-Begley doesn't believe KP will actually be traded, asking price is "monstrous"
- KP has an E:60 coming up that touches on his issues with the Knicks but it sounds like he basically "no comments" direct details
-Lakers apparently talking to every team in the league. Thought they had a deal for 5 and 12 for #2, Kings balked
Would love to grab the 15th pick.
Works for me.
If Frank goes 7, at least two of Smith, Monk, Isaac, Fox, Tatum, and Jackson make it to our pick (and I've put them in the order I think they're most likely to be available to us). We still might not take one of them.
Im fine with any of those 8 or Frank, I think. I know less about Mitchell, so Im not revolted by the idea of him. But he's also on the short side, albeit with better reach than Monk.
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But it ain't going to happen. I doubt Dolan would sign off on it. The Knicks are going to be terrible this year regardless and Dolan's primary concern is MSG. He is not dumping his one marketable commodity.
Also, Phil has not lived up to the hype. I don't think Dolan would have any problem dumping him if it came down to a showdown between KP and Phil. And I think KP knows that and that is why he has no fear of Phil.
"I was talking to one of our players the other day, a free agent, and we were looking at our options. And it used to be, 'Yeah, get me to New York.' Even when they were struggling, there are guys who want to be in the city. But he was saying, 'no, no, not that environment, not now.' They're not just alienating their own players, they're alienating all players. They're making things hard on themselves there."
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Knicks have the cap space to absorb some of those guys - but the thought of Phil trading with Morey is terrifying.
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make it to 8. Assuming they take Frank, that is.
Works for me.
If Frank goes 7, at least two of Smith, Monk, Isaac, Fox, Tatum, and Jackson make it to our pick (and I've put them in the order I think they're most likely to be available to us). We still might not take one of them.
Im fine with any of those 8 or Frank, I think. I know less about Mitchell, so Im not revolted by the idea of him. But he's also on the short side, albeit with better reach than Monk.
Yeah, I didn't mean all of them would be there. It would be a good scenario for me if the Mavs take Frank. He could be great, I don't know. But I like all of those 4 more than him.
"I was talking to one of our players the other day, a free agent, and we were looking at our options. And it used to be, 'Yeah, get me to New York.' Even when they were struggling, there are guys who want to be in the city. But he was saying, 'no, no, not that environment, not now.' They're not just alienating their own players, they're alienating all players. They're making things hard on themselves there."
#culture
Quote:
One agent explained to Sean Deveney of Sporting News how bad things have gotten for the Knicks heading into free agency this summer:
"I was talking to one of our players the other day, a free agent, and we were looking at our options. And it used to be, 'Yeah, get me to New York.' Even when they were struggling, there are guys who want to be in the city. But he was saying, 'no, no, not that environment, not now.' They're not just alienating their own players, they're alienating all players. They're making things hard on themselves there."
#culture
I dream of the day we acquire enough culture points so that Trevor Booker will want to come play for us!
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Marc SteinVerified account
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Free Agency Scuttle: Houston is making Ryan Anderson/Lou Williams/Patrick Beverley available via trade to create summer spending flexibility
Knicks have the cap space to absorb some of those guys - but the thought of Phil trading with Morey is terrifying.
Rockets have no first this year and gave up a first to land Lou Williams so I find it hard to believe they would have much to offer. Do we really want Ryan Anderson 3 for 60 for the Rockets (with Chris Paul or PG13)'s 2018 pick? I'd take Dekker if they were willing to include him in the right deal.
Viva la Frank!
"I was talking to one of our players the other day, a free agent, and we were looking at our options. And it used to be, 'Yeah, get me to New York.' Even when they were struggling, there are guys who want to be in the city. But he was saying, 'no, no, not that environment, not now.' They're not just alienating their own players, they're alienating all players. They're making things hard on themselves there."
that last sentence rings true. NYC did have some allure for these guys even with a lousy owner. But when you add Phil you get this two-headed combination of buffoonery, incompetence, and assholish behavior (not to mention an amateur in over his head in Mills doing the leg work). It's just a lot to overcome.
Quote:
One agent explained to Sean Deveney of Sporting News how bad things have gotten for the Knicks heading into free agency this summer:
"I was talking to one of our players the other day, a free agent, and we were looking at our options. And it used to be, 'Yeah, get me to New York.' Even when they were struggling, there are guys who want to be in the city. But he was saying, 'no, no, not that environment, not now.' They're not just alienating their own players, they're alienating all players. They're making things hard on themselves there."
#culture
This to me is the most disappointing thing about Jackson's tenure. I'd have thought that a guy who has been such a big part of a bunch of winning environments would have an idea how to build a winning organization. But, amazingly, he has made the Knicks even MORE dysfunctional.
"I was talking to one of our players the other day, a free agent, and we were looking at our options. And it used to be, 'Yeah, get me to New York.' Even when they were struggling, there are guys who want to be in the city. But he was saying, 'no, no, not that environment, not now.' They're not just alienating their own players, they're alienating all players. They're making things hard on themselves there."
So everyone understands, the great Phil Jackson has sunk our undesirability to levels it didnt see in the Layden and Thomas eras.
He needs to go. Taking runs at Melo, KP, and LeBron is bad executive management. I dont care how much anyone here hates Melo -- there was no upside in going after him publicly.
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In comment 13506378 DanMetroMan said:
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Free Agency Scuttle: Houston is making Ryan Anderson/Lou Williams/Patrick Beverley available via trade to create summer spending flexibility
Knicks have the cap space to absorb some of those guys - but the thought of Phil trading with Morey is terrifying.
Rockets have no first this year and gave up a first to land Lou Williams so I find it hard to believe they would have much to offer. Do we really want Ryan Anderson 3 for 60 for the Rockets (with Chris Paul or PG13)'s 2018 pick? I'd take Dekker if they were willing to include him in the right deal.
Anderson would be a lot of money to take on - but I would take Beverly and Williams for nothing, i.e. I wouldn't need anything in addition to them. Of course other teams would likely feel the same way.
Why would anyone come here, money equal? Only argument I can think of is to play with KP. Maybe there is a little more minor endorsement money (the major endorsements go to winning stars, wherever they may be).
"I was talking to one of our players the other day, a free agent, and we were looking at our options. And it used to be, 'Yeah, get me to New York.' Even when they were struggling, there are guys who want to be in the city. But he was saying, 'no, no, not that environment, not now.' They're not just alienating their own players, they're alienating all players. They're making things hard on themselves there."
I find these types of comments to be moronic. No one is kicking down any doors to accept the Brooklyn Nets' money either. If LeBron could go back to play for the guy who wrote the letter, anyone will go anywhere that supplies the right amount of money and a chance to win. The Knicks SOLE focus needs to be on making this organization better through the draft. And once they get a good core through the draft, all of a sudden, guys will want to come here in free agency.
Frankly, free agents refusing to come to the Knicks only makes it less likely for the Knicks to hand a dumb contract to anyone.
Viva la Frank!
I'm with you. A guy whose floor is plus D with outside range is a d
Keeper for me. We're still two studs away no matter who we get this year.
Quote:
One agent explained to Sean Deveney of Sporting News how bad things have gotten for the Knicks heading into free agency this summer:
"I was talking to one of our players the other day, a free agent, and we were looking at our options. And it used to be, 'Yeah, get me to New York.' Even when they were struggling, there are guys who want to be in the city. But he was saying, 'no, no, not that environment, not now.' They're not just alienating their own players, they're alienating all players. They're making things hard on themselves there."
I find these types of comments to be moronic. No one is kicking down any doors to accept the Brooklyn Nets' money either. If LeBron could go back to play for the guy who wrote the letter, anyone will go anywhere that supplies the right amount of money and a chance to win. The Knicks SOLE focus needs to be on making this organization better through the draft. And once they get a good core through the draft, all of a sudden, guys will want to come here in free agency.
Frankly, free agents refusing to come to the Knicks only makes it less likely for the Knicks to hand a dumb contract to anyone.
LeBron went "home" to a team that had 3 straight #1 picks. It's not evidence that the douchey letter was irrelevant. Also that's one letter vs. a decade+ is mismanagement.
If the sole focus is getting better thru the draft, then the org wont improve. Fundamentally, there needs to be some "culture" change.
Your last point isnt as logical as you think it is. I think it's MORE likely we hand out dumb contracts, as players seek a premium to play here in this losing, corrosive environment. Could change if we start winning. But your assumption seems to be that this quote means no one will take our money; it doesnt.
He has tools and the right mentality. That excites me.
Amen to that. Nothing against Frank but we need to gamble on greatness right now. We did so with KP when other "safer" picks were on the board, most of whom have proven to be anything but safe.
He has tools and the right mentality. That excites me.
So you think his floor is "plus" defensive 1/2 with 3 point range? That's the worst potential outcome? Even the scouts that like him say he has the potential to be an impact defender not that he IS one. That's a pretty silly "floor" to put anyone who hasn't "done it" before.
agree. You swing for the fences in the lottery.
He has tools and the right mentality. That excites me.
It's precisely the tools I disagree about. No need to rehearse that debate.
I think so much of the difference between good and great is between the ears, and we cant evaluate that.
I think so much of the difference between good and great is between the ears, and we cant evaluate that.
I hear you Deej, but guards with undeveloped handles and who are smooth but not explosive don't seem like a good bet even if they are smart and will make the right play. With forwards, the difference between a bad and a good handle with respect to position is much smaller than it is for a guard, where a below-average handle can be crippling.
Great points here. People and even Phil like to make it seem like Porzingis came out of nowhere and he plucked him from some obscure league. He played on a marquee team in the best euro league in the world. He was also a consensus top 5 pick. Phil still nailed the pick but KP wasn't this unknown prospect.
Not sure how that's any different than the Isiah era, though.
The quality is better than the NCAA's or at least Fran Fraschilla says so:
Fran FraschillaVerified account @franfraschilla May 27
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Lottery pick, Frank Ntilikina's season continues w/win in French Pro A playoffs. Hard to explain to fans that level is much higher than NCAA
Nic Batum played in the same league and put up very similar numbers at Frank's age. That doesn't mean he'll be as good but it does tell me that putting too much weight into it isn't very useful.
I think so much of the difference between good and great is between the ears, and we cant evaluate that.
The key is "length to be". I really have a problem with the suggestion is "worst case" is an excellent defender. Heck, Corey Brewer (strong defender) Brewer shot 44% from 3 as a Freshman (36% from 3 over the 3 seasons) and is a career 0.54, 11.9 PER player despite being a "success" (going on 10 NBA seasons). So I fail to see how Frenchy's floor is so high that a "good" 3 and D player is the downside. That seems far fetched.
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don't think people realize how poor the quality of play is in LNB Pro A, like REALLY bad. If Frenchy is the pick I will root for him like he was my first choice but this is nothing like KP who put up numbers in the #2 league in the world and was a freak for his size. The best D league team would thrash the best team in this league, no exaggeration.
The quality is better than the NCAA's or at least Fran Fraschilla says so:
Fran FraschillaVerified account @franfraschilla May 27
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Lottery pick, Frank Ntilikina's season continues w/win in French Pro A playoffs. Hard to explain to fans that level is much higher than NCAA
Nic Batum played in the same league and put up very similar numbers at Frank's age. That doesn't mean he'll be as good but it does tell me that putting too much weight into it isn't very useful.
Fraschilla recently ranked it the #7 league in the world (ACB #1 international league). He also is obsessed with international players.
Ball
Tatum
Jackson
Fox
Smith
Isaac
Really think there's a good chance it comes down to monk vs frank.
John Motley of Baylor
Tony Bradley of UNC
Frank Jackson of Duke
Tyler Dorsey of Oregon
Derrick White of Colorado
Edmond Sumner of Xavier
PJ Dozier of South Carolina
Thoughts on any of these guys?
He can make decisions well. He shoots it well. He's athletic. He could be a good defender. And you're also looking at a kid who's still 18 years old. His long-term potential as an NBA player is very good. I watched him last summer at the Jordan Gym in New York City, and he made 27 out of 30 NBA 3s. I think people who didn't know him early on -- the obligatory line when you don't know somebody is, he's a really good athlete, but he's not a great shooter, and he's dispelling that this year in France, shooting over 40 percent from the international 3. He doesn't have the polish of a Fultz or Ball or the speed and athleticism or raw athleticism of Fox or Smith, but he has the look and feel of an NBA guard when he grows up.
LeBron went "home" to a team that had 3 straight #1 picks. It's not evidence that the douchey letter was irrelevant. Also that's one letter vs. a decade+ is mismanagement.
If the sole focus is getting better thru the draft, then the org wont improve. Fundamentally, there needs to be some "culture" change.
Your last point isnt as logical as you think it is. I think it's MORE likely we hand out dumb contracts, as players seek a premium to play here in this losing, corrosive environment. Could change if we start winning. But your assumption seems to be that this quote means no one will take our money; it doesnt.
If there was anyone who ever had a reason not to go or didn't need to go somewhere, it was LeBron. How they got the players isn't my point... the fact that they had them made Cleveland an attractive option for a man who had other choices and never needed to play for Dan Gilbert ever again. And he got the most money of any player who signed with a new team that offseason. I could argue Cleveland was still mismanaged with those number 1 picks, during LeBron's first stay with the Cavs, and even now. But if you pay people and give them a chance to win, players will get over that shit very quickly.
I know it's "Pile on Phil" time and for some people, anything that doesn't feed into that needs to be attacked. But the idea that players will turn down money and an opportunity to win because Phil said some things about Melo is laughable. (And let's be honest... I seriously doubt Phil is going to be around much longer if this thing isn't pointing in the right direction 12 months from now, regardless of Phil's contract extension.) I just don't take comments like the original one seriously. It's basically pile on Phil horseshit I totally expect to see from the basketball media at this time and it gets lapped up by everyone who hates Phil and Dolan.
I also completely disagree with your interpretation of the last 2 sentences.
Ball
Tatum
Jackson
Fox
Smith
Isaac
Really think there's a good chance it comes down to monk vs frank.
I take Monk without blinking.
Ball
Tatum
Jackson
Fox
Smith
Isaac
Really think there's a good chance it comes down to monk vs frank.
Wouldn't sleep on Mitchell either. They crammed his workout in on the day before the draft and he has a lot of the attributes they're looking for.
Year Player PTS
2017 Cameron Clark 613
2016 Michael Thompson 604
2015 Steven Gray 572
2014 Edwin Jackson 547
2013 Dwight Buycks 545
2012 Eric Chatfield 574
2011 Sammy Mejia 539
2010 Derrick Obasohan 594
2009 Austin Nichols 643
2008 Marc Salyers 572
2007 Dewarick Spencer 699
2006 Jason Rowe 713
2005 Jermaine Guice 671
2004 TJ Lux 717
2003 Danny Strong 980
MVP's
200405 France Laurent Sciarra (BCM) United States Jermaine Guice (STB)
200506 France Cyril Julian (Nancy) United States Jason Rowe (Toulon)
200607 France Cyril Julian (Nancy) United States Dewarick Spencer (Roanne)
200708 France Nando de Colo (Cholet) United States Marc Salyers (Roanne)
200809 France Alain Koffi (MSB) United States Austin Nichols (Toulon)
200910 France Ali Traor (ASVEL) Dominican Republic Ricardo Greer (Nancy)
201011 France Mickal Gelabale (ASVEL) Dominican Republic Samuel Mejia (Cholet)
201112 France Fabien Causeur (Cholet) United States Blake Schilb (Chalon)
201213 France Edwin Jackson (ASVEL) United States Dwight Buycks (BCM)
201314 France Antoine Diot (SIG) United States Randal Falker (Nancy)
It's not even former college stars it's "who?"