-Pro team by looking at tape of other games instead of Cowboys vs Rams.


Stop looking at stats? I didn't give a single stat. Who are you even arguing with?
RE: It's not even necessarily about the position  
Jimmy Googs : 6/17/2017 11:06 am : link
In comment 13502694 Milton said:
Quote:
It's about the players. I don't see how you can compare the impact Martin has on the game to the impact that OBJ has on the game.

And I repeat: is there anyone out there who would accept Martin and a 1st round pick in exchange for OBJ? Anyone??? Crickets.

Okay, there's your answer. Next subject...

p.s.--Martin is a Pro Bowl player, but Larry Allen he is not.


Martin is without question an All-Pro player. Has been every year, i think...
I wanted Martin or Donald at the time. IMO Martin could play  
yatqb : 6/17/2017 11:16 am : link
a great LT as well as OG; he's that good.

But Beckham is a more valuable player.

RE: RE: But it is in a team game. Stop looking for stats as a measurement.  
Jimmy Googs : 6/17/2017 11:20 am : link
In comment 13502698 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 13502692 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


He is excellent at both pulling and drive blocking. He can do it all which is why the Cowboys can easily put up 1000 yard rushers each year.

He also makes sure guys like Aaron Donald have to make the All-Pro team by looking at tape of other games instead of Cowboys vs Rams.




Stop looking at stats? I didn't give a single stat. Who are you even arguing with?


Didnt mean to suggest you did, only to the theme that player impact is measured by TDs, Yards or Sacks.

Agree with premise that I would rather have OBJ and Donald over Martin as they seem to be more "generational-types" thus far which are rare.

But not on board that Guards can't have more impact than a WR or a DT. They can.
Yeah great Guards  
UConn4523 : 6/17/2017 11:31 am : link
can have a larger impact than other positions, but not more than great WRs or great pass rushers. It's the way the league is right now.
RE: Yeah great Guards  
Jimmy Googs : 6/17/2017 11:44 am : link
In comment 13502727 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
can have a larger impact than other positions, but not more than great WRs or great pass rushers. It's the way the league is right now.


Yes, agreed.
I wanted Martin or Donald  
Jay on the Island : 6/17/2017 11:46 am : link
but I am glad that the Giants took Beckham. All three are great players but I feel the Giants made the best decision. Anyone who says that Donald would have been the better choice have a fair argument but if I could do it over again I would still want them to take Beckham. Also had the Giants taken Donald instead of Beckham the Giants never would have signed Damon Harrison with Donald and Hankins at DT.
RE: Giants got the #1 player  
annexOPR : 6/17/2017 11:46 am : link
In comment 13502631 area junc said:
Quote:
in the draft. That said, either Donald or Zack Martin who were very popular here would've paid huge dividends.

Imagine JPP - Snacks - Donald - OV?

I'd almost give up OBJ to see that.


I'm happy with 3/4 of the DL being all-pro caliber AND having a top 3 WR
The Giants got the best player in the draft  
JohnB : 6/17/2017 12:03 pm : link
Nothing more needs to be said.
One thing, though, re Martin vs. Beckham.  
Klaatu : 6/17/2017 12:03 pm : link
A WR's game is dependent on having at least a competent QB. A good Guard will make a positive impact no matter who's under Center.
RE: RE: RE: Martin is an 2 time all first team All Pro.  
NINEster : 6/17/2017 12:04 pm : link
In comment 13502674 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
In comment 13502663 Milton said:


Quote:


In comment 13502660 LauderdaleMatty said:


Quote:


1 time second team All Pro. Yes. He's a 3 time Pro Bowler too. If pro bowls get u excited. All Pro means more. It's like a. Oscar vs a people's choice award.

First ballot HOF guy. He's easily the best OL on his team and makes everyone better. Saying OBJ or Donald are hands down better is silly.

He's an Offensive lineman. Not as sexy in our stupid fantasy football PFF meaningless stats driven world.

All 3 are stellar players and sure fire HOF types. And Of the 3 one can argue OBJ has cost his team more w his some of his drops and his shitty GB Performance.

Just odd to peel Martin off. Like he's had no impact on Dallas dominant OL transformation.

Defensive coordinators don't pull their hair out wondering how they're going to defend against Zach Martin. Nobody has to scheme around Zach Martin or change what they do on defense because of him.



Yeah. Because he's a guard. I get it. You devalue that positions. Im my opinion that you are wrong. If you don't think DC don't go after weaker OL players w stunts a d blitzes Fine. Also to me when a guy is that dominant he makes his linemates jobs easier. Alllowing them to give help or resulting in extra available blockers. Elliot on the Giants isn't the talknof the NFL. MARTIN has a lot to do with that.

He's ansure fire HOF fIrst ballot OG. You can tell me all day about Donald. Also he gets single teamed due to Brockers next to him because teams have to double Brockers and he has Quinn as well. Please don't act like OCs don't have to fame plan around those guys too. Donald is also a HOF type guy.

But this DCs are up at nights over him. Really?

LT was that guy. Few others. No one changes their whole offensive scheme due to Donald. Same way as no one changes their whole scheme for OBJ or Martin. They account for guys. They have to.


Agree with this.

Also think I value consistent greatness on the lines these days more than I used to.

As for WRs.....a top 3 in the league is sweet but having 3 or 4 that are very good is better. Green Bay, Atlanta....they have that now.

Old Giants of 2011 had that.

OBJ>Donand>Martin  
Stan in LA : 6/17/2017 12:24 pm : link
'nuff said.
'Donald'  
Stan in LA : 6/17/2017 12:24 pm : link
.
Oh, and please ask  
Stan in LA : 6/17/2017 12:25 pm : link
John Jerry how hard it is to block Donald.
Donald is great BUT  
Vanzetti : 6/17/2017 1:11 pm : link
I still rank them:

1. Odell
2. Donald
3. Martin

And as good as he has been, Martin is a distant third on that list.
I wanted Martin  
annexOPR : 6/17/2017 1:30 pm : link
... I'm glad things have turned out the way they did. stud WR > Guard
Martin could be a HOFer  
Vanzetti : 6/17/2017 7:00 pm : link
but he is still significantly behind Odell and decently behind Donald. That's no knock on him. But those two are game changers.
the Giants liked  
BigBlueWhale : 6/17/2017 8:19 pm : link
OBJ, Martin, Donald and Taylor Lewan that year. All 4 are great players
RE: Martin is an 2 time all first team All Pro.  
Craigg619 : 6/17/2017 8:25 pm : link
In comment 13502660 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
1 time second team All Pro. Yes. He's a 3 time Pro Bowler too. If pro bowls get u excited. All Pro means more. It's like a. Oscar vs a people's choice award.

First ballot HOF guy. He's easily the best OL on his team and makes everyone better. Saying OBJ or Donald are hands down better is silly.

He's an Offensive lineman. Not as sexy in our stupid fantasy football PFF meaningless stats driven world.

All 3 are stellar players and sure fire HOF types. And Of the 3 one can argue OBJ has cost his team more w his some of his drops and his shitty GB Performance.

Just odd to peel Martin off. Like he's had no impact on Dallas dominant OL transformation.


I understand your sentiment but I don't agree with you at all. Martin is a terrific player, but like the poster mentioned, he is penalized by his position. Offensive guard is just not as important of a position as DT or #1 WR, it's just not. If he were a tackle, it'd be one thing.

And you say Odell cost his team more by the drops in GB. What an odd comment. Giants don't even sniff the playoffs without Odell.
Playmakers have always  
allstarjim : 6/17/2017 9:33 pm : link
held a lot more value than play preventers. And always will.
RE: the Giants liked  
David in LA : 6/17/2017 9:49 pm : link
In comment 13502985 BigBlueWhale said:
Quote:
OBJ, Martin, Donald and Taylor Lewan that year. All 4 are great players


IIRC, Khalil Mack was at the top of our draft board as well.
I'm just glad we dont  
TyFromQueens : 6/18/2017 2:56 am : link
Have to play against some one like Beckham for once.
Imagine if he ends up on any of the other NFC East teams?
RE: Or put another way...  
LauderdaleMatty : 6/18/2017 11:39 am : link
In comment 13502668 Milton said:
Quote:
If the Cowboys offered Martin and their 2018 1st round pick for OBJ, what would you tell them after you stopped laughing? And the Rams would have the same response if the offer was for Donald.


Talk to me after this year. Maybe. He going to grow up. Show up when it actually matters? Pugh is leaving plUg Martin in while we make up stupid hypotheticals. OBJ will want 20 million a year. Why not.

How many playoff wins do the Giants have w OBJ? You keep talking about him like he's LT. He's a top top tier player. All I said was you devalue Martin. Did indecalue OBJ?

How many play off wins do Megatron bring Detroit? Randy Moss Minny. One guy doesn't win championships.
Funny thing is,  
Doomster : 6/18/2017 11:44 am : link
he never looked too impressive against our OL.....hard to believe.....
RE: It's not even necessarily about the position  
LauderdaleMatty : 6/18/2017 11:47 am : link
In comment 13502694 Milton said:
Quote:
It's about the players. I don't see how you can compare the impact Martin has on the game to the impact that OBJ has on the game.

And I repeat: is there anyone out there who would accept Martin and a 1st round pick in exchange for OBJ? Anyone??? Crickets.

Okay, there's your answer. Next subject...

p.s.--Martin is a Pro Bowl player, but Larry Allen he is not.


Disagreements fine but get your estrogen in check and relax. Geez. Go rub one out. Sorry I wasn't manning this thread 24-7 to reply fast w Kuch. Martin was a two time All Pro. Big diferwnce between All Pro a Pro Bowl. 1 time second team All Pro too. Yeah. Those guys are all over the NFL. his first 3 years are comparable to Allan. But I'll bow to your 15 year internet posting skills from now on as definitive facts on the comparative value of a HOF WR vs a HOF OL
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