NFT: Knicks Chat: KP is staying, F the rumors

In comment 13506659 Steve in Greenwich said:

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now that is the most correct statement here. Deej said something earlier to the fact that people outside basketball hate Melo, but people inside have good things to say about him. Who? Karl bashed him, D'Antoni bashed him, Stat bashed him, Jeremy Lin left because of him, as much as we all have our pitchforks out at Phil Jackson both he and Jeff Hornacek have bashed him. But that doesnt fit the narrative of its all Phil's fault. Cant it just be everyone's fault? The Knicks are a dumpster fire from top to bottom. Dolan is the worst owner in the sport, Phil is a bad GM, Hornacek is a bad coach, and Melo doesn't take to coaching and is not a leading player. My biggest fear is the ilk of this franchise is going to cover itself and drag down the one good thing that's happened to it in the last 15 years in Porzingis.

Dantoni said STAT and Melo pushed out Lin. Neither one of them wanted to play in Lin ball per MDA, i.e. where Lin was constantly diving to the hoop. MDA said they both resented Lin. Then Amare comes out and says Melo was jealous and forced out Lin. Sounds like a soap opera. MDA blamed his players on the way out. Which is fine, Im sure no one was blameless.

Karl is a shitty guy. Period. He wrote a book taking a run at Melo, KMart, Lillard and others. His players tend to hate him. He yaps his mouth every time he gets fired. MDA's POV I care about, admitting he has bias b/c he wants to explain why things didnt work out. Karl's opinion I disregard.

There are plenty of guys who loved playing with Melo, as my post identified.
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be far less upset with Phil rolling the dice on Jackson (even giving up a pick with protections) than other moves we could make.

In comment 13506675 Greg from LI said:

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Quote: The Team USA guys love him and want to play with him (albeit none signed here). I've noticed that as well, and I suspect that those guys all like him as a buddy but don't necessarily want to play with him.

I thought it was worth mentioning. Counterpoint is that the threesome went to Miami. I bet it would have been Melo over Bosh if not for Melo's contract and Melo was willing to take less (he wasnt). I dont know how many other chances there were. Paul stayed in a good situation. Knicks were a mess when LeBron moved back to CLE, and I think there was a real unfinished business motivation with him.

If Melo was willing to leave those guys all wanted and want him.

Either you run triangle yes, or you run triangle no. You run triangle 'guess so'..,squish like grape

was different last summer, I think there's a good chance Wade ends up here.

but that's a story for another day.

Jackson/KP is a better 4/5 combo in today's NBA than KP/Willy, but ultimately I'd keep all of our picks for now.

Now about that Melo-for-Love idea....

Butler is not coming to Cleveland, and George is LA-bound. Maybe Phil can actually outsmart a GM with 10 minutes on the job.

In comment 13506712 Enzo said:

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was different last summer, I think there's a good chance Wade ends up here.

melo said this, he said when he talked to wade wade told him he was going back to miami

I'd love for them to land him. Short of KP, I don't see us getting to #2. Miracle working to get there, without giving up next years #1.

I know this is incredibly far fetched but its fun to think about it. This is contingent on Jackson being available at 4.

What about a 4 team trade?

Cavs get- Melo and Paul George

Knicks get- 4th overall pick from Phoenix, Brandon Knight,
Channing Frye

Pacers get - 8th overall pick from NYK, Iman Shumpert

Suns get- Kevin Love

Knicks are essentially taking on salary and trading Melo to move up 4 spots to get there guy. See link for ESPN trade machine. More picks or players could be added but thats the framework.

Who says no to that deal?
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In comment 13506542 DanMetroMan said:

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have Josh Jackson #2 on their board and "not far" from Fultz. He won't be a Knick but Phil must see Pippen 2.0. I guess the off court stuff isn't a concern/big deal.

Dan, I have a good friend who is a KU alum and Jayhawk fanatic. So I watched KU the past season, more college ball than I've watched in a while. I think JJ is more athletic, nimble, and creative with the ball than Pippen; JJ can snake over, under, around and through the defender, under control, and he's just a frosh, and he is driven. Maybe not Frank Mason III driven, but he has will and desire. Pippen I think was stronger and thicker than JJ will ever be, I think, and more of a force on the boards. But as I posted way earlier in this thread, I think JJ will be the stud emerging from this group. Unfortunate the Knicks have no shot.

In comment 13506771 TyreeHelmet said:

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I know this is incredibly far fetched but its fun to think about it. This is contingent on Jackson being available at 4. What about a 4 team trade? Cavs get- Melo and Paul George Knicks get- 4th overall pick from Phoenix, Brandon Knight, Channing Frye Pacers get - 8th overall pick from NYK, Iman Shumpert Suns get- Kevin Love Knicks are essentially taking on salary and trading Melo to move up 4 spots to get there guy. See link for ESPN trade machine. More picks or players could be added but thats the framework. Who says no to that deal? ESPN - ( New Window )

i listened back jackson was specific saying knicks were going for a top 3 pick

Maybe with butler wanting to stay and George adamant about LA Boston is circling back to melo. You aren't getting 3 for Melo but maybe Melo and 8 for 3, crowder, filler, and the pick Boston got from Philly?

is the buzz. Bill Simmons is pretty sure he's the pick.

Jackson available at #4.

In comment 13506773 ColHowPepper said:

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In comment 13506542 DanMetroMan said: Quote: have Josh Jackson #2 on their board and "not far" from Fultz. He won't be a Knick but Phil must see Pippen 2.0. I guess the off court stuff isn't a concern/big deal. Dan, I have a good friend who is a KU alum and Jayhawk fanatic. So I watched KU the past season, more college ball than I've watched in a while. I think JJ is more athletic, nimble, and creative with the ball than Pippen; JJ can snake over, under, around and through the defender, under control, and he's just a frosh, and he is driven. Maybe not Frank Mason III driven, but he has will and desire. Pippen I think was stronger and thicker than JJ will ever be, I think, and more of a force on the boards. But as I posted way earlier in this thread, I think JJ will be the stud emerging from this group. Unfortunate the Knicks have no shot.

I'm a big time, big time Jackson fan. I still have him 3rd (just because I think we badly need a PG) but I think Jackson has a legit shot to be the best player in this draft. He has "it". He's the kind of player that in the "old" days would stay 3 years and people would be frothing at the mouth at the finished product. I was mostly making the Pippen comp in jest given I was told flat out Phil "loves" him and didn't have Fultz "clear" 1st.

Forfeit Willy with 8 for Jackson if he fell to 4. KP and Jackson could be an awesome, awesome combo

but I know how popular he is. I'd absolutely make that move. KP would be even more pissed.

in a couple of spots that it may end up being a buyers market at the PG spot this summer. Wouldn't shock me to see Phil try to land one of the available vets with our cap room. Especially if he drafts a wing.

He might fall out of the top 5

Possibly Fox going #2

Ball and Jackson could slide a bit..

Sounds like Phil would want Jackson, but I'd prefer Fox.

In comment 13506790 DanMetroMan said:

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Forfeit Willy with 8 for Jackson if he fell to 4. KP and Jackson could be an awesome, awesome combo

I'd do that in a heartbeat.

And move up for Jackson. Would moving Lee for a late first open up enough cap space to make a run at a guy like Lowry?

In comment 13506805 Mike in NJ said:

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And move up for Jackson. Would moving Lee for a late first open up enough cap space to make a run at a guy like Lowry?

Lowry's max from us would be something nuts like 4/150. I don't think moving just Lee gives us enough room.

.

In comment 13506817 Enzo said:

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In comment 13506805 Mike in NJ said: Quote: And move up for Jackson. Would moving Lee for a late first open up enough cap space to make a run at a guy like Lowry? Lowry's max from us would be something nuts like 4/150. I don't think moving just Lee gives us enough room.

Yikes, no thanks at that price anyway. Didn't realize it was that high.

In comment 13506790 DanMetroMan said:

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Forfeit Willy with 8 for Jackson if he fell to 4. KP and Jackson could be an awesome, awesome combo

That's a really stiff price. I was Willy-skeptical last summer (and gave you a hard time about him!) but now Im a believer. Per 36 of 16p - 13.6r - 2.6a- 1b - 1.1s, good shooting and FT shooting. Has really high BBIQ and great hands/feel around the net. Amazingly had a positive net ortg vs drtg last year on this team. Really the only hangup is the defense. Euro bigs just tend to take a few years on that end, for whatever reason.

If Willy was in this draft, knowing what we know and seeing his contract, he'd be a top 10 pick. I think BOS would trade down to 5-6 and take him there. He's more valuable to me than Markkanen (who is 20), the likely first pure 4 or 5 to go tomorrow.

If Phil thinks he can take 8 and Willy and get a Scottie Pippen, so be it. But Im not trading Willy just to get a marginally better prospect. The difference between Tatum/Fox/Isaac and Monk/Smith to me isnt more significant that the difference between Okafor/Russell and KP/Mudiay in 2015, at least as we perceived it. And KP ended up better than the 2-3 picks.

celtics interested in trading down for smith jr

In comment 13506830 nygiants16 said:

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celtics interested in trading down for smith jr

That makes sense. They can gamble on his knees and have a good coach and winning atmosphere to acculturate him to the NBA. Its a good atmosphere for a player to learn his craft -- Im really at a loss as to why several prospects seem against the Celts.

But WTF are they trading down to get? They cant roster half the picks/prospects they have, and I honestly dont think Ainge is going move for a star.

doesn't really make much sense.

In comment 13506835 RAIN said:

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doesn't really make much sense.

Isiah is a free agent after next season, has a max of $200 million, and just suffered a serious hip injury. It makes a ton of sense.

he may not even be on that team opening day. Ainge is ruthless. Which you need to be.

like Phil Jackson will be doing an interview on MSG tonight at 9.

In comment 13506846 Steve in Greenwich said:

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like Phil Jackson will be doing an interview on MSG tonight at 9.

Yep. On Knicks Night Live.

Michael Scotto‏Verified account @MikeAScotto
Source: New Orleans Pelicans guard Tim Frazier has been traded to the Washington Wizards in exchange for the No. 52 pick.

spurs talking to kings about aldridge for one of their first round picks

In comment 13506864 nygiants16 said:

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spurs talking to kings about aldridge for one of their first round picks

Don't do it Vlade!

In comment 13506839 Enzo said:

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In comment 13506835 RAIN said: Quote: doesn't really make much sense. Isiah is a free agent after next season, has a max of $200 million, and just suffered a serious hip injury. It makes a ton of sense.

I stand corrected. I didn't realize his Hip was a such a problem, damn. Giving him the max probably isn't wise, but he was such a huge part of their run.

When there are dozens of questions and the questions center around a losing culture and what's wrong with this player or what did that player do or which player was wrong or whatever, the answer to all of those questions comes down to one simple word:

Leadership. Melo isn't changing his game or taking too many shots??? Wahhhh??? Here's an idea; coach the guy!! Make him fucking work and change his game or sit his ass on the bench!!! Brian leech was benched!! Lawrence Taylor was chewed out by parcells. Lawrence Taylor!! Not melo. Let him do his thing because he's got a NTC. Woopy damn dooo!!! Sorry ass fucking team....

Dolan meddles when he shouldn't. Doesn't meddle when he should. He's too loyal at times and at other times too busy or quick to go scorched earth.

Leadership. Phil is a disaster of unmitigated proportions. I only pray that he doesn't do any long term damage to the knicks and only fucks things up for present day. Please don't trade any picks for garbage and don't dish out anymore god awful long term contracts. Hit rock bottom again this season and maybe he will get fired and we can go from there.

In comment 13506847 Anakim said:

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In comment 13506846 Steve in Greenwich said: Quote: like Phil Jackson will be doing an interview on MSG tonight at 9. Yep. On Knicks Night Live.

Theme will be: State of the Knicks and Camelo's mama a bitch

if Melo is breaking your offense or not giving you enough defensive effort, sit him. Consequences. Or dont, but then the message you're sending is "yeah, we dont have to horses to run a balanced offense so Melo has to volume shoot, and then we get that he's spent and cant D up (which he doesnt want to do anyway".

No one benched Melo because the quote has basically been true for his career. He has HAD to be the offense most of the time.

Sit him down and tell him you're playing the 6th man role. This team is going to revolve around KP and the kids and shut your fucking mouth. Don't like it there melo? Waive you're ntc or pound salt. And everyone better get ready to run in camp because that's all the knicks should be worried about. Offense my ass. Run. And run some more. Coaches here or softer than twinkles. My god work these slobs.

In comment 13506879 djm said:

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Sit him down and tell him you're playing the 6th man role. This team is going to revolve around KP and the kids and shut your fucking mouth. Don't like it there melo? Waive you're ntc or pound salt. And everyone better get ready to run in camp because that's all the knicks should be worried about. Offense my ass. Run. And run some more. Coaches here or softer than twinkles. My god work these slobs.

If this ever happened the narrative would be the Knicks are unfairly treating their players.

I may puke

He didn't deny that KP is untouchable. He said that he never had a player not show up to an exit meeting.

He's pissed.

In comment 13506908 Anakim said:

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I may puke

They better be getting a whole hell of a lot with that top 4 pick.

the exit meeting really huet he has tried to talk to kp, needs som repairing..

he also said they are listening, if they get an offer of 2 starters and draft picks it may be something they have to think about it, have to do whats best for team

He said the 8th pick will hopefully be an eventual starter

but he's always been a massive ego.