NFT: Knicks Chat: KP is staying, F the rumors

I certainly understand the perception of Derrick Rose and I also understand his history. I think the likelihood if getting him on a 1 year 6-8M deal is low. I am not sure what his knee looks like, that's also very concerning to me. I'd make sure my doctors are looking at the MRI's very closely and it shows no more structural damage. His knee injury is one that you can come back very quickly from and be 100%, it just means that his career will be shortened on the back end. I would make sure he understands that his role will be as the 6th man and he would need to fully embrace that. Having said all of that...

I believe that Rose has an elite skill which is very valuable in the NBA. I agree that Rose doesn't work well with KP, but as the 6th man, those minutes together would be very limited and they did play well in short doses at points when Rose would come in and Melo would go out. I also understand that Rose went MIA, I would have suspended him, but there must be more to the situation than we know. The Knicks seem to look at Rose favorably, even though his public image is one of a guy that doesn't seem to care. Either way, it's not something I can't get past. I understand that his defense lacked last year, but I put that on the mental approach. Early in the season, I think his defense was solid, but as the season slipped away, his frustration kicked in. Again, I think there was more to that.

I think Rose can have some success as the 6th man and have some trade value. Rose has thrived in the past when he was the scorer and he had good role players around him. What is the risk as the 6th man on a 1 year deal? Fans feelings on players shouldn't matter.

Melo on the other hand does not have an elite skill anymore. I think he's a decent spot up shooter now at best, but the majority of his shots are coming from further and further away. Sure he can have that 1 great shooting game every 5 games, but the other 4 games he's hurting us because he stops the offense and doesn't play on defense. He can't and doesn't get to the rim anymore. All of his shots are from long range and I'd guess the defense has a much higher % of getting those rebounds. He cannot succeed as the 2nd fiddle to KP without a PG that can distribute very well.

I think Rose takes better shots. I think Rose's scoring ability is better, I think Rose as the 6th man fits better. I think Rose might net you something decent. Melo's value has consistently gone down with his game. He has not been the same player since the knee injury and he's not a guy that really busts it to be great. He's never in great shape, he saves his energy for when the ball is in his hands and he's only getting older. I wouldn't just buy Melo out, but I'd take back almost anything that doesn't hurt us. I'm not sure what that is though.

In comment 13505992 bceagle05 said:

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I think they're trying to force a buyout. Stephen A. Smith said talked buyout yesterday, but I didn't want to bring it up because it's, well, Stephen A. Smith.

if he is willing to take a step back and let kp be the number 1 option i am good with melo staying but if he thinks he is still the number 1 option then take a fucking hike

opts in. I'm semi-surprised. 1 year 17.88, I know he's a "flawed" player but what he does, he does very, very well.

and a future second gets a pick from PHI. Although i guess we dont have many future seconds. Maybe they want a second in 2025

then why will that change? Has anyone heard any connection to Melo other than teams saying they aren't interested? Maybe when the good players all find new homes there will be someone interested, but I can't see us getting much at all. I don't see that changing next season as Melo's game will not get better.

thats one thing, but if he is going back to blocking any trade thats not LAC or CLE or whatever in hopes that we are forced to buy him out that would really piss me off. Id rather the knicks keep him next year just to spite him if that was the case. Im not saying it is, but that would be my feeling on it if that turned out to be true.

Not that it's his fault, but another year of Phil/Melo shit will only alienate KP even more and hold the entire franchise back. I know it's bad business, but just get rid of him by any means necessary.

In comment 13505999 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13505992 bceagle05 said: Quote: I think they're trying to force a buyout. Stephen A. Smith said talked buyout yesterday, but I didn't want to bring it up because it's, well, Stephen A. Smith. if he is willing to take a step back and let kp be the number 1 option i am good with melo staying but if he thinks he is still the number 1 option then take a fucking hike

What does this mean though? Take a step back and do what? All of a sudden move the ball when he has it. What about Melo makes you think he's capable of that?

then Melo would work a lot better. I really hope we end up with Rubio somehow.

has always been to bring him off the bench. A reporter mentioned that possibility to him at the end of the season and he laughed it off. His ego will never allow it. If we're serious about getting him to leave, we should play that card.

In comment 13506006 Keith said:

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then why will that change? Has anyone heard any connection to Melo other than teams saying they aren't interested? Maybe when the good players all find new homes there will be someone interested, but I can't see us getting much at all. I don't see that changing next season as Melo's game will not get better.

The hope is that George will end on team X, Butler will either stay in Chicago or land on team Y and these other teams will move on to plan B. We "know" the Lakers, Clippers, Wizards, Cavs, Warriors and Rockets have spoken to the Pacers. We "know" the Lakers, Cavs and Celtics have spoken to the Bulls (I assume the Celtics have spoken to Indiana as well but I haven't seen that). Hopefully one of these teams decides Melo is an option on a plan B.

got a 1 sentence e-mail from my friend.

"Clippers are freaking out. Pau's opt out has them spooked"



Could have a huge impact. Presumably Griffin would leave too. They might as well deal Jordan.

Only player in the HISTORY OF THE NBA to score 2000 pts, 1000 rebounds, 250 blocks and 100 made three's in his first two years. That's history of the NBA. That's a Unicorn. So Booker and #4 doesn't scratch the surface in my book.

and they dont have a damn thing to give us. Paul would prolly stay if they got melo (considering how much more they could pay him). Clippers could go from borderline contender to bottom 5 in the league in one offseason.

Dan

pau opting out in SA is what that is referenced in Dan's post, but his opt out could be directly tied to them making a run at Paul.

and things shake out as you say.

1. I do not see Houston being interested in Melo at all. Melo/D'Antoni won't happen again, IMO.

2. I can't see Melo leaving unless it's an ideal personal situation. That's either on one of the best teams or one of his friends teams. Bye bye Wiz, bye bye Lakers(I can't see them being interested in melo anyway).

3. Clippers? I can see them being interested. I know you love Rivers, that should be a solid haul.

4. Cavs? This is my darkhorse. I can see the Cavs going for Melo in a 3 way in which Love goes elsewhere, the major pieces and Melo go back to the Cavs. Knicks get the scraps.

5. Celtics? We need to hope they get shut out with the good players, but even then, I can't see it.

In comment 13506024 Carl in CT said:

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Dan

I think Pau's opt out gives SA the money to give CP3 a max offer (or at least a lot closer to it)

In comment 13506023 Italianju said:

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and they dont have a damn thing to give us. Paul would prolly stay if they got melo (considering how much more they could pay him). Clippers could go from borderline contender to bottom 5 in the league in one offseason.

When you say borderline contender, are you really saying that they are a playoff team that will lose in the 1st or 2nd round? They should break it up.

gotcha

Sindarius Thornwell of South Carolina
John Motley of Baylor
Tony Bradley of UNC
Frank Jackson of Duke
Tyler Dorsey of Oregon
Derrick White of Colorado
Edmond Sumner of Xavier
PJ Dozier of South Carolina

id consider a team that can get to the second round a borderline contender in todays NBA. And im sure the clippers would rather keep their star and get knocked out in the second round as opposed to losing him and prolly griffin and winning 18 games. I agree they should probably break it up, but i dont think NBA owners or even FO people think championship or bust. If they do then 28 teams should go into rebuild mode.

In comment 13506030 Keith said:

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and things shake out as you say. 1. I do not see Houston being interested in Melo at all. Melo/D'Antoni won't happen again, IMO. 2. I can't see Melo leaving unless it's an ideal personal situation. That's either on one of the best teams or one of his friends teams. Bye bye Wiz, bye bye Lakers(I can't see them being interested in melo anyway). 3. Clippers? I can see them being interested. I know you love Rivers, that should be a solid haul. 4. Cavs? This is my darkhorse. I can see the Cavs going for Melo in a 3 way in which Love goes elsewhere, the major pieces and Melo go back to the Cavs. Knicks get the scraps. 5. Celtics? We need to hope they get shut out with the good players, but even then, I can't see it.

Billups is the favorite for the Cavs job. Billups has repeatedly said the Cavs should trade Love for Melo. I think a 3 way deal involving the Cavs/Knicks and a team that wants Love (Suns are one such team) would be the best realistic outcome. #AustinRiversIsGarbage

sorry I didn't see the above. My friend is saying word is the Clippers are nervous about Paul leaving and Pau Gasol opting out (for the expressed reason of helping the Spurs add cap room) has them really concerned.

that has to be our dream scenario. A 3 team deal with love would turn out great for us. We would at least get some useful pieces.

In comment 13506044 DanMetroMan said:

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sorry I didn't see the above. My friend is saying word is the Clippers are nervous about Paul leaving and Pau Gasol opting out (for the expressed reason of helping the Spurs add cap room) has them really concerned.

I think Paul on the Spurs makes them a tough out for GSW. Healthy Spurs with focused D are dangerous.

the disdain for him because he's a 1 or 2 dimensional player rather than a complete superstar in his prime is just irrational. He is a net positive on this team by a healthy margin. Rip the bandaid off? He's one of our best players.

News flash: half the league sucks at defense.

Suns were reportedly willing to give up the #4 pick for Love before Griffin was fired. I'm obviously not expecting the #4 pick for Melo but I really think the Cavs/Love/Billips 3 way deal situation is the one we most realistically should be eyeing.

- Lebron gets his BFF Melo
-Lebron and Melo finally get to play together and can both bounce if it doesn't work out
-Melo presumably says yes to Cleveland
-Love presumably has enough suitors where we would get something decent for him. Even if part of the "return" for Love ended up in Cleveland I still think we would end up with the best possible situation.

In comment 13506041 Italianju said:

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id consider a team that can get to the second round a borderline contender in todays NBA. And im sure the clippers would rather keep their star and get knocked out in the second round as opposed to losing him and prolly griffin and winning 18 games. I agree they should probably break it up, but i dont think NBA owners or even FO people think championship or bust. If they do then 28 teams should go into rebuild mode.

I don't disagree with your overall point, but not this Clippers team which would include most players past their prime. It's a team that was knocked out in the 1st round 2 years in a row with older players going in the wrong direction. There is no upside with young players or even picks in the near future. This is a team that has to blow it up, IMO.

They could always use him to come off the bench to add some scoring if needed. I wonder how quick he would agree to a trade if that would happen?

cause id really like that 4th pick, haha.

the Knicks are getting the scraps. Who knows, maybe Billups will be like Isiah and do something outrageous.

The guy is an asset. You don't just release assets. Whats the harm in having him? Eventually he'll be dealt. Once the game of star musical chairs stops going around some team will be left without a chair and come calling to give us something. Even if its the Clippers and their lousy future #1's that's better than just releasing him.

but he moves to the bench, IMO. If you can't move Melo(again, I'd take anything that doesn't hurt us), I wouldn't consider Rose. Melo would be the 6th man.

to Cleveland, Love to the Suns, Knicks get Suns 2nd round pick, Toronto's second round pick, 2018 pick from Miami (Suns own it), 2018 2nd rounder from Toronto (Suns own it) and the Cavs 2021 or 2023 1st rounder (Knicks pick)

-Cavs:Melo
- Suns:Love

-Knicks: 32nd overall in 2017, #54 in 2017, 2018 first from Miami, 2018 2nd from Toronto and an additional first from Cleveland

So the Knicks would be receiving 2 first round picks, 3 2nd round picks and would have picks 8, 32, 44, 54 and 58 this year

they desperately need a distributing PG. I would like that to be a young player who can grow with KP, I hope that guy comes to us in the draft.

for Melo? Am I reading that right?

Rubio or Sergio Rodriguez

That would be a terrible trade for the Suns, IMO.

sense with chriss? And potentially Isaac now?

In comment 13506087 giantsfan44ab said:

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sense with chriss? And potentially Isaac now?

Don't ask me, the Suns according to David Aldridge were "heavily engaged" in Love for #4 talks before Griffin was fired. (#4 would have moved on for George or Butler).

In comment 13506079 Keith said:

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for Melo? Am I reading that right?

And the Suns, who someone posted would give #4 for Love, instead get him for the Miami 2018 pick and some #2s. Doesnt make any sense.

Also, I'd be wary of any trade asking the Cavs to give future #1s. I believe they are very much gonna hedge their bets re LeBron leaving again, soon.

claims the deal was agreed to pending the Cavs being able to spin the pick for PG13/Butler but were unable to.

"During David Griffin's final hours as general manager of the Cleveland Cavaliers, he found a team in the lottery willing to trade for Kevin Love in exchange for their lottery pick.

Griffin was shopping that lottery pick in hopes of trading for either Jimmy Butler or Paul George.

According to sources, that team was the Phoenix Suns at No. 4."

shopping Jordan.

Jackson rejected an invite from the Celtics. Kind of weird.

sign me up. I'd do that in a second. I'm not sure we'd get the Miami first though.

he is a solid player, but he is going to be pretty limited if he goes to a team without a distributing PG like Paul.

they'd have something to give for Melo. That would be a terrible move for them, but if they are trying to stay relevant...

would make alot more sense than Love.

The Clippers are hoping to get younger and have discussed a trade with the Phoenix Suns for the No. 4 pick and Tyson Chandler. Phoenix is believed to not be interested in the trade scenario.

-Chris Haynes


#4 for Jordan and Chandler is an awful deal. Awful