-Begley doesn't believe KP will actually be traded, asking price is "monstrous"
- KP has an E:60 coming up that touches on his issues with the Knicks but it sounds like he basically "no comments" direct details
-Lakers apparently talking to every team in the league. Thought they had a deal for 5 and 12 for #2, Kings balked
Mike Francesa needs to get a NY guy on the air.
I dont know Winderman well, but my general feeling is that no group is more opposed to slow burning rebuilds than sports writers. They hate them to their core.
But in any event, that's a terrible proposal.
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In comment 13506518 nygiants16 said:
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i will be on the bandwagon of fire phil..
like 31yr old noah or 30 yr old lee?
lee is not a bad contract...
and i am talking about building around kp, the time for building aroind melo is over, he tried it didnt work time to build for future...
agree lee is not a bad contract, but he is an old vet
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In comment 13506521 hitdog42 said:
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In comment 13506518 nygiants16 said:
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i will be on the bandwagon of fire phil..
like 31yr old noah or 30 yr old lee?
lee is not a bad contract...
and i am talking about building around kp, the time for building aroind melo is over, he tried it didnt work time to build for future...
agree lee is not a bad contract, but he is an old vet
my point was he went for it last year it didnt work now its time to look to the fiture no more quick fixes...if he goes for the quick fix again i am done..
he is not trying to build around melo again...
and you do need a couple of old vets even when you are rebuilding, the problem is getting the right ones, lee seems like one of the right ones
begely has sources, and i even said yesterday oh shit begely is reporting it, but he contradicted himself and he posted old quotrs like they were knew to further the story and get clicks
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This core group dogged it two years in a row, and last year essentially quit on the coaches, yet Phil is being persecuted for exploring change? The players are not martyr's here. It's a losing group inside a toxic locker room. Change is necessary.
do you think maybe the guy who put together this "core group" bears some responsibility? It's not like Rose was known as a good guy/team first player/quality human before he got here.
Rose played on winning teams his entire career, known for their grit and intensity. He came here with his partner from that team. They were winners until the teamed up with Carmelo.
Phil's biggest gaffe was re-signing Melo. He should have let him walk. Every move since has been tainted because of the Melo environment.
Not to mention the Knicks are 80-167 in his 3 seasons. They have finished 15th, 13th and 12th in the Eastern Conference.
For the Phil defenders, I've love to know what gives you hope in Phil.
what is his front office experience other then working as spokesperson for gilbert's company when in detroit?
We should be really damn thankful this draft is as deep as it is. Now watch us go and draft FN.
If Monk and Frank Mason (for example) are Knicks in 30 hours, the tone around here will be a lot different.
Not to mention the Knicks are 80-167 in his 3 seasons. They have finished 15th, 13th and 12th in the Eastern Conference.
For the Phil defenders, I've love to know what gives you hope in Phil.
I wouldn't classify myself as a defender, but I'm not a hater either. IMO Carmelo (albeit a good guy) has poisoned this team by resisting the coaches requests to conform his style and it appears he has gained KP's loyalty as well. I think we're in an addition by subtraction situation with him. He really needs off this roster for us to move forward. Bringing him back will be Phil's MAJOR downfall.
what is his front office experience other then working as spokesperson for gilbert's company when in detroit?
Windhorst said his second interview is happening today, so it won't be long now.
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In comment 13506510 aimrocky said:
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This core group dogged it two years in a row, and last year essentially quit on the coaches, yet Phil is being persecuted for exploring change? The players are not martyr's here. It's a losing group inside a toxic locker room. Change is necessary.
do you think maybe the guy who put together this "core group" bears some responsibility? It's not like Rose was known as a good guy/team first player/quality human before he got here.
Rose played on winning teams his entire career, known for their grit and intensity. He came here with his partner from that team. They were winners until the teamed up with Carmelo.
Phil's biggest gaffe was re-signing Melo. He should have let him walk. Every move since has been tainted because of the Melo environment.
Is Melo responsible for Noah playing 46 games this year, or Derrick Rose having been a shitty defender in Chicago after his knee injuries sapped him of lateral movement?
The Melo hate is absolutely ridiculous. For some reason those outside of basketball despise the guy whereas so many people within the game have good stuff to say about him. I really thought for a while the issue was that people who thought that Melo was a top 3-5 talent were mad at him for not being that (or in George Karl's case, for not performing like that). But I think it just goes deeper. People just love to hate on Melo.
He is what he is. A scorer and rebounder, bridging the iso era and the modern era. He isnt much else, and particularly not a consistent defender. He was never good enough to be the best player on a title team, but he went to the playoffs as the best player on his team for 10 or 11 straight seasons. He's not a losing player. He's a declining, aging star.
If Monk and Frank Mason (for example) are Knicks in 30 hours, the tone around here will be a lot different.
Phil's biggest mistake was the Noah contract.
I wouldn't classify myself as a defender, but I'm not a hater either. IMO Carmelo (albeit a good guy) has poisoned this team by resisting the coaches requests to conform his style and it appears he has gained KP's loyalty as well. I think we're in an addition by subtraction situation with him. He really needs off this roster for us to move forward. Bringing him back will be Phil's MAJOR downfall.
For all the talk about how Melo resisted the triangle, which is probably true, the Knicks problem wasnt offense. They were middle of the pack in offense. Melo, Rose, and Jennings wouldnt/couldnt defend shit. Willy wasnt far behind, and KOQ was limited. Kuz didnt defend well, and Noah got hurt and was really only effective for a 6-10 week stretch. Lee I think was overrated as a defender, and he and Thomas are soft defenders. The whole team is soft on defense -- I dont think anyone viewed us as a pain to play.
When Phil came in, his entire program was based around team ball, and he's asked Melo to conform. Melo wouldn't, and that's my problem with him. He's always resisted the program, and when your biggest star isn't on board with the program the rest of the team follows. There's no ill will towards him. I'd root for him in his next spot (sans playing with LeBron), but he needs to be off this roster so Phil can fully implement his program.
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In comment 13506510 aimrocky said:
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This core group dogged it two years in a row, and last year essentially quit on the coaches, yet Phil is being persecuted for exploring change? The players are not martyr's here. It's a losing group inside a toxic locker room. Change is necessary.
do you think maybe the guy who put together this "core group" bears some responsibility? It's not like Rose was known as a good guy/team first player/quality human before he got here.
Rose played on winning teams his entire career, known for their grit and intensity. He came here with his partner from that team. They were winners until the teamed up with Carmelo.
Phil's biggest gaffe was re-signing Melo. He should have let him walk. Every move since has been tainted because of the Melo environment.
those teams also won a lot of games (and a playoff series) without Rose. Attributing their "grit and intensity" to him is ridiculous.
Yeah, I think it's time to move on. But Im not pulling my hair out to get Melo off this team at any cost, e.g. a buyout or trading for Austin Rivers and other trash.
I defended Phil up until this past season. The Noah deal was shaky at the time and panned out exactly as the doomsayers predicted if not worse. I thought getting Rose was inspired. Not Phil's fault Rose dogged it. It IS Phil's fault for forcing Rose to play in an offense he is not suited to. Should not have bothered to trade for him if this was the plan.
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I wouldn't classify myself as a defender, but I'm not a hater either. IMO Carmelo (albeit a good guy) has poisoned this team by resisting the coaches requests to conform his style and it appears he has gained KP's loyalty as well. I think we're in an addition by subtraction situation with him. He really needs off this roster for us to move forward. Bringing him back will be Phil's MAJOR downfall.
For all the talk about how Melo resisted the triangle, which is probably true, the Knicks problem wasnt offense. They were middle of the pack in offense. Melo, Rose, and Jennings wouldnt/couldnt defend shit. Willy wasnt far behind, and KOQ was limited. Kuz didnt defend well, and Noah got hurt and was really only effective for a 6-10 week stretch. Lee I think was overrated as a defender, and he and Thomas are soft defenders. The whole team is soft on defense -- I dont think anyone viewed us as a pain to play.
In fairness KOQ rated extremely well in terms of rim protection (like one of the better rim protectors in the NBA by the numbers). He's flawed for sure but I suspect on a good team/solid defense at the 1/2/3 that he would "look" like a solid defensive player vs. what we have in front of him.
As for guys like Lee and Noah, I think there comes a point where you are a fat cat and paid so if the team isn't especially good "why bother"? in terms of giving up your body (not defending it) just the mindset I suspect that kicks in.
When Phil came in, his entire program was based around team ball, and he's asked Melo to conform. Melo wouldn't, and that's my problem with him. He's always resisted the program, and when your biggest star isn't on board with the program the rest of the team follows. There's no ill will towards him. I'd root for him in his next spot (sans playing with LeBron), but he needs to be off this roster so Phil can fully implement his program.
Team ball is a nonsense buzz word. Do you see Melo's teammates throwing him under the bus? KP loves the guy. Show me the forward guy playing "team ball" with shitty teammates like Melo has had.
When Phil came in his entire program was to hire an unfit, unready coach, spout zen nonsense and force an offense onto a team in transition, and then utterly fail to put together a roster capable of making the playoffs. Part of Phil's program was to max and NTC Melo.
The excuse making for Phil needs to stop. He failed to recognize the shit show in year one, correctly stripped down the roster after failure was forced on him in year 2 (Melo got hurt) and had a nice offseason with KP and Rolo, and then went back to the failure well in year 3 with bullshit notions of competing with Chicago's garbage.
It's everyone else's fault but the guy in charge. Melo resisted Phil's team building -- that's must cost us 20 wins a season at least! Phil held onto all the picks, he's such a hero!
When Phil came in his entire program was to hire an unfit, unready coach, spout zen nonsense and force an offense onto a team in transition, and then utterly fail to put together a roster capable of making the playoffs. Part of Phil's program was to max and NTC Melo.
The excuse making for Phil needs to stop. He failed to recognize the shit show in year one, correctly stripped down the roster after failure was forced on him in year 2 (Melo got hurt) and had a nice offseason with KP and Rolo, and then went back to the failure well in year 3 with bullshit notions of competing with Chicago's garbage.
It's everyone else's fault but the guy in charge. Melo resisted Phil's team building -- that's must cost us 20 wins a season at least! Phil held onto all the picks, he's such a hero! [/quote]
Spot on Deej. One of my biggest disappointments has been Phil's failure to admit mistakes and to learn from them. It's everyone else's fault but his own.
Team ball is a nonsense buzz word. Do you see Melo's teammates throwing him under the bus? KP loves the guy. Show me the forward guy playing "team ball" with shitty teammates like Melo has had.
When Phil came in his entire program was to hire an unfit, unready coach, spout zen nonsense and force an offense onto a team in transition, and then utterly fail to put together a roster capable of making the playoffs. Part of Phil's program was to max and NTC Melo.
The excuse making for Phil needs to stop. He failed to recognize the shit show in year one, correctly stripped down the roster after failure was forced on him in year 2 (Melo got hurt) and had a nice offseason with KP and Rolo, and then went back to the failure well in year 3 with bullshit notions of competing with Chicago's garbage.
It's everyone else's fault but the guy in charge. Melo resisted Phil's team building -- that's must cost us 20 wins a season at least! Phil held onto all the picks, he's such a hero!
I recall STAT taking shots at Melo (and some other guys) for being jealous of Jeremy Lin. I also recall STAT's frustration with the offense (Melo taking as many shots as the rest of the starters combined) being the cause of his broken hand during the Miami playoff series.
I'm not "anti-Melo". I'm 100% "anti-Melo as a victim". And 99.9% of the people trying to make Melo a victim are just looking for an easy excuse to criticize Phil. Where were the people who're trying to paint Melo as a victim when he was pushing Mike D'Antoni out the door? I find it hilarious that after years and years of Melo being criticized to no end by Knicks fans that he now has to be seen as the poor victim of evil Phil. It's ridiculous. I'm not giving Phil a pass, but I'm sure as heck not giving Melo one either.
My sentiments exactly. It's easy for role players to follow the leader and Melo/Rose made it easy on those guys to slack off.
shockeyisthebest8056: Yeah, STAT did do that. STAT also got pissy and weird on the way out -- Im not sure who to believe. If Melo was the bad guy people want to paint him as, I'd think there would be more "bad Melo" takes. The Team USA guys love him and want to play with him (albeit none signed here). KP loves him. Chauncey said trade Love for him. I wouldnt consider Melo to be the poor victim of the evil Phil if all Phil was doing was shopping him; rather I'd be frustrated that Melo wouldnt wait his NTC. I just think Phil dogging him publicly to get him to waive the NTC Phil gave him is a dick move. Over the line, especially when the CBA forbids Melo from responding in kind (not his nature anyway)
Triangle: for all the talk about Melo resisting the offense, it really needs to be said: no one ran the triangle here. There were "elements" of the triangle which is a bit of nonsense. People werent doing the cuts and runs the triangle called for. Was Melo a blackhole? Sure he was. Where were the other guys passing and moving in the triangle? Rose had 17 shots and 5 assists per 36. KP 16.4 shots and 1.6 assists per 36. Melo's ratio wasnt great (20:3). But the year before he had a career high 4.3 assists/36.
The triangle failed because we didnt run the triangle. We didnt have players who ran the triangle, Melo or no Melo. We did not have the shooters for the triangle or the passing, back to the basket bigs for the triangle. We didnt have a head coach who played in or previously coached the triangle. We had no consistent commitment to the triangle. Oh, and if it was important, they should have benched Melo to send a message, especially after the season was lost and management was committed to berating and trading him anyway.
I've noticed that as well, and I suspect that those guys all like him as a buddy but don't necessarily want to play with him.
wonder if its melo for love and flip love type of deal
wonder if its melo for love and flip love type of deal
That would suit me just fine.
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“It is different,’’ Porzingis said in Spain. “It works if everyone believes in it, if everybody knows where to move and where to go and what to do and reads the situation well. You can’t do it with everybody. You have to have the right players, have to have players with sharp minds, that can read the game quickly and make the right cut and pass. I haven’t really been a part of a really good triangle team. We always had some trouble a bit. We’ll see what we do next season.’’
Bye Derrick.
Looks like this was on point.
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“It is different,’’ Porzingis said in Spain. “It works if everyone believes in it, if everybody knows where to move and where to go and what to do and reads the situation well. You can’t do it with everybody. You have to have the right players, have to have players with sharp minds, that can read the game quickly and make the right cut and pass. I haven’t really been a part of a really good triangle team. We always had some trouble a bit. We’ll see what we do next season.’’
This seems accurate and not negative, just factual.
It's really easy for some people to buy in to the innuendo that somehow (then) a five-time all star, All-nba player, and olympic champion would be "jealous" of a two-week fame streak for Jeremy Lin, but when you take stock of the entirety of Carmelo Anthony's career as a Knick, when has he ever gone hunting for headlines or trying to make a backpage?
I'd give up a future first for a lot of things. As long as it has reasonable and appropriate protections on it.