sounds like a ploy to get the Lakers to move real assets for George so they don't risk the Cavs getting him and Lebron convincing him to stay. What would Indiana want with Love? Has to be a third team involved for that to work.
I also don't really get the George LA thing. How is George, Ball and a bunch of unproven young guys that haven't flashed very much potential at all going to compete in the west? They're a 7-8 seed at best, maybe 5-6 if Ball turns into a star. There are a lot of other teams that would give him a better shot at winning if that's what he wants.
if the Knicks fell in love with Mitchell. He's supposed to be a great kid with leadership qualities, brings more on offense than Frank and more on defense than Monk or Smith. Just seems like the kind of player Phil is looking for.
I believe it is about fulfilling a dream of his to play for the Lakers more than anything. Possibly also the challenge of being the man to bring the team back from the basement.
and asked for irving for George if i had to guess.
As for LA they would probably combine the George move with another move. Whether its another FA signing or trading assets for another star type. None of their kids look like stars, but with Russell, Randle, Ingram, Ball, clarkson, nance, zubac they could get in the convo for some good players.
Im not saying it will work, but i can see the appeal for George when you combine the assets on the team with LA.
don't understand how one could advocate for Frenchy but not be high on Mitchell. If anything if you are being realistic Frenchy's ceiling is likely only moderately higher than Mitchell's (better chance at being an above average 3 point weapon) but his floor is also significantly lower (run/jump athlete, less mature body etc).
don't understand how one could advocate for Frenchy but not be high on Mitchell. If anything if you are being realistic Frenchy's ceiling is likely only moderately higher than Mitchell's (better chance at being an above average 3 point weapon) but his floor is also significantly lower (run/jump athlete, less mature body etc).
i like both, but i like monk and smith better...
if monk and smith are gpne and they take mitchell or frank i am good with it...
now if they take kennard or jackson i am on the go fuck yourself phil bandwagon
would take Smith and Monk over both pretty easily. As I've noted I have 8 guys I "want most" and then a next tier where I like the prospects a decent amount less for various reasons.
actually like Kennard but Kennard or Jackson would have me close to giving up on the Knicks unless/until they were sold. They would be LOLKNICKS picks at 8 (though Kennard has some real helium right now).
RE: Lakers need to just risk it and wait for 2018.
Screw trading the young future for someone who might be coming to you for free anyways.
Exactly. Don't make the same mistake the Knicks made - trading half their team for Melo when he was coming to NY anyway. Indy is in a bind because everyone knows PG wants to go to LA. Maybe the Cavs make the move and hope to convince him and LeBron to stay, but no one else is giving up assets for one year of George.
But I think Kennard is more skilled than Korver (or even Reddick for that matter). I think he's closer to D-Lo than either of those 2. Late lottery/late first seems about right for him.
not advocating for Kennard at 8 but I think Kennard is a going to be a better overall offensive player than Korver. He plays the angles well (like many lefties do), he's shifty. He apparently put a whooping on Ferguson (supposedly a big time athlete) and a second unnamed "lock 1st" he worked out with. If we had another pick I wouldn't mind him at all. At 8? Yuckarooni.
RE: Lakers need to just risk it and wait for 2018.
Screw trading the young future for someone who might be coming to you for free anyways.
I just don't trust that he won't sign with the team that will hold his bird rights. The 28th pick, Clarkson, and Deng for George. Although I'm sure they,won't trade him to LA unless they get either Ingram or the number 2 pick
not advocating for Kennard at 8 but I think Kennard is a going to be a better overall offensive player than Korver. He plays the angles well (like many lefties do), he's shifty. He apparently put a whooping on Ferguson (supposedly a big time athlete) and a second unnamed "lock 1st" he worked out with. If we had another pick I wouldn't mind him at all. At 8? Yuckarooni.
I'm with you here. Kennard is better at creating his own shot than Korver or JJ Redick for that matter were/are at his age. He reminds me more of Gordon Hayward but at the 2 guard. He's not nearly as athletic but is more so than the prototypical white guy 3 point specialist he gets compared to often. Taking Monk at 8 and trading for a second first rounder to get Kennard would've been my dream scenario but with the way Kennard is climbing up boards, that's a pipe dream.
To your other point on Frank vs Mitchell, the floor is clearly much lower for Frank but having watched him play a few full games, you can see the ceiling is there. Part of the reason he doesn't have a quick first step can be attributed to his lower body strength. His legs are like toothpicks today so if he builds some muscle down there, I could see the narrative on his athleticism and first step changing. Will he get there? Who knows, but it certainly will take time. Personally I'd take Mitchell over Frank though.
Anyone else think all the Frank love is a bit too calculated for Phil's Knicks? Since Phil came here, they've kept everything very close to the vest. Nobody mentioned any interest in KP until DraftExpress the day of the draft but before that we heard repeatedly that they liked Winslow, WCS, some said Mudiay, then Lyles and Kaminsky (and one reporter even said that they loved Hezonja and had video conferenced with him the night before the draft). The Frank noise has been loud since April. That's old Jerry Reese behavior, not Phil Jackson. The tweet below was just a few hours before they took KP.
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Sources: Knicks currently leaning toward Mudiay if they stay at No. 4, Kaminsky if they move down
said he studied Manu tapes during the last off-season and while he's not Manu (a future HOFer) he has some of the quirky/awkward moves that really seem to work for him. I agree at least in terms of game speed is a better athlete than he's given credit for. I think he may have major problems defensively however. Doesn't have especially quick feet and has short arms/wingspan
like we have another year of Melodrama. If the Clips are off the board, and the Cavs aren't interested, where are we turning. Washington could still work I guess, if he's receptive.
like we have another year of Melodrama. If the Clips are off the board, and the Cavs aren't interested, where are we turning. Washington could still work I guess, if he's receptive.
At this point, I wish we could ditch Phil instead of Melo.
like we have another year of Melodrama. If the Clips are off the board, and the Cavs aren't interested, where are we turning. Washington could still work I guess, if he's receptive.
I think the Wizards would be a great fit, but it would take some creative accounting to get him under the Wiz's cap. What contracts would NYK be willing to take back? Mahinmi? Yuck.
has to be off the team at all costs. If it's a buyout thats fine too.
Keeping him doesn't make sense under any circumstance. The knicks need to completely move on
I dont agree, so Im curious as to why you think this. I think if Melo comes back and is told "you do X and Y and Z or you dont play" then he'll do it. Or he wont play. I still think that physically KP isnt ready to be the #1 option. I think there is fair room for debate whether you just throw the babe to the wolves or you shelter him. I dont think there is a clearly right answer.
Fundamentally, I think Melo is a good guy/teammate. I think he's an inconsistent and unwilling defender, and needs to move the ball more. But for the first time in his career you can fairly say "play my way or dont play at all". I'd rather trade him for assets but it's not an imperative. And if we keep him I believe he will either shape up or opt out after the season.
Meh. Im firmly in the camp that Blake is too much of a risk for anyone but LAC, which has no choice. He's injury prone and his style (relying on a massive athletic edge) is a huge red flag.
is Griffin and Paul basically locked DeAndre Jordan in his house to prevent him from signing with Dallas, and now those two may bolt and leave him there holding the bag. I'm sure Doc has his exit strategy planned, too.
beyond stunned how many Knicks fans on twitter and reddit are open to Rose coming back. NO NO NO.
If Rose is back then this will be the first year that I do not watch the Knicks. I usually watch every game and go to a couple a year but that will push me to taking a year off.
has to be off the team at all costs. If it's a buyout thats fine too.
Keeping him doesn't make sense under any circumstance. The knicks need to completely move on
I dont agree, so Im curious as to why you think this. I think if Melo comes back and is told "you do X and Y and Z or you dont play" then he'll do it. Or he wont play. I still think that physically KP isnt ready to be the #1 option. I think there is fair room for debate whether you just throw the babe to the wolves or you shelter him. I dont think there is a clearly right answer.
Fundamentally, I think Melo is a good guy/teammate. I think he's an inconsistent and unwilling defender, and needs to move the ball more. But for the first time in his career you can fairly say "play my way or dont play at all". I'd rather trade him for assets but it's not an imperative. And if we keep him I believe he will either shape up or opt out after the season.
Not speaking for Mook here, but from my angle is that keeping Melo around does absolutely nothing to help this team long term. It would creat a circus all season and stunt the growth of young players that would benefit from the playing time. And Melo would probably also mean that this team wins a few more games than they would without him. They would still not make the playoffs and would cost themselves draft position, and for what?
but rumor has it the Wolves will take Isaac with their pick if he's still on the board.
Dan, any other Knicks rumblings you've heard recently?
I haven't really reached out to the guy I know in a few days. I try not to bother him too much but last we spoke he basically had the same info we are hearing. That Phil likes Monk and Frenchy a whole lot, he said Gaines is very high on DSJ (he didn't say if that meant Phil wasn't etc) and that the Knicks were still snooping around for an additional first but that the prices for extra picks were "extreme" and doubted it would happen. He said the Knicks worked out an "unusual" amount of 2nd rounders (more than past years, which may be due to 2 picks, or (he suggested) guys they may be looking to invite to camp and/or add an additional 2nd (he said the prices for 2nds are also very, very high right now).
are also rumors (likely related) that Thibs is "Isaac or bust" and might look to deal the pick in a deal for a "veteran" if he's not there.... no not Courtney Lee lol
doesn't really get enough credit for being a pretty smart kid. He studies film heavily, he impressed teams with how prepared he was with numbers and comments regarding how their offense is run etc. I say that because he's lumped in with guys like Rose (I have no idea if Rose is a student of the game) but he doesn't exactly come off as one. Smith supposedly was one of the guys who has been "most impressive" in his meetings/workouts.
but rumor has it the Wolves will take Isaac with their pick if he's still on the board.
Makes a lot of sense. If Isaac is gone which looks likely at the moment, I think Minnesota would take Monk or DSJ, not Markannen as Ford and others have in their mocks. They were dead last in a bunch of outside shooting metrics and I believe dead last or close to dead last in bench scoring. Dunn was terrible and given that he wasn't a euro or came out after 1 year, it's hard to think they have much confidence in his ability to improve fast enough for them to contend for a playoff spot especially if Rubio is dealt.
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Frank Ntilikina's coach at Strasbourg, Vincent Collet, will coach with the Mavs Orlando Summer League team - Dallas all in on Ntilikina
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Frank Ntilikina's coach at Strasbourg, Vincent Collet, will coach with the Mavs Orlando Summer League team - Dallas all in on Ntilikina
I wonder what this means. If they weren't going to get him it would be a bizarre move and it's not like Frank can choose where he plays. Maybe they have a deal worked out with Minnesota to jump us?
like the Wizards "implied" to Gortat that he's the big they are going to move and not Mahinmi
random 3-way deal off the top of my head:
Knicks get: Oubre, Teletovic, Markieff Morris + somebody's protected first rounder
Bucks get: Gortat
Wizards get: Melo
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Frank Ntilikina's coach at Strasbourg, Vincent Collet, will coach with the Mavs Orlando Summer League team - Dallas all in on Ntilikina
wonder if they have a deal in place perhaps with minny to move up..
minny only does it if isaac is gone..
take fwiw a guy on realgm claims to have a source with the kings says they want smith who killed their workout, if that is true does fox drop?
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Knicks have strong interest in Ntilikina too. Mavs have done a better job recruiting and building relationships. He wants to be in Dallas
since when do you have to "recruit" a draft pick? What the fuck?
Chad FordVerified account @chadfordinsider
Knicks have strong interest in Ntilikina too. Mavs have done a better job recruiting and building relationships. He wants to be in Dallas
since when do you have to "recruit" a draft pick? What the fuck?
Very bizarre unless there's a possibility he sticks around in Europe for a year or two like Rubio did but I haven't heard that mentioned once.
Chad FordVerified account @chadfordinsider
Knicks have strong interest in Ntilikina too. Mavs have done a better job recruiting and building relationships. He wants to be in Dallas
since when do you have to "recruit" a draft pick? What the fuck?
Chad FordVerified account @chadfordinsider
Knicks have strong interest in Ntilikina too. Mavs have done a better job recruiting and building relationships. He wants to be in Dallas
since when do you have to "recruit" a draft pick? What the fuck?
Probably mean the Mavs had people over there often. Didn't the Knicks have their international scouts hang around KP before the draft?
than NY at 8 to seemingly commit to Frank. Much like it's easier for us to commit to Monk than it is for a team at 4/5.
Also worth noting: Best Dallas pick by far in a decade is Crowder. They havent drafted this high in a while, and often trade their #1, but they've squeeze very, very little out of the draft over the last decade (see link, sort for Mavs). Link - ( New Window )
Igoudola will meet with other teams outside GSW. Expected to get 20mill a year. Jazz, Clippers, Wolves, Bulls and Hawks interested. Lowe said to watch out for Minny but expects him to stay in GS.
I think Thibs offers him big money. 4 years between 90-100 mill. Would the Warriors really match that ?
Igoudola will meet with other teams outside GSW. Expected to get 20mill a year. Jazz, Clippers, Wolves, Bulls and Hawks interested. Lowe said to watch out for Minny but expects him to stay in GS.
I think Thibs offers him big money. 4 years between 90-100 mill. Would the Warriors really match that ?
That would could be worse than the contracts given out last offseason. Jesus what a mistake
Alex KennedyVerified account @AlexKennedyNBA 2m2 minutes ago
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Canyon Barry works out for the Warriors on Tuesday. He previously worked out for the Knicks, Spurs, Kings, Nuggets.
Brian Geltzeiler @hoopscritic 2m2 minutes ago
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Hearing that Ntilikina is passing Monk on many draft boards. Mavs likely to grab him at 9 if the Knicks don't take him first...
He didn't really say the Heat were interested, he just said the Knicks should call them if the Heat don't land Paul George or Jimmy Butler.
He also mentioned the thing about Frenchy's coach overseas being brought on board by the Mavs for Summer League, so maybe they know something we don't about him dropping past NY (or the Mavs moving up).
considering where we think Melo's value is. Johnson at worst looks like a great 6th man who could possibly be more. I could care less about winslow, but considering he would be a throw in to me ill take it. I mean johnson and 14 would be great. Adding Johnson and 8 and 14 would have me fairly excited for a young core.
And not dominating has me concerned. Hell not even playing much (yes I know vets get priority over there). I'm looking for a big time impact player (maybe All Star here). Frank isn't that type of guy. Time to roll the bones!
He covers the Heat - if he knew they were pursuing Melo he would've been far more definitive. He was simply saying the Knicks should be on the phone with the teams that miss out on George and Butler.
up 2, Frenchy not in the game for defense. Slaughter with a beautiful finish, Clark (no idea the first name) absolutely screwed with an offensive foul call.
He covers the Heat - if he knew they were pursuing Melo he would've been far more definitive. He was simply saying the Knicks should be on the phone with the teams that miss out on George and Butler.
We can't take that kid at 8. A trade down maybe. At #8 is too much potential. And for all you who want Melo & Rose gone, we need someone to put the ball in the hoop.
We can't take that kid at 8. A trade down maybe. At #8 is too much potential. And for all you who want Melo & Rose gone, we need someone to put the ball in the hoop.
Unless it's truly all smoke they seemingly love him so I guess we have to hope for the best. A bit of a red flag he wasn't even in there late for his defense so while he may end up a good defender his coach didn't think he was "so good" right now he had to be in there. The Knicks are still running some workouts (which may mean nothing, or maybe they are considering trading back or they aren't sold on who they want?).
He covers the Heat - if he knew they were pursuing Melo he would've been far more definitive. He was simply saying the Knicks should be on the phone with the teams that miss out on George and Butler.
that would be sort of ironic if Melo ends up in Miami after all of his buddies are gone. But yeah, a patient approach like that is what Phil needs to do. There are a ton of big names that might switch teams this summer (Paul George, Blake, LMA, Love)...there may be opportunities to insert Melo into 3 and 4 team deals involving these guys. He doesn't need to jump on whatever crap trade is available on draft night.
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The Cavaliers, per league sources, have been working today on assembling multi-team trade scenarios to try to acquire Chicago's Jimmy Butler
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The Cavaliers, per league sources, have been working today on assembling multi-team trade scenarios to try to acquire Chicago's Jimmy Butler
Hard to imagine Kyrie not being involved. And if it's the cavs that are the ones working on this I'm not sure how much to believe if Irving isn't involved.
Kyrie is a bad defender. I'd have to look at how the Cavs would staff the 1 though. They lacked PG depth event with Kyrie.
If Butler put up that season last year on a better team he'd be talked about more as just outside the top 5 or so players. Though he's less naturally talented, so I feel like he could come back to the pack a little.
Supposedly DSJ won't let any teams examine his knees
a few months back on Smith. The premise was that he plays above the rim just like Derrick Rose, and lands like Rose - with his legs straight instead of bent, with maximum impact on his knees. A similar injury fate was predicted. Needless to say it scared the hell outta me.
I wish I could remember which TV reporter/analyst said Griffin was going to be the "fall guy" despite LeBron's fingerprints being on most (if not all) of the team's moves.
RE: Supposedly DSJ won't let any teams examine his knees
I wish I could remember which TV reporter/analyst said Griffin was going to be the "fall guy" despite LeBron's fingerprints being on most (if not all) of the team's moves.
The sentiment is true, but Griffin wasnt fired. His contract and I think this was just a money issue -- he wanted more than the team would give.
RE: RE: Supposedly DSJ won't let any teams examine his knees
that Chauncey was a big proponent of trading Love for Melo while dishing those hot takes on ESPN. Not saying GM Chauncey would do that, but it's one reason to root for him to get the job.
that Chauncey was a big proponent of trading Love for Melo while dishing those hot takes on ESPN. Not saying GM Chauncey would do that, but it's one reason to root for him to get the job.
He has also made comments about thinking that the best situation for Melo would be with another star, a guy that he respects and can be the leader so Carmelo doesn't have to be that guy. Sounds a lot like Lebron.
Crowder smart and Rozier is still the most realistic trade I've heard. Fail to see how love gets you Butler. George makes sense if Bird is just trying to find a valuable return for PG.
griffin had no interest in trading for carmelo, and now they are trying to bring in a guy who said on national tv that he woukd trade melo for love...
sam amick made a good point though, if lebron is leaving shouldnt you try to stay compwtitive but not kill your future?
Mm ales me think that the disagreement was around trading Kyrie for a potential one year George rental. It's not like they have picks to deal for a long time so it has to be one side wanting to mortgage the young guy under contract for being left with nothing in the future I would think.
that Chauncey was a big proponent of trading Love for Melo while dishing those hot takes on ESPN. Not saying GM Chauncey would do that, but it's one reason to root for him to get the job.
He has also made comments about thinking that the best situation for Melo would be with another star, a guy that he respects and can be the leader so Carmelo doesn't have to be that guy. Sounds a lot like Lebron.
That's how I've always felt about Melo. He shouldnt be your best player/leader.
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For now, LA resisting salary dumps on Mozgov or Deng needed to clear future space. Teams trying to snag pick/young player to absorb deals.
Unlike the Knicks, the Lakers get that you dont burn assets to make cap space unless and until you have a deal lined up to get a star with the new $$.
Woj is being kind here though. Those contracts are burdens that nobody wants.
No, I think he tweet admits that, with the last clause about teams wanting pick/young player to "absorb" deals.
My point is that the Lakers seem smart about this. Yes, maybe give an asset to move Mozgov, but hold off on it. It may never be necessary b/c they may never need the cap space. Knicks for years have been trading assets in advance of having deals lined up to fill the cap space. E.g. Summer of LeBron, TC trade. So we burn an asset, and then miss our Plan As and use the space on plan Bs, Cs, and Ds (Amare instead of LeBron, Rolo instead of Deandre or Aldridge).
CP3 would be the wrong direction for this franchise.
No more so then the direction I expect them to take. Jeff Teague, George Hill etc. At least with Paul you could "dream" on a Paul/Melo/KP/Willy + say Monk core doing something. I'm pro total rebuild. I just expect a lesser version of chasing Chris Paul.
Teams are trying to decide whats the appropriate cost for a player who theyre being told, pretty adamantly by Paul Georges camp, will be a rental."
"No matter who you are, no matter who has checked in or who potentially will check in, theyre going to be told that Paul George is gonna play the season out and then hes gonna go to the Lakers, that thats his plan.
@LakerFilmRoom
Chad Ford trying to put 2 + 2 together after reading a Ramona Shelburne report does not constitute a rumor, much less news. C'mon, guys.
@LakerFilmRoom
Chad Ford trying to put 2 + 2 together after reading a Ramona Shelburne report does not constitute a rumor, much less news. C'mon, guys.
chad ford is garbage i dont know why anyone believes anything he says..
he has been caugh editing his mocj drafts durong the draft to make it look like he got more than wrong right
Rank Player "Glass is half full" Comp
1 Lonzo Ball Jason Kidd
2 Markelle Fullz Andrew Wiggins
3 Jayson Tatum Carmelo Anthony
4 Dearron Fox John Wall
5 Josh Jackson Jimmy Butler
6 Jonathan Isaac Brandon Ingram
7 Malik Monk Lou Williams
8 Donovan Mitchell Avery Bradley
9 Dennis Smith Jr. Baron Davis
10 Lauri Markannen Ryan Anderson
11 Frank Mason Kyle Lowry
12 Frank Ntilikina Khris Middleton
13 TJ Leaf Taj Gibson
14 Zach Collins Greg Monroe
15 Justin Patton Clint Capela
16 Jarret Allen Marcus Camby
17 Luke Kennard Joe Ingles
18 Derrick White Grevis Vasquez
19 Jonah Bolden Marquess Chris
20 Semi Ojeleye Jae Crowder
21 Justin Jackson Tayshaun Prince
22 Jordan Bell Amir Johnson
23 DJ Wilson Sam Dekker
24 Cam Oliver Kenneth Faried
25 Bam Adebayo Derrick Favors
26 OG Anunoby MKG
27 Josh Hart Courtney Lee
28 John Collins Brice Johnson
29 Kyle Kuzma Jared Dudley
30 Frank Jackson Monte Ellis
31 Sindarious Thornwell Wesley Matthews
32 Dillon Brooks Aaron Afflalo
33 Damyean Dotson Michael Finley
34 Ike Aninqbogu Bismack Biyumbo
35 Jonathan Motley Dewayne Dedmon
36 Caleb Swanigan Kyle O'Quinn
37 Tony Bradley John Henson
38 Tyler Lydon Channing Frye
39 Terrance Ferguson Corey Brewer
40 Juwun Evans Patty Mills
is opting out of 16.2 and will get a "longer" deal at a lower number.
Wow this is surprising. I can't see how it's possible, but I'd love to see that the Spurs go all out and try to get CP3 and Paul George. That team could seriously compete with GSW. But this tells me the Spurs have something cooking.
said the Suns were going to send #4 to the Cavs for Love and the pick was going to head to Indiana or Chicago for Butler or George (or that was the hope of Griffin).
said the Suns were going to send #4 to the Cavs for Love and the pick was going to head to Indiana or Chicago for Butler or George (or that was the hope of Griffin).
said the Suns were going to send #4 to the Cavs for Love and the pick was going to head to Indiana or Chicago for Butler or George (or that was the hope of Griffin).
i wouldnt send it for george, i would for butler
Why wouldn't the suns demand Butler for that? Why would any team do all the dirty work for the cavs and give the bulls the requisite return but receive the lesser player? I can't see how Butler to Cleveland works In the slightest.
I'm not the biggest fan of his but people severely underestimate how good the guy is. The only reason for the Cavs to trade him is the matchup with GSW. Any other team it's not an issue. A stretch 4 who can score 25 a game and is an elite rebounder? Not easy to find.
And what the hell is Gilbert thinking? I don't view Griffin as highly as some people but this timing couldn't be any worse. Not to mention possibly angering Lebron. Gilbert is such an asshole- he doesn't deserve that team.
I'm not the biggest fan of his but people severely underestimate how good the guy is. The only reason for the Cavs to trade him is the matchup with GSW. Any other team it's not an issue. A stretch 4 who can score 25 a game and is an elite rebounder? Not easy to find.
And what the hell is Gilbert thinking? I don't view Griffin as highly as some people but this timing couldn't be any worse. Not to mention possibly angering Lebron. Gilbert is such an asshole- he doesn't deserve that team.
-similar reach despite the 2" height diff
-expectation that both should be adequate from "3" i.e. 35-37%, and do much of their damage mid range and closer
-anticipation of mid 20s scoring avg in their primes
-defensive indifference
I see some James Harden comps thrown around for Fullz but due to the athletic gap, righty vs lefty etc. I don't see that.
Anyway I think we have a reasonable idea of what Fullz will be even if there isn't an obvious parallel. I wouldn't get carried away with 1 of 40 comps.
But whatever. Fultz and Wiggins are on different planets as a shooter, ball handler, passer, athleticism, etc. size isn't even comparable they're like 3-4 inches apart.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account @WojVerticalNBA 44s44 seconds ago
Sources: Phil Jackson met with Lauri Markkanen in New York on Monday, a player whom he's considering at No. 8 should Knicks move Porzingis.Adrian Wojnarowski added,
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account @WojVerticalNBA
Sources: As teams become aware Phil Jackson isn't ruling out possibility of trading Kristaps Porzingis, frenzy of interest is growing today.
Ian Begley
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Knicks have gotten several calls from teams interested in trading for Kristaps Porzingis, per sources: http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0668835824577550669-4
not even sure it's worth "exploring". He's 22. What are teams giving up that makes it worth your while? 3 1sts? You pray firsts are even NBA players let alone potential superstars. Sure, if someone does something ridiculous you don't hang up the phone but I'd have to be truly blown away. I would't take say the T wolves next 3 1sts for him.
what if you get 3, jaylen brown next years bkn pick, next years la pick and 1 more first?
and in my personal opinion this is woj trying to stir up knicks fans, 2 years ago before the lottery he said it was a 4 player draft, then it became 3 when knicks got 4 then it was knicks do not like anyone and are trading out...
I doubt this. You said you were done if 2010 didn't go well & they've been incompetent for almost a decade since.
I already promised if Derrick Rose returns I will not be posting on any Knicks threads in 2018 and I will 100% stick to that. If they trade KP (obviously the return would matter) but I'd probably be fully finished with the Knicks. They make me sick.
what if you get 3, jaylen brown next years bkn pick, next years la pick and 1 more first?
and in my personal opinion this is woj trying to stir up knicks fans, 2 years ago before the lottery he said it was a 4 player draft, then it became 3 when knicks got 4 then it was knicks do not like anyone and are trading out...
this is the media stirring up drama
So Ainge is giving up every single chip he added for KP? Lets be realistic here. Ainge if anything is a hoarder and he has his eyes on guys like Anthony Davis. KP isn't bringing back #3 overall, Brown, Nets pick, Lakers pick and 1 more first... that's a deal for a top 5 player in the NBA.
but why work out Markkanen? No way he's a fit with KP and Willy, even if he's BPA at #8 in Phil's mind. If that workout actually happened, it does add some intrigue.
not even sure it's worth "exploring". He's 22. What are teams giving up that makes it worth your while? 3 1sts? You pray firsts are even NBA players let alone potential superstars. Sure, if someone does something ridiculous you don't hang up the phone but I'd have to be truly blown away. I would't take say the T wolves next 3 1sts for him.
I'm with this but i also agree with the "kings" ransom concert BC suggested. Like what if the wolves did this years first, Dunn and Lavine plus another first next year?
It would have to be an obviously lopsided deal and I'd want a guy with star upside in return (obviously Lavine's upside is in the he of the beholder, but given his athleticism and elite shooting ability I'd throw him as a very high upside option).
Boston would have to unload a bevy of picks as I don't see what their high upside option would be. I'm not sure I even take #3 and brown for him.
- 2017 #3 overall
- Better of Lakers conditional or Nets unconditional 2018 (determined after the lottery)
- Best of their 2019 picks (Philly, Sacto, Memphis, LAC)
- Marcus Smart
Thing is, I dont think Phil wants to play that long game.
what if you get 3, jaylen brown next years bkn pick, next years la pick and 1 more first?
and in my personal opinion this is woj trying to stir up knicks fans, 2 years ago before the lottery he said it was a 4 player draft, then it became 3 when knicks got 4 then it was knicks do not like anyone and are trading out...
this is the media stirring up drama
So Ainge is giving up every single chip he added for KP? Lets be realistic here. Ainge if anything is a hoarder and he has his eyes on guys like Anthony Davis. KP isn't bringing back #3 overall, Brown, Nets pick, Lakers pick and 1 more first... that's a deal for a top 5 player in the NBA.
then you hang up and say thanks but no thanks...
you only do it if your blown away..
i still dont believe it, i think this woj just riling up knicks fans 2 days before the draft..
What exactly would the point be of trading Porzingis?
Isn't the idea that the Knicks need MORE players like him to actually be competitive again? The entire point of lottery picks is so that you can get a player like Porzingis and rebuild your team.
I doubt the Knicks will actually trade him, I just don't understand why it would even be a consideration.
I'm with this but i also agree with the "kings" ransom concert BC suggested. Like what if the wolves did this years first, Dunn and Lavine plus another first next year?
That's a Duke's ransom. That's a mid lottery pick this year, a mid lottery pick or worse next year, Dunn (was dreadful and isnt young), and Lavine who is good but you have to max him out soon.
Kings ransom is BOS's best pick each of the next 3 seasons.
What exactly would the point be of trading Porzingis?
Isn't the idea that the Knicks need MORE players like him to actually be competitive again? The entire point of lottery picks is so that you can get a player like Porzingis and rebuild your team.
I doubt the Knicks will actually trade him, I just don't understand why it would even be a consideration.
Correct. You fire Phil before you trade KP, unless you get a total come to Jesus offer
not even sure it's worth "exploring". He's 22. What are teams giving up that makes it worth your while? 3 1sts? You pray firsts are even NBA players let alone potential superstars. Sure, if someone does something ridiculous you don't hang up the phone but I'd have to be truly blown away. I would't take say the T wolves next 3 1sts for him.
I'm with this but i also agree with the "kings" ransom concert BC suggested. Like what if the wolves did this years first, Dunn and Lavine plus another first next year?
It would have to be an obviously lopsided deal and I'd want a guy with star upside in return (obviously Lavine's upside is in the he of the beholder, but given his athleticism and elite shooting ability I'd throw him as a very high upside option).
Boston would have to unload a bevy of picks as I don't see what their high upside option would be. I'm not sure I even take #3 and brown for him.
Yeah. The deal would have to be lopsided in our favor with the team trading for him believing he's going to help them quicker than the picks and/or absolutely loving him. I wouldn't do an "even value" trade, the downside is too great. If he's a future top 10 player (which I believe he can be) and the return are 2-3 "starters" it's a bad trade. Stars league. Dunn was so bad I basically assign him "throw in" value so LaVine, + #3 + a 1st from a team that figures to be quite good with KP/KAT/Wiggins.... in fact a team like that suddenly becomes really, really intriguing/exciting while we pray for the future. yuck.
I'm with this but i also agree with the "kings" ransom concert BC suggested. Like what if the wolves did this years first, Dunn and Lavine plus another first next year?
That's a Duke's ransom. That's a mid lottery pick this year, a mid lottery pick or worse next year, Dunn (was dreadful and isnt young), and Lavine who is good but you have to max him out soon.
Kings ransom is BOS's best pick each of the next 3 seasons.
Obviously injury needs to be factored in but to me Lavine is More of a sure thing than any potential pick. If the nets pick next year is in consideration that certainly changes things the top of next years class is incredibly intriguing. But my guess is ainge would try to make a deal with giving up more of lesser 1sts rather than a home run pick like the nets.
Ian Begley @IanBegley 15m15 minutes ago
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No one from the Knicks organization has been in touch with Kristaps Porzingis since he skipped exit meetings, per league sources.
I can't believe some of you advocating for a KP trade. Truly unbelievable. I hate this team and I can't believe they gave this clown Phil Jackson another offseason.
And for everyone saying Woj hates the Knicks. He heaped praised on Phil for picking KP.
I'm speechless. I can't believe people would want Jaylen Brown and draft picks for him. You pray a draft pick ends up like KP and one you find him you don't trade him. I'm 100% done with this team if this goes down.
I'm with this but i also agree with the "kings" ransom concert BC suggested. Like what if the wolves did this years first, Dunn and Lavine plus another first next year?
That's a Duke's ransom. That's a mid lottery pick this year, a mid lottery pick or worse next year, Dunn (was dreadful and isnt young), and Lavine who is good but you have to max him out soon.
Kings ransom is BOS's best pick each of the next 3 seasons.
Obviously injury needs to be factored in but to me Lavine is More of a sure thing than any potential pick. If the nets pick next year is in consideration that certainly changes things the top of next years class is incredibly intriguing. But my guess is ainge would try to make a deal with giving up more of lesser 1sts rather than a home run pick like the nets.
Sure thing to what end? What the fuck is a Lavine led team going to get you to? Ever.
But KP hasn't exactly been the consummate professional. I know he's 22 and all, but he's acting like an petulant little child. How much is he getting paid? And he's going to cut off all communications with his employer? I don't care how incompetent they are.
Come on, KP. We praised you for your maturity at such a young age, but this is not a good look.
I can't believe some of you advocating for a KP trade. Truly unbelievable. I hate this team and I can't believe they gave this clown Phil Jackson another offseason.
And for everyone saying Woj hates the Knicks. He heaped praised on Phil for picking KP.
I'm speechless. I can't believe people would want Jaylen Brown and draft picks for him. You pray a draft pick ends up like KP and one you find him you don't trade him. I'm 100% done with this team if this goes down.
woj does hate the knicks and that has been proven...
he said in an article knicks were not signing anyonr because walsh was in a wheelchair...
he also when knicks hired phil said phil would never go there and he was going back to the lakers and it was a great move...
next day phil signs with knicks and he calls it a horrible move...
he has admitted in an article he trashes teams and players who dont give him info and praises teams that do
on Woj all you want but once Begley chimes in it';s bad, bad news.
this, once begely started chiming in it became real to me...
i am hoping it is as simple has phil answering the phone and talking to a team and phil saying no but the team leaked knicks didnt completely dismiss tradd
But KP hasn't exactly been the consummate professional. I know he's 22 and all, but he's acting like an petulant little child. How much is he getting paid? And he's going to cut off all communications with his employer? I don't care how incompetent they are.
Come on, KP. We praised you for your maturity at such a young age, but this is not a good look.
Who says he cut off all communictions? That is not what the Begley post says.
because of this snit over the exit meeting, I'm probably done with the NBA for a while. The league would have to take the team away, which it will never do barring something worse than the Donald Sterling tape.
In a league currently obsessed with both point-guard play and youth, it should be no surprise that Frank Ntilikina has found his name near the top of most NBA draft boards. The 6-foot-5 native of France is one of the youngest players in this draft at age 18, and comes off a season in which he was the youngest player to get rotation-level minutes in both the French LNB Pro A league and the Basketball Champions League.
It goes on to examine percentile-wise how his metrics stack up in the league he played, noting that his Net Rating, O Rating and D Rating were all exceptional, despite the fact that he was by far the youngest player in the league. Link - ( New Window )
But KP hasn't exactly been the consummate professional. I know he's 22 and all, but he's acting like an petulant little child. How much is he getting paid? And he's going to cut off all communications with his employer? I don't care how incompetent they are.
Come on, KP. We praised you for your maturity at such a young age, but this is not a good look.
Who says he cut off all communictions? That is not what the Begley post says.
Ian Begley @IanBegley
To clarify: NYK management, coaches have not been in touch with Porzingis since the skipped exit meeting. Teammates (Kuzminskas, Willy) have
watched most of the Strasbourg game yesterday and came away thoroughly unimpressed. If he's the pick I will root for him (if KP is gone I won't even care who we pick). But he didn't stand out in any way. His arms look long (as expected), he gives good effort defensively but didn't stand out as an athlete and didn't look for his shot or create shots for others.
because of this snit over the exit meeting, I'm probably done with the NBA for a while. The league would have to take the team away, which it will never do barring something worse than the Donald Sterling tape.
Between all of us, we could probably come up with a pretty good frame job on Dolan. Sure, we might face jail time if we got caught, but it's probably worth the risk.
But KP hasn't exactly been the consummate professional. I know he's 22 and all, but he's acting like an petulant little child. How much is he getting paid? And he's going to cut off all communications with his employer? I don't care how incompetent they are.
Come on, KP. We praised you for your maturity at such a young age, but this is not a good look.
Who says he cut off all communictions? That is not what the Begley post says.
Ian Begley @IanBegley
To clarify: NYK management, coaches have not been in touch with Porzingis since the skipped exit meeting. Teammates (Kuzminskas, Willy) have
Which words in there say that KP cut off communications?
I havent talked to my friend Matt in 2 months. Would any sentient human jump to the conclusion that I cut off communications with him based on that fact alone?
If Booker is under consideration for being able to be a PG why exactly couldn't Lavine be that? To me Lavine is a more athletic version of Booker. All the advanced metrics bear that Lavine is a more efficient player than Booker and doesn't lag far behind KP (he's like 3 months younger than KP too).
So besides injury I don't know why Lavine is considered some average bum but Booker and KP are automatically guys you can center a franchise around.
but the notion that Lavine is a more athletic version of Booker, end of story, is bonkers. Booker's shooting skill is through the roof. Not fully refined yet, but his potential is to be the best shooter not named Steph Curry.
should also be noted that the talent level in the league Frenchy plays in is WELL below NBA levels. I've watched FIBA, I've watched ACB, I've even seen CBA games. French LNB Pro A league doesn't even have the random ex-NBA players you see in other leagues. The D (now G league) has more NBA talent.
But KP hasn't exactly been the consummate professional. I know he's 22 and all, but he's acting like an petulant little child. How much is he getting paid? And he's going to cut off all communications with his employer? I don't care how incompetent they are.
Come on, KP. We praised you for your maturity at such a young age, but this is not a good look.
Who says he cut off all communictions? That is not what the Begley post says.
Ian Begley @IanBegley
To clarify: NYK management, coaches have not been in touch with Porzingis since the skipped exit meeting. Teammates (Kuzminskas, Willy) have
Which words in there say that KP cut off communications?
I havent talked to my friend Matt in 2 months. Would any sentient human jump to the conclusion that I cut off communications with him based on that fact alone?
Deej, c'mon. Your example is totally different.
The implication from the Knicks/KP situation is that KP skipped the exit meetings (while staying in New York) and then subsequently fled to Latvia in order to avoid all communications with the Knicks and that seems to have rung true.
They haven't spoken. There's no communication between the two parties. It's extremely alarming.
but the notion that Lavine is a more athletic version of Booker, end of story, is bonkers. Booker's shooting skill is through the roof. Not fully refined yet, but his potential is to be the best shooter not named Steph Curry.
Booker also has an insane nose for the hoop, angles, there are certain players that simply have an innate ability to "find a way" to score. Booker has it in spades. He's a future scoring champ.
"Around the NBA, the possibility of Jackson trading Porzingis, a uniquely talented and wildly popular 7-foot-3 player, has been met with bewilderment by rival executives eager to make a deal with New York. Since Porzingis frustrated with the level of dysfunction within the franchise skipped his season-ending exit meeting, the Knicks havent made an attempt to reach or visit him in Europe this summer, league sources told The Vertical."
KP managed to improve despite being surrounded by the most toxic cast of players in the NBA and a coach who didn't know what to do with him. Again, very few things would rankle me at this point with this Godforsaken franchise, but trading KP would be the final straw.
but the notion that Lavine is a more athletic version of Booker, end of story, is bonkers. Booker's shooting skill is through the roof. Not fully refined yet, but his potential is to be the best shooter not named Steph Curry.
Lavine is more athletic than Booker. To date lavine has 2 seasons as a 38% 3 point shooter, Booker so far is 35% for his career. Booker is better at drawing fouls but Lavine has a higher assist % and lower TO% (albeit lower usage has some impact).
But they are both similar players are they not? Lavine has all the makings of being a top 5 NBA shooter. What's the tremendous difference between Booker and Lavine in that regard? And Im a massive fan of Booker too.
KP managed to improve despite being surrounded by the most toxic cast of players in the NBA and a coach who didn't know what to do with him. Again, very few things would rankle me at this point with this Godforsaken franchise, but trading KP would be the final straw.
IDK. I think KP took a major step back this year. I thought he was phenomenal and promising his rookie year, but last year was a disappointment in my eyes. He still has immense potential though.
over Booker or Lavine, but I don't think the Suns would part with Booker but I could see the Wolves parting with Lavine a lottery pick, a former top 5 pick than looked bad year 1, and a future pick over a Boston deal if next years Nets pick is not included.
KP managed to improve despite being surrounded by the most toxic cast of players in the NBA and a coach who didn't know what to do with him. Again, very few things would rankle me at this point with this Godforsaken franchise, but trading KP would be the final straw.
IDK. I think KP took a major step back this year. I thought he was phenomenal and promising his rookie year, but last year was a disappointment in my eyes. He still has immense potential though.
There's an argument to be made that he did not improve but stayed stagnant. "Major step back" is absurd.
KP managed to improve despite being surrounded by the most toxic cast of players in the NBA and a coach who didn't know what to do with him. Again, very few things would rankle me at this point with this Godforsaken franchise, but trading KP would be the final straw.
IDK. I think KP took a major step back this year. I thought he was phenomenal and promising his rookie year, but last year was a disappointment in my eyes. He still has immense potential though.
There's an argument to be made that he did not improve but stayed stagnant. "Major step back" is absurd.
Maybe not a major step back but I do think he didn't have the year we all expected him to have. He sort of hit that sophomore wall.
To be fair, it seems like the entire premise of Porzingis being traded is based on him blowing off his meeting. I don't think Phil has said anything that I've seen insinuating that he's looking to trade him. It seems like a ton of speculation.
I don't ever put anything past the Knicks when it comes to doing something stupid - but it seems like a lot of the hysteria might be unwarranted here.
I doubt the Knicks are trading him or even looking to.
To be fair, it seems like the entire premise of Porzingis being traded is based on him blowing off his meeting. I don't think Phil has said anything that I've seen insinuating that he's looking to trade him. It seems like a ton of speculation.
I do agree with this. Phil loves to use writers to send messages to players but he rarely gives anyone scoops on what his plans are.
To be fair, it seems like the entire premise of Porzingis being traded is based on him blowing off his meeting. I don't think Phil has said anything that I've seen insinuating that he's looking to trade him. It seems like a ton of speculation.
I don't ever put anything past the Knicks when it comes to doing something stupid - but it seems like a lot of the hysteria might be unwarranted here.
I doubt the Knicks are trading him or even looking to.
seems to me it is all centered on phil saying he is not untouchable...
this whole thing is probably based on a team that called and told woj knicks didnt hang up right away...
2. Despite # 1, their utter incompetence has to introduce an element of doubt.
Question: While Dolan has seemingly stayed true to his word and let Jackson pour gasoline on a franchise already engulfed in flames, if Phil agreed to a bad trade i.e. KP for < value, does Dolan have the right of refusal? Or could Phil single handedly destroy what's left of the franchise with no check and balance?
Janis Porzingis, Kristaps' brother, to ESPN: "Despite how the Knicks are treating their players, Kris wants to stay in New York." More: https://twitter.com/ESPNNewYork/status/877189954509524992
Janis Porzingis, Kristaps' brother, to ESPN: "Despite how the Knicks are treating their players, Kris wants to stay in New York." More: https://twitter.com/ESPNNewYork/status/877189954509524992
Always the best news. Trade talk makes everyone crazy. Stay the course.
There is zero chance that Minnesota would trade KAT, especially since he is probably valued higher than Porzingis. KP for Turner would be awful (that's all that trade would amount to because no chance George stays. The Phoenix package you could talk me into.
Janis Porzingis, Kristaps' brother, to ESPN: "Despite how the Knicks are treating their players, Kris wants to stay in New York." More: https://twitter.com/ESPNNewYork/status/877189954509524992
While it's good news, the qualifier sticks out like a sore thumb.
think the Suns pass on that. Booker is becoming one of the "name" young stars in the league (will be 21 in October), at 4 a guy like Jackson, Tatum or Fox would be there and Bender (was awful last year) was still a very high pick/lottery ticket.
well, no one is under the illusion that KP is happy at the moment
Draft Monk or another quality lead guard prospect; play half a season of decent ball trying to boost Melo's value. Gauge his willingness to leave or stay as a mentor. If he wants to leave, trade him for a good package and trade Lee as well.
guess is KP is willing to give the Knicks a chance to make things right/better. Clean up the locker room, clarify the plan and hope for a better season. If 2018 mimics 2017 I suspect he'll leak he's not willing to sign an extension with the Knicks or demands a trade.
a) this is "head fake" of trade (i.e. he has no intention of trading KP) in an attempt to push Melo closer to accepting a trade
b) this is "head fake" of trade (i.e. he has no intention of trading KP) in an attempt to push Dolan closer to firing him so he can collect $12mm a year for nothing
GM we've had since the turn of the century, yet many Knick fans bashed him. He executed a legit plan. Generally, the Knick fan is an insecure, arrogant & not very smart fan. And I don't mean to insult, I'm a Knick fan (not as much as I used to be).
As Phil Jackson's stated publicly, he's not ruling out dealing anybody including Kristaps Porzingis. And the Celtics, who own the third overall pick in the NBA draft, want him.
Now that trade season is in full swing ahead of the draft, the Knicks have been flooded with interest in their star, sources confirmed. And according to a source, the Celtics are among the teams interested.
I like Josh Jackson but no thanks.
Anyone who makes Carmelo Anthony a victim is someone I cannot
GM we've had since the turn of the century, yet many Knick fans bashed him. He executed a legit plan. Generally, the Knick fan is an insecure, arrogant & not very smart fan. And I don't mean to insult, I'm a Knick fan (not as much as I used to be).
Walsh executed a plan that a 10 year old could have executed. He did enough dumb shit in his time here and the only good thing he did was a no brainer for everyone to do.
Name one good thing he did that wasn't a no brainer
GM we've had since the turn of the century, yet many Knick fans bashed him. He executed a legit plan. Generally, the Knick fan is an insecure, arrogant & not very smart fan. And I don't mean to insult, I'm a Knick fan (not as much as I used to be).
his "involved" selling off useful players for pennies on the dollar LONG before he needed to. And then there's the whole Jordan Hill debacle. I could go on...
Jeff ZillgittVerified account @JeffZillgitt 54s54 seconds ago
One person with knowledge of Knicks/Porzingis trade possibility characterized situation as job preservation for front office.
GM we've had since the turn of the century, yet many Knick fans bashed him. He executed a legit plan. Generally, the Knick fan is an insecure, arrogant & not very smart fan. And I don't mean to insult, I'm a Knick fan (not as much as I used to be).
his "involved" selling off useful players for pennies on the dollar LONG before he needed to. And then there's the whole Jordan Hill debacle. I could go on...
Things like Jordan Hill happen all the time in the NBA. The cavs blundered the number 1 pick on Anthony Bennett. The Lakers acquired Kwame Brown. In the context of NBA franchise malpractice, swinging and missing on Jordan Hill isn't a fireable offense.
RE: RE: RE: Donnie Walsh was the most competent...
GM we've had since the turn of the century, yet many Knick fans bashed him. He executed a legit plan. Generally, the Knick fan is an insecure, arrogant & not very smart fan. And I don't mean to insult, I'm a Knick fan (not as much as I used to be).
his "involved" selling off useful players for pennies on the dollar LONG before he needed to. And then there's the whole Jordan Hill debacle. I could go on...
Things like Jordan Hill happen all the time in the NBA. The cavs blundered the number 1 pick on Anthony Bennett. The Lakers acquired Kwame Brown. In the context of NBA franchise malpractice, swinging and missing on Jordan Hill isn't a fireable offense.
This.
RE: RE: RE: Donnie Walsh was the most competent...
Things like Jordan Hill happen all the time in the NBA. The cavs blundered the number 1 pick on Anthony Bennett. The Lakers acquired Kwame Brown. In the context of NBA franchise malpractice, swinging and missing on Jordan Hill isn't a fireable offense.
I completely disagree. While there are a ton of draft busts, Jordan Hill was a TERRIBLE pick at the time that was compounded by the fact he played the same exact position as the Knicks' best player. He wasn't a terrible pick in hindsight... it was a terrible pick the second it was announced.
RE: RE: RE: Donnie Walsh was the most competent...
GM we've had since the turn of the century, yet many Knick fans bashed him. He executed a legit plan. Generally, the Knick fan is an insecure, arrogant & not very smart fan. And I don't mean to insult, I'm a Knick fan (not as much as I used to be).
his "involved" selling off useful players for pennies on the dollar LONG before he needed to. And then there's the whole Jordan Hill debacle. I could go on...
Things like Jordan Hill happen all the time in the NBA. The cavs blundered the number 1 pick on Anthony Bennett. The Lakers acquired Kwame Brown. In the context of NBA franchise malpractice, swinging and missing on Jordan Hill isn't a fireable offense.
um...like I said, I could go on.
I know some other people and draftniks liked Hill,
Jeff ZillgittVerified account @JeffZillgitt 54s54 seconds ago
One person with knowledge of Knicks/Porzingis trade possibility characterized situation as job preservation for front office.
What the hell does that even mean? Wouldn't it be the opposite? Wouldn't trading away your best player HURT your cause more than help it?
GM we've had since the turn of the century, yet many Knick fans bashed him. He executed a legit plan. Generally, the Knick fan is an insecure, arrogant & not very smart fan. And I don't mean to insult, I'm a Knick fan (not as much as I used to be).
his "involved" selling off useful players for pennies on the dollar LONG before he needed to. And then there's the whole Jordan Hill debacle. I could go on...
Things like Jordan Hill happen all the time in the NBA. The cavs blundered the number 1 pick on Anthony Bennett. The Lakers acquired Kwame Brown. In the context of NBA franchise malpractice, swinging and missing on Jordan Hill isn't a fireable offense.
um...like I said, I could go on.
I get it, but I could expand on my point too. The immortal pat riley drafted Justise Winslow 10th overall. You could be a better shooter from your desk chair right now.
Even Walsh admitted that he was completely taken off-guard when the
and Bargnani and folks telling me to chill. Good times.
I was told "draft picks don't matter" or some bs like that when I killed the bargs trade before it was even final. Not patting myself on the back...the whole world knew that was a dumb move.
RE: Even Walsh admitted that he was completely taken off-guard when the
"Around the NBA, the possibility of Jackson trading Porzingis, a uniquely talented and wildly popular 7-foot-3 player, has been met with bewilderment by rival executives eager to make a deal with New York. Since Porzingis frustrated with the level of dysfunction within the franchise skipped his season-ending exit meeting, the Knicks havent made an attempt to reach or visit him in Europe this summer, league sources told The Vertical."
So the Knicks have been the unprofessional ones now, right? Cutting off communications?
The Knicks are utterly failing in talent management, and some people want to turn it on the players. Ridiculous.
I think most of us here were horrified by the Bargnani trade
but what is your point? If you're saying everyone makes lousy picks, fine. But nobody is arguing otherwise. If you're defending Walsh's overall tenure...well that's just dumb. We have a brand new stupid old fuck in charge making mistakes to complain about.
RE: RE: Even Walsh admitted that he was completely taken off-guard when the
"Around the NBA, the possibility of Jackson trading Porzingis, a uniquely talented and wildly popular 7-foot-3 player, has been met with bewilderment by rival executives eager to make a deal with New York. Since Porzingis frustrated with the level of dysfunction within the franchise skipped his season-ending exit meeting, the Knicks havent made an attempt to reach or visit him in Europe this summer, league sources told The Vertical."
So the Knicks have been the unprofessional ones now, right? Cutting off communications?
The Knicks are utterly failing in talent management, and some people want to turn it on the players. Ridiculous.
I think it's a two-way street, Deej. You think that KP is actively looking to talk to anyone in the Knicks FO? Seems like once the season ended, both parties wanted nothing to do with each other.
As I recall, there was just one person defending it very vocally. Can't remember who it was.
I think that was NYGiants16
you sure about that? maybe i wasnt a whiny bitch about it but i didnt defend it...
i think what i said was i like the fit and i hope the 1st round pick doesnt bite us in the ass
IDK, but I seem to recall you saying that you thought that Bargs could turn it around in New York and that the first rounder would be meaningless then.
"Around the NBA, the possibility of Jackson trading Porzingis, a uniquely talented and wildly popular 7-foot-3 player, has been met with bewilderment by rival executives eager to make a deal with New York. Since Porzingis frustrated with the level of dysfunction within the franchise skipped his season-ending exit meeting, the Knicks havent made an attempt to reach or visit him in Europe this summer, league sources told The Vertical."
So the Knicks have been the unprofessional ones now, right? Cutting off communications?
The Knicks are utterly failing in talent management, and some people want to turn it on the players. Ridiculous.
I think it's a two-way street, Deej. You think that KP is actively looking to talk to anyone in the Knicks FO? Seems like once the season ended, both parties wanted nothing to do with each other.
Whatever. Your point about KP being unprofessional because he cut off communications has been totally undermined and you cant let it go.
The Knicks need to manage their relationship with KP, not the other way around. The Knicks are the ones running a foul organization, while KP works his ass off. If you want to put a pox on both houses, so be it. It's crazy IMO.
As I recall, there was just one person defending it very vocally. Can't remember who it was.
I think that was NYGiants16
you sure about that? maybe i wasnt a whiny bitch about it but i didnt defend it...
i think what i said was i like the fit and i hope the 1st round pick doesnt bite us in the ass
IDK, but I seem to recall you saying that you thought that Bargs could turn it around in New York and that the first rounder would be meaningless then.
i said i hoped bargs would turn it around and that the knicks would continue to improve on their 54 win season and i hoped the 1st round pick did not turn into a lotto pick...
how is that saying omg great trade..
just because i dont whine and cry after every move thinking the sky is falling doesnt mean i am defending it...
As I recall, there was just one person defending it very vocally. Can't remember who it was.
I think that was NYGiants16
you sure about that? maybe i wasnt a whiny bitch about it but i didnt defend it...
i think what i said was i like the fit and i hope the 1st round pick doesnt bite us in the ass
IDK, but I seem to recall you saying that you thought that Bargs could turn it around in New York and that the first rounder would be meaningless then.
i said i hoped bargs would turn it around and that the knicks would continue to improve on their 54 win season and i hoped the 1st round pick did not turn into a lotto pick...
how is that saying omg great trade..
just because i dont whine and cry after every move thinking the sky is falling doesnt mean i am defending it...
I was one who thought
nygiants16 : 12/15/2014 10:01 am : link
the pick was meaningless and that Bargs could turn it around in New York being the 2nd fiddle behind Melo an dnot having the pressure on him...
that finally forces fans to stay away. Attendance has been Dolan-proof for years. Maybe not any more...
I think the ones who buy tickets are the same ones who agree that you should be doing whatever you can to get as good as you can, as quickly as you can. I.e. the ones who agree with the Dolan model.
Shit, Im still having arguments here with people who defend the Rose trade.
have twice rooted for an opponent against my teams. A returning Patrick, a returning Piazza and now I shall root for KP to embarrass the Knicks. 45 and 12, do it.
ehat id the big deal? i even said i HOPED the pick was meaningles, exactly what i just said..
Not a big deal. I went looking for the thread but couldn't find it.
ill tell you exactly what i said, i thought bargs could turn it around in new york with melo, chandler and amare he didnt have any of the spotlight or pressure...
i thought he would be a good fit, i thiught the first round pick was a good gamvle coming off a 54 win season and a team built to win now so i thought it wouldnt hurt them...
in the end i was wrong, 1 thing about me i never kill a move untili see how it turns out,
seeing how things turned out what a shitty fucking move
Would you do KP and throw in Lance Thomas as a salary dump
For Celtics number 3
Jaylen Brown
Brooklyns number one 2018
No. Dumping Lance Thomas contract does nothing for the Knicks. He has 3 years 20 million left. What are they doing with that cap room minus KP and Melo? That's close to zero added value to the trade.
I wouldn't be looking to trade him, but he's not a LeBron level player where you don't even listen to offers.
If someone blows me away, I would trade him
It's not that he's untouchable. It's that a lot of these people HATE Phil Jackson with every fiber of their being. The original story says Phil hasn't called anyone, but he's willing to listen if the offer is big enough. The people who HATE Phil didn't read that part of the story.
Why are people so attached to him? Seriously, what have I missed here?
I like his potential, like him as a player, but some of you are seriously acting like he's 1 level below LeBron. He's not.
If the celtics want him, then they better come up with a huge package, and I'm sure the knicks are taking that attitude as well.
Dan saying if the knicks trade him he hopes he goes for 45 and 12 is just absurd. What has he done for the Knicks that people are so attached to him like that?
"Phil Jackson is in love with Jayson Tatum. He believes he's the best player in the Draft."
That feels so beyond unlikely i don't know where to start.
It's weird. Since the beginning of draft season, we've also heard that Phil would take Josh Jackson over both Fultz and Ball...and then we heard that Phil really loves Fultz as well.
you go and enjoy Tatum, Jaylen Brown and a future pick and I'll enjoy the rare talent that seemingly has a feeding frenzy from other teams trying to acquire. Phil Jackson gets 0.0 benefit of the doubt. None.
like Josh Jackson but is there a single person on here who swaps KP for Josh Jackson and the Lakers pick? I mean how much more are you expecting? The whole point is you aren't going to get "Lebron prices" and yet Porzingis would almost certainly be the first pick in this draft. Phil Jackson is 71 years old, he's making a deal that he doesn't even "profit" from? He'll swap KP, deal Melo and add Redick, Rivers and sign PJ Tucker. Book it.
you go and enjoy Tatum, Jaylen Brown and a future pick and I'll enjoy the rare talent that seemingly has a feeding frenzy from other teams trying to acquire. Phil Jackson gets 0.0 benefit of the doubt. None.
You've already decided who they would pick, what they would get, and are saying just absolutely ridiculous things like you already hope he goes for 45 and 12 if he comes back here.
Settle down. He's not getting traded for a junk package like you're expecting. The way you're acting, you would think it's a lock they're going to trade him at all costs.
like Josh Jackson but is there a single person on here who swaps KP for Josh Jackson and the Lakers pick? I mean how much more are you expecting? The whole point is you aren't going to get "Lebron prices" and yet Porzingis would almost certainly be the first pick in this draft. Phil Jackson is 71 years old, he's making a deal that he doesn't even "profit" from? He'll swap KP, deal Melo and add Redick, Rivers and sign PJ Tucker. Book it.
Bucher says the Pacers called the Warriors about PG13. On it's face it's "oh c'mon" but since they would have to include Green or Klay it's not exactly a great move.
Why are people so attached to him? Seriously, what have I missed here?
I like his potential, like him as a player, but some of you are seriously acting like he's 1 level below LeBron. He's not.
If the celtics want him, then they better come up with a huge package, and I'm sure the knicks are taking that attitude as well.
Dan saying if the knicks trade him he hopes he goes for 45 and 12 is just absurd. What has he done for the Knicks that people are so attached to him like that?
Cowherd echoed these sentiments exactly
Would people really turn this down + a player for Porzingis?
He would do Josh Jackson, Jae Crowder, Jaylen Brown and a first rounder next year for KP because you would get three starters, plus Markanen, who Cowherd thinks is basically like 75%/80% Porzingis.
watching knicks fans freak out, now mannix and lowe are basically saying the kni ks are not looking to trade kp and that the aaking price just to talk is insane...
basically this is nothing but we are going to put it out there that the knicks are trading kp and ph look perfrct timing the knicks worked out markannen
RE: Would people really turn this down + a player for Porzingis?
He would do Josh Jackson, Jae Crowder, Jaylen Brown and a first rounder next year for KP because you would get three starters, plus Markanen, who Cowherd thinks is basically like 75%/80% Porzingis.
but his hysteria when it comes to this is just ridiculous. He already decided exactly what package the knicks would get in return and already decided it's going to happen.
He's not getting traded unless the knicks get a kings ransom. Show me ONE thing that Phil Jackson has ever done that would tell you he's going to trade KP for a mediocre package?
Saying he deserves zero benefit of the doubt is just absurd.
It's times like this where I actually miss pre-Twitter sports reporting.
the problem is not twitter, it is that every writer apins it to help their agenda, rather than just reporting facts, they writw it in a way they know they are going to get a ton of clicks
but his hysteria when it comes to this is just ridiculous. He already decided exactly what package the knicks would get in return and already decided it's going to happen.
He's not getting traded unless the knicks get a kings ransom. Show me ONE thing that Phil Jackson has ever done that would tell you he's going to trade KP for a mediocre package?
Saying he deserves zero benefit of the doubt is just absurd.
he's been awful as an executive. Anyone that has confidence in his ability to build a roster at this point is delusional or just not paying attention.
but his hysteria when it comes to this is just ridiculous. He already decided exactly what package the knicks would get in return and already decided it's going to happen.
He's not getting traded unless the knicks get a kings ransom. Show me ONE thing that Phil Jackson has ever done that would tell you he's going to trade KP for a mediocre package?
Saying he deserves zero benefit of the doubt is just absurd.
It's times like this where I actually miss pre-Twitter sports reporting.
the problem is not twitter, it is that every writer apins it to help their agenda, rather than just reporting facts, they writw it in a way they know they are going to get a ton of clicks
Well, Twitter is the mechanism they use to spread mis-information faster than ever before so it sort of is the problem.
It has its uses and benefits, it's just funny how quickly a story can spiral out of control based on barely any factual information whatsoever.
but his hysteria when it comes to this is just ridiculous. He already decided exactly what package the knicks would get in return and already decided it's going to happen.
He's not getting traded unless the knicks get a kings ransom. Show me ONE thing that Phil Jackson has ever done that would tell you he's going to trade KP for a mediocre package?
Saying he deserves zero benefit of the doubt is just absurd.
I do not trust Phil Jackson.
1. Obsessed with Rambis being here despite it being clear the players don't like him, no evidence he is good at his job. Hornacek asks for a defensive specialist, they try and hire Longabardi (Hornaceks guy), they are unable to... and decide they don't need one.. only to in-season decide Kurt Rambis is the best choice.
2. Yet to see any indication he is willing to actually rebuild. Not his "fault" but so far we have heard interest in PJ Tucker, JJ Redick etc OLD players that will be expensive aka "no rebuild"
3. Doesn't seem to know what he wants to do. Triangle (weird feud with Derek Fisher over it), then modified triangle with a non-triangle coach, now "all-in" triangle
4. Feuds with Melo and KP
5. Trashes the style of play of the most successful teams in the NBA (suggesting he's over the hill)
6. Inarguably one of the greatest coaches in the history of professional sports BUT zero resume for building a roster
7. Noah's contract....
8. Reportedly takes Grant against the wishes of his scouts and then gives up on him after 1 season (I never cared for Grant and I'm not suggesting he's anything special but it does suggest his "plan" is all over the place)
9. Doesn't suspend Derrick Rose (Circus)
10. Reportedly has a deal for Rubio but insists on more for Rose (Admittedly depends on who you believe)
11. Has a personal mouthpiece who "speaks for him"
12. His rings were supposed to be a gamechanger, couldn't even secure a meeting with Durant and told LMA he wanted him to play out of position at C.
Bottom line, I don't trust him and he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt from me like Pat Riley etc would
It's times like this where I actually miss pre-Twitter sports reporting.
Twitter is at it's worst when it comes to injuries. A dude could down in training camp & people freak out, though we have no idea if it's major or not. Fifteen years we wouldn't even have known unless it was something big.
but please point to one thing that would lead you to believe he will trade KP for anything but a kings ransom. Nothing in there should make you believe that.
but please point to one thing that would lead you to believe he will trade KP for anything but a kings ransom. Nothing in there should make you believe that.
I think Dan's point is that he's been generally incompetent, so he is unreliable. Plus he may view KP as undermining him right now (speculation).
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The Clippers, Rockets, Wizards and, yes, Cavs are among the teams that have also talked Paul George trades with Indiana, league sources say
I would trade the #2 overall, Randall and a future pick for Paul.
I also don't really get the George LA thing. How is George, Ball and a bunch of unproven young guys that haven't flashed very much potential at all going to compete in the west? They're a 7-8 seed at best, maybe 5-6 if Ball turns into a star. There are a lot of other teams that would give him a better shot at winning if that's what he wants.
As for LA they would probably combine the George move with another move. Whether its another FA signing or trading assets for another star type. None of their kids look like stars, but with Russell, Randle, Ingram, Ball, clarkson, nance, zubac they could get in the convo for some good players.
Im not saying it will work, but i can see the appeal for George when you combine the assets on the team with LA.
i like both, but i like monk and smith better...
if monk and smith are gpne and they take mitchell or frank i am good with it...
now if they take kennard or jackson i am on the go fuck yourself phil bandwagon
Exactly. Don't make the same mistake the Knicks made - trading half their team for Melo when he was coming to NY anyway. Indy is in a bind because everyone knows PG wants to go to LA. Maybe the Cavs make the move and hope to convince him and LeBron to stay, but no one else is giving up assets for one year of George.
1 Fullz
2 Ball
3 Fox
4 Jackson
5 Tatum
6 Isaac
7 Monk
8 Mitchell
9 Ntilikina
10 DSJ
Obviously, the top few aren't happening.
Others: I'd be disappointed with Kennard, irate if Justin Jackson or any body else.
kennard has supposedly killed hos workouts though
I just don't trust that he won't sign with the team that will hold his bird rights. The 28th pick, Clarkson, and Deng for George. Although I'm sure they,won't trade him to LA unless they get either Ingram or the number 2 pick
I'm with you here. Kennard is better at creating his own shot than Korver or JJ Redick for that matter were/are at his age. He reminds me more of Gordon Hayward but at the 2 guard. He's not nearly as athletic but is more so than the prototypical white guy 3 point specialist he gets compared to often. Taking Monk at 8 and trading for a second first rounder to get Kennard would've been my dream scenario but with the way Kennard is climbing up boards, that's a pipe dream.
To your other point on Frank vs Mitchell, the floor is clearly much lower for Frank but having watched him play a few full games, you can see the ceiling is there. Part of the reason he doesn't have a quick first step can be attributed to his lower body strength. His legs are like toothpicks today so if he builds some muscle down there, I could see the narrative on his athleticism and first step changing. Will he get there? Who knows, but it certainly will take time. Personally I'd take Mitchell over Frank though.
Anyone else think all the Frank love is a bit too calculated for Phil's Knicks? Since Phil came here, they've kept everything very close to the vest. Nobody mentioned any interest in KP until DraftExpress the day of the draft but before that we heard repeatedly that they liked Winslow, WCS, some said Mudiay, then Lyles and Kaminsky (and one reporter even said that they loved Hezonja and had video conferenced with him the night before the draft). The Frank noise has been loud since April. That's old Jerry Reese behavior, not Phil Jackson. The tweet below was just a few hours before they took KP.
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Sources: Knicks currently leaning toward Mudiay if they stay at No. 4, Kaminsky if they move down
3. Scorer- Monk, #4 DSJ, #5 Mitchell (Tatum was #2 but I suspect he's a pipedream)
Shooting
Kennard #1, Monk 3, Justin Jackson 4
Passing DSJ is 4, Monk 5
Ball handling
DSJ is 3, Fox 4
Defense
Frenchy is #1, Isaac #2
For example, much as I can't stand Trippy Allen, if you watch a lot of Duke games the gulf in athleticism between him and Kennard is pretty stark.
1. Lonzo
2. Jackson
followed by Tatum/Fox/Isaac in some order
1. Lonzo
2. Jackson
followed by Tatum/Fox/Isaac in some order
No Fultz?
For example, much as I can't stand Trippy Allen, if you watch a lot of Duke games the gulf in athleticism between him and Kennard is pretty stark.
Allen is pretty explosive in general, just not skilled.
Bostons not gonna trade for Melo anyways.
Especially if they use all those assets to trade for another big name.
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Griffin to Boston really would be terrible for us.
Bostons not gonna trade for Melo anyways.
The Clips probably won't either, which I think was his point.
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Griffin to Boston really would be terrible for us.
Bostons not gonna trade for Melo anyways.
Boston reportedly is considering offering him a max deal (Griffin).
At this point, I wish we could ditch Phil instead of Melo.
Keeping him doesn't make sense under any circumstance. The knicks need to completely move on
I think the Wizards would be a great fit, but it would take some creative accounting to get him under the Wiz's cap. What contracts would NYK be willing to take back? Mahinmi? Yuck.
No.
Not surprising, given that Gortat has some value. No one will touch Mahinmi with that contract.
Keeping him doesn't make sense under any circumstance. The knicks need to completely move on
I dont agree, so Im curious as to why you think this. I think if Melo comes back and is told "you do X and Y and Z or you dont play" then he'll do it. Or he wont play. I still think that physically KP isnt ready to be the #1 option. I think there is fair room for debate whether you just throw the babe to the wolves or you shelter him. I dont think there is a clearly right answer.
Fundamentally, I think Melo is a good guy/teammate. I think he's an inconsistent and unwilling defender, and needs to move the ball more. But for the first time in his career you can fairly say "play my way or dont play at all". I'd rather trade him for assets but it's not an imperative. And if we keep him I believe he will either shape up or opt out after the season.
I dont think you're really stunned. I think you're just horrified.
If Rose is back then this will be the first year that I do not watch the Knicks. I usually watch every game and go to a couple a year but that will push me to taking a year off.
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has to be off the team at all costs. If it's a buyout thats fine too.
Keeping him doesn't make sense under any circumstance. The knicks need to completely move on
I dont agree, so Im curious as to why you think this. I think if Melo comes back and is told "you do X and Y and Z or you dont play" then he'll do it. Or he wont play. I still think that physically KP isnt ready to be the #1 option. I think there is fair room for debate whether you just throw the babe to the wolves or you shelter him. I dont think there is a clearly right answer.
Fundamentally, I think Melo is a good guy/teammate. I think he's an inconsistent and unwilling defender, and needs to move the ball more. But for the first time in his career you can fairly say "play my way or dont play at all". I'd rather trade him for assets but it's not an imperative. And if we keep him I believe he will either shape up or opt out after the season.
Not speaking for Mook here, but from my angle is that keeping Melo around does absolutely nothing to help this team long term. It would creat a circus all season and stunt the growth of young players that would benefit from the playing time. And Melo would probably also mean that this team wins a few more games than they would without him. They would still not make the playoffs and would cost themselves draft position, and for what?
Dan, any other Knicks rumblings you've heard recently?
i wonder who they take if isaac is gone..rumors are the suns want to take him at 4 but i am sure they would take jackson over him if jackson drops..
either way that is good news for Knicks
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but rumor has it the Wolves will take Isaac with their pick if he's still on the board.
Dan, any other Knicks rumblings you've heard recently?
I haven't really reached out to the guy I know in a few days. I try not to bother him too much but last we spoke he basically had the same info we are hearing. That Phil likes Monk and Frenchy a whole lot, he said Gaines is very high on DSJ (he didn't say if that meant Phil wasn't etc) and that the Knicks were still snooping around for an additional first but that the prices for extra picks were "extreme" and doubted it would happen. He said the Knicks worked out an "unusual" amount of 2nd rounders (more than past years, which may be due to 2 picks, or (he suggested) guys they may be looking to invite to camp and/or add an additional 2nd (he said the prices for 2nds are also very, very high right now).
Makes a lot of sense. If Isaac is gone which looks likely at the moment, I think Minnesota would take Monk or DSJ, not Markannen as Ford and others have in their mocks. They were dead last in a bunch of outside shooting metrics and I believe dead last or close to dead last in bench scoring. Dunn was terrible and given that he wasn't a euro or came out after 1 year, it's hard to think they have much confidence in his ability to improve fast enough for them to contend for a playoff spot especially if Rubio is dealt.
Wally wants to keep his cushy job at MSG.
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Frank Ntilikina's coach at Strasbourg, Vincent Collet, will coach with the Mavs Orlando Summer League team - Dallas all in on Ntilikina
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Frank Ntilikina's coach at Strasbourg, Vincent Collet, will coach with the Mavs Orlando Summer League team - Dallas all in on Ntilikina
I wonder what this means. If they weren't going to get him it would be a bizarre move and it's not like Frank can choose where he plays. Maybe they have a deal worked out with Minnesota to jump us?
random 3-way deal off the top of my head:
Knicks get: Oubre, Teletovic, Markieff Morris + somebody's protected first rounder
Bucks get: Gortat
Wizards get: Melo
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Frank Ntilikina's coach at Strasbourg, Vincent Collet, will coach with the Mavs Orlando Summer League team - Dallas all in on Ntilikina
wonder if they have a deal in place perhaps with minny to move up..
minny only does it if isaac is gone..
take fwiw a guy on realgm claims to have a source with the kings says they want smith who killed their workout, if that is true does fox drop?
Knicks have strong interest in Ntilikina too. Mavs have done a better job recruiting and building relationships. He wants to be in Dallas
since when do you have to "recruit" a draft pick? What the fuck?
Quote:
Chad FordVerified account @chadfordinsider
Knicks have strong interest in Ntilikina too. Mavs have done a better job recruiting and building relationships. He wants to be in Dallas
since when do you have to "recruit" a draft pick? What the fuck?
Very bizarre unless there's a possibility he sticks around in Europe for a year or two like Rubio did but I haven't heard that mentioned once.
Quote:
Chad FordVerified account @chadfordinsider
Knicks have strong interest in Ntilikina too. Mavs have done a better job recruiting and building relationships. He wants to be in Dallas
since when do you have to "recruit" a draft pick? What the fuck?
That is rather stupid.
Quote:
Chad FordVerified account @chadfordinsider
Knicks have strong interest in Ntilikina too. Mavs have done a better job recruiting and building relationships. He wants to be in Dallas
since when do you have to "recruit" a draft pick? What the fuck?
Probably mean the Mavs had people over there often. Didn't the Knicks have their international scouts hang around KP before the draft?
Also worth noting: Best Dallas pick by far in a decade is Crowder. They havent drafted this high in a while, and often trade their #1, but they've squeeze very, very little out of the draft over the last decade (see link, sort for Mavs).
Link - ( New Window )
I think Thibs offers him big money. 4 years between 90-100 mill. Would the Warriors really match that ?
I think Thibs offers him big money. 4 years between 90-100 mill. Would the Warriors really match that ?
That would could be worse than the contracts given out last offseason. Jesus what a mistake
I really like Hart in the second round. He's going to be a good rotation player for somebody.
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Canyon Barry works out for the Warriors on Tuesday. He previously worked out for the Knicks, Spurs, Kings, Nuggets.
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Hearing that Ntilikina is passing Monk on many draft boards. Mavs likely to grab him at 9 if the Knicks don't take him first...
where do i sign?
"Austin Rivers and, wait dont hang up... fuck."
maybe sign and trade with griffin?
where do i sign?
lol @ winslow. That guy's shot reminds me of Chris Duhon.
I don't see how we could get all that given the NTC, given the slim amount of teams interested in him and that he'd be interested in.
If we got one those young assets, I'd be psyched.
He also mentioned the thing about Frenchy's coach overseas being brought on board by the Mavs for Summer League, so maybe they know something we don't about him dropping past NY (or the Mavs moving up).
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says heat interested in melo, could dangle tyler johnson, winslow and 14..
where do i sign?
lol @ winslow. That guy's shot reminds me of Chris Duhon.
A jumpshot that evokes a drunken stupor?
Make the Heat keep Winslow and you've got yourselves a deal!
I hope I'm wrong but there seems to be zero momentum towards a Carmelo trade.
its my fault got it told me second hand
Unless it's truly all smoke they seemingly love him so I guess we have to hope for the best. A bit of a red flag he wasn't even in there late for his defense so while he may end up a good defender his coach didn't think he was "so good" right now he had to be in there. The Knicks are still running some workouts (which may mean nothing, or maybe they are considering trading back or they aren't sold on who they want?).
Sounds like he was born to be a Knick!
that would be sort of ironic if Melo ends up in Miami after all of his buddies are gone. But yeah, a patient approach like that is what Phil needs to do. There are a ton of big names that might switch teams this summer (Paul George, Blake, LMA, Love)...there may be opportunities to insert Melo into 3 and 4 team deals involving these guys. He doesn't need to jump on whatever crap trade is available on draft night.
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The Cavaliers, per league sources, have been working today on assembling multi-team trade scenarios to try to acquire Chicago's Jimmy Butler
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The Cavaliers, per league sources, have been working today on assembling multi-team trade scenarios to try to acquire Chicago's Jimmy Butler
Hard to imagine Kyrie not being involved. And if it's the cavs that are the ones working on this I'm not sure how much to believe if Irving isn't involved.
Remember when I suggested this trade and you said the Heat would never consider it?
Lulz.
@tee149
@JSports_ent any truth to the Paul gasol for Noah rumor that @ThomasCDee is pushing?
If Butler put up that season last year on a better team he'd be talked about more as just outside the top 5 or so players. Though he's less naturally talented, so I feel like he could come back to the pack a little.
Fucking coin flip. Fucking win against Philly in game 82.
Fultz, Ball, Tatum, Jackson, Fox, Isaac and Frank in the top seven would leave us a nice choice between Monk and Smith.
Cavs would never trade Kyrie if still trying to compete -
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straight up for Melo. Big time fan.
Remember when I suggested this trade and you said the Heat would never consider it?
Lulz.
Very clearly and vividly. 100% the reason I would do it. I don't see it happening.
Interesting ?
Interesting ?
I wish I could remember which TV reporter/analyst said Griffin was going to be the "fall guy" despite LeBron's fingerprints being on most (if not all) of the team's moves.
If that's true, then I'm out the door.
Regarding Frenchy, worth recalling that Porzingis didn't have any kind of standout numbers in Spain. Better league, yes, but he had no resume either.
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Chauncey Billups up next
Interesting ?
I wish I could remember which TV reporter/analyst said Griffin was going to be the "fall guy" despite LeBron's fingerprints being on most (if not all) of the team's moves.
The sentiment is true, but Griffin wasnt fired. His contract and I think this was just a money issue -- he wanted more than the team would give.
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That's gotta bring up a few red flags
If that's true, then I'm out the door.
Regarding Frenchy, worth recalling that Porzingis didn't have any kind of standout numbers in Spain. Better league, yes, but he had no resume either.
willy was a backup his last year playimg 5 minutes a game
the craziest part was he was workijg the phones up until 2 hours ago trying to get a deal for butler then all of a sudden it was ok you are leaving...
rumors are it was a difference in direction, maybe lebron convinced gilbert to go after melo instead?
just weird they were trying so hard for george or butler then all of sudden nope i am leaving..
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Per ESPN article mentioned as group heading cavs front office with Gilbert leaving. Must be crazy there right now
the craziest part was he was workijg the phones up until 2 hours ago trying to get a deal for butler then all of a sudden it was ok you are leaving...
rumors are it was a difference in direction, maybe lebron convinced gilbert to go after melo instead?
just weird they were trying so hard for george or butler then all of sudden nope i am leaving..
We do know Lebron loves himself some best friends.
As deej said I think a money and vision thing
As deej said I think a money and vision thing
it is just so weird, this is something the knicks would do
As deej said I think a money and vision thing
Even though you are a Nets fan, do us all a solid and try and talk him into Melo for Love....
He has also made comments about thinking that the best situation for Melo would be with another star, a guy that he respects and can be the leader so Carmelo doesn't have to be that guy. Sounds a lot like Lebron.
if it does happen have to semd love to a 3rd team
sam amick made a good point though, if lebron is leaving shouldnt you try to stay compwtitive but not kill your future?
sam amick made a good point though, if lebron is leaving shouldnt you try to stay compwtitive but not kill your future?
Mm ales me think that the disagreement was around trading Kyrie for a potential one year George rental. It's not like they have picks to deal for a long time so it has to be one side wanting to mortgage the young guy under contract for being left with nothing in the future I would think.
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Sounds like Lakers are dangling DAngelo Russell in effort to get another Top 12 pick. Luke Kennard & Zach Collins appear to be targets
Russell+ for #8?
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Sounds like Lakers are dangling DAngelo Russell in effort to get another Top 12 pick. Luke Kennard & Zach Collins appear to be targets
Russell+ for #8?
No. only way I consider 8 is with Ingram involved. I like randle but not sure if I'd even do randle + dlo for 8.
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Sounds like Lakers are dangling DAngelo Russell in effort to get another Top 12 pick. Luke Kennard & Zach Collins appear to be targets
Russell+ for #8?
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For now, LA resisting salary dumps on Mozgov or Deng needed to clear future space. Teams trying to snag pick/young player to absorb deals.
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that Chauncey was a big proponent of trading Love for Melo while dishing those hot takes on ESPN. Not saying GM Chauncey would do that, but it's one reason to root for him to get the job.
He has also made comments about thinking that the best situation for Melo would be with another star, a guy that he respects and can be the leader so Carmelo doesn't have to be that guy. Sounds a lot like Lebron.
That's how I've always felt about Melo. He shouldnt be your best player/leader.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account
@WojVerticalNBA
For now, LA resisting salary dumps on Mozgov or Deng needed to clear future space. Teams trying to snag pick/young player to absorb deals.
Unlike the Knicks, the Lakers get that you dont burn assets to make cap space unless and until you have a deal lined up to get a star with the new $$.
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Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account
@WojVerticalNBA
For now, LA resisting salary dumps on Mozgov or Deng needed to clear future space. Teams trying to snag pick/young player to absorb deals.
Unlike the Knicks, the Lakers get that you dont burn assets to make cap space unless and until you have a deal lined up to get a star with the new $$.
Woj is being kind here though. Those contracts are burdens that nobody wants.
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In comment 13504492 Anakim said:
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Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account
@WojVerticalNBA
For now, LA resisting salary dumps on Mozgov or Deng needed to clear future space. Teams trying to snag pick/young player to absorb deals.
Unlike the Knicks, the Lakers get that you dont burn assets to make cap space unless and until you have a deal lined up to get a star with the new $$.
Woj is being kind here though. Those contracts are burdens that nobody wants.
No, I think he tweet admits that, with the last clause about teams wanting pick/young player to "absorb" deals.
My point is that the Lakers seem smart about this. Yes, maybe give an asset to move Mozgov, but hold off on it. It may never be necessary b/c they may never need the cap space. Knicks for years have been trading assets in advance of having deals lined up to fill the cap space. E.g. Summer of LeBron, TC trade. So we burn an asset, and then miss our Plan As and use the space on plan Bs, Cs, and Ds (Amare instead of LeBron, Rolo instead of Deandre or Aldridge).
of course he does, woj is good at breaking news but his opinion and wrotimg is biased...
he hates the knicks and thats been proven...
of course the knicks give him.plenty of ammo
No more so then the direction I expect them to take. Jeff Teague, George Hill etc. At least with Paul you could "dream" on a Paul/Melo/KP/Willy + say Monk core doing something. I'm pro total rebuild. I just expect a lesser version of chasing Chris Paul.
They've reportedly been told PG13 is coming next year, and to hold onto assets now rather than trade for him.
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Donovan Mitchell will now work out for the #knicks tomorrow, per source.
"No matter who you are, no matter who has checked in or who potentially will check in, theyre going to be told that Paul George is gonna play the season out and then hes gonna go to the Lakers, that thats his plan.
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Donovan Mitchell will now work out for the #knicks tomorrow, per source.
wonder why it got pushed back anpther day
Chad Ford trying to put 2 + 2 together after reading a Ramona Shelburne report does not constitute a rumor, much less news. C'mon, guys.
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@LakerFilmRoom
Chad Ford trying to put 2 + 2 together after reading a Ramona Shelburne report does not constitute a rumor, much less news. C'mon, guys.
chad ford is garbage i dont know why anyone believes anything he says..
he has been caugh editing his mocj drafts durong the draft to make it look like he got more than wrong right
1 Lonzo Ball Jason Kidd
2 Markelle Fullz Andrew Wiggins
3 Jayson Tatum Carmelo Anthony
4 Dearron Fox John Wall
5 Josh Jackson Jimmy Butler
6 Jonathan Isaac Brandon Ingram
7 Malik Monk Lou Williams
8 Donovan Mitchell Avery Bradley
9 Dennis Smith Jr. Baron Davis
10 Lauri Markannen Ryan Anderson
11 Frank Mason Kyle Lowry
12 Frank Ntilikina Khris Middleton
13 TJ Leaf Taj Gibson
14 Zach Collins Greg Monroe
15 Justin Patton Clint Capela
16 Jarret Allen Marcus Camby
17 Luke Kennard Joe Ingles
18 Derrick White Grevis Vasquez
19 Jonah Bolden Marquess Chris
20 Semi Ojeleye Jae Crowder
21 Justin Jackson Tayshaun Prince
22 Jordan Bell Amir Johnson
23 DJ Wilson Sam Dekker
24 Cam Oliver Kenneth Faried
25 Bam Adebayo Derrick Favors
26 OG Anunoby MKG
27 Josh Hart Courtney Lee
28 John Collins Brice Johnson
29 Kyle Kuzma Jared Dudley
30 Frank Jackson Monte Ellis
31 Sindarious Thornwell Wesley Matthews
32 Dillon Brooks Aaron Afflalo
33 Damyean Dotson Michael Finley
34 Ike Aninqbogu Bismack Biyumbo
35 Jonathan Motley Dewayne Dedmon
36 Caleb Swanigan Kyle O'Quinn
37 Tony Bradley John Henson
38 Tyler Lydon Channing Frye
39 Terrance Ferguson Corey Brewer
40 Juwun Evans Patty Mills
Pep22 : 10:18 am : link : reply
Mason far more than most.
Same can be said for Leaf White Bolden Ojeleye Oliver
Wow this is surprising. I can't see how it's possible, but I'd love to see that the Spurs go all out and try to get CP3 and Paul George. That team could seriously compete with GSW. But this tells me the Spurs have something cooking.
i wouldnt send it for george, i would for butler
i still dont get why he is so hellbent on getting to lakers, are they really going to be any good in the near future?
But Bledsoe/Booker/Love/Chriss is an interesting core
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said the Suns were going to send #4 to the Cavs for Love and the pick was going to head to Indiana or Chicago for Butler or George (or that was the hope of Griffin).
i wouldnt send it for george, i would for butler
Why wouldn't the suns demand Butler for that? Why would any team do all the dirty work for the cavs and give the bulls the requisite return but receive the lesser player? I can't see how Butler to Cleveland works In the slightest.
I thought the same thing. I don't see how they are similar in any way.
And what the hell is Gilbert thinking? I don't view Griffin as highly as some people but this timing couldn't be any worse. Not to mention possibly angering Lebron. Gilbert is such an asshole- he doesn't deserve that team.
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What..I can't even process that.
I thought the same thing. I don't see how they are similar in any way.
Lots of head scratchers on that list now that I'm going down.
And what the hell is Gilbert thinking? I don't view Griffin as highly as some people but this timing couldn't be any worse. Not to mention possibly angering Lebron. Gilbert is such an asshole- he doesn't deserve that team.
Gilbert is as if Dolan lucked into Jordan
-similar reach despite the 2" height diff
-expectation that both should be adequate from "3" i.e. 35-37%, and do much of their damage mid range and closer
-anticipation of mid 20s scoring avg in their primes
-defensive indifference
I see some James Harden comps thrown around for Fullz but due to the athletic gap, righty vs lefty etc. I don't see that.
Anyway I think we have a reasonable idea of what Fullz will be even if there isn't an obvious parallel. I wouldn't get carried away with 1 of 40 comps.
Sources: Phil Jackson met with Lauri Markkanen in New York on Monday, a player whom he's considering at No. 8 should Knicks move Porzingis.Adrian Wojnarowski added,
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account @WojVerticalNBA
Sources: As teams become aware Phil Jackson isn't ruling out possibility of trading Kristaps Porzingis, frenzy of interest is growing today.
Ian Begley
@IanBegley
Following
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Knicks have gotten several calls from teams interested in trading for Kristaps Porzingis, per sources: http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0668835824577550669-4
Send them Lance Thomas too in a salary dump
I doubt this. You said you were done if 2010 didn't go well & they've been incompetent for almost a decade since.
Send them Lance Thomas too in a salary dump
why not throw in Zizic for good measure!! hell.. a couple more picks, too!
what if you get 3, jaylen brown next years bkn pick, next years la pick and 1 more first?
and in my personal opinion this is woj trying to stir up knicks fans, 2 years ago before the lottery he said it was a 4 player draft, then it became 3 when knicks got 4 then it was knicks do not like anyone and are trading out...
this is the media stirring up drama
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done with the Knicks if that happens.
I doubt this. You said you were done if 2010 didn't go well & they've been incompetent for almost a decade since.
I already promised if Derrick Rose returns I will not be posting on any Knicks threads in 2018 and I will 100% stick to that. If they trade KP (obviously the return would matter) but I'd probably be fully finished with the Knicks. They make me sick.
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done with the Knicks if that happens.
what if you get 3, jaylen brown next years bkn pick, next years la pick and 1 more first?
and in my personal opinion this is woj trying to stir up knicks fans, 2 years ago before the lottery he said it was a 4 player draft, then it became 3 when knicks got 4 then it was knicks do not like anyone and are trading out...
this is the media stirring up drama
So Ainge is giving up every single chip he added for KP? Lets be realistic here. Ainge if anything is a hoarder and he has his eyes on guys like Anthony Davis. KP isn't bringing back #3 overall, Brown, Nets pick, Lakers pick and 1 more first... that's a deal for a top 5 player in the NBA.
I'm with this but i also agree with the "kings" ransom concert BC suggested. Like what if the wolves did this years first, Dunn and Lavine plus another first next year?
It would have to be an obviously lopsided deal and I'd want a guy with star upside in return (obviously Lavine's upside is in the he of the beholder, but given his athleticism and elite shooting ability I'd throw him as a very high upside option).
Boston would have to unload a bevy of picks as I don't see what their high upside option would be. I'm not sure I even take #3 and brown for him.
- Better of Lakers conditional or Nets unconditional 2018 (determined after the lottery)
- Best of their 2019 picks (Philly, Sacto, Memphis, LAC)
- Marcus Smart
Thing is, I dont think Phil wants to play that long game.
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In comment 13504726 DanMetroMan said:
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done with the Knicks if that happens.
what if you get 3, jaylen brown next years bkn pick, next years la pick and 1 more first?
and in my personal opinion this is woj trying to stir up knicks fans, 2 years ago before the lottery he said it was a 4 player draft, then it became 3 when knicks got 4 then it was knicks do not like anyone and are trading out...
this is the media stirring up drama
So Ainge is giving up every single chip he added for KP? Lets be realistic here. Ainge if anything is a hoarder and he has his eyes on guys like Anthony Davis. KP isn't bringing back #3 overall, Brown, Nets pick, Lakers pick and 1 more first... that's a deal for a top 5 player in the NBA.
then you hang up and say thanks but no thanks...
you only do it if your blown away..
i still dont believe it, i think this woj just riling up knicks fans 2 days before the draft..
Isn't the idea that the Knicks need MORE players like him to actually be competitive again? The entire point of lottery picks is so that you can get a player like Porzingis and rebuild your team.
I doubt the Knicks will actually trade him, I just don't understand why it would even be a consideration.
I'm with this but i also agree with the "kings" ransom concert BC suggested. Like what if the wolves did this years first, Dunn and Lavine plus another first next year?
That's a Duke's ransom. That's a mid lottery pick this year, a mid lottery pick or worse next year, Dunn (was dreadful and isnt young), and Lavine who is good but you have to max him out soon.
Kings ransom is BOS's best pick each of the next 3 seasons.
Isn't the idea that the Knicks need MORE players like him to actually be competitive again? The entire point of lottery picks is so that you can get a player like Porzingis and rebuild your team.
I doubt the Knicks will actually trade him, I just don't understand why it would even be a consideration.
Correct. You fire Phil before you trade KP, unless you get a total come to Jesus offer
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not even sure it's worth "exploring". He's 22. What are teams giving up that makes it worth your while? 3 1sts? You pray firsts are even NBA players let alone potential superstars. Sure, if someone does something ridiculous you don't hang up the phone but I'd have to be truly blown away. I would't take say the T wolves next 3 1sts for him.
I'm with this but i also agree with the "kings" ransom concert BC suggested. Like what if the wolves did this years first, Dunn and Lavine plus another first next year?
It would have to be an obviously lopsided deal and I'd want a guy with star upside in return (obviously Lavine's upside is in the he of the beholder, but given his athleticism and elite shooting ability I'd throw him as a very high upside option).
Boston would have to unload a bevy of picks as I don't see what their high upside option would be. I'm not sure I even take #3 and brown for him.
Yeah. The deal would have to be lopsided in our favor with the team trading for him believing he's going to help them quicker than the picks and/or absolutely loving him. I wouldn't do an "even value" trade, the downside is too great. If he's a future top 10 player (which I believe he can be) and the return are 2-3 "starters" it's a bad trade. Stars league. Dunn was so bad I basically assign him "throw in" value so LaVine, + #3 + a 1st from a team that figures to be quite good with KP/KAT/Wiggins.... in fact a team like that suddenly becomes really, really intriguing/exciting while we pray for the future. yuck.
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I'm with this but i also agree with the "kings" ransom concert BC suggested. Like what if the wolves did this years first, Dunn and Lavine plus another first next year?
That's a Duke's ransom. That's a mid lottery pick this year, a mid lottery pick or worse next year, Dunn (was dreadful and isnt young), and Lavine who is good but you have to max him out soon.
Kings ransom is BOS's best pick each of the next 3 seasons.
Obviously injury needs to be factored in but to me Lavine is More of a sure thing than any potential pick. If the nets pick next year is in consideration that certainly changes things the top of next years class is incredibly intriguing. But my guess is ainge would try to make a deal with giving up more of lesser 1sts rather than a home run pick like the nets.
When do you ever find a guy with his physical tools, skillset, and makeup?
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No one from the Knicks organization has been in touch with Kristaps Porzingis since he skipped exit meetings, per league sources.
IDK, spitballing again here: Paul George and Myles Turner for KP
KP and Courtney Lee for KAT and Ricky Rubio
And for everyone saying Woj hates the Knicks. He heaped praised on Phil for picking KP.
I'm speechless. I can't believe people would want Jaylen Brown and draft picks for him. You pray a draft pick ends up like KP and one you find him you don't trade him. I'm 100% done with this team if this goes down.
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In comment 13504747 giantsfan44ab said:
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I'm with this but i also agree with the "kings" ransom concert BC suggested. Like what if the wolves did this years first, Dunn and Lavine plus another first next year?
That's a Duke's ransom. That's a mid lottery pick this year, a mid lottery pick or worse next year, Dunn (was dreadful and isnt young), and Lavine who is good but you have to max him out soon.
Kings ransom is BOS's best pick each of the next 3 seasons.
Obviously injury needs to be factored in but to me Lavine is More of a sure thing than any potential pick. If the nets pick next year is in consideration that certainly changes things the top of next years class is incredibly intriguing. But my guess is ainge would try to make a deal with giving up more of lesser 1sts rather than a home run pick like the nets.
Sure thing to what end? What the fuck is a Lavine led team going to get you to? Ever.
Come on, KP. We praised you for your maturity at such a young age, but this is not a good look.
And for everyone saying Woj hates the Knicks. He heaped praised on Phil for picking KP.
I'm speechless. I can't believe people would want Jaylen Brown and draft picks for him. You pray a draft pick ends up like KP and one you find him you don't trade him. I'm 100% done with this team if this goes down.
woj does hate the knicks and that has been proven...
he said in an article knicks were not signing anyonr because walsh was in a wheelchair...
he also when knicks hired phil said phil would never go there and he was going back to the lakers and it was a great move...
next day phil signs with knicks and he calls it a horrible move...
he has admitted in an article he trashes teams and players who dont give him info and praises teams that do
this, once begely started chiming in it became real to me...
i am hoping it is as simple has phil answering the phone and talking to a team and phil saying no but the team leaked knicks didnt completely dismiss tradd
Come on, KP. We praised you for your maturity at such a young age, but this is not a good look.
Who says he cut off all communictions? That is not what the Begley post says.
Exactly. That's what gives the story some legs.
It goes on to examine percentile-wise how his metrics stack up in the league he played, noting that his Net Rating, O Rating and D Rating were all exceptional, despite the fact that he was by far the youngest player in the league.
Link - ( New Window )
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But KP hasn't exactly been the consummate professional. I know he's 22 and all, but he's acting like an petulant little child. How much is he getting paid? And he's going to cut off all communications with his employer? I don't care how incompetent they are.
Come on, KP. We praised you for your maturity at such a young age, but this is not a good look.
Who says he cut off all communictions? That is not what the Begley post says.
Ian Begley @IanBegley
To clarify: NYK management, coaches have not been in touch with Porzingis since the skipped exit meeting. Teammates (Kuzminskas, Willy) have
Between all of us, we could probably come up with a pretty good frame job on Dolan. Sure, we might face jail time if we got caught, but it's probably worth the risk.
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In comment 13504783 Anakim said:
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But KP hasn't exactly been the consummate professional. I know he's 22 and all, but he's acting like an petulant little child. How much is he getting paid? And he's going to cut off all communications with his employer? I don't care how incompetent they are.
Come on, KP. We praised you for your maturity at such a young age, but this is not a good look.
Who says he cut off all communictions? That is not what the Begley post says.
Ian Begley @IanBegley
To clarify: NYK management, coaches have not been in touch with Porzingis since the skipped exit meeting. Teammates (Kuzminskas, Willy) have
Which words in there say that KP cut off communications?
I havent talked to my friend Matt in 2 months. Would any sentient human jump to the conclusion that I cut off communications with him based on that fact alone?
So besides injury I don't know why Lavine is considered some average bum but Booker and KP are automatically guys you can center a franchise around.
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In comment 13504794 Deej said:
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In comment 13504783 Anakim said:
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But KP hasn't exactly been the consummate professional. I know he's 22 and all, but he's acting like an petulant little child. How much is he getting paid? And he's going to cut off all communications with his employer? I don't care how incompetent they are.
Come on, KP. We praised you for your maturity at such a young age, but this is not a good look.
Who says he cut off all communictions? That is not what the Begley post says.
Ian Begley @IanBegley
To clarify: NYK management, coaches have not been in touch with Porzingis since the skipped exit meeting. Teammates (Kuzminskas, Willy) have
Which words in there say that KP cut off communications?
I havent talked to my friend Matt in 2 months. Would any sentient human jump to the conclusion that I cut off communications with him based on that fact alone?
Deej, c'mon. Your example is totally different.
The implication from the Knicks/KP situation is that KP skipped the exit meetings (while staying in New York) and then subsequently fled to Latvia in order to avoid all communications with the Knicks and that seems to have rung true.
They haven't spoken. There's no communication between the two parties. It's extremely alarming.
Booker also has an insane nose for the hoop, angles, there are certain players that simply have an innate ability to "find a way" to score. Booker has it in spades. He's a future scoring champ.
Lavine is more athletic than Booker. To date lavine has 2 seasons as a 38% 3 point shooter, Booker so far is 35% for his career. Booker is better at drawing fouls but Lavine has a higher assist % and lower TO% (albeit lower usage has some impact).
But they are both similar players are they not? Lavine has all the makings of being a top 5 NBA shooter. What's the tremendous difference between Booker and Lavine in that regard? And Im a massive fan of Booker too.
IDK. I think KP took a major step back this year. I thought he was phenomenal and promising his rookie year, but last year was a disappointment in my eyes. He still has immense potential though.
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KP managed to improve despite being surrounded by the most toxic cast of players in the NBA and a coach who didn't know what to do with him. Again, very few things would rankle me at this point with this Godforsaken franchise, but trading KP would be the final straw.
IDK. I think KP took a major step back this year. I thought he was phenomenal and promising his rookie year, but last year was a disappointment in my eyes. He still has immense potential though.
There's an argument to be made that he did not improve but stayed stagnant. "Major step back" is absurd.
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In comment 13504824 Ash_3 said:
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KP managed to improve despite being surrounded by the most toxic cast of players in the NBA and a coach who didn't know what to do with him. Again, very few things would rankle me at this point with this Godforsaken franchise, but trading KP would be the final straw.
IDK. I think KP took a major step back this year. I thought he was phenomenal and promising his rookie year, but last year was a disappointment in my eyes. He still has immense potential though.
There's an argument to be made that he did not improve but stayed stagnant. "Major step back" is absurd.
Maybe not a major step back but I do think he didn't have the year we all expected him to have. He sort of hit that sophomore wall.
I don't ever put anything past the Knicks when it comes to doing something stupid - but it seems like a lot of the hysteria might be unwarranted here.
I doubt the Knicks are trading him or even looking to.
I do agree with this. Phil loves to use writers to send messages to players but he rarely gives anyone scoops on what his plans are.
I don't ever put anything past the Knicks when it comes to doing something stupid - but it seems like a lot of the hysteria might be unwarranted here.
I doubt the Knicks are trading him or even looking to.
seems to me it is all centered on phil saying he is not untouchable...
this whole thing is probably based on a team that called and told woj knicks didnt hang up right away...
now its knicks are considering trading kp
2) KAT and Ricky Rubio for KP and Lee
3) Paul George and Myles Turner for KP
2. Despite # 1, their utter incompetence has to introduce an element of doubt.
Question: While Dolan has seemingly stayed true to his word and let Jackson pour gasoline on a franchise already engulfed in flames, if Phil agreed to a bad trade i.e. KP for < value, does Dolan have the right of refusal? Or could Phil single handedly destroy what's left of the franchise with no check and balance?
and if it is markannen at 8 he better be a damn good player
Janis Porzingis, Kristaps' brother, to ESPN: "Despite how the Knicks are treating their players, Kris wants to stay in New York." More: https://twitter.com/ESPNNewYork/status/877189954509524992
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Ian Begley @IanBegley
Janis Porzingis, Kristaps' brother, to ESPN: "Despite how the Knicks are treating their players, Kris wants to stay in New York." More: https://twitter.com/ESPNNewYork/status/877189954509524992
Always the best news. Trade talk makes everyone crazy. Stay the course.
One name of strong interest for Knicks and Bulls is Josh Jackson
2) KAT and Ricky Rubio for KP and Lee
3) Paul George and Myles Turner for KP
There is zero chance that Minnesota would trade KAT, especially since he is probably valued higher than Porzingis. KP for Turner would be awful (that's all that trade would amount to because no chance George stays. The Phoenix package you could talk me into.
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Ian Begley @IanBegley
Janis Porzingis, Kristaps' brother, to ESPN: "Despite how the Knicks are treating their players, Kris wants to stay in New York." More: https://twitter.com/ESPNNewYork/status/877189954509524992
While it's good news, the qualifier sticks out like a sore thumb.
b) this is "head fake" of trade (i.e. he has no intention of trading KP) in an attempt to push Dolan closer to firing him so he can collect $12mm a year for nothing
c) Dolan would block such a trade
One name of strong interest for Knicks and Bulls is Josh Jackson
One name of strong interest for Ash is Emily Ratajkowski.
Now that trade season is in full swing ahead of the draft, the Knicks have been flooded with interest in their star, sources confirmed. And according to a source, the Celtics are among the teams interested.
I like Josh Jackson but no thanks.
That's because he still did a mediocre to bad job.
Walsh executed a plan that a 10 year old could have executed. He did enough dumb shit in his time here and the only good thing he did was a no brainer for everyone to do.
Name one good thing he did that wasn't a no brainer
his "involved" selling off useful players for pennies on the dollar LONG before he needed to. And then there's the whole Jordan Hill debacle. I could go on...
Jeff ZillgittVerified account @JeffZillgitt 54s54 seconds ago
One person with knowledge of Knicks/Porzingis trade possibility characterized situation as job preservation for front office.
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GM we've had since the turn of the century, yet many Knick fans bashed him. He executed a legit plan. Generally, the Knick fan is an insecure, arrogant & not very smart fan. And I don't mean to insult, I'm a Knick fan (not as much as I used to be).
his "involved" selling off useful players for pennies on the dollar LONG before he needed to. And then there's the whole Jordan Hill debacle. I could go on...
Things like Jordan Hill happen all the time in the NBA. The cavs blundered the number 1 pick on Anthony Bennett. The Lakers acquired Kwame Brown. In the context of NBA franchise malpractice, swinging and missing on Jordan Hill isn't a fireable offense.
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In comment 13504875 Sean said:
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GM we've had since the turn of the century, yet many Knick fans bashed him. He executed a legit plan. Generally, the Knick fan is an insecure, arrogant & not very smart fan. And I don't mean to insult, I'm a Knick fan (not as much as I used to be).
his "involved" selling off useful players for pennies on the dollar LONG before he needed to. And then there's the whole Jordan Hill debacle. I could go on...
Things like Jordan Hill happen all the time in the NBA. The cavs blundered the number 1 pick on Anthony Bennett. The Lakers acquired Kwame Brown. In the context of NBA franchise malpractice, swinging and missing on Jordan Hill isn't a fireable offense.
This.
Things like Jordan Hill happen all the time in the NBA. The cavs blundered the number 1 pick on Anthony Bennett. The Lakers acquired Kwame Brown. In the context of NBA franchise malpractice, swinging and missing on Jordan Hill isn't a fireable offense.
I completely disagree. While there are a ton of draft busts, Jordan Hill was a TERRIBLE pick at the time that was compounded by the fact he played the same exact position as the Knicks' best player. He wasn't a terrible pick in hindsight... it was a terrible pick the second it was announced.
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In comment 13504875 Sean said:
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GM we've had since the turn of the century, yet many Knick fans bashed him. He executed a legit plan. Generally, the Knick fan is an insecure, arrogant & not very smart fan. And I don't mean to insult, I'm a Knick fan (not as much as I used to be).
his "involved" selling off useful players for pennies on the dollar LONG before he needed to. And then there's the whole Jordan Hill debacle. I could go on...
Things like Jordan Hill happen all the time in the NBA. The cavs blundered the number 1 pick on Anthony Bennett. The Lakers acquired Kwame Brown. In the context of NBA franchise malpractice, swinging and missing on Jordan Hill isn't a fireable offense.
um...like I said, I could go on.
Jeff ZillgittVerified account @JeffZillgitt 54s54 seconds ago
One person with knowledge of Knicks/Porzingis trade possibility characterized situation as job preservation for front office.
What the hell does that even mean? Wouldn't it be the opposite? Wouldn't trading away your best player HURT your cause more than help it?
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In comment 13504913 Enzo said:
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In comment 13504875 Sean said:
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GM we've had since the turn of the century, yet many Knick fans bashed him. He executed a legit plan. Generally, the Knick fan is an insecure, arrogant & not very smart fan. And I don't mean to insult, I'm a Knick fan (not as much as I used to be).
his "involved" selling off useful players for pennies on the dollar LONG before he needed to. And then there's the whole Jordan Hill debacle. I could go on...
Things like Jordan Hill happen all the time in the NBA. The cavs blundered the number 1 pick on Anthony Bennett. The Lakers acquired Kwame Brown. In the context of NBA franchise malpractice, swinging and missing on Jordan Hill isn't a fireable offense.
um...like I said, I could go on.
I get it, but I could expand on my point too. The immortal pat riley drafted Justise Winslow 10th overall. You could be a better shooter from your desk chair right now.
That's terrible planning. There always needs to be a Plan B. Always.
I was told "draft picks don't matter" or some bs like that when I killed the bargs trade before it was even final. Not patting myself on the back...the whole world knew that was a dumb move.
That's terrible planning. There always needs to be a Plan B. Always.
Still so much better than all the other crap we've had in the FO.
So the Knicks have been the unprofessional ones now, right? Cutting off communications?
The Knicks are utterly failing in talent management, and some people want to turn it on the players. Ridiculous.
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Warriors took Curry. He had his sights set on Curry and when he was taken, the Knicks were left scrambling.
That's terrible planning. There always needs to be a Plan B. Always.
Still so much better than all the other crap we've had in the FO.
That's not saying much though. I mean when you've had Scott Layden, Isiah Thomas, Glen Grunwald and Phil Jackson, anyone would look compared to them.
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Warriors took Curry. He had his sights set on Curry and when he was taken, the Knicks were left scrambling.
That's terrible planning. There always needs to be a Plan B. Always.
Still so much better than all the other crap we've had in the FO.
typical nonsense from some of the Knick fans around here. They love to set the bar incredibly low.
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"Around the NBA, the possibility of Jackson trading Porzingis, a uniquely talented and wildly popular 7-foot-3 player, has been met with bewilderment by rival executives eager to make a deal with New York. Since Porzingis frustrated with the level of dysfunction within the franchise skipped his season-ending exit meeting, the Knicks havent made an attempt to reach or visit him in Europe this summer, league sources told The Vertical."
So the Knicks have been the unprofessional ones now, right? Cutting off communications?
The Knicks are utterly failing in talent management, and some people want to turn it on the players. Ridiculous.
I think it's a two-way street, Deej. You think that KP is actively looking to talk to anyone in the Knicks FO? Seems like once the season ended, both parties wanted nothing to do with each other.
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@sam_amick
On the Kristaps Porzingis front, one exec who has been in touch with the Knicks describes their asking price as "very aggressive."
I think that was NYGiants16
People might've told you to chill about the player (Bargs)... literally no one thought it was a good idea to trade a 1st round pick for him.
That's terrible planning. There always needs to be a Plan B. Always.
maybe if he didnt blab it to the world...
walshs biggest problem, he let everything leak, everyone knew what he was doing
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As I recall, there was just one person defending it very vocally. Can't remember who it was.
I think that was NYGiants16
you sure about that? maybe i wasnt a whiny bitch about it but i didnt defend it...
i think what i said was i like the fit and i hope the 1st round pick doesnt bite us in the ass
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In comment 13504953 Greg from LI said:
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As I recall, there was just one person defending it very vocally. Can't remember who it was.
I think that was NYGiants16
you sure about that? maybe i wasnt a whiny bitch about it but i didnt defend it...
i think what i said was i like the fit and i hope the 1st round pick doesnt bite us in the ass
IDK, but I seem to recall you saying that you thought that Bargs could turn it around in New York and that the first rounder would be meaningless then.
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In comment 13504821 Anakim said:
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"Around the NBA, the possibility of Jackson trading Porzingis, a uniquely talented and wildly popular 7-foot-3 player, has been met with bewilderment by rival executives eager to make a deal with New York. Since Porzingis frustrated with the level of dysfunction within the franchise skipped his season-ending exit meeting, the Knicks havent made an attempt to reach or visit him in Europe this summer, league sources told The Vertical."
So the Knicks have been the unprofessional ones now, right? Cutting off communications?
The Knicks are utterly failing in talent management, and some people want to turn it on the players. Ridiculous.
I think it's a two-way street, Deej. You think that KP is actively looking to talk to anyone in the Knicks FO? Seems like once the season ended, both parties wanted nothing to do with each other.
Whatever. Your point about KP being unprofessional because he cut off communications has been totally undermined and you cant let it go.
The Knicks need to manage their relationship with KP, not the other way around. The Knicks are the ones running a foul organization, while KP works his ass off. If you want to put a pox on both houses, so be it. It's crazy IMO.
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In comment 13504969 Anakim said:
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In comment 13504953 Greg from LI said:
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As I recall, there was just one person defending it very vocally. Can't remember who it was.
I think that was NYGiants16
you sure about that? maybe i wasnt a whiny bitch about it but i didnt defend it...
i think what i said was i like the fit and i hope the 1st round pick doesnt bite us in the ass
IDK, but I seem to recall you saying that you thought that Bargs could turn it around in New York and that the first rounder would be meaningless then.
i said i hoped bargs would turn it around and that the knicks would continue to improve on their 54 win season and i hoped the 1st round pick did not turn into a lotto pick...
how is that saying omg great trade..
just because i dont whine and cry after every move thinking the sky is falling doesnt mean i am defending it...
I think the only thing worse about trading KP is trading KP within the division, especially to the Celtics.
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In comment 13504980 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 13504969 Anakim said:
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In comment 13504953 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
As I recall, there was just one person defending it very vocally. Can't remember who it was.
I think that was NYGiants16
you sure about that? maybe i wasnt a whiny bitch about it but i didnt defend it...
i think what i said was i like the fit and i hope the 1st round pick doesnt bite us in the ass
IDK, but I seem to recall you saying that you thought that Bargs could turn it around in New York and that the first rounder would be meaningless then.
i said i hoped bargs would turn it around and that the knicks would continue to improve on their 54 win season and i hoped the 1st round pick did not turn into a lotto pick...
how is that saying omg great trade..
just because i dont whine and cry after every move thinking the sky is falling doesnt mean i am defending it...
I was one who thought
nygiants16 : 12/15/2014 10:01 am : link
the pick was meaningless and that Bargs could turn it around in New York being the 2nd fiddle behind Melo an dnot having the pressure on him...
Boy was i wrong
I think the ones who buy tickets are the same ones who agree that you should be doing whatever you can to get as good as you can, as quickly as you can. I.e. the ones who agree with the Dolan model.
Shit, Im still having arguments here with people who defend the Rose trade.
Not a big deal. I went looking for the thread but couldn't find it.
This franchise sucks.
Phil was pretty clear that no one is untouchable. That's why it's been floated on this board a few times already.
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Sam Amick
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@sam_amick
On the Kristaps Porzingis front, one exec who has been in touch with the Knicks describes their asking price as "very aggressive."
I'd be happier with "out of their fucking minds aggressive"
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@JeffZillgitt
One person with knowledge of Knicks/Porzingis trade possibility characterized situation as job preservation for front office.
Does this help their job security to trade the first young stud we've had in 30 years?
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ehat id the big deal? i even said i HOPED the pick was meaningles, exactly what i just said..
Not a big deal. I went looking for the thread but couldn't find it.
ill tell you exactly what i said, i thought bargs could turn it around in new york with melo, chandler and amare he didnt have any of the spotlight or pressure...
i thought he would be a good fit, i thiught the first round pick was a good gamvle coming off a 54 win season and a team built to win now so i thought it wouldnt hurt them...
in the end i was wrong, 1 thing about me i never kill a move untili see how it turns out,
seeing how things turned out what a shitty fucking move
Quote:
Jeff Zillgitt
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@JeffZillgitt
One person with knowledge of Knicks/Porzingis trade possibility characterized situation as job preservation for front office.
Does this help their job security to trade the first young stud we've had in 30 years?
it sounds like try to make the playoffs, i have been a defender of phil but if he trades kp for a bunch of old vets i am done...
if he gets a shit ton of lotto picks that is one thing
For Celtics number 3
Jaylen Brown
Brooklyns number one 2018
For Celtics number 3
Jaylen Brown
Brooklyns number one 2018
no need more
For Celtics number 3
Jaylen Brown
Brooklyns number one 2018
No. Dumping Lance Thomas contract does nothing for the Knicks. He has 3 years 20 million left. What are they doing with that cap room minus KP and Melo? That's close to zero added value to the trade.
my take, teams are leaking this to get even more chaos in new york that kp demands a trade...
I wouldn't be looking to trade him, but he's not a LeBron level player where you don't even listen to offers.
If someone blows me away, I would trade him
So much of this is just Twitter-fueled bullshit.
I wouldn't be looking to trade him, but he's not a LeBron level player where you don't even listen to offers.
If someone blows me away, I would trade him
Yep same here, I just have no faith in Phil getting what he needs to get.
That feels so beyond unlikely i don't know where to start.
i would think long and hard about it..
you then have 2 lotto picks this year, 3 lotto picks next year, and then 2 firat the following year...
you could rebuild rather quickly BUT seeing kp in boston would hurt a little bit
I wouldn't be looking to trade him, but he's not a LeBron level player where you don't even listen to offers.
If someone blows me away, I would trade him
It's not that he's untouchable. It's that a lot of these people HATE Phil Jackson with every fiber of their being. The original story says Phil hasn't called anyone, but he's willing to listen if the offer is big enough. The people who HATE Phil didn't read that part of the story.
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@ChrisMannixYS
Growing skepticism among some execs in contact w/New York that the Knicks are serious about a KP deal. Price described as extremely high.
Why are people so attached to him? Seriously, what have I missed here?
I like his potential, like him as a player, but some of you are seriously acting like he's 1 level below LeBron. He's not.
If the celtics want him, then they better come up with a huge package, and I'm sure the knicks are taking that attitude as well.
Dan saying if the knicks trade him he hopes he goes for 45 and 12 is just absurd. What has he done for the Knicks that people are so attached to him like that?
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"Phil Jackson is in love with Jayson Tatum. He believes he's the best player in the Draft."
That feels so beyond unlikely i don't know where to start.
It's weird. Since the beginning of draft season, we've also heard that Phil would take Josh Jackson over both Fultz and Ball...and then we heard that Phil really loves Fultz as well.
So in other words, Phil loves everyone but Ball
You've already decided who they would pick, what they would get, and are saying just absolutely ridiculous things like you already hope he goes for 45 and 12 if he comes back here.
Settle down. He's not getting traded for a junk package like you're expecting. The way you're acting, you would think it's a lock they're going to trade him at all costs.
Would not be surprised if this happened. At all.
Why are people so attached to him? Seriously, what have I missed here?
I like his potential, like him as a player, but some of you are seriously acting like he's 1 level below LeBron. He's not.
If the celtics want him, then they better come up with a huge package, and I'm sure the knicks are taking that attitude as well.
Dan saying if the knicks trade him he hopes he goes for 45 and 12 is just absurd. What has he done for the Knicks that people are so attached to him like that?
Cowherd echoed these sentiments exactly
Nets pick 2018
Lakers 2018 pick (only if 2 through 5) or Philly/Sacramento (non-top overall pick) in 2019
Celtics 2019
Memphis 2019 (non-top 8 pick)
Clippers 2019 (non-top 14 pick)
Celtics 2021
I'm talking a Hershel Walker-type return.
basically this is nothing but we are going to put it out there that the knicks are trading kp and ph look perfrct timing the knicks worked out markannen
Nets pick 2018
Lakers 2018 pick (only if 2 through 5) or Philly/Sacramento (non-top overall pick) in 2019
Celtics 2019
Memphis 2019 (non-top 8 pick)
Clippers 2019 (non-top 14 pick)
Celtics 2021
I'm talking a Hershel Walker-type return.
You accept that instantly.
That's a GIGANTIC hell to the NO.
He's not getting traded unless the knicks get a kings ransom. Show me ONE thing that Phil Jackson has ever done that would tell you he's going to trade KP for a mediocre package?
Saying he deserves zero benefit of the doubt is just absurd.
Haha, I forgot what we did before Twitter. Sit around watching ESPNEWS waiting for Breaking News? Haha
the problem is not twitter, it is that every writer apins it to help their agenda, rather than just reporting facts, they writw it in a way they know they are going to get a ton of clicks
He's not getting traded unless the knicks get a kings ransom. Show me ONE thing that Phil Jackson has ever done that would tell you he's going to trade KP for a mediocre package?
Saying he deserves zero benefit of the doubt is just absurd.
he's been awful as an executive. Anyone that has confidence in his ability to build a roster at this point is delusional or just not paying attention.
He's not getting traded unless the knicks get a kings ransom. Show me ONE thing that Phil Jackson has ever done that would tell you he's going to trade KP for a mediocre package?
Saying he deserves zero benefit of the doubt is just absurd.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/11135060/dallas-mavericks-acquire-tyson-chandler-raymond-felton-new-york-knicks
@Schultz_Report
League sources say Phil Jackson wants to dump Joakim Noah's contract as part of a #Porzingis trade. Unclear if it's a deal-breaker. #Knicks
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It's times like this where I actually miss pre-Twitter sports reporting.
the problem is not twitter, it is that every writer apins it to help their agenda, rather than just reporting facts, they writw it in a way they know they are going to get a ton of clicks
Well, Twitter is the mechanism they use to spread mis-information faster than ever before so it sort of is the problem.
It has its uses and benefits, it's just funny how quickly a story can spiral out of control based on barely any factual information whatsoever.
@Schultz_Report
League sources say Phil Jackson wants to dump Joakim Noah's contract as part of a #Porzingis trade. Unclear if it's a deal-breaker. #Knicks
Hopefully he's just throwing the kitchen sink out there.
We dont need cap room. We're rebuilding. It would be dumb to waste any assets on making cap space.
He's not getting traded unless the knicks get a kings ransom. Show me ONE thing that Phil Jackson has ever done that would tell you he's going to trade KP for a mediocre package?
Saying he deserves zero benefit of the doubt is just absurd.
I do not trust Phil Jackson.
1. Obsessed with Rambis being here despite it being clear the players don't like him, no evidence he is good at his job. Hornacek asks for a defensive specialist, they try and hire Longabardi (Hornaceks guy), they are unable to... and decide they don't need one.. only to in-season decide Kurt Rambis is the best choice.
2. Yet to see any indication he is willing to actually rebuild. Not his "fault" but so far we have heard interest in PJ Tucker, JJ Redick etc OLD players that will be expensive aka "no rebuild"
3. Doesn't seem to know what he wants to do. Triangle (weird feud with Derek Fisher over it), then modified triangle with a non-triangle coach, now "all-in" triangle
4. Feuds with Melo and KP
5. Trashes the style of play of the most successful teams in the NBA (suggesting he's over the hill)
6. Inarguably one of the greatest coaches in the history of professional sports BUT zero resume for building a roster
7. Noah's contract....
8. Reportedly takes Grant against the wishes of his scouts and then gives up on him after 1 season (I never cared for Grant and I'm not suggesting he's anything special but it does suggest his "plan" is all over the place)
9. Doesn't suspend Derrick Rose (Circus)
10. Reportedly has a deal for Rubio but insists on more for Rose (Admittedly depends on who you believe)
11. Has a personal mouthpiece who "speaks for him"
12. His rings were supposed to be a gamechanger, couldn't even secure a meeting with Durant and told LMA he wanted him to play out of position at C.
Bottom line, I don't trust him and he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt from me like Pat Riley etc would
Twitter is at it's worst when it comes to injuries. A dude could down in training camp & people freak out, though we have no idea if it's major or not. Fifteen years we wouldn't even have known unless it was something big.
@Schultz_Report
League sources say Phil Jackson wants to dump Joakim Noah's contract as part of a #Porzingis trade. Unclear if it's a deal-breaker. #Knicks
no offense anak but this guy is a moron
I think Dan's point is that he's been generally incompetent, so he is unreliable. Plus he may view KP as undermining him right now (speculation).
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