-Begley doesn't believe KP will actually be traded, asking price is "monstrous"
- KP has an E:60 coming up that touches on his issues with the Knicks but it sounds like he basically "no comments" direct details
-Lakers apparently talking to every team in the league. Thought they had a deal for 5 and 12 for #2, Kings balked
Quote:
He's not an explosive Russ type. But lets not underrate the reports that he's a really good at moving the ball and playing smart. It's a big part of the game. He's rocking the 3 and has the length to be an elite defender.
I think so much of the difference between good and great is between the ears, and we cant evaluate that.
The key is "length to be". I really have a problem with the suggestion is "worst case" is an excellent defender. Heck, Corey Brewer (strong defender) Brewer shot 44% from 3 as a Freshman (36% from 3 over the 3 seasons) and is a career 0.54, 11.9 PER player despite being a "success" (going on 10 NBA seasons). So I fail to see how Frenchy's floor is so high that a "good" 3 and D player is the downside. That seems far fetched.
I think every single player's floor is to be terrible, and unplayable. I dont believe in floors, and Im skeptical of even "reasonable" floors. I draft for upside * chance I think player has of reaching his upside.
Quote:
In comment 13506435 Deej said:
Quote:
He's not an explosive Russ type. But lets not underrate the reports that he's a really good at moving the ball and playing smart. It's a big part of the game. He's rocking the 3 and has the length to be an elite defender.
I think so much of the difference between good and great is between the ears, and we cant evaluate that.
The key is "length to be". I really have a problem with the suggestion is "worst case" is an excellent defender. Heck, Corey Brewer (strong defender) Brewer shot 44% from 3 as a Freshman (36% from 3 over the 3 seasons) and is a career 0.54, 11.9 PER player despite being a "success" (going on 10 NBA seasons). So I fail to see how Frenchy's floor is so high that a "good" 3 and D player is the downside. That seems far fetched.
I think every single player's floor is to be terrible, and unplayable. I dont believe in floors, and Im skeptical of even "reasonable" floors. I draft for upside * chance I think player has of reaching his upside.
I think when people talk floor, they really mean expected value.
If there was anyone who ever had a reason not to go or didn't need to go somewhere, it was LeBron. How they got the players isn't my point... the fact that they had them made Cleveland an attractive option for a man who had other choices and never needed to play for Dan Gilbert ever again. And he got the most money of any player who signed with a new team that offseason. I could argue Cleveland was still mismanaged with those number 1 picks, during LeBron's first stay with the Cavs, and even now. But if you pay people and give them a chance to win, players will get over that shit very quickly.
I know it's "Pile on Phil" time and for some people, anything that doesn't feed into that needs to be attacked. But the idea that players will turn down money and an opportunity to win because Phil said some things about Melo is laughable. (And let's be honest... I seriously doubt Phil is going to be around much longer if this thing isn't pointing in the right direction 12 months from now, regardless of Phil's contract extension.) I just don't take comments like the original one seriously. It's basically pile on Phil horseshit I totally expect to see from the basketball media at this time and it gets lapped up by everyone who hates Phil and Dolan.
I also completely disagree with your interpretation of the last 2 sentences.
Im not interested in LeBron. We both have points.
If an agent says that players' desire to play in NY has changed, I just dont know how you can throw that out as irrelevant. We know that (at least in other sports) guys have wanted to come to NY. Happened and happens a lot with the Rangers. So why couldnt the reverse be true?
You seem (to me at least) to just throw away the idea that players would care about being in a shitshow organization all other things being equal? We just dont agree on this.
Quote:
But when you add Phil you get this two-headed combination of buffoonery, incompetence, and assholish behavior (not to mention an amateur in over his head in Mills doing the leg work). It's just a lot to overcome.
Not sure how that's any different than the Isiah era, though.
The difference is that Isiah had a reputation for being a personable and charming guy in person...and wasn't that far removed from a HOF playing career. If you're a player, I think you respond more to him than an 72-year-old arrogant prick.
I think when people talk floor, they really mean expected value.
No, I actually think people basically mean floor, ie. he'll at least be X good. I think people have short memories, and just elide the fact that players usually turn out to be a lot worse than the lofty expectations we're giving them now.
Quote:
I think when people talk floor, they really mean expected value.
No, I actually think people basically mean floor, ie. he'll at least be X good. I think people have short memories, and just elide the fact that players usually turn out to be a lot worse than the lofty expectations we're giving them now.
Then people are idiots.
- there's no way to get back equal value for KP
-every day Phil is in the job he's doing more damage to the Knicks.
- no one from the Knicks has reached out to Kristaps since the seasons been over
- Jackson should be trying to repair relationships and instead he's making them worse.
I have no idea how anyone can defend Phil anymore. Who would have thought he would make the Knicks a bigger joke then when he was hired.
And for those who say who cares about this offseason. Players and agents and teams have long memories. It's not just about this season. He's doing damage.
Quote:
In comment 13506461 Ash_3 said:
Quote:
I think when people talk floor, they really mean expected value.
No, I actually think people basically mean floor, ie. he'll at least be X good. I think people have short memories, and just elide the fact that players usually turn out to be a lot worse than the lofty expectations we're giving them now.
Then people are idiots.
Isnt this a first order, basic truth. People are very, very stupid.
Phil needs to be fired.
Frank Jackson is kind of a homeless man's Monk. A small 2 guard, definitely not going to be a 1 in the NBA. Average athleticism, decent shot, weak defense.
Quote:
“Nobody from the Knicks will be there [working me out],” Porzingis said. “You see what happened to Josh Longstaff. ”
Phil needs to be fired.
Yeah. Our franchise building block asks to have the member of the staff who was sent to train him come out again, and we fire the staffer instead.
Because Phil has to be right about the triangle.
Melo wont be traded, Rose will be resigned, and Phil will issue a typo-laden tweet about the importance of continuity.
Quote:
“Nobody from the Knicks will be there [working me out],” Porzingis said. “You see what happened to Josh Longstaff. ”
Phil needs to be fired.
did you read the whole article? kp also goes on to say his main frustration was that the tram did not live up to expectations and that not everypne bought in...
he also says how he wants to stay with the knickd and does not want to be traded
Quote:
In comment 13506476 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
“Nobody from the Knicks will be there [working me out],” Porzingis said. “You see what happened to Josh Longstaff. ”
Phil needs to be fired.
did you read the whole article? kp also goes on to say his main frustration was that the tram did not live up to expectations and that not everypne bought in...
he also says how he wants to stay with the knickd and does not want to be traded
Do you think if Phil continues to treat players and "build" a team the way he has so far, KP won't get alienated?
Quote:
In comment 13506476 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
“Nobody from the Knicks will be there [working me out],” Porzingis said. “You see what happened to Josh Longstaff. ”
Phil needs to be fired.
Yeah. Our franchise building block asks to have the member of the staff who was sent to train him come out again, and we fire the staffer instead.
Because Phil has to be right about the triangle.
technically not fired :)
Quote:
In comment 13506477 Ash_3 said:
Quote:
In comment 13506476 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
“Nobody from the Knicks will be there [working me out],” Porzingis said. “You see what happened to Josh Longstaff. ”
Phil needs to be fired.
did you read the whole article? kp also goes on to say his main frustration was that the tram did not live up to expectations and that not everypne bought in...
he also says how he wants to stay with the knickd and does not want to be traded
Do you think if Phil continues to treat players and "build" a team the way he has so far, KP won't get alienated?
if he has young players around hik and the team is built around him, no i dont...
and what do you mean players? it is one player, melo, do you know how horrible phil treatex kobe? and you know what kobe told melo? suck it the fuck up
You assume too much. Marbury's threat to blackmail Zeke is not necessarily inconsistent with him finding Zeke to be personable. It's just business.
And BTW, Marbury was being benched for Mardy Collins, which was bonkers. So he had a point.
- there's no way to get back equal value for KP
-every day Phil is in the job he's doing more damage to the Knicks.
- no one from the Knicks has reached out to Kristaps since the seasons been over
- Jackson should be trying to repair relationships and instead he's making them worse.
I have no idea how anyone can defend Phil anymore. Who would have thought he would make the Knicks a bigger joke then when he was hired.
And for those who say who cares about this offseason. Players and agents and teams have long memories. It's not just about this season. He's doing damage.
After what he said about Donnie Walsh being in a wheelchair, why would any Knicks fan listen to this person? And when Donnie went back to Indiana, Woj pretended Donnie did a great job with the Knicks. This feeds into my previous comments about so much of this stuff being about criticizing Phil and Dolan. (And that means the fans too.) The comment that "no one from the Knicks has reached out to KP" is just untrue. Hornacek tried to touch base with him and KP simply did not respond.
dan gilbert wrote a letter about lebron and lebron still came back...
chris paul was on a team with a racist owner...
if you draft the right players no one gives a shit about the management
dan gilbert wrote a letter about lebron and lebron still came back...
chris paul was on a team with a racist owner...
if you draft the right players no one gives a shit about the management
amazing how you keep telling yourself that what goes on at MSG is normal.
also phil supposedly met with janis so is the media telling us they lied about this meeting or are they just ignoring it to push their agenda...
and i say this everytime woj hates the knicks he is a mouthpiece for the nets, he is good at breaking stories because he has a source inside the nba league office...
So true. Phil has always acted this way. It's nothing new. The only difference is that he was winning while doing it before.
Mike Francesa needs to get a NY guy on the air.
also phil supposedly met with janis so is the media telling us they lied about this meeting or are they just ignoring it to push their agenda...
and i say this everytime woj hates the knicks he is a mouthpiece for the nets, he is good at breaking stories because he has a source inside the nba league office...
Begley was on ESPN last night and flat out said the relationship is very poor right now so either Begley is a liar too or Woj's stories have some merit.
Quote:
he alienated the biggest star in the nba and also a player who brought 3 championships and was draftex by heat and no one bats an eyelash..
dan gilbert wrote a letter about lebron and lebron still came back...
chris paul was on a team with a racist owner...
if you draft the right players no one gives a shit about the management
amazing how you keep telling yourself that what goes on at MSG is normal.
so 5 years ago you thought the warriors would be the best team in the league?
if knicks hit on this draft pick you dont think it could be turned around?
Quote:
the Rat gets the benefit of the doubt. Phil Jackson does not. Sorry, that's how it works. Win big doing a role, you get the benefit of the doubt doing the same role somewhere else. Riley might be a scumbag but does anyone really question his ability to reel in big fish? Would anyone truly be shocked if he added a superstar over the next 2 off-seasons? Hayward etc. In fact, some are suggesting if Lebron doesn't go to LA, the superfriends may re-unite in Miami.
So true. Phil has always acted this way. It's nothing new. The only difference is that he was winning while doing it before.
well, the other difference is that your duties as a coach are sort of different compared to that of a GM or team president. As a coach, you can play off his BS mind games as motivating players or whatever. If you're running the team, devaluing your star player (who you want to trade) and alienating your best young player is just moronic.
Quote:
hornacek told the media that he has texted kp numerous times trying to reach him and said he is going over there for the world cha.pionships..
also phil supposedly met with janis so is the media telling us they lied about this meeting or are they just ignoring it to push their agenda...
and i say this everytime woj hates the knicks he is a mouthpiece for the nets, he is good at breaking stories because he has a source inside the nba league office...
Begley was on ESPN last night and flat out said the relationship is very poor right now so either Begley is a liar too or Woj's stories have some merit.
begely straight up lied yesterday, he said he talked to janis recently and made it look like he talked to him in the past couple of days and posted the same exact quotes from 3 months ago! go look for yourself...
and when the news first broke yesterday it was phil is willing to trade kp and was listening, then 2 hours later it was phil is not really listening and wants a crazy offer...
so basically it was a few teams called and phil listened that was the extent of them "willing" to trade kp...
phil wouldnt be doing his job if he didnt listen, he is not out looking for a deal...
and every quote from kp or janis is how they want to be i n new york and do not want to be traded, so what is it?
amazing how you keep telling yourself that what goes on at MSG is normal.
The issue is that good players/free agents aren't going to bad teams that DON'T have an issue with a GM talking negatively about players or a jerk owner (e.g. Brooklyn). If they can get good players in the draft and get the vets off the team, this will become an attractive option regardless of the 2 things people are saying are impediments.
If you think Phil is incapable of drafting or building a good roster, that's a separate issue.
also phil supposedly met with janis so is the media telling us they lied about this meeting or are they just ignoring it to push their agenda...
and i say this everytime woj hates the knicks he is a mouthpiece for the nets, he is good at breaking stories because he has a source inside the nba league office...
Agree with you 1000%... This ENTIRE story is media driven. Don't believe everything that's being fed to you by people who have an axe to grind with the Knicks.
do you think maybe the guy who put together this "core group" bears some responsibility? It's not like Rose was known as a good guy/team first player/quality human before he got here.
I'm just spit-balling here, but if all of what you say about Melo is true...then maybe he's not the guy you give a five year near max deal with a no-trade clause and a trade kicker.
like 31yr old noah or 30 yr old lee?
he's been bringing in "old vets" since he got here. WTF?
Quote:
Melo has spent his whole career doing whatever the hell he wanted, not listening to coaches, playing hard when he felt like it, etc. I'm not Phil apologist but it's silly to blame him for what's gone on with Melo. I know two former players who played with Melo and both will tell you that he only cared about his stats. Guys would be upset after losses, some taking it harder than others but Melo never seemed to care and was always the exact same after a bad loss. This really irked his teammates.
I'm just spit-balling here, but if all of what you say about Melo is true...then maybe he's not the guy you give a five year near max deal with a no-trade clause and a trade kicker.
I totally agree with that. My bet is that was Dolan more than anything else though. Dolan forced Walsh to give up the farm to get him and wasn't going to lose him for nothing. I'm sure everyone in the organization thought that if the team decided to full on rebuild and weren't competitive that Melo would surely waive his no trade clause since he was getting his money anyways. Sort of amazing that he's being so picky and is totally fine wasting the rest of his career on a rebuilding team.
I'm just spit-balling here, but if all of what you say about Melo is true...then maybe he's not the guy you give a five year near max deal with a no-trade clause and a trade kicker.
ITA and I have no proof of this, but I truly believe that was more about Dolan than Phil. I think that was the only thing he asked of Phil before he took the job.
Quote:
i will be on the bandwagon of fire phil..
like 31yr old noah or 30 yr old lee?
lee is not a bad contract...
and i am talking about building around kp, the time for building aroind melo is over, he tried it didnt work time to build for future...
Purely as a basketball fan, I just want to learn from this man.
So I listened.
I knew right away Pat was a real guy, because he wasn’t even asking me about basketball. He was asking me about life.
Then Pat says, “We’re going to get you in world-class shape. Not good shape. Not great shape. World-class shape.”
I mean, I’m in the NBA. In my mind, I’m already in good shape. But do I eat a Philly steak every now and then when I’m home? You know I do.
So Pat’s looking at me like, “Give us a season, and you’ll see. World-class.”
Even the way this man pronounces world-class is world-class, you know what I mean?
And then he says to me, “Tell me something about Dion that I don’t already know.
Not about basketball. About life.”
The second time, he had to have Noah, signed him to a deal everyone knew was complete garbage at the time, and took a flyer on Rose.
And that flopped too.
He has publicly embarrassed a player on the team to the point where the player's union president had to comment on it. He has alienated a top draft pick, who wanted to play here, to the point where he'd privately likely rather be anywhere else.
Nothing he has done here can be considered a success.