How much of that was by design? We've already heard McAdoo say, before and after the season, that he played to the defense and special teams. They probably could have scored more points but it may have come at a cost in the win column.
The 1990 team scored fewer points than four teams that finished 6-10 or worse.
1) OL's inability to pass protect
2) Jenning's overuse and inability to take advantage of holes created by the OL
3) Cruz being a shell of his former self, leaving no legit 2nd outside WR threat
4) One of if not the worst TE corps in the league (lack of skills and / or experience)
5) HC and OC's inability to come up with formations and play calling to offset lack of talent against Cover 2
6) Eli having at least somewhat of an off year
2), 3) and 4) have been addressed this off season. Not sure about 1). The additional WR and TE talent should address 5). Hopefully 6) was a "one off".
With OBJ making plays few others can make . The one vs the
Cowboys comes to mind . One dimensional offense that
couldn't throw deep . That won't cut it this year the
schedule is brutal . Pray for health first and foremost .
They were that bad and Mac's conservatism was a product of not a determining or causative factor.
I wathed a winless Brown team play four in the box, deep cover two and linebacker's five yards off and we couln't run them out of it.
That's pretty bad.
They were that bad and Mac's conservatism was a product of not a determining or causative factor.
I wathed a winless Brown team play four in the box, deep cover two and linebacker's five yards off and we couln't run them out of it.
That's pretty bad.
Last years offense was wretched. Particularly so when you consider we have one of the league's best offensive players. No aspect of McAdoo's rookie coaching campaign concerns me more than his extraordinarily bad offense. As far as I could see, McAdoo didn't adjust the offense once throughout the entire season. He didn't seem to have any game plans tailored to exploit another team and he didn't seem to make any in-game adjustments. The Giants offense was a completely and historically bad offense where almost every single player regressed from their previous season.
In Bens defense, there was a huge lack of talent at TE and RB. But, still, I saw zero creativity in addressing these obvious deficiencies in skill.
It's too soon to judge McAdoo as a head coach, but he seems to me to be an organization guy. He's good with the public relations and the media, he kept the team focused and together (unlike, say, the Jets). The job doesn't seem to be too big for Ben. But he doesn't really seem to be an Xs and Os guy. Belichick is a notorious and lifelong film guy. I remember how John Fox was written up once as a guy with a motivational quote for every occasion. Parcells was a master motivator and a master manipulator. Not sure what Bens thing will be, but if it's not game planing and play calling he better find someone who can do these things.
What a shame to have wasted that defense last season.
Last years offense was wretched. Particularly so when you consider we have one of the league's best offensive players. No aspect of McAdoo's rookie coaching campaign concerns me more than his extraordinarily bad offense. As far as I could see, McAdoo didn't adjust the offense once throughout the entire season. He didn't seem to have any game plans tailored to exploit another team and he didn't seem to make any in-game adjustments. The Giants offense was a completely and historically bad offense where almost every single player regressed from their previous season.
In Bens defense, there was a huge lack of talent at TE and RB. But, still, I saw zero creativity in addressing these obvious deficiencies in skill.
It's too soon to judge McAdoo as a head coach, but he seems to me to be an organization guy. He's good with the public relations and the media, he kept the team focused and together (unlike, say, the Jets). The job doesn't seem to be too big for Ben. But he doesn't really seem to be an Xs and Os guy. Belichick is a notorious and lifelong film guy. I remember how John Fox was written up once as a guy with a motivational quote for every occasion. Parcells was a master motivator and a master manipulator. Not sure what Bens thing will be, but if it's not game planing and play calling he better find someone who can do these things.
What a shame to have wasted that defense last season.
I think this is a complete misread. To my eyes McAdoo milked every possible win out of that team. He played to his strengths... It was actually write like what Belichick would do.
McAdoo is the head coach, not the offensive coordinator. His job is to manage the entire team and he did that masterfully in 2016.
was not addressing the #2 WR position. There were some relatively cheap alternatives out there and guys that performed well for other teams as FAs and were discussed here. We just didn't pull the trigger and relied on Cruz. I was an advocate for cutting Cruz loose last offseason or at least bring in a proven commodity. I am glad we addressed that this season but the rest of the O is pretty much the same.
Hopefully health and maturity from some of the OL will bring this O to a new level. I think Marshall will have a big impact so teams will have to worry about more than just OBJ.
Last years offense was wretched. Particularly so when you consider we have one of the league's best offensive players. No aspect of McAdoo's rookie coaching campaign concerns me more than his extraordinarily bad offense. As far as I could see, McAdoo didn't adjust the offense once throughout the entire season. He didn't seem to have any game plans tailored to exploit another team and he didn't seem to make any in-game adjustments. The Giants offense was a completely and historically bad offense where almost every single player regressed from their previous season.
In Bens defense, there was a huge lack of talent at TE and RB. But, still, I saw zero creativity in addressing these obvious deficiencies in skill.
It's too soon to judge McAdoo as a head coach, but he seems to me to be an organization guy. He's good with the public relations and the media, he kept the team focused and together (unlike, say, the Jets). The job doesn't seem to be too big for Ben. But he doesn't really seem to be an Xs and Os guy. Belichick is a notorious and lifelong film guy. I remember how John Fox was written up once as a guy with a motivational quote for every occasion. Parcells was a master motivator and a master manipulator. Not sure what Bens thing will be, but if it's not game planing and play calling he better find someone who can do these things.
What a shame to have wasted that defense last season.
I'll take 11-5 with a talentless offense every time. The lack of O production is the only concern with Mac. And it's easily explained by personnel and gameplanning. No reason to overreact when we're winning because of his team strategy. And he did display creativity in bursts. Our O looked flawless in the opening of the Bengals game. He had Shep take a carry out of tghe backfield. He had OBJ back to pass. He took a couple risks. He didn't bank our season on our O needing to score at any costs though and that seemed like the right idea. Losing our best DE and CB were the main reasons we didn't make a championship run.
Our OL play was not very good, but IMO Jennings killed us last year
There were plenty of examples where we had plays blocked up reasonably well, with wins or at least stalemates across the line, and Jennings missed cutback lanes, ran into blocks, stopped his forward progress short of the line or was unable to break tackles. In other cases, a faster or shiftier player likely would have been able to hit creases that Jennings either missed or physically could not get to. It says something that a 5th round rookie who missed substantially all of his first offseason program was a tangible improvement in virtually every situation once we began to play him with regularity.
This was a case of hanging on to a middling player about a year too long.
If you look around the league, the best teams always have their perennial superstars (and those who break out into superstars), but in my view the biggest difference is made by the 'core' guys in the middle of rosters who overachieve their roles. Banks calls this "going beyond the X's and O's". With Jennings, we were getting a guy who knew his responsibilities in every situation, could block and was a good citizen, but wasn't a player who had potential to make game-changing plays. Offensively, we didn't have enough of those types of players, and our numbers suffered for it.
The analysis of last year's offensive woes is fine...
I think McAdoo coached the team to its strength last year, which was clearly the defense. We were very conservative offensively. His strategy was the correct one.
The offense has to be better this year, no doubt - we can't contend for a championship if it doesn't (unless the defense is even better) - but I think it will be. Marshall/Engram should really bolster the pass game and take some heat off Odell. I also think Jennings will be a major addition by subtraction.
Other than Eli and OBJ were probably no better than the 49'ers. Why is this stat news? Giants know they needed to reload the offense and I think we now have some better talent but still some weak points. Will see how it comes together.
Was 11-5 in his first season, that is the bar, not yards, not what players regressed, the team progressed and the offense was part of the overall strategy. He played a very conservative game simply because it allowed the team the best chance due to the way the defense played. When we played against top teams with good balance both on offense and defense, the team was then exposed.
The team made the moves needed, what they saw were needed, and we now have added weapons. I think this offense will show that this worry over McAdoo was pure and simply ridiculous. he showed as offensive coordinator that he can coach an effective offense.
Unlike other coaches who specialize in either offense or defense, he showed an ability to support the defense, unlike coaches like the Ryan's, both of them, Buddy and Rex.
I think McAdoo should be judged by his record and will prove this season all this crap was just that. he did not have the weapons. Perkins showed that when you have a decent back, they can make yardage, we added Gallman, a guy who looks like a perfect compliment, we get back Vereen, we added Engram and Ellison, and we have second year man Adams now at tight end, all of these guys will be an improvement over Tye. We added Marshall at wideout, we have second year man Shepherd coming back. We have the best wideout in the game coming back. We have a 2 time winning Super Bowl MVP who has beaten the great Tom Brady twice in the big game, who is not even in the top 100 players, yet Prescott is in the top 20. We will have an improved offensive line, continuity will kick in to help this season.
Plenty of motivation, plenty to prove, and the right guy at the helm, a guy who is a gym rat, a hard worker, the perfect successor to Coughlin. The Giants are ready for another Super Bowl push and all the worry about this offense will be put to bed. We need 1 thing only, health.
Yeah Odell fucked it up in the playoffs and 10 did not but 10 did not play well this season. Does anyone remember how incompetent he was in that second Dallas game? We need 10 to play at a very high level and not have the D bail us out. You have to believe he will do it but that's what has to happen.
I've personally never seen an offense so basic at the NFL level.
Spags did the same thing with the D in 2015. He had no choice but to drop 7 and keep everything in front. McAdoo did the equivalent on O. I also think Eli was hurt which further played into it.
had over a 100 yards rushing that game. Jennings had a mediocre game but others picked up the slack to produce a decent total for the team...
Are you sure? I thought we rushed for like 80 yards that game. To your point though, I think in looking back we had a lot of penalties and dropped balls that day on offense. The run game wasn't stellar but it wasn't as awful as normal for 2016.
on play selection, sully in general, types of run schemes and play actions, OL performance in both regards, receivers - can we deliver the ball to them quickly enough.
that had a huge bearing on it,they hoped shepard could play outside initially and that cruz would return to form in the slot during training camp they realised shepard needed to play the slot and that cruz would have to play the outside but that plan was never viable. i really wanted sanu to give them the big outside receiver they needed last year that penny dropped and they got marshall this year a year too late that team was a few players away from the superbowl on offence in my view and barring a collapse to rodgers was good enough defensively all year
the lack of a blocking TE and FB due to injuries during training camp and preseason and the failure to address those areas is equally divided between macadoo and reese lets not forget the coach cant sign players alone the gm needs to be involved too did macadoo raise that with reese and get told no cap space we will maybe never know?
fluker,bisnowaty,wheeler and dunker are all upgrades on the OL sure not high picks or big names but neither was that 2007 line that added ohara to a banged up group and a few late draft choices and that worked out pretty well!
bbi was in panic mode about that line and they turned out great no guarantee this current line duplicates that level of improvement but its not impossible. they managed to improve in a poor year for OL candidates in a league desperate to improve the state of OL league wide and didnt overpay for some of the washed up OL guys that were outthere to be had.
with all the weapons this team has it will be about maximising the diversity they have now to get mismatches.with ellison and possibly a fullback and even a slightly better OL they should improve running the ball if they can lineup and run the ball at will they catch the defence in two minds about how they cover them and that will leave the door open that wasnt there last year they were too predictable and defences lap that up. its the constant lineup/strategy changes in new england that makes them hard to beat not the personell so much
with all the weapons this team has now engram,marshall a more seasoned shepard,adams and perkins,vereen back,adding gallman,hopefully lacrosse can add to the options at TE as well there is alot to be optimistic about
the defence too can improve if tomlinson gives them more push inside,goodson and thompson can add to an already rock solid defence but CB is still a worry you are an injury or 4 WR set away from trouble if the back end of the secondry needs to play too often but with the cap its just a fact of life in todays game you cant do everything you would like
The WHOLE offense took turns screwing up....be it a fumble, interception, penalty, dropped pass, poor execution, etc., and the fact that it happened during critical times of a drive, was enough to drive you crazy....
And I do believe Mac throttled the offense, when they had the lead, and he expected the defense to protect that lead...
RE: The analysis of last year's offensive woes is fine...
than the 2014-2015 offenses did combined--other than Beckham's other-worldly performances of course.
Giants ran the ball down the stretch of SOME games last year more than they did in 2014-2015. Giants WON games last year more than they did in 14-15. Shepard showed long term staying power in the slot. Eli found ways to win games last year rather than lose games like week 1 dallas 2015. Flowers took baby steps and now has a better off-season under his belt. Hart has another year under his belt.
But if you read BBI and every single newspaper in circulation you'd think the offense took a major steps backward last year. I couldn't disagree more.
2014-2015 was fools gold. A mirage. Last year the offense struggled but I think some, not a lot, but some of it can be attributed to tighter games and tighter game plans, to at least some extent.
The offense will be even better in 2017. Forget 2014-15. That shit period is long behind us.
is so laughable. Can we address the obvious? There are FOUR new players playing high profile positions on this offense. The guys they replaced are all but out of football with Cruz being the exception and he was woefully out of position last year.
The TEs weren't bad. They were historically bad.
The RBs weren't bad. They were historically bad.
The 2nd and 4th WRs were bad.
McAdoo is a concern yet the team won as many games in 2016 as it did combined in 2014-2015. That is just a gross exaggeration of play-calling. The same guy that held the offense together all of sudden forgot how to call a game, BUT, he held the entire team together! That's just nonsense. This offense played to its capability last year. It will play to it's capability in 2017.
The playcalling and "McAdoo question" is last on my list of worries. I'm more concerned or curious with McAdoo's overall stamp on the team, long term. And injuries.
[quotel take 11-5 with a talentless offense every time. The lack of O production is the only concern with Mac. And it's easily explained by personnel and gameplanning. No reason to overreact when we're winning because of his team strategy. And he did display creativity in bursts. Our O looked flawless in the opening of the Bengals game. He had Shep take a carry out of tghe backfield. He had OBJ back to pass. He took a couple risks. He didn't bank our season on our O needing to score at any costs though and that seemed like the right idea. Losing our best DE and CB were the main reasons we didn't make a championship run.[/quote]
That's such a cohesive arguement I think it trumps mine.
With reservations: "leadership" and the ability therein to delegate authority is not about holding on to the clipboard; and he had to give permission to the Party goers to skip the mandated flight (with his teammates) to New York.
It's presumptious to think my opinion matters to anyone but me, but I'll have an open mind this year but if this offense isn't cohesive, varied and effective I'll be the first to condemn him.
Get rid of the damn clipboard....You can't manage a company if you're in charge of the office supply room.
watch weeks 1-3 and then watch games in december. The offense went from explosive to shaky once Vereen went down, JEnnings went from bad to worse and the TEs went downhill. Cruz may or may not have slowed down as the season progressed but things basically ground to a halt once the running game went from bad to worse. Then it slowly found its sea legs but the passing game was now taking on water with no blocking or receiving threat outside of BEckham and Shepard. Defenses figured things out.
IT won't be as easy for opposing defenses in 2017. I don't even love Vereen but he was the best RB on the team last year. Perkins wasn't ready until November. The RBs should be a lot better. The WRs should be a lot better. The TEs should be a lot better. Eli will be a lot better as a result.
about having arguably the worst offense in football last year. For me, it all comes back to the offensive line and it hasn't improved much over the offseason. Marshall, Engram, Perkins, and Ellison all have me excited but if the line can't block we aren't Super Bowl contenders. We just aren't. If they somehow can take a huge step forward, we are. It's as simple as that.
watch weeks 1-3 and then watch games in december. The offense went from explosive to shaky once Vereen went down, JEnnings went from bad to worse and the TEs went downhill. Cruz may or may not have slowed down as the season progressed but things basically ground to a halt once the running game went from bad to worse. Then it slowly found its sea legs but the passing game was now taking on water with no blocking or receiving threat outside of BEckham and Shepard. Defenses figured things out.
IT won't be as easy for opposing defenses in 2017. I don't even love Vereen but he was the best RB on the team last year. Perkins wasn't ready until November. The RBs should be a lot better. The WRs should be a lot better. The TEs should be a lot better. Eli will be a lot better as a result.
Vereen seems to be a completely forgotten man but I agree with you, I think he's a bigger part of the offense than people realize. He's as good a receiving back as you'll find and we simply didn't have anyone to fill his role when we lost him. He's a great safety valve for Eli and should help improve our 3rd down conversion %.
RE: RE: The analysis of last year's offensive woes is fine...
Get so excited about a free agent backup TE who may or may not be a decent blocking FB and an UDFA rookie FB who probably won't get more than one carry every 4 games.
Last years offense was wretched. Particularly so when you consider we have one of the league's best offensive players. No aspect of McAdoo's rookie coaching campaign concerns me more than his extraordinarily bad offense. As far as I could see, McAdoo didn't adjust the offense once throughout the entire season. He didn't seem to have any game plans tailored to exploit another team and he didn't seem to make any in-game adjustments. The Giants offense was a completely and historically bad offense where almost every single player regressed from their previous season.
In Bens defense, there was a huge lack of talent at TE and RB. But, still, I saw zero creativity in addressing these obvious deficiencies in skill.
It's too soon to judge McAdoo as a head coach, but he seems to me to be an organization guy. He's good with the public relations and the media, he kept the team focused and together (unlike, say, the Jets). The job doesn't seem to be too big for Ben. But he doesn't really seem to be an Xs and Os guy. Belichick is a notorious and lifelong film guy. I remember how John Fox was written up once as a guy with a motivational quote for every occasion. Parcells was a master motivator and a master manipulator. Not sure what Bens thing will be, but if it's not game planing and play calling he better find someone who can do these things.
What a shame to have wasted that defense last season.
I think this is a complete misread. To my eyes McAdoo milked every possible win out of that team. He played to his strengths... It was actually write like what Belichick would do.
McAdoo is the head coach, not the offensive coordinator. His job is to manage the entire team and he did that masterfully in 2016.
Except he was the OC in e every way that matters. Yes Eli has a ton of felxability but when you are in 11 all time there was only so much he can do. The guy calls the plays and installed the offense. Calling Sully the OC is lip service
McAdoo hasn't shown me much as a play caller. To be fair it's not all his fault w some of last years roster deficiencies but OBJ bailed this team since the day he stepped on the field. What does her have to do w him really?
And since he didn't do anything w the D saying he managed the entire team is a misread imo. Do you think he did one thing to manage due D. Help Spags game plan?? He Soags. Coach then guys. Gotta get my sandwich board ready.
Nice guy. Handled the HC job well. By doing as little as possible. Bill B he ain't.
RE: I'm as optimistic as anyone but I don't remember any other fanbase
Get so excited about a free agent backup TE who may or may not be a decent blocking FB and an UDFA rookie FB who probably won't get more than one carry every 4 games.
But I can't wait for camp to start either.
When you don't have a TE who can block worth a damn, and you don't have a legit FB who can block, either, why wouldn't you be excited to bring in a UFA TE whose forte' is his blocking, in addition to a FB who's known for his blocking, too?
With Ellison, it's not "may or may not." He's already a proven blocker. With Smith, whom I believe will win the FB job in camp, it's not how many carries he gets (how many carries did Hedgecock or Hynoski get?), it's how well he paves the way for our RBs, especially in short-yardage and goal-line situations.
I think McAdoo will be a good field general / organization man. That's what he showed us last year. By no means do I discount his leadership ability. Probably harder to find a good leader / HC than it is to find a good Xs and Os coordinator. Lots of solid Xs and Os guys flame out as HCs (Norv Turner comes to mind).
But I am concerned about the apparent lack of Xs and Os on the offensive side of the ball last season. Even going back to his work as an O-co, it's hard to tell what kind of difference McAdoo has made on the offense because OBJ came on the scene at the same time as Big Balls Ben. I guess my concern is that Sullivan isn't up to par game planning and breaking down film and I'm not sure McAdoo can help him much as that may not be his strength to begin with and running the entire team doesn't give him the time. Anyway, we shall see.
That's exactly how I see BM.
Now - I didn't want him as OC, didn't want him as HC and am starting to warm up to him, but from my seat he's done very little. I am also concerned that there is a tiff with he and Beckham behind the scenes. Big year for him.
The 1990 team scored fewer points than four teams that finished 6-10 or worse.
1) OL's inability to pass protect
2) Jenning's overuse and inability to take advantage of holes created by the OL
3) Cruz being a shell of his former self, leaving no legit 2nd outside WR threat
4) One of if not the worst TE corps in the league (lack of skills and / or experience)
5) HC and OC's inability to come up with formations and play calling to offset lack of talent against Cover 2
6) Eli having at least somewhat of an off year
2), 3) and 4) have been addressed this off season. Not sure about 1). The additional WR and TE talent should address 5). Hopefully 6) was a "one off".
Cowboys comes to mind . One dimensional offense that
couldn't throw deep . That won't cut it this year the
schedule is brutal . Pray for health first and foremost .
I wathed a winless Brown team play four in the box, deep cover two and linebacker's five yards off and we couln't run them out of it.
That's pretty bad.
I wathed a winless Brown team play four in the box, deep cover two and linebacker's five yards off and we couln't run them out of it.
That's pretty bad.
This is true. Sad, but true.
In Bens defense, there was a huge lack of talent at TE and RB. But, still, I saw zero creativity in addressing these obvious deficiencies in skill.
It's too soon to judge McAdoo as a head coach, but he seems to me to be an organization guy. He's good with the public relations and the media, he kept the team focused and together (unlike, say, the Jets). The job doesn't seem to be too big for Ben. But he doesn't really seem to be an Xs and Os guy. Belichick is a notorious and lifelong film guy. I remember how John Fox was written up once as a guy with a motivational quote for every occasion. Parcells was a master motivator and a master manipulator. Not sure what Bens thing will be, but if it's not game planing and play calling he better find someone who can do these things.
What a shame to have wasted that defense last season.
reason #3 - a washed up slot receiver starting outside
resulted in a very predictable offense which put tremendous pressure on the inexperienced OL
In Bens defense, there was a huge lack of talent at TE and RB. But, still, I saw zero creativity in addressing these obvious deficiencies in skill.
It's too soon to judge McAdoo as a head coach, but he seems to me to be an organization guy. He's good with the public relations and the media, he kept the team focused and together (unlike, say, the Jets). The job doesn't seem to be too big for Ben. But he doesn't really seem to be an Xs and Os guy. Belichick is a notorious and lifelong film guy. I remember how John Fox was written up once as a guy with a motivational quote for every occasion. Parcells was a master motivator and a master manipulator. Not sure what Bens thing will be, but if it's not game planing and play calling he better find someone who can do these things.
What a shame to have wasted that defense last season.
I think this is a complete misread. To my eyes McAdoo milked every possible win out of that team. He played to his strengths... It was actually write like what Belichick would do.
McAdoo is the head coach, not the offensive coordinator. His job is to manage the entire team and he did that masterfully in 2016.
Hopefully health and maturity from some of the OL will bring this O to a new level. I think Marshall will have a big impact so teams will have to worry about more than just OBJ.
In Bens defense, there was a huge lack of talent at TE and RB. But, still, I saw zero creativity in addressing these obvious deficiencies in skill.
It's too soon to judge McAdoo as a head coach, but he seems to me to be an organization guy. He's good with the public relations and the media, he kept the team focused and together (unlike, say, the Jets). The job doesn't seem to be too big for Ben. But he doesn't really seem to be an Xs and Os guy. Belichick is a notorious and lifelong film guy. I remember how John Fox was written up once as a guy with a motivational quote for every occasion. Parcells was a master motivator and a master manipulator. Not sure what Bens thing will be, but if it's not game planing and play calling he better find someone who can do these things.
What a shame to have wasted that defense last season.
I'll take 11-5 with a talentless offense every time. The lack of O production is the only concern with Mac. And it's easily explained by personnel and gameplanning. No reason to overreact when we're winning because of his team strategy. And he did display creativity in bursts. Our O looked flawless in the opening of the Bengals game. He had Shep take a carry out of tghe backfield. He had OBJ back to pass. He took a couple risks. He didn't bank our season on our O needing to score at any costs though and that seemed like the right idea. Losing our best DE and CB were the main reasons we didn't make a championship run.
This was a case of hanging on to a middling player about a year too long.
If you look around the league, the best teams always have their perennial superstars (and those who break out into superstars), but in my view the biggest difference is made by the 'core' guys in the middle of rosters who overachieve their roles. Banks calls this "going beyond the X's and O's". With Jennings, we were getting a guy who knew his responsibilities in every situation, could block and was a good citizen, but wasn't a player who had potential to make game-changing plays. Offensively, we didn't have enough of those types of players, and our numbers suffered for it.
The offense has to be better this year, no doubt - we can't contend for a championship if it doesn't (unless the defense is even better) - but I think it will be. Marshall/Engram should really bolster the pass game and take some heat off Odell. I also think Jennings will be a major addition by subtraction.
Outside of some nice moments from Eli, OBJ & Shep, shit was gross.
I am actually very excited to see what Mac can do with multiple playmakers on both sides of the ball for the first time in his coaching career.
...we have a vast new infusion of talent along the offensive line, including (but not limited to):
D.J. Fluker
Adam Bisnowaty
Chad Wheeler
Michael Bowie
And don't forget Ereck Flowers and his weight loss and re-commitment to the game of football.
The sky's the limit for this unit.
huuuuuuuuge upgrades from last year's personnel
amazing we won 11 games.
we should be a juggernaut this season barring injuries
The team made the moves needed, what they saw were needed, and we now have added weapons. I think this offense will show that this worry over McAdoo was pure and simply ridiculous. he showed as offensive coordinator that he can coach an effective offense.
Unlike other coaches who specialize in either offense or defense, he showed an ability to support the defense, unlike coaches like the Ryan's, both of them, Buddy and Rex.
I think McAdoo should be judged by his record and will prove this season all this crap was just that. he did not have the weapons. Perkins showed that when you have a decent back, they can make yardage, we added Gallman, a guy who looks like a perfect compliment, we get back Vereen, we added Engram and Ellison, and we have second year man Adams now at tight end, all of these guys will be an improvement over Tye. We added Marshall at wideout, we have second year man Shepherd coming back. We have the best wideout in the game coming back. We have a 2 time winning Super Bowl MVP who has beaten the great Tom Brady twice in the big game, who is not even in the top 100 players, yet Prescott is in the top 20. We will have an improved offensive line, continuity will kick in to help this season.
Plenty of motivation, plenty to prove, and the right guy at the helm, a guy who is a gym rat, a hard worker, the perfect successor to Coughlin. The Giants are ready for another Super Bowl push and all the worry about this offense will be put to bed. We need 1 thing only, health.
Yeah Odell fucked it up in the playoffs and 10 did not but 10 did not play well this season. Does anyone remember how incompetent he was in that second Dallas game? We need 10 to play at a very high level and not have the D bail us out. You have to believe he will do it but that's what has to happen.
Spags did the same thing with the D in 2015. He had no choice but to drop 7 and keep everything in front. McAdoo did the equivalent on O. I also think Eli was hurt which further played into it.
Are you sure? I thought we rushed for like 80 yards that game. To your point though, I think in looking back we had a lot of penalties and dropped balls that day on offense. The run game wasn't stellar but it wasn't as awful as normal for 2016.
I don't think it's that confounding.
It was actually the defense that had the biggest impact on the offense.
the lack of a blocking TE and FB due to injuries during training camp and preseason and the failure to address those areas is equally divided between macadoo and reese lets not forget the coach cant sign players alone the gm needs to be involved too did macadoo raise that with reese and get told no cap space we will maybe never know?
fluker,bisnowaty,wheeler and dunker are all upgrades on the OL sure not high picks or big names but neither was that 2007 line that added ohara to a banged up group and a few late draft choices and that worked out pretty well!
bbi was in panic mode about that line and they turned out great no guarantee this current line duplicates that level of improvement but its not impossible. they managed to improve in a poor year for OL candidates in a league desperate to improve the state of OL league wide and didnt overpay for some of the washed up OL guys that were outthere to be had.
with all the weapons this team has it will be about maximising the diversity they have now to get mismatches.with ellison and possibly a fullback and even a slightly better OL they should improve running the ball if they can lineup and run the ball at will they catch the defence in two minds about how they cover them and that will leave the door open that wasnt there last year they were too predictable and defences lap that up. its the constant lineup/strategy changes in new england that makes them hard to beat not the personell so much
with all the weapons this team has now engram,marshall a more seasoned shepard,adams and perkins,vereen back,adding gallman,hopefully lacrosse can add to the options at TE as well there is alot to be optimistic about
the defence too can improve if tomlinson gives them more push inside,goodson and thompson can add to an already rock solid defence but CB is still a worry you are an injury or 4 WR set away from trouble if the back end of the secondry needs to play too often but with the cap its just a fact of life in todays game you cant do everything you would like
And I do believe Mac throttled the offense, when they had the lead, and he expected the defense to protect that lead...
How can you factually say so when they have not played a game this upcoming season yet..by practice, quotes, etc? Huh
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reasons already cited but what's even more confounding is the huge drop off from 2015.
I don't think it's that confounding.
It was actually the defense that had the biggest impact on the offense.
Confounding in the sense that it was unexpected. I dont recall anyone hear saying the O would regress from 2015 let alone that much.
Not to mention having OBJ. Can anyone name a 49ers receiver from last year?
Giants ran the ball down the stretch of SOME games last year more than they did in 2014-2015. Giants WON games last year more than they did in 14-15. Shepard showed long term staying power in the slot. Eli found ways to win games last year rather than lose games like week 1 dallas 2015. Flowers took baby steps and now has a better off-season under his belt. Hart has another year under his belt.
But if you read BBI and every single newspaper in circulation you'd think the offense took a major steps backward last year. I couldn't disagree more.
2014-2015 was fools gold. A mirage. Last year the offense struggled but I think some, not a lot, but some of it can be attributed to tighter games and tighter game plans, to at least some extent.
The offense will be even better in 2017. Forget 2014-15. That shit period is long behind us.
The TEs weren't bad. They were historically bad.
The RBs weren't bad. They were historically bad.
The 2nd and 4th WRs were bad.
McAdoo is a concern yet the team won as many games in 2016 as it did combined in 2014-2015. That is just a gross exaggeration of play-calling. The same guy that held the offense together all of sudden forgot how to call a game, BUT, he held the entire team together! That's just nonsense. This offense played to its capability last year. It will play to it's capability in 2017.
The playcalling and "McAdoo question" is last on my list of worries. I'm more concerned or curious with McAdoo's overall stamp on the team, long term. And injuries.
That's such a cohesive arguement I think it trumps mine.
With reservations: "leadership" and the ability therein to delegate authority is not about holding on to the clipboard; and he had to give permission to the Party goers to skip the mandated flight (with his teammates) to New York.
It's presumptious to think my opinion matters to anyone but me, but I'll have an open mind this year but if this offense isn't cohesive, varied and effective I'll be the first to condemn him.
Get rid of the damn clipboard....You can't manage a company if you're in charge of the office supply room.
IT won't be as easy for opposing defenses in 2017. I don't even love Vereen but he was the best RB on the team last year. Perkins wasn't ready until November. The RBs should be a lot better. The WRs should be a lot better. The TEs should be a lot better. Eli will be a lot better as a result.
IT won't be as easy for opposing defenses in 2017. I don't even love Vereen but he was the best RB on the team last year. Perkins wasn't ready until November. The RBs should be a lot better. The WRs should be a lot better. The TEs should be a lot better. Eli will be a lot better as a result.
Vereen seems to be a completely forgotten man but I agree with you, I think he's a bigger part of the offense than people realize. He's as good a receiving back as you'll find and we simply didn't have anyone to fill his role when we lost him. He's a great safety valve for Eli and should help improve our 3rd down conversion %.
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As long as the team learns from it and takes the necessary steps to improve, which, to me, it seems they have.
How can you factually say so when they have not played a game this upcoming season yet..by practice, quotes, etc? Huh
I didn't say anything "factually." I said that it seems to me that they've taken the necessary steps to improve.
Why do I say that? For the same reasons that I've said it numerous times in countless posts, and in fact, went on at length about it in this thread.
Does that answer your question? Huh?
But I can't wait for camp to start either.
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Last years offense was wretched. Particularly so when you consider we have one of the league's best offensive players. No aspect of McAdoo's rookie coaching campaign concerns me more than his extraordinarily bad offense. As far as I could see, McAdoo didn't adjust the offense once throughout the entire season. He didn't seem to have any game plans tailored to exploit another team and he didn't seem to make any in-game adjustments. The Giants offense was a completely and historically bad offense where almost every single player regressed from their previous season.
In Bens defense, there was a huge lack of talent at TE and RB. But, still, I saw zero creativity in addressing these obvious deficiencies in skill.
It's too soon to judge McAdoo as a head coach, but he seems to me to be an organization guy. He's good with the public relations and the media, he kept the team focused and together (unlike, say, the Jets). The job doesn't seem to be too big for Ben. But he doesn't really seem to be an Xs and Os guy. Belichick is a notorious and lifelong film guy. I remember how John Fox was written up once as a guy with a motivational quote for every occasion. Parcells was a master motivator and a master manipulator. Not sure what Bens thing will be, but if it's not game planing and play calling he better find someone who can do these things.
What a shame to have wasted that defense last season.
I think this is a complete misread. To my eyes McAdoo milked every possible win out of that team. He played to his strengths... It was actually write like what Belichick would do.
McAdoo is the head coach, not the offensive coordinator. His job is to manage the entire team and he did that masterfully in 2016.
Except he was the OC in e every way that matters. Yes Eli has a ton of felxability but when you are in 11 all time there was only so much he can do. The guy calls the plays and installed the offense. Calling Sully the OC is lip service
McAdoo hasn't shown me much as a play caller. To be fair it's not all his fault w some of last years roster deficiencies but OBJ bailed this team since the day he stepped on the field. What does her have to do w him really?
And since he didn't do anything w the D saying he managed the entire team is a misread imo. Do you think he did one thing to manage due D. Help Spags game plan?? He Soags. Coach then guys. Gotta get my sandwich board ready.
Nice guy. Handled the HC job well. By doing as little as possible. Bill B he ain't.
But I can't wait for camp to start either.
When you don't have a TE who can block worth a damn, and you don't have a legit FB who can block, either, why wouldn't you be excited to bring in a UFA TE whose forte' is his blocking, in addition to a FB who's known for his blocking, too?
With Ellison, it's not "may or may not." He's already a proven blocker. With Smith, whom I believe will win the FB job in camp, it's not how many carries he gets (how many carries did Hedgecock or Hynoski get?), it's how well he paves the way for our RBs, especially in short-yardage and goal-line situations.
But I am concerned about the apparent lack of Xs and Os on the offensive side of the ball last season. Even going back to his work as an O-co, it's hard to tell what kind of difference McAdoo has made on the offense because OBJ came on the scene at the same time as Big Balls Ben. I guess my concern is that Sullivan isn't up to par game planning and breaking down film and I'm not sure McAdoo can help him much as that may not be his strength to begin with and running the entire team doesn't give him the time. Anyway, we shall see.
Now - I didn't want him as OC, didn't want him as HC and am starting to warm up to him, but from my seat he's done very little. I am also concerned that there is a tiff with he and Beckham behind the scenes. Big year for him.