Bender 5.3 PER, NEGATIVE 0.029 WS/48.... AWFUL rookie season #Knicks
That's a "throw-in" to a major trade not a target. He went 4th overall in a weak draft and was viewed as a response to KP being so good. We have KP. I'm prepared to be sick tonight... please keep KP unless you are truly blown away. Bender and #4 and I will literally have trouble sleeping.
@MicahAdams13
Last season, Porzingis avg more PPG than Aldridge, more Blks than DeAndre, shot better from 3 than JR Smith, more dunks than Blake. He's 21
The organization is a joke. Phil's ego cannot fit inside MSG. Anybody that goes against him needs to be taught a lesson. Phil has always been called the Zen Master because of the way he would push players' buttons. This could all just be lip service to let Porzingis know Phil has control over him. Either way, I would hope my GM listens to any and all offers for his players. If not then he isn't doing his job. Never leave a stone unturned. That doesn't mean he needs to pull the trigger on any deal but the more he says no to deals the more the asking price goes up. His job is to put a legit contender on the court. It isn't about holding onto one player. So, like most, I would love to build around Porzingis but if the right deal comes along then you have to consider it.
than just skipping the exit interview. It just doesn't make sense.
I think the brother's comment this week that KP wants to stay despite how NYK is treating their players. KP didnt go to the meeting of course. And if you want to reach, there were some post game comments where KP expressed his frustration that they dont know what they're doing on offense/schematically.
Add it all up in Phil's eyes and it's KP communicating that the team is a mess. Which it is but Im sure Phil thinks he's zen mastering the shit out of this gig.
if you can get 2 top 5 picks next year you are really setting yourself up there are some franchise talents, at least projected right now, in that draft...
Is the evidence Bender is a "core" player? He was beyond awful. It's notbas if the predraft buzz was raving. He was viewed as a poor man's KP. I'd take Markkanen over Bender without thinking twice and he too has a "lesser KP" vibe. Maybe Bender develops but he was pathetic as a rookie and isn't a "freak" athlete. He may be an absolute bum.
than just skipping the exit interview. It just doesn't make sense.
i think its more about kp ignoring hornacek and phils overtures to speak to him, i think him skipping the exit meeting was one thing and they understood he was frustrated but not responding to them i think that is ehat is fueling everything
if you can get 2 top 5 picks next year you are really setting yourself up there are some franchise talents, at least projected right now, in that draft...
Why would anyone expect the Suns with Bledsoe, KP, Booker and one of Chris's or Bender plus Chandler etc be top 5 bad next year? Bizarre
frankly the only team that can approcah putting together a package of fair value for KP is the Celtics and do we really want to see him competing for title year in year out in that puke green? I guess if you are dead set on trading him thats the direction you go. They can offer a package of top picks and a young player that would allow for the best chance at a re-build.
if you can get 2 top 5 picks next year you are really setting yourself up there are some franchise talents, at least projected right now, in that draft...
Why would anyone expect the Suns with Bledsoe, KP, Booker and one of Chris's or Bender plus Chandler etc be top 5 bad next year? Bizarre
woj said last night no deal will happen without booker involved..
According to a respected poster on ultimateknicks,
more than the Knicks. It's also being reported that they are inquiring about De'Andre Jordan, so I think they have the For Sale sign up and want everyone to know it.
Bender would be a horrible return. He sucks. #4 and Booker, maybe Criss (who I think will be a good player), but even then, PHO would have to sweeten the pot. At the end of the day, I think this is a lot of smoke.
1. This is what happens when you have old and out of touch men running things. Say what you want about the "posse" comment from Phil re: LeBron's team, but it was an out of touch and old man response to not being okay with the shift LeBron has created on the league (being his own industry).
2. Is there ANY CHANCE that Phil is just "teaching the boy a lesson", i.e., "we'll show Kristaps, I know he loves NY but let's entertain offers so he will fall into line"?
I'm really hoping that is the case because if we trade KP, I may turn in my fan card until this GM/ownership situation changes.
no disrespect to others opinions but I'm really stunned the sort of deals you would be willing to make. Yeah I guess I'd stomach Booker and #4, Booker has displayed skills that may translate into at worst a high level scorer (admittedly I'm a big fan) but things like the Suns 2020 pick? There is a very real chance by 2020 the Suns are one of the best young core's in the NBA with Booker/KP/Chriss/Bledsoe. That could be one of the ascending teams in the NBA. I'm a massive Josh Jackson fan but stars win rings. If you do KP for Jackson and Bender basically if Jackson is anything less than an absolute superstar you made a terrible trade.
This has nothing to do with "old and out of touch men"
i was at a knicks game, kps rookie year, kp was hurt and done for season at this point, i got great tickets right behind knicks bench 1st row...
janis was standing there and the game was about to start and a security guy comes over and says hey it is time to clear court...
janis says ok, then looks at the guy he is talking to rolls his eyes and goes does that guy know who i am and stood there and didnt move for another 5 mins, now you can say it means nothing but it seems like janis got a big head because of his brothers success
will try to "rebuild" by trading away a 21 year old player?
Only the Knicks
I had the exact same thought. It seems they're embracing a rebuild for the first time in 20 years, so of course step one is to deal the young stud who was a gift from the basketball gods.
It has everything to do with it. How else do you explain the fact that Phil specifically spent a portion of that 5 minute interview last night emphasizing that he has never had a player miss an exit interview. Clearly a sign of disrespect to him and now one of the top 20/30 (?) players in the league is part of trade discussions.
RE: i think kps brother is behind everything going on
i was at a knicks game, kps rookie year, kp was hurt and done for season at this point, i got great tickets right behind knicks bench 1st row...
janis was standing there and the game was about to start and a security guy comes over and says hey it is time to clear court...
janis says ok, then looks at the guy he is talking to rolls his eyes and goes does that guy know who i am and stood there and didnt move for another 5 mins, now you can say it means nothing but it seems like janis got a big head because of his brothers success
Who the hell cares about Janis? You don't think the reps for other players have "big heads"? Scott Boras? David Falk? Prior to this "skipped exit interview" please provide examples/evidence (of any kind) that KP has a "big head". Kid has seemingly worked his ass off, loves the game. Be upset about the exit interview, that is your right but "big headed brother" is absurd.
will try to "rebuild" by trading away a 21 year old player?
Only the Knicks
I had the exact same thought. It seems they're embracing a rebuild for the first time in 20 years, so of course step one is to deal the young stud who was a gift from the basketball gods.
On a team with Noah, Melo, Sasha, Lee (all 31 and over).
HOLY - I just looked it up and Kristaps is LITERALLY the youngest player on this team! Hernangomez is two years older at 23! Ron Baker is 24!!! WTF
pretend Janis is pushing for KP to be traded (absolutely zero evidence/mention of this anywhere, I mean anywhere even the "Knicks hating" media) but let's pretend that's the case... Phil Jackson... Smug Big Chief Triangle would quietly listen to this "demand/request"? Uh, why?
i was at a knicks game, kps rookie year, kp was hurt and done for season at this point, i got great tickets right behind knicks bench 1st row...
janis was standing there and the game was about to start and a security guy comes over and says hey it is time to clear court...
janis says ok, then looks at the guy he is talking to rolls his eyes and goes does that guy know who i am and stood there and didnt move for another 5 mins, now you can say it means nothing but it seems like janis got a big head because of his brothers success
Who the hell cares about Janis? You don't think the reps for other players have "big heads"? Scott Boras? David Falk? Prior to this "skipped exit interview" please provide examples/evidence (of any kind) that KP has a "big head". Kid has seemingly worked his ass off, loves the game. Be upset about the exit interview, that is your right but "big headed brother" is absurd.
my whole point was it is not kp, it is janis who is telling kp what to do...
i dont think kp would have done this without janis in his head telling him to do this, that was my point....
i am actually absolving kp sayong he is not the type to blatantly not show up for something
pretend Janis is pushing for KP to be traded (absolutely zero evidence/mention of this anywhere, I mean anywhere even the "Knicks hating" media) but let's pretend that's the case... Phil Jackson... Smug Big Chief Triangle would quietly listen to this "demand/request"? Uh, why?
i never said he was pushing for a trade, i think this is a power trip on both sides...
janis told kp hey skip exit meeting and show the knkcks how mad you are...
phil says ok you want to play that game i am going listen to offers..
i also think knicks not letting kp play for latvia was the first gut punch from knicks to kp and kp took it a little personally...
i thinkt hat is why he was so hell bent on playing this year...
lets pretend Janis pushed his brother to do this... and to ignore the texts... and to be upset... THAT'S a reason you sell low on a 21 year old player the ENTIRE league wants? You trade Porzingis in a deal where the return is "holy shit" not "seems reasonably fair if things work out". Outside of those on here who think KP is nothing special, is there anyone on here who doubts KP isn't going to be at WORST a 3rd best player on a contending team? And at best (if everything works out) a franchise player? Stars win rings, not this silly idea that Avery Bradley and Jae Crowder types (while nice players) move the needle.
lets pretend Janis pushed his brother to do this... and to ignore the texts... and to be upset... THAT'S a reason you sell low on a 21 year old player the ENTIRE league wants? You trade Porzingis in a deal where the return is "holy shit" not "seems reasonably fair if things work out". Outside of those on here who think KP is nothing special, is there anyone on here who doubts KP isn't going to be at WORST a 3rd best player on a contending team? And at best (if everything works out) a franchise player? Stars win rings, not this silly idea that Avery Bradley and Jae Crowder types (while nice players) move the needle.
who said anything about selling low? every single report says knicks asking price is absurdly high, who is selling low?
1) Bender is awful. Anyone wanting him in a KP trade is nuts and obviously hasn't watched him play.
2) Bookers a nice player but he's terrible on D. I'm sure he'll better but who knows.
3) KP is an elite rim protector. Combined with his skills, do you know how hard it is to find that? Big part of KPs appeal is the ability to construct a good defense around him.
4) I can't believe some of these trade offers fans are suggesting. Some guy proposed Saric, future 1st and 4 2nd round picks. I can't believe this.
5) He skipped an exit interview and it was a mistake. You don't think other young players have made mistakes? Under Phil alone, Pippen sat out the final play in the ECF, Shaq skipped exit interviews and Drose just flat out skipped a game. Hell Magic Johnson got a coach fired early in his career. KP made one mistake,not a big one. Forgive him and move on.
Lastly- fuck Phil jackson. This is why you don't give him this offseason. Would any other GM in the league be acting like this?
i find it funny
nygiants16 : 9:14 am : link : reply
the player who has been ridiculed the most doesnt even eant to leave...
Or does he? At this point getting the word out to his fans that he wants to stay might be covering his own butt to look like the good guy here. He might be fine with being traded after all this bs.
lets pretend Janis pushed his brother to do this... and to ignore the texts... and to be upset... THAT'S a reason you sell low on a 21 year old player the ENTIRE league wants? You trade Porzingis in a deal where the return is "holy shit" not "seems reasonably fair if things work out". Outside of those on here who think KP is nothing special, is there anyone on here who doubts KP isn't going to be at WORST a 3rd best player on a contending team? And at best (if everything works out) a franchise player? Stars win rings, not this silly idea that Avery Bradley and Jae Crowder types (while nice players) move the needle.
who said anything about selling low? every single report says knicks asking price is absurdly high, who is selling low?
Someone on this very thread suggested Bender, 4 and the Suns 2020 pick. You just suggested the Suns offer but we get their 2018 pick. That is selling low.
lets pretend Janis pushed his brother to do this... and to ignore the texts... and to be upset... THAT'S a reason you sell low on a 21 year old player the ENTIRE league wants? You trade Porzingis in a deal where the return is "holy shit" not "seems reasonably fair if things work out". Outside of those on here who think KP is nothing special, is there anyone on here who doubts KP isn't going to be at WORST a 3rd best player on a contending team? And at best (if everything works out) a franchise player? Stars win rings, not this silly idea that Avery Bradley and Jae Crowder types (while nice players) move the needle.
who said anything about selling low? every single report says knicks asking price is absurdly high, who is selling low?
Someone on this very thread suggested Bender, 4 and the Suns 2020 pick. You just suggested the Suns offer but we get their 2018 pick. That is selling low.
i never said the suns pick, i said any offer has to include a pick in 201i whenre you can get top 5, did i mention the suns?
i also said no deal from the suns is worth considering unless booker is involved, never said i would do chriss or bender and 4 for kp never...
dont buy into this happening. This more feels like Phil got butt hurt from Porzingis blowing off the exit interview and is using the media to show Porzingis that even he isn't above trade speculation. Phil met with Janis over the off season, who reiterated to Phil Kristaps desire to play in New York, so Phil is dangling that carrot in front of KP that if you don't get in line I have offers and am not afraid to ship you off to Pheonix never to be seen again.
To is Boston. I want the 3rd pick this year and the Nets pick next year just to start. I'd also ask for Jaylen Brown and possibly another first in 2019 or a few seconds in 2017/2018.
To is Boston. I want the 3rd pick this year and the Nets pick next year just to start. I'd also ask for Jaylen Brown and possibly another first in 2019 or a few seconds in 2017/2018.
this, suns do not have enough to make me want to do a trade...
top 5 this year is nice but next years picks are the value and like dan said they might be too good to get top 5...
To is Boston. I want the 3rd pick this year and the Nets pick next year just to start. I'd also ask for Jaylen Brown and possibly another first in 2019 or a few seconds in 2017/2018.
this, suns do not have enough to make me want to do a trade...
top 5 this year is nice but next years picks are the value and like dan said they might be too good to get top 5...
Well, if you're dealing KP for picks/young players (e.g. Booker), then they need to go all in on the tank and move Melo. Increase the odds of their 2018 #1 being top 5 along with the Nets.
To is Boston. I want the 3rd pick this year and the Nets pick next year just to start. I'd also ask for Jaylen Brown and possibly another first in 2019 or a few seconds in 2017/2018.
this, suns do not have enough to make me want to do a trade...
top 5 this year is nice but next years picks are the value and like dan said they might be too good to get top 5...
Well, if you're dealing KP for picks/young players (e.g. Booker), then they need to go all in on the tank and move Melo. Increase the odds of their 2018 #1 being top 5 along with the Nets.
absolutely true, say knicks did brown 3 and bkn first for kp...
trade melo and knicks suck again...
imagine having a core of jackson, brown, say monk at 8, willy then 2 of doncic, ayton or porter?
than just skipping the exit interview. It just doesn't make sense.
i think its more about kp ignoring hornacek and phils overtures to speak to him, i think him skipping the exit meeting was one thing and they understood he was frustrated but not responding to them i think that is ehat is fueling everything
What is the definitive reporting on this?
I think you approach this from too negative a position on KP. Even the "good story" one could tell about Phil Jackson -- the successful coach -- has him being a button pusher. We see that in everything he's done here too. So to frame this as they just want to talk and be all nice I think ignores the fact that Phil's approach is to intentionally be an asshole.
Look, the basis of all this is that KP is fed up with the dysfunction and mean spiritedness. Isnt that a good thing? He's not demanding more shots or sulking over not being the highest paid player. He's furious that the team suck.
Knicks fans call Melo a loser because he purportedly doesnt care about winning. And KP is entitled and bratty because he react badly to all the losing. Knicks fans need to get their shit together.
can't believe how many Knicks fans would be excited by deals like Bradley, Crowder and the Celtics pick... are we trying to win a title or be a 40 win team? Just curious.
Ainge is a ruthless trader -- people dont like dealing with him because he feels he has to kill on every trade. And here Phil is thinking with his dick and not his head. I just feel like the end game is that Ainge gives us one really good pick (#3) and then a bunch of players Ainge doesnt want to pay anyway.
One of these guys is frustrated with the culture and the shenanigans that have plagued this team for decades, and the other one is trying to win a pissing match. If you can't figure out who's who by now...
Ainge is a ruthless trader -- people dont like dealing with him because he feels he has to kill on every trade. And here Phil is thinking with his dick and not his head. I just feel like the end game is that Ainge gives us one really good pick (#3) and then a bunch of players Ainge doesnt want to pay anyway.
I suspect this is what happens (if KP is dealt) we get guys like Smart/Crowder and 2 picks from the Celtics, KP goes on to be a monster in Boston and we battle for the 7 seed wooo
That's why I wouldn't move him. It's Booker, #4 plus. Like I've said on previous threads KP has done things that no player in NBA history has done in his first two years, 2000 pts, 1000 rebounds 100 3's and 250 blocks. Need a shitload or forget about it. Not all good employees need to be chummy with their boss. Just productive.
Why would Phoenix deal Booker for KP? They are both about the same age and Booker will be an unstoppable offensive player...think Kay Thompson x 2. And you guys want the 4th pick thrown in...lol. KP has all the ability in the world but a lot of stuff that has happened this past year is a little alarming (regressed this year as a player both offensively and defensively, attitude, etc...). If you get 2 assets (chriss and 4th pick) you make that deal. You guys expect a return as if u r trading the Greek Freak
wouldn't personally do Booker and 4 but so far that's the only "proposed" deal where I could accept it. That said the Suns apparently have told ALL teams they won't move Booker and why would they? Suns minus Booker and the pick are Bledsoe/KP/Chriss/Bender... meh
Suns minus Bender or Chriss but keeping Booker
Bledsoe/Booker/KP/Chriss or Bender... that's intriguing.
Why would Phoenix deal Booker for KP? They are both about the same age and Booker will be an unstoppable offensive player...think Kay Thompson x 2. And you guys want the 4th pick thrown in...lol. KP has all the ability in the world but a lot of stuff that has happened this past year is a little alarming (regressed this year as a player both offensively and defensively, attitude, etc...). If you get 2 assets (chriss and 4th pick) you make that deal. You guys expect a return as if u r trading the Greek Freak
Umm what? KP is a much better player than booker. I say this as a booker fan. He's a better offensive prospect than klay Thompson. He's a shit tom worse defensively. KP has much better 2 way potential. Booker and #4...I'll passz
Ainge is a ruthless trader -- people dont like dealing with him because he feels he has to kill on every trade. And here Phil is thinking with his dick and not his head. I just feel like the end game is that Ainge gives us one really good pick (#3) and then a bunch of players Ainge doesnt want to pay anyway.
I suspect this is what happens (if KP is dealt) we get guys like Smart/Crowder and 2 picks from the Celtics, KP goes on to be a monster in Boston and we battle for the 7 seed wooo
This will happen. Book it. Phil has shown no indication through his time here or before that he can put aside his own ego for the betterment of the franchise. He's a trainwreck of a GM and a KP trade for Smart, Crowder, and the #3 would be his piece de resistance. If that were to happen, I'd be done rooting for this franchise and I'd consider becoming a BK Nets fan. They might suck and have a terrible short-term future but they don't seem to be in anywhere near a toxic situation as the Knicks.
Why would Phoenix deal Booker for KP? They are both about the same age and Booker will be an unstoppable offensive player...think Kay Thompson x 2. And you guys want the 4th pick thrown in...lol. KP has all the ability in the world but a lot of stuff that has happened this past year is a little alarming (regressed this year as a player both offensively and defensively, attitude, etc...). If you get 2 assets (chriss and 4th pick) you make that deal. You guys expect a return as if u r trading the Greek Freak
The issue is... Greek Freak himself wasn't "that good" until mid-season 2016 (I've loved him since day 1, honestly going over the top to support him despite his numbers) but first 2 seasons- 13.1 PER, .80 WS/48... first 3 seasons 15.3 PER, 0.96 WS/48
KP first 2 seasons 17.6 PER, .101 WS/48
These offers/ideas are valued as if KP is 25-26 and "is what he is" (which is already very, very good despite 3 coaches, tons of teammates etc)
can't believe how many Knicks fans would be excited by deals like Bradley, Crowder and the Celtics pick... are we trying to win a title or be a 40 win team? Just curious.
This is what I don't get it. Also, I guess Woj isn't making this up because he hates the Knicks huh? I'm still shocked by that interview last night.
For Big Chief Triangle all about creating a winning culture, he sure has a strange way of doing it. Treating your 2 best players like shit in the public. Next year should be fun.
that secretly wishes that a shitty trade with the Celtics goes through and the final years of Phil's life are spent watching his legacy as a coach be forgotten and his tenure as a GM define our collective memory. A fitting end to this miserable egomaniac's career. Watch the very thing--his own bloated self-importance--that is driving this behavior be punctured by the media.
but I don't know what anyone can offer that would make me even think about it. I guess Boston can put a package together that would make me think, but I don't think I'd pull the trigger. KP is a building block that you would pray an early draft pick would turn into.
I don't know if this is an ego thing with Phil or if he's trying to send a message to the kid, but I don't like it at all. I'm not excusing KP's behavior either.
It seems the new theme is anti-management, which is dumb. It's his employer and he should tell them how he feels in his exit interview if he wants to do things the right way. There is no justifying skipping a meeting with your bosses.
that secretly wishes that a shitty trade with the Celtics goes through and the final years of Phil's life are spent watching his legacy as a coach be forgotten and his tenure as a GM define our collective memory. A fitting end to this miserable egomaniac's career. Watch the very thing--his own bloated self-importance--that is driving this behavior be punctured by the media.
If there is any part of you that hopes we make a devastating trade because you don't like our president who will continue to make $20M, than you are a terrible fan and you should step away from the game for a little while.
that secretly wishes that a shitty trade with the Celtics goes through and the final years of Phil's life are spent watching his legacy as a coach be forgotten and his tenure as a GM define our collective memory. A fitting end to this miserable egomaniac's career. Watch the very thing--his own bloated self-importance--that is driving this behavior be punctured by the media.
The only ones that suffer from this are Knicks fans. It won't bother Phil in the least. He'll ride off into the sunset, smoke peyote day and night and laugh his ass off on the beach while thinking about how to spend the fortune he stole from Dolan. Us Knicks fans left with the aftermath
but I don't know what anyone can offer that would make me even think about it. I guess Boston can put a package together that would make me think, but I don't think I'd pull the trigger. KP is a building block that you would pray an early draft pick would turn into.
I don't know if this is an ego thing with Phil or if he's trying to send a message to the kid, but I don't like it at all. I'm not excusing KP's behavior either.
It seems the new theme is anti-management, which is dumb. It's his employer and he should tell them how he feels in his exit interview if he wants to do things the right way. There is no justifying skipping a meeting with your bosses.
skipping the meeting is one thing, you can call it a a lapse in judgement or whatever bit the continuing not answering hornaceks and phils calls is worrisome
has systematically failed at their job and shows little indication of taking accountability for their actions, but instead puts its employees out to dry, I see little reason why an employee should feel obliged to go to a meeting.
Now someone will respond with some sanctimonious bullshit about the sanctity of contracts, but let's be clear: management would tear up KP's contract to shreds and write up an even more limiting one if it could and vice versa for a player. It's a question of power and I don't fault KP for exercising it when management has not given him any reason to give it the benefit of the doubt. And the fact that KP is a millionaire isn't going to distract me from that underlying issue.
This new theme on bbi is so beyond stupid and unrealistic.
He's employed by the Knicks. He should follow their rules. This ridiculous idea that these players should do whatever they want when they disagree with how the team is run is stupid.
RE: RE: I guess it can't hurt to listen to offers,
but I don't know what anyone can offer that would make me even think about it. I guess Boston can put a package together that would make me think, but I don't think I'd pull the trigger. KP is a building block that you would pray an early draft pick would turn into.
I don't know if this is an ego thing with Phil or if he's trying to send a message to the kid, but I don't like it at all. I'm not excusing KP's behavior either.
It seems the new theme is anti-management, which is dumb. It's his employer and he should tell them how he feels in his exit interview if he wants to do things the right way. There is no justifying skipping a meeting with your bosses.
skipping the meeting is one thing, you can call it a a lapse in judgement or whatever bit the continuing not answering hornaceks and phils calls is worrisome
So "be worried" for now. He wants to stay, his brother has openly said that, nothing to indicate he doesn't. Fly over and meet with him. You can send Hornacek all you want but be a man, a 71 year old man and speak face to face. Air out your issues.
RE: This new theme on bbi is so beyond stupid and unrealistic.
He's employed by the Knicks. He should follow their rules. This ridiculous idea that these players should do whatever they want when they disagree with how the team is run is stupid.
You're excellent at creating straw-men and then pummeling them. Good for you.
Seeing Porzingis in a Celtics uniform will drive a stake through the
He's employed by the Knicks. He should follow their rules. This ridiculous idea that these players should do whatever they want when they disagree with how the team is run is stupid.
I think the divide on this issue comes down to "now what?". There are those on BBI who think Beckham's OTA stuff = "no way I'm giving him a big contract when it's up" and those people are likely the same ones who are willing to trade KP based on the exit meeting stuff. I think you can both suggest it was potentially the "wrong" move and still agree (not suggesting YOU have to) but people can.. that it's nowhere near grounds to trade/consider trading such a player.
RE: Yeah lets root for our team to suck for the next 10 years
He's employed by the Knicks. He should follow their rules. This ridiculous idea that these players should do whatever they want when they disagree with how the team is run is stupid.
I think the divide on this issue comes down to "now what?". There are those on BBI who think Beckham's OTA stuff = "no way I'm giving him a big contract when it's up" and those people are likely the same ones who are willing to trade KP based on the exit meeting stuff. I think you can both suggest it was potentially the "wrong" move and still agree (not suggesting YOU have to) but people can.. that it's nowhere near grounds to trade/consider trading such a player.
I think it was wrong. I think a professional should show up to the meeting and tell management what he thinks. Isn't that what an exit meeting is for? Tell them that you are unhappy with how they are running things.
It's certainly not something that would make me trade the player, especially not KP. I think it should be a teaching lesson for the kid on how to be a professional.
RE: RE: I guess it can't hurt to listen to offers,
but I don't know what anyone can offer that would make me even think about it. I guess Boston can put a package together that would make me think, but I don't think I'd pull the trigger. KP is a building block that you would pray an early draft pick would turn into.
I don't know if this is an ego thing with Phil or if he's trying to send a message to the kid, but I don't like it at all. I'm not excusing KP's behavior either.
It seems the new theme is anti-management, which is dumb. It's his employer and he should tell them how he feels in his exit interview if he wants to do things the right way. There is no justifying skipping a meeting with your bosses.
skipping the meeting is one thing, you can call it a a lapse in judgement or whatever bit the continuing not answering hornaceks and phils calls is worrisome
What's the reporting on this? Honest question. Looking for a link.
RE: RE: This new theme on bbi is so beyond stupid and unrealistic.
He's employed by the Knicks. He should follow their rules. This ridiculous idea that these players should do whatever they want when they disagree with how the team is run is stupid.
I think the divide on this issue comes down to "now what?". There are those on BBI who think Beckham's OTA stuff = "no way I'm giving him a big contract when it's up" and those people are likely the same ones who are willing to trade KP based on the exit meeting stuff. I think you can both suggest it was potentially the "wrong" move and still agree (not suggesting YOU have to) but people can.. that it's nowhere near grounds to trade/consider trading such a player.
the people that would be ok with trading kp, for me anyway, need to be blown away...
i wouldnt even trade him for booker and 4...i am not giving him away
Could KP have handled this better? Probably. Could Phil Jackson have handled it better? Most likely. Should we expect more from Phil than KP? I think so. Has Phil earned the benefit of the doubt via his operation of the Knicks? Hell no.
RE: RE: RE: I guess it can't hurt to listen to offers,
but I don't know what anyone can offer that would make me even think about it. I guess Boston can put a package together that would make me think, but I don't think I'd pull the trigger. KP is a building block that you would pray an early draft pick would turn into.
I don't know if this is an ego thing with Phil or if he's trying to send a message to the kid, but I don't like it at all. I'm not excusing KP's behavior either.
It seems the new theme is anti-management, which is dumb. It's his employer and he should tell them how he feels in his exit interview if he wants to do things the right way. There is no justifying skipping a meeting with your bosses.
skipping the meeting is one thing, you can call it a a lapse in judgement or whatever bit the continuing not answering hornaceks and phils calls is worrisome
What's the reporting on this? Honest question. Looking for a link.
hornacek during the combine said he called and texted him no response...
phil last night said no calls answered made it sound like he got a text or 2...
that these exit meetings will be like normal exit meetings, where you can air out grievances as reasonable people.
Everything Phil has done in his time here suggests otherwise. From the bizarre potshots at 3 point shooting and LeBron to the indecisiveness over whether trying to rebuild or contend (can't do both at the same time) to shitty FA signings to using the media to smear and pressure one of his best (and admittedly flawed) players into waiving the NTC that he gave him.
Phil has lost the benefit of the doubt from many fans and likely from KP too as he should.
To is Boston. I want the 3rd pick this year and the Nets pick next year just to start. I'd also ask for Jaylen Brown and possibly another first in 2019 or a few seconds in 2017/2018.
this, suns do not have enough to make me want to do a trade...
top 5 this year is nice but next years picks are the value and like dan said they might be too good to get top 5...
Danny would be righl;y vilified forever if he came anywhere near that.
I think that you guys have to come to grips with the fact that the minimum that you would accept is way way more than anyone would give. It's likely he's still on your team tomorrow.
some others I'm not even defending KP in regard to the interview or the texts but Phil has set up a situation where the coach looks like a puppet for the president and weak. Further, we don't even know what the texts said. What if the texts were inflammatory? What if they were a continuation of what upset him in the first place? It's funny, Hornacek might be the worst coach in the NBA (or the best) and we wouldn't even know because he's basically an "assistant" coach with an Asian porn fiend sitting next to him reporting back to Phil.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I guess it can't hurt to listen to offers,
hornacek during the combine said he called and texted him no response...
phil last night said no calls answered made it sound like he got a text or 2...
Actually, Hornacek said he sent a text to KP, and didnt answer when asked if KP responded. So you have no idea if KP responded. You also have no idea what the text said. Maybe it wasnt a question or request. Maybe it was "I know you're frustrated, we're working our asses off. We see the same problems and are addressing them". Doesnt need a response, and if it did a text may not be best.
So it's irresponsible for people to go around saying KP is ignoring Horny's texts.
I'll have to get a transcript to see what Phil said. Link - ( New Window )
To is Boston. I want the 3rd pick this year and the Nets pick next year just to start. I'd also ask for Jaylen Brown and possibly another first in 2019 or a few seconds in 2017/2018.
this, suns do not have enough to make me want to do a trade...
top 5 this year is nice but next years picks are the value and like dan said they might be too good to get top 5...
Danny would be righl;y vilified forever if he came anywhere near that.
I think that you guys have to come to grips with the fact that the minimum that you would accept is way way more than anyone would give. It's likely he's still on your team tomorrow.
come to grips? ok so then the knicks keep kp, what is there to come to grips to?
and you know ainge is the same guy who offered four firsts for justice winslow right?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I guess it can't hurt to listen to offers,
hornacek during the combine said he called and texted him no response...
phil last night said no calls answered made it sound like he got a text or 2...
Actually, Hornacek said he sent a text to KP, and didnt answer when asked if KP responded. So you have no idea if KP responded. You also have no idea what the text said. Maybe it wasnt a question or request. Maybe it was "I know you're frustrated, we're working our asses off. We see the same problems and are addressing them". Doesnt need a response, and if it did a text may not be best.
So it's irresponsible for people to go around saying KP is ignoring Horny's texts.
I'll have to get a transcript to see what Phil said. Link - ( New Window )
To is Boston. I want the 3rd pick this year and the Nets pick next year just to start. I'd also ask for Jaylen Brown and possibly another first in 2019 or a few seconds in 2017/2018.
this, suns do not have enough to make me want to do a trade...
top 5 this year is nice but next years picks are the value and like dan said they might be too good to get top 5...
Danny would be righl;y vilified forever if he came anywhere near that.
I think that you guys have to come to grips with the fact that the minimum that you would accept is way way more than anyone would give. It's likely he's still on your team tomorrow.
This is the second or third time you've said this. Yet you thought the putrid suggestion of Bradley, Crowder and a 1st was very fair. You are out of your mind. KP is a potential top 10 NBA player down the road. Yet you think a couple of 1st rounders and Jaylen Brown is excessive? Nobody knows how the draft picks will turn out. They could end up total busts. We all know what KP can be. He's got superstar upside. You are falling in love a little too much with your boy Ainges obsession for accumulating draft picks. You use draft picks HOPING to get a guy like KP. Who's also still only 21 years old.
If KP were in a Celtics uniform, you wouldn't be suggesting that Brown and a couple of 1sts is so ludicrous. The fans that watch him every day know how special he can be, otherwise their wouldn't be such universal disdain for any of these trade ideas. Avery Bradley and Crowder? Get the F outta here with that garbage.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I guess it can't hurt to listen to offers,
Yeah, there is no evidence of that. You'd think, as leaky as shit is, that you'd have an express report that Kris is ignoring the Knicks. You dont. You have Marc Berman (a professional idiot) reporting his own suppositions from unanswered questions.
by the thinnest of hairs on sticking with this franchise. I could never change who I root for, it's Knicks or casual fan of NBA. But, I'm real nervous for tonight. I really want to see the Knicks build around KP. I won't say if they trade him, I'm done because obviously there are packages that can't be passed up. I just think every time I get even the least bit excited for something involving the Knicks, I just open my legs wider for a bigger kick to the nuts. It's sad it's come to this, but KP is the only reason I even watched the Knicks last year.
To is Boston. I want the 3rd pick this year and the Nets pick next year just to start. I'd also ask for Jaylen Brown and possibly another first in 2019 or a few seconds in 2017/2018.
this, suns do not have enough to make me want to do a trade...
top 5 this year is nice but next years picks are the value and like dan said they might be too good to get top 5...
Danny would be righl;y vilified forever if he came anywhere near that.
I think that you guys have to come to grips with the fact that the minimum that you would accept is way way more than anyone would give. It's likely he's still on your team tomorrow.
come to grips? ok so then the knicks keep kp, what is there to come to grips to?
and you know ainge is the same guy who offered four firsts for justice winslow right?
Firstly, nobody has said which picks they were. Two of them were the number 16 and 28 from that draft and the other would be future picks. As likely as not, they would be the C's own picks. Here, you're talking two #3 picks and a potential #1 pick. It's not reasonable. But since that's all that you would accept, then you're saying that you wold do no trade at all. Which is fine, if you're the GM.
To is Boston. I want the 3rd pick this year and the Nets pick next year just to start. I'd also ask for Jaylen Brown and possibly another first in 2019 or a few seconds in 2017/2018.
this, suns do not have enough to make me want to do a trade...
top 5 this year is nice but next years picks are the value and like dan said they might be too good to get top 5...
Danny would be righl;y vilified forever if he came anywhere near that.
I think that you guys have to come to grips with the fact that the minimum that you would accept is way way more than anyone would give. It's likely he's still on your team tomorrow.
This is the second or third time you've said this. Yet you thought the putrid suggestion of Bradley, Crowder and a 1st was very fair. You are out of your mind. KP is a potential top 10 NBA player down the road. Yet you think a couple of 1st rounders and Jaylen Brown is excessive? Nobody knows how the draft picks will turn out. They could end up total busts. We all know what KP can be. He's got superstar upside. You are falling in love a little too much with your boy Ainges obsession for accumulating draft picks. You use draft picks HOPING to get a guy like KP. Who's also still only 21 years old.
If KP were in a Celtics uniform, you wouldn't be suggesting that Brown and a couple of 1sts is so ludicrous. The fans that watch him every day know how special he can be, otherwise their wouldn't be such universal disdain for any of these trade ideas. Avery Bradley and Crowder? Get the F outta here with that garbage.
Now I've said it 4 times. I think it's you who is doing the over-valuing.
Yeah, there is no evidence of that. You'd think, as leaky as shit is, that you'd have an express report that Kris is ignoring the Knicks. You dont. You have Marc Berman (a professional idiot) reporting his own suppositions from unanswered questions.
the whole thing just pisses me off, both sides all of this could of been avoided if they just talked before kp left, i dont care if they sat there yelling at each other...
i will never stop rooting for the knickd, i am just not built that way but this shot is just getting annoying
To is Boston. I want the 3rd pick this year and the Nets pick next year just to start. I'd also ask for Jaylen Brown and possibly another first in 2019 or a few seconds in 2017/2018.
this, suns do not have enough to make me want to do a trade...
top 5 this year is nice but next years picks are the value and like dan said they might be too good to get top 5...
Danny would be righl;y vilified forever if he came anywhere near that.
I think that you guys have to come to grips with the fact that the minimum that you would accept is way way more than anyone would give. It's likely he's still on your team tomorrow.
This is the second or third time you've said this. Yet you thought the putrid suggestion of Bradley, Crowder and a 1st was very fair. You are out of your mind. KP is a potential top 10 NBA player down the road. Yet you think a couple of 1st rounders and Jaylen Brown is excessive? Nobody knows how the draft picks will turn out. They could end up total busts. We all know what KP can be. He's got superstar upside. You are falling in love a little too much with your boy Ainges obsession for accumulating draft picks. You use draft picks HOPING to get a guy like KP. Who's also still only 21 years old.
If KP were in a Celtics uniform, you wouldn't be suggesting that Brown and a couple of 1sts is so ludicrous. The fans that watch him every day know how special he can be, otherwise their wouldn't be such universal disdain for any of these trade ideas. Avery Bradley and Crowder? Get the F outta here with that garbage.
Now I've said it 4 times. I think it's you who is doing the over-valuing.
It's not just us. Have you paid attention to some of the league wide tweets coming down? Apparently there are some players on other teams that are pretty excited to try to persuade KP to their teams as well. Durant seems like a pretty big fan based on his prior comments, etc...but yeah, the fans who watch him every day and don't want him traded are over valuing him. You think that if he was being overvalued, there would be SOMEBODY, somewhere advocating for them to trade him for a package like you suggest? It is absolutely 100% universal that it should take a huge haul if they deal him. So yeah, I'm gonna go with it being YOU that is off on this.
said there HAS been communication between KP and the Knicks, it's just been limited.
-Knicks met with Collins
Begley tried to pass off info he got from Janis back in April as new intel two days ago, then minutes after it was announced that Phil had an interview coming up on MSG last night Begley corrected himself that there had been communication because he knew Phil was going to mention that there had been communication. Its easy to spew bullshit when no one from the Knicks ever talks, but he had to cover himself once he knew the bullshit would get called out.
9deleted stuff)...
It's not just us. Have you paid attention to some of the league wide tweets coming down? Apparently there are some players on other teams that are pretty excited to try to persuade KP to their teams as well. Durant seems like a pretty big fan based on his prior comments, etc...but yeah, the fans who watch him every day and don't want him traded are over valuing him. You think that if he was being overvalued, there would be SOMEBODY, somewhere advocating for them to trade him for a package like you suggest? It is absolutely 100% universal that it should take a huge haul if they deal him. So yeah, I'm gonna go with it being YOU that is off on this.
I have paid attention. The reports I saw were that the club itself is asking for a top 4 pick and an established starting player. That's way less than a #3, A#3 player last year and for sure starter in time, and a potential #1, best player in the draft. Heck, you might not have thought it was fair, but #3, Bradley and Crowder actually *exceed* that asking price if what was reported is true. Although, to me Crowder makes little sense if you're taking Josh Jackson.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Only team I'm trading KP
9deleted stuff)...
It's not just us. Have you paid attention to some of the league wide tweets coming down? Apparently there are some players on other teams that are pretty excited to try to persuade KP to their teams as well. Durant seems like a pretty big fan based on his prior comments, etc...but yeah, the fans who watch him every day and don't want him traded are over valuing him. You think that if he was being overvalued, there would be SOMEBODY, somewhere advocating for them to trade him for a package like you suggest? It is absolutely 100% universal that it should take a huge haul if they deal him. So yeah, I'm gonna go with it being YOU that is off on this.
I have paid attention. The reports I saw were that the club itself is asking for a top 4 pick and an established starting player. That's way less than a #3, A#3 player last year and for sure starter in time, and a potential #1, best player in the draft. Heck, you might not have thought it was fair, but #3, Bradley and Crowder actually *exceed* that asking price if what was reported is true. Although, to me Crowder makes little sense if you're taking Josh Jackson.
Crowder and Bradley don't make sense at all of the Knicks. Knicks should be rebuilding. Bradley and Crowder are in their primes. They don't align with what the Knicks should be doing unless Phil is still trying to compete.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Only team I'm trading KP
9deleted stuff)...
It's not just us. Have you paid attention to some of the league wide tweets coming down? Apparently there are some players on other teams that are pretty excited to try to persuade KP to their teams as well. Durant seems like a pretty big fan based on his prior comments, etc...but yeah, the fans who watch him every day and don't want him traded are over valuing him. You think that if he was being overvalued, there would be SOMEBODY, somewhere advocating for them to trade him for a package like you suggest? It is absolutely 100% universal that it should take a huge haul if they deal him. So yeah, I'm gonna go with it being YOU that is off on this.
I have paid attention. The reports I saw were that the club itself is asking for a top 4 pick and an established starting player. That's way less than a #3, A#3 player last year and for sure starter in time, and a potential #1, best player in the draft. Heck, you might not have thought it was fair, but #3, Bradley and Crowder actually *exceed* that asking price if what was reported is true. Although, to me Crowder makes little sense if you're taking Josh Jackson.
Crowder and Bradley don't make sense at all of the Knicks. Knicks should be rebuilding. Bradley and Crowder are in their primes. They don't align with what the Knicks should be doing unless Phil is still trying to compete.
But that's why it would make perfect sense for Phil. Recall his signing Rose and Noah all the while claiming to rebuild. He has not stuck to a plan and that shambolic approach is the reason we're here today.
And Crowder is a role player. That would be a complete disaster of a trade for the Knicks. And nobody has a clue what the Knicks asking price is. I'm venturing a guess that 1 year of Avery Bradley, Crowder and Josh Jackson wouldn't fit the bill of "exceeding" their asking price.
What's the need to listen to reports? Listen to Phil Jackson himself. He said last night he would want 2 starters and a draft pick. Why the hell he would say that is beyond me.
Also why didn't Hornacek, Phil or someone from the Knicks go to KPs apartment to sit down with him and talk it out. If your girlfriend, wife or family member is pissed at you, do you stop trying after they don't return your texts or calls? No make an effort to patch things up. He's the most important person in the franchise right now. Shit go take a trip to Latvia to visit him.
Instead Phil Jackson fires his favorite coach who was supposed to train him all summer and publicly threaten to trade him.
I have no idea how anyone can defend this moron running the Knicks. They guy does nothing right.
What's the need to listen to reports? Listen to Phil Jackson himself. He said last night he would want 2 starters and a draft pick. Why the hell he would say that is beyond me.
Also why didn't Hornacek, Phil or someone from the Knicks go to KPs apartment to sit down with him and talk it out. If your girlfriend, wife or family member is pissed at you, do you stop trying after they don't return your texts or calls? No make an effort to patch things up. He's the most important person in the franchise right now. Shit go take a trip to Latvia to visit him.
Instead Phil Jackson fires his favorite coach who was supposed to train him all summer and publicly threaten to trade him.
I have no idea how anyone can defend this moron running the Knicks. They guy does nothing right.
What's the need to listen to reports? Listen to Phil Jackson himself. He said last night he would want 2 starters and a draft pick. Why the hell he would say that is beyond me.
Also why didn't Hornacek, Phil or someone from the Knicks go to KPs apartment to sit down with him and talk it out. If your girlfriend, wife or family member is pissed at you, do you stop trying after they don't return your texts or calls? No make an effort to patch things up. He's the most important person in the franchise right now. Shit go take a trip to Latvia to visit him.
Instead Phil Jackson fires his favorite coach who was supposed to train him all summer and publicly threaten to trade him.
I have no idea how anyone can defend this moron running the Knicks. They guy does nothing right.
Spurs want a top 10 pick for him...meanwhile the Knicks have to buy out Melo. If that doesnt tell you how bad Phil is at his job I dont know what will.
Spurs want a top 10 pick for him...meanwhile the Knicks have to buy out Melo. If that doesnt tell you how bad Phil is at his job I dont know what will.
there is a difference between wanting a top 10 pick and getting a top 10 pick, anyone who trades a top 10 pick for aldrisge is a fucking moron
44 and 58 to move up, begely specualting its josh hart
good luck. The 58th pick has close to zero value.
josh hart is mocked to go early 2nd, my guess is they are packaging those 2 to jjst move up in the 2md round..
yeah, and I'm saying I have doubts that any team is going to take 44 and 58 for an early second rounder. The drop off from the first half of the second round to the second half is huge. Usually, it's easy to buy those late second rounders because teams with roster crunches can't use them.
Spurs want a top 10 pick for him...meanwhile the Knicks have to buy out Melo. If that doesnt tell you how bad Phil is at his job I dont know what will.
there is a difference between wanting a top 10 pick and getting a top 10 pick, anyone who trades a top 10 pick for aldrisge is a fucking moron
agree on that. the point is that one guy is setting value high, while the other guy has his hitman, Rosen, writing an article on all of KP's flaws and why he should be dealt (after saying that Melo sucks and that he has to be traded). Setting market vs. devaluing assets.
44 and 58 to move up, begely specualting its josh hart
good luck. The 58th pick has close to zero value.
josh hart is mocked to go early 2nd, my guess is they are packaging those 2 to jjst move up in the 2md round..
yeah, and I'm saying I have doubts that any team is going to take 44 and 58 for an early second rounder. The drop off from the first half of the second round to the second half is huge. Usually, it's easy to buy those late second rounders because teams with roster crunches can't use them.
yeah i get ehat you are saying, probably wont know if it works until that pick comes...
portland almost has to trade a contract with the salary cap dropping thwy are over the luxury tax..
Is world wide windhorst serious? Either yesterday or a few days ago he reports that the Cavs had a deal in place for Kevin Love for the Suns 4th pick to flip for Paul George. Now he completely dismissing any chance of moving Love for PG or Butler due to lack of interest in Love. Can he atleast admit he was dead wrong a few days ago? Was he lied to or was he just completely making shit up.
This is the same guy who was declaring on sportscenter that lebron wasn't going to Cleveland... just as Lebron was announcing he was returning to Cle.
I know there's ton of bad NBA reporters but he takes the cake.
Is world wide windhorst serious? Either yesterday or a few days ago he reports that the Cavs had a deal in place for Kevin Love for the Suns 4th pick to flip for Paul George. Now he completely dismissing any chance of moving Love for PG or Butler due to lack of interest in Love. Can he atleast admit he was dead wrong a few days ago? Was he lied to or was he just completely making shit up.
This is the same guy who was declaring on sportscenter that lebron wasn't going to Cleveland... just as Lebron was announcing he was returning to Cle.
I know there's ton of bad NBA reporters but he takes the cake.
not defending windbag but a lot reporters are speculating griffin leaked that to make the cavs look bad
It looks like he's a sports radio host in Phoenix but you never know with these things...
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 41m41 minutes ago
Another source tells me #Suns & #Knicks are in fact "down the road" on #Porzingis ..."Bledsoe, Chriss, and the 4th gets it done" #NBADraft
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 1h1 hour ago
The #Suns have gotten numerous calls on 4th pick & held firm their preference is to make the pick unless they get blown away #NBADraft
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 1h1 hour ago
I am told #Suns hv said they will not give up Booker in any deal, or two young players, but would trade a vet and young guy for #Porzingis
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
...multiple players and multiple picks for #Porzingis, they are now at 2 players and a pick. And like a player and a pick for Porzingis.
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
In the last 12 hours the #Knicks have become much more flexible in trying to make a deal for a top 5 pick. They started at...
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
Source tells me #Suns are hesitant to deal two players and the pick for #Porzingis "won't do two players"
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
#NBA Source tells me #Knicks have told #Porzingis a #Suns deal is close, Porzingis brother told my source the deal is "likely" #NBADraft
But how do you go from reporting that they had a deal agreed upon for the 4th pick to Love not generating enough interest in 48 hours. Griffin doesn't matter that much.
It's just lame that he could throw out complete bullshit and not be held accountable.
It looks like he's a sports radio host in Phoenix but you never know with these things...
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 41m41 minutes ago
Another source tells me #Suns & #Knicks are in fact "down the road" on #Porzingis ..."Bledsoe, Chriss, and the 4th gets it done" #NBADraft
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 1h1 hour ago
The #Suns have gotten numerous calls on 4th pick & held firm their preference is to make the pick unless they get blown away #NBADraft
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 1h1 hour ago
I am told #Suns hv said they will not give up Booker in any deal, or two young players, but would trade a vet and young guy for #Porzingis
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
...multiple players and multiple picks for #Porzingis, they are now at 2 players and a pick. And like a player and a pick for Porzingis.
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
In the last 12 hours the #Knicks have become much more flexible in trying to make a deal for a top 5 pick. They started at...
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
Source tells me #Suns are hesitant to deal two players and the pick for #Porzingis "won't do two players"
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
#NBA Source tells me #Knicks have told #Porzingis a #Suns deal is close, Porzingis brother told my source the deal is "likely" #NBADraft
I have no problem trading Porzingis. But these deals are bullshit and horseshit squared. I would need Booker, the 4th pick, next year's pick, and a fucking swap down the line.
It looks like he's a sports radio host in Phoenix but you never know with these things...
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 41m41 minutes ago
Another source tells me #Suns & #Knicks are in fact "down the road" on #Porzingis ..."Bledsoe, Chriss, and the 4th gets it done" #NBADraft
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 1h1 hour ago
The #Suns have gotten numerous calls on 4th pick & held firm their preference is to make the pick unless they get blown away #NBADraft
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 1h1 hour ago
I am told #Suns hv said they will not give up Booker in any deal, or two young players, but would trade a vet and young guy for #Porzingis
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
...multiple players and multiple picks for #Porzingis, they are now at 2 players and a pick. And like a player and a pick for Porzingis.
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
In the last 12 hours the #Knicks have become much more flexible in trying to make a deal for a top 5 pick. They started at...
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
Source tells me #Suns are hesitant to deal two players and the pick for #Porzingis "won't do two players"
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
#NBA Source tells me #Knicks have told #Porzingis a #Suns deal is close, Porzingis brother told my source the deal is "likely" #NBADraft
I have no problem trading Porzingis. But these deals are bullshit and horseshit squared. I would need Booker, the 4th pick, next year's pick, and a fucking swap down the line.
Gimme Bender too and take Noah
I guess it would have to be a 2019 unprotected pick
But how do you go from reporting that they had a deal agreed upon for the 4th pick to Love not generating enough interest in 48 hours. Griffin doesn't matter that much.
It's just lame that he could throw out complete bullshit and not be held accountable.
tyree we argue a lot on here, but i agree with you 100 percent on this, writers can get 95 percent wromg amd that 1 thing right they are revered for it...
i hate woj as a writer but no one comes close breaking stories
If Phil makes removing Noah a part of any KP deal,
Ugh. Nice player but he's always hurt and you only control him for 2 years. But I totally buy that Phil is looking to acquire vets so that he can get us to 45 wins or some bullshit and declare victory.
Isiah was bad, but there's been plenty of GMs who've made horrific trades involving draft picks that end up in the lottery. That's sort of a normal thing in the NBA. But what Phil is doing with KP is next-level malpractice.
Ugh. Nice player but he's always hurt and you only control him for 2 years. But I totally buy that Phil is looking to acquire vets so that he can get us to 45 wins or some bullshit and declare victory.
You aren't excited by the prospect of giving Bledsoe 5 for 205 in 2 years?
It helps. Bleadsoe, Melo, Criss, Willy. #4&8 would be Jackson and Monk. If we could move Lee for a Portland pick it's starts a nice rebuild.
Actually, cap wise, the better fit is Lee and KP for Bledsoe, Criss and the #8.
That would also allow the Knicks to spin off Bledsoe to another team with Melo to make the deal more palatable. For example, do the Cavs become more willing to deal Kyrie Irving in a deal for Melo (to a third team) if they are getting back Bledsoe?
I can't believe some of these trade offers. Did anyone watch the Suns last year? Chriss and Bender were complete garbage. And they have injury concerns about KP but not Bledsoe? Come onnnn.
You wanna talk about trading KP for Giannis, Brow, Jokic, KAT then that's obviously worth a discussion but also not happening. You just don't trade a guy like this at this point in his career. Case closed.
Ian Begley @IanBegley 2m2 minutes ago
Opposing executives say MIN is considering using No. 7 pick as part of package for a Butler trade: http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0669588485790767196-4
Steve PopperVerified account @StevePopper 5m5 minutes ago
Jay Williams just said that talking to a top 15 player in this draft the player told him Phil was falling in and out of sleep during workout
I can't believe some of these trade offers. Did anyone watch the Suns last year? Chriss and Bender were complete garbage. And they have injury concerns about KP but not Bledsoe? Come onnnn.
You wanna talk about trading KP for Giannis, Brow, Jokic, KAT then that's obviously worth a discussion but also not happening. You just don't trade a guy like this at this point in his career. Case closed.
THIS is hysterical.
ALL of those clubs would hang up laughing all the way at those trade offers.
It is one thing to like a player, it is another thing to have have delusional valuations on a player.
Steve PopperVerified account @StevePopper 5m5 minutes ago
Jay Williams just said that talking to a top 15 player in this draft the player told him Phil was falling in and out of sleep during workout
funny because everything we have heard from prospects was phil has been very active in the workouts...
there was a 2nd rounder i forfet who who said phil was on the court teaching...
but Pho has to throw in a #1 in 2020/1 that is unprotected.
Then trade Melo to Clev for two future #1s
That way you stockpile number one picks and your core is:
Jackson
Smith/Monk
Bender
Then you get another top 3 pick next year. Maybe even the #1 pick.
I love KP but he already has foot/leg problems. Might be the safer bet to deal him if you can get a haul in return
First off, I am a Cavs fan living in OH. the cavs are not able to trade away any 1st round picks, and even if they could, why on earth would they trade 2 for melo??? i understand fandom, but that is outrageous!
I can't believe some of these trade offers. Did anyone watch the Suns last year? Chriss and Bender were complete garbage. And they have injury concerns about KP but not Bledsoe? Come onnnn.
You wanna talk about trading KP for Giannis, Brow, Jokic, KAT then that's obviously worth a discussion but also not happening. You just don't trade a guy like this at this point in his career. Case closed.
THIS is hysterical.
ALL of those clubs would hang up laughing all the way at those trade offers.
It is one thing to like a player, it is another thing to have have delusional valuations on a player.
Your overall point might be true BUT say Anthony Davis (for example) suddenly asks out/becomes available... what players around the league do you think a presumably "rebuilding" team will be looking for? The KP/Bookers of the world. What is KP's floor? A very good NBA starter? His upside is what? Franchise player? How many guys under 23 do you take over KP? Keep KP.
Blazers Haven't Ruled Out Trading For LaMarcus Aldridge If Spurs Take Matching Salary: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/246417/Blazers-Havent-Ruled-Out-Trading-For-LaMarcus-Aldridge-If-Spurs-Take-Matching-Salary
but Pho has to throw in a #1 in 2020/1 that is unprotected.
Then trade Melo to Clev for two future #1s
That way you stockpile number one picks and your core is:
Jackson
Smith/Monk
Bender
Then you get another top 3 pick next year. Maybe even the #1 pick.
I love KP but he already has foot/leg problems. Might be the safer bet to deal him if you can get a haul in return
First off, I am a Cavs fan living in OH. the cavs are not able to trade away any 1st round picks, and even if they could, why on earth would they trade 2 for melo??? i understand fandom, but that is outrageous!
The issue is the Cavs can't trade their picks until 2021 and 2023 which reduces their value via trade. The flip side is at that point the Cavs likely aren't very good and the picks are valuable.
I can't believe some of these trade offers. Did anyone watch the Suns last year? Chriss and Bender were complete garbage. And they have injury concerns about KP but not Bledsoe? Come onnnn.
You wanna talk about trading KP for Giannis, Brow, Jokic, KAT then that's obviously worth a discussion but also not happening. You just don't trade a guy like this at this point in his career. Case closed.
THIS is hysterical.
ALL of those clubs would hang up laughing all the way at those trade offers.
It is one thing to like a player, it is another thing to have have delusional valuations on a player.
Similar to how the rest of the league is laughing at the Knicks for shopping Porzingis around? I also said it wasn't happening.
Giannis- no chance
KAT and Brow- you ever know but highly highly doubtful
Jokic- it's close. If I'm Denver I would do it. KP is an elite rim protector. I don't think people realize how unique that is with his shooting. I would venture to say many NBA execs would pick Porzingis over Jokic.
Steve PopperVerified account @StevePopper 5m5 minutes ago
Jay Williams just said that talking to a top 15 player in this draft the player told him Phil was falling in and out of sleep during workout
Statements like this make the current Media crop look like jokes. Jay Williams is a hack.
a boatload of picks if Booker isn't in the deal, and we need to get rid of salary.
Bledsoe, Chriss, #4, Sun's 2019 #1/ and Miami's 2018/2019 choice.
Still, it's depressing its come to this. If we tanked properly.. we have Porzingis and Jackson playing together.
I think KP is perennial All-Star if he stays healthy. They must really love Jackson to do this. I do too, but it was in the context of KP and Jackson playing together as a great fit. Giving up a future cornerstone because of an exit interview is risky.
is a good player but the Knicks won't be good within the next 1-2 seasons so you are adding a guy who you are either letting walk, trading somewhere else or giving 205 million from age 30 on...Booker isn't happening but Booker and #4 is the only deal I'd "live with" of the ones being suggested. Absolutely zero pressure to deal him. What happened to "monster" return or no deal?
Steve PopperVerified account @StevePopper 5m5 minutes ago
Jay Williams just said that talking to a top 15 player in this draft the player told him Phil was falling in and out of sleep during workout
Statements like this make the current Media crop look like jokes. Jay Williams is a hack.
I can't think any less of Phil Jackson and think he deserved to be fired awhile ago. But I agree that report is bullshit and highly doubtful.
is a good player but the Knicks won't be good within the next 1-2 seasons so you are adding a guy who you are either letting walk, trading somewhere else or giving 205 million from age 30 on...Booker isn't happening but Booker and #4 is the only deal I'd "live with" of the ones being suggested. Absolutely zero pressure to deal him. What happened to "monster" return or no deal?
Keep in mind that Bledsoe could be packaged with Melo to make a deal more palatable. Sometimes a monster deal is defined as WHERE the players involved in the deal end up.
For example, if you send Bledsoe and Melo to the Cavs in a 3 (or 4) team deal, does that free up the Cavs to include Irving in a deal?
but Pho has to throw in a #1 in 2020/1 that is unprotected.
Then trade Melo to Clev for two future #1s
That way you stockpile number one picks and your core is:
Jackson
Smith/Monk
Bender
Then you get another top 3 pick next year. Maybe even the #1 pick.
I love KP but he already has foot/leg problems. Might be the safer bet to deal him if you can get a haul in return
First off, I am a Cavs fan living in OH. the cavs are not able to trade away any 1st round picks, and even if they could, why on earth would they trade 2 for melo??? i understand fandom, but that is outrageous!
The issue is the Cavs can't trade their picks until 2021 and 2023 which reduces their value via trade. The flip side is at that point the Cavs likely aren't very good and the picks are valuable.
Yep Dan I agree that that should probably be a trade the Knicks look at. 2021/23 Cav picks could easily be like the Nets picks the Celtics got. I could see the Cavs doing it as a last ditch attempt to win another title before the window closes.
it's winning the lottery and reinvesting your winnings in more lottery tickets.
I couldn't agree more. Porzingis is already very good with upside to be great (Patrick and Melo get the "look at the PG's!!!" excuse and yet 20-21 year old KP does not?) and the upside to attract other players...
available. Lee and 58 for Rubio. Draft Monk. Keep KP. Thanks.
If they'll do that for Lee and 58, they'll do it for just Lee. Not one is signing up for $30 million of Courtney Lee if and only if they get the 58th pick in the draft.
available. Lee and 58 for Rubio. Draft Monk. Keep KP. Thanks.
If they'll do that for Lee and 58, they'll do it for just Lee. Not one is signing up for $30 million of Courtney Lee if and only if they get the 58th pick in the draft.
They can throw 58 at the Bulls in their Butler package. I just really like the idea of Rubio with KP (please stay) and Willy with whomever we take at 8. Rubio isn't a great player but I truly believe he will both improve us at the 1 and help develop our bigs.
Marc SteinVerified account @ESPNSteinLine 2m2 minutes ago
More
The Celtics remain in trade pursuit of Kristaps Porzingis, league sources say, trying to assemble a package to meet the Knicks' demands.
That guy tweets out complete bullshit and we all fall for it. He gets his name out there, gets followers and gets clicks. Unless it's Woj, Stein, Lowe I'm not believing it.
And as I write this Stein reports the Celtics are putting together a package to meet the Knicks demands. He'll be perfect for them and man will it hurt to see him in green.
I'm against any trade, but that package better start with
2017 3rd overall
Brooklyn 2018 pick
LA/ Sac pick 2018-2019
2019 Memphis pick.
What it really will be
3rd overall
Crowder
Smart or Bradley
me the logic of trading KP to a division rival? THE DUDE IS TWENTY ONE YEARS OLD. HE'LL BE IN OUR WAY FOR THE NEXT DECADE PLUS.
If you want to trade him, trade him to Phoenix. We only see them twice a year anyways.
Ugh. KP in Celtics green...enough to want to make me puke.
Understood. However if we can get a handful of potential top 5 picks and a nice young player then we're not competing with anyone for the near future. By the time those picks hopefully come of age, The Celts will be on the down side or at least will be able to compete with that version of them. You go for the best return.
wouldnt watch a core of Monk, Rubio, Jackson, Chriss and Willy but I'm failing to see who becomes our #1 or even #2 off the bat. I guess we will be hoping for Porter next year?
available. Lee and 58 for Rubio. Draft Monk. Keep KP. Thanks.
If they'll do that for Lee and 58, they'll do it for just Lee. Not one is signing up for $30 million of Courtney Lee if and only if they get the 58th pick in the draft.
They can throw 58 at the Bulls in their Butler package. I just really like the idea of Rubio with KP (please stay) and Willy with whomever we take at 8. Rubio isn't a great player but I truly believe he will both improve us at the 1 and help develop our bigs.
I'll guarantee you that there isnt a deal for Butler that will turn on whether CHI gets the 58 pick.
The 58 pick is like two guys haggling over the last $50 bucks on a $10k used car sale. They can stomp their feet until they're blue in the face, but neither is walking away over $50. It's a battle of the wills. And the Knicks should hold out in this hypothetical trade. The 58 pick is more meaningful to them given the chaff on their roster.
If it doesn't START with #3 and next year's Brooklyn pick,
I hang up the phone. I'm not really interested in any of their players.
This. Odds of either of those picks becoming as good as KP are slim, so it better be #3 and BKN 2018 + more picks (none of the players they'd include are game changers).
Otherwise, at least my local team (TWolves) have a bright future.
and Phil said "Future". How is Bledsoe "future"? How the fuck is trading a 21 year old unicorn "future"?
If it is about the future (which I doubt), then he needs to move Melo too. Suck as much as possible in 2018 and at least then ensure your own 2018 pick is top 5.
Phil Jackson is apparently willing to trade Kristaps Porzingis to a division rival but the Boston Celtics, as of now, are unwilling to meet his asking price, which would include two draft picks the Daily News has learned.
According to a Knicks source, Jackson is asking for the third overall pick in Thursday's draft as well as next year's Brooklyn pick along with Jaylen Brown and Jae Crowder. This version of the deal would not include Boston taking on Joakim Noah's contract.
The Celtics feel the price is far too high but they are open to tweaking the deal to include just one draft pick, either this year's No. 3 or next year's Brooklyn pick.
trade cant take the Lakers pick, that Lakers pick only comes to the Celtics if the Lakers end up picking between #2 and #5. If not it stays with the 76ers.
Phil Jackson is apparently willing to trade Kristaps Porzingis to a division rival but the Boston Celtics, as of now, are unwilling to meet his asking price, which would include two draft picks the Daily News has learned.
According to a Knicks source, Jackson is asking for the third overall pick in Thursday's draft as well as next year's Brooklyn pick along with Jaylen Brown and Jae Crowder. This version of the deal would not include Boston taking on Joakim Noah's contract.
The Celtics feel the price is far too high but they are open to tweaking the deal to include just one draft pick, either this year's No. 3 or next year's Brooklyn pick.
At a minimum, you get the 3 this year & Brooklyn's pick next year. At a minimum.
knicks asking fir 3 next years bkn pick, crowder and brown
Not enough. Honestly, it's not enough. It's Jackson (who has a hole in his game) and then the BK pick could be anywhere from 1 to mid lottery. This isnt like this year's BK pick where you know where it is.
We should get both BK picks in value plus Smart, and another ok #1. So that means we should next year's BK pick and what Philly gave up to move to #1, Smart, and another #1 somewhere.
But really, I dont want to trade KP. Cant I just root for him?
if the Knicks do a deal like that without at least 2 picks they should be contracted. The Knicks have zero reason to trade him unless they get a huge package back.
Josh Jackson is nothing to sneeze at. It looks like we are witnessing a war between Porz's brother (woj) and Phil (aldridge) in the media. Nothing is done yet and would think we would get more than Chriss, Bledsoe, and #4. That deal is light.
will go to Boston for Crowder 3 and the Lakers 2018 pick, Lakers will add PG13 and win 42 games. Ballin!
Or the Lakers pick will be number 1 and the Sixers keep it.
Not to beat a dead horse, but picks are nice but are highly risky. The Nets could become better than expected and the pick comes in around 10. I love
josh Jackson but want if he never becomes a good shooter? He's still a risky pick- they all are. Look at the shitty teams who have high picks every year. And do you trust Jackson to do this? This isn't Buford or Ainge.
You hope a top pick shows the potential KP has. But those exit interviews are important!!
The Celtics have hoarded these draft picks in case some moron GM trades a player like KP. Ainge has found that moron...
I hang up the phone. I'm not really interested in any of their players.
This. Odds of either of those picks becoming as good as KP are slim, so it better be #3 and BKN 2018 + more picks (none of the players they'd include are game changers).
Otherwise, at least my local team (TWolves) have a bright future.
You'd have to start with that, plus several more players, both backcourt and forward positions. At least the two picks and two very significant young pieces.
Josh Jackson is nothing to sneeze at. It looks like we are witnessing a war between Porz's brother (woj) and Phil (aldridge) in the media. Nothing is done yet and would think we would get more than Chriss, Bledsoe, and #4. That deal is light.
I like Jackson quite a bit but given his current offensive game his ultimate upside is in question. His range of outcomes is huge and none of them realistically matches KP.
that would put us in a good position IF we hit on those picks. 3 and 8 this year plus a top 3 pick next year and 2 quality players on great contracts.
Still would need the superstar player to truly compete for a title.
The Knicks have all of the leverage here, yet the way the media is talking it almost sounds like the Knicks are desperate to trade him.
There shouldn't be any negotiation. The Knicks dont have to trade him. Tell teams your price, and dont move off of it. No negotiating, we either get this package or we're keeping him.
3 and those 2 players is a laughable package.
RE: RE: I hate taking that gamble and trading KP, BUT
that would put us in a good position IF we hit on those picks. 3 and 8 this year plus a top 3 pick next year and 2 quality players on great contracts.
That's not the deal. That's what Phil asked for. Celtics are not willing to include both 3 AND the Nets pick
#3 OR Nets pick, Crowder and Brown... PASS
There is no deal. I am aware that was the ask. That would be the minimum id be willing to trade for. If we did that, it woudl still be a risk because as Mook says, we still need that centerpiece player so the risk is that none of the picks pan out to be as good as KP.
about Jaylen Brown stands out as special. His ultimate upside is closer to solid NBA starter than star. If it's not both #3 and the Nets pick it's an awful, awful deal. Jae Crowder is a nice cheapish role player. Your eggs are all in the Josh Jackson becoming a superstar basket.
about Jaylen Brown stands out as special. His ultimate upside is closer to solid NBA starter than star. If it's not both #3 and the Nets pick it's an awful, awful deal. Jae Crowder is a nice cheapish role player. Your eggs are all in the Josh Jackson becoming a superstar basket.
They can keep Crowder.
#3, BKN pick and Brown is my START. Through in Euros/other firsts on top of that.
Josh Jackson is nothing to sneeze at. It looks like we are witnessing a war between Porz's brother (woj) and Phil (aldridge) in the media. Nothing is done yet and would think we would get more than Chriss, Bledsoe, and #4. That deal is light.
I like Jackson quite a bit but given his current offensive game his ultimate upside is in question. His range of outcomes is huge and none of them realistically matches KP.
Right. KP is a bird in hand. We know he's an elite rim protector and a 20+ ppg scorer once he gets more shots (ie no Melo/Rose). Could be a 25 ppg guy.
Picks are picks. Wide range of outcomes. Very little chance Jackson is better than KP. I really think #3 and the BK pick plus those two players is not enough.
Can people stop "blaming the media"? When this first broke from Woj, everyone called BS because "Woj hates the Knicks". Then it was the Knicks are just listening not shopping him.
Jackson confirmed it himself last night. He might as well have put a for sale sign up. This isn't speculation- this is real. I truly hope it doesn't happen but stop pretending like this is media speculation.
fully admit I don't think I saw Jaylen Brown at all in college so maybe I'm missing something but he looked like a "guy". I'm not saying he's lacking in talent but I think the fact he was picked 3rd overall really has people overrating him. I saw nothing special. If there were a redraft he'd be lucky to go top 10.
seem to be on the Monk train. I like him a good deal but I dont think he can play point besides maybe in the triangle offense. And I dont expect Phil to last more than a couple more years which means the triangle would be gone after a couple years.
Josh Jackson is nothing to sneeze at. It looks like we are witnessing a war between Porz's brother (woj) and Phil (aldridge) in the media. Nothing is done yet and would think we would get more than Chriss, Bledsoe, and #4. That deal is light.
I like Jackson quite a bit but given his current offensive game his ultimate upside is in question. His range of outcomes is huge and none of them realistically matches KP.
Right. KP is a bird in hand. We know he's an elite rim protector and a 20+ ppg scorer once he gets more shots (ie no Melo/Rose). Could be a 25 ppg guy.
Picks are picks. Wide range of outcomes. Very little chance Jackson is better than KP. I really think #3 and the BK pick plus those two players is not enough.
I think Ainge could pull the trigger on a big deal. He's been piling up picks. KP is a "guaranteed" young stud as opposed to all these picks he's been loading on. He fits both their win now and rebuild mantra. If he wants to get the deal done by tonight, let him throw all his cards on the table to do so.
Can people stop "blaming the media"? When this first broke from Woj, everyone called BS because "Woj hates the Knicks". Then it was the Knicks are just listening not shopping him.
Jackson confirmed it himself last night. He might as well have put a for sale sign up. This isn't speculation- this is real. I truly hope it doesn't happen but stop pretending like this is media speculation.
Perhaps it's 2 and they can match any contract in 2019. There really is no reason for the Knicks to accept less than a massive haul for this guy. The Celtics can keep Crowder, but I need the 2 main draft picks, Brown, and one of these other first rounders they have (LAL/SAC/MEM/LAC).
And if they're not willing to give that up, I guess they don't want him that badly.
Where are you getting 3 lottery picks from? And who is suggesting the pick is an additional top 5-6 pick (high enough to pick Fox?). Why would you include Monk (the Knicks already have that pick).
And Markannen is not KP 2.0. Awful defender who doesn't protect the rim and a terrible rebounder. None of these trades make any sense which is why I fully expect Phil to make them.
their fondness for Bill Russell notwithstanding. Getting Porzingis would set that whole town ablaze. Every game would be a sellout and must see TV. This is why Ainge is so lustful for KP.
Where are you getting 3 lottery picks from? And who is suggesting the pick is an additional top 5-6 pick (high enough to pick Fox?). Why would you include Monk (the Knicks already have that pick).
I think he's going off the tweet that Boston is trying to add another lottery pick to give to the knicks.
Where are you getting 3 lottery picks from? And who is suggesting the pick is an additional top 5-6 pick (high enough to pick Fox?). Why would you include Monk (the Knicks already have that pick).
yeah your right...
i am hiping it is top 5, if it is after the knicks pick no thanks...
3 and BK pick next year plus two players and they take Noah back
Or we keep Noah and they throw in another pick
I don't want Noah to be a part of this in any way. I want to extract a full price for KP if I'm moving him.
nah, fuck that. Make them take Noah and then send Horford back in addition to all the picks! Also insist on Crowder and anything else of value that isn't nailed down. No need for Bradley or Smart. I want to part of paying them next summer. There's a reason guys with KP's ceiling are never traded. The haul in return for him should reflect that.
why would we assume "another lottery pick" is a top 5 pick (when a guy like Fox is going). Another lottery pick could be #13-#14 pick (far more logical a team can land one of those than a top 5 pick). Who do the Celtics have on their roster (sans #3 which would be with the Knicks, and Crowder likely Crowder or Brown) that is bringing back this hypothetical top 5-6 pick? Nobody is trading a top 5 pick for Brown or Crowder lets get real. And why would Monk be included in the "trade" return? We already have that pick. There is no rumored Celtics give up 3 AND 2 other lottery picks I've seen. The Begley "rumor" has the package being #3, a "additional lottery pick" and a player
Another new tidbit:
Michael Scotto
@MikeAScotto
Boston Celtics have spoken to the Minnesota Timberwolves about acquiring the 7th pick in the draft, league sources told Basketball Insiders.
on that. Jackson + one of (just going by DX's mock to be fair) Markkanen, Monk, DSJ + 1 of Crowder or Brown. No thanks. If it's such a good deal why is Boston offering it?
No deal with Boston worth discussing without #3 and the Nets 2018 #1.
RE: I'm just saying it's an interesting development...
Another new tidbit:
Michael Scotto
@MikeAScotto
Boston Celtics have spoken to the Minnesota Timberwolves about acquiring the 7th pick in the draft, league sources told Basketball Insiders.
So tonights 3rd, 7th + Player?
NOPE. I want the Brooklyn pick. If that's off the table, then the entire fucking thing is off the table.
Jake FischerVerified account @JakeLFischer 20s21 seconds ago
More
Amidst Porzingis discussions, Knicks met with Zach Collins last night, sources told @JeremyWoo and I. Collins had dinner with Phil Jackson.
RE: I'm just saying it's an interesting development...
Another new tidbit:
Michael Scotto
@MikeAScotto
Boston Celtics have spoken to the Minnesota Timberwolves about acquiring the 7th pick in the draft, league sources told Basketball Insiders.
So tonights 3rd, 7th + Player?
So let's say Jackson, Isaac, Jaylen Brown? I think I might do that if I'm Phil.
RE: I'm just saying it's an interesting development...
Another new tidbit:
Michael Scotto
@MikeAScotto
Boston Celtics have spoken to the Minnesota Timberwolves about acquiring the 7th pick in the draft, league sources told Basketball Insiders.
So tonights 3rd, 7th + Player?
No fucking way. Has to start with the 3rd pick, Nets 1st next year and then some
me. All of those guys have real questions about their offensive upsides. I love Jackson and Brown but I'd bet AGAINST either one of them being #1 scorers/stars on their team. A bunch of good does not supersede potentially 1 great. If Jackson/Isaac don't develop offensively they are good starters and that's it.
If the Knicks ended up with Josh Jackson, Malik Monk and Zach Collins from the KP deal and their own #8- plus either a player or a pick in the future, is that enough for a full reboot to begin (i.e. next move is to get Melo out of town)?
If the Knicks ended up with Josh Jackson, Malik Monk and Zach Collins from the KP deal and their own #8- plus either a player or a pick in the future, is that enough for a full reboot to begin (i.e. next move is to get Melo out of town)?
? Where are you getting 4 picks from?
3 is Jackson
8 would be the Knicks own pick
and third pick would be this mystery lottery pick. You have them adding 4 lottery picks, they would have 3 total picks?
If the Knicks ended up with Josh Jackson, Malik Monk and Zach Collins from the KP deal and their own #8- plus either a player or a pick in the future, is that enough for a full reboot to begin (i.e. next move is to get Melo out of town)?
? Where are you getting 4 picks from?
3 is Jackson
8 would be the Knicks own pick
and third pick would be this mystery lottery pick. You have them adding 4 lottery picks, they would have 3 total picks?
Note I said "pick in the future." Meaning not in this draft.
Josh Jackson would be the #3 pick, Monk the Knicks own #8 and Collins the mystery lottery pick. Then, the Knicks either get a player or a future pick from Boston to finish the deal.
If the Knicks ended up with Josh Jackson, Malik Monk and Zach Collins from the KP deal and their own #8- plus either a player or a pick in the future, is that enough for a full reboot to begin (i.e. next move is to get Melo out of town)?
? Where are you getting 4 picks from?
3 is Jackson
8 would be the Knicks own pick
and third pick would be this mystery lottery pick. You have them adding 4 lottery picks, they would have 3 total picks?
Note I said "pick in the future." Meaning not in this draft.
Rich
You have them with Jackson, Monk and Collins and their own #8. That's 4 players in this draft. Where is this coming from? I re-read it multiple times and it reads as if you have them somehow adding Josh Jackson, Malik Monk, Zach Collins and #8 pick (their own). That's 4 players this year?
Josh Jackson would be the #3 pick, Monk the Knicks own #8 and Collins the mystery lottery pick. Then, the Knicks either get a player or a future pick from Boston to finish the deal.
He's a poor mans KP if I had to describe him. Much more raw as a shooter, but a better rebounder and frame to add weight. He's a shorter KP without the mean streak. I guess Myles turner would be his upside if I had to compare.
all the comments saying, "both Nets picks and Jaylen Brown" as a starting point...it's not happening.
You may value Porzingis at a certain level, but I don't think anyone in the league would essentially give 3 top 3 picks up for him (even if you don't think Brown is special, we do like him - plus I'm assuming the Nets will be terrible again).
You don't need to trade him and you shouldn't trade him. I get why you're valuing him at this level. But no one is going to give up what you're looking for.
all the comments saying, "both Nets picks and Jaylen Brown" as a starting point...it's not happening.
You may value Porzingis at a certain level, but I don't think anyone in the league would essentially give 3 top 3 picks up for him (even if you don't think Brown is special, we do like him - plus I'm assuming the Nets will be terrible again).
You don't need to trade him and you shouldn't trade him. I get why you're valuing him at this level. But no one is going to give up what you're looking for.
Ok then why is Boston after him? It's because ainge is aware that he doesn't have a future #1 option or even #2 option on his roster. He didn't think fultz was that so he traded out. KP gives him a chance at that. Premium should be paid to account for that.
Ainge obviously valued the drop off from #1 to #3 as 2 future lottery picks. So why shouldn't KP be valued that at a MINIMUM?
Someone needs to tempt Phil with a fresh stash of Peyote
Jackson @ 3, Monk @ 7, and Collins at eight. Plus another pick next year.. That is an interesting proposition. I'm at least hopeful the haul will be significant if traded.
You replace the shooting your missing and get some rim protection. Wondering if we could flip the three for more picks on a trade down, ie. Sacramento for Fox.
I'm also wondering if the Knicks feel like Porz is destined for a life on the injury list.
all the comments saying, "both Nets picks and Jaylen Brown" as a starting point...it's not happening.
You may value Porzingis at a certain level, but I don't think anyone in the league would essentially give 3 top 3 picks up for him (even if you don't think Brown is special, we do like him - plus I'm assuming the Nets will be terrible again).
You don't need to trade him and you shouldn't trade him. I get why you're valuing him at this level. But no one is going to give up what you're looking for.
Ok then why is Boston after him? It's because ainge is aware that he doesn't have a future #1 option or even #2 option on his roster. He didn't think fultz was that so he traded out. KP gives him a chance at that. Premium should be paid to account for that.
Ainge obviously valued the drop off from #1 to #3 as 2 future lottery picks. So why shouldn't KP be valued that at a MINIMUM?
I'm not arguing that the Celtics or any other team shouldn't value him highly. But that kind of price, I think, is reserved for someone who is already an elite performer. He's not quite there yet, though he's well on his way. You're still paying for potential here, to an extent.
#1 for #3, and a future first rounder (likely top 8)
vs.
Porzingis (the equivalent to number 1) for #3, a future first rounder (likely top 5), Jaylen Brown, and Jae Crowder. That's a big difference.
Again, not saying you shouldn't be looking for that. But just saying it's a big ask for any team. Jae Crowder has a phenomenal contract, that is a good asset to have.
A. Sherrod Blakely ✔@SherrodbCSN
Sources: @celtics trying to get No.7 pick from T-Wolves for @nyknicks who have an eye on Lauri Markkanen. #Celticstalk
Jackson @ 3, Monk @ 7, and Collins at eight. Plus another pick next year.. That is an interesting proposition. I'm at least hopeful the haul will be significant if traded.
You replace the shooting your missing and get some rim protection. Wondering if we could flip the three for more picks on a trade down, ie. Sacramento for Fox.
I'm also wondering if the Knicks feel like Porz is destined for a life on the injury list.
Porzingis has missed 26 games over 2 seasons, Anthony Davis played 260 games over his first 4 seasons. Didn't see NO in a rush to move AD...
I'm also wondering if the Knicks feel like Porz is destined for a life on the injury list.
That's not it. As recently as the lottery, Phil was talking about KP and Willy like they were givens. I think KP and his handlers have gotten a bit out of pocket and instead of being the adult, Phil is acting like a bitch.
"At the end of the day", KP is still under the Knicks' control for a long time and the Knicks should be in no hurry to trade him for anything less than an enormous amount.
Jackson, Markkanen, and Ntilikina is the haul in this draft it will be a disappointment. Jackson is a lockdown defender, need Monk in the mix for offense not Frank. Plus I'm just personally not high Lauri.
Jackson, Markkanen, and Ntilikina is the haul in this draft it will be a disappointment. Jackson is a lockdown defender, need Monk in the mix for offense not Frank. Plus I'm just personally not high Lauri.
If that happened the biggest plus of the trade would be gunning for the #1 overall next year and not directly any of the players involved in the trade.
Boston can keep Crowder and his awesome contract. But #3, next years Brooklyn pick and Brown is NOT too much to ask for a 21 year old with top 10 NBA upside. All the Celtics fans sneering at this trade will be sucking KPs pee pee the first time he goes for 35 and 15. And I'm guessing the remorse will fade while Boston is playing Cleveland in the ECFs and Josh Jackson is languishing on a 10 win Knicks team putting up something like 8 and 4. Jeezus, what is wrong with you guys? Boston fans have no freaking idea how good KP can be, that much is obvious. KP will own that town if he were to go there. And I sure as hell hope he doesn't.
I saw some tape of him getting ragdolled by guards going for rebounds. Really turned me off to him. I fear a better Steve Novak and a next potential Dirk.
Is crazy not to pony up and get prozingas. They have how many picks. They could easily package some of there lower picks c a players to move back up in the lottery. They would also have a couple lottery picks over the next couple years. If the don't use some picks to get a potential stud what are they going to do with all those picks. Phil better. It budge in the asking price
I saw some tape of him getting ragdolled by guards going for rebounds. Really turned me off to him. I fear a better Steve Novak and a next potential Dirk.
there probably isnt a player on their roster good enough to be the 2nd best player on a title team, especially as Thomas and Harford age up. So giving everything for KP is a real problem. Even two of the 3 EXPECTED premium picks (#3, BK, LA 2-5) leaves them just one chance at finding a top 2 player.
This day has been dreadful. I wish the Knicks would just announce that they're not trading him at/before the draft.
I saw some tape of him getting ragdolled by guards going for rebounds. Really turned me off to him. I fear a better Steve Novak and a next potential Dirk.
want nothing to do with markannen
I meant "I fear a better Steve Novak THAN a next potential Dirk.
Boston can keep Crowder and his awesome contract. But #3, next years Brooklyn pick and Brown is NOT too much to ask for a 21 year old with top 10 NBA upside. All the Celtics fans sneering at this trade will be sucking KPs pee pee the first time he goes for 35 and 15. And I'm guessing the remorse will fade while Boston is playing Cleveland in the ECFs and Josh Jackson is languishing on a 10 win Knicks team putting up something like 8 and 4. Jeezus, what is wrong with you guys? Boston fans have no freaking idea how good KP can be, that much is obvious. KP will own that town if he were to go there. And I sure as hell hope he doesn't.
Crowder would be what, the 2nd or 3rd best player on your team if it traded Porzingis? So don't look down on him too much.
We know how good Porzingis can be. But let's cool it on the 35 and 15 stuff. He averaged 18 and 7. He's still young. We're all just projecting him to be a star. He's not one yet.
You don't want to trade him, we don't want to give up the assets you're looking for to trade for him. So no deal. That's fine. We don't need to make a panic trade. It's essentially 3 top 5 picks, plus another player, that you're asking for. That's quite a bit for anyone. I'd love to see if another player has ever been traded for similar value.
Source familiar with the talks between Knicks and Celtics told ESPN that New York's demands for Kristaps Porzingis are "ridiculous." Also the source gives the sense that Boston will likely keep its No. 3 pick to draft a player and not trade down again.
Source familiar with the talks between Knicks and Celtics told ESPN that New York's demands for Kristaps Porzingis are "ridiculous." Also the source gives the sense that Boston will likely keep its No. 3 pick to draft a player and not trade down again.
Dave McMenamin, ESPN Staff Writer
Sounds like something Ainge would say since he's usually on the other end of the "ridiculous" demands
This guy plays nothing like Porzingis. He's like a 7 foot shooting guard. I've watched a ton of him. Knicks fans will be very dissapointed in him.
I'm still shocked at some of this proposals. I really don't understand. And why wouldn't Boston give up 3 or 4 picks for him? Who are they saving these assets for? Good luck waiting for Jaylen Brown to become a go to scorer or all star.
Boston can keep Crowder and his awesome contract. But #3, next years Brooklyn pick and Brown is NOT too much to ask for a 21 year old with top 10 NBA upside. All the Celtics fans sneering at this trade will be sucking KPs pee pee the first time he goes for 35 and 15. And I'm guessing the remorse will fade while Boston is playing Cleveland in the ECFs and Josh Jackson is languishing on a 10 win Knicks team putting up something like 8 and 4. Jeezus, what is wrong with you guys? Boston fans have no freaking idea how good KP can be, that much is obvious. KP will own that town if he were to go there. And I sure as hell hope he doesn't.
Crowder would be what, the 2nd or 3rd best player on your team if it traded Porzingis? So don't look down on him too much.
We know how good Porzingis can be. But let's cool it on the 35 and 15 stuff. He averaged 18 and 7. He's still young. We're all just projecting him to be a star. He's not one yet.
You don't want to trade him, we don't want to give up the assets you're looking for to trade for him. So no deal. That's fine. We don't need to make a panic trade. It's essentially 3 top 5 picks, plus another player, that you're asking for. That's quite a bit for anyone. I'd love to see if another player has ever been traded for similar value.
It doesn't matter how good Jae Crowder is relative to the rest of the Knicks roster. KP gives you a CHANCE at having a star player. Star players are all that matter in the context of competing in the NBA. Crowder doesn't give you a remote chance of that. Smart doesnt. Brown doesnt. I love Jackson but I dont see how he does either. Nor Markannen. Nor Isaac.
We dump KP we end up with the Celtics roster minus all the future picks. AKA a team that gets wiped by a team full of stars in the playoffs. It may not be Lebron but it could be Giannis or Simmons or Embiid.
RE: deej i never thought they would actually trade kp
but if boston is really trying to get 7 it tells me they are not far from a deal, they wouldnt be trying to get 7 without the knicks asking for it...
I could believe that Ainge is just thinking get #7 because it's a 7 or 8 player draft, and I've got more picks than I want and a ton of players Im not excited about extending. They dont have another #1 this year after 3rd overall. And Minny wants to get better, not get more assets for the future. So this suggests to me maybe just that Ainge is cashing out on Bradley or Smart a year away from FA or getting value for Crowder who I think is out of favor a bit and whose role they want to give to Brown (if he stays).
Reports are #7 for NYK, but I think #7 just fits Aigne's MO.
Boston can keep Crowder and his awesome contract. But #3, next years Brooklyn pick and Brown is NOT too much to ask for a 21 year old with top 10 NBA upside. All the Celtics fans sneering at this trade will be sucking KPs pee pee the first time he goes for 35 and 15. And I'm guessing the remorse will fade while Boston is playing Cleveland in the ECFs and Josh Jackson is languishing on a 10 win Knicks team putting up something like 8 and 4. Jeezus, what is wrong with you guys? Boston fans have no freaking idea how good KP can be, that much is obvious. KP will own that town if he were to go there. And I sure as hell hope he doesn't.
Crowder would be what, the 2nd or 3rd best player on your team if it traded Porzingis? So don't look down on him too much.
We know how good Porzingis can be. But let's cool it on the 35 and 15 stuff. He averaged 18 and 7. He's still young. We're all just projecting him to be a star. He's not one yet.
You don't want to trade him, we don't want to give up the assets you're looking for to trade for him. So no deal. That's fine. We don't need to make a panic trade. It's essentially 3 top 5 picks, plus another player, that you're asking for. That's quite a bit for anyone. I'd love to see if another player has ever been traded for similar value.
2nd or 3rd best player because the Knicks have very little talent. Crowder is what he is. There is zero additional upside, room for growth. He's a solid player on a team that needs big time talent. Crowder doesn't move the needle. He's a guy who looks good as a role player on a good team. When he's a "main" piece he looks sub-par.
That just got swept out of the playoffs, this is the year to make a "ridiculous" trade. The rookies the Celtics draft in the next two years aren't going to get them over the hump. Adding KP would give them a legit chance and Ainge should be able to find a seller at the deadline and acquire another player for a post season run
Source familiar with the talks between Knicks and Celtics told ESPN that New York's demands for Kristaps Porzingis are "ridiculous." Also the source gives the sense that Boston will likely keep its No. 3 pick to draft a player and not trade down again.
Dave McMenamin, ESPN Staff Writer
Why are people getting worked up over the back and forth.
Its called posturing for the best deal. Both sides are gambling that the other side is more desperate than they are and give in.
Ainge is used to other teams giving in to his one-sided demands- there has been criticism in the past that what teams not involved in the trade discussions have termed as fair offers get turned down because Ainge wanted more.
Jackson has no experience in this area, and might be overasking- we only know what is reported. However, he probably knows that KP is his one asset that could bring a king's ransom. Thus, it is not necessary to make any deal- he knows that he only needs to act if the deal is one that is amazing.
I am sure we will hear that the talks have broken down, that other teams are discussing options, then the talks will resume- and then Boston will make their pick. If they pick Jackson, the rumors will start again.
We'll see if who is desperate enough to make a move.
totally different information. I've seen this guy on ESPN, good track record?
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Also, I'm told that the Celtics and Knicks haven't had any sort of progressing talks. They last spoke this morning and haven't revisited.
totally different information. I've seen this guy on ESPN, good track record?
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Also, I'm told that the Celtics and Knicks haven't had any sort of progressing talks. They last spoke this morning and haven't revisited.
everyone is saying knicks and celtics are talking and working towards a deal...never heaed of thiz guy...
This is going to be so much fun three years from now
Boston can keep Crowder and his awesome contract. But #3, next years Brooklyn pick and Brown is NOT too much to ask for a 21 year old with top 10 NBA upside. All the Celtics fans sneering at this trade will be sucking KPs pee pee the first time he goes for 35 and 15. And I'm guessing the remorse will fade while Boston is playing Cleveland in the ECFs and Josh Jackson is languishing on a 10 win Knicks team putting up something like 8 and 4. Jeezus, what is wrong with you guys? Boston fans have no freaking idea how good KP can be, that much is obvious. KP will own that town if he were to go there. And I sure as hell hope he doesn't.
Crowder would be what, the 2nd or 3rd best player on your team if it traded Porzingis? So don't look down on him too much.
We know how good Porzingis can be. But let's cool it on the 35 and 15 stuff. He averaged 18 and 7. He's still young. We're all just projecting him to be a star. He's not one yet.
You don't want to trade him, we don't want to give up the assets you're looking for to trade for him. So no deal. That's fine. We don't need to make a panic trade. It's essentially 3 top 5 picks, plus another player, that you're asking for. That's quite a bit for anyone. I'd love to see if another player has ever been traded for similar value.
I'd love to see if another player with KP's upside and skill set was traded on his rookie contract. It simply does not happen. that's why you're seeing people throw around unprecedented trade packages.
I actually do think that Brown is going to be a star.
He did really well at times and they were pretty much weaning him in, he had no plays called for him, and he showed great poise and athleticism. He has an improving shot, including from the 3-point line, and can get to the basket extremely well. He plays several positions and is already a plus defender. And, he's improving in every area. He's a perfect match for Stevens and would be my deal-breaker for anyone who's not Anthony Davis.
RE: This is going to be so much fun three years from now
totally different information. I've seen this guy on ESPN, good track record?
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Also, I'm told that the Celtics and Knicks haven't had any sort of progressing talks. They last spoke this morning and haven't revisited.
everyone is saying knicks and celtics are talking and working towards a deal...never heaed of thiz guy...
He's legit. 130,000 followers and Begley retweeted him
RE: I actually do think that Brown is going to be a star.
He did really well at times and they were pretty much weaning him in, he had no plays called for him, and he showed great poise and athleticism. He has an improving shot, including from the 3-point line, and can get to the basket extremely well. He plays several positions and is already a plus defender. And, he's improving in every area. He's a perfect match for Stevens and would be my deal-breaker for anyone who's not Anthony Davis.
2nd or 3rd best player because the Knicks have very little talent. Crowder is what he is. There is zero additional upside, room for growth. He's a solid player on a team that needs big time talent. Crowder doesn't move the needle. He's a guy who looks good as a role player on a good team. When he's a "main" piece he looks sub-par.
I fully get that Crowder is nothing special and is what he is. I'm just saying he's good player, even if that doesn't do much good on a bad team. And Crowder is literally the 4th asset you'd be getting in the deal Jackson apparently wants, not he main asset, not to mention he really does have a highly desirable contract around the league. If he's the 4th asset, you've done well in the trade.
With Porzingis, while he does have the potential to be an 1 or 2 option on a championship team, the Knicks are so far from getting to that point, and it will probably not happen at any point with the current regime. So while I wouldn't trade Porzingis, you do have to evaluate whether the relationship is irreparably damaged. And while you may want Phil out, Dolan is a moron. So don't bet on it.
He did really well at times and they were pretty much weaning him in, he had no plays called for him, and he showed great poise and athleticism. He has an improving shot, including from the 3-point line, and can get to the basket extremely well. He plays several positions and is already a plus defender. And, he's improving in every area. He's a perfect match for Stevens and would be my deal-breaker for anyone who's not Anthony Davis.
You'd take Giannis but only if MILW added?
I meant as an add-in to a deal. He has his own cachet and will eventually be the centerpiece, not ancillary.
ESPN so who knows but I highly doubt an ESPN reporter with 130,000 twitter followers (retweeted by other writers) is making totally made up statements.
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RE: I actually do think that Brown is going to be a star.
He did really well at times and they were pretty much weaning him in, he had no plays called for him, and he showed great poise and athleticism. He has an improving shot, including from the 3-point line, and can get to the basket extremely well. He plays several positions and is already a plus defender. And, he's improving in every area. He's a perfect match for Stevens and would be my deal-breaker for anyone who's not Anthony Davis.
Talk about overvaluing. I like Brown but to me he's a bigger Jae Crowder. DOn't see any star in him.
RE: RE: I actually do think that Brown is going to be a star.
He did really well at times and they were pretty much weaning him in, he had no plays called for him, and he showed great poise and athleticism. He has an improving shot, including from the 3-point line, and can get to the basket extremely well. He plays several positions and is already a plus defender. And, he's improving in every area. He's a perfect match for Stevens and would be my deal-breaker for anyone who's not Anthony Davis.
Talk about overvaluing. I like Brown but to me he's a bigger Jae Crowder. DOn't see any star in him.
I definitely do. I think nearly I saw every game he played in last year...well, maybe not some of the west coast night games...and for his age and the trajectory from first game to last, yup, I definitely do.
Said this is probably just Danny Ainge having some fun. Also said it would take a Herschel Walker package to get him and that it has nothing to do with the exit interview. Noted that KP's camp - not the Knicks - leaked the missed exit interview.
With Porzingis, while he does have the potential to be an 1 or 2 option on a championship team, the Knicks are so far from getting to that point, and it will probably not happen at any point with the current regime. So while I wouldn't trade Porzingis, you do have to evaluate whether the relationship is irreparably damaged. And while you may want Phil out, Dolan is a moron. So don't bet on it.
Phil talks about trading KP if it is what's best for the team, but his ego driving trades is not best for the team, and his personal timeline to win a championship is not what's best for the team. Fact is that a guy like KP probably doesnt get into his "title window" best case for another 4 years. If that's not Phil's time frame, he needs to retire, because there is almost no path to getting a title in NY in the next 4 years. LeBron (wherever he is) and GSW will be murderous for at least 2 more seasons, conservatively. They may not win 2-3 more titles, but they're so good that the KNICKS have no chance of catching them in 2-3 years.
This is what I dont get about the modern NBA. A guy like Ainge gets it -- he sees that his team isnt really title competitive. Yet most teams are just plugging along looking to get marginally better. Lets get Dwight Howard! Lets trade for Aldridge! I guess if you need to sell tickets, so be it, it's a business. But otherwise any teams that is forced to go for it (e.g. LAC) should be thinking long term. If you have a Porzingis and you cant wait for him to develop, you're in the wrong business and are misreading the league.
RE: RE: RE: I actually do think that Brown is going to be a star.
He did really well at times and they were pretty much weaning him in, he had no plays called for him, and he showed great poise and athleticism. He has an improving shot, including from the 3-point line, and can get to the basket extremely well. He plays several positions and is already a plus defender. And, he's improving in every area. He's a perfect match for Stevens and would be my deal-breaker for anyone who's not Anthony Davis.
Talk about overvaluing. I like Brown but to me he's a bigger Jae Crowder. DOn't see any star in him.
I definitely do. I think nearly I saw every game he played in last year...well, maybe not some of the west coast night games...and for his age and the trajectory from first game to last, yup, I definitely do.
Must come as a surprise to you as to why Ainge wants Tatum or KP so bad then.
get the fuck out of here. Take your spoiled and irrational view of the NBA landscape and fucking blow. Great franchise. Good for you. Now fuck off. You're not living in the real world. You're living in a universe where your team wins trade after trade after trade. Take your Bradleys and nice little shooting guards and 2 pick offer and sell bullshit elsewhere.
I wouldn't even deal KP to boston if they offered too much. But Phil is going full heel...so...yeah.
looks like Phil was saying he'd take a come to jesus offer and meant it. Im actually not 100% convinced he would take the package from Boston that was quoted. The difference between the two packages cant really be described as "ridiculous". Maybe if Phil said "add the BK and LA picks" you could call it ridic, but not for just the BK pick added.
My guy said Frenchy or Monk are the "overwhelming" favorites to be the pick (this was last night). He said most of the writers are hearing Frenchy but some think Monk is the guy Phil covets.
of how quiet the Knicks/Monk connection has been. He thinks it's a little "too quiet" and suspects he's the guy. I hope the Mavs trade up and remove all doubt.
This is what I dont get about the modern NBA. A guy like Ainge gets it -- he sees that his team isnt really title competitive. Yet most teams are just plugging along looking to get marginally better. Lets get Dwight Howard! Lets trade for Aldridge! I guess if you need to sell tickets, so be it, it's a business. But otherwise any teams that is forced to go for it (e.g. LAC) should be thinking long term. If you have a Porzingis and you cant wait for him to develop, you're in the wrong business and are misreading the league.
Ainge is currently benefitting from an overzealous Brooklyn owner who gave up their future to win a title and stick it to the Knicks. How did that pan out for Brooklyn? All 5 starters and the coach have departed.
Difference is, Boston has more assists and can afford to make a big trade to try and get over the hump. Huge difference in trading for a 21 year old kid vs 2 aging veterans
of how quiet the Knicks/Monk connection has been. He thinks it's a little "too quiet" and suspects he's the guy. I hope the Mavs trade up and remove all doubt.
The guy I spoke to thought Monk checked off a bunch of Phil's boxes and still would allow him to be a bit "outside the box". He sort of hinted he thought Monk would be the guy but then said "everyone seems it's the French kid". Monk would not surprise me at all.
of how quiet the Knicks/Monk connection has been. He thinks it's a little "too quiet" and suspects he's the guy. I hope the Mavs trade up and remove all doubt.
The guy I spoke to thought Monk checked off a bunch of Phil's boxes and still would allow him to be a bit "outside the box". He sort of hinted he thought Monk would be the guy but then said "everyone seems it's the French kid". Monk would not surprise me at all.
i cant remember was there a lot of noise around knicks and kp?
Monk makes sense with my star power theory of Phil
he's been around stars too much, and won with them, to start looking for doubles with lottery picks.
What does Frenchie get Phil, assuming he REALLY pans out (say, a combo guard version of Batum?). Is that guy good enough to be the #2 on a title team? He isnt Pippen or even Rodman.
Now what about Monk? Well if he can play 1 he can defend his position, and he's got 20+ point potential. Like KP he has unlimited range, meaning you're now adding feet to the basketball court -- your 1 and 4 can stand shoot from the BQE and suddenly your 2, 3, 5 have a ton of court to mess with. Lee can knock them down and there is hope that a healthy Lance can defend and corner 3 it. It's a plan even in the near term.
is the sensible play. Not sure why the Knicks have to complicate this. Add winning players like Thornwell or Mason (for example) in round two and call it a day.
RE: monk wearing orange band watch loke he promised
is the sensible play. Not sure why the Knicks have to complicate this. Add winning players like Thornwell or Mason (for example) in round two and call it a day.
What's complicating this is that KP actions are drawing attention to Phil's failures, and KP isnt buying into the zen mind games. Worked on Kobe and MJ (I guess, who knows). But those were talented teams and Phil was coaching, in his physical prime. Now he's a sleepy old man and team executive, who is obviously meddling with coaching. Phil feels entitled to respect based on his coaching record and his title, but it's a what have you dont for me lately world. Nothing he's done says to KP "trust me, I got this".
RE: RE: monk wearing orange band watch loke he promised
but I can't believe there are people on this thread that wouldn't do 3, the Nets pick next year and Brown for him. Get rid of Melo. Tank one more year. Get two top 5 picks next year to add to Fox or Jackson + Smith / Tatum / Monk + Brown + Willy. That's actually a team. What we have now plus the 8th pick isn't a team.
RE: RE: RE: monk wearing orange band watch loke he promised
4 is high for monk and over jackson or tatum? both would be great fits with the suns
I was only joking. Honestly though at this point I am expecting the worst which would be that Monk is the guy, has been told he's the guy, and then Minnesota trades out and someone else grabs him at 7.
but I can't believe there are people on this thread that wouldn't do 3, the Nets pick next year and Brown for him. Get rid of Melo. Tank one more year. Get two top 5 picks next year to add to Fox or Jackson + Smith / Tatum / Monk + Brown + Willy. That's actually a team. What we have now plus the 8th pick isn't a team.
Well, the fair comp is:
Jackson, Monk/Smith, Brown, Willy, BK #1, next year's #1 vs
KP, Monk/Smith, Willy, next year's #1.
Figure the top option gives us a better chance for a top 3 pick... maybe. KP is better than Jackson and Brown, but the two of them combined could give you a working lineup next season.
Ultimately I think it comes down to how you perceive that gap between KP and Jackson (I think it's huge) and whether you're just assuming that BK pick is going to be a great pick. Who knows. Could end up #5. Could end up #2 in a 1 player draft. Remember when Wiggins was the next LeBron 12 months out of his draft? I do.
but I can't believe there are people on this thread that wouldn't do 3, the Nets pick next year and Brown for him. Get rid of Melo. Tank one more year. Get two top 5 picks next year to add to Fox or Jackson + Smith / Tatum / Monk + Brown + Willy. That's actually a team. What we have now plus the 8th pick isn't a team.
Well, the fair comp is:
Jackson, Monk/Smith, Brown, Willy, BK #1, next year's #1 vs
KP, Monk/Smith, Willy, next year's #1.
Figure the top option gives us a better chance for a top 3 pick... maybe. KP is better than Jackson and Brown, but the two of them combined could give you a working lineup next season.
Ultimately I think it comes down to how you perceive that gap between KP and Jackson (I think it's huge) and whether you're just assuming that BK pick is going to be a great pick. Who knows. Could end up #5. Could end up #2 in a 1 player draft. Remember when Wiggins was the next LeBron 12 months out of his draft? I do.
Yeah i'm more thinking I don't see the Knicks sucking enough with Porzingis to have a top 5 pick. Without him I think yes. So we get more bullets and a larger chance to suck. Also if we keep Porzingis I think there is a much higher chance we keep Melo which again increases our chances of not completely sucking which I don't want.
Can you really see the Nets not finishing in the bottom 3 in record as well? Without Lopez they are just a steaming pile of shit.
Is that they can be anything, including a bust. Just because you collect high draft picks doesn't mean they're going to be great or even good players. Porzingis would go #1 overall this year. He's the same age as the #1 consensus pick, and we already know he can play. Just in the past two drafts we've seen the "can't miss" lottery picks be misses.
Is that they can be anything, including a bust. Just because you collect high draft picks doesn't mean they're going to be great or even good players. Porzingis would go #1 overall this year. He's the same age as the #1 consensus pick, and we already know he can play. Just in the past two drafts we've seen the "can't miss" lottery picks be misses.
That isn't the point. The point is we are going to need a lot more than Porzingis to win. And he's not some money guy. He's all about winning. He is out of here if we don't put real players around him. So you are basically saying we have to strike gold at #8 or risk trading his mentor, being bad next year and alienating him further. We might not want to roll the dice on being bad and we do the same thing that we did this year. I think he will be a top 10-15 player in this league. I'm just worried about losing him. It's already going south. If the relationship deteriorates so will our leverage.
my preference is to lock in that "sure thing" and go on from there. Maybe we hit a home run with our pick in 2017 or 2018, or elsewhere (GSW got lucky). Maybe it's a FA.
I just think going with 2 new lottery tickets sets you back to square one. Cavs wouldnt be anywhere now with Kyrie-Wiggins-Bennett. Sixers got Okafor, Embiid who may never last a season, and Noel with their first 3 #1s of the rebuild.
Put KP in the bank, try to add another star. Vs. the full on scratch off model of taking a tranche of picks from BOS.
Is that they can be anything, including a bust. Just because you collect high draft picks doesn't mean they're going to be great or even good players. Porzingis would go #1 overall this year. He's the same age as the #1 consensus pick, and we already know he can play. Just in the past two drafts we've seen the "can't miss" lottery picks be misses.
That isn't the point. The point is we are going to need a lot more than Porzingis to win. And he's not some money guy. He's all about winning. He is out of here if we don't put real players around him. So you are basically saying we have to strike gold at #8 or risk trading his mentor, being bad next year and alienating him further. We might not want to roll the dice on being bad and we do the same thing that we did this year. I think he will be a top 10-15 player in this league. I'm just worried about losing him. It's already going south. If the relationship deteriorates so will our leverage.
If he leaves, it's years from now. You're right that they would need more to win, but you can start that process by deciding to stop the nonsense and begin operating like a franchise that isn't dysfunctional and doesn't scare players away. This would also increase the chance that he doesn't want to run away screaming in terror the second he's off contract.
That's a "throw-in" to a major trade not a target. He went 4th overall in a weak draft and was viewed as a response to KP being so good. We have KP. I'm prepared to be sick tonight... please keep KP unless you are truly blown away. Bender and #4 and I will literally have trouble sleeping.
Last season, Porzingis avg more PPG than Aldridge, more Blks than DeAndre, shot better from 3 than JR Smith, more dunks than Blake. He's 21
Yes, Phil Jackson's ego.
there was a report last night that the suns are making chriss and bender available but knicks want booker
I think the brother's comment this week that KP wants to stay despite how NYK is treating their players. KP didnt go to the meeting of course. And if you want to reach, there were some post game comments where KP expressed his frustration that they dont know what they're doing on offense/schematically.
Add it all up in Phil's eyes and it's KP communicating that the team is a mess. Which it is but Im sure Phil thinks he's zen mastering the shit out of this gig.
Then trade Melo to Clev for two future #1s
That way you stockpile number one picks and your core is:
Jackson
Smith/Monk
Bender
Then you get another top 3 pick next year. Maybe even the #1 pick.
I love KP but he already has foot/leg problems. Might be the safer bet to deal him if you can get a haul in return
2nd pick this year
Deng
Black
Ingram
2nd pick this year
Deng
Black
Ingram
no
Porzingis and #8 for Bledsoe, #4 and a #1 pick next year
Porzingis and #8 for Bledsoe, #4 and a #1 pick next year
Fuck no. Puke.
i think its more about kp ignoring hornacek and phils overtures to speak to him, i think him skipping the exit meeting was one thing and they understood he was frustrated but not responding to them i think that is ehat is fueling everything
Why would anyone expect the Suns with Bledsoe, KP, Booker and one of Chris's or Bender plus Chandler etc be top 5 bad next year? Bizarre
Porzingis and #8 for Bledsoe, #4 and a #1 pick next year
nope the whoke point is to get 2 top 10 picks this year
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if you can get 2 top 5 picks next year you are really setting yourself up there are some franchise talents, at least projected right now, in that draft...
Why would anyone expect the Suns with Bledsoe, KP, Booker and one of Chris's or Bender plus Chandler etc be top 5 bad next year? Bizarre
woj said last night no deal will happen without booker involved..
At this point I don't even know how many that is officially but obviously number 3, Brooklyn's 2018, Philly.
Boston can try to contend with LeBron and Golden State now.
The Knicks would be left with (I think) 5 lottery picks in 2 years.
If I'm an NBA franchise I'm looking to rebuild now while the entire season and postseason is completely meaningless for all but 4 teams.
(I hope)
(I hope)
i think its more phil flexing his muscles towards janis
Bender would be a horrible return. He sucks. #4 and Booker, maybe Criss (who I think will be a good player), but even then, PHO would have to sweeten the pot. At the end of the day, I think this is a lot of smoke.
2. Is there ANY CHANCE that Phil is just "teaching the boy a lesson", i.e., "we'll show Kristaps, I know he loves NY but let's entertain offers so he will fall into line"?
I'm really hoping that is the case because if we trade KP, I may turn in my fan card until this GM/ownership situation changes.
Only the Knicks
janis was standing there and the game was about to start and a security guy comes over and says hey it is time to clear court...
janis says ok, then looks at the guy he is talking to rolls his eyes and goes does that guy know who i am and stood there and didnt move for another 5 mins, now you can say it means nothing but it seems like janis got a big head because of his brothers success
Only the Knicks
I had the exact same thought. It seems they're embracing a rebuild for the first time in 20 years, so of course step one is to deal the young stud who was a gift from the basketball gods.
It has everything to do with it. How else do you explain the fact that Phil specifically spent a portion of that 5 minute interview last night emphasizing that he has never had a player miss an exit interview. Clearly a sign of disrespect to him and now one of the top 20/30 (?) players in the league is part of trade discussions.
janis was standing there and the game was about to start and a security guy comes over and says hey it is time to clear court...
janis says ok, then looks at the guy he is talking to rolls his eyes and goes does that guy know who i am and stood there and didnt move for another 5 mins, now you can say it means nothing but it seems like janis got a big head because of his brothers success
Who the hell cares about Janis? You don't think the reps for other players have "big heads"? Scott Boras? David Falk? Prior to this "skipped exit interview" please provide examples/evidence (of any kind) that KP has a "big head". Kid has seemingly worked his ass off, loves the game. Be upset about the exit interview, that is your right but "big headed brother" is absurd.
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will try to "rebuild" by trading away a 21 year old player?
Only the Knicks
I had the exact same thought. It seems they're embracing a rebuild for the first time in 20 years, so of course step one is to deal the young stud who was a gift from the basketball gods.
On a team with Noah, Melo, Sasha, Lee (all 31 and over).
HOLY - I just looked it up and Kristaps is LITERALLY the youngest player on this team! Hernangomez is two years older at 23! Ron Baker is 24!!! WTF
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i was at a knicks game, kps rookie year, kp was hurt and done for season at this point, i got great tickets right behind knicks bench 1st row...
janis was standing there and the game was about to start and a security guy comes over and says hey it is time to clear court...
janis says ok, then looks at the guy he is talking to rolls his eyes and goes does that guy know who i am and stood there and didnt move for another 5 mins, now you can say it means nothing but it seems like janis got a big head because of his brothers success
Who the hell cares about Janis? You don't think the reps for other players have "big heads"? Scott Boras? David Falk? Prior to this "skipped exit interview" please provide examples/evidence (of any kind) that KP has a "big head". Kid has seemingly worked his ass off, loves the game. Be upset about the exit interview, that is your right but "big headed brother" is absurd.
my whole point was it is not kp, it is janis who is telling kp what to do...
i dont think kp would have done this without janis in his head telling him to do this, that was my point....
i am actually absolving kp sayong he is not the type to blatantly not show up for something
i never said he was pushing for a trade, i think this is a power trip on both sides...
janis told kp hey skip exit meeting and show the knkcks how mad you are...
phil says ok you want to play that game i am going listen to offers..
i also think knicks not letting kp play for latvia was the first gut punch from knicks to kp and kp took it a little personally...
i thinkt hat is why he was so hell bent on playing this year...
Is this sarcasm? Phil made an ass out of himself with his nonsense about the warriors and the 3-point shot.
who said anything about selling low? every single report says knicks asking price is absurdly high, who is selling low?
you would think melo would be banging down the door
2) Bookers a nice player but he's terrible on D. I'm sure he'll better but who knows.
3) KP is an elite rim protector. Combined with his skills, do you know how hard it is to find that? Big part of KPs appeal is the ability to construct a good defense around him.
4) I can't believe some of these trade offers fans are suggesting. Some guy proposed Saric, future 1st and 4 2nd round picks. I can't believe this.
5) He skipped an exit interview and it was a mistake. You don't think other young players have made mistakes? Under Phil alone, Pippen sat out the final play in the ECF, Shaq skipped exit interviews and Drose just flat out skipped a game. Hell Magic Johnson got a coach fired early in his career. KP made one mistake,not a big one. Forgive him and move on.
Lastly- fuck Phil jackson. This is why you don't give him this offseason. Would any other GM in the league be acting like this?
nygiants16 : 9:14 am : link : reply
the player who has been ridiculed the most doesnt even eant to leave...
Or does he? At this point getting the word out to his fans that he wants to stay might be covering his own butt to look like the good guy here. He might be fine with being traded after all this bs.
you would think melo would be banging down the door
because his life is in NY? he has made his money... why would he bang down the door to leave? you are running out of excuses
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lets pretend Janis pushed his brother to do this... and to ignore the texts... and to be upset... THAT'S a reason you sell low on a 21 year old player the ENTIRE league wants? You trade Porzingis in a deal where the return is "holy shit" not "seems reasonably fair if things work out". Outside of those on here who think KP is nothing special, is there anyone on here who doubts KP isn't going to be at WORST a 3rd best player on a contending team? And at best (if everything works out) a franchise player? Stars win rings, not this silly idea that Avery Bradley and Jae Crowder types (while nice players) move the needle.
who said anything about selling low? every single report says knicks asking price is absurdly high, who is selling low?
Someone on this very thread suggested Bender, 4 and the Suns 2020 pick. You just suggested the Suns offer but we get their 2018 pick. That is selling low.
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everyone says no one wants to go to the knicks, they are in shambles ans the player who has been ridiculed the most doesnt even eant to leave...
you would think melo would be banging down the door
because his life is in NY? he has made his money... why would he bang down the door to leave? you are running out of excuses
because he has won nothing and everyone considers him a loser?
you would think he woukd want to leave to try and win a championship at this point
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In comment 13507270 DanMetroMan said:
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lets pretend Janis pushed his brother to do this... and to ignore the texts... and to be upset... THAT'S a reason you sell low on a 21 year old player the ENTIRE league wants? You trade Porzingis in a deal where the return is "holy shit" not "seems reasonably fair if things work out". Outside of those on here who think KP is nothing special, is there anyone on here who doubts KP isn't going to be at WORST a 3rd best player on a contending team? And at best (if everything works out) a franchise player? Stars win rings, not this silly idea that Avery Bradley and Jae Crowder types (while nice players) move the needle.
who said anything about selling low? every single report says knicks asking price is absurdly high, who is selling low?
Someone on this very thread suggested Bender, 4 and the Suns 2020 pick. You just suggested the Suns offer but we get their 2018 pick. That is selling low.
i never said the suns pick, i said any offer has to include a pick in 201i whenre you can get top 5, did i mention the suns?
i also said no deal from the suns is worth considering unless booker is involved, never said i would do chriss or bender and 4 for kp never...
basically pony up or no reason to deal him
no
That's fair to me but I doubt the suns would do that. They're left with just KP and pretty much nothing else.
More
Suns Consider Devin Booker Untouchable In Kristaps Porzingis Trade Talks:
this, suns do not have enough to make me want to do a trade...
top 5 this year is nice but next years picks are the value and like dan said they might be too good to get top 5...
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To is Boston. I want the 3rd pick this year and the Nets pick next year just to start. I'd also ask for Jaylen Brown and possibly another first in 2019 or a few seconds in 2017/2018.
this, suns do not have enough to make me want to do a trade...
top 5 this year is nice but next years picks are the value and like dan said they might be too good to get top 5...
Well, if you're dealing KP for picks/young players (e.g. Booker), then they need to go all in on the tank and move Melo. Increase the odds of their 2018 #1 being top 5 along with the Nets.
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In comment 13507309 Big Rick in FL said:
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To is Boston. I want the 3rd pick this year and the Nets pick next year just to start. I'd also ask for Jaylen Brown and possibly another first in 2019 or a few seconds in 2017/2018.
this, suns do not have enough to make me want to do a trade...
top 5 this year is nice but next years picks are the value and like dan said they might be too good to get top 5...
Well, if you're dealing KP for picks/young players (e.g. Booker), then they need to go all in on the tank and move Melo. Increase the odds of their 2018 #1 being top 5 along with the Nets.
absolutely true, say knicks did brown 3 and bkn first for kp...
trade melo and knicks suck again...
imagine having a core of jackson, brown, say monk at 8, willy then 2 of doncic, ayton or porter?
you are set for the next 10 years
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than just skipping the exit interview. It just doesn't make sense.
i think its more about kp ignoring hornacek and phils overtures to speak to him, i think him skipping the exit meeting was one thing and they understood he was frustrated but not responding to them i think that is ehat is fueling everything
What is the definitive reporting on this?
I think you approach this from too negative a position on KP. Even the "good story" one could tell about Phil Jackson -- the successful coach -- has him being a button pusher. We see that in everything he's done here too. So to frame this as they just want to talk and be all nice I think ignores the fact that Phil's approach is to intentionally be an asshole.
Look, the basis of all this is that KP is fed up with the dysfunction and mean spiritedness. Isnt that a good thing? He's not demanding more shots or sulking over not being the highest paid player. He's furious that the team suck.
Knicks fans call Melo a loser because he purportedly doesnt care about winning. And KP is entitled and bratty because he react badly to all the losing. Knicks fans need to get their shit together.
And you would suggest a deal like Chriss and 4 or Bender and 4 is a "value" deal?
I suspect this is what happens (if KP is dealt) we get guys like Smart/Crowder and 2 picks from the Celtics, KP goes on to be a monster in Boston and we battle for the 7 seed wooo
Suns minus Bender or Chriss but keeping Booker
Bledsoe/Booker/KP/Chriss or Bender... that's intriguing.
Umm what? KP is a much better player than booker. I say this as a booker fan. He's a better offensive prospect than klay Thompson. He's a shit tom worse defensively. KP has much better 2 way potential. Booker and #4...I'll passz
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Ainge is a ruthless trader -- people dont like dealing with him because he feels he has to kill on every trade. And here Phil is thinking with his dick and not his head. I just feel like the end game is that Ainge gives us one really good pick (#3) and then a bunch of players Ainge doesnt want to pay anyway.
I suspect this is what happens (if KP is dealt) we get guys like Smart/Crowder and 2 picks from the Celtics, KP goes on to be a monster in Boston and we battle for the 7 seed wooo
This will happen. Book it. Phil has shown no indication through his time here or before that he can put aside his own ego for the betterment of the franchise. He's a trainwreck of a GM and a KP trade for Smart, Crowder, and the #3 would be his piece de resistance. If that were to happen, I'd be done rooting for this franchise and I'd consider becoming a BK Nets fan. They might suck and have a terrible short-term future but they don't seem to be in anywhere near a toxic situation as the Knicks.
Either that or give up rooting for any team.
The issue is... Greek Freak himself wasn't "that good" until mid-season 2016 (I've loved him since day 1, honestly going over the top to support him despite his numbers) but first 2 seasons- 13.1 PER, .80 WS/48... first 3 seasons 15.3 PER, 0.96 WS/48
KP first 2 seasons 17.6 PER, .101 WS/48
These offers/ideas are valued as if KP is 25-26 and "is what he is" (which is already very, very good despite 3 coaches, tons of teammates etc)
This is what I don't get it. Also, I guess Woj isn't making this up because he hates the Knicks huh? I'm still shocked by that interview last night.
For Big Chief Triangle all about creating a winning culture, he sure has a strange way of doing it. Treating your 2 best players like shit in the public. Next year should be fun.
Aldridge looked old and slow, contract is good but I can't imagine anyone in the top 10 does this unless... #Knicks
I don't know if this is an ego thing with Phil or if he's trying to send a message to the kid, but I don't like it at all. I'm not excusing KP's behavior either.
It seems the new theme is anti-management, which is dumb. It's his employer and he should tell them how he feels in his exit interview if he wants to do things the right way. There is no justifying skipping a meeting with your bosses.
If there is any part of you that hopes we make a devastating trade because you don't like our president who will continue to make $20M, than you are a terrible fan and you should step away from the game for a little while.
Aldridge looked old and slow, contract is good but I can't imagine anyone in the top 10 does this unless... #Knicks
apparently they were talking to kongs aboit 1 of their picks...
Walker
Batum
MKG
Aldridge
Dwight
Bench-
Frank
Lamb
Marvin Williams
The only ones that suffer from this are Knicks fans. It won't bother Phil in the least. He'll ride off into the sunset, smoke peyote day and night and laugh his ass off on the beach while thinking about how to spend the fortune he stole from Dolan. Us Knicks fans left with the aftermath
I don't know if this is an ego thing with Phil or if he's trying to send a message to the kid, but I don't like it at all. I'm not excusing KP's behavior either.
It seems the new theme is anti-management, which is dumb. It's his employer and he should tell them how he feels in his exit interview if he wants to do things the right way. There is no justifying skipping a meeting with your bosses.
skipping the meeting is one thing, you can call it a a lapse in judgement or whatever bit the continuing not answering hornaceks and phils calls is worrisome
Now someone will respond with some sanctimonious bullshit about the sanctity of contracts, but let's be clear: management would tear up KP's contract to shreds and write up an even more limiting one if it could and vice versa for a player. It's a question of power and I don't fault KP for exercising it when management has not given him any reason to give it the benefit of the doubt. And the fact that KP is a millionaire isn't going to distract me from that underlying issue.
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but I don't know what anyone can offer that would make me even think about it. I guess Boston can put a package together that would make me think, but I don't think I'd pull the trigger. KP is a building block that you would pray an early draft pick would turn into.
I don't know if this is an ego thing with Phil or if he's trying to send a message to the kid, but I don't like it at all. I'm not excusing KP's behavior either.
It seems the new theme is anti-management, which is dumb. It's his employer and he should tell them how he feels in his exit interview if he wants to do things the right way. There is no justifying skipping a meeting with your bosses.
skipping the meeting is one thing, you can call it a a lapse in judgement or whatever bit the continuing not answering hornaceks and phils calls is worrisome
So "be worried" for now. He wants to stay, his brother has openly said that, nothing to indicate he doesn't. Fly over and meet with him. You can send Hornacek all you want but be a man, a 71 year old man and speak face to face. Air out your issues.
You're excellent at creating straw-men and then pummeling them. Good for you.
I think the divide on this issue comes down to "now what?". There are those on BBI who think Beckham's OTA stuff = "no way I'm giving him a big contract when it's up" and those people are likely the same ones who are willing to trade KP based on the exit meeting stuff. I think you can both suggest it was potentially the "wrong" move and still agree (not suggesting YOU have to) but people can.. that it's nowhere near grounds to trade/consider trading such a player.
And keep being a selective reader who is mainly concerned with preening and being some pretend "adult in the room."
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He's employed by the Knicks. He should follow their rules. This ridiculous idea that these players should do whatever they want when they disagree with how the team is run is stupid.
I think the divide on this issue comes down to "now what?". There are those on BBI who think Beckham's OTA stuff = "no way I'm giving him a big contract when it's up" and those people are likely the same ones who are willing to trade KP based on the exit meeting stuff. I think you can both suggest it was potentially the "wrong" move and still agree (not suggesting YOU have to) but people can.. that it's nowhere near grounds to trade/consider trading such a player.
I think it was wrong. I think a professional should show up to the meeting and tell management what he thinks. Isn't that what an exit meeting is for? Tell them that you are unhappy with how they are running things.
It's certainly not something that would make me trade the player, especially not KP. I think it should be a teaching lesson for the kid on how to be a professional.
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but I don't know what anyone can offer that would make me even think about it. I guess Boston can put a package together that would make me think, but I don't think I'd pull the trigger. KP is a building block that you would pray an early draft pick would turn into.
I don't know if this is an ego thing with Phil or if he's trying to send a message to the kid, but I don't like it at all. I'm not excusing KP's behavior either.
It seems the new theme is anti-management, which is dumb. It's his employer and he should tell them how he feels in his exit interview if he wants to do things the right way. There is no justifying skipping a meeting with your bosses.
skipping the meeting is one thing, you can call it a a lapse in judgement or whatever bit the continuing not answering hornaceks and phils calls is worrisome
What's the reporting on this? Honest question. Looking for a link.
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He's employed by the Knicks. He should follow their rules. This ridiculous idea that these players should do whatever they want when they disagree with how the team is run is stupid.
I think the divide on this issue comes down to "now what?". There are those on BBI who think Beckham's OTA stuff = "no way I'm giving him a big contract when it's up" and those people are likely the same ones who are willing to trade KP based on the exit meeting stuff. I think you can both suggest it was potentially the "wrong" move and still agree (not suggesting YOU have to) but people can.. that it's nowhere near grounds to trade/consider trading such a player.
the people that would be ok with trading kp, for me anyway, need to be blown away...
i wouldnt even trade him for booker and 4...i am not giving him away
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In comment 13507385 Keith said:
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but I don't know what anyone can offer that would make me even think about it. I guess Boston can put a package together that would make me think, but I don't think I'd pull the trigger. KP is a building block that you would pray an early draft pick would turn into.
I don't know if this is an ego thing with Phil or if he's trying to send a message to the kid, but I don't like it at all. I'm not excusing KP's behavior either.
It seems the new theme is anti-management, which is dumb. It's his employer and he should tell them how he feels in his exit interview if he wants to do things the right way. There is no justifying skipping a meeting with your bosses.
skipping the meeting is one thing, you can call it a a lapse in judgement or whatever bit the continuing not answering hornaceks and phils calls is worrisome
What's the reporting on this? Honest question. Looking for a link.
hornacek during the combine said he called and texted him no response...
phil last night said no calls answered made it sound like he got a text or 2...
Everything Phil has done in his time here suggests otherwise. From the bizarre potshots at 3 point shooting and LeBron to the indecisiveness over whether trying to rebuild or contend (can't do both at the same time) to shitty FA signings to using the media to smear and pressure one of his best (and admittedly flawed) players into waiving the NTC that he gave him.
Phil has lost the benefit of the doubt from many fans and likely from KP too as he should.
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To is Boston. I want the 3rd pick this year and the Nets pick next year just to start. I'd also ask for Jaylen Brown and possibly another first in 2019 or a few seconds in 2017/2018.
this, suns do not have enough to make me want to do a trade...
top 5 this year is nice but next years picks are the value and like dan said they might be too good to get top 5...
I think that you guys have to come to grips with the fact that the minimum that you would accept is way way more than anyone would give. It's likely he's still on your team tomorrow.
hornacek during the combine said he called and texted him no response...
phil last night said no calls answered made it sound like he got a text or 2...
Actually, Hornacek said he sent a text to KP, and didnt answer when asked if KP responded. So you have no idea if KP responded. You also have no idea what the text said. Maybe it wasnt a question or request. Maybe it was "I know you're frustrated, we're working our asses off. We see the same problems and are addressing them". Doesnt need a response, and if it did a text may not be best.
So it's irresponsible for people to go around saying KP is ignoring Horny's texts.
I'll have to get a transcript to see what Phil said.
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 13507309 Big Rick in FL said:
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To is Boston. I want the 3rd pick this year and the Nets pick next year just to start. I'd also ask for Jaylen Brown and possibly another first in 2019 or a few seconds in 2017/2018.
this, suns do not have enough to make me want to do a trade...
top 5 this year is nice but next years picks are the value and like dan said they might be too good to get top 5...
Danny would be righl;y vilified forever if he came anywhere near that.
I think that you guys have to come to grips with the fact that the minimum that you would accept is way way more than anyone would give. It's likely he's still on your team tomorrow.
come to grips? ok so then the knicks keep kp, what is there to come to grips to?
and you know ainge is the same guy who offered four firsts for justice winslow right?
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hornacek during the combine said he called and texted him no response...
phil last night said no calls answered made it sound like he got a text or 2...
Actually, Hornacek said he sent a text to KP, and didnt answer when asked if KP responded. So you have no idea if KP responded. You also have no idea what the text said. Maybe it wasnt a question or request. Maybe it was "I know you're frustrated, we're working our asses off. We see the same problems and are addressing them". Doesnt need a response, and if it did a text may not be best.
So it's irresponsible for people to go around saying KP is ignoring Horny's texts.
I'll have to get a transcript to see what Phil said. Link - ( New Window )
ok fine he is not ignoring the knicks then...
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In comment 13507309 Big Rick in FL said:
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To is Boston. I want the 3rd pick this year and the Nets pick next year just to start. I'd also ask for Jaylen Brown and possibly another first in 2019 or a few seconds in 2017/2018.
this, suns do not have enough to make me want to do a trade...
top 5 this year is nice but next years picks are the value and like dan said they might be too good to get top 5...
Danny would be righl;y vilified forever if he came anywhere near that.
I think that you guys have to come to grips with the fact that the minimum that you would accept is way way more than anyone would give. It's likely he's still on your team tomorrow.
This is the second or third time you've said this. Yet you thought the putrid suggestion of Bradley, Crowder and a 1st was very fair. You are out of your mind. KP is a potential top 10 NBA player down the road. Yet you think a couple of 1st rounders and Jaylen Brown is excessive? Nobody knows how the draft picks will turn out. They could end up total busts. We all know what KP can be. He's got superstar upside. You are falling in love a little too much with your boy Ainges obsession for accumulating draft picks. You use draft picks HOPING to get a guy like KP. Who's also still only 21 years old.
If KP were in a Celtics uniform, you wouldn't be suggesting that Brown and a couple of 1sts is so ludicrous. The fans that watch him every day know how special he can be, otherwise their wouldn't be such universal disdain for any of these trade ideas. Avery Bradley and Crowder? Get the F outta here with that garbage.
ok fine he is not ignoring the knicks then...
Yeah, there is no evidence of that. You'd think, as leaky as shit is, that you'd have an express report that Kris is ignoring the Knicks. You dont. You have Marc Berman (a professional idiot) reporting his own suppositions from unanswered questions.
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In comment 13507312 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 13507309 Big Rick in FL said:
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To is Boston. I want the 3rd pick this year and the Nets pick next year just to start. I'd also ask for Jaylen Brown and possibly another first in 2019 or a few seconds in 2017/2018.
this, suns do not have enough to make me want to do a trade...
top 5 this year is nice but next years picks are the value and like dan said they might be too good to get top 5...
Danny would be righl;y vilified forever if he came anywhere near that.
I think that you guys have to come to grips with the fact that the minimum that you would accept is way way more than anyone would give. It's likely he's still on your team tomorrow.
come to grips? ok so then the knicks keep kp, what is there to come to grips to?
and you know ainge is the same guy who offered four firsts for justice winslow right?
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In comment 13507312 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 13507309 Big Rick in FL said:
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To is Boston. I want the 3rd pick this year and the Nets pick next year just to start. I'd also ask for Jaylen Brown and possibly another first in 2019 or a few seconds in 2017/2018.
this, suns do not have enough to make me want to do a trade...
top 5 this year is nice but next years picks are the value and like dan said they might be too good to get top 5...
Danny would be righl;y vilified forever if he came anywhere near that.
I think that you guys have to come to grips with the fact that the minimum that you would accept is way way more than anyone would give. It's likely he's still on your team tomorrow.
This is the second or third time you've said this. Yet you thought the putrid suggestion of Bradley, Crowder and a 1st was very fair. You are out of your mind. KP is a potential top 10 NBA player down the road. Yet you think a couple of 1st rounders and Jaylen Brown is excessive? Nobody knows how the draft picks will turn out. They could end up total busts. We all know what KP can be. He's got superstar upside. You are falling in love a little too much with your boy Ainges obsession for accumulating draft picks. You use draft picks HOPING to get a guy like KP. Who's also still only 21 years old.
If KP were in a Celtics uniform, you wouldn't be suggesting that Brown and a couple of 1sts is so ludicrous. The fans that watch him every day know how special he can be, otherwise their wouldn't be such universal disdain for any of these trade ideas. Avery Bradley and Crowder? Get the F outta here with that garbage.
-Knicks met with Collins
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ok fine he is not ignoring the knicks then...
Yeah, there is no evidence of that. You'd think, as leaky as shit is, that you'd have an express report that Kris is ignoring the Knicks. You dont. You have Marc Berman (a professional idiot) reporting his own suppositions from unanswered questions.
the whole thing just pisses me off, both sides all of this could of been avoided if they just talked before kp left, i dont care if they sat there yelling at each other...
i will never stop rooting for the knickd, i am just not built that way but this shot is just getting annoying
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In comment 13507427 Bill L said:
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In comment 13507312 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 13507309 Big Rick in FL said:
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To is Boston. I want the 3rd pick this year and the Nets pick next year just to start. I'd also ask for Jaylen Brown and possibly another first in 2019 or a few seconds in 2017/2018.
this, suns do not have enough to make me want to do a trade...
top 5 this year is nice but next years picks are the value and like dan said they might be too good to get top 5...
Danny would be righl;y vilified forever if he came anywhere near that.
I think that you guys have to come to grips with the fact that the minimum that you would accept is way way more than anyone would give. It's likely he's still on your team tomorrow.
This is the second or third time you've said this. Yet you thought the putrid suggestion of Bradley, Crowder and a 1st was very fair. You are out of your mind. KP is a potential top 10 NBA player down the road. Yet you think a couple of 1st rounders and Jaylen Brown is excessive? Nobody knows how the draft picks will turn out. They could end up total busts. We all know what KP can be. He's got superstar upside. You are falling in love a little too much with your boy Ainges obsession for accumulating draft picks. You use draft picks HOPING to get a guy like KP. Who's also still only 21 years old.
If KP were in a Celtics uniform, you wouldn't be suggesting that Brown and a couple of 1sts is so ludicrous. The fans that watch him every day know how special he can be, otherwise their wouldn't be such universal disdain for any of these trade ideas. Avery Bradley and Crowder? Get the F outta here with that garbage.
Now I've said it 4 times. I think it's you who is doing the over-valuing.
It's not just us. Have you paid attention to some of the league wide tweets coming down? Apparently there are some players on other teams that are pretty excited to try to persuade KP to their teams as well. Durant seems like a pretty big fan based on his prior comments, etc...but yeah, the fans who watch him every day and don't want him traded are over valuing him. You think that if he was being overvalued, there would be SOMEBODY, somewhere advocating for them to trade him for a package like you suggest? It is absolutely 100% universal that it should take a huge haul if they deal him. So yeah, I'm gonna go with it being YOU that is off on this.
-Knicks met with Collins
I AM THE WINNER OF THE INTERNET!!
-Knicks met with Collins
Begley tried to pass off info he got from Janis back in April as new intel two days ago, then minutes after it was announced that Phil had an interview coming up on MSG last night Begley corrected himself that there had been communication because he knew Phil was going to mention that there had been communication. Its easy to spew bullshit when no one from the Knicks ever talks, but he had to cover himself once he knew the bullshit would get called out.
It's not just us. Have you paid attention to some of the league wide tweets coming down? Apparently there are some players on other teams that are pretty excited to try to persuade KP to their teams as well. Durant seems like a pretty big fan based on his prior comments, etc...but yeah, the fans who watch him every day and don't want him traded are over valuing him. You think that if he was being overvalued, there would be SOMEBODY, somewhere advocating for them to trade him for a package like you suggest? It is absolutely 100% universal that it should take a huge haul if they deal him. So yeah, I'm gonna go with it being YOU that is off on this.
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9deleted stuff)...
It's not just us. Have you paid attention to some of the league wide tweets coming down? Apparently there are some players on other teams that are pretty excited to try to persuade KP to their teams as well. Durant seems like a pretty big fan based on his prior comments, etc...but yeah, the fans who watch him every day and don't want him traded are over valuing him. You think that if he was being overvalued, there would be SOMEBODY, somewhere advocating for them to trade him for a package like you suggest? It is absolutely 100% universal that it should take a huge haul if they deal him. So yeah, I'm gonna go with it being YOU that is off on this.
I have paid attention. The reports I saw were that the club itself is asking for a top 4 pick and an established starting player. That's way less than a #3, A#3 player last year and for sure starter in time, and a potential #1, best player in the draft. Heck, you might not have thought it was fair, but #3, Bradley and Crowder actually *exceed* that asking price if what was reported is true. Although, to me Crowder makes little sense if you're taking Josh Jackson.
Crowder and Bradley don't make sense at all of the Knicks. Knicks should be rebuilding. Bradley and Crowder are in their primes. They don't align with what the Knicks should be doing unless Phil is still trying to compete.
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In comment 13507465 BigBlueShock said:
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9deleted stuff)...
It's not just us. Have you paid attention to some of the league wide tweets coming down? Apparently there are some players on other teams that are pretty excited to try to persuade KP to their teams as well. Durant seems like a pretty big fan based on his prior comments, etc...but yeah, the fans who watch him every day and don't want him traded are over valuing him. You think that if he was being overvalued, there would be SOMEBODY, somewhere advocating for them to trade him for a package like you suggest? It is absolutely 100% universal that it should take a huge haul if they deal him. So yeah, I'm gonna go with it being YOU that is off on this.
I have paid attention. The reports I saw were that the club itself is asking for a top 4 pick and an established starting player. That's way less than a #3, A#3 player last year and for sure starter in time, and a potential #1, best player in the draft. Heck, you might not have thought it was fair, but #3, Bradley and Crowder actually *exceed* that asking price if what was reported is true. Although, to me Crowder makes little sense if you're taking Josh Jackson.
Crowder and Bradley don't make sense at all of the Knicks. Knicks should be rebuilding. Bradley and Crowder are in their primes. They don't align with what the Knicks should be doing unless Phil is still trying to compete.
But that's why it would make perfect sense for Phil. Recall his signing Rose and Noah all the while claiming to rebuild. He has not stuck to a plan and that shambolic approach is the reason we're here today.
watch rose sign with spurs and become mvp rose again
Also why didn't Hornacek, Phil or someone from the Knicks go to KPs apartment to sit down with him and talk it out. If your girlfriend, wife or family member is pissed at you, do you stop trying after they don't return your texts or calls? No make an effort to patch things up. He's the most important person in the franchise right now. Shit go take a trip to Latvia to visit him.
Instead Phil Jackson fires his favorite coach who was supposed to train him all summer and publicly threaten to trade him.
I have no idea how anyone can defend this moron running the Knicks. They guy does nothing right.
as a Knicks fan i'm going to be plopped on my couch with a handful of xanax.
I hate this franchise.
Also why didn't Hornacek, Phil or someone from the Knicks go to KPs apartment to sit down with him and talk it out. If your girlfriend, wife or family member is pissed at you, do you stop trying after they don't return your texts or calls? No make an effort to patch things up. He's the most important person in the franchise right now. Shit go take a trip to Latvia to visit him.
Instead Phil Jackson fires his favorite coach who was supposed to train him all summer and publicly threaten to trade him.
I have no idea how anyone can defend this moron running the Knicks. They guy does nothing right.
Asking out of SAS is a red flag.
LMA is sort of a bitch.
Also why didn't Hornacek, Phil or someone from the Knicks go to KPs apartment to sit down with him and talk it out. If your girlfriend, wife or family member is pissed at you, do you stop trying after they don't return your texts or calls? No make an effort to patch things up. He's the most important person in the franchise right now. Shit go take a trip to Latvia to visit him.
Instead Phil Jackson fires his favorite coach who was supposed to train him all summer and publicly threaten to trade him.
I have no idea how anyone can defend this moron running the Knicks. They guy does nothing right.
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is now asking to be traded.
Asking out of SAS is a red flag.
Noah for LMA, spin him somewhere else. DO IT!!!! Noah seems like a Spur. Make it happen.
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is now asking to be traded.
LMA is sort of a bitch.
Spurs want a top 10 pick for him...meanwhile the Knicks have to buy out Melo. If that doesnt tell you how bad Phil is at his job I dont know what will.
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In comment 13507537 DanMetroMan said:
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is now asking to be traded.
LMA is sort of a bitch.
Spurs want a top 10 pick for him...meanwhile the Knicks have to buy out Melo. If that doesnt tell you how bad Phil is at his job I dont know what will.
there is a difference between wanting a top 10 pick and getting a top 10 pick, anyone who trades a top 10 pick for aldrisge is a fucking moron
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In comment 13507537 DanMetroMan said:
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is now asking to be traded.
Asking out of SAS is a red flag.
Noah for LMA, spin him somewhere else. DO IT!!!! Noah seems like a Spur. Make it happen.
Hehe. He seems like a Spur alright. Like Duncan and Robinson, he should be retired already.
good luck. The 58th pick has close to zero value.
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is now asking to be traded.
Asking out of SAS is a red flag.
Too much pressure. People actually expect you to be present and good during the postseason.
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44 and 58 to move up, begely specualting its josh hart
good luck. The 58th pick has close to zero value.
josh hart is mocked to go early 2nd, my guess is they are packaging those 2 to jjst move up in the 2md round..
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In comment 13507537 DanMetroMan said:
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is now asking to be traded.
Asking out of SAS is a red flag.
Too much pressure. People actually expect you to be present and good during the postseason.
that's him in a nutshell. He wants to "be the man" without any of the responsibility.
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In comment 13507554 nygiants16 said:
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44 and 58 to move up, begely specualting its josh hart
good luck. The 58th pick has close to zero value.
josh hart is mocked to go early 2nd, my guess is they are packaging those 2 to jjst move up in the 2md round..
yeah, and I'm saying I have doubts that any team is going to take 44 and 58 for an early second rounder. The drop off from the first half of the second round to the second half is huge. Usually, it's easy to buy those late second rounders because teams with roster crunches can't use them.
Thank G.
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In comment 13507540 Enzo said:
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In comment 13507537 DanMetroMan said:
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is now asking to be traded.
LMA is sort of a bitch.
Spurs want a top 10 pick for him...meanwhile the Knicks have to buy out Melo. If that doesnt tell you how bad Phil is at his job I dont know what will.
there is a difference between wanting a top 10 pick and getting a top 10 pick, anyone who trades a top 10 pick for aldrisge is a fucking moron
agree on that. the point is that one guy is setting value high, while the other guy has his hitman, Rosen, writing an article on all of KP's flaws and why he should be dealt (after saying that Melo sucks and that he has to be traded). Setting market vs. devaluing assets.
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In comment 13507563 Enzo said:
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In comment 13507554 nygiants16 said:
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44 and 58 to move up, begely specualting its josh hart
good luck. The 58th pick has close to zero value.
josh hart is mocked to go early 2nd, my guess is they are packaging those 2 to jjst move up in the 2md round..
yeah, and I'm saying I have doubts that any team is going to take 44 and 58 for an early second rounder. The drop off from the first half of the second round to the second half is huge. Usually, it's easy to buy those late second rounders because teams with roster crunches can't use them.
yeah i get ehat you are saying, probably wont know if it works until that pick comes...
portland almost has to trade a contract with the salary cap dropping thwy are over the luxury tax..
This is the same guy who was declaring on sportscenter that lebron wasn't going to Cleveland... just as Lebron was announcing he was returning to Cle.
I know there's ton of bad NBA reporters but he takes the cake.
This is the same guy who was declaring on sportscenter that lebron wasn't going to Cleveland... just as Lebron was announcing he was returning to Cle.
I know there's ton of bad NBA reporters but he takes the cake.
not defending windbag but a lot reporters are speculating griffin leaked that to make the cavs look bad
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 41m41 minutes ago
Another source tells me #Suns & #Knicks are in fact "down the road" on #Porzingis ..."Bledsoe, Chriss, and the 4th gets it done" #NBADraft
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 1h1 hour ago
The #Suns have gotten numerous calls on 4th pick & held firm their preference is to make the pick unless they get blown away #NBADraft
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 1h1 hour ago
I am told #Suns hv said they will not give up Booker in any deal, or two young players, but would trade a vet and young guy for #Porzingis
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
...multiple players and multiple picks for #Porzingis, they are now at 2 players and a pick. And like a player and a pick for Porzingis.
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
In the last 12 hours the #Knicks have become much more flexible in trying to make a deal for a top 5 pick. They started at...
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
Source tells me #Suns are hesitant to deal two players and the pick for #Porzingis "won't do two players"
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
#NBA Source tells me #Knicks have told #Porzingis a #Suns deal is close, Porzingis brother told my source the deal is "likely" #NBADraft
But how do you go from reporting that they had a deal agreed upon for the 4th pick to Love not generating enough interest in 48 hours. Griffin doesn't matter that much.
It's just lame that he could throw out complete bullshit and not be held accountable.
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 41m41 minutes ago
Another source tells me #Suns & #Knicks are in fact "down the road" on #Porzingis ..."Bledsoe, Chriss, and the 4th gets it done" #NBADraft
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 1h1 hour ago
The #Suns have gotten numerous calls on 4th pick & held firm their preference is to make the pick unless they get blown away #NBADraft
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 1h1 hour ago
I am told #Suns hv said they will not give up Booker in any deal, or two young players, but would trade a vet and young guy for #Porzingis
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
...multiple players and multiple picks for #Porzingis, they are now at 2 players and a pick. And like a player and a pick for Porzingis.
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
In the last 12 hours the #Knicks have become much more flexible in trying to make a deal for a top 5 pick. They started at...
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
Source tells me #Suns are hesitant to deal two players and the pick for #Porzingis "won't do two players"
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
#NBA Source tells me #Knicks have told #Porzingis a #Suns deal is close, Porzingis brother told my source the deal is "likely" #NBADraft
I have no problem trading Porzingis. But these deals are bullshit and horseshit squared. I would need Booker, the 4th pick, next year's pick, and a fucking swap down the line.
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It looks like he's a sports radio host in Phoenix but you never know with these things...
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 41m41 minutes ago
Another source tells me #Suns & #Knicks are in fact "down the road" on #Porzingis ..."Bledsoe, Chriss, and the 4th gets it done" #NBADraft
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 1h1 hour ago
The #Suns have gotten numerous calls on 4th pick & held firm their preference is to make the pick unless they get blown away #NBADraft
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 1h1 hour ago
I am told #Suns hv said they will not give up Booker in any deal, or two young players, but would trade a vet and young guy for #Porzingis
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
...multiple players and multiple picks for #Porzingis, they are now at 2 players and a pick. And like a player and a pick for Porzingis.
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
In the last 12 hours the #Knicks have become much more flexible in trying to make a deal for a top 5 pick. They started at...
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
Source tells me #Suns are hesitant to deal two players and the pick for #Porzingis "won't do two players"
Tim Montemayor @TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
#NBA Source tells me #Knicks have told #Porzingis a #Suns deal is close, Porzingis brother told my source the deal is "likely" #NBADraft
I have no problem trading Porzingis. But these deals are bullshit and horseshit squared. I would need Booker, the 4th pick, next year's pick, and a fucking swap down the line.
Gimme Bender too and take Noah
Phoenix has Miami's pick next year (1-7 protected and unprotected in 2019)
It'd be the definition of a 4 quarters for a dollar trade.
But how do you go from reporting that they had a deal agreed upon for the 4th pick to Love not generating enough interest in 48 hours. Griffin doesn't matter that much.
It's just lame that he could throw out complete bullshit and not be held accountable.
tyree we argue a lot on here, but i agree with you 100 percent on this, writers can get 95 percent wromg amd that 1 thing right they are revered for it...
i hate woj as a writer but no one comes close breaking stories
Making a team absorb Noah's contract diminishes the return on the deal, especially when cap room isn't our biggest concern right now.
Let's not forget that Phil's first signing...was a crack head.
Isiah was bad, but there's been plenty of GMs who've made horrific trades involving draft picks that end up in the lottery. That's sort of a normal thing in the NBA. But what Phil is doing with KP is next-level malpractice.
You aren't excited by the prospect of giving Bledsoe 5 for 205 in 2 years?
Actually, cap wise, the better fit is Lee and KP for Bledsoe, Criss and the #8.
That would also allow the Knicks to spin off Bledsoe to another team with Melo to make the deal more palatable. For example, do the Cavs become more willing to deal Kyrie Irving in a deal for Melo (to a third team) if they are getting back Bledsoe?
You seriously do that?
I can't believe some of these trade offers. Did anyone watch the Suns last year? Chriss and Bender were complete garbage. And they have injury concerns about KP but not Bledsoe? Come onnnn.
You wanna talk about trading KP for Giannis, Brow, Jokic, KAT then that's obviously worth a discussion but also not happening. You just don't trade a guy like this at this point in his career. Case closed.
Ian Begley @IanBegley 2m2 minutes ago
Opposing executives say MIN is considering using No. 7 pick as part of package for a Butler trade: http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0669588485790767196-4
Jay Williams just said that talking to a top 15 player in this draft the player told him Phil was falling in and out of sleep during workout
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#5, #10 & Hield?
You seriously do that?
I can't believe some of these trade offers. Did anyone watch the Suns last year? Chriss and Bender were complete garbage. And they have injury concerns about KP but not Bledsoe? Come onnnn.
You wanna talk about trading KP for Giannis, Brow, Jokic, KAT then that's obviously worth a discussion but also not happening. You just don't trade a guy like this at this point in his career. Case closed.
THIS is hysterical.
ALL of those clubs would hang up laughing all the way at those trade offers.
It is one thing to like a player, it is another thing to have have delusional valuations on a player.
Jay Williams just said that talking to a top 15 player in this draft the player told him Phil was falling in and out of sleep during workout
funny because everything we have heard from prospects was phil has been very active in the workouts...
there was a 2nd rounder i forfet who who said phil was on the court teaching...
interesting
Then trade Melo to Clev for two future #1s
That way you stockpile number one picks and your core is:
Jackson
Smith/Monk
Bender
Then you get another top 3 pick next year. Maybe even the #1 pick.
I love KP but he already has foot/leg problems. Might be the safer bet to deal him if you can get a haul in return
First off, I am a Cavs fan living in OH. the cavs are not able to trade away any 1st round picks, and even if they could, why on earth would they trade 2 for melo??? i understand fandom, but that is outrageous!
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In comment 13507695 Carl in CT said:
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#5, #10 & Hield?
You seriously do that?
I can't believe some of these trade offers. Did anyone watch the Suns last year? Chriss and Bender were complete garbage. And they have injury concerns about KP but not Bledsoe? Come onnnn.
You wanna talk about trading KP for Giannis, Brow, Jokic, KAT then that's obviously worth a discussion but also not happening. You just don't trade a guy like this at this point in his career. Case closed.
THIS is hysterical.
ALL of those clubs would hang up laughing all the way at those trade offers.
It is one thing to like a player, it is another thing to have have delusional valuations on a player.
Your overall point might be true BUT say Anthony Davis (for example) suddenly asks out/becomes available... what players around the league do you think a presumably "rebuilding" team will be looking for? The KP/Bookers of the world. What is KP's floor? A very good NBA starter? His upside is what? Franchise player? How many guys under 23 do you take over KP? Keep KP.
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but Pho has to throw in a #1 in 2020/1 that is unprotected.
Then trade Melo to Clev for two future #1s
That way you stockpile number one picks and your core is:
Jackson
Smith/Monk
Bender
Then you get another top 3 pick next year. Maybe even the #1 pick.
I love KP but he already has foot/leg problems. Might be the safer bet to deal him if you can get a haul in return
First off, I am a Cavs fan living in OH. the cavs are not able to trade away any 1st round picks, and even if they could, why on earth would they trade 2 for melo??? i understand fandom, but that is outrageous!
The issue is the Cavs can't trade their picks until 2021 and 2023 which reduces their value via trade. The flip side is at that point the Cavs likely aren't very good and the picks are valuable.
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In comment 13507695 Carl in CT said:
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#5, #10 & Hield?
You seriously do that?
I can't believe some of these trade offers. Did anyone watch the Suns last year? Chriss and Bender were complete garbage. And they have injury concerns about KP but not Bledsoe? Come onnnn.
You wanna talk about trading KP for Giannis, Brow, Jokic, KAT then that's obviously worth a discussion but also not happening. You just don't trade a guy like this at this point in his career. Case closed.
THIS is hysterical.
ALL of those clubs would hang up laughing all the way at those trade offers.
It is one thing to like a player, it is another thing to have have delusional valuations on a player.
Similar to how the rest of the league is laughing at the Knicks for shopping Porzingis around? I also said it wasn't happening.
Giannis- no chance
KAT and Brow- you ever know but highly highly doubtful
Jokic- it's close. If I'm Denver I would do it. KP is an elite rim protector. I don't think people realize how unique that is with his shooting. I would venture to say many NBA execs would pick Porzingis over Jokic.
Jay Williams just said that talking to a top 15 player in this draft the player told him Phil was falling in and out of sleep during workout
Statements like this make the current Media crop look like jokes. Jay Williams is a hack.
Bledsoe, Chriss, #4, Sun's 2019 #1/ and Miami's 2018/2019 choice.
Still, it's depressing its come to this. If we tanked properly.. we have Porzingis and Jackson playing together.
I think KP is perennial All-Star if he stays healthy. They must really love Jackson to do this. I do too, but it was in the context of KP and Jackson playing together as a great fit. Giving up a future cornerstone because of an exit interview is risky.
I'm in. I prefer DSJ but fine with Monk. Just keep KP. Please.
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Steve PopperVerified account @StevePopper 5m5 minutes ago
Jay Williams just said that talking to a top 15 player in this draft the player told him Phil was falling in and out of sleep during workout
Statements like this make the current Media crop look like jokes. Jay Williams is a hack.
I can't think any less of Phil Jackson and think he deserved to be fired awhile ago. But I agree that report is bullshit and highly doubtful.
Read more at http://www.slamonline.com/nba/kristaps-porzingis-trade-likely-phoenix-suns/#SYpkdk5RzbDTZRsC.99
Keep in mind that Bledsoe could be packaged with Melo to make a deal more palatable. Sometimes a monster deal is defined as WHERE the players involved in the deal end up.
For example, if you send Bledsoe and Melo to the Cavs in a 3 (or 4) team deal, does that free up the Cavs to include Irving in a deal?
James Dolan will skip NBA Draft for concert with his band, JD & The Straight Shot
Read more at http://www.slamonline.com/nba/kristaps-porzingis-trade-likely-phoenix-suns/#SYpkdk5RzbDTZRsC.99
They are citing the same radio host who posted this garbage 3 hours ago. Nothing new to see.
Phil Jackson admitted in an interview on the eve of the draft that the Knicks are entertaining offers for Porzingis.
The Boston Celtics are one of the teams engaged with the Knicks on Porzingis as the Knicks attempt to trade into the top-4.
Both David Aldridge and Sam Amick refute a report that the Phoenix Suns are closing in on a deal for Porzingis.
ADRIAN WOJNAROWSKI/THE VERTICAL
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In comment 13507210 Vanzetti said:
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but Pho has to throw in a #1 in 2020/1 that is unprotected.
Then trade Melo to Clev for two future #1s
That way you stockpile number one picks and your core is:
Jackson
Smith/Monk
Bender
Then you get another top 3 pick next year. Maybe even the #1 pick.
I love KP but he already has foot/leg problems. Might be the safer bet to deal him if you can get a haul in return
First off, I am a Cavs fan living in OH. the cavs are not able to trade away any 1st round picks, and even if they could, why on earth would they trade 2 for melo??? i understand fandom, but that is outrageous!
The issue is the Cavs can't trade their picks until 2021 and 2023 which reduces their value via trade. The flip side is at that point the Cavs likely aren't very good and the picks are valuable.
Yep Dan I agree that that should probably be a trade the Knicks look at. 2021/23 Cav picks could easily be like the Nets picks the Celtics got. I could see the Cavs doing it as a last ditch attempt to win another title before the window closes.
pass the paper over, I'll sign for that.
I couldn't agree more. Porzingis is already very good with upside to be great (Patrick and Melo get the "look at the PG's!!!" excuse and yet 20-21 year old KP does not?) and the upside to attract other players...
If they'll do that for Lee and 58, they'll do it for just Lee. Not one is signing up for $30 million of Courtney Lee if and only if they get the 58th pick in the draft.
Dead on description
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available. Lee and 58 for Rubio. Draft Monk. Keep KP. Thanks.
If they'll do that for Lee and 58, they'll do it for just Lee. Not one is signing up for $30 million of Courtney Lee if and only if they get the 58th pick in the draft.
They can throw 58 at the Bulls in their Butler package. I just really like the idea of Rubio with KP (please stay) and Willy with whomever we take at 8. Rubio isn't a great player but I truly believe he will both improve us at the 1 and help develop our bigs.
Fuck man I love KP.
Why Bledsoe?? He provides nothing for long term. I'd rather have Ulis and Bender.
Marc SteinVerified account @ESPNSteinLine 2m2 minutes ago
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The Celtics remain in trade pursuit of Kristaps Porzingis, league sources say, trying to assemble a package to meet the Knicks' demands.
If you want to trade him, trade him to Phoenix. We only see them twice a year anyways.
Ugh. KP in Celtics green...enough to want to make me puke.
And as I write this Stein reports the Celtics are putting together a package to meet the Knicks demands. He'll be perfect for them and man will it hurt to see him in green.
I'm against any trade, but that package better start with
2017 3rd overall
Brooklyn 2018 pick
LA/ Sac pick 2018-2019
2019 Memphis pick.
What it really will be
3rd overall
Crowder
Smart or Bradley
If you want to trade him, trade him to Phoenix. We only see them twice a year anyways.
Ugh. KP in Celtics green...enough to want to make me puke.
Understood. However if we can get a handful of potential top 5 picks and a nice young player then we're not competing with anyone for the near future. By the time those picks hopefully come of age, The Celts will be on the down side or at least will be able to compete with that version of them. You go for the best return.
If that's the haul we'd get back, I'm done. Completely done.
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In comment 13507787 DanMetroMan said:
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available. Lee and 58 for Rubio. Draft Monk. Keep KP. Thanks.
If they'll do that for Lee and 58, they'll do it for just Lee. Not one is signing up for $30 million of Courtney Lee if and only if they get the 58th pick in the draft.
They can throw 58 at the Bulls in their Butler package. I just really like the idea of Rubio with KP (please stay) and Willy with whomever we take at 8. Rubio isn't a great player but I truly believe he will both improve us at the 1 and help develop our bigs.
I'll guarantee you that there isnt a deal for Butler that will turn on whether CHI gets the 58 pick.
The 58 pick is like two guys haggling over the last $50 bucks on a $10k used car sale. They can stomp their feet until they're blue in the face, but neither is walking away over $50. It's a battle of the wills. And the Knicks should hold out in this hypothetical trade. The 58 pick is more meaningful to them given the chaff on their roster.
At a minimum. At the bare minimum you're getting this year's 3 & the Nets pick next year. That's just the jumping off point.
Phil is completely useless. This is like the Mavs trading Dirk after his second season.
I really can't believe the Knicks are this incompetent, but they probably are. What a joke.
This. Odds of either of those picks becoming as good as KP are slim, so it better be #3 and BKN 2018 + more picks (none of the players they'd include are game changers).
Otherwise, at least my local team (TWolves) have a bright future.
If it is about the future (which I doubt), then he needs to move Melo too. Suck as much as possible in 2018 and at least then ensure your own 2018 pick is top 5.
And he's talking like he's some washed up 31 year old.
KP IS THE FREAKING FUTURE!
From your lips to God's ear. I just feel like this is cascading towards a move.
Yeah there is huge risk in taking the Lakers pick. I'd want the better of the BK or LA pick in any trade (ideally both).
They should be asking for that plus another pick, i don't even think about it without another pick
la pick is pritected 2 through 5 right?
Brown's adviser is Zeke lol
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knicks asking fir 3 next years bkn pick, crowder and brown
They should be asking for that plus another pick, i don't even think about it without another pick
one more pick wpukd be ideal
This is the correct ask and a deal I could live with.
I think I actually prefer doing this deal to not doing it.
Yes, I'm aware that there is no indication Boston would consider this.
According to a Knicks source, Jackson is asking for the third overall pick in Thursday's draft as well as next year's Brooklyn pick along with Jaylen Brown and Jae Crowder. This version of the deal would not include Boston taking on Joakim Noah's contract.
The Celtics feel the price is far too high but they are open to tweaking the deal to include just one draft pick, either this year's No. 3 or next year's Brooklyn pick.
Brown's adviser is Zeke lol
That's what I like to hear!
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In comment 13507891 nygiants16 said:
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knicks asking fir 3 next years bkn pick, crowder and brown
They should be asking for that plus another pick, i don't even think about it without another pick
one more pick wpukd be ideal
Celtics reportedly aren't even willing to give both of those picks let alone add another.
One pick would be laughably bad. Almost no chance that one pick winds up anywhere near as good as KP down the road.
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Phil Jackson is asking for Boston's #3, Brooklyns pick next year, Jaylen Brown, and Jae Crowder, in return for Porzingis, per @FisolaNYDN.
Brown's adviser is Zeke lol
That's what I like to hear!
Would still suck but could stomach that if BK stays as terrible as it is.
According to a Knicks source, Jackson is asking for the third overall pick in Thursday's draft as well as next year's Brooklyn pick along with Jaylen Brown and Jae Crowder. This version of the deal would not include Boston taking on Joakim Noah's contract.
The Celtics feel the price is far too high but they are open to tweaking the deal to include just one draft pick, either this year's No. 3 or next year's Brooklyn pick.
At a minimum, you get the 3 this year & Brooklyn's pick next year. At a minimum.
Not enough. Honestly, it's not enough. It's Jackson (who has a hole in his game) and then the BK pick could be anywhere from 1 to mid lottery. This isnt like this year's BK pick where you know where it is.
We should get both BK picks in value plus Smart, and another ok #1. So that means we should next year's BK pick and what Philly gave up to move to #1, Smart, and another #1 somewhere.
But really, I dont want to trade KP. Cant I just root for him?
Pass.
Josh Jackson is nothing to sneeze at. It looks like we are witnessing a war between Porz's brother (woj) and Phil (aldridge) in the media. Nothing is done yet and would think we would get more than Chriss, Bledsoe, and #4. That deal is light.
Or the Lakers pick will be number 1 and the Sixers keep it.
Not to beat a dead horse, but picks are nice but are highly risky. The Nets could become better than expected and the pick comes in around 10. I love
josh Jackson but want if he never becomes a good shooter? He's still a risky pick- they all are. Look at the shitty teams who have high picks every year. And do you trust Jackson to do this? This isn't Buford or Ainge.
You hope a top pick shows the potential KP has. But those exit interviews are important!!
The Celtics have hoarded these draft picks in case some moron GM trades a player like KP. Ainge has found that moron...
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I hang up the phone. I'm not really interested in any of their players.
This. Odds of either of those picks becoming as good as KP are slim, so it better be #3 and BKN 2018 + more picks (none of the players they'd include are game changers).
Otherwise, at least my local team (TWolves) have a bright future.
You'd have to start with that, plus several more players, both backcourt and forward positions. At least the two picks and two very significant young pieces.
Josh Jackson is nothing to sneeze at. It looks like we are witnessing a war between Porz's brother (woj) and Phil (aldridge) in the media. Nothing is done yet and would think we would get more than Chriss, Bledsoe, and #4. That deal is light.
I like Jackson quite a bit but given his current offensive game his ultimate upside is in question. His range of outcomes is huge and none of them realistically matches KP.
That's not the deal. That's what Phil asked for. Celtics are not willing to include both 3 AND the Nets pick
#3 OR Nets pick, Crowder and Brown... PASS
Still would need the superstar player to truly compete for a title.
The Knicks have all of the leverage here, yet the way the media is talking it almost sounds like the Knicks are desperate to trade him.
There shouldn't be any negotiation. The Knicks dont have to trade him. Tell teams your price, and dont move off of it. No negotiating, we either get this package or we're keeping him.
3 and those 2 players is a laughable package.
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that would put us in a good position IF we hit on those picks. 3 and 8 this year plus a top 3 pick next year and 2 quality players on great contracts.
That's not the deal. That's what Phil asked for. Celtics are not willing to include both 3 AND the Nets pick
#3 OR Nets pick, Crowder and Brown... PASS
There is no deal. I am aware that was the ask. That would be the minimum id be willing to trade for. If we did that, it woudl still be a risk because as Mook says, we still need that centerpiece player so the risk is that none of the picks pan out to be as good as KP.
They can keep Crowder.
#3, BKN pick and Brown is my START. Through in Euros/other firsts on top of that.
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have hope.
Josh Jackson is nothing to sneeze at. It looks like we are witnessing a war between Porz's brother (woj) and Phil (aldridge) in the media. Nothing is done yet and would think we would get more than Chriss, Bledsoe, and #4. That deal is light.
I like Jackson quite a bit but given his current offensive game his ultimate upside is in question. His range of outcomes is huge and none of them realistically matches KP.
Right. KP is a bird in hand. We know he's an elite rim protector and a 20+ ppg scorer once he gets more shots (ie no Melo/Rose). Could be a 25 ppg guy.
Picks are picks. Wide range of outcomes. Very little chance Jackson is better than KP. I really think #3 and the BK pick plus those two players is not enough.
Agreed. I'd also want Ulis and Bender as throw ins.
Jackson confirmed it himself last night. He might as well have put a for sale sign up. This isn't speculation- this is real. I truly hope it doesn't happen but stop pretending like this is media speculation.
I agree, but I also dont want to see any trade other than a ripoff.
If we get what we want for KP, I like Markkanen
Still not a good deal. You'd do KP for Josh Jackson, Crowder and say Justin Jackson? Zach Collins? Kennard? No way from me.
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In comment 13507921 RAIN said:
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have hope.
Josh Jackson is nothing to sneeze at. It looks like we are witnessing a war between Porz's brother (woj) and Phil (aldridge) in the media. Nothing is done yet and would think we would get more than Chriss, Bledsoe, and #4. That deal is light.
I like Jackson quite a bit but given his current offensive game his ultimate upside is in question. His range of outcomes is huge and none of them realistically matches KP.
Right. KP is a bird in hand. We know he's an elite rim protector and a 20+ ppg scorer once he gets more shots (ie no Melo/Rose). Could be a 25 ppg guy.
Picks are picks. Wide range of outcomes. Very little chance Jackson is better than KP. I really think #3 and the BK pick plus those two players is not enough.
I think Ainge could pull the trigger on a big deal. He's been piling up picks. KP is a "guaranteed" young stud as opposed to all these picks he's been loading on. He fits both their win now and rebuild mantra. If he wants to get the deal done by tonight, let him throw all his cards on the table to do so.
Jackson confirmed it himself last night. He might as well have put a for sale sign up. This isn't speculation- this is real. I truly hope it doesn't happen but stop pretending like this is media speculation.
yeah i was one i will fully admit i am shocked
Or we keep Noah and they throw in another pick
my wife is pregnant so we have a doctors appintment today, i already told her sorry i am going tk be on my fone
And if they're not willing to give that up, I guess they don't want him that badly.
Where are the two extra players coming from?
Or we keep Noah and they throw in another pick
I don't want Noah to be a part of this in any way. I want to extract a full price for KP if I'm moving him.
Where are you getting 3 lottery picks from? And who is suggesting the pick is an additional top 5-6 pick (high enough to pick Fox?). Why would you include Monk (the Knicks already have that pick).
And Markannen is not KP 2.0. Awful defender who doesn't protect the rim and a terrible rebounder. None of these trades make any sense which is why I fully expect Phil to make them.
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3 and BK pick next year plus two players and they take Noah back
Or we keep Noah and they throw in another pick
I don't want Noah to be a part of this in any way. I want to extract a full price for KP if I'm moving him.
Agreed, either get a shitton of picks from Boston or Booker, Chriss and 4th pick from Suns. If not then don't move him. He is the future
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but is say jackson, fox, and monk for kp enough?
Where are you getting 3 lottery picks from? And who is suggesting the pick is an additional top 5-6 pick (high enough to pick Fox?). Why would you include Monk (the Knicks already have that pick).
I think he's going off the tweet that Boston is trying to add another lottery pick to give to the knicks.
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but is say jackson, fox, and monk for kp enough?
Where are you getting 3 lottery picks from? And who is suggesting the pick is an additional top 5-6 pick (high enough to pick Fox?). Why would you include Monk (the Knicks already have that pick).
yeah your right...
i am hiping it is top 5, if it is after the knicks pick no thanks...
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3 and BK pick next year plus two players and they take Noah back
Or we keep Noah and they throw in another pick
I don't want Noah to be a part of this in any way. I want to extract a full price for KP if I'm moving him.
nah, fuck that. Make them take Noah and then send Horford back in addition to all the picks! Also insist on Crowder and anything else of value that isn't nailed down. No need for Bradley or Smart. I want to part of paying them next summer. There's a reason guys with KP's ceiling are never traded. The haul in return for him should reflect that.
Another new tidbit:
Michael Scotto
@MikeAScotto
Boston Celtics have spoken to the Minnesota Timberwolves about acquiring the 7th pick in the draft, league sources told Basketball Insiders.
So tonights 3rd, 7th + Player?
No deal with Boston worth discussing without #3 and the Nets 2018 #1.
Another new tidbit:
Michael Scotto
@MikeAScotto
Boston Celtics have spoken to the Minnesota Timberwolves about acquiring the 7th pick in the draft, league sources told Basketball Insiders.
So tonights 3rd, 7th + Player?
NOPE. I want the Brooklyn pick. If that's off the table, then the entire fucking thing is off the table.
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Amidst Porzingis discussions, Knicks met with Zach Collins last night, sources told @JeremyWoo and I. Collins had dinner with Phil Jackson.
Another new tidbit:
Michael Scotto
@MikeAScotto
Boston Celtics have spoken to the Minnesota Timberwolves about acquiring the 7th pick in the draft, league sources told Basketball Insiders.
So tonights 3rd, 7th + Player?
So let's say Jackson, Isaac, Jaylen Brown? I think I might do that if I'm Phil.
Another new tidbit:
Michael Scotto
@MikeAScotto
Boston Celtics have spoken to the Minnesota Timberwolves about acquiring the 7th pick in the draft, league sources told Basketball Insiders.
So tonights 3rd, 7th + Player?
No fucking way. Has to start with the 3rd pick, Nets 1st next year and then some
I could get with that although my heart will hurt
? Where are you getting 4 picks from?
3 is Jackson
8 would be the Knicks own pick
and third pick would be this mystery lottery pick. You have them adding 4 lottery picks, they would have 3 total picks?
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If the Knicks ended up with Josh Jackson, Malik Monk and Zach Collins from the KP deal and their own #8- plus either a player or a pick in the future, is that enough for a full reboot to begin (i.e. next move is to get Melo out of town)?
? Where are you getting 4 picks from?
3 is Jackson
8 would be the Knicks own pick
and third pick would be this mystery lottery pick. You have them adding 4 lottery picks, they would have 3 total picks?
Note I said "pick in the future." Meaning not in this draft.
Is that enough to begin a full rebuild?
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In comment 13508043 rich in DC said:
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If the Knicks ended up with Josh Jackson, Malik Monk and Zach Collins from the KP deal and their own #8- plus either a player or a pick in the future, is that enough for a full reboot to begin (i.e. next move is to get Melo out of town)?
? Where are you getting 4 picks from?
3 is Jackson
8 would be the Knicks own pick
and third pick would be this mystery lottery pick. You have them adding 4 lottery picks, they would have 3 total picks?
Note I said "pick in the future." Meaning not in this draft.
Rich
You have them with Jackson, Monk and Collins and their own #8. That's 4 players in this draft. Where is this coming from? I re-read it multiple times and it reads as if you have them somehow adding Josh Jackson, Malik Monk, Zach Collins and #8 pick (their own). That's 4 players this year?
Is that enough to begin a full rebuild?
Would depend on the "extra" pick
He's a poor mans KP if I had to describe him. Much more raw as a shooter, but a better rebounder and frame to add weight. He's a shorter KP without the mean streak. I guess Myles turner would be his upside if I had to compare.
You may value Porzingis at a certain level, but I don't think anyone in the league would essentially give 3 top 3 picks up for him (even if you don't think Brown is special, we do like him - plus I'm assuming the Nets will be terrible again).
You don't need to trade him and you shouldn't trade him. I get why you're valuing him at this level. But no one is going to give up what you're looking for.
I still can't believe we're even at this point where Phil is auctioning this guy off. What the fuck is wrong with him.
Kennard would suck. Amazing shooter but can't play a lick of defense
So I guess DSJ is off our board?
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Knicks source on Phil right now: "he's dug in. If he doesn't get exactly what he wants, there will be no (Porzingis) trade."
I still can't believe we're even at this point where Phil is auctioning this guy off. What the fuck is wrong with him.
What do you mean? The sentence implies that Phil is "dug in" on the return, not trading KP.
Still hearing the Celtics have no plans to empty their entire war chest to chase Porzingis.
Mark Murphy ✔@Murf56
Source adds that Celtics are waiting for Jackson to come back to earth.
They're gonna wait a while. Phil hasn't been down to earth since 2003.
You may value Porzingis at a certain level, but I don't think anyone in the league would essentially give 3 top 3 picks up for him (even if you don't think Brown is special, we do like him - plus I'm assuming the Nets will be terrible again).
You don't need to trade him and you shouldn't trade him. I get why you're valuing him at this level. But no one is going to give up what you're looking for.
Ok then why is Boston after him? It's because ainge is aware that he doesn't have a future #1 option or even #2 option on his roster. He didn't think fultz was that so he traded out. KP gives him a chance at that. Premium should be paid to account for that.
Ainge obviously valued the drop off from #1 to #3 as 2 future lottery picks. So why shouldn't KP be valued that at a MINIMUM?
link - ( New Window )
agree 100%. Why do we need to rush to deal KP???
Jackson @ 3, Monk @ 7, and Collins at eight. Plus another pick next year.. That is an interesting proposition. I'm at least hopeful the haul will be significant if traded.
You replace the shooting your missing and get some rim protection. Wondering if we could flip the three for more picks on a trade down, ie. Sacramento for Fox.
I'm also wondering if the Knicks feel like Porz is destined for a life on the injury list.
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all the comments saying, "both Nets picks and Jaylen Brown" as a starting point...it's not happening.
You may value Porzingis at a certain level, but I don't think anyone in the league would essentially give 3 top 3 picks up for him (even if you don't think Brown is special, we do like him - plus I'm assuming the Nets will be terrible again).
You don't need to trade him and you shouldn't trade him. I get why you're valuing him at this level. But no one is going to give up what you're looking for.
Ok then why is Boston after him? It's because ainge is aware that he doesn't have a future #1 option or even #2 option on his roster. He didn't think fultz was that so he traded out. KP gives him a chance at that. Premium should be paid to account for that.
Ainge obviously valued the drop off from #1 to #3 as 2 future lottery picks. So why shouldn't KP be valued that at a MINIMUM?
I'm not arguing that the Celtics or any other team shouldn't value him highly. But that kind of price, I think, is reserved for someone who is already an elite performer. He's not quite there yet, though he's well on his way. You're still paying for potential here, to an extent.
#1 for #3, and a future first rounder (likely top 8)
vs.
Porzingis (the equivalent to number 1) for #3, a future first rounder (likely top 5), Jaylen Brown, and Jae Crowder. That's a big difference.
Again, not saying you shouldn't be looking for that. But just saying it's a big ask for any team. Jae Crowder has a phenomenal contract, that is a good asset to have.
Boston better get Hayward for sure then
Sources: @celtics trying to get No.7 pick from T-Wolves for @nyknicks who have an eye on Lauri Markkanen. #Celticstalk
Jackson @ 3, Monk @ 7, and Collins at eight. Plus another pick next year.. That is an interesting proposition. I'm at least hopeful the haul will be significant if traded.
You replace the shooting your missing and get some rim protection. Wondering if we could flip the three for more picks on a trade down, ie. Sacramento for Fox.
I'm also wondering if the Knicks feel like Porz is destined for a life on the injury list.
Porzingis has missed 26 games over 2 seasons, Anthony Davis played 260 games over his first 4 seasons. Didn't see NO in a rush to move AD...
I'm also wondering if the Knicks feel like Porz is destined for a life on the injury list.
That's not it. As recently as the lottery, Phil was talking about KP and Willy like they were givens. I think KP and his handlers have gotten a bit out of pocket and instead of being the adult, Phil is acting like a bitch.
"At the end of the day", KP is still under the Knicks' control for a long time and the Knicks should be in no hurry to trade him for anything less than an enormous amount.
If that happened the biggest plus of the trade would be gunning for the #1 overall next year and not directly any of the players involved in the trade.
Then draft Josh Jackson, Markannen and DSJ or Frank tonight
And hopefully we pick twice in the top 5 next year and can take two of Doncic, Ayton, Porter Jr. and Bamba
Then draft Josh Jackson, Markannen and DSJ or Frank tonight
And hopefully we pick twice in the top 5 next year and can take two of Doncic, Ayton, Porter Jr. and Bamba
I'd do that. Hard seeing Boston upping the offer that much just cuz Melo is involved though.
But how do they give get #7 if the Knicks are the ones getting Brown and Crowder?
If anything goes down I'll hope for this
Tatum(3) and Frank/Donovan Mitchell(8)
brown crowder, jackson, smith and monk?
it could be 1 hell of a young defensive team but is it enough?
If anything goes down I'll hope for this
Tatum(3) and Frank/Donovan Mitchell(8)
knicks are taking jackson at 3 if trade happens
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want nothing to do with markannen
This day has been dreadful. I wish the Knicks would just announce that they're not trading him at/before the draft.
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I saw some tape of him getting ragdolled by guards going for rebounds. Really turned me off to him. I fear a better Steve Novak and a next potential Dirk.
want nothing to do with markannen
I meant "I fear a better Steve Novak THAN a next potential Dirk.
Crowder would be what, the 2nd or 3rd best player on your team if it traded Porzingis? So don't look down on him too much.
We know how good Porzingis can be. But let's cool it on the 35 and 15 stuff. He averaged 18 and 7. He's still young. We're all just projecting him to be a star. He's not one yet.
You don't want to trade him, we don't want to give up the assets you're looking for to trade for him. So no deal. That's fine. We don't need to make a panic trade. It's essentially 3 top 5 picks, plus another player, that you're asking for. That's quite a bit for anyone. I'd love to see if another player has ever been traded for similar value.
if knicks get, 3 and 7 and crowder and brown..
id go jackson at 3, monk at 7, isaac at 8
monk brown jackson isaac willy is not a bad start to a rebuild...
Source familiar with the talks between Knicks and Celtics told ESPN that New York's demands for Kristaps Porzingis are "ridiculous." Also the source gives the sense that Boston will likely keep its No. 3 pick to draft a player and not trade down again.
Dave McMenamin, ESPN Staff Writer
Source familiar with the talks between Knicks and Celtics told ESPN that New York's demands for Kristaps Porzingis are "ridiculous." Also the source gives the sense that Boston will likely keep its No. 3 pick to draft a player and not trade down again.
Dave McMenamin, ESPN Staff Writer
Sounds like something Ainge would say since he's usually on the other end of the "ridiculous" demands
I'm still shocked at some of this proposals. I really don't understand. And why wouldn't Boston give up 3 or 4 picks for him? Who are they saving these assets for? Good luck waiting for Jaylen Brown to become a go to scorer or all star.
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Boston can keep Crowder and his awesome contract. But #3, next years Brooklyn pick and Brown is NOT too much to ask for a 21 year old with top 10 NBA upside. All the Celtics fans sneering at this trade will be sucking KPs pee pee the first time he goes for 35 and 15. And I'm guessing the remorse will fade while Boston is playing Cleveland in the ECFs and Josh Jackson is languishing on a 10 win Knicks team putting up something like 8 and 4. Jeezus, what is wrong with you guys? Boston fans have no freaking idea how good KP can be, that much is obvious. KP will own that town if he were to go there. And I sure as hell hope he doesn't.
Crowder would be what, the 2nd or 3rd best player on your team if it traded Porzingis? So don't look down on him too much.
We know how good Porzingis can be. But let's cool it on the 35 and 15 stuff. He averaged 18 and 7. He's still young. We're all just projecting him to be a star. He's not one yet.
You don't want to trade him, we don't want to give up the assets you're looking for to trade for him. So no deal. That's fine. We don't need to make a panic trade. It's essentially 3 top 5 picks, plus another player, that you're asking for. That's quite a bit for anyone. I'd love to see if another player has ever been traded for similar value.
It doesn't matter how good Jae Crowder is relative to the rest of the Knicks roster. KP gives you a CHANCE at having a star player. Star players are all that matter in the context of competing in the NBA. Crowder doesn't give you a remote chance of that. Smart doesnt. Brown doesnt. I love Jackson but I dont see how he does either. Nor Markannen. Nor Isaac.
We dump KP we end up with the Celtics roster minus all the future picks. AKA a team that gets wiped by a team full of stars in the playoffs. It may not be Lebron but it could be Giannis or Simmons or Embiid.
I could believe that Ainge is just thinking get #7 because it's a 7 or 8 player draft, and I've got more picks than I want and a ton of players Im not excited about extending. They dont have another #1 this year after 3rd overall. And Minny wants to get better, not get more assets for the future. So this suggests to me maybe just that Ainge is cashing out on Bradley or Smart a year away from FA or getting value for Crowder who I think is out of favor a bit and whose role they want to give to Brown (if he stays).
Reports are #7 for NYK, but I think #7 just fits Aigne's MO.
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Boston can keep Crowder and his awesome contract. But #3, next years Brooklyn pick and Brown is NOT too much to ask for a 21 year old with top 10 NBA upside. All the Celtics fans sneering at this trade will be sucking KPs pee pee the first time he goes for 35 and 15. And I'm guessing the remorse will fade while Boston is playing Cleveland in the ECFs and Josh Jackson is languishing on a 10 win Knicks team putting up something like 8 and 4. Jeezus, what is wrong with you guys? Boston fans have no freaking idea how good KP can be, that much is obvious. KP will own that town if he were to go there. And I sure as hell hope he doesn't.
Crowder would be what, the 2nd or 3rd best player on your team if it traded Porzingis? So don't look down on him too much.
We know how good Porzingis can be. But let's cool it on the 35 and 15 stuff. He averaged 18 and 7. He's still young. We're all just projecting him to be a star. He's not one yet.
You don't want to trade him, we don't want to give up the assets you're looking for to trade for him. So no deal. That's fine. We don't need to make a panic trade. It's essentially 3 top 5 picks, plus another player, that you're asking for. That's quite a bit for anyone. I'd love to see if another player has ever been traded for similar value.
2nd or 3rd best player because the Knicks have very little talent. Crowder is what he is. There is zero additional upside, room for growth. He's a solid player on a team that needs big time talent. Crowder doesn't move the needle. He's a guy who looks good as a role player on a good team. When he's a "main" piece he looks sub-par.
Source familiar with the talks between Knicks and Celtics told ESPN that New York's demands for Kristaps Porzingis are "ridiculous." Also the source gives the sense that Boston will likely keep its No. 3 pick to draft a player and not trade down again.
Dave McMenamin, ESPN Staff Writer
Why are people getting worked up over the back and forth.
Its called posturing for the best deal. Both sides are gambling that the other side is more desperate than they are and give in.
Ainge is used to other teams giving in to his one-sided demands- there has been criticism in the past that what teams not involved in the trade discussions have termed as fair offers get turned down because Ainge wanted more.
Jackson has no experience in this area, and might be overasking- we only know what is reported. However, he probably knows that KP is his one asset that could bring a king's ransom. Thus, it is not necessary to make any deal- he knows that he only needs to act if the deal is one that is amazing.
I am sure we will hear that the talks have broken down, that other teams are discussing options, then the talks will resume- and then Boston will make their pick. If they pick Jackson, the rumors will start again.
We'll see if who is desperate enough to make a move.
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Also, I'm told that the Celtics and Knicks haven't had any sort of progressing talks. They last spoke this morning and haven't revisited.
I fucking hate you, Dan. You're worse than ISIS.
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I fucking hate you, Dan. You're worse than ISIS.
lol
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Also, I'm told that the Celtics and Knicks haven't had any sort of progressing talks. They last spoke this morning and haven't revisited.
everyone is saying knicks and celtics are talking and working towards a deal...never heaed of thiz guy...
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Boston can keep Crowder and his awesome contract. But #3, next years Brooklyn pick and Brown is NOT too much to ask for a 21 year old with top 10 NBA upside. All the Celtics fans sneering at this trade will be sucking KPs pee pee the first time he goes for 35 and 15. And I'm guessing the remorse will fade while Boston is playing Cleveland in the ECFs and Josh Jackson is languishing on a 10 win Knicks team putting up something like 8 and 4. Jeezus, what is wrong with you guys? Boston fans have no freaking idea how good KP can be, that much is obvious. KP will own that town if he were to go there. And I sure as hell hope he doesn't.
Crowder would be what, the 2nd or 3rd best player on your team if it traded Porzingis? So don't look down on him too much.
We know how good Porzingis can be. But let's cool it on the 35 and 15 stuff. He averaged 18 and 7. He's still young. We're all just projecting him to be a star. He's not one yet.
You don't want to trade him, we don't want to give up the assets you're looking for to trade for him. So no deal. That's fine. We don't need to make a panic trade. It's essentially 3 top 5 picks, plus another player, that you're asking for. That's quite a bit for anyone. I'd love to see if another player has ever been traded for similar value.
I'd love to see if another player with KP's upside and skill set was traded on his rookie contract. It simply does not happen. that's why you're seeing people throw around unprecedented trade packages.
The Carmelo-led Knicks are 32-50
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totally different information. I've seen this guy on ESPN, good track record?
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Also, I'm told that the Celtics and Knicks haven't had any sort of progressing talks. They last spoke this morning and haven't revisited.
everyone is saying knicks and celtics are talking and working towards a deal...never heaed of thiz guy...
He's legit. 130,000 followers and Begley retweeted him
You'd take Giannis but only if MILW added?
I fully get that Crowder is nothing special and is what he is. I'm just saying he's good player, even if that doesn't do much good on a bad team. And Crowder is literally the 4th asset you'd be getting in the deal Jackson apparently wants, not he main asset, not to mention he really does have a highly desirable contract around the league. If he's the 4th asset, you've done well in the trade.
With Porzingis, while he does have the potential to be an 1 or 2 option on a championship team, the Knicks are so far from getting to that point, and it will probably not happen at any point with the current regime. So while I wouldn't trade Porzingis, you do have to evaluate whether the relationship is irreparably damaged. And while you may want Phil out, Dolan is a moron. So don't bet on it.
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He did really well at times and they were pretty much weaning him in, he had no plays called for him, and he showed great poise and athleticism. He has an improving shot, including from the 3-point line, and can get to the basket extremely well. He plays several positions and is already a plus defender. And, he's improving in every area. He's a perfect match for Stevens and would be my deal-breaker for anyone who's not Anthony Davis.
You'd take Giannis but only if MILW added?
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NBA reporter for @ESPN /// "Return of the King: LeBron James, the Cleveland Cavaliers and the greatest comeback in NBA history" comes out 4/11"
Talk about overvaluing. I like Brown but to me he's a bigger Jae Crowder. DOn't see any star in him.
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He did really well at times and they were pretty much weaning him in, he had no plays called for him, and he showed great poise and athleticism. He has an improving shot, including from the 3-point line, and can get to the basket extremely well. He plays several positions and is already a plus defender. And, he's improving in every area. He's a perfect match for Stevens and would be my deal-breaker for anyone who's not Anthony Davis.
Talk about overvaluing. I like Brown but to me he's a bigger Jae Crowder. DOn't see any star in him.
2nd pick this year
Deng
Black
Ingram
What the hell are you even talking about. Are you kidding me?
With Porzingis, while he does have the potential to be an 1 or 2 option on a championship team, the Knicks are so far from getting to that point, and it will probably not happen at any point with the current regime. So while I wouldn't trade Porzingis, you do have to evaluate whether the relationship is irreparably damaged. And while you may want Phil out, Dolan is a moron. So don't bet on it.
Phil talks about trading KP if it is what's best for the team, but his ego driving trades is not best for the team, and his personal timeline to win a championship is not what's best for the team. Fact is that a guy like KP probably doesnt get into his "title window" best case for another 4 years. If that's not Phil's time frame, he needs to retire, because there is almost no path to getting a title in NY in the next 4 years. LeBron (wherever he is) and GSW will be murderous for at least 2 more seasons, conservatively. They may not win 2-3 more titles, but they're so good that the KNICKS have no chance of catching them in 2-3 years.
This is what I dont get about the modern NBA. A guy like Ainge gets it -- he sees that his team isnt really title competitive. Yet most teams are just plugging along looking to get marginally better. Lets get Dwight Howard! Lets trade for Aldridge! I guess if you need to sell tickets, so be it, it's a business. But otherwise any teams that is forced to go for it (e.g. LAC) should be thinking long term. If you have a Porzingis and you cant wait for him to develop, you're in the wrong business and are misreading the league.
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In comment 13508319 Bill L said:
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He did really well at times and they were pretty much weaning him in, he had no plays called for him, and he showed great poise and athleticism. He has an improving shot, including from the 3-point line, and can get to the basket extremely well. He plays several positions and is already a plus defender. And, he's improving in every area. He's a perfect match for Stevens and would be my deal-breaker for anyone who's not Anthony Davis.
Talk about overvaluing. I like Brown but to me he's a bigger Jae Crowder. DOn't see any star in him.
I definitely do. I think nearly I saw every game he played in last year...well, maybe not some of the west coast night games...and for his age and the trajectory from first game to last, yup, I definitely do.
Must come as a surprise to you as to why Ainge wants Tatum or KP so bad then.
I wouldn't even deal KP to boston if they offered too much. But Phil is going full heel...so...yeah.
"Gut says Phil doesn't deal him but you never know. 60/40 he stays, no promises though"
(My question was "promise me Phil doesn't trade KP")
My guy said Frenchy or Monk are the "overwhelming" favorites to be the pick (this was last night). He said most of the writers are hearing Frenchy but some think Monk is the guy Phil covets.
if boston takes tatum rest easy
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This is what I dont get about the modern NBA. A guy like Ainge gets it -- he sees that his team isnt really title competitive. Yet most teams are just plugging along looking to get marginally better. Lets get Dwight Howard! Lets trade for Aldridge! I guess if you need to sell tickets, so be it, it's a business. But otherwise any teams that is forced to go for it (e.g. LAC) should be thinking long term. If you have a Porzingis and you cant wait for him to develop, you're in the wrong business and are misreading the league.
Ainge is currently benefitting from an overzealous Brooklyn owner who gave up their future to win a title and stick it to the Knicks. How did that pan out for Brooklyn? All 5 starters and the coach have departed.
Difference is, Boston has more assists and can afford to make a big trade to try and get over the hump. Huge difference in trading for a 21 year old kid vs 2 aging veterans
The guy I spoke to thought Monk checked off a bunch of Phil's boxes and still would allow him to be a bit "outside the box". He sort of hinted he thought Monk would be the guy but then said "everyone seems it's the French kid". Monk would not surprise me at all.
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of how quiet the Knicks/Monk connection has been. He thinks it's a little "too quiet" and suspects he's the guy. I hope the Mavs trade up and remove all doubt.
The guy I spoke to thought Monk checked off a bunch of Phil's boxes and still would allow him to be a bit "outside the box". He sort of hinted he thought Monk would be the guy but then said "everyone seems it's the French kid". Monk would not surprise me at all.
i cant remember was there a lot of noise around knicks and kp?
What does Frenchie get Phil, assuming he REALLY pans out (say, a combo guard version of Batum?). Is that guy good enough to be the #2 on a title team? He isnt Pippen or even Rodman.
Now what about Monk? Well if he can play 1 he can defend his position, and he's got 20+ point potential. Like KP he has unlimited range, meaning you're now adding feet to the basketball court -- your 1 and 4 can stand shoot from the BQE and suddenly your 2, 3, 5 have a ton of court to mess with. Lee can knock them down and there is hope that a healthy Lance can defend and corner 3 it. It's a plan even in the near term.
Monk to the Suns......
What's complicating this is that KP actions are drawing attention to Phil's failures, and KP isnt buying into the zen mind games. Worked on Kobe and MJ (I guess, who knows). But those were talented teams and Phil was coaching, in his physical prime. Now he's a sleepy old man and team executive, who is obviously meddling with coaching. Phil feels entitled to respect based on his coaching record and his title, but it's a what have you dont for me lately world. Nothing he's done says to KP "trust me, I got this".
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Monk to the Suns......
4 is high for monk and over jackson or tatum? both would be great fits with the suns
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In comment 13508401 nygiants16 said:
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Monk to the Suns......
4 is high for monk and over jackson or tatum? both would be great fits with the suns
I was only joking. Honestly though at this point I am expecting the worst which would be that Monk is the guy, has been told he's the guy, and then Minnesota trades out and someone else grabs him at 7.
Well, the fair comp is:
Jackson, Monk/Smith, Brown, Willy, BK #1, next year's #1 vs
KP, Monk/Smith, Willy, next year's #1.
Figure the top option gives us a better chance for a top 3 pick... maybe. KP is better than Jackson and Brown, but the two of them combined could give you a working lineup next season.
Ultimately I think it comes down to how you perceive that gap between KP and Jackson (I think it's huge) and whether you're just assuming that BK pick is going to be a great pick. Who knows. Could end up #5. Could end up #2 in a 1 player draft. Remember when Wiggins was the next LeBron 12 months out of his draft? I do.
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but I can't believe there are people on this thread that wouldn't do 3, the Nets pick next year and Brown for him. Get rid of Melo. Tank one more year. Get two top 5 picks next year to add to Fox or Jackson + Smith / Tatum / Monk + Brown + Willy. That's actually a team. What we have now plus the 8th pick isn't a team.
Well, the fair comp is:
Jackson, Monk/Smith, Brown, Willy, BK #1, next year's #1 vs
KP, Monk/Smith, Willy, next year's #1.
Figure the top option gives us a better chance for a top 3 pick... maybe. KP is better than Jackson and Brown, but the two of them combined could give you a working lineup next season.
Ultimately I think it comes down to how you perceive that gap between KP and Jackson (I think it's huge) and whether you're just assuming that BK pick is going to be a great pick. Who knows. Could end up #5. Could end up #2 in a 1 player draft. Remember when Wiggins was the next LeBron 12 months out of his draft? I do.
Yeah i'm more thinking I don't see the Knicks sucking enough with Porzingis to have a top 5 pick. Without him I think yes. So we get more bullets and a larger chance to suck. Also if we keep Porzingis I think there is a much higher chance we keep Melo which again increases our chances of not completely sucking which I don't want.
Can you really see the Nets not finishing in the bottom 3 in record as well? Without Lopez they are just a steaming pile of shit.
That isn't the point. The point is we are going to need a lot more than Porzingis to win. And he's not some money guy. He's all about winning. He is out of here if we don't put real players around him. So you are basically saying we have to strike gold at #8 or risk trading his mentor, being bad next year and alienating him further. We might not want to roll the dice on being bad and we do the same thing that we did this year. I think he will be a top 10-15 player in this league. I'm just worried about losing him. It's already going south. If the relationship deteriorates so will our leverage.
Don't Want- Collins, Markannen, Frank N
Assuming other guys don't drop.
I just think going with 2 new lottery tickets sets you back to square one. Cavs wouldnt be anywhere now with Kyrie-Wiggins-Bennett. Sixers got Okafor, Embiid who may never last a season, and Noel with their first 3 #1s of the rebuild.
Put KP in the bank, try to add another star. Vs. the full on scratch off model of taking a tranche of picks from BOS.
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Is that they can be anything, including a bust. Just because you collect high draft picks doesn't mean they're going to be great or even good players. Porzingis would go #1 overall this year. He's the same age as the #1 consensus pick, and we already know he can play. Just in the past two drafts we've seen the "can't miss" lottery picks be misses.
That isn't the point. The point is we are going to need a lot more than Porzingis to win. And he's not some money guy. He's all about winning. He is out of here if we don't put real players around him. So you are basically saying we have to strike gold at #8 or risk trading his mentor, being bad next year and alienating him further. We might not want to roll the dice on being bad and we do the same thing that we did this year. I think he will be a top 10-15 player in this league. I'm just worried about losing him. It's already going south. If the relationship deteriorates so will our leverage.
If he leaves, it's years from now. You're right that they would need more to win, but you can start that process by deciding to stop the nonsense and begin operating like a franchise that isn't dysfunctional and doesn't scare players away. This would also increase the chance that he doesn't want to run away screaming in terror the second he's off contract.