Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

NFT: Bill Cosby - ends with mistrial

Dave in PA : 6/17/2017 10:27 am
Looks like he's going to get away with it.
Ridiculous...  
Chris in Philly : 6/17/2017 10:28 am : link
His supporters are very weird people. And there are a ton of them around here.
Wow  
732NYG : 6/17/2017 10:35 am : link
.
Justice system can be a let down sometimes  
JerryNYG : 6/17/2017 10:37 am : link
Between this and the cop who shot Philando Castile, it has been a tough week for victims of senseless violence.
Well, at least his reputation is in the gutter,  
Mr. Bungle : 6/17/2017 10:41 am : link
and he lived to see it happen, like Paterno.
.  
Danny Kanell : 6/17/2017 10:51 am : link
Wow!
Prosecution to retry  
pjcas18 : 6/17/2017 10:53 am : link
and Cosby is trolling everyone now, on the way out of the courthouse he yelled "hey hey hey" Fat Albert style. WTF?
OJ Cosby???  
TheMick7 : 6/17/2017 10:56 am : link
SMH!
mistrial is no big deal  
GiantNatty : 6/17/2017 11:11 am : link
very common. government gets another shot and the conviction rate on retrial is favorable- the government now can streamline its case and make adjustments. does not mean he gets away with it at all...
Evidence and testimony related to Cosby's other  
eclipz928 : 6/17/2017 11:17 am : link
rape allegations were not permitted in the trial. This case pretty much had to stand on its own, which made a guilty verdict a long shot from the beginning. Mistrial is not surprising - we'll see what happens once he's retried.
Public warning to the ladies:  
Deej : 6/17/2017 11:19 am : link
skip Cosby's victory party tonight, or at least make it BYOB.
RE: Evidence and testimony related to Cosby's other  
Moondawg : 6/17/2017 11:22 am : link
In comment 13502711 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
rape allegations were not permitted in the trial. This case pretty much had to stand on its own, which made a guilty verdict a long shot from the beginning. Mistrial is not surprising - we'll see what happens once he's retried.


I always wondered why character witnesses are allowed, but not evidence of prior acts. I get that in cosby's case, they haven't been proven, but if they were, they still couldn't be used in this case. Why?
RE: mistrial is no big deal  
bradshaw44 : 6/17/2017 11:22 am : link
In comment 13502703 GiantNatty said:
Quote:
very common. government gets another shot and the conviction rate on retrial is favorable- the government now can streamline its case and make adjustments. does not mean he gets away with it at all...


This. He hasn't gotten away just yet.
RE: RE: Evidence and testimony related to Cosby's other  
Deej : 6/17/2017 11:31 am : link
In comment 13502718 Moondawg said:
Quote:
In comment 13502711 eclipz928 said:


Quote:


rape allegations were not permitted in the trial. This case pretty much had to stand on its own, which made a guilty verdict a long shot from the beginning. Mistrial is not surprising - we'll see what happens once he's retried.



I always wondered why character witnesses are allowed, but not evidence of prior acts. I get that in cosby's case, they haven't been proven, but if they were, they still couldn't be used in this case. Why?


The use of character evidence is very limited. If character is an essential element it comes in (defamation, child custody, negligent hiring). In other cases the rules are very strict. Usually, character fails the relevance test.

The general rule, exemplified by Federal Rule of Evidence 404(a)(1) is that "Evidence of a personís character or character trait is not admissible to prove that on a particular occasion the person acted in accordance with the character or trait."

There are listed exceptions in the rule. Defendant can open the door to it (arguing good character or in some circumstances attack the alleged victim, though there are rape shield laws and other limiting rules). In murder cases, the prosecutor is allowed to show that the (obviously absent) victim was a peaceful person.

A bit rule, 404(b)(1) is" Evidence of a crime, wrong, or other act is not admissible to prove a personís character in order to show that on a particular occasion the person acted in accordance with the character." But "This evidence may be admissible for another purpose, such as proving motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, absence of mistake, or lack of accident"

It's complicated. As a civil litigator I dont deal with it much. And state rules may vary.
Deej  
Klaatu : 6/17/2017 11:58 am : link
Quote:
There are listed exceptions in the rule. Defendant can open the door to it (arguing good character or in some circumstances attack the alleged victim, though there are rape shield laws and other limiting rules). In murder cases, the prosecutor is allowed to show that the (obviously absent) victim was a peaceful person.


I heard one lawyer on TV say that that's most likely why Cosby's team didn't have him testify.
Hollywood Rule # 1:  
MOOPS : 6/17/2017 12:45 pm : link
First felony is on the house.
RE: Ridiculous...  
Klaatu : 6/17/2017 12:49 pm : link
In comment 13502672 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
His supporters are very weird people. And there are a ton of them around here.


And they have the option of watching The Cosby Show reruns on not one, but two different cable channels.

I wonder when they'll show the episode featuring Lili Bernard?
RE: RE: Evidence and testimony related to Cosby's other  
Vanzetti : 6/17/2017 1:34 pm : link
In comment 13502718 Moondawg said:
Quote:
In comment 13502711 eclipz928 said:


Quote:


rape allegations were not permitted in the trial. This case pretty much had to stand on its own, which made a guilty verdict a long shot from the beginning. Mistrial is not surprising - we'll see what happens once he's retried.



I always wondered why character witnesses are allowed, but not evidence of prior acts. I get that in cosby's case, they haven't been proven, but if they were, they still couldn't be used in this case. Why?


I would guess that it came about to protect the victim's character from being used against her in court. You can not have one set of rules for the victim and another for the accused.
Any Information on how Jury Voted?  
Samiam : 6/17/2017 2:19 pm : link
Was it close or was there a single holdout? I'm guessing the latter which is why the DA quickly decided to retry Cosby
RE: Ridiculous...  
Mike from SI : 6/17/2017 2:39 pm : link
In comment 13502672 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
His supporters are very weird people. And there are a ton of them around here.


There are Cosby supporters around here? What is their perspective? I didn't even know he had supporters left.
MOOPS  
old man : 6/17/2017 3:31 pm : link
+1.
His stupid lawyer  
buford : 6/17/2017 4:04 pm : link
and some relative are trash talking everyone. They haven't won anything. It's ridiculous.
RE: RE: RE: Evidence and testimony related to Cosby's other  
buford : 6/17/2017 4:06 pm : link
In comment 13502798 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 13502718 Moondawg said:


Quote:


In comment 13502711 eclipz928 said:


Quote:


rape allegations were not permitted in the trial. This case pretty much had to stand on its own, which made a guilty verdict a long shot from the beginning. Mistrial is not surprising - we'll see what happens once he's retried.



I always wondered why character witnesses are allowed, but not evidence of prior acts. I get that in cosby's case, they haven't been proven, but if they were, they still couldn't be used in this case. Why?



I would guess that it came about to protect the victim's character from being used against her in court. You can not have one set of rules for the victim and another for the accused.


That's ridiculous. One is the accused and one isn't. And if the incidents relate to the charges being tried they are relevant.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Evidence and testimony related to Cosby's other  
Deej : 6/17/2017 4:40 pm : link
In comment 13502883 buford said:
Quote:
In comment 13502798 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


In comment 13502718 Moondawg said:


Quote:


In comment 13502711 eclipz928 said:


Quote:


rape allegations were not permitted in the trial. This case pretty much had to stand on its own, which made a guilty verdict a long shot from the beginning. Mistrial is not surprising - we'll see what happens once he's retried.



I always wondered why character witnesses are allowed, but not evidence of prior acts. I get that in cosby's case, they haven't been proven, but if they were, they still couldn't be used in this case. Why?



I would guess that it came about to protect the victim's character from being used against her in court. You can not have one set of rules for the victim and another for the accused.



That's ridiculous. One is the accused and one isn't. And if the incidents relate to the charges being tried they are relevant.


As I explained, the premise is incorrect. The use of character evidence in criminal cases is pretty curtailed. There are exceptions (MIMIC -- Motive, Intent, lack of Mistake, Identity, Common plan) and waiver.

The purpose isnt about the victim (though there are separate rape shield laws for that). The purpose of the rule is so criminal cases dont devolve into prosecutors just telling the jury that the defendant is a bad, dangerous guy, since juries would convict on that basis (ie get him off the street).
Thanks Deej  
Moondawg : 6/17/2017 4:51 pm : link
.
Too much to hope he gets pulled over?  
trueblueinpw : 6/17/2017 6:10 pm : link
By Jeronimo Yanez next time he's in Minnesota?
We all know he's guilty  
Gman11 : 6/17/2017 6:57 pm : link
but come on! It happened a long time ago. There is no physical evidence. There wasn't a way for her to prove her case. It doesn't mean he didn't do it, it just means there wasn't enough evidence to convict him.
RE: RE: Ridiculous...  
Chris in Philly : 6/17/2017 7:20 pm : link
In comment 13502840 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
In comment 13502672 Chris in Philly said:


Quote:


His supporters are very weird people. And there are a ton of them around here.



There are Cosby supporters around here? What is their perspective? I didn't even know he had supporters left.


In Philly there are. He's from here.
RE: Too much to hope he gets pulled over?  
Mr. Bungle : 6/17/2017 8:44 pm : link
In comment 13502946 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
By Jeronimo Yanez next time he's in Minnesota?

Except Yanez is no longer a police officer.
The only thing that bugs me  
Gman11 : 6/17/2017 8:54 pm : link
is that all the women that accused him of rape had the same story. He gave them pills and knocked them out and yadda, yadda.

Now you tell me, if you had a chick at your house and you told them to take some pills how many of them are going to say, "Yeah, sure. No problem. Where's the water?"
Did anyone actually watch the trial  
BlackLight : 6/17/2017 9:37 pm : link
or follow it particularly closely?

Because I remember when Casey Anthony got acquitted, it seemed like 100% of the people expressing shock, dismay, or outrage were people who didn't follow the proceedings at all. People who took the time to actually follow along with it weren't especially shocked at the verdict.
RE: Ridiculous...  
steve in ky : 6/17/2017 10:12 pm : link
In comment 13502672 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
His supporters are very weird people. And there are a ton of them around here.


Reminds me a little of Paterno supporters
His wife screwed up royally with her statement  
montanagiant : 6/18/2017 2:12 am : link
A nasty attack on the victims and Prosecutors that basically demands they respond with another trial
Well, I think it's all Kabuki theatre  
mavric : 6/18/2017 11:00 am : link
Whether he goes to prison or is set free, I could care less. It doesn't effect me or my family and will have zero effect on how rape is treated in this country for the average woman.

A few points (and I'm not male chauvinist and have daughters and granddaughters who are my life).

1) the world of the rich and famous is nothing like the world the rest of us live in. They play by different rules and there are unspoken rules among themselves.

2) the justice system in America treats the rich and famous completely different than the ordinary Joe. If justice was truly fair, there'd be as many rich and famous people in prison as there are poor folks

3) actresses trying to get a chance to break into Hollywood know the score and are well aware that sex is a bargaining chip for them to use if it will give them a leg up on the competition. Most (if not all) understand that when interviewing for a job or going out with a big name player, they will probably be expected to put out. If they are surprise that sex is expected, then they are fools. Actors and sports stars have had groupies tagging them for years and there is so much available sex to them that they don't even think about it.

4) When a person is "raped", they should go to the hospital for a rape kit as well as contact the police. When a woman is suddenly feeling guilty about a sexual encounter 40 years after the fact, and the guy she is going after happens to be filthy rich - I raise an eyebrow and figure someone is trying to shake down a guy for money. I suspect if Cosby offered any of the women a million dollars, they'd go away whistling and having a hard time keeping from smiling

5) whenever a case is propped up by fame seeking Gloria Allred, I am suspicious. Allred cares far, far more about face time on national TV and her own career than she does about the "victims". I do not trust that woman and know for a fact she has a bit (a lot) of con in her. She wants to be in the headlines whenever possible and if she has to manufacture outrage using a little (or a lot of) exaggeration, she will go that route. She has the ability to spin gold out of straw when it comes to "investigative journalism", as do a lot of talking heads looking for attention and money

-----------------------------------------

With all that in mind, I see this as Kabuki theatre with massive egos and gold digging victims. If the justice system was fair, there'd be a helluva lot of other rich and famous people in prison including Bill Clinton, Kobe Bryant, etc., and rich people like Jeffrey Epstein who was involved in decades of using underage girls (as young as 12) for sex, both for himself and his connected friends would get more than 13 months in prison.

I'll never forget Whoopi Goldberg talking and defending Roman Polanski on "The View". Polanski of course was a rich Hollywood film producer who had brought a 13 year old girl into his home for an interview as he was looking for a young girl for a part in a movie. He then forcibly raped the child and if all accounts are right, he also raped her anally. The girl left his home and cried her eyes out. Her mother called the police and took her daughter into the hospital for a rape kit. Polanski cut a plea deal in which he would serve "probation". But later, a judge said he wanted to give him 50 years in prison so Polanski fled to his native France where extradition of French citizens to the U.S. is prohibited. Now to what Whoopi said on national TV in defense of Polanski. "I don't care what anyone thinks, when that girl - regardless of age - wanted to break into Hollywood, she knew that sex would be expected. If she wanted the job, she should have bent over and took it like a man, just like the rest of us did because that's how you break into the business". It left my jaw dropped. But again - there are different rules for the rich and the famous. Whether Cosby walks or goes to prison, I really don't care. It's not going to change a damn thing in the grand scheme of things.
tl;dr...  
Chris in Philly : 6/18/2017 11:39 am : link
.
RE: Well, I think it's all Kabuki theatre  
Ron from Ninerland : 6/18/2017 5:56 pm : link
In comment 13503175 mavric said:
[quote] Whether he goes to prison or is set free, I could care less. It doesn't effect me or my family and will have zero effect on how rape is treated in this country for the average woman.

A few points (and I'm not male chauvinist and have daughters and granddaughters who are my life).

+1

You've hit the nail on the head. Cosby is a despicable human being however I don't have the least bit of sympathy for the "victims". As for Hollywood playing by different rules, its a double edge sword. If Joe Schmoe was accused of rape a decade or more after the fact it would never see the inside of the court room. So I'll add this D.A. to the list of scum suckers in this drama. This prosecution has nothing to do with Justice, it has everything to do with Marcia Clark getting a multi million dollar book deal for screwing up the OJ Simpson case
So let me get this straight, Ron...  
TheOtherManning : 6/18/2017 6:16 pm : link
You call Bill Cosby a despicable human being, presumably because you think he is guilty in some way of raping/assaulting a number of women. Yet you put quotation marks around the word victims and add that you have no sympathy for what they experienced. So what does that make you?
You guys don't see a difference...  
wigs in nyc : 6/18/2017 11:06 pm : link
in consensual sex and unknowingly being drugged? You think you know better how that is than these women?
RE: You guys don't see a difference...  
Mad Mike : 6/18/2017 11:54 pm : link
In comment 13503530 wigs in nyc said:
Quote:
in consensual sex and unknowingly being drugged? You think you know better how that is than these women?

Well, they used quotation marks around words like raped and victims. Clearly they have a deep understanding of the issues.
He's a serial rapist  
buford : 6/19/2017 7:23 am : link
end of story. Same as Darren Sharper who's in jail right now.
RE: You guys don't see a difference...  
mavric : 6/19/2017 8:06 am : link
In comment 13503530 wigs in nyc said:
Quote:
in consensual sex and unknowingly being drugged? You think you know better how that is than these women?


Actually, if you paid attention to the trial and testimony, Cosby invited girls to his place and offered them alcohol and drugs. They willingly took the drugs. It wasn't like he "slipped them a mickey". Not that that is right, but these women weren't helpless little virgins who had no idea what was up. They went along with Cosby knowing pretty much what the deal was about. Women don't go to a married man's pad, drink, do drugs, and then get surprised that the man wanted sex.

Again, not that it's right. I have no idea what kind of man Cosby is and neither does anyone on here. He could have a good heart or he could have a black heart - I have no idea. We also don't know what kind of women these women were who would go to a married man's room and get drunk and stoned with him and 40 years later complain about what happened.

Like I said. Hollywood plays by a different set of rules and anyone trying to break into the Hollywood scene or goes out with famous married men know a lot more about what it's about than us peons who are far removed from that lifestyle
Back to the Corner