Adrian Wojnarowski& #8207;Verified account @WojVerticalNBA
Lakers are trading Tim Mozgov and D'Angelo Russell to Nets for Brook Lopez and 27th pick Thursday, sources say.
having to give up Lopez, a first round pick and taking Mozgov's contract just to get Russell. I would understand it more if they got the Lakers 28th pick.
to take on the contract to pick up an asset. It just seems like they gave up everything and a good pick for a guy I'm not sure others will want to play with.
to take on the contract to pick up an asset. It just seems like they gave up everything and a good pick for a guy I'm not sure others will want to play with.
Is beyond awful and full of opinion
Facts are this
The nets traded an expiring player in Lopez- if they held onto him- they would have the right to pay him 30m a year to keep him.
The nets traded the 27th pick- anpick that yields very few relevant NBA players- but it is an asset so they did give that up
The nets take on the number 2 player in the draft 2 years ago who is 21 and scored 20 a game after the all star break. He also now gets to work with a coach known for player development, point guards in particular.
They have to eat 3 years of mozgov- the contract will be a burden for one year (2018)- and he will get minutes
The deal works for both teams- the nets acquire the best talent they possibly could in russel- who fits- and the lakers dump a bad salary to free space while getting a rental in Lopez who they could also move again before the deadline
+1. No lose deal for the Nets. If Russell pans out, it's an absolute home run. Gotta give Marks credit for finding a way to get a talent like that with limited assets.
Is beyond awful and full of opinion
Facts are this
The nets traded an expiring player in Lopez- if they held onto him- they would have the right to pay him 30m a year to keep him.
The nets traded the 27th pick- anpick that yields very few relevant NBA players- but it is an asset so they did give that up
The nets take on the number 2 player in the draft 2 years ago who is 21 and scored 20 a game after the all star break. He also now gets to work with a coach known for player development, point guards in particular.
They have to eat 3 years of mozgov- the contract will be a burden for one year (2018)- and he will get minutes
The deal works for both teams- the nets acquire the best talent they possibly could in russel- who fits- and the lakers dump a bad salary to free space while getting a rental in Lopez who they could also move again before the deadline
That wasnt my analysis of the trade. As I said earlier in the thread I thought it was a good trade for the Nets. But the notion that there is no downside is nuts.
Josh Jackson or whoever CHI would take at 3. My guess is CHI asked for #3 and a future pick.
But yeah it also sounds like Butler wants to stay in CHI. I mean if he supposedly didnt even want to go to CLE to play with Lebron then it sounds like he really wants to stay.
Shows the suspected weakness in the top of the 2015 draft. While I really like DLo, he hadn't done much to alleviate the concerns over finding his best position, maturing, and the fact he's probably just an OK athlete in a league of elite horses.
Shows the suspected weakness in the top of the 2015 draft. While I really like DLo, he hadn't done much to alleviate the concerns over finding his best position, maturing, and the fact he's probably just an OK athlete in a league of elite horses.
Think there's still a very decent chance that with proper coaching and continued improvement on his jumper, DLO still becomes a quality lead guard.
might as well take a shot on Russell. They arent winning with Brook still on the team so you might as well parlay him into a kid who went #2 just a couple years ago. Sure the Mozgov salary sux, but i mean what stars are going to BKN? Plus they got a very early second round pick in the deal.
Shows the suspected weakness in the top of the 2015 draft. While I really like DLo, he hadn't done much to alleviate the concerns over finding his best position, maturing, and the fact he's probably just an OK athlete in a league of elite horses.
Think there's still a very decent chance that with proper coaching and continued improvement on his jumper, DLO still becomes a quality lead guard.
perfect team set up for him to find out. Low pressure developmental situation, motion offense, and a coach known for developing point guards and getting the most out of them. looking forward to seeing how it evolves but they were not getting a player with this upside/potential any other way.
Shows the suspected weakness in the top of the 2015 draft. While I really like DLo, he hadn't done much to alleviate the concerns over finding his best position, maturing, and the fact he's probably just an OK athlete in a league of elite horses.
Think there's still a very decent chance that with proper coaching and continued improvement on his jumper, DLO still becomes a quality lead guard.
perfect team set up for him to find out. Low pressure developmental situation, motion offense, and a coach known for developing point guards and getting the most out of them. looking forward to seeing how it evolves but they were not getting a player with this upside/potential any other way.
Yea I definitely think there's a shot he turns into something in Brooklyn. Might try to watch a game this winter to see him live.
I think a lot will depend on how good of a shooter he becomes. If he can turn into a great shooter and keep the hollywood passing to a low, he'll be very good. If he remain only a good shooter, then he's capped. His lack of plus athleticism really kills him when driving.
might as well take a shot on Russell. They arent winning with Brook still on the team so you might as well parlay him into a kid who went #2 just a couple years ago. Sure the Mozgov salary sux, but i mean what stars are going to BKN? Plus they got a very early second round pick in the deal.
Totally agree, and I'll be rooting for him to succeed. He definitely has some rare, innate basketball instincts I'm sad to see traded away by the Lakers.
There was a second rumor from David Aldridge last night I really hope isn't true ... Lakers reportedly offered #2 to the Kings for #5 and #10, to flip #5 for PG. No thanks!
Lopez is up there with Buck, Drazen, Gminski as one of my all-time favorite Nets, but this is the right kind of move for the team. A young PG/SG/SF combo of Russell, LeVert, Whitehead and RHJ (when not at PF) is promising long term. As much as I like Brook, his game seemed difficult at times to mesh with their speed/athleticism. As others have mentioned, Mozgov will suffice until they are finally done with the trade repercussions.
A player making $21 mill who is an expiring contract, AND will be 30.
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2- took on 3 years of Mozgov for like 50 million
Nets have plenty of cap room, and won't be signing quality FA's until they are competitive.
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3- gave a late #1, and
Yawn.
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4- traded for a guy who is such a weeny that he made America feel bad for Nick Young for cheating on his fiancee (what happened to Mr. Culture?)
Oh come on. Who cares? I guess it would have been OK if he did drugs or beat his wife, but making a stupid mistake on social media should be a life sentence? And if you felt bad for Nick Young, than you're the idiot, not America.
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That's the sort of logic that some of my fellow Knicks fans used to argue for the Rose trade and Noah signing. It's bad logic.
It is your logic that is bad. The Nets' trade is the EXACT opposite of the Knick transactions. They signed and traded for 2 aging, broken down players with terrible contracts. Russell was the 2nd pick only 2 years ago, is only 21 years old, and is cost-controlled. He certainly has his warts, but there is no reason to think he can't be a good NBA player.
Come on Deej, you're smarter than this. DOn't let your Net hatred cloud your judgement.
This kind of trade is exactly what teams like the Nets
should be doing. You aren't competing in the next few years. Stars aren't signing with you for the next few years. Get rid of what you have for future potential.
It is your logic that is bad. The Nets' trade is the EXACT opposite of the Knick transactions. They signed and traded for 2 aging, broken down players with terrible contracts. Russell was the 2nd pick only 2 years ago, is only 21 years old, and is cost-controlled. He certainly has his warts, but there is no reason to think he can't be a good NBA player.
Come on Deej, you're smarter than this. DOn't let your Net hatred cloud your judgement.
First of all, it's adorable that you think Knicks fans hate the Nets. We dont care.
Second, my first post in the thread said it was a good trade for the Nets. The post you're responding to was a response to hitdog's statement that the trade has "no downside".
That's utter nonsense. Taking on Moz's contract is a downside. Nets fans may dismiss it today because they rightly dont see BK as a FA destination. Im on record encouraging rebuilding teams to weaponize their useless cap space just like this. But that doesnt mean there is no downside. Just wait, you may be feeling shitty about that deal soon.
The "yawn" on late #1s is a joke. Common refrain, teams not respecting their picks. You dont see SAS yawning at their late #1s.
Lopez's contract is fine. 21 million is not a lot of money, and 30 isnt so old.
I was mostly joking about Russell, but it's worth nothing that hitdog has been screaming culture, culture, culture, and then clams up the minute they trade for an apparantly lazy, no defense guy who is most famous re his NBA time for being snitch.
The whole blase attitude, the yawns, the only seeing the downside to Lopez while dismissing any downside to Moz and Russell -- that is totally, 100% the shit Knicks fans have been doing for years. Oh, it's fine to give up Lopez and Grant for Rose -- worst case we just dont resign him, right? Y'all are falling into the same mental trap.
The moment we knew Russell wasn't in the Lakers long-term plans
if you have a good culture you trade for a 21 yr old who has talent but also got caught up in some nonsense.
if he is 30 that is different. if the team has no culture... it is different.
lastly... the point on lopez is that to retain him after this year is 30m bux... they werent ever going to do that.
the Moz contract.. doesnt affect this years cap space a penny... it affects next year... yes. the following year he is an expiring.
The Nets have been trying to move Lopez for years, but they finally were able to move him when he's a salary dump. He really doesn't have a lot of value as a 5 that scores well away from the basket and plays below average defense and rebounds like a guard. You can't win with those guys in your starting lineup and making that kind of money.
Lakers needed to dump a prior mistake and traded a player who still has "prospect" value. Russell is still young and while he probably isn't where the Lakers wanted him to be right now, he's still has some skill and some upside. The Nets traded an expiring and a very late first(which isn't useless as some Nets fans suggest) for a contract which doesn't effect them at all and a solid young player with upside. They win.
if you have a good culture you trade for a 21 yr old who has talent but also got caught up in some nonsense.
if he is 30 that is different. if the team has no culture... it is different.
lastly... the point on lopez is that to retain him after this year is 30m bux... they werent ever going to do that.
the Moz contract.. doesnt affect this years cap space a penny... it affects next year... yes. the following year he is an expiring.
I understand culture. Culture is what you tell yourself when your team is terrible and has no future.
Your other points are nonsense. Lopez isnt getting 30 million, and if he was, he'd be a loss for you guys that you could trade for something else. The way you talk a 3 year big $$ deal for Mozgov into one season makes no sense. The days of the whole league valuing expiring contracts is well over. This isnt the annual Theo Ratliff expiring trade asset era anymore. That 3rd year of Moz sucks. The 2nd year sucks. This year sucks. Only question is whether it prevents you from doing something else.
Again, on net I like the deal for BK. I dont LOVE the deal. The notion that there is no possible downside is bonkers, wishful thinking.
The Nets have been trying to move Lopez for years, but they finally were able to move him when he's a salary dump. He really doesn't have a lot of value as a 5 that scores well away from the basket and plays below average defense and rebounds like a guard. You can't win with those guys in your starting lineup and making that kind of money.
Lakers needed to dump a prior mistake and traded a player who still has "prospect" value. Russell is still young and while he probably isn't where the Lakers wanted him to be right now, he's still has some skill and some upside. The Nets traded an expiring and a very late first(which isn't useless as some Nets fans suggest) for a contract which doesn't effect them at all and a solid young player with upside. They win.
shit..as long as the Nets/Lakers are the two worst teams in the NBA next year, I am OK with the trade.
is nonsense, but I get it. This is a team in a very, very dark place. They can see the light at the end, but it's so very far away. They need something to hold on to. At least now they can hope Russell improves as a player.
Makes sense for the nets a lot. I'd do it again. But I think for the direction the lakers are going in it makes even more sense. D-lo doesn't really have a fit with Ingram, ball and now potentially George and will very likely cost more than Clarkson. The lakers used D-lo to:
1) Clear cap space for the summer of George
2) get an established veteran. Brook Lopez is the best player they've had on their team for a while. Randle (if kept) is an incredible fit with Lopez. Lopez is transitioning to a stretch 5 player and randle works well on the low block, willing passed to shooters.
3) get an additional pick. Now they have some ammo if they'd want to make a trade for George or to move up in the draft.
to fans of a team that doesnt value culture.
Ask around the league... what do players, agents think about the nets culture post marks, atkinson, and the facility and mentality revamp. Once you finish doing that... come back to me on culture. since you have your views set regardless... there is zero point debating it.
and you clearly dont understand the Moz deal from the nets perspective... if you are treating it as if its a nightmare.
this year the nets lose no cap space by having him... he will also play 20mins a game and contribute... so its not a full sunk cost.
next year they lose cap space, that is frustrating and why they are able to extrant a talent like russell for taking it on.
the third year its an expiring and the player has some use- that following off-season is when the nets should be players again... so it rolls off it time.
It's a good trade for Magic, but bad for the Lakers.
The Lakers didn't add value, they dumped the value to get rid of a player they just signed to a terrible deal. Russell is the value here. The Lakers got 2 late firsts for Russell who is a solid young player with upside.
to fans of a team that doesnt value culture.
Ask around the league... what do players, agents think about the nets culture post marks, atkinson, and the facility and mentality revamp. Once you finish doing that... come back to me on culture. since you have your views set regardless... there is zero point debating it.
and you clearly dont understand the Moz deal from the nets perspective... if you are treating it as if its a nightmare.
this year the nets lose no cap space by having him... he will also play 20mins a game and contribute... so its not a full sunk cost.
next year they lose cap space, that is frustrating and why they are able to extrant a talent like russell for taking it on.
the third year its an expiring and the player has some use- that following off-season is when the nets should be players again... so it rolls off it time.
I value culture. Your posts about culture elevate it to something it's not. Culture in service of itself. If you dont have talent, culture isnt getting anywhere. Losing will destroy culture over time.
In any event, you're trying to flip the script here. I didnt say Mozgov was a disaster. I just rejected your assertion that there was no downside to the trade. You carved out an extreme position, and now you're trying to put words into my mouth so that I have the extreme position and you have the reasonable one. Not buying it buddy.
unless you are just looking for an argument and being emotional.
for the nets and the current set up... according the nets themsevles and almost every person following the nba...there is currently limited downside to taking on a contract to get a talent.
i define the downside as the 2nd year of the Moz contract mostly... VERY EXTREME!!!!
The Mozgov contract is terrible. Utterly terrible. It's only a disaster for the Nets if they had a different use for that money in 1-2 years. Which to some degree is unprovable.
The Mozgov contract is terrible. Utterly terrible. It's only a disaster for the Nets if they had a different use for that money in 1-2 years. Which to some degree is unprovable.
yes the mozgov contract was terrible- and that is why the nets are able to get russell
unless you are just looking for an argument and being emotional.
for the nets and the current set up... according the nets themsevles and almost every person following the nba...there is currently limited downside to taking on a contract to get a talent.
i define the downside as the 2nd year of the Moz contract mostly... VERY EXTREME!!!!
So now there is some downside, which was my point.
Losing the #27 pick is downside. Giving up Lopez in this deal rather than another deal has some downside. And DLo possibly being a douchebag, and being the new central player and face of the franchise (he is) when he play no D, is downside.
As I said, I think on net this is a good trade for the Nets. But the notion that there is no downside is silly. I dont know why fans need to convince themselves of stuff like that.
- Russell despite his off-court headache, played much better in the second half of the season. Still has a lot of potential, even if he's not a true PG (assists, steals), a scoring PG is better than an avg pg.
- Nets weren't going to do better than Russell in the draft and the #27 pick is a marginal player on avg.
- Mozgov signing was so bad, it cost Kupchak his job and they had to relinquish a talent like Russell.
- Upside for Lakers, this frees up cash, Lopez useful albeit injury prone and is an expiring contract. Paves the way for Ball in the draft. But still, hate to have given up on Russell so quickly.
The Lakers didn't add value, they dumped the value to get rid of a player they just signed to a terrible deal. Russell is the value here. The Lakers got 2 late firsts for Russell who is a solid young player with upside.
If you had to estimate D-Lo's value in terms of this years draft, what do you think he gets? I don't think he could buy you a lottery pick in this draft. I think he's worth a mid-to-late first.
So the Lakers essentially mid-1st round pick for Lopez, a salary dump, and a late first round pick. Thats pretty damn good value.
They have no use for D-lo. Hanging onto D-lo for the sake of value is the equivalent of Portland giving $70M to keep Crabbe.
is just speaking loosely- of course there is always some!
Well then we dont disagree. Except on your bullshit appeal to culture as a saving grace. Talent trumps in the NBA. On the margin culture can push one team ahead of another, cause certain teams to under achieve. But a league best quartet of bench clappers isnt doing shit. The teams with the best players consistently win.
RE: RE: It's a good trade for Magic, but bad for the Lakers.
If you had to estimate D-Lo's value in terms of this years draft, what do you think he gets? I don't think he could buy you a lottery pick in this draft. I think he's worth a mid-to-late first.
So the Lakers essentially mid-1st round pick for Lopez, a salary dump, and a late first round pick. Thats pretty damn good value.
They have no use for D-lo. Hanging onto D-lo for the sake of value is the equivalent of Portland giving $70M to keep Crabbe.
DLo is worth a mid lottery IMO. Knicks, Mavs, Sacto picks. Maybe a little higher. Not that he makes sense for each of those teams, but the value in there is fair. Mid #1 would be a steal.
I dont think the Nets took on 3 years and 50 million of Moz to buy a mid #1.
If you had to estimate D-Lo's value in terms of this years draft, what do you think he gets? I don't think he could buy you a lottery pick in this draft. I think he's worth a mid-to-late first.
So the Lakers essentially mid-1st round pick for Lopez, a salary dump, and a late first round pick. Thats pretty damn good value.
They have no use for D-lo. Hanging onto D-lo for the sake of value is the equivalent of Portland giving $70M to keep Crabbe.
DLo is worth a mid lottery IMO. Knicks, Mavs, Sacto picks. Maybe a little higher. Not that he makes sense for each of those teams, but the value in there is fair. Mid #1 would be a steal.
I dont think the Nets took on 3 years and 50 million of Moz to buy a mid #1.
I wouldn't sniff D-lo with the 8 pick. He's a year remove from getting $70+M. Theres more upside and cost control with keeping the 8 pick than settling for Russell.
And I'm saying his value is a mid-to-late first round pick given the contract he will receive next offseason. I think he's a very, very comparable player to Luke Kennard who is projected late lottery. The surrounding factors mark him down a few spots.
around. There were some epic threads discussing his calcium deposits and aversion to rebounding way back when. Did the Lakers really have to do this trade right now? Seems like a Russell/Mozgov salary dump would have been available going forward. Although I heard on a recent Zach Lowe podcast that the Lakers and folks around the league weren't all that high on Russel so maybe they were just looking to cut bait sooner rather than later. Also, typically when a team is attaching an asset to dump a salary, they're just looking to get back an expiring. Brook is obviously more than just an expiring (and might net something good in a trade during the season), so perhaps the Lakers wanted to jump on this quick. For the Nets, their logic in doing this is obvious, but I wonder what kind of assets Lopez would have brought back in a trade without the salary dump.
First of all, it's adorable that you think Knicks fans hate the Nets. We dont care.
Second, my first post in the thread said it was a good trade for the Nets. The post you're responding to was a response to hitdog's statement that the trade has "no downside".
That's utter nonsense. Taking on Moz's contract is a downside. Nets fans may dismiss it today because they rightly dont see BK as a FA destination. Im on record encouraging rebuilding teams to weaponize their useless cap space just like this. But that doesnt mean there is no downside. Just wait, you may be feeling shitty about that deal soon.
The "yawn" on late #1s is a joke. Common refrain, teams not respecting their picks. You dont see SAS yawning at their late #1s.
Lopez's contract is fine. 21 million is not a lot of money, and 30 isnt so old.
I was mostly joking about Russell, but it's worth nothing that hitdog has been screaming culture, culture, culture, and then clams up the minute they trade for an apparantly lazy, no defense guy who is most famous re his NBA time for being snitch.
The whole blase attitude, the yawns, the only seeing the downside to Lopez while dismissing any downside to Moz and Russell -- that is totally, 100% the shit Knicks fans have been doing for years. Oh, it's fine to give up Lopez and Grant for Rose -- worst case we just dont resign him, right? Y'all are falling into the same mental trap.
Fair enough, I did miss your good trade comments. While I agree it isn't a necessarily "no downside", I would say that there is little downside. Don't get me wrong, I love Brooke and appreciate everything he has done as a Net, but he is expiring, not likely to resign in BKN, and not part of their future plans. Sure, there is no certainty Russell pans out, but the potential is worth taking the limited risk. The question is not who will be the better player next year, but who will be in the next 2-5 years. I'll be very surprised if it isn't Russell.
LAL completely misused Russell. Year 1, he handed the ball to Kobe and watched him chuck. Year 2, he had some of the worst perimeter players in the league. He should be running P&R, which he will in BKN. Brooke wasn't a great fit for what Atkinson wants to run, now they can get more athletic at that position. I could not care less about Mozgov. The Nets needed to get to the cap floor anyway, so anything he contributes is a bonus.
Melo stays in NY
Celtics pick 7-15 next year instead of 1-3
Everyone's happy
Sad to say this is truth.
A good pick? #27?
Facts are this
The nets traded an expiring player in Lopez- if they held onto him- they would have the right to pay him 30m a year to keep him.
The nets traded the 27th pick- anpick that yields very few relevant NBA players- but it is an asset so they did give that up
The nets take on the number 2 player in the draft 2 years ago who is 21 and scored 20 a game after the all star break. He also now gets to work with a coach known for player development, point guards in particular.
They have to eat 3 years of mozgov- the contract will be a burden for one year (2018)- and he will get minutes
The deal works for both teams- the nets acquire the best talent they possibly could in russel- who fits- and the lakers dump a bad salary to free space while getting a rental in Lopez who they could also move again before the deadline
+1. No lose deal for the Nets. If Russell pans out, it's an absolute home run. Gotta give Marks credit for finding a way to get a talent like that with limited assets.
Facts are this
The nets traded an expiring player in Lopez- if they held onto him- they would have the right to pay him 30m a year to keep him.
The nets traded the 27th pick- anpick that yields very few relevant NBA players- but it is an asset so they did give that up
The nets take on the number 2 player in the draft 2 years ago who is 21 and scored 20 a game after the all star break. He also now gets to work with a coach known for player development, point guards in particular.
They have to eat 3 years of mozgov- the contract will be a burden for one year (2018)- and he will get minutes
The deal works for both teams- the nets acquire the best talent they possibly could in russel- who fits- and the lakers dump a bad salary to free space while getting a rental in Lopez who they could also move again before the deadline
That wasnt my analysis of the trade. As I said earlier in the thread I thought it was a good trade for the Nets. But the notion that there is no downside is nuts.
I'm not as tuned into to NBA as most who post on NBA threads here, but I'm a little surprised by that, assuming the report is accurate.
Per source, Jimmy Butler has informed Cavs that he wants to stay in Chicago rather than be traded to Cleveland.
Wonder if Butler and Chicago just don't really want to part.
But yeah it also sounds like Butler wants to stay in CHI. I mean if he supposedly didnt even want to go to CLE to play with Lebron then it sounds like he really wants to stay.
Think there's still a very decent chance that with proper coaching and continued improvement on his jumper, DLO still becomes a quality lead guard.
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Shows the suspected weakness in the top of the 2015 draft. While I really like DLo, he hadn't done much to alleviate the concerns over finding his best position, maturing, and the fact he's probably just an OK athlete in a league of elite horses.
Think there's still a very decent chance that with proper coaching and continued improvement on his jumper, DLO still becomes a quality lead guard.
perfect team set up for him to find out. Low pressure developmental situation, motion offense, and a coach known for developing point guards and getting the most out of them. looking forward to seeing how it evolves but they were not getting a player with this upside/potential any other way.
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In comment 13505819 JonC said:
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Shows the suspected weakness in the top of the 2015 draft. While I really like DLo, he hadn't done much to alleviate the concerns over finding his best position, maturing, and the fact he's probably just an OK athlete in a league of elite horses.
Think there's still a very decent chance that with proper coaching and continued improvement on his jumper, DLO still becomes a quality lead guard.
perfect team set up for him to find out. Low pressure developmental situation, motion offense, and a coach known for developing point guards and getting the most out of them. looking forward to seeing how it evolves but they were not getting a player with this upside/potential any other way.
Yea I definitely think there's a shot he turns into something in Brooklyn. Might try to watch a game this winter to see him live.
I think a lot will depend on how good of a shooter he becomes. If he can turn into a great shooter and keep the hollywood passing to a low, he'll be very good. If he remain only a good shooter, then he's capped. His lack of plus athleticism really kills him when driving.
Where did you see they also got a 2nd round pick?
There was a second rumor from David Aldridge last night I really hope isn't true ... Lakers reportedly offered #2 to the Kings for #5 and #10, to flip #5 for PG. No thanks!
Lol. Your team just:
1- gave up the best player in a trade
A player making $21 mill who is an expiring contract, AND will be 30.
Nets have plenty of cap room, and won't be signing quality FA's until they are competitive.
Yawn.
Oh come on. Who cares? I guess it would have been OK if he did drugs or beat his wife, but making a stupid mistake on social media should be a life sentence? And if you felt bad for Nick Young, than you're the idiot, not America.
It is your logic that is bad. The Nets' trade is the EXACT opposite of the Knick transactions. They signed and traded for 2 aging, broken down players with terrible contracts. Russell was the 2nd pick only 2 years ago, is only 21 years old, and is cost-controlled. He certainly has his warts, but there is no reason to think he can't be a good NBA player.
Come on Deej, you're smarter than this. DOn't let your Net hatred cloud your judgement.
It is your logic that is bad. The Nets' trade is the EXACT opposite of the Knick transactions. They signed and traded for 2 aging, broken down players with terrible contracts. Russell was the 2nd pick only 2 years ago, is only 21 years old, and is cost-controlled. He certainly has his warts, but there is no reason to think he can't be a good NBA player.
Come on Deej, you're smarter than this. DOn't let your Net hatred cloud your judgement.
First of all, it's adorable that you think Knicks fans hate the Nets. We dont care.
Second, my first post in the thread said it was a good trade for the Nets. The post you're responding to was a response to hitdog's statement that the trade has "no downside".
That's utter nonsense. Taking on Moz's contract is a downside. Nets fans may dismiss it today because they rightly dont see BK as a FA destination. Im on record encouraging rebuilding teams to weaponize their useless cap space just like this. But that doesnt mean there is no downside. Just wait, you may be feeling shitty about that deal soon.
The "yawn" on late #1s is a joke. Common refrain, teams not respecting their picks. You dont see SAS yawning at their late #1s.
Lopez's contract is fine. 21 million is not a lot of money, and 30 isnt so old.
I was mostly joking about Russell, but it's worth nothing that hitdog has been screaming culture, culture, culture, and then clams up the minute they trade for an apparantly lazy, no defense guy who is most famous re his NBA time for being snitch.
The whole blase attitude, the yawns, the only seeing the downside to Lopez while dismissing any downside to Moz and Russell -- that is totally, 100% the shit Knicks fans have been doing for years. Oh, it's fine to give up Lopez and Grant for Rose -- worst case we just dont resign him, right? Y'all are falling into the same mental trap.
if he is 30 that is different. if the team has no culture... it is different.
lastly... the point on lopez is that to retain him after this year is 30m bux... they werent ever going to do that.
the Moz contract.. doesnt affect this years cap space a penny... it affects next year... yes. the following year he is an expiring.
Lakers needed to dump a prior mistake and traded a player who still has "prospect" value. Russell is still young and while he probably isn't where the Lakers wanted him to be right now, he's still has some skill and some upside. The Nets traded an expiring and a very late first(which isn't useless as some Nets fans suggest) for a contract which doesn't effect them at all and a solid young player with upside. They win.
if he is 30 that is different. if the team has no culture... it is different.
lastly... the point on lopez is that to retain him after this year is 30m bux... they werent ever going to do that.
the Moz contract.. doesnt affect this years cap space a penny... it affects next year... yes. the following year he is an expiring.
I understand culture. Culture is what you tell yourself when your team is terrible and has no future.
Your other points are nonsense. Lopez isnt getting 30 million, and if he was, he'd be a loss for you guys that you could trade for something else. The way you talk a 3 year big $$ deal for Mozgov into one season makes no sense. The days of the whole league valuing expiring contracts is well over. This isnt the annual Theo Ratliff expiring trade asset era anymore. That 3rd year of Moz sucks. The 2nd year sucks. This year sucks. Only question is whether it prevents you from doing something else.
Again, on net I like the deal for BK. I dont LOVE the deal. The notion that there is no possible downside is bonkers, wishful thinking.
Lakers needed to dump a prior mistake and traded a player who still has "prospect" value. Russell is still young and while he probably isn't where the Lakers wanted him to be right now, he's still has some skill and some upside. The Nets traded an expiring and a very late first(which isn't useless as some Nets fans suggest) for a contract which doesn't effect them at all and a solid young player with upside. They win.
shit..as long as the Nets/Lakers are the two worst teams in the NBA next year, I am OK with the trade.
1) Clear cap space for the summer of George
2) get an established veteran. Brook Lopez is the best player they've had on their team for a while. Randle (if kept) is an incredible fit with Lopez. Lopez is transitioning to a stretch 5 player and randle works well on the low block, willing passed to shooters.
3) get an additional pick. Now they have some ammo if they'd want to make a trade for George or to move up in the draft.
Ask around the league... what do players, agents think about the nets culture post marks, atkinson, and the facility and mentality revamp. Once you finish doing that... come back to me on culture. since you have your views set regardless... there is zero point debating it.
and you clearly dont understand the Moz deal from the nets perspective... if you are treating it as if its a nightmare.
this year the nets lose no cap space by having him... he will also play 20mins a game and contribute... so its not a full sunk cost.
next year they lose cap space, that is frustrating and why they are able to extrant a talent like russell for taking it on.
the third year its an expiring and the player has some use- that following off-season is when the nets should be players again... so it rolls off it time.
Ask around the league... what do players, agents think about the nets culture post marks, atkinson, and the facility and mentality revamp. Once you finish doing that... come back to me on culture. since you have your views set regardless... there is zero point debating it.
and you clearly dont understand the Moz deal from the nets perspective... if you are treating it as if its a nightmare.
this year the nets lose no cap space by having him... he will also play 20mins a game and contribute... so its not a full sunk cost.
next year they lose cap space, that is frustrating and why they are able to extrant a talent like russell for taking it on.
the third year its an expiring and the player has some use- that following off-season is when the nets should be players again... so it rolls off it time.
I value culture. Your posts about culture elevate it to something it's not. Culture in service of itself. If you dont have talent, culture isnt getting anywhere. Losing will destroy culture over time.
In any event, you're trying to flip the script here. I didnt say Mozgov was a disaster. I just rejected your assertion that there was no downside to the trade. You carved out an extreme position, and now you're trying to put words into my mouth so that I have the extreme position and you have the reasonable one. Not buying it buddy.
for the nets and the current set up... according the nets themsevles and almost every person following the nba...there is currently limited downside to taking on a contract to get a talent.
i define the downside as the 2nd year of the Moz contract mostly... VERY EXTREME!!!!
yes the mozgov contract was terrible- and that is why the nets are able to get russell
for the nets and the current set up... according the nets themsevles and almost every person following the nba...there is currently limited downside to taking on a contract to get a talent.
i define the downside as the 2nd year of the Moz contract mostly... VERY EXTREME!!!!
So now there is some downside, which was my point.
Losing the #27 pick is downside. Giving up Lopez in this deal rather than another deal has some downside. And DLo possibly being a douchebag, and being the new central player and face of the franchise (he is) when he play no D, is downside.
As I said, I think on net this is a good trade for the Nets. But the notion that there is no downside is silly. I dont know why fans need to convince themselves of stuff like that.
- Russell despite his off-court headache, played much better in the second half of the season. Still has a lot of potential, even if he's not a true PG (assists, steals), a scoring PG is better than an avg pg.
- Nets weren't going to do better than Russell in the draft and the #27 pick is a marginal player on avg.
- Mozgov signing was so bad, it cost Kupchak his job and they had to relinquish a talent like Russell.
- Upside for Lakers, this frees up cash, Lopez useful albeit injury prone and is an expiring contract. Paves the way for Ball in the draft. But still, hate to have given up on Russell so quickly.
If you had to estimate D-Lo's value in terms of this years draft, what do you think he gets? I don't think he could buy you a lottery pick in this draft. I think he's worth a mid-to-late first.
So the Lakers essentially mid-1st round pick for Lopez, a salary dump, and a late first round pick. Thats pretty damn good value.
They have no use for D-lo. Hanging onto D-lo for the sake of value is the equivalent of Portland giving $70M to keep Crabbe.
Well then we dont disagree. Except on your bullshit appeal to culture as a saving grace. Talent trumps in the NBA. On the margin culture can push one team ahead of another, cause certain teams to under achieve. But a league best quartet of bench clappers isnt doing shit. The teams with the best players consistently win.
If you had to estimate D-Lo's value in terms of this years draft, what do you think he gets? I don't think he could buy you a lottery pick in this draft. I think he's worth a mid-to-late first.
So the Lakers essentially mid-1st round pick for Lopez, a salary dump, and a late first round pick. Thats pretty damn good value.
They have no use for D-lo. Hanging onto D-lo for the sake of value is the equivalent of Portland giving $70M to keep Crabbe.
DLo is worth a mid lottery IMO. Knicks, Mavs, Sacto picks. Maybe a little higher. Not that he makes sense for each of those teams, but the value in there is fair. Mid #1 would be a steal.
I dont think the Nets took on 3 years and 50 million of Moz to buy a mid #1.
Quote:
If you had to estimate D-Lo's value in terms of this years draft, what do you think he gets? I don't think he could buy you a lottery pick in this draft. I think he's worth a mid-to-late first.
So the Lakers essentially mid-1st round pick for Lopez, a salary dump, and a late first round pick. Thats pretty damn good value.
They have no use for D-lo. Hanging onto D-lo for the sake of value is the equivalent of Portland giving $70M to keep Crabbe.
DLo is worth a mid lottery IMO. Knicks, Mavs, Sacto picks. Maybe a little higher. Not that he makes sense for each of those teams, but the value in there is fair. Mid #1 would be a steal.
I dont think the Nets took on 3 years and 50 million of Moz to buy a mid #1.
I wouldn't sniff D-lo with the 8 pick. He's a year remove from getting $70+M. Theres more upside and cost control with keeping the 8 pick than settling for Russell.
And I'm saying his value is a mid-to-late first round pick given the contract he will receive next offseason. I think he's a very, very comparable player to Luke Kennard who is projected late lottery. The surrounding factors mark him down a few spots.
First of all, it's adorable that you think Knicks fans hate the Nets. We dont care.
Second, my first post in the thread said it was a good trade for the Nets. The post you're responding to was a response to hitdog's statement that the trade has "no downside".
That's utter nonsense. Taking on Moz's contract is a downside. Nets fans may dismiss it today because they rightly dont see BK as a FA destination. Im on record encouraging rebuilding teams to weaponize their useless cap space just like this. But that doesnt mean there is no downside. Just wait, you may be feeling shitty about that deal soon.
The "yawn" on late #1s is a joke. Common refrain, teams not respecting their picks. You dont see SAS yawning at their late #1s.
Lopez's contract is fine. 21 million is not a lot of money, and 30 isnt so old.
I was mostly joking about Russell, but it's worth nothing that hitdog has been screaming culture, culture, culture, and then clams up the minute they trade for an apparantly lazy, no defense guy who is most famous re his NBA time for being snitch.
The whole blase attitude, the yawns, the only seeing the downside to Lopez while dismissing any downside to Moz and Russell -- that is totally, 100% the shit Knicks fans have been doing for years. Oh, it's fine to give up Lopez and Grant for Rose -- worst case we just dont resign him, right? Y'all are falling into the same mental trap.
Fair enough, I did miss your good trade comments. While I agree it isn't a necessarily "no downside", I would say that there is little downside. Don't get me wrong, I love Brooke and appreciate everything he has done as a Net, but he is expiring, not likely to resign in BKN, and not part of their future plans. Sure, there is no certainty Russell pans out, but the potential is worth taking the limited risk. The question is not who will be the better player next year, but who will be in the next 2-5 years. I'll be very surprised if it isn't Russell.
LAL completely misused Russell. Year 1, he handed the ball to Kobe and watched him chuck. Year 2, he had some of the worst perimeter players in the league. He should be running P&R, which he will in BKN. Brooke wasn't a great fit for what Atkinson wants to run, now they can get more athletic at that position. I could not care less about Mozgov. The Nets needed to get to the cap floor anyway, so anything he contributes is a bonus.