NFT: Knicks Chat: KP is staying, F the rumors

Ian Begley‏ @IanBegley 20m20 minutes ago
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Josh Hart, Davon Reed, Naz Long scheduled to workout for NYK today along w/Donovan Mitchell. More:
http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0669191914334983933-4 �

In comment 13506105 DanMetroMan said:

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The Clippers are hoping to get younger and have discussed a trade with the Phoenix Suns for the No. 4 pick and Tyson Chandler. Phoenix is believed to not be interested in the trade scenario. -Chris Haynes #4 for Jordan and Chandler is an awful deal. Awful

Could get the deal done with some combo of the Miami pick, Warren, Bender, or Ulis.

In comment 13506105 DanMetroMan said:

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The Clippers are hoping to get younger and have discussed a trade with the Phoenix Suns for the No. 4 pick and Tyson Chandler. Phoenix is believed to not be interested in the trade scenario. -Chris Haynes #4 for Jordan and Chandler is an awful deal. Awful

lmao

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Link - ( New Window )

Love to PHX, Melo to Cavs and #4 and Knight and Dudley to NY? Where do we sign?

the Knicks have told Frenchy he's the pick. No idea the origin of the rumor but he is now following KP/Willy on instagram.

In comment 13506124 DanMetroMan said:

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the Knicks have told Frenchy he's the pick. No idea the origin of the rumor but he is now following KP/Willy on instagram.

That would be horrendous.

how front offices allow leaks of info like who they are targeting (unless its misdirection)

In comment 13506098 DanMetroMan said:

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Jackson rejected an invite from the Celtics. Kind of weird.

maybe he sees himself playing the same position as brown?

Now Please Dallas trade to 7 and take him!

In comment 13506124 DanMetroMan said:

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the Knicks have told Frenchy he's the pick. No idea the origin of the rumor but he is now following KP/Willy on instagram.

Woohooo....or something.

In comment 13506135 bceagle05 said:

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In comment 13506124 DanMetroMan said: Quote: the Knicks have told Frenchy he's the pick. No idea the origin of the rumor but he is now following KP/Willy on instagram. Woohooo....or something.

In Clarence, we trust?

He's what, 18 years old? Have fun next year, especially if Melo's still around, along with Phil, Hornacek and Rambis. It'll be even more dysfunctional.

In comment 13506124 DanMetroMan said:

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the Knicks have told Frenchy he's the pick. No idea the origin of the rumor but he is now following KP/Willy on instagram.

started by a guy on twitter called joey poppas, he is an mtv douchebag, who claims to have sources

to give a guarantee to a guy like him. I mean what if jackson or tatum or fox falls? Im not saying they will, but you never know.

if DSJ or Monk averages 16+ and this kid doesn't leave the bench how this place will go crazy on Phil.

and he was supposed to go around 5 so it could happen.

In comment 13506146 Italianju said:

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to give a guarantee to a guy like him. I mean what if jackson or tatum or fox falls? Im not saying they will, but you never know.

It might be different in the NBA but a few years back the Mets had a verbal agreement with Jay Bruce, then Mike Pelfrey fell and they "reneged" on the Bruce agreement. I'm sure these guarantees come with the knowledge it's not a "true" guarantee.

In comment 13506092 DanMetroMan said:

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claims the deal was agreed to pending the Cavs being able to spin the pick for PG13/Butler but were unable to. "During David Griffin's final hours as general manager of the Cleveland Cavaliers, he found a team in the lottery willing to trade for Kevin Love in exchange for their lottery pick. Griffin was shopping that lottery pick in hopes of trading for either Jimmy Butler or Paul George According to sources, that team was the Phoenix Suns at No. 4."

I'm not buying this from Windhorst. So the Cavs had the 4th overall pick offered for PG13 and the Pacers said no? Unless the Lakers panic and give up #2 , the Pacers aren't see anything close this value for Paul George.

I know some people think that's a bad move from the Suns but I actually really like it for them. I think Love fits very nicely for them.

lazy to find the origin but there was a report the Celtics turned down #3 for Butler.

In comment 13506146 Italianju said:

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to give a guarantee to a guy like him. I mean what if jackson or tatum or fox falls? Im not saying they will, but you never know.

remember when the knicms were guaranteed to take winslow...

shit i had source who was close to mudiay who basocally told me knicks told him they were picking him and have been contact every day

In comment 13506159 TyreeHelmet said:

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In comment 13506092 DanMetroMan said: Quote: claims the deal was agreed to pending the Cavs being able to spin the pick for PG13/Butler but were unable to. "During David Griffin's final hours as general manager of the Cleveland Cavaliers, he found a team in the lottery willing to trade for Kevin Love in exchange for their lottery pick. Griffin was shopping that lottery pick in hopes of trading for either Jimmy Butler or Paul George According to sources, that team was the Phoenix Suns at No. 4." I'm not buying this from Windhorst. So the Cavs had the 4th overall pick offered for PG13 and the Pacers said no? Unless the Lakers panic and give up #2 , the Pacers aren't see anything close this value for Paul George. I know some people think that's a bad move from the Suns but I actually really like it for them. I think Love fits very nicely for them.

How? They get an older player at the same position as one of their "pieces" (maybe 2 if they draft Isaac) to get the 7,8,9 seed and go home round 1? Suns are one of the promising young teams, why give that up to give up and fail right now?

Knicks fans love to bash the media but this piece is from @MikeVacc sums everything up perfectly for me. I think he nails it.
Link - ( New Window )

for a long, long time.

In comment 13506185 DanMetroMan said:

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Knicks fans love to bash the media but this piece is from @MikeVacc sums everything up perfectly for me. I think he nails it. Link - ( New Window )

Interesting. I agree with a few of the assessments, basically the most virulently anti-Phil ones (his track record and the overall shit show atmosphere). But

Sandy Alderson lied his fucking ass off to fans at every turn for those post Madoff years. It is not contestable. Lets not hold him out as a positive example.

And on KP, maybe Im an apologist, but I dont get it. He skipped the meeting in protest. He didnt blow it off lik a kid who overslept (or this is the narrative we all accept, right?). Why isnt that an acceptable form of protest? Phil was gonna spout some triangle garbage to him that he's already heard. No one outside that room would get his frustration level (including Dolan). Worse I think would be KP asking for a meeting with Dolan, no?

And likening KP to a "working stiff who answers to a boss" misses the point. KP is a singular talent. All NBA players are, but he in particular is, as noted by guys like KD calling him a unicorn. Life isnt fair -- the same rules dont apply to unique or rare and valuable talents. The power dynamic is different. The employer of a file room clerk at a 1000 lawyer isnt in the same relationship as KP has with NY, and people who pretend that the same dynamics exist are fools. Putting aside for the moment that (1) he has a contract, and cant be fired, and (2) if he was fired and cast into the free market for his services (as would happen to a working stiff), his salary would increase by a factor of 5-8 immediately, and he'd have his choice of employer in the industry.

employs both Vaccaro and Berman.

I get and appreciate that he Vaccaro rightly called out Phil and why we dont trust him. But the vehicle was lazy IMO. It's like the articles where one political party is doing something ridiculous, and somehow the article manages to squeeze out a conclusion that "both sides do it".

Vaccaro went out of his way with a lot of words to say KP was wrong. But why? Every Knicks fan was furious last season. Ownership, management, coaches, players -- each failed. Team was a total shitshow. KP acknowledges that with a small, not very material protest, and he's condemned. "Unprofessional" says Anak. Not what a working stiff would do, says Vaccaro.

It's not the same. There was no need to spend that much time on KP in the article. Even if you expressly say, "Im not equating it", you in many ways are.

for Griffin to be leaking this stuff and perhaps slightly exaggerate just how close he was to pulling off a mega deal that would have improved the Cavs...just before the rug was pulled out from under him.

the point is if Phil Jackson's rings came as a GM most fans (myself included) would have far less "issue" with him handling potentially trading KP instead the beginning of his tenure has gone horrendously so we have no reason to feel confident in him. It's not as if he's made multiple good trades or moves with the Knicks were it should be #TrustPhil whereas the Spurs could draft some player from Bulgaria not even listed on DX and most would feel #TrustBuford

In comment 13506226 DanMetroMan said:

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the point is if Phil Jackson's rings came as a GM most fans (myself included) would have far less "issue" with him handling potentially trading KP instead the beginning of his tenure has gone horrendously so we have no reason to feel confident in him. It's not as if he's made multiple good trades or moves with the Knicks were it should be #TrustPhil whereas the Spurs could draft some player from Bulgaria not even listed on DX and most would feel #TrustBuford

I get that, but paragraphs 1, 2, and 4 are criticisms of KP. Setting up Phil by taking a shit on KP is literally a conceit of how the article is written. Crap on KP for a bit and pivot to Phil with, literally, a "That said �" segue. That's my problem with the article.

KP SHOULD have skipped that meeting. I like that he cared enough to do so, rather than just accept the shit show that was the 2016-17 NY Knicks (and frankly, the entire Phil Jackson in NY era). Phil has run the franchise to the ground and embarrassed it. You dont need a 200 word lede criticizing KP to get to that point.

In comment 13506185 DanMetroMan said:

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Knicks fans love to bash the media but this piece is from @MikeVacc sums everything up perfectly for me. I think he nails it. Link - ( New Window )

Excellent, but seems as if he was on a word limit cuz too much of the last third was spent on the Alderson digression, which imo undercut the savage roasting of Phil.

that athletes, especially young athletes, are property to be molded and whipped into shape, and need to fall in line with the whims of ownership-coaching, and it's kinda gross. We don't ride coaching and front offices with nearly the same paternal brow-beating.

The Knicks are an atrocity. They have bungled and mismanaged everything for coming-on two decades. They don't deserve the "do as we say" level of respect that the Spurs or Patriots have earned. More specific to that article, Phil Jackson has repeatedly shown himself to be distantly out of touch with the current model of the NBA. Why should anyone give him the benefit of the doubt at this point?

this fan hysteria driven by the Media over reporting is a product of the Knicks treating the Media poorly. I'm positive if the Knick PR department treated the Media properly, a non story like this would stay a non story.
What exactly are the Knicks doing wrong here? I'd be more upset if they weren't willing to at least listen to offers on. Porzingis isn't one of the few "untradeable" players in the league.

The only real story here is the discord between Porzingis and the franchise, and we all know winning or progress would easily cure that.

In comment 13506266 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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that athletes, especially young athletes, are property to be molded and whipped into shape, and need to fall in line with the whims of ownership-coaching, and it's kinda gross. We don't ride coaching and front offices with nearly the same paternal brow-beating. The Knicks are an atrocity. They have bungled and mismanaged everything for coming-on two decades. They don't deserve the "do as we say" level of respect that the Spurs or Patriots have earned. More specific to that article, Phil Jackson has repeatedly shown himself to be distantly out of touch with the current model of the NBA. Why should anyone give him the benefit of the doubt at this point?

Very good post.

yup, and a Vaccaro put it very well, why would any player worth trading/drafting for, and especially any young player, invest his belief, his reputation, his dedication with Phil Jackson, for Phil Jackson? He throws his own players under the bus, trashes them in public, executes trades that make no sense and is willing to leave it all in a dumpster fire and then, during the season, hides from public accountability.

Clay Travis thinks the Cavs should trade Lebron to the Lakers for 2,27,28. I know this guys whole act is to be outrageous and wants clicks, but that's the dumbest thing I've ever read.

What's the latest rumblings on the Knicks pick? Any chance it's not Frank N?

In comment 13506266 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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that athletes, especially young athletes, are property to be molded and whipped into shape, and need to fall in line with the whims of ownership-coaching, and it's kinda gross. We don't ride coaching and front offices with nearly the same paternal brow-beating. The Knicks are an atrocity. They have bungled and mismanaged everything for coming-on two decades. They don't deserve the "do as we say" level of respect that the Spurs or Patriots have earned. More specific to that article, Phil Jackson has repeatedly shown himself to be distantly out of touch with the current model of the NBA. Why should anyone give him the benefit of the doubt at this point?

This is post is dead on.
The way they have treated every good player for the last 20 years is a disgrace.
Why any player would want to play for this team is beyond me.
Until Dolan dies or truly give up control this team will continue to break our collective hearts.

In comment 13506185 DanMetroMan said:

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Knicks fans love to bash the media but this piece is from @MikeVacc sums everything up perfectly for me. I think he nails it. Link - ( New Window )

I think that is an excellent article. He legitimately and fairly criticizes Phil, but he doesn't pretend KP is an untouchable angel either.

In comment 13506284 TyreeHelmet said:

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Clay Travis thinks the Cavs should trade Lebron to the Lakers for 2,27,28. I know this guys whole act is to be outrageous and wants clicks, but that's the dumbest thing I've ever read. What's the latest rumblings on the Knicks pick? Any chance it's not Frank N?

Isn't LEbron a FA and always have a NTC??

mavs may have deal with twolves to move up to 7 to take frank

In comment 13506316 nygiants16 said:

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mavs may have deal with twolves to move up to 7 to take frank

Really hope that happens.

In comment 13506316 nygiants16 said:

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mavs may have deal with twolves to move up to 7 to take frank

Great news.

Monk!

Phil isn't trying to trade KP. KP wants Phil out.

.

In comment 13506316 nygiants16 said:

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mavs may have deal with twolves to move up to 7 to take frank

I can see Phil giving Thibs Courtney Lee to swap picks, outrage ensues.

Ian Begley‏ @IanBegley 5m5 minutes ago
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Dennis Smith says he enjoyed meeting with the Knicks and Phil Jackson and thinks he can thrive in the triangle offense.

of Monk or Smith (if Frank's gone).

make it to 8. Assuming they take Frank, that is.

Works for me.

Smith. Huge upside and loved reading how much video he watches/how in-tune he was with specific aspects of the triangle and Lakers offenses (the quotes came post meeting with both).